I did a lot of research and just pulled the trigger on a Pro 500. Videos like these really helped me make an informed decision and I was happy to purchase from Whole Latte Love. Keep up the good work!
Hi Josh, Thanks for the comment and we are happy to have you as a customer! If not aware, check out our support wiki for the Pro 500: wiki.wholelattelove.com/Profitec_Pro_500_PID More videos, tech info, use tips, maintenance and more. Curious what grinder you'll be using with your new Pro 500? Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage I bought a Niche Zero several months ago on the expectation that I'd get an espresso machine soon, but I've been using it for pour overs in the mean time. It's been rock solid and the reviews were all great, but I haven't used it for espresso yet.
Another great video! That beatiful engineering really shows when the cover is off. It must certainly generate a lot of sales. Todd is just perfect as he talks us thru the machine. I consider viewing these videos as taking an expert class on espresso machines. I no longer feel intimidated by all the complexity but I'm really having a difficult time deciding to buy what I want or just what I need.
Hi Rick, Thanks for the comment! Todd knows a lot about these machine. He's probably been inside and worked on more than anyone in the US. He was also instrumental in the design of the Expobar Brewtus PID dual boiler machine and it's unique heat-exchnage system which feeds the brew boiler for incredibly stable brew temps.
Playing around with my Profitec Pro 500 PID Espresso Machine always trying to get the perfect shot. experimenting with 14-18g of coffee. trying to adjust temps for shots too. Can you do a deeper dive into getting the perfect espresso shot on the Profitec Pro 500 PID Espresso Machine? Thanks
Hi Eric, The process to improving espresso is similar regardless of the machine. I'll link a video below which is all about fixing extractions. Particular to the 500: If the machine has been on and idle for an extended period brew temps may creep up. This depends a bit on ambient temperatures and variables like keeping your PF in the group when the machine is idle. Suggest checking temps with a quick flush before an extraction. If flow from the group is turbulent at start of flush then flush a few more seconds until flow smooths out and then do the extraction. Here's that video: ua-cam.com/video/30F1nIF1-v8/v-deo.html Hope that helps! Marc
Thanks for the in depth guide. I'm trying to decide between this machine and the ECM Technika Profi iv (rotary) which are priced about the same in my country. Personally, I think the ECM is better looking and I know they share a lot of similarities although it seems like the Profitec may have some better components (valves etc?) Considering you guys have had so much hands on experience with both machines, which machine do you prefer?
Mathew Ferraro Hi Mathew, The machines are very similar! You mention the one big difference in the machines - the valves. We really like the valves on the PPro500. The ECM has the lever style valves with momentary on when pushed in one direction and constant on in the other. That can be nice if you like that. The 500 has turn the knob valves. Lever or knob is personal preference. But the 500's spring loaded valves are incredibly robust - true commercial quality! To answer your question, we lean towards the Profitec - as Todd mentioned in the video it's his favorite HX vibration pump machine. Here's a link to side by side comparison of specs that should help: www.wholelattelove.com/product_comparisons/show?products[]=ecm-technika-iv-profi-switchable-espresso-machine&products[]=profitec-pro-500-espresso-machine&products[]=ecm-technika-iv-espresso-machine
All are very well built machines. For long term durability the 700 uses a commercial grade rotary pump which very long term is more reliable than vibration pumps in the other machines. All are very easy to repair. Most important is treating water used in the machine to provide a proper mineral level. You want enough minerals to prevent over-extraction and support flavor but control the level to prevent scale build up internally which is the number one cause of machine problems. We have solutions for doing that look for BWT water filtration and treatment products. Marc
I'm a new owner of a Profitec 500 PID purchased from WLL. Is the machine ready to use as soon as the PID shows the temperature for which it has been set?
Hi Jack, Thanks for the question and your patronage! It can be used once it's up to temperature but best practice is to allow about 20 minutes for the mass of the E61 group to warm up for full temperature stability. While the machine is warming up keep the portafilter locked loosely into the group so it warms up as well. Marc
@@WholelattelovepageMarc, I have another question for you. After a week of use I followed Profitec's instructions to backflush the machine (they suggest backflushing every week with a cleaner; I used Cafiza). Then they state that cleaning too often with a cleaner can cause damage by degreasing moving parts and that one should backflush without cleaner from time to time. I make coffee twice daily with an occasional 3 times a day. I would like advice on how often to backflush with a cleaner.
@@jackklarfeld7726 Hi, How often you back flush with cleaner depends on how much use the machine is getting. Personally, I back flush with Cafiza every 50-60 extractions. Overdoing with the cleaner will remove grease from moving parts within the group. At your use level use a cleaner every 2.5 - 3 weeks. You can back flush without a cleaner as often as you like. Some do that everyday. I tend to do it every 2-3 days. Coffee oils naturally coat some internal components and that's desirable to some extent. Water only back flushing generally does not remove those oils which provide some lubrication. The first sign of using a cleaner too much is squeaking sounds when you operate the E61 lever. It's not going to damage anything unless you let it go for a very long time. We have this video on E61 group maintenance which includes a full tear down (not as bad as it sounds!) and lubrication: ua-cam.com/video/ELIwD40tsrs/v-deo.html Marc
+binary132 Hi, Sharp eye and yes it is. Most all machines like this will continue to indicate final brew pressure for a bit after brewing. Raising lever again will zero the gauge.
Hi NM, Thanks for the question. Most steaming power in the 600 and 700 at near 2 bar of pressure avialable. 500 is an HX boiler machine so turning up boiler temp for more steam will increase brew temp. 600 and 700 are dual boiler machines so turning up temp in steam boiler has no effect on brew temps. All machines are capable of producing the same espresso quality. Getting there comes down to technique. It's a little easier as you move up the line with higher level of temperature stabilty due to boiler type and size. 500 and 600 use vibration pumps. 700 uses a quieter rotary pump with a higher natural flow rate of 11g/s. Vib pumps put out ~8g/s. Hope that helps! Marc
Hi MR, Thanks for the question. The machines are very similar. In our testing both produce very accurate brew temps without the need to flush prior to pulling a shot. Both use the true boiler temp on hidden PID so you will use a chart to cross reference and set your brew temp. It depends what you like, but personally I think the Mozzafiato gets the edge in external styling - it's a sharp looking machine. On the functional side I prefer the large sprung valves for steam and water on the Pro 500. Rocket's boiler is copper with brass end plates. Pro 500 has a stainless steel boiler that's slightly larger than the Rocket's. Inside a slight edge to the Pro 500 for straightforward and reliable design. Hope that helps! Marc
So I have a question. I bought my pro 500 in December of 2017 just before the PID became available. All the videos I see when running the machine with the portafilter removed have a shower head look when the water drips from the brew group. My machine has a single steady stream down the middle as opposed to multiple individual streams around the shower screen. I have descaled and backflushed it multiple times since receiving it. Is there an issue with my brew group or is a steady stream down the middle okay?
Hi Alex, I think a steady stream is okay unless there is visible damage or clogging of the screen. Clogging is unlikely given you've been backflushing. When actually brewing the pressure will build up and water should distribute evenly through the coffee puck.
Whole Latte Love thanks for the reply. I did pull the screen down this afternoon and it was very clean. So I’m assuming its okay. The different stream was just kind of weird I thought. I didn’t remove the center brass screw area above it though.
Hi AA, The Pro 500 has PID temperature control and better steam and hot water valves. Appartamento is not a PID machine. So yes I believe the Profitec Pro 500 PID is a better option. Also available with flow control of the E61 Group: www.wholelattelove.com/products/profitec-pro-500-pid-espresso-machine-with-flow-control Marc
Hi Joshua, Here a link you'll want to bookmark: wiki.wholelattelove.com/Profitec_Pro_500#Descaling It's for our Profitec Pro 500 Support Wiki. This link will take you directly to the descaling section which has a video showing the descaling process for machines with heat-exchange boilers like your 500. Lots of other good info there for care and maintenance of you machine. Options for water filtering include these in tank anti-scale pads: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-bestsave-m-anti-scale-filter Descaling should be done every 3-4 months but more frequently depending on water hardness and level of use.
Hi! thank you for your videos guys! They are very helpful!!! But here is another question: in this video on 6:35 you are talking about adjusting pressure. But in my version of Pro 500 there is no such device but right above the gicar box there is a small state relay with no adjustment at all. On the other hand right at the bottom of the machine closer to the front side there is a knob that looks like can be turned and as i can see from the inside there is power cable attached to it. Please advice on how to find and adjust pressure on this version of pro 500. thank you
so why would someone buy this pro 500 over a db pro 300 other than looks? is it maybe cuz it will make a better shot or better steam? the pro 700 is beautiful but to mucb machine for someone like me that makes 1 or 2 lattes at 4 to 6 ounces of milk each. but am debating on the pro 300 and pro 500 any and all info would be appreciated. thanx
Hi Jesus, See below for a link to a side by side spec comparison. The 500 is currently ~$50 more than the 300. What the 500 has over the 300: More steam power with the bigger boiler, E61 thermo-siphon brew group, more detailed case work, higher level components like the massive sprung valves for steam and hot water, quick brew temperature surfing by adjusting time of flush timing. What the 300 has over the 500: Dual boiler system with PID control for consistent brew temps, compact size. Personally, I prefer the 500 for better steaming performance, E61 group and overall higher level of components. Spec comparison: www.wholelattelove.com/product_comparisons/show?products%5B%5D=profitec-pro-500-espresso-machine&products%5B%5D=profitec-pro-300-dual-boiler-espresso-machine
Thank you so much for this response! I couldn't find a definitive suggestion anywhere. After researching for countless hours, i'm pretty much down to the Pro 500 and the Rocket Appartamento. Between these two, which would you recommend? I'm coming from a PID Silvia and would like to upgrade. Thanks!
I would check size/space available, capacities of reservoir and boiler, insulation of boiler, and depth of engineerieng. You must expect an entry machine to be built to a price point. The essentials would be there, e. g. E61 brew group, but you have to decide if extra features or component quality are worth the extra to you. Don't assume that because the machines look the same in a range, that they all use the same bits inside. That's one reason I like the WLL videos. They go into machines in depth. I started off looking at the Rocket Apartamento, and by the time I had finished researching I ended up deciding on an ECM Synchronika! Saving hard atm, but I always say buy cheap, buy twice.
Hi Mark, I wonder why is it a big deal to keep emphasising of having copper? How expensive is copper? Considering the cost why not having double boiler? Wouldn't it better to buy a commercial one which should be much more solid if one is paying £1400+ plus for this machine? Doesn't seem to me it cost more than a hundred or so to make one! Then dear retail price! Any comment please. Nice video. I really enjoy it. I may have one one day. Thanks, H
Hi Hamid, Not entirely certain what you are asking but I'll give it my best! The Pro 500 uses a stainless steel boiler. Personally I have no preference for stainless or copper boilers. Copper was the traditionally used material until stainless steel manufacturing became cost competitive. IMO there's zero difference in finished espresso with regards to boiler material. Marc
I have a question between two different models. I know they are completely different but I'm looking for one that is going to be highly dependable over the years. I'm down to two models: the Profitec Pro 500 and the ECM Elektronika II Profi. Out of those two machines, which one will have the least amount of problems over the years? Thank you so much for your help.
Hi David, If you've seen our videos, you know we love the build quality and design of both Profitec and ECM machines. Overall, the Pro 500 (now w/PID!) is the simpler of the 2 machines. The electronic controls on the Profi add an unlikely yet potential trouble spot. I prefer the knob operated valves on the Pro 500. The lever valves on the Profi are sprung like the valves on the 500 but I feel the 500 valves are more robust and less likely to have problems long term. IMO unless you really want the push button control of the Profi the Pro 500 is easier to use day to day. The PID gives solid, no guess work involved brew temps. On the Profi you will need to do a short flush before brewing in most cases. However, I do appreciate a plumbed in machine. So nice to never think about filling a reservoir. Beyond that the Profi has a rotary pump and a more refined exterior finish. I hope that helps. If you have more questions I'm happy to answer. Marc
Whole Latte Love Marc, thank you so much for the in depth response. You helped me tremendously! I will be ordering from you in the next several days. Thanks again.
Have you guys ever tried using VST filter baskets with this machine? Also, have you noticed any difference in your shots depending on which tamper you use? I have this machine and a 58mm Espro calibrated tamper. But there's always extra coffee on the walls of the basket after tamping. Lastly, have you tried the Pullman Big Step tamper and if so, did it make any difference in the quality of your shots? Thanks!
Hi Brett, We've only ever used the stock baskets. I mostly use the Espro Calibrated Convex tamper myself. Personally I prefer a tamper with a hair of play over a tight fit - but do check your pucks for signs of channeling at the edge. Have not tried the Big Step tamper. One thing I have been playing with a lot is much longer pre-infusion. The Pro 500 can do boiler pressure pre-infusion if you position the lever just beyond midpoint but before the pump kicks on. Seems like those longer pre-infusions really help prevent channeling and can bring out different qualities in some coffees - especially medium roasts that are fresh. Here's a video on pre-infusing with E61 groups you may find of interest: ua-cam.com/video/2DPcZD48TxM/v-deo.html
Hi Oscar, a couple of key differences to consider. First (and most important) the Profitec Pro 500 is a handcrafted machine assembled in Italy. The Breville Oracle is factory made in China and better thought of as an appliance - it's not really considered a "machine". The Pro 500 is very user serviceable and one would expect it can run for decades with proper maintenance. The Breville includes many desirable features like dual boiler, PID, grinder, auto frothing to a specific temp, Etc. But it's not a user serviceable appliance. If something goes wrong it most likely has to go to the shop for a repair. And, with all those features there's a lot that can go wrong. Not saying it's prone to problems, many users love their Oracles, but it's a much more complex device. The Breville is easier to use but with the right skill level (and a good grinder) you will produce better espresso and have more frothing control on the Pro 500. Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any more questions. Here's a link to a side by side spec comparison of the Oracle and Pro 500: www.wholelattelove.com/product_comparisons/show?products%5B%5D=breville-bes980xl-the-oracle&products%5B%5D=profitec-pro-500-espresso-machine
Hi! thank you for your videos guys! They are very helpful!!! But here is another question: in this video on @ you are talking about adjusting pressure. But in my version of Pro 500 there is no such device but right above the gicar box there is a small state relay with no adjustment at all. On the other hand right at the bottom of the machine closer to the front side there is a knob that looks like can be turned and as i can see from the inside there is power cable attached to it. Please advice on how to find and adjust pressure on this version of pro 500. thank you
Hi Artem, Thanks for the question. Sounds like your machine uses a different style pressurestat. Look for a copper tube coming off the boiler and going to a device with 2 wires and a flat blade screwdriver adjustment. If in the US, you can contact our Tech Support dept and they can verify from a photo and walk you through the process. Contact them here: www.wholelattelove.com/pages/contact-us
Hi Maddog, IMO ECM is tops in build quality followed by Profitec. Both ECM and Profitec use best available components but where they really shine is in the design/engineering of how those componets work together. Rocket makes a good machine and they have some flair...a certain sexiness if you will and they do focus on the branding. They tend to be a little more complex internally - lacking the elegance of ECM and Profitec machines.
Whole Latte Love thank you for getting back to me in such a quick time. I am in the market for one these machines. I was looking at the ECM line. They look really nice. Plus this profitec. I must say I am really leaning towards That rocket type v Mozzafiato. I just really want a machine to make the best strongest espresso possible. That's the way I like espresso is to really taste that grit in it and to be really dark. Will any of these machines do that task?
Hi, So if you want a strong espresso you might consider a machine which can do a line pressure pre-infusion. With line pressure pre-infusion you can produce "Slayer" style shots. That requires a machine that can be plumbed in and does not have a solenoid valve on the source water connection. The Mozzafiato is not plumbable out of the box. Think you might also do better with a dual boiler PID machine. The Mozzafiato is a heat exchange machine. You will need to do a flush from the group before making each espresso. Don't have to do that with a dual boiler and you will have much more accurate control of brew temp with the dual boiler. Over the years of ownership you will appreciate a plumbed machine. Especially one that can do line pressure pre-infusion. I recommend the Profitec Pro 700: www.wholelattelove.com/profitec-pro-700-dual-boiler-espresso-machine It's a dual boiler, PID machine that's plumbable out of the box and it's within a couple hundred $$ of the Mozzafiato. Another option is the ECM Synchronika. It's nearly identical to the Pro 700 internally. If you'd like to learn more about how line pressure pre-infusion check out this video which demonstrates how it works on the Profitec Pro 700: ua-cam.com/video/2DPcZD48TxM/v-deo.html
Hi Sheldon, The Profitec Pro 500 has been updated since this video was made and now has PID temperature control. So you just set the temp you want. Here's the Pro 500 PID: www.wholelattelove.com/profitec-pro-500-pid-espresso-machine And here's a video review of the updated machine: ua-cam.com/video/9Ps4JfqRPuI/v-deo.html On Pro 500s without PID you manipulate brew temp using a timed flush prior to making an espresso. Marc
thanks for a great video! I am considering to buy one but have a concern that lead could be released from brass fitting/components. There is a proof for it, not about PP500 but portafiler machines in general, here www.bfr.bund.de/en/frequently_asked_questions_about_the_release_of_lead_from_coffee_and_espresso_machines-188868.html. Could you please say something/make a test about the lead released in the coffee of this machine? I think it will be very helpful for others as well.
Hi - Thanks alot for all your great videos. It's really impressive work. I have been researcing the Profitec 500 and in most of the videos the pressurestat is the same. But in "How To Adjust Brew Pressure on a Profitec Pro 500" ua-cam.com/video/uYKDQ3Stb3k/v-deo.html at about 2:54 the pressurestat is another version, the same as in the ECM Technika IV. If possible could you explain which is the standard version? Thanks Dennis
The Pro 500 in the video you linked is the old version. You can see this by checking out the fittings for the wand knobs, they're round, whereas in this video where they have the new version of the Pro 500, they're squared. If that is related to the difference in pressurestats I don't know however but could be! Wholelattelove will have to reply themselves if they know the reason :)
I did a lot of research and just pulled the trigger on a Pro 500. Videos like these really helped me make an informed decision and I was happy to purchase from Whole Latte Love. Keep up the good work!
Hi Josh, Thanks for the comment and we are happy to have you as a customer! If not aware, check out our support wiki for the Pro 500: wiki.wholelattelove.com/Profitec_Pro_500_PID More videos, tech info, use tips, maintenance and more. Curious what grinder you'll be using with your new Pro 500?
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage I bought a Niche Zero several months ago on the expectation that I'd get an espresso machine soon, but I've been using it for pour overs in the mean time. It's been rock solid and the reviews were all great, but I haven't used it for espresso yet.
Another great video! That beatiful engineering really shows when the cover is off. It must certainly generate a lot of sales.
Todd is just perfect as he talks us thru the machine.
I consider viewing these videos as taking an expert class on espresso machines. I no longer feel intimidated by all the complexity but I'm really having a difficult time deciding to buy what I want or just what I need.
Hi Rick, Thanks for the comment! Todd knows a lot about these machine. He's probably been inside and worked on more than anyone in the US. He was also instrumental in the design of the Expobar Brewtus PID dual boiler machine and it's unique heat-exchnage system which feeds the brew boiler for incredibly stable brew temps.
Playing around with my Profitec Pro 500 PID Espresso Machine always trying to get the perfect shot. experimenting with 14-18g of coffee. trying to adjust temps for shots too. Can you do a deeper dive into getting the perfect espresso shot on the Profitec Pro 500 PID Espresso Machine? Thanks
Hi Eric, The process to improving espresso is similar regardless of the machine. I'll link a video below which is all about fixing extractions. Particular to the 500: If the machine has been on and idle for an extended period brew temps may creep up. This depends a bit on ambient temperatures and variables like keeping your PF in the group when the machine is idle. Suggest checking temps with a quick flush before an extraction. If flow from the group is turbulent at start of flush then flush a few more seconds until flow smooths out and then do the extraction. Here's that video: ua-cam.com/video/30F1nIF1-v8/v-deo.html
Hope that helps!
Marc
It would be great if you could make a review on the Profitec pro 300 :-)
+Burgmueller We don't currently carry the PP300. May be getting it soon. If/when we do will do a review.
Thanks for the in depth guide. I'm trying to decide between this machine and the ECM Technika Profi iv (rotary) which are priced about the same in my country. Personally, I think the ECM is better looking and I know they share a lot of similarities although it seems like the Profitec may have some better components (valves etc?)
Considering you guys have had so much hands on experience with both machines, which machine do you prefer?
Mathew Ferraro Hi Mathew, The machines are very similar! You mention the one big difference in the machines - the valves. We really like the valves on the PPro500. The ECM has the lever style valves with momentary on when pushed in one direction and constant on in the other. That can be nice if you like that. The 500 has turn the knob valves. Lever or knob is personal preference. But the 500's spring loaded valves are incredibly robust - true commercial quality! To answer your question, we lean towards the Profitec - as Todd mentioned in the video it's his favorite HX vibration pump machine. Here's a link to side by side comparison of specs that should help:
www.wholelattelove.com/product_comparisons/show?products[]=ecm-technika-iv-profi-switchable-espresso-machine&products[]=profitec-pro-500-espresso-machine&products[]=ecm-technika-iv-espresso-machine
Looking from quality of manufacturing, expected durabiluty and long lifetime , easiest or repair which one could you recommend- 500, 600 or 700?
All are very well built machines. For long term durability the 700 uses a commercial grade rotary pump which very long term is more reliable than vibration pumps in the other machines. All are very easy to repair. Most important is treating water used in the machine to provide a proper mineral level. You want enough minerals to prevent over-extraction and support flavor but control the level to prevent scale build up internally which is the number one cause of machine problems. We have solutions for doing that look for BWT water filtration and treatment products.
Marc
I'm a new owner of a Profitec 500 PID purchased from WLL. Is the machine ready to use as soon as the PID shows the temperature for which it has been set?
Hi Jack, Thanks for the question and your patronage! It can be used once it's up to temperature but best practice is to allow about 20 minutes for the mass of the E61 group to warm up for full temperature stability. While the machine is warming up keep the portafilter locked loosely into the group so it warms up as well.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thank you for the fast response.
@@WholelattelovepageMarc, I have another question for you. After a week of use I followed Profitec's instructions to backflush the machine (they suggest backflushing every week with a cleaner; I used Cafiza). Then they state that cleaning too often with a cleaner can cause damage by degreasing moving parts and that one should backflush without cleaner from time to time. I make coffee twice daily with an occasional 3 times a day. I would like advice on how often to backflush with a cleaner.
@@jackklarfeld7726 Hi, How often you back flush with cleaner depends on how much use the machine is getting. Personally, I back flush with Cafiza every 50-60 extractions. Overdoing with the cleaner will remove grease from moving parts within the group. At your use level use a cleaner every 2.5 - 3 weeks. You can back flush without a cleaner as often as you like. Some do that everyday. I tend to do it every 2-3 days. Coffee oils naturally coat some internal components and that's desirable to some extent. Water only back flushing generally does not remove those oils which provide some lubrication. The first sign of using a cleaner too much is squeaking sounds when you operate the E61 lever. It's not going to damage anything unless you let it go for a very long time. We have this video on E61 group maintenance which includes a full tear down (not as bad as it sounds!) and lubrication: ua-cam.com/video/ELIwD40tsrs/v-deo.html
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thank you very much Marc.
Hi WLL! I noticed the brew pressure gauge stayed at about 9 bars after it stopped brewing. Is that normal?
+binary132 Hi, Sharp eye and yes it is. Most all machines like this will continue to indicate final brew pressure for a bit after brewing. Raising lever again will zero the gauge.
Looking from frotting milk quality - which is best - 500, 600 or 700?
Regarding espresso - may we expect all three produce comparable espresso?
Hi NM, Thanks for the question. Most steaming power in the 600 and 700 at near 2 bar of pressure avialable. 500 is an HX boiler machine so turning up boiler temp for more steam will increase brew temp. 600 and 700 are dual boiler machines so turning up temp in steam boiler has no effect on brew temps. All machines are capable of producing the same espresso quality. Getting there comes down to technique. It's a little easier as you move up the line with higher level of temperature stabilty due to boiler type and size. 500 and 600 use vibration pumps. 700 uses a quieter rotary pump with a higher natural flow rate of 11g/s. Vib pumps put out ~8g/s. Hope that helps!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage
Thank you very much for fast and deep answer!
Have nice day!
NM
Hi WLL, wich one of these two machine would you recommand to buy: Mozzafiato type V or Pro 500 ?? thanks!
Hi MR, Thanks for the question. The machines are very similar. In our testing both produce very accurate brew temps without the need to flush prior to pulling a shot. Both use the true boiler temp on hidden PID so you will use a chart to cross reference and set your brew temp. It depends what you like, but personally I think the Mozzafiato gets the edge in external styling - it's a sharp looking machine. On the functional side I prefer the large sprung valves for steam and water on the Pro 500. Rocket's boiler is copper with brass end plates. Pro 500 has a stainless steel boiler that's slightly larger than the Rocket's. Inside a slight edge to the Pro 500 for straightforward and reliable design. Hope that helps!
Marc
So I have a question. I bought my pro 500 in December of 2017 just before the PID became available. All the videos I see when running the machine with the portafilter removed have a shower head look when the water drips from the brew group. My machine has a single steady stream down the middle as opposed to multiple individual streams around the shower screen. I have descaled and backflushed it multiple times since receiving it. Is there an issue with my brew group or is a steady stream down the middle okay?
Hi Alex, I think a steady stream is okay unless there is visible damage or clogging of the screen. Clogging is unlikely given you've been backflushing. When actually brewing the pressure will build up and water should distribute evenly through the coffee puck.
Whole Latte Love thanks for the reply. I did pull the screen down this afternoon and it was very clean. So I’m assuming its okay. The different stream was just kind of weird I thought. I didn’t remove the center brass screw area above it though.
Would you say it s a better option than the appartamento for the price ?
Hi AA, The Pro 500 has PID temperature control and better steam and hot water valves. Appartamento is not a PID machine. So yes I believe the Profitec Pro 500 PID is a better option. Also available with flow control of the E61 Group: www.wholelattelove.com/products/profitec-pro-500-pid-espresso-machine-with-flow-control
Marc
Do they make water filters for the 500? My water is pretty hard. Can I do the de scaling myself? How often does that need to be done?
Hi Joshua, Here a link you'll want to bookmark: wiki.wholelattelove.com/Profitec_Pro_500#Descaling It's for our Profitec Pro 500 Support Wiki. This link will take you directly to the descaling section which has a video showing the descaling process for machines with heat-exchange boilers like your 500. Lots of other good info there for care and maintenance of you machine. Options for water filtering include these in tank anti-scale pads: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-bestsave-m-anti-scale-filter
Descaling should be done every 3-4 months but more frequently depending on water hardness and level of use.
Hi! thank you for your videos guys! They are very helpful!!! But here is another question: in this video on 6:35 you are talking about adjusting pressure. But in my version of Pro 500 there is no such device but right above the gicar box there is a small state relay with no adjustment at all. On the other hand right at the bottom of the machine closer to the front side there is a knob that looks like can be turned and as i can see from the inside there is power cable attached to it. Please advice on how to find and adjust pressure on this version of pro 500. thank you
so why would someone buy this pro 500 over a db pro 300 other than looks? is it maybe cuz it will make a better shot or better steam? the pro 700 is beautiful but to mucb machine for someone like me that makes 1 or 2 lattes at 4 to 6 ounces of milk each. but am debating on the pro 300 and pro 500 any and all info would be appreciated. thanx
Hi Jesus, See below for a link to a side by side spec comparison. The 500 is currently ~$50 more than the 300. What the 500 has over the 300: More steam power with the bigger boiler, E61 thermo-siphon brew group, more detailed case work, higher level components like the massive sprung valves for steam and hot water, quick brew temperature surfing by adjusting time of flush timing. What the 300 has over the 500: Dual boiler system with PID control for consistent brew temps, compact size. Personally, I prefer the 500 for better steaming performance, E61 group and overall higher level of components.
Spec comparison: www.wholelattelove.com/product_comparisons/show?products%5B%5D=profitec-pro-500-espresso-machine&products%5B%5D=profitec-pro-300-dual-boiler-espresso-machine
Jesus H Medrano link for the comparison is broken.
Thank you so much for this response! I couldn't find a definitive suggestion anywhere. After researching for countless hours, i'm pretty much down to the Pro 500 and the Rocket Appartamento. Between these two, which would you recommend? I'm coming from a PID Silvia and would like to upgrade.
Thanks!
I would check size/space available, capacities of reservoir and boiler, insulation of boiler, and depth of engineerieng. You must expect an entry machine to be built to a price point. The essentials would be there, e. g. E61 brew group, but you have to decide if extra features or component quality are worth the extra to you.
Don't assume that because the machines look the same in a range, that they all use the same bits inside. That's one reason I like the WLL videos. They go into machines in depth.
I started off looking at the Rocket Apartamento, and by the time I had finished researching I ended up deciding on an ECM Synchronika! Saving hard atm, but I always say buy cheap, buy twice.
Hi Mark, I wonder why is it a big deal to keep emphasising of having copper? How expensive is copper? Considering the cost why not having double boiler? Wouldn't it better to buy a commercial one which should be much more solid if one is paying £1400+ plus for this machine? Doesn't seem to me it cost more than a hundred or so to make one! Then dear retail price! Any comment please.
Nice video. I really enjoy it. I may have one one day.
Thanks,
H
Hi Hamid, Not entirely certain what you are asking but I'll give it my best! The Pro 500 uses a stainless steel boiler. Personally I have no preference for stainless or copper boilers. Copper was the traditionally used material until stainless steel manufacturing became cost competitive. IMO there's zero difference in finished espresso with regards to boiler material. Marc
I have a question between two different models. I know they are completely different but I'm looking for one that is going to be highly dependable over the years. I'm down to two models: the Profitec Pro 500 and the ECM Elektronika II Profi. Out of those two machines, which one will have the least amount of problems over the years? Thank you so much for your help.
Hi David, If you've seen our videos, you know we love the build quality and design of both Profitec and ECM machines. Overall, the Pro 500 (now w/PID!) is the simpler of the 2 machines. The electronic controls on the Profi add an unlikely yet potential trouble spot. I prefer the knob operated valves on the Pro 500. The lever valves on the Profi are sprung like the valves on the 500 but I feel the 500 valves are more robust and less likely to have problems long term. IMO unless you really want the push button control of the Profi the Pro 500 is easier to use day to day. The PID gives solid, no guess work involved brew temps. On the Profi you will need to do a short flush before brewing in most cases. However, I do appreciate a plumbed in machine. So nice to never think about filling a reservoir. Beyond that the Profi has a rotary pump and a more refined exterior finish. I hope that helps. If you have more questions I'm happy to answer.
Marc
Whole Latte Love Marc, thank you so much for the in depth response. You helped me tremendously! I will be ordering from you in the next several days. Thanks again.
David S you are welcome! Curious to know which machine you’re going with.
Have you guys ever tried using VST filter baskets with this machine? Also, have you noticed any difference in your shots depending on which tamper you use? I have this machine and a 58mm Espro calibrated tamper. But there's always extra coffee on the walls of the basket after tamping. Lastly, have you tried the Pullman Big Step tamper and if so, did it make any difference in the quality of your shots? Thanks!
Hi Brett, We've only ever used the stock baskets. I mostly use the Espro Calibrated Convex tamper myself. Personally I prefer a tamper with a hair of play over a tight fit - but do check your pucks for signs of channeling at the edge. Have not tried the Big Step tamper. One thing I have been playing with a lot is much longer pre-infusion. The Pro 500 can do boiler pressure pre-infusion if you position the lever just beyond midpoint but before the pump kicks on. Seems like those longer pre-infusions really help prevent channeling and can bring out different qualities in some coffees - especially medium roasts that are fresh. Here's a video on pre-infusing with E61 groups you may find of interest: ua-cam.com/video/2DPcZD48TxM/v-deo.html
Between the bravell oracle and the profitec 500 witch machine is better?
Hi Oscar, a couple of key differences to consider. First (and most important) the Profitec Pro 500 is a handcrafted machine assembled in Italy. The Breville Oracle is factory made in China and better thought of as an appliance - it's not really considered a "machine". The Pro 500 is very user serviceable and one would expect it can run for decades with proper maintenance. The Breville includes many desirable features like dual boiler, PID, grinder, auto frothing to a specific temp, Etc. But it's not a user serviceable appliance. If something goes wrong it most likely has to go to the shop for a repair. And, with all those features there's a lot that can go wrong. Not saying it's prone to problems, many users love their Oracles, but it's a much more complex device. The Breville is easier to use but with the right skill level (and a good grinder) you will produce better espresso and have more frothing control on the Pro 500. Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any more questions. Here's a link to a side by side spec comparison of the Oracle and Pro 500: www.wholelattelove.com/product_comparisons/show?products%5B%5D=breville-bes980xl-the-oracle&products%5B%5D=profitec-pro-500-espresso-machine
Hi! thank you for your videos guys! They are very helpful!!! But here is another question: in this video on @ you are talking about adjusting pressure. But in my version of Pro 500 there is no such device but right above the gicar box there is a small state relay with no adjustment at all. On the other hand right at the bottom of the machine closer to the front side there is a knob that looks like can be turned and as i can see from the inside there is power cable attached to it. Please advice on how to find and adjust pressure on this version of pro 500. thank you
Hi Artem, Thanks for the question. Sounds like your machine uses a different style pressurestat. Look for a copper tube coming off the boiler and going to a device with 2 wires and a flat blade screwdriver adjustment. If in the US, you can contact our Tech Support dept and they can verify from a photo and walk you through the process. Contact them here: www.wholelattelove.com/pages/contact-us
""Not quite the detail of the 700" What detail is that? Show us!
Full video on the Pro 700: ua-cam.com/video/l54y-_Vx_ts/v-deo.html
Which is a better brand profitec, ECM or rocket??
Hi Maddog, IMO ECM is tops in build quality followed by Profitec. Both ECM and Profitec use best available components but where they really shine is in the design/engineering of how those componets work together. Rocket makes a good machine and they have some flair...a certain sexiness if you will and they do focus on the branding. They tend to be a little more complex internally - lacking the elegance of ECM and Profitec machines.
Whole Latte Love thank you for getting back to me in such a quick time. I am in the market for one these machines. I was looking at the ECM line. They look really nice. Plus this profitec. I must say I am really leaning towards That rocket type v Mozzafiato. I just really want a machine to make the best strongest espresso possible. That's the way I like espresso is to really taste that grit in it and to be really dark. Will any of these machines do that task?
Hi, So if you want a strong espresso you might consider a machine which can do a line pressure pre-infusion. With line pressure pre-infusion you can produce "Slayer" style shots. That requires a machine that can be plumbed in and does not have a solenoid valve on the source water connection. The Mozzafiato is not plumbable out of the box. Think you might also do better with a dual boiler PID machine. The Mozzafiato is a heat exchange machine. You will need to do a flush from the group before making each espresso. Don't have to do that with a dual boiler and you will have much more accurate control of brew temp with the dual boiler. Over the years of ownership you will appreciate a plumbed machine. Especially one that can do line pressure pre-infusion. I recommend the Profitec Pro 700: www.wholelattelove.com/profitec-pro-700-dual-boiler-espresso-machine
It's a dual boiler, PID machine that's plumbable out of the box and it's within a couple hundred $$ of the Mozzafiato. Another option is the ECM Synchronika. It's nearly identical to the Pro 700 internally. If you'd like to learn more about how line pressure pre-infusion check out this video which demonstrates how it works on the Profitec Pro 700: ua-cam.com/video/2DPcZD48TxM/v-deo.html
How do you increase the temp from the group head¿
Hi Sheldon, The Profitec Pro 500 has been updated since this video was made and now has PID temperature control. So you just set the temp you want. Here's the Pro 500 PID: www.wholelattelove.com/profitec-pro-500-pid-espresso-machine And here's a video review of the updated machine: ua-cam.com/video/9Ps4JfqRPuI/v-deo.html
On Pro 500s without PID you manipulate brew temp using a timed flush prior to making an espresso.
Marc
thanks for a great video! I am considering to buy one but have a concern that lead could be released from brass fitting/components. There is a proof for it, not about PP500 but portafiler machines in general, here www.bfr.bund.de/en/frequently_asked_questions_about_the_release_of_lead_from_coffee_and_espresso_machines-188868.html. Could you please say something/make a test about the lead released in the coffee of this machine? I think it will be very helpful for others as well.
Hi - Thanks alot for all your great videos. It's really impressive work.
I have been researcing the Profitec 500 and in most of the videos the pressurestat is the same. But in "How To Adjust Brew Pressure on a Profitec Pro 500" ua-cam.com/video/uYKDQ3Stb3k/v-deo.html at about 2:54 the pressurestat is another version, the same as in the ECM Technika IV. If possible could you explain which is the standard version? Thanks Dennis
The Pro 500 in the video you linked is the old version. You can see this by checking out the fittings for the wand knobs, they're round, whereas in this video where they have the new version of the Pro 500, they're squared. If that is related to the difference in pressurestats I don't know however but could be! Wholelattelove will have to reply themselves if they know the reason :)