Classical saxophonist here. There’s effectively no demand for performances from the general public. Your only option really is to pray to get into one of the American service bands if you dream of getting paid to play classical music. Study music if you want, but you can’t be nieve and think boom you’ll get a “job” performing or at a university. Nowadays you need to be clever and a content creator or something. And if that’s your direction, even having an actual degree in music isn’t necessary. You can minor in music (like I did) and play all you want, while picking up a degree that has value in the workforce.
The world renowned Hallé orchestra played here in Sheffield (UK) a few days ago. Beethoven, Prokofiev. The place was only 1/4 full and had an average age of 70+. I cant see this happening in 10 years time unfortunately. Pearl Jam are playing the UK soon. £240 GBP for the cheapest GA ticket which is obscene IMO
I've been thinking similarly about this idea of stagnation in classical music. It seems to me that the classicap music culture now is basically creating generations of unbelievably technically skilled cover artists. Imagine if every pop/rock band around today just did covers of pop and rock songs from decades ago. Why would anyone want that? Why do we allow this in classical music? I'm glad to be a church musician where this is less of an issue. There is constantly a need for new choral and organ music since we have to "perform" every single week, and so the church is kind of a haven for those who want to hear new music in the classical tradition.
What you say about classical music is true for all art . The only people making money in any artistic endeavor are those selling things to wannabe artists. When I consider what it takes to gain the skills to be a professional classical musician, i.e., the years of study, the monumentally expensive lessons, and the tuition, with no real hope of making a living at it, I wonder why anyone would do it. You've got to be totally obsessed with it. I'm glad people do it, and the few that rise to the top are a real gift, but a video like this may be a enough of a dose of reality to keep those not talented/obsessed from wasting their time and money. I await the good news.
This scenario is already generally known, I think, but many close their eyes to the harsh reality and try to succeed the old-fashioned way, only to bring frustration and disillusionment into their lives. But... I hope there's some silver lining. So I'm eagerly waiting, with my fingers crossed, for the positive side of things, in the next video!... 🤞😊
Much of interest here, but not sure I would agree with the argument of stagnation merely on the grounds of 'old repertoire'. A good example would be the huge steps forward in the field of early music over the last two or three decades. In Europe, there are fantastic performers coming out of colleges like the Scola Cantorum Basiliensis who have revitalised early music peformance into something fresh, dynamic and exciting. Ensembles such as those of Jordi Savall, Rolf Lislevand or Christine Pluhar have very busy schedules and their tours sell out, and look at the younger generation such as Jakub Orlinski, Thomas Dunford or Jean Rondeau who have quickly become stars with a significant fanbase. Now their performances are based on very old repertoire indeed, yet by thoughtful use of instrumentation, improvisation and interpretation have provided a novel approach which has an audience and shows the timeless quality of great music.
Excellent points. In mentioning this issue I was thinking more of the standard recital within my own world (the piano) which can get predictable, with the same rep played on endless repeat.
@@cedarvillemusic Thanks so much for taking the time to reply. Yes agree in the 'classical' piano world there can be an over-obsession with perfecting the standard rep to an extremely rarefied level. Much of the music is divine - I could listen to Bach partitas or late Beethoven piano works a hundred times without tiring - but do wonder if there isn't room for a wider interpretive range than is usually taught at music schools, or for recitals which incorporate a broader range of rep or improvisatory aspects along the lines of your brilliant work? For example, I love Latin American music and there is a huge and fantastic repertory of piano music from that quarter which is very rarely heard in standard recitals except by LatAm pianists.
One of the trends killing the classical music industry, in my blunt opinion as a professional classical musician, is boring performances made by uninspired musicians. The last thing I want, is to spend money to hear another routine recital performed as just another day at work for those musicians. It's not just about stagnation in the repertoire - it's stagnation in the way this repertoire is performed. If I'm going to hear another Liszt sonata or Beethoven 5th symphony in concert, it must be different from all the other ones I've heard. It's not good enough to just play all of the notes. We're all familiar with the notes by now. Show me that you have a personal message. WHY are you choosing to perform this music? What makes YOUR performance worth listening to? These are questions I expect the performer to be able to answer through their music. I don't see conservatories making an effort in making students think critically about this. On the contrary, faculty staff are sometimes the most boring musicians of them all.
Classical musicians, especially pianists, should expand their skills into jazz, pop and rock music. That's where the audiences are and the money to make a decent living if the performer is seen and heard as someone with serious "chops" in those genres.
I'm always interested in what our learned professor has to say. But I prefer the older pronunciation of route as 'root' (like the French, which is what the word is): remember the pop song (well covered by the Stones), 'Route 66'? It's *root* 66 not 'rowt' 66. A *rout*, to my Anglo-American mind, is a disaster in battle : )
In America, it’s acceptable to pronounce it either way. I think that strange pronunciation may have come from the days when newspapers were delivered by local people who had a “paper route (rawt)”
@@MusicaAngela Yes, I hear *rowt* most often. Speaking of route, I have just by chance listened to a gardening professional on a UA-cam video calling roots 'ruhts'. That's a new one for me!
Something trendy and new is not necessarily better. How many years or centuries will the music of Kanye West be remembered? In our fleeting world people forget in five minutes, present attention span is too short unfortunately. A lot of people go to see something because it’s popular on social media. However, musical geniuses of the past transcend time and space. I do understand you’re talking about performance of the same pieces but as for me, I’ll never tire of hearing Bach, for example…
Kanye, a genuinely groundbreaking artist might be a bad choice for that one. His songs from 2004 are still massively relevant. Someone like Ed Sheeran would be a much better choice lol Edit: just got to that bit of the video lol. Kanye is shit now, no where near who he was
The deeper problem is that Western culture is dying, as simple as that…degeneration is taking over, quality classical music concerts are scarce, and nowadays it’s a cute relic of better times, just a century ago Rachmaninoff, Horowitz, Rubinstein, etc were in their prime, and although we still have a few brilliant pianists Alive today here and there, they’re subject to the same pressure…what’s happening in the classical music world is simply a reflection of our times, and I’m afraid it’s trending in a concerning direction.
Classical saxophonist here. There’s effectively no demand for performances from the general public. Your only option really is to pray to get into one of the American service bands if you dream of getting paid to play classical music.
Study music if you want, but you can’t be nieve and think boom you’ll get a “job” performing or at a university. Nowadays you need to be clever and a content creator or something. And if that’s your direction, even having an actual degree in music isn’t necessary. You can minor in music (like I did) and play all you want, while picking up a degree that has value in the workforce.
The world renowned Hallé orchestra played here in Sheffield (UK) a few days ago. Beethoven, Prokofiev. The place was only 1/4 full and had an average age of 70+. I cant see this happening in 10 years time unfortunately.
Pearl Jam are playing the UK soon. £240 GBP for the cheapest GA ticket which is obscene IMO
So sad.
I've been thinking similarly about this idea of stagnation in classical music. It seems to me that the classicap music culture now is basically creating generations of unbelievably technically skilled cover artists. Imagine if every pop/rock band around today just did covers of pop and rock songs from decades ago. Why would anyone want that? Why do we allow this in classical music?
I'm glad to be a church musician where this is less of an issue. There is constantly a need for new choral and organ music since we have to "perform" every single week, and so the church is kind of a haven for those who want to hear new music in the classical tradition.
All 3 videos are a refreshingly honest assessment of the music field, both appropriately critical and constructive. Thank you!
John, everything you do is gold!
John, I could honestly listen to you talk all day, you are so knowledgable! Thanks for sharing this, and keep the videos coming, I enjoy them!
What you say about classical music is true for all art . The only people making money in any artistic endeavor are those selling things to wannabe artists. When I consider what it takes to gain the skills to be a professional classical musician, i.e., the years of study, the monumentally expensive lessons, and the tuition, with no real hope of making a living at it, I wonder why anyone would do it. You've got to be totally obsessed with it. I'm glad people do it, and the few that rise to the top are a real gift, but a video like this may be a enough of a dose of reality to keep those not talented/obsessed from wasting their time and money. I await the good news.
This scenario is already generally known, I think, but many close their eyes to the harsh reality and try to succeed the old-fashioned way, only to bring frustration and disillusionment into their lives. But... I hope there's some silver lining. So I'm eagerly waiting, with my fingers crossed, for the positive side of things, in the next video!... 🤞😊
Much of interest here, but not sure I would agree with the argument of stagnation merely on the grounds of 'old repertoire'. A good example would be the huge steps forward in the field of early music over the last two or three decades. In Europe, there are fantastic performers coming out of colleges like the Scola Cantorum Basiliensis who have revitalised early music peformance into something fresh, dynamic and exciting. Ensembles such as those of Jordi Savall, Rolf Lislevand or Christine Pluhar have very busy schedules and their tours sell out, and look at the younger generation such as Jakub Orlinski, Thomas Dunford or Jean Rondeau who have quickly become stars with a significant fanbase. Now their performances are based on very old repertoire indeed, yet by thoughtful use of instrumentation, improvisation and interpretation have provided a novel approach which has an audience and shows the timeless quality of great music.
Excellent points. In mentioning this issue I was thinking more of the standard recital within my own world (the piano) which can get predictable, with the same rep played on endless repeat.
@@cedarvillemusic Thanks so much for taking the time to reply. Yes agree in the 'classical' piano world there can be an over-obsession with perfecting the standard rep to an extremely rarefied level. Much of the music is divine - I could listen to Bach partitas or late Beethoven piano works a hundred times without tiring - but do wonder if there isn't room for a wider interpretive range than is usually taught at music schools, or for recitals which incorporate a broader range of rep or improvisatory aspects along the lines of your brilliant work? For example, I love Latin American music and there is a huge and fantastic repertory of piano music from that quarter which is very rarely heard in standard recitals except by LatAm pianists.
One of the trends killing the classical music industry, in my blunt opinion as a professional classical musician, is boring performances made by uninspired musicians. The last thing I want, is to spend money to hear another routine recital performed as just another day at work for those musicians. It's not just about stagnation in the repertoire - it's stagnation in the way this repertoire is performed. If I'm going to hear another Liszt sonata or Beethoven 5th symphony in concert, it must be different from all the other ones I've heard. It's not good enough to just play all of the notes. We're all familiar with the notes by now. Show me that you have a personal message. WHY are you choosing to perform this music? What makes YOUR performance worth listening to? These are questions I expect the performer to be able to answer through their music. I don't see conservatories making an effort in making students think critically about this. On the contrary, faculty staff are sometimes the most boring musicians of them all.
Classical musicians, especially pianists, should expand their skills into jazz, pop and rock music. That's where the audiences are and the money to make a decent living if the performer is seen and heard as someone with serious "chops" in those genres.
jazz is even less popular than classical, but the skills do carry over to popular forms
I'm always interested in what our learned professor has to say. But I prefer the older pronunciation of route as 'root' (like the French, which is what the word is): remember the pop song (well covered by the Stones), 'Route 66'? It's *root* 66 not 'rowt' 66. A *rout*, to my Anglo-American mind, is a disaster in battle : )
In America, it’s acceptable to pronounce it either way. I think that strange pronunciation may have come from the days when newspapers were delivered by local people who had a “paper route (rawt)”
@@MusicaAngela Yes, I hear *rowt* most often. Speaking of route, I have just by chance listened to a gardening professional on a UA-cam video calling roots 'ruhts'. That's a new one for me!
Something trendy and new is not necessarily better. How many years or centuries will the music of Kanye West be remembered? In our fleeting world people forget in five minutes, present attention span is too short unfortunately. A lot of people go to see something because it’s popular on social media. However, musical geniuses of the past transcend time and space. I do understand you’re talking about performance of the same pieces but as for me, I’ll never tire of hearing Bach, for example…
Kanye, a genuinely groundbreaking artist might be a bad choice for that one. His songs from 2004 are still massively relevant. Someone like Ed Sheeran would be a much better choice lol
Edit: just got to that bit of the video lol. Kanye is shit now, no where near who he was
How many of those 900 actually understand the fundamental basis of the classical music they are playing? One? Two? If lucky?
He said these are doctoral students, so I hope they do.
The deeper problem is that Western culture is dying, as simple as that…degeneration is taking over, quality classical music concerts are scarce, and nowadays it’s a cute relic of better times, just a century ago Rachmaninoff, Horowitz, Rubinstein, etc were in their prime, and although we still have a few brilliant pianists Alive today here and there, they’re subject to the same pressure…what’s happening in the classical music world is simply a reflection of our times, and I’m afraid it’s trending in a concerning direction.