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How much speed can you buy? Tarmac SL7 S-Works vs SL6 Sport
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- Опубліковано 18 сер 2024
- Commentary and testing with @ChrisRiekert.
00:00 Why are we testing
1:53 What are we testing
3:08 How are we testing
7:13 Results: Bike Feel
8:14 Results: Bike Performance
Conclusion: Bikes are fun, buy the one that makes you happy
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7% faster but 600% more expensive :D
if it help u win the race and get the prize, the 600% increase in pricing actually bringing in profit
for us average joe, any bikes is good enough
Law of diminishing returns
@@jasonjohnson9072 law of increasing profits
@@mrmrmaples not necisarily. It takes more research and higher costs to make smaller gains the further you get down the line of technological advancement. The same is true for any area of research. Bikes are no different and of course companies do’n’t do it out of the kindness of their hearts, they want to profit and why shouldn’t they?
The bike manufacturing industry is flooded with great bikes, manufacturers are under constant pressure to make each model better than the last. I’d bet anything that if you put all the costs together for R&D and manufacturing that margins today are a fraction of what they were 20 or 30 years ago.
@@mrmrmaples if you are fast enough to race for any significant amount of money*
during the video i was wondering "what if they have the same wheels?" . Hurry this test! And thank you !
Yes! The wheels should be responsible for a larger difference than the frame.
But after that its the difference also in cockpit, seat post, innertubes etc. If you just want to compare the frames, you might as well take it from the manufacturer's info graphs.
I guess it would't be more than 2 minutes.
@@toxicexplorer1382 Yes and no. Keep in mind, real world, they are still comparing a ~$2500 to a $12000 base bike. It will be interesting to see if they can get an sl6 sport close with a bit of selective upgrade!
😈🥳
Jeff absolutely nailing the "Saturday Dad" look.
👌
Wow this is so much better than all the mainstream media bike 'tests'
🙌🏻thanks!
How lovely is this setting. I love the change you throw in every now and then. You really are improving our viewing experience besides the fact that you feed us with new information. Thanks again for the videos!
Thank you so much!
Thank you!
Having watched NorCal Cycling videos for so long with just Jeff's voiceover, it feels really weird to see his voice coming out of a person on screen.
The dork disk on the SL6 is probably causing most of the difference.
And the tires... How scientific is that?...
@@pedromarques7341 Yah my guess is the tires have the biggest impact, than wheel, than frame. Kinda look like slow good puncture proof tires on them.
Mike wouldn't let them cut it off.
On the SL6: Turbo Pro, 60 TPI, folding bead, BlackBelt protection, 700x26mm. Easy 10w a tire to gain ( combined with latex innertubes )
I came here to make this exact comment. :-)
excellent vid. seems like a ton of work was put into it and it shows
Thank you!
I really liked this video and concept and look forward to your further tests!
When considering a $2500 bike to a $12k bike the next question, what can you do to close that gap with some thoughtful and deliberate upgrades is a really interesting one. Wheels, Carbon aero handlebars, lighter seat; all could be easily added making a ~$4500 sl6 vs a 12k sl7. For those of us spending our own money on bikes, that price difference is still enormous!
Awesome! Pretty astounded by the difference. That 'cheap' Tarmac is no slouch, either. Should've used the same power meter (pedals) though, ideally. If one's reading 2% high and the other one 2% low (all within spec) you already have more than half the difference accounted for. Starting with the wheels, swap component-by component to close in on where that time's lost.
We called that out... The SL7 was SRAM and the SL6 was Shimano... we had to make the call to just send it knowing that it could be a factor. Likewise... we did test multiple days and saw similar results. AND HR run to run was the same.
Yeahhh different power meters is a deal breaker
@@joshuasmith4315 Yea, these guys suck. They didn't even consider that!
Assioma duos ftw, perfect for this situation.
@@MrBJPitt exactly, or even the Garmin Vectors.
Got to nearly the end and was confident much of the difference was due to the wheels. Specialized specs really heavy wheels on their lower end bikes, looking forward to the next video!
When you realize that a 12k priced bike is just fluff, you will go and find real bargains in the market that are the same speed as this one.
I remember watching this video when it first came out and I really enjoyed it. I just watched it again and want to tell you guys you did a really great job. I quit racing and riding at the end of the 2016 season. I started riding again Jan 2020, bought a 2020 Venge Jan 21. I have a 39.5 mile KOM from 2015 when I was super fit. I just rode the Segment on my Venge and was within 5 minutes of my PR with 50 watts less for the 2 hour average. I am confident that if i go hard on the Venge i will best my old PR. Thanks again the video was amazing.
Switching the wheels!! Yes!! Great idea. Can’t wait for the next video to see how it play out. This was very informative, you guys rock. Also great outro music 👍🏻
Yes, but the wheels from SL7 will cost as much as a whole SL6... Right? 😏
One test I’ve never seen (maybe impossible) is sprint testing. In other words, try to quantify how efficient a given frame is at translating pedal force to sprint speed. That would have been more important for Jeff at Snelling rr. I “feel” that my Canyon Ultimate is less efficient in a sprint than my old Tarmac Pro, but have never tried to quantify
I'd love to find a way to quantify this beyond the aero testing i've done on this channel, or marketing claims by manufacturers.
Good point. Would be challenging to prove but, considering the value of the frame it would be interesting to hear their thoughts on this
@@NorCalCycling I guess you could just do sprint repeats, alternating between bikes, and time them. But I would imagine that timing measurement errors could be significant on a 20-30 second sprint unless you got a chip timer or something. And assume you would do it from a rolling start, which is another source of error. Not an easy test. Probably makes most sense to do it on a track...too bad they only allow fixies.
*While I'm watching* "Ye but what about if you change dem rims bru"... Then the ending 😱😲. Love the sit down style filming too, looking forward to part 2!
Change wheels: 1 min gain
Change tires: 1 min gain
Change whole wheelset: equality.
The wheels probably helped a ton too
did you watch till the end?
Having raced for 38 years I can say as you get older comfort becomes your #1 priority!
I agree. I am happy to report that the SL7 absorbs road irregularities substantially better than the SL6. It is downright comfortable. And I am using an SMP Full Carbon saddle with zero padding on the SL7. I have a Selle Italia Flite on the SL6, which has some padding, but the SL7 frame is more compliant.
@@JohnFoxBass Funny, I use that same exact saddle! Cheers!(Selle Italia Flite)
I know you guys said it's a crushing victory for the SL7 but for a casual rider like myself. Whether I finish my ride in 2 hours or 2 hours and 10 mins it doesn't bother me.
These videos really help me not get caught up in the marketing bs. Can't wait for the next one.
Great video! I have an sl6 sport with zipp 404 and I love it.. wheels make a huge diff, can’t wait for the next one!
Are we fast because of our kit? You can just hear them credit cards start to sweat.
Man, you 've added chapters, some transitions and drone footage. More kudos on the improving production, old bean
Superb! Superb! Superb! Loved it. The deep section wheels should close the gap by about 30-45 seconds but that's pretty much it. Can you guys do a comparison with the SL7 and the Allez Sprint kitted with deep section wheels and a decent groupset (Maybe one of your racer buddies could lend you one)? This would be a good comparo for the racer on a budget who's looking to get the best racing bang for the buck. I've been trying to convince my buddies on how good the Allez Sprint is and any data you guys produce would be most welcome. Keep up the great content.
Oh, btw, Jeff, if you're still Zwifting, the new Kickr comes with Axis feet that gives some half-decent lateral movement. This should help you out with the Zwift sprints which you hate. I picked one up last month and it's great.
I own 2 sprints both dics and both 2020 comp pack and 2021. They are fast
That green is the most beautiful green I've ever seen on a bike frame honestly.
Sweet video Jeff. Entertaining, interesting, and that cinematography is epic
what a teaser at the end. YOU GUYS!!
Love it Jeff! The relaxed patio chat theme is awesome, more of this please!
I have been riding the SL3 for about 7 years. Now I have irrefutable evidence that I am not getting slower with age. It is all the bike!
Love your kits!!
I have a SL7 (profile pic) and I am seriously loving it. No complaints at all.
Those golden wheels look 🔥
Chris looks younger in videos than on pictures kinda and Jeff looks so much different on a bike than I have always imagined it:D I think it's the beard:D
Handsome in our own ways.. 🤣
I'll be damned. That is a surprising result. I did not expect that much of a difference! Maybe you could do just one more test, brand new tarmac SL7 vs early 00's steel allez. (that was a joke)
we didn't either!
I’ve been waiting for a review like this... 🙌🏽... I’m sure some are checking their credit card balances right about now... lol
Such a great attention to consistency and detail across the test, and great b roll shots, can't wait for part B.
Are we gonna talk about the fact that Chris Riekert did a Cat 5 salute @1:30?
Good thing it didn't end up in cat5strohy.
I bought a SL7 comp and then added force 1x cranks, force 10-36t cassette, zipp 303s wheels and zipp aero bars and a power mirror seat I feel that its been greatly improved and still way more bike than I need.
Jeff with the cliffhanger - "what if you switch the wheels? .... stay tuned..."
Thank you for helping me rationalize my purchase!
Great vid guys thanks for that!
Thanks! This really helps with my 2010 tarmac.... 😂 but really, I love all this content keep it up 👍
I built myself a budget race bike for under $1000, a cheap alloy rim brake frame with carbon fork and 8-speed Claris R2000 for $600, has a tapered headtube, internal cabling, aero tubing and viper green paint (Merida Scultura)... plus 42 mm mid-deep section alloy rims (1,85 kg) and Conti GP 5000 tires... System weight with pedals is 9.5 kg... not light, but I ride only in the flat and I want to upgrade to 105 R7000 next year and save an additional 600 g (The Claris groupset are then fitted to my winter bike).
You don't have to spend a lot of money to have a modern and fast racing machine.
nice!
Jeff your videos kick ass, I always look forward to seeing a new one! I like Chris too, the both of you play off each other well, keep up the good work :)
I live in Morgan Hill & it’s cool to see you guys riding in my local area!
Great content; was really excited for this video since you announced it. Looking forward to the next one!
I have a $2500 carbon bike and a $9500 carbon bike....the differences in performance are, as you would expect, profound. Love 'em both, but holy shit the Trek is a rocket.
Awesome video! Now I have a scientif way to justify my lack of wins, thank you guys! hahaha
Great video love your channel
waited for it! great review! respect!
Great video guys! Your test was definitely much more accurate and applicable to the real world compared to others I've seen.
lol you jerks with the cliff hanger. What is this, GoT?
lmao!
🤣 We're working on our production value.
same feeling here 🤣
man that sucks 😅
im chilling with my $900 specialized allez ☕️☕️
$619 khs
Me too
Wtf are you guys talking about I started this summer with a 9 year old bike and I did at least 9k km
me too hahaha
Love my 07 allez upgraded to a 12 speed 105 and made that shit cherry!!
This is a great video, Im a Legion and NorCal cycling guy ;). More importantly I had a Specialized Allez Comp and sold it, now determined to grab a better Specialized. This video surely helps!
Just to put it out there, you guys make better videos then GCN. You guys are a lot more natural when it comes to reviewing.
I love your channel so much, watching your vids has inspired me to race crits here in Belgium and to start our own race with friends. Keep up the good content, I'll always be there watching it.
PS : great soundtrack
this is such a well-written prac report
Tire rolling resistance probably accounted for a chunk of that time. It makes a huge difference. Maybe 5 watts per tire?
Just found your channel, and love it! I’ve already watched a dozen of your videos!
I would like to see an SL6 SWorks rim brake VS new SL7 SWorks Disc! 😆😁
Production quality just shooting up to the moon now 😩
LOL loved the cliffhanger! can't wait
Really great production on this one boys! The quality keeps getting better and the content is top-notch!
Great video. Thanks for doing this boys.
For me does not matter what bike, both are a dream
I used to say that Shimano 105 and a carbon frame were the only things I needed to have fun in cycling. But then, I got some paychecks and I sorted out my priorities in life; I have 2 Specialized Venge now and I don't care if you believe it's stupid to be 5-10% faster for 10 times the price!
i am new to youre channel, but boy you sure do have some real good content , thank you..............
the chapter timestamp is amazing, thank you for added that for us
Excited for the next test
$5,000 per minute. Makes sense if you're a professional bike racer and have a sponsor giving you a bike, or if you're rich and $12,000 is pocket change. For the rest of us mere mortals on average incomes, the $2,500 bike is more than enough.
great video thanks guys. keep them coming
Nice vid. Looking forward to the next one!
Pretty stoked about the experimental design.
WOW, this is fantastic video guys!!! IMO, it’s what really matters most in trying to decide. I’ll be buying a bike in the next year and this data really helps my decision making process. Well done.
I love your videos on bikes. You always cover the important issues and never waste our time. Your thought on how much of the difference is down to the wheels was like reading my mind.
For those of you thinking it’s not worth the money difference between a good bike and a super bike, I say it is worth every penny! I just switch from 2020 Bianchi Oltre XR3 Ultegra Disc to Factor Ostro Vam, and wow, there’s no comparison at all. On every level the Ostro is way better. Comfort, handling, speed and aerodynamics. And the Bianchi is a very good bike. Yet the Ostro makes you feel like a James Bond. The way that bike is designed and build is amazing. I rode with the group yesterday among SL7, Emondas, colnago, Scott Foil etc, climbing and sprint they couldn’t keep up.
Cool video - surprised by the result
I agree, this was a great video. The big question I kept asking was to what degree is the delta a result of the frames vs. all the other components (e.g. groupset, seat post, etc.)
Best comparison the data and methods of testing are good enough for me😊👍
That was an excellent comparison! I've always wondered what the difference would be. I'm more of a Trek bike fan, but the test concept is perfect... And yes, I wonder about the next test with better wheels on the underdog!
As the owner of a rim brake SL6 "expert" with ENVE 5.6 tubeless wheels and the Aerofly 2 handlebar, I can tell you it's fast as Hell. I have a bike that's within 1% of an S-Works that cost 2-3 times as much. The trickle down effect is a wonderful thing (so was having ENVE wheels to swap from my old bike to this one).
Awesome test, love this stuff! I'm on the verge of getting a new bike and this helps reinforce the decision to get an 'aero' bike. Thanks! 👍
wow! looking forward to the same wheel test!
Great video! Love this type of podcast format!!!
California is gorgeous. The circuit featured here is in San Martin, just over an hour south of San Francisco. Exquisite Northern California cycling is most certainly not confined to Marin County.
Nice test. There are things you could do to make the test faster and easier to do but it probably wouldn't change the results so if you guys are happy doing the test this way, go for it.
What was margin of error in this test?) Have you done only one run for each bike? Sure, you've done great job to reduce error, but still - how big is influence of uncontrollable things like lines? Margin of error in such experiment can easily be 5% and more, so even 3 runs for each bike will be really helpfull
Masters racing is the future.
I'm a master now for racing, and we were only talking about how the club Champion once said that the racing is faster due to the bikes now. well, its because everyone is almost at the very same level, its not like you can turn up on the most expensive bike if your engine is not up for it.
loved the video. the most serious comparison i’ve seen so far. definitely subscribed to the channel. but really guys? 2lb difference is MUCH lighter in your opinion? a 2.03lb with such a humongous price range is a MUCH lighter bike? c’mon guys! that’s less than a kilo!
ya it does seem ridiculous, but some people are chasing marginal gains and it makes sense for them. I did a video about weight if you want to see more, cheers.
I assume you don't have a lot of knowledge about semiprofessional or professional cycling but basically once that you have trainned for let's say 5 years it's much harder to increase your average power on a cycle. That's when lighter, more aerodynamic cycles come and help you make your faster :)
It’s basically an 11% reduction in weight. Which is yuge
Set up in my garage. Sure comes in handy. Works great
Great video - fascinating stuff.
I was riding a 15 lb Dura Ace Di2 SL6 and felt extremely fast on it. It has rim brakes and C24 wheels. I just started riding a Dura Ace Di2 SL7 and I have shattered multiple Strava PRs on every ride so far. I got 27 PR's in a single 52 mile ride this past weekend. Most significantly, I beat 2 hotly contested KOMs previously held by other people that were in place for several years. Although I was bummed that the SL7 weighs a pound more, the weight difference is more than made up for by the stiffness and aerodynamics. In summary, the SL7 is a rocket.
Love vids like this, real world differences. I bet half of those differences, maybe more were wheels? Time to watch part two. Just discovered this channel and I'm loving it.
The thing is that races are done with groups. You go faster and save energy drafting regardless what kind of bike you have. If anything, the tires and rolling resistance make a big difference assuming your position is good. Only in time trials does the equipment and position become more important than actual wattage.
Thanks, really interesting test. Especially great to see it when it's on local (for me) roads, he-he.
One note: it feels a little odd when you are talking about yourselves, saying "we this" and "we that", while talking to each other. This should be said into the camera.
Great video ! Very well executed !
What a fantastic cliff hangar.
I think how you position yourself in the peloton, how you maneuver on the road, position on the bikes plus rims/tyres, massively outweighs the bike itself. 2012 Chris Froome would win tdf again this year on his “old” 2012 bike, no problem.
Really nice video, thank you !
they really left us on a cliff hanger
great stuff guys.. Thanks