The Problem With Marine VHF Radios
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- Опубліковано 28 лип 2024
- For a boater in distress, VHF radios may be our best option in a boat emergency situation, but for a recreational boater, they are not that easy to use. In this video I cover a few of the major problems with basic handheld marine VHF radios for boating that keep many recreational boaters from having a VHF radio on their boat or using a VHF radio in an emergency.
Many basic handheld VHF boat radios do not offer DSC calling and GPS. Without these features, not only are VHF radios challenging for a novice to use while boating, they are not as useful in an emergency as radios equipped with DSC and GPS that are set up with a MMSI on our boats.
Here's Tim B at Sea UA-cam channel: / timbatsea
Use these links to see or purchase the products mentioned in this video - but also from these links you can browse other options, potential newer models and similar items. As an Amazon Associate I earn a small commission from qualifying purchases.
Purchase a handheld VHF radio with DSC and GPS here: amzn.to/340U3O8
Purchase a fixed mount VHF radio with DSC and GPS here: amzn.to/3Iv7gxk
Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction
01:47 VHF Radios are too hard to use
03:27 VHF Radios are too hard to hear
05:21 Mayday calls can be confusing to do properly
07:24 The rules and requirements of VHF radios are confusing and dated
08:36 Advancing Technology with VHF radios
#vhfradio #handheldvhf #VHFradiowithDSC
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![How to use a Marine VHF RADIO [Capable Cruising Guides]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Y6yn0Bmr748/mqdefault.jpg)
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My opinion: For most recreational boaters, they will use a Marine VHF radio for one purpose: Calling for help. Therefore, when calling for help, the number one most important aspect is your radio signal travelling far enough for another boat or station hearing your transmission. This is where handheld radios are inferior - the antenna that comes with these radios is very short where as with mounted radio you will have an 8 foot antenna on top of your boat. All things being equal, the antenna height can make a significant difference between your transmission being heard or not. If you have the extra dough, spend the money and get a fixed mount with an 8’ antenna.
Exactly so. VHF range is determined by the height of the sending and recieving antennas, so unless you're in a 10' dinghy fishing enclosed waters a fixed radio and decent antenna is far superior... and really should be mandatory.
Yeah that stubby antenna and low power handheld is only good for ~3 miles.
The other aspect of being heard from a distance is power.
The handheld radio is usually no more than 5 watts transmit power.
The mounted radio in this video has 25 watts transmit power.
This, along with a taller antenna will transmit much further than the handheld.
another option is connecting a standard
another option is to attach a boat mounted antenna to the handheld via coax and adapter. You could easily double the range of the radio with a larger antenna, and have the flexibility to remove the radio when done boating for the day.
I have that exact portable (as a back up for the fixed mounted and for crew use during anchoring in windy conditions) but you are completely right there are similarly priced portables with the DSC feature and I wish I knew that when I bought the portable. Great channel by the way lots of common sense stuff
Thanks!!
Loved it, I will recommend my viewers watching this, as a professional guitarist outside my mechanical profession I loved the analogy. thanks Wayne, as a boater over 50 years and a long family boating history I thought you did a great job on this.
Thank you very much!
Thanks for making this video. From personal experience (twice), having a VHF and knowing how to use it may very easily mark the difference between life and death...including recreational boaters who often don't have enough emergency resources often found in commercial and larger vessels. Upon checking with the USCG Auxilliary, it's recommended you state your name in the event your vessel does not have a registered name (as you pointed out for most recreational boaters). GPS enabled radios and DSC help a lot but most folks don't know about it and you made a great point on this!
Exactly
It so easy to block any MAY DAY CALL whith people talking on channel 16. Mate if only people would look online how to operate a VHF Radio it will help others to be safet on the watter mate it a good video mate let's hope people learn from this video maye
Thanks for sharing these good points. I haven't been window shopping for a handheld marine VHF radio in years, so I didn't know about the DSC handhelds either, till I saw this video. Also, I used to have my mobile ham radio setup in my previous vehicle. I had it set up with a nice loud speaker in between the driver's seat and the passenger seat so we could both hear it well. I'd definitely want a loud speaker on a boat.
Please watch online videos how to use a VHF Radio. This will help you alot your not the only one who did not know about the DSC call mate. We all got to start somewhere and it all online these days mate. Play it safe mate
Really good info. I’m used to using handhelds and radios from my aviation background but I didn’t know the details of marine radios. This was very helpful.
Thanks
I'm a sea kayaker who paddles around the islands in the Puget Sound, and I was thinking of getting one of these, but the concerns you express are the sane ones I've had, and I think I'll just keep putting off getting a marine radio, like I've been doing for my last four decades of kayaking. Thanks
All great points. I feel as a boat captain regardless of the size of your boat, you are responsible for knowing how to use all the equipment on your boat and this includes the VHF Radio. I operate both a fixed and handheld GPS VHF radios with DSC as well as a ARC Personal Locator Beacon (satellite PLB) in by Dry Go Bag in the event of a sinking or fire. We spend a lot of time operating in the ocean south of Fire Island NY and I would feel helpless without this equipment in the event something went wrong. As with anything else, its about each boat captains personal responsibility for their vessel and occupants.
I would also add AIS
That was my thought exactly.
Initially bought a Standard Horizon HX210 to go with my Kayaking activity, and was impressed by the build quality, returned it and got the HX890 for the GPS & DSC and I think it's money well spend. For additional safety measures an ACR Electronics Personal Locator Beacon might also be used if radio doesn't get you any help.
As a fellow kayaker I would never go out without a PLB attached to my PFD!
You absolutely have to write down the mayday call on a laminated waterproof sheet. This is for several obvious reasons but mainly for anyone to be able to succesfuly make a call in a distress situation. Keep that laminate instruction sheet close and visible next to your radio. It just might save your life and those onboard.
I just picked up a handheld Marine VHF with AIS receiver, GPS, & DSC and I love it.
That's the way to go!
@@WayneTheBoatGuy Boat=BringOnAnotherThousand
Liked ur video, but the problem with many, not all motor boaters, compared to most sailors, is that they have very little education about the sea. They just get it in and go and when they get into trouble they lack the know-how to get out of it.
Very true
TimB is a great channel. Highly recommended.
Note not all DSC enabled devices have GPS. You'd really want both.
Informative video, thanks Wayne
Good video, you brought up subjects I always question about the VHF.
👍👍
Thanks!
All good points. But, I’m in the camp that all boats should have a Marine radio along with a personal locator beacon attached to their person. Most of the time I hear stories of people lost at sea don’t have or know how to use it. One could save the coast guard phone number in their cell phone. However, all boats should have back up systems. Great video! Thanks and all the best. Jim from Georgia.
Going offshore certainly calls for better gear and preparation than other forms of boating!
It won’t be long before self tracking devices will be common place, I think bush walkers are now hiring them from convenience stores at trail heads. If you break a leg or legging it away from a bushfire, rescue can find you,
Everything you said is true about hearing the marine radio in an open boat but the same goes for your cell phone, and that assumes you have cell coverage.
What are you proposing? Have nothing? Possible two tin cans with a string between them?
What is your better option?
I think the portable one is a good backup. In an event where the boat is sunk, the mounted one would be of no use. Having both is better.
True!
Just a few thoughts:
- I take groups out kayaking near Assateague. I have a VHF radio in my kayak for emergencies, but everyone else has FRS radios. Beats yelling, and FRS radios don’t have the complexity of VHF radios
- the OCMD coast guard station has tall antennas and a 50+ miles range, but on The Bay I’d depend more on commercial shipping for help. It’s also important to know the channels for ship to ship comms, especially in high traffic areas such as the 1000 Islands region, where there are a lot of tour boats.
- as you are now able to communicate with people on shore you can test your VHF radio by putting a Baofeng radio programmed to receive on a marine channel next to a recording device. Go off shore a couple of miles and transmit. Then check out the recording.
- VHF radios are a practical necessity at locks and draw bridges. Some keepers use cell phones, but VHF is better.
Yeah I bring this one with me every time I am out - and it has worked remarkably well.
I just wish they were a little more intuitive for novice boaters.
I would think that VHF radios have a great use for recreational boaters for example in the Chesapeake. I remember distinctly being on my Uncles 24 foot sailboat in a November storm near Annapolis. We sheltered as much as we could, (I was 6) but my job was to watch for the shore buoys with binoculars while my Uncle handled the boat. I remember Him on the radio getting direction from the coast guard. We were in the cabin, but I could tell it was a serious situation. Listening to the radio was hard in that weather. It turned out fine, but learning how to use the radio when you are in water capable of storms is paramount.
That's a scary situation for a young boy! I always have one with me when we're out on the bay. It would be even better to have the type with DSC and GPS so the Coast Guard knows exactly where we are and what type of boat we have.
Having just made my sensible and hopefully helpful to someone post, bear with me while I rant a little. Of all the things you may be required to do as the skipper of a vessel, using the radio is one of the absolute simplest. If someone can't be bothered to be proficient with one, it really makes me question their capabilities on the water.
Worst of all is the attitude of "I don't know how to do it and can't be bothered to learn". I feel that too many people approach boating like it's always going to be fair winds, following seas, and that their vessel will never break down. But when things go south, the do so in a hurry. And if you have to call for assistance, you're potentially putting other people in harms way to bail you out.
A boater safety course is just the very beginning of a proper boating education. If you really want to be a safe and competent boater, I would advise anyone to pursue getting a captain's license. It's also not the end all and be all, but at least you may learn some things you don't know you don't know.
End rant. Stay safe, everyone
For most people overboard that never got found. Having a handheld radio with track clipped to them definitely would have had better ods
In the UK you are not required to have a license to operate a non-commercial vessel, saying that most insurance will want you to or be able to prove enough experience. To operate a VHF you do need a license, except in an emergency, which is a one-day course with a short exam.
I have one fixed mounted with an external speeker (better range and better sound) and one hand held in case I have to leave the boat. I feel that the biggest problem is to get used to all the formalities when making different calls (Mayday, pan-pan, securite, relay...with and without DSC).
I have a cheat sticker to help remind me because I find it confusing as well!
You make an excellent point about using the Portables or HTs on land. I looked at the VHF MARINE channel allocation and they do overlap with AAR channel allocation for the Railroad Industry. My thought would be to write a letter some of these radio manufacturers and petition the FCC to allow or add more channels for recreational users, especially keeping contact with their parties on land without using the traditional maritime radio Telephone.
For the AAR freq, they are on the international freq. You won't be able to hear them if you're on the USA freq. For example, our local AAR freq for the tower is 160.800 mhz on receive side. That's channel 4 international receive. If you put that on channel 4A, which is USAchannel, you won't be able to hear them. My 2 cents.
On some routes, trains have to communicate with the same bridge tenders that the boats do, so it makes sense that they’d have some overlapping channels
Watching your video and two things struck me, one, I have that Standard Horizon and the second thing is the GPS version (Retevis RM40 Marine Radio with GPS and DSC) is the one I was looking at. Have you reviewed the Retevis RM40 Marine Radio with GPS and DSC?
I have not. But having those features is certainly worth the little extra upfront cost!
Everyone I I paddle with (in a community of off-shore sea kayakers) uses a hand-held VHF, and knows about the GPS option although most don't use that. I had not heard of the DSC option and that does sound useful, so I appreciate the information even though I had to wade through 9 minutes of your sales pitch I have to say that every single one of your arguments against a regular handheld VHF is easily countered) before receiving a link to buy one. More information about the different options of a DSC model would have been far more useful. Also, for some of us living a less tony lifestyle, the very real advantages of a DSC model may be outweighed by a price tag that is twice as much as a basic and perfectly adequate hand-held. I have used the may-day protocol once and know at least a few other people who have had to over the years, and it has saved at least one life.
Bottom line: DSC is a great idea. Some kind of communication is an absolute must. But for anyone who can't figure out how to do the may-day protocol, I have to wonder how they can figure out how to operate any vessel safely on open water in the first place. Whether one is operating a 16' kayak (a "speed bump" as many power boaters so quaintly refer to us), or a 60` yacht, why wait for the government to tell you what to do?
Your right around the corner from me, i am Indian river. But also a downside to this handhelds is signal. The signal seems to be very poor even on nice weather days.
Any thoughts on differences in transmitting wattage for a mounted vs handheld? Mounted radios typically put out up to 25 watts, while handhelds usually range 1-5 watts. Any idea how that translates to signal distance and clarity? I would imagine a hand held is fine near shore or in busy boating areas, but a more powerful radio would be preferred when offshore. The flip side is that a handheld can go with you if you need to evacuate the boat.
I know the handhelds do not have nearly the range of fixed mount - and antenna height make differences as well.
Obviously boating in open waters and far from a coast guard station makes a stronger radio/better antenna more important.
The difference is incredible! In Pensacola Bay or Escambia Bay, where you are only a few miles from USCG, you can't always get them on handhelds. But if you have a mounted radio with a lot of antenna on a strong ratchet mount, you can talk to the Coast Guard as far away as Destin or Mobile, sometimes, and you'll be able to get USCG Pensacola anytime. And that's on an 18' fishing boat.
With any VHF radio, the communications distance is based on the height of the Transmitting antenna and the height of the receiving antenna. The higher you put each the further you will be heard. A hand held is only designed for short radio transmissions (battery life is a factor) and the range is usually only several miles. The USCG, bases their VHF commo at or about 25 nm. But they also will have their antennas up between 50 to 100 feet in their air.
The Standard Horizon is 6 watts
VHF propagates by line-of-sight. HOWEVER, it is also affected by “power-aperture” which is the power radiated to the antenna by the transmitter (the radio) AND the antenna’s aperture and construction. Bottom line, more power and more aperture equals more range as long as there’s an antenna in line-of-sight to receive it. With handhelds, you have both low power and a small little antenna with weak aperture. A radio powered by your boat’s 12-volt battery AND with a whip antenna of, say 4-8 feet, you have much greater “power-aperture” and thus transmission strength. Line-of-sight is just one aspect and due to the curvature of the earth (sorry flat-earthers!) it’s a shorter distance than you might think. You could have your large aperture (antenna) folded down and with more power it would still out-transmit a handheld at the same height for a given antenna in line-of-sight. I learned RF wave transmission in high school physics. And for the LOS guy in comments, if a USCG antenna was 100 feet high and your handheld was 5 feet off the surface, LOS would be only 17 miles. My boat’s 4’ whip antenna sits about 10 feet off the surface, so that gives me only 18 miles of LOS. HOWEVER, the USCG usually uses VHF antennas at 800 feet high with really huge antenna apertures (length, efficiency, etc.). Now you’re talking 40+ miles of line-of-sight. 😮
If you are on an un-named vessel and you are giving a may-day, you give your vessel description and location. Many small boats are not named but the naming certainly helps especially if you have your boat radio registered with DSC MMSI registration at which point they will know exactly what type of boat it is and if that radio has an DSC button and GPS this can help with locating your boat. I always had a mounted radio, PLB and a portable waterproof marine radio with me with the later being in my ditch dry bag.
Never had to make a mayday call (knock wood), but I have had to make a couple of Pan, Pan calls. The point about the distress call (along with pretty much all of the others) is very much overblown. All you have to remember about any initial radio call is 4 things - who you're trying to talk to, who you are, where you are, and what you want.
In the case of the distress call, "mayday, mayday, mayday" means you're trying to talk to anyone that can hear you. "Who you are" could include a boat name, but should also have a description of the vessel. "This is a 30', white over blue, bow rider" is way, way more helpful to someone trying to find you than a vessel name. And your state registration number is absolutely worthless. If someone is close enough to read that, just put down the radio and yell at them.
"Where you are" can just be a general description, but a lot of new radios have a built in GPS. Very handy if you want to get a rescuer on top of your position vs within a couple of miles. And "what you want" is simply the nature of your emergency and that you want help.
And, if you made it this far, one last tip. I don't have a catchy rhyme for boating, but in flying they say your priorities in an emergency are to aviate, navigate, then communicate. If you're solo or you don't have someone on board competent enough to make a distress call, don't lose the ship or put it up on the rocks trying to mess around with the radio. If the situation is dire, you can always make that mayday call from your life raft or bobbing around in your PFD.
I always have one as a backup but yeah, I agree 100% with you.
I always have mine as well!
So what’s your alternative?
I carry aVHF radio on my 16 ft Alum v hull boat, I am on Mississippi Gulf coast and boat/fish both fresh water (Pascagoula River) and the MS sound out to barrier islands. I dont go on the water without the VHF or my PFD. You just never can tell what could happen out on the water.
That's being smart and prepared!
so what's th alternative ?
You can get an adapter for most handhelds to attach the VHF antenna that is mounted on the boat and attached to the fixed mount radio.We had to rehearse Distress, Urgency, and Safety calls in boating safety class to get Marine VHF license.The rules and regs are a good idea .As you probably know with the citizen band radio (chicken band) it is utter chaos and people talking over people,etcc. The Marine portion of the VHF band needs to be regulated for obvious reasons. CHEERS from Canadian Westcoast. P.S. The authorities in my area dont object to land based transmissions providing you select low power( less than 5 watts).Captains often comunicate with wife at home,etc.
Hey there! Does Canada require a Marine VHF license for boaters, or only if you're buying a VHF radio?
@@WayneTheBoatGuy License required for Marine VHF in Canada but not compulsory for boater to have VHF. radio. The license is good for life. I have Amateur VHF license too as well as HF. and they also good for life where as USA requires Amateur license be renewed every 10 years.I am not sure on how USA regs for VHF marine work.Safe boating to you!!!
@@WayneTheBoatGuy Canada follows U.S.A. examples on nearly everything!
In 65 years of boating and as a licensed captain, I have made 2 May Day calls. I am also a certified on the water trainer and include VHF protocol during training.
And you call it a may day call..lol
I have an optional speaker next to the dash that works perfectly, Shakespeare 3003.4047 ES-2 5 Watt White Marine Radio External Speaker. No more problems for me, this speaker is loud. I also have the dsc with gps and I added and extended gps antenna for extra security Waterproof GPS Active Antenna 28dB Gain, 3-5VDC, SMA
Nice!
Excellent video! I’m a ham radio operator and getting a marine radio was intimidating. 😅
Thanks for this video
Glad you liked it!
Great info.
My handheld hx300 stop transmitting 6 months after purchase 😢
Dang.
Some fix radio have a speaker on the microphone part so you can put it to your ear in a noisy setting
In an emergency, could you use a waterproof baofeng on 16 for a mayday?
Yes. An emergency means you don't need a license. Additionally, even if it wasn't allowed value your safety more than the possible FCC fine.
While a programmed Baofeng will be capable of sending and transmitting voice on channel 16, it doesn’t do DSC like a proper marine VHF.
All you need to do to call for help with a DSC radio is to press the red Distress button five seconds. Every radio within range will sound an alarm and show your distress call with coordinates. The local marine rescue will assume responsibility for the operation. Other civilian vessels in the area will report to marine rescue that they’re available, and come to your aid if the rescue center so decides.
Keeping an illegal Baofeng stashed away “for emergencies” is actually selfish. You’re expecting everyone else to have a legal radio monitoring the channels so they can hear your mayday, but you can’t be bothered to return the favor.
Wow.... Thanks for this video!!!!!
I understand where you're coming from and all good pointspurchased
responsibility
Most people think they can swim and don't even know how to properly wear a life jacket.
The swimming factor is a great point!
I have to agree with most of what you say, but there a few issues you missed out. First is cost: a new phone cost more money and inconvenience to replace than a hand held vhf radio. My hand held vhf comes with bluetooth and I can hear all calls using my ear buds. If you use a boat, you carry other equipment like lifejackets and flares. (I have a Odeo Flare MK3 LED.) Basically we plan for plan for disaster. But what about others? The coast guard cant watch all the sea, all the time. They rely on boaters who know the local area to report problems. Once a year I have to hit channel 16 to ask for help after spotting a day triper washed out to sea on inflatable or a new boater in trouble. 1/2 submerged sea containers washed over board are an increasing problem. You hit one at speed and you will need repairs or sink. Ships will dump at sea and before that waste hits the beaches, its better to call it in. The idea behind vhf is community. By owning one, you're another pair of eyes out on the water keeping others safe, not just yourself.
Greetings from the West Coast of Scotland, you are spot on with every point, I always try and cover all the bases when on the water and I totally agree that VHF is community. Good luck and good luck.
Getting to the heart of the issue, this video is advice for recreational boaters in the USA, but also kind of a 'plea for help', if you will, about the lack of sensible regulation in the USA.
Which, ironically, also brings me to my biggest gripe in this video (not about the video, *in* the video); at 5:52 you ask "Do you see one of the big problems here?"
Why yes, apparently you're supposed to put on your life jacket *afterwards*. Which is exactly how a car's safety belt works; first you crash, then you put it on :P
Honestly, my only nitpick is about step 3; boat name. Now I've never had a VHF radio or even a walkie-talkie and was wholly unfamiliar with the "how to make a distress call" protocol. But I got it about 70% right; "MAYDAY! MAYDAY! This is [name], [approximate location], [problem], [persons on board]". Why? That's how they do it in the movies, games, and books. But I'll also acknowledge that not everybody has access to all 3 forms of entertainment and even if you have access to one or more there's no guarantee you'd get a maritime story that involves a mayday call (or airplane one, in popular media they use the same mayday call).
However, what are they going to do when you don't know the name of the boat? Ignore your mayday call and just let you sink? The protocol is there to help facilitate the call, not filter out who know the protocol or not.
Also I'm not so certain 'push-to-talk' is as foreign a concept as you make it out to be. Perhaps it's because I do a lot of computer work and am an avid gamer. In both the concept of push-to-talk has been around in Instant Messengers since at least the AOL/ICQ era (1997 I believe) and still an option in MS Teams, Discord, and basically any modern video game with multiplayer. But I'm willing to be completely wrong about this point, I know too much about old tech for my age :P
On top of that all; I live in a country where yes, you *do* need to be certified for VHF radio use (I suspect any European [continent] country with water access). I've even thought of getting a VHF since I want to boat the Wadden Sea (I believe the world's largest intertidal flat wetlands in the world) and maybe go from France or Belgium to England, but as I'm a kayaker I'd get my Sea Kayaking certificate first before the VHF certification. Even if you'd convince me to go back to the USA to kayak, I'd still get certified either where I am now or in the USA first.
Having said all that, I don't particularly disagree. While it'll probably never be an issue for me as a kayaker, the fact that it's difficult to hear is probably a massive drawback. And you wisely stay away from over engineered 'modern solutions' which only increase the points of failures. Instead focusing on VHF with GPS and emergency button, two very sensible additions that don't take away from the radio. So solid points all around.
If the rules haven't changed, maybe think of starting a movement. Talk with the local US Coast Guard. Contact your representatives. Help make the USA less... questionable :P
What's the best, cheapest, waterproof, hand held floating radio? With good daylight visibility and loud enough to hear over engine, wind, waves children crying? Thank you for making this video. So smart. Especially with hurricane season here. Safety third lol
I enjoy your videos but as a retired professional mariner I find it a little disconcerting that some recreational boaters find it just too inconvenient to acquire the knowledge needed to operate a boat. Now I see why there's some interest in licensing by various states.
Thanks, nice video
Ask me anything about hf . Vhf . Uhf system. I have 20 years experience in communication engineering
Portable marine VHFs have a range of 3-5 nautical miles (5 W transmission power). Fixed ones (25 W) can reach to the the horizon (30 nm). So if you can reach the coast guard with your portable VHF at shore you would likely also be in cell phone range. Portable VHFs are for inter- and intraship communication.
You can reach another boat within 5 miles and they can contact the coast guard.
On commercial ships we also have MF and HF radios
Wayne in a way I agree with you and a whole lot of ways I don’t. It is each and everyone’s responsibility to learn the rules, laws, and practices of whatever hobby or lifestyle we choose. I do understand there is a learning curve like when I went from CB to Ham operator but it was my responsibility. Oops did I say that nasty word, my responsibility.
As I said several times in the video, I do have VHF radios, keep them on and understand how to use them - but I see lots of boaters who don't and the steep learning curve, especially for passengers (like if the operator has a heart attack) and that concerns me.
Another important point. If you buy a used boat from someone that is including their already registered DSC info, you need them to release the radio ID to you. Otherwise the radio will send their emergency info like home addresses etc and you will never be able to update to your info.
I would encourage you to look at a PLB or EPRIB (preferably with something called and AIS Transponder in it) instead for the "call for help" purpose. I have never made a full mayday but I have responded to north of 100 maydays. (I was in the auxiliary in Canada and we are now sailing around the med). I will agree with you that most of the time they don't work great for a small recreational boat. The handheld is relatively low power and used with a small antenna either in a cockpit or low down it has a relatively limited range unless you are somewhere with a really well established Coastguard radio net (like the US east coast or the pacific north west.) EPRIBs / PLBs are much more likely to get a signal out regardless of where you are. More importantly they include position and if you register them (Always register them!) the RCC (rescue coordination center) will have your shore contact's phone number. That makes finding you much easier. VHFs (especially handhelds) are nice when you get to the target and need to make contact...
How about an Inreach?
@@misham6547 good idea - Inreach could certainly work if you prefer. The big difference between those two in my eyes comes down to who receives the distress message. Inreach goes to a private group - GEOS - who then coordinate a response. PLBs effectively go to coastguard. The question is often are you somewhere with coastguard? I have used spot (which is like Inreach) canoeing and it is awesome. Also it allows messaging which is a plus.
Older video I know, anyway. I taught my kiddo to use handheld PTT radios by way of using the little FRS walkie talkies when we'd go camping or to playgrounds and parks. It's amazing how fast a kid can pick up a skill when you make it a fun game and much of the basics cross over. I used a label maker and have my boat reg numbers on the back of the handheld. I did get the DSC model with GPS but found out later that since I just have a little 14' tinny it can't be put on the "real" USCG DSC registry but just one from a well known private boating organization that I would have to HOPE the USCG/DNR actually checks, and I'm skeptical about it. I still did the registration though. Also the DSC handheld I bought only allowed the numbers to be entered ONCE on set-up so it kinda defeats the purpose of a portable hand-held VHF if I can't move it from boat to boat, or sell it, dumb design and something to watch for. Overall though, I think having SOME kind of VHF available on board is totally worth it in spite of some of the challenges. Just like my PFD, it might make it easier to find my body and make the insurance claim!
In some ways, you are making this harder than it really is.
In the USA, if you are in coastal waters, the USCG Rescue 21 radio communications system has 100% continuous no-gaps coverage along the entire US coastline.
If you pick up your marine radio, set it to Channel 16 and say something like "Coast Guard - I need help, we are sinking" - that will get the Coast Guard's attention. And, the watchstander at the communications center will take it from there.
The Rescue 21 system lets the Coast Guard triangulate your position down to something like a 1/4 mile square patch of ocean. They send the big friendly orange helicopter straight to that patch of ocean. This works best when your signal is received by two towers in the Rescue 21 system, which is normally the case. If the Coast Guard can only pick you up on one tower, the have a line of position - ie they send the helicopter to fly down that line until they find you.
2 things that weren’t mentioned is when pulling up to a marina for an overnight stay you are supposed to say “marina name” “boats name” “boats type and length” approaching for an overnight stay. And they will give you your slip number or I guess you could just pull up to the fuel dock and walk in. But you say that a VHF is not really needed but in this case it definitely is in Florida we have many draw bridges and let’s say you have a small sailboat or a boat with a second driving station up top and can’t clear it you half to use your VHF to call the bridge but sure if you climb up on the bow and wave your arms a little he might get the idea but still would look pretty dumb lol what you are supposed to say “ bridge name” “boat name” headed northbound or southbound requesting your next opening
Those are great examples of how a VHF is useful. In our area there’s no bridges like that nearby (well one in Annapolis) and we’ve never overnighted with our boat - yet!
@@WayneTheBoatGuy thanks for the reply but we have a boat in similar size to yours but a cuddly cabin 23 foot regal and we enjoy it
@@Blakeneal407 sometimes we really wish we had a cuddy - if we ever overnight, we’ll be staying on land.
@@WayneTheBoatGuy yeah sometimes it’s better sometimes not also great for luggage and stuff when going out for the day it’s out of the way and dry
Need one no matter what size boat on tarpon bend
Fun little Martin ;)
It is!
Ma quando prendi la patente nautica non ti fanno anche un piccolo corso per conseguire la licenza per poter utilizzare la radio vhf marino?
Qui in Italia funziona così e la radio è obbligatoria sé ti allontani più di 6 nm dalla costa.
Fammi sapere se puoi, la cosa mi incuriosisce molto. Bel video, molto interessante 👏
I'd recommend that even if you are a recreational boater that you get an MROP if you don't know how to use VHF. You will then have the required skills and knowledge to use a VHF. Same thing goes to the publisher - if you were to pursue an MROP you would know about DSC and even other types of functionalities on commercial vessels, i.e. GMDSS, TELEX, etc... before you bought your boat.
I have tried so many times to explain to my family how to use a walkie talkie when I am on the roof or crawlspace, :(
I spent 135 hours experience on a jet ski in 2023 and I pass my boat test but I still need to review red and green stay in between. That is the only thing that I know for sure.
You are right you not aloud to play around with a VHF radio on land. Should be some training before you can buy a VHF radio even if the training online it something to learn. VHF Radio are good to have for May day calls or PAN PAN calls. L know alot of people out on the waters thay talking to people what thay was did yesterday This could block a MAY DAY call. It time training needed before someone looser someone else life by blocking a call it happens alot on chanal 16 people think it like a CB Radio. Please read the book you get with the radio. Or look online how to use the VHF Radio. It could be you someone else his blocking your MAY DAY CALL.. Don't think it does not happen it has happened a number of times. Great video mate thank you.
I keep a hand held vhs on board my small craft , in my particular circumstance it works pretty well , not great , but pretty well , it’s useless beyond line of sight . But I can keep the big boys from swamping me , if they have a radio on .
It is a really good idea to have at least a handheld pair of radios
CH 16 is used for all locks
In emergency it is better to have a radio and not need it than need it and not have it
Having a good pair of VHF business band radios that are on MURS and 6 FRS radios that everyone has 1 for on board communications
I strongly recommend that everyone who is going to get on a boat watch videos on how to operate a marine radio
Likewise I urge anyone who is getting on a plane even a commercial plane as a passenger that you watch aviation communication videos and that at least one person in your group is carrying an aviation band two-way radio.
It is not something that you may ever use but in an emergency having one especially one that is a dual band that can do aviation and the VHF band is a really good item to have
Icom was the first radio that I owned and I was really impressed with them and standard before they merged and still today is a very good company and I have owned VHF radios made by them
If you don't know how to use a radio or what frequencies to program in it you can ask online if you don't have someone that you know who can program it for you
Usually everyone knows of someone that is a tech person and they will usually be happy to program in the key frequencies and go over basic operation of the radio
Marine radios make it really easy because they have a channel 16 button and the fact that they have channels versus having to program in a frequency is really nice and the same goes for aviation radios that they have the international distress frequency as a single button that you can press and get the distress frequency to come up without having to program in manually
For everyone on a boat or a plane that is in my group I have the FRS little $10 handheld battery powered radios that we use to talk to each other and they are great for boating and they are awesome for use in airports because they will cover the entire airport even the larger ones and you can each do what you want to like going and getting a bite to eat and not have to worry about missing your flight and more than half the time the flights change gate and having the radios and being able to tell everyone in your group where they need to go so you're not waiting at the gate for everyone to come back to tell them what gate you need to go to they can all be directed to the gate that the plane has moved to without needing to come back to the original gate
Most people don't even think about communications when they're traveling and they just rely on their phones but it takes time to text or call and a lot of times people have their phone on silent or in airport mode and having the ability to just key up and have everyone here you and acknowledge within a few seconds is a great resource
While I get what Wayne is trying to say here are my comments. None of us knew how to drive a boat until we got in to boating. Yes maybe some don;t know how to use a VHF radio. So get one and use it on the water. Hail other boats. Listen to the radio. Over time you will get used to using the radio. This video seems to think people are stupid. Today with cell phones most of us learn to use it just fine. Its better to have one and not need it then to need it not have it.
Best video ever. Good practical safety issues. Design sos for women and children and elderly. Kiss
What is that boink sound? Otherwise great video!
The USA is ridiculously relaxed when it comes to boating safety. One only has to watch that Haulover Inlet videos to see how weak the USAs boating laws are.. Yes you are correct that in Australia your VHF must be registered and you must have a certificate of proficiency. However, 27meg marine radios can be operated by anyone regardless of training. They are very short range and only really good for harbours and short range transmissions.
Call me paranoid, I have a handheld DCS with integrated distress button. I do have 6 watts max output, Cobra claims up to 16 miles but I will only count on 5. In addition I keep my ZOLEO Satellite transponder on board which can transmit emergency via satellite emergency network from anywhere on earth. Along with flares, first aid etc. I don't want to die fishing off the coast or worse yet kill someone. All this in a 19' aluminum fishboat ( which is tied to an MMI ) Thanks for the video
your problem with vhf is not the radio. 🤣
Oh? So you're saying they're intuitive and easy for a novice to use?
@@WayneTheBoatGuy no, that's why they require a licence.
i actually sank 3times (in different boat) and i was stranded 2times.
i wish i had a radio in all those cases.
Yeah they're good have for emergencies - I just wish they were more intuitive for occasional users.
A sailboat owner here. You are right on all accounts except for one: No one forces you to get the education you need, and it certainly is not the government's role to be a nanny. We already have way too many regulations, and way too many uneducated boaters. It behooves one to learn all that pertains to navigation, safety and operation of watercraft and devices. It is also a duty of a good captain to get their crew and passengers familiar with safety equipment, devices and procedures. Great video, well covered topic!
Fellow Sailor here ...my thoughts exactly !!
Apart from the line of sight issue, your hand held is restricted to 5 watts.
Mostly, as I understand it, because sucking more power out of its mounted battery will suck it dry in very short order.
Your mounted VHF marine band radio is restricted to 25 watts.
It should be connected to your house battery or a dedicated radio battery.
The phonetic alphabet is the gold standard but anyone would understand if you were to say c for cat or H for henry. You would get your message across to anyone with the inteligence to be of help to you. Right your boat rego on the dash near your radio or get a lable made up.
I wrote the registration of my boat on my handheld with a white paint pen.
In Aus every VHF marine band radio operator is required to hold a Radio Operators Certificate of Proficiency or be under the supervision of a holder of the ROCP or higher quals. A requirement more often ignored than adhered to.
Most VHF trafic I hear is amature fishermen chatting with each other over the local VMR repeater or at leat untill the radio room operator asks them to go to a simplex chanel to free up the repeater for its intended use.
If your passengers can't be trained to use a push to talk radio you need to tie a life jacket to them and strap them into a chair where they can't harm themselves or others.
And finally, the only alternative you seem to've come up with to a VHF radio is a far more complicated VHF radio.
Also, what's wrong with a Sat Phone?
Some people would whinge if their arse was on fire.
A hand held radio is only a backup radio, it should not be used as your primary radio.
The distance the hand held radio can transmit is limited, even if your only 2 to 3 miles from shore. You might be able to hear the coast guard, but the CG will have a hard time hearing you, as will other boaters near by that can aid in an emergency. Also hand helds have terrible speakers because of their size.
You 100% need a fixed mount VHF onboard at all times with at least a 4 foot antenna, 8 foot is better and mounted it as high as you can safely is the best. Standard Horizon makes great radios at good costs that have GPS and DSC built in.
A VHF is very important imo, especially a fixed mount. I fish the majority of time 10 to 15 miles from shore here in LA and cell service is spotty at best when out there.
If you can’t hear your fixed mount radio, you can go to West Marine and buy an external speaker that has better sound than the speaker in the radio. With the external speaker, you can clearly hear calls better.
Obviously being miles from shore is a very different situation and I wouldn't dream of being out there without a good VHF and fixed antenna. Handheld tends to be my primary radio in my small boats that have no onboard electronics and many recreational boats in my area do not have a VHF - but we're also not far from land at all.
@@WayneTheBoatGuy Wayne thank you for your reply, personally I think VHF radios should be required equipment on all boats regardless of the length. A cellphone can only do so much and if a person drops it in the water, especially if they go overboard, it's going to sink faster than a rock. Of course a VHF without DSC or GPS is about as good as a cellphone, but the difference is everyone on CH.16 can hear and communicate together. Just my 2 cents.
Anyway if you haven't already upgraded your primary radio, since it's been a couple years, check out the Standard Horizon HX890. This is a very good radio at a good price if you decide to upgrade.
Keep up the great videos, enjoy watching them !
You are legally obligated to monitor channel 16 if you have a vhf radio.
Sorry if you can't use one of these you shouldn't have a boat.
I have not heard of it being a “legal” requirement. I know it’s good protocol and etiquette. I encounter lots of boats and boaters who do not have a VHF radio or do not turn theirs on.
@@WayneTheBoatGuy Nope, it is a requirement. Great video though; plenty of good points to think about.
I wish channel 16 had a repeater on it so that I could listen to everything on it
I taught marine radio in Canada for 15 years and I had a collection of thoughts for my students. Specifically, have your vessel name and registration #, taped to the dashboard. Phonetic alphabet is also within arm's reach and should be regularly tested with your boating guests. Children get the hang of it very quickly and will challenge the adults.
Naming your boat; Thoughtfully I hope.
One recording I heard from USCG was of a boat called "Going Down". He had begun to take on water and put out a mayday call; MAYDAY, MAYDAY, MAYDAY! Going Down, Going Down, Going Down! My location is east of a small island. How is the coast guard going to work with that? Fortunately, the coast guard can triangulate the location but that can take precious time.
Another time, I personally heard a girl's frantic call while sailing singlehanded, and not knowing her location, she was giving out her Lat and Long coordinates, but that took time for people to find a chart that was of that specific area. Fortunately a towboat tied up at a wharf was familiar with the surrounding area and put out a call before Canadian Coast Guard could reply, and just said "She is off of Point Grey!" That resolved much of the concern for boaters who did not know how far they were from the incident. Anything more that 15 minutes away, by your vessel is a standby situation. I hope there was someone closer.
Did you teach M? MC? Both?
@@shaun1040 I am not familiar with M or MC. Is this an American designation.? In Canada, we have the ROC-M Restricted Operator's Certificate - Marine and is meant for recreational boaters. It is the basic certificate and then there are other levels, for tour boats, guide boats and then commercial boats etc.
@@SuperJellicoe yea that’s what I meant aha. ROC - M or ROC - MC
@@shaun1040 The second instance that I reported was a situation of no lifting off of the transmit button! She was being swamped because of a fouled main sheet, and as she was heeled over and taking on more water, she just tightened up on her grip of the radio and ergo, held down on the transmit button. Fear is seldom overcome. training helps but in a serious situation, we have that tendency to fall back to basics unless we have rigorous retraining.
@SuperJellicoe "she just tightened up on her grip of the radio and ergo, held down on the transmit button" - that's one of the shortcomings that I see with VHF radios, even with people who sort of know how to use one.
I don’t focus on the legal requirements, or convenience - I focus on surviving credible contingency events. Sometimes that means learning to ‘play guitar’ 🤷♂️
Put a PA public Address speaker pointed at your face that plugs into your radio. Then just describe your boat like a COP would . Ex. “ 30’ foot white and blue cabin cruiser with smoke bellowing out. “
I would suggest that you take a boating course!!!
Well, the ways the laws are written you are not on a "compulsory equipped ship". Which means you can set sail with no communications or safety equipment at all . I do not recommend that. Taking the safe boating course is everyone's best bet. I don't recommend a HT (handy talky) for the principal radio of any boat. Go to a 25 watt with a 6db gain VHF antenna and put it as high as possible. VHF communications is known as line of site communications, so the higher the transmitting antenna and the receiving antenna the further you talk (no skip). If your ambiant noise is high, then install an external speaker for audio amplification.
The HT is really only designed for short range commo. Technically it is not recommended as a primary source for emergency communications, unless you are in the water and a helicopter is flying around.
The DSC (Digital Select Call) function is new, but effective. ALL USCG stations monitor Channel 70 for DSC distress. It is much more efficient than a voice MAYDAY (which is still acceptable). A DSC distress will have your MMSI number (registered to your boat only) so they will know exactly who you are and it is also interfaced to your GPS for positioning. But don't play around with it.
The most important feature which was only discussed briefly in your presentation is, Channel 16 (voice MAYDAY) or Channel 70/DSC, will put you in direct contact with the USCG, to their radio room. They are trained to respond immediately. You missed that point.
The flaw with ever considering using a cell phone range is, most cell towers phase their antennas towards land where the preponderance of their traffic is located. So, while underway you will run out of cell phone range real quick even if you can see land a few miles away. However, the next problem is, yes you can call the USCG but who exactly will you be speaking to? You could be talking to the outboard motor repair division. They would then most probably tell you to call another number. Then that number could still not be the radio room. A MAYDAY by definition is: "immanent loss of life is probable". So, you could be on fire, sinking and have multiple serious injuries on board. You do not have the time to keep calling numbers to try and get to the right area (radio room). Don't even think of 911. That system is based on land emergencies.
So, yes all vessels no matter the size should have a marine VHF radio on board with at least on responsible party available if needed.
This might be relevant in the US but not anywhere else. In the UK and most of the rest of the world you need to take an exam and have a licence to have one. In most of europe it is a legal requirment to have a vhf hence pretty nearly everyone has training in using it. Every sailing boat ive had and been on has a single sheet pinned up by the radio with call sign and what to say and buttons to press in an emergency. DSC gives the coastgaurd and rnli your position instantly. Ive had to make a pan pan call and mayday relay. The rules work. Maybe things are different in the US with loads of numpty boaters.
Yes. We only have requirements for larger boats and commercial boats. I’m sure it’s very different in different areas, like off shore boaters are probably much better prepared than lake boaters.
@@WayneTheBoatGuy one good thing about the portables is that, over here anyway, they are limited to 5 watts and obviously being hand held with line of sight range only have an effective range of a couple of miles. That means if sailing in convoy you can have near private conversations without cluttering up the airwaves
And, with most recreational boaters using waterways such as lakes, rivers, etc. where there is no USCG, having a VHF is like having an extra brick in your tackle box. Just one more item to sink with the ship.
Having a reliable cell phone with the numbers for TowBoatUS, local marinas, etc. is much more valuable in this boaters' opinion. Plus, that cell phone likely already has GPS. Spend the learning curve getting to know how to extract Lat/Long coordinates so you can give them to the 911 operator. Not everybody knows how to use a VHF but I bet most armatures can figure out how to dial 911 if you're bailing out the stern. What? You say you don't know how to dial 911 because you can't find the 11 button? Can't help you with that one bro...here's your sign.
Yeah - I feel pretty confident most passengers would be able to at least get a 911 call started, and in our area, there's a few landmarks I could shout out to them if they don't know how to figure lat/long.
Have to disagree. Around here there are plenty of lakes where you're out of cell range, and having a VHF radio on the boat would be the only way to call for assistance from the other boaters in the area. USCG is not the only source of assistance on the water.
@@jostafew Do you know if most of the other boaters have VHF? If it is common knowledge that they do, then you have that network that can be relied upon.
I would disagree with that statement, first off Boat US and Sea Tow monitor channel 16 so you more then likely would get to them quicker then messing with a phone. Also in the absence of the USCG, there are other agencies who monitor that channel as well as every other boater who has a VHF radio and in all likelihood would get to you well before any agency would. I am more of a bay and ocean boater so we have the US Coast Guard as well as Police agencies monitoring but I know when my outboard failed and I was drifting towards a rough inlet to the ocean, after dropping anchor and stopping the drift, Boat US got back to me inside of a minute on the VHF radio seeking my location and arrived shortly after even though I was contracted with Sea Tow at the time, they came just to check to ensure there was nothing seriously wrong.
That little VHF radio is really just for calling the launch.
It's really not that hard to push the button and call for help. You don't HAVE to "follow the rules." Just push the button and tell people where you are and that you need help. Nobody is going to arrest you for making a mayday call that didn't perfectly adhere to the rules! Sheeesh.
Man..This is so common sense I really do not think that anyone who has used a radio "a couple of times"...then they are idiots so do not take them out and frankly I can not imagine anyone who has "used it a couple of times" could not do it.
yes 12 miles from sheboygan 2021, fire
Wayne I came across this video by accident. I am a professional mariner. I am friends with Tim B. However I don't see him around the harbor since his move south. I disagree with you on a few points. DSC radios are a waste of time and money. As a mariner for 36 years on and off, I have never made a DSC call other than screwing around with it. The simpler the radio is the better. All of those silly features like scan, dual watch are all marketing nonsense. You want a radio that you can turn on, select a channel and make your call. It does not take much listening time to get a grasp of the "language" we use out there. When I steer my tug, I am aware that recreational vessels may not have a VHF or not know how to use them properly. That's why I never try and call them, unless it's an emergency. I have received calls from recreational vessels, which I appreciate, especially when they make passing arrangements with me, most of the time it's not necessary, but in some tight spots it's helpful.
Some tips on VHF in no particular order. The fixed mount radios with a good antenna work better and is the minimum you should consider if you are more than a mile offshore. On a fixed mount the mayday button can be a good feature but it's limited. If you push that button in range of a Coast Guard Stations antenna, they simply make an announcement. They do not plot coordinates and come out and get you. When you call a USCG station, you will generally be talking to a watchstander who has 3-6 months in the USCG, it will require a few go arounds to get the "officer of the day's" attention to get any meaningful help. The watchstander will ask the normal questions, name of boat. persons on board, position, description, nature of emergency, etc. You should have these answers handy.
Pro tips get a Seatow or Boat US membership and keep it paid up. If you are in a place like New York City or other large city, call 911 on your cell and report your emergency, you are more likely to get meaningful help, especially if you have a medical emergency. Buy some charts and know where you are. Stay out of the way of commercial traffic, do NOT cross my bow, watch out for my swing and a tow behind me.
Handhelds are way too underpowered to actually provide safety on open sea, you'll get approx. 5km on a good day, you'll need a 25W fixed VHF with a good antenna which is mounted as high as possible AND vertical =V E R T I C A L= not laying down or half way down to look cool (or something), as often seen on small powerboats.
Also be aware that VHF is LOS (Line of Sight) radio waves and doesn't normally reach beyond the horizont, to extend that reach both transmitter and receiver will benefit for a high mounting antenna.
Secondly, even with a fixed radio, you should test it regulary, many things can go wrong in marine environments - so test it.
If you go further out than 20nm you'll probably be out of reach of land based stations, since most lesiure boaters neither have LRC certificate nor MF/HF radios, you'll need a PLB and/or sat com. device like Garmin InReach or spot.
Yes DSC is a must today :)
If I was in open sea, I would certainly make sure I had the right equipment. Open sea is a very different situation than the weekend river and bay boating that so many people do in my area.
You only have to be within distance of another boat. They can call for help
Try using handhelds around a helicopter. Unless you have dedicated noise canceling headsets, good luck with that! :)
It you and your family you are putting at risk in a boat. Irrespective of what is required, having a VHF radio and training on its use it an obvious opportunity for greater safety. Only fools would deny that.
At the helm, it is easy to have a label / small sign with your boat's name and hull ID printed in the phonetic alphabet so that it can be read in a panicked situation.
In the UK, the VHF radio is unlicensed, but the operator must have passed a training course (online course, in-person exam).
VHF radios are only good for about 20 miles. For those of us who go far out (100 miles) for tuna use Ham radio. That goes around the world, but there is A LOT of things to know and licenses to have for that. There are NO casual users on that equipment.
Yeah - that's real and serious boating - with a whole different level of equipment.
Just hook up an external speaker with a built-in amp....
100% right
They make add on external speakers they are so loud you can hear it just fine even on a cigarette boat with open exhaust running 90 Kts. I agree the speakers on fixed mount radios are terrible. I disagree with VHF radios being confusing and hard to use. I am a commercial guy but also a recreational boater in my time off, but I don’t see how anyone can’t learn how to use a radio in a few minutes it’s not rocket science.
One of my other jobs uses 'push to talk' radios and there are many people who have a really hard time trying to operate them. For some people, the only time they might ever encounter a 'push to talk' radio (like a marine VHF) might be on a boat and if they aren't operating the radio, they're getting no practice.
@@WayneTheBoatGuy Wow and I thought I had stupid people working for me! I don’t understand how one would need “practice” to use a radio it’s about as simple as it gets key the mic and talk? I don’t understand what the problem is if someone is so stupid they can’t figure it out in 5 seconds or less they probably can’t manage to tie there own shoes.
Pretty weak argument, but your hit the nail on the head. Weak regulatory requirements in the land of the free ....