The truth about Nissan Qashqai e-Power 2023 series hybrid in Australia | Auto Expert John Cadogan
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- Опубліковано 9 лип 2022
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This isn’t new untried technology John - the Nissan e-Note had been one of the most popular cars in Japan for several years.
I own nissan kicks epower. Wayyyy more efficient than my other cars. The torque is amazing … all your theory might be right…. But to try it on your own is another thing. Buy one and try…. You’ll be happy….
15:40 - “Anybody who paid attention at school…”. None of us paid attention at school John, that’s why we watch your channel 🤣👍
I reckon the battery on the Nissan CashCow is probably just there to run the entertainment system so when it breaks down you can watch movies waiting for a tow.
Shucks. You beat me on using the name Nissan CashCow. Anyway the entertainment system will probably shut down after a couple of minutes to conserve battery power.
That's a bit harsh Simon 😂
Thumbs up for cashcow
Not as silly as it sounds.
I actually like this idea. Do away with heavy, dirty, expensive batteries in favor of small ones, and do away with the complexity and weight of transmissions, and enjoy hybrid-class fuel mileage.
I do think I would prefer a slightly larger battery to ease the stress on the battery, and I would prefer a diesel instead of turbo-3, but in principle, the e-power makes sense.
The 3 cyl turbo would be my biggest concern about buying an E:Power. You’d expect a 2.0-2.5L 4cyl n/a Atkinson cycle engine for the purpose of charging the battery at optimum revs as per the Honda CRV/ZRV. I don’t understand why it needs to spool up via the turbo to charge the battery faster.
It's very easy to look at ePower on paper and to be critical. But it does make a lot of sense. It has excellent fuel efficiency, performance, and cheaper than a full battery EV. This isn't new tech anymore - the Nissan ePower Note has been around since 2016 in Japan and they have just released a new model of it.
I own a ePower Note and typically get around 22 km/l (around 4.5 l/100) per tank. And that's not hyper-miling. Easily over 800km per tank on 91 RON.
Power figures aren't everything. The car has huge torque and is very smooth accelerating with no lag from turbo or gear shifts. It has the grunt where you want it.
I do doubt if we will see any ePowered Qashqais this year in Australia though. I also suspect the ePowered ones won't be turbo.
Unfortunately it doesn't have great fuel efficiency. Nissan quotes 44mpg and real world figures are lower.
I love the idea but if you'd put a decent modern normal engine and gearbox in there it would've easily gotten better mpg
I'm in California, but your biting witticisms are why I've been subscribed even if the vehicles you're talking about are often not available where I am at all. Thank you for your kick ass comedic candor!
Worth it in my case. I live in a very hilly country. The instant torque definitely helps. It's not just about fuel economy, which is about the same as Toyota hybrid.
Nissans next press release: "John Cadogan: ....The Nissan e-Power has proven to be absolutely remarkable!"
Hi. Well I have one of these in UK. I get around 55 to 67 mpg on my typical daily commute of mostly motorway. My previous car a 3 year old Audi A4 2.0 Diesel with mild hybrid tech managed 44-48 mpg. So there you go.
How do you find it in cold weather? I saw a review where the guy said cold weather affects fuel economy, which would concern me as I’d mostly be driving in the Scottish highlands. Do you think it’s anything to worry about?
The point of the ePower is that Nissan found people with plug-in hybrids is that they don't tend to plug them in and lots of people don't have the facility to plug in. As others have pointed out the ePower drive train has been extensively tested and in use in Japan. Regarding the charge/discharge of the battery is a function of the system and you can observe this in any hybrid vehicle. The Prius batteries have been shown to give a very long life on the whole. A recent test drive showed in excess of 55mpg. Not bad for an SUV.
I consider a hybrid to be where the wheels can be mechanically driven by either motive source. I consider the CashCow to be a petrol-electric vehicle rather than a hybrid in the same way that a locomotive is a diesel-electric not a hybrid.
Thanks for informing us plebs without engineering qualifications. You have a great way of helping me understand stuff like this Sir I salute you.
Speak for yourself Pleb!
Thank you. You're welcome.
@@AutoExpertJC is the e-power the same as the bow i8 or i3 range extender? they seem very similar
@@markboon1316 No, they're not.
Entertaining and informative as always. Given the apparent vulnerability of that battery in the scenario you describe, please tell me they put it in an easy-to-get-at location for future maintenance (not holding my breath)!
Brilliant job of explaining. I was puzzled when I heard of this vehicle. Now I know & you have a new fan & follower in the UK! Thx
Cheers John. What a wonderful couple of days the journos would have had at the trough. You could have explained the inverter's task a bit better, used to control speed and regenerative braking by modifying the electrickery. No probs. The locomotive analogy reminded me you have worked on locos, I've spent most of my working life (43 yrs) on them as a sparky. Aren't they an absolute wonderful beast. The main reason for diesel electric is to be rid of monstrous gearboxes and diffs etc, and better traction control, especially with the AC traction these days. You are a man I consider as a loco friend. lol. Thanks for the show.
Five minutes in and I thought why not ditch all the complex expensive crap and fit a gearbox, and you got me there through science...entertaining as always.
Gearbox, diff....mechanical losses all the way eh?
@@lexiecrewther7038 you still have a diff in e-power cars, and since the generator is not directly connected to the crankshaft you still have a few gears directing power from the engine to the generator so.. still have plenty of mechanical losses
I love how you explain everything John, definitely one of my favourite channels to watch for information, no bullshit and a laugh here and there. You’re certainly doing your part to MALS! Good on’ya mate. 👍
I think I'll keep my fantastic 2009 built 6 cylinder petrol Jaguar XF for a lot longer than I thought I would. Thanks John.
I've been looking at the newer XF Sportbreak. Gorgous on photos and video, but I've never encountered one in real life, to my knowledge. I just want a great long distance car that also takes large bikes or a mattress in the back. The Latter maybe folded away under the floor if I dare to forego the spare wheel? Such a shame that even a mild hybrid removes the spare wheel or extra cargo option. Surely better packaging can be arranged.
What worries me slightly about the Jag is how bare the thing really is when bare. You hardly get wipers or a speedometer. Optioned out, it ends up more costly than a BMW 5 or Mercedes E. And then I start wondering whether it's worth it, just to have a Jag, something no-one else has on the parking? The modern engines seem a bit boring, we need to almost be thankful they're RWD. If I could get an XF Sportbrake on a Tesla Model S skateboard, I'd jus go with that probably. Love the big battery for "camping" and the like. Don't want to be seen with a Tesla anymore though, I think. Bloody well designed though, the newest ones. Don't need 1000 hp, 300 is all I will ever need. Wish they'd still make a basic 100 with huge frunk and modest price...
As I understand it, the main point of criticism that John is making is that of the 116kW of energy that the petrol engine produces, only about 85kW reach the wheels due to losses when passing through the generator, inverter and electric motor, (without any support from the battery). My diesel engine (BMW 216d) produces a maximum of 85kW, and it is no slouch ! So, even without support from the battery, in my book (I’m not an expert like John!) the Nissan Qashqai e-Power should perform at least as well as my BMW 216d.
As to the economics : if the real-life consumption is around 5l/100km then I think that this car could very easily be a huge success, even if the price is considerably higher than that of the petrol version : the trade-off is that this car drives like an EV = PURE PLEASURE. As a former owner of an EV (BMW i3 22kWh) I am no fan of EVs per se because they are expensive, have low mile-ranges, and they take a long time to charge. This car affords the driver the EV driving experience, but avoids all of the aforementioned EV-nightmares.. If it promises what it preaches, this car can be a huge success despite the energy losses than John describes in this video.. Despite the debatable weaknesses cited by John, I still give this concept a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ rating.
I work for a specialist radiator/heat-exchanger manufacturer, we build units for Formula E, to keep the batteries cool. In regen-braking, the battery temps go nuts, and the same as the cars draw power to accelerate. Battery temp control is essential, both in race cars and little shitbox road cars.
The fans keeping them cool get clogged eventually. It's a maintenance must
If that battery rejects 10% of discharge power as heat, it's going to need to convect about 6.5kW to remain broadly isothermal...
@@AutoExpertJC lithium batteries are not 90% efficient John. Try 99%
I would imagine that race cars would use nickel metal hydride, rather than lithium, for safety reasons
@@lexiecrewther7038 I agree , super capacitors even better
The way John worked that into an ad was pretty slick.
But Bluettis are really good!
Well & thoroughly explained JC(17 mins).👍👍
Love the old school butcher's paper drawing board and the excellent explanation
Unless you have a plug in hybrid and have it charging off the solar panels at home - or on cheaper power at night does it matter? Where does the electricity come from? Coal? natural gas? Hydro? Nuclear? How much range can the $3/l petrol get you creating electricity for the electric motor/s?
@Volkan The issue is batteries last 10 years if you are lucky -then having to spend $10s of thousands to replace. Consider just running a standard Corolla for 20+ years resulting in less production waste.
John, what would be the likely performance of this setup when overtaking a large truck uphill? Sounds somewhat scary if you also are facing something coming down the hill simultaneously.
As usual an informative and entertaining video John. Greetings from a dysfunctional London!
We'd give you a run for dysfunctionality...
At least your invasive pest had the dignity of buggering off. We had to remove our tick with pliers.
@@AutoExpertJC Sorry John we would beat you
hands down.
If properly designed, could the engine connected to generator operate longer at peak efficiency than if it was connected to a transmission? Assuming that the battery storage was bigger than the piffling 2.1 kWh battery in the Nissan.
Other news articles seem to claim that the e power vehicles, i.e. Note, Serena etc. are quite efficient though. Could this be due to the fact that the engine can run at an optimum RPM for charging?
Also compared to an ordinary EV, e-power would be much lighter. The Kicks e-power is 1340kg vs 1109kg for the petrol version (about 20% more). But full EVs are nearly 2 tonnes. Plus the e-powers have regenerative braking which would contribute to efficiency.
I would mainly be concerned about the deterioration of the small battery/capacitor. What happens when it can't deliver the rated power or can't store as much energy. Does acceleration suffer? How much would a replacement battery/capacitor be? Questions, questions!
I have been thinking about a similar system, using a conventional EV with a small 3kva generator, (insert engineer here to work it out). The generator would run all the time for a long trip where there is no charging available. I believe this is a fair chunk of Australia.
Hi John 😊 thanks for the in depth analysis, and the realy valuable data that any would be buyer of one of these lemons should consider before throwing their money away. Cheers mate, keep doing what you do best, stay safe, best wishe's to you and your's, Stuart UK.
The most cynical and anorexic hybrid has to be the Subaru Forester Hybrid, I rented one last week, it can run in EV mode at walking pace on the flat for about 200m before the motor kicks back in 0.6KWh and the whole package is gutless to say the least.
Didn't the now discontinued Cheverolet Volt use a similar series hybrid system...but with a much larger battery?
Hi John,would that minute saving on fuel be used up by the extra wear and tear on the tyres due to all the extra weight of such a vehicle?
200kg extra. So, more than 10%.
That is the best explanation of fuel to battery use I have ever seen. You sir. Rule
is the e-power the same as the bmw i8 or i3 range extender? they seem very similar
If all else fails they can just add a 240v outlet and come up with clever ad campaigns such as "Can your portable generator do this?"
Minus the vehicle it would be a cracker of a generator set.
I have Qashqai 2016 model cost me 33500 NZD. It gives me 6.2 km/L on highway, better than other hybrids advertised in its class, not sure about epower though, but the simple nonhybrid one is amazing, drives much better than the RAV4 I drove and am unable to get something that can replace it so far!!
Good video and research explaining the e Power tech. Just to note the e Power tech has been around since 2016 in the JDM only Note. If you look on UA-cam you'll see a lot of videos from hot countries that sell the Note E Power and it appears it can take the heat. Also I have a 2017 Note E Power that runs on 91 and it has been a great car and I ser it as a transition to full EV. You are correct though the Aussie journos who went on that trip they were talking marketing BS.
I read the article on this car in the Australian at the time and was quite impressed with the car and it’s novel power system. Was that article correct in its evaluation of the E power system?
The Suzuki battery is probably 3x the usable capacity to keep the state of charge somewhere between 30% and 60%. This means the discharge rate is around 10C which is a crazy high number but viable compared to you 20C+.
What if you put the battery between the inverter and the electric motor. Maybe make the battery bigger if needed. Would the (in)efficiency be the same?
Thanks for giving us a clear idea of the actual size of the battery alongside the rest of your excellent report.
I don’t understand why they couldn’t jam at least 5 or 6 of them in to at least make the old cash cow a pretender.
I've seen radio controlled car batteries up to 120C. In car racing, similar is used.
What helps is that high-C cells tends to be (not always) have higher efficiency and thus need to dissipate less heat for a giving load cycle. But yes, they still get hot. Some chemistries don't suffer thermal runaway, but these are sadly awkward for use in BEVs by virtue of high cost (no problem for supercars) and crucially: low energy density (super heavy battery to not get far at all).
Could the internal combustion engine in this configuration run more efficiently than the engine in an internal combustion only vehicle? Since the internal combustion engine is not directly driving the wheels, I would have thought there would some opportunity optimising its performance (like running at optimal revs).
No transmission, no diff
That and the driving feel.
You mean run in Atkinson cycle like Toyota does perhaps? That is supposed to have higher thermal efficiency than the regular Otto cycle ( I think that is what it’s called)
I wait to be corrected
@@robhargraves3805 e power is Atkinson
I mean an ICE vehicle has to be setup to handle varying conditions, like a sudden full throttle when cruising at low revs. It would need to be tuned to deliver a broad power band in order to be able to deal with the full range of conditions a driver is likely to be confronted with.
An ICE that only needs to run a generator could, I would have thought, be tuned with a narrow power band, designed to run the generator at maximum efficiency, regardless of what the vehicle is doing.
Nissan Japan do offer E-power with other vehicles for sale in Hong Kong, where I am from, such as Note (a supermini) and Serena (a MPV).
Drivers of these vehicles claim that they can max a thousand km from a tank of petrol, and a claimed JC08 fuel economy of 24.8km/L.
Serena E-power has a fuel tank of 55L, and there is a fuel car media video that shows that it is capable
Of 1000km (well of mostly highway driving)
i have qashqai and now bought note epower, it sometimes shows 99.9 km/L, not sure about economy though as it has been just a week since we bought but it is much, much better than the ordinary, will update soon. If new e-power is anywhere near like that, am in for it as qashqai is the most beautiful and efficient crossover SUV
The 1.2 liter NA engine on the earlier e.power is sure to be far more efficient than this 1.5 Turbo. Series hybrids are thirstier on the highway.
@@GbMuthu not necessary, the Nissan 1.5 turbo has high compression ratio, which reduce fuel use, it also DIG, which has lean burning. The Nissan Altima which is bigger brother to this engine get 37 MPG US or 44 imperial cruising at 75 MPH easily.
I assume you guys use A/C all the time - how does this affect battery range?
John, you mention at about 22 minutes to bring out the fire extinguisher. I thought that a lithium battery fire could not be controlled with anything but a lot of water. What have I missed?
How does the variable compression work & why is it needed?
The e-power is the 32 hp (in Europe) stronger version of the Qashqai which combines an even slightly lower fuel comsumption with the comfort and torguey ride of an EV without the need of charging. That's what the e- power is all about and thats just fine, imho. In that context it actually is efficient, albeit not really an EV of course. It may in the emission department not so efficient (though still it has a lower fuel comsumption than the less powerful 1.3 mhev engines), but drivingwise it is.
I believe "green" is not the primary word intended by Nissan, but it's more about improved drivability.
I may be wrong but wouldn’t capacitors be a better choice than a battery for what they it to do in the E power squashed frog?
ua-cam.com/video/jT5L-YFnP7s/v-deo.html It's battery does work as a capacitor
good onya john,,,,any news on the mazda cx-60 as yet,,,;looks promising with the 3.3lt diesel or the 2.5 plus battery ,,,
The "fire extinguishers at the ready" comment made me smile.
Might go electric when the Mr Fusion option is available
Can't wait.
Why not just utilise the clean, cheap & reliable tech that's on the shelf right now?
They've effectively done what I thought should be done for years now. I know how diesel electric locomotives work and I realised it would probably be a good way to move a car. I did always think a small turbocharged diesel would be the best solution though
Yep, but fake-green governments are now banning diesel cars, through some myopic misunderstanding of passenger car contributions to climate change.
But why ?
For what efficiency gain vs extra complexity and cost.
John covered that in the video at the end of the efficiency losses part.
This hybrid monstrosity is no more efficient than a std vehicle with an automatic transmission, costs more and with the added complexity, this will effect long term reliability, maintenance will be different from a std vehicle, so will require specialist equipment and training for the technicians, the cost of which will be passed on to the customers.
That is actually a bad idea for any new design. A real plugin hybrid with a relatively small engine will get you far better fuel economy, doubly so if most trips are short ones. Engines tend to be inefficient until they warm up.
Chevrolet already had done this over 10 years ago. It was called the Volt and was sold here under the Holden brand.
Surely the correct way to do it would be have a battery large enough to run the car with a decent range and have the petrol/diesel engine as a range extender. Not like this which is almost the opposite...
The new Kia Niro Hev has a 1.32kWh battery but gets much better figures on fuel efficiency to the e-power Qashqai system. I really thought the e-power would get more before I watched this video! So size of the battery doesn't make much of a difference in these self charging hybrids? More about efficiency of the system?
I like the analysis John, I can’t see them running the battery this way. Do you think it more likely that the electric motor power is limited to the maximum available output from the Petrol motor, your 85kw number, and the electric motor is oversized to provide good torque at low speeds / power? The battery is then probably only there for low speed, stop start running.
So a tow bar option will not be available?
Sounds more like a job for a supercapacitor than a battery. How is the cooling engineered for that build in storage thing?
So what you're saying John, is that the car would be good for silently creeping away from the house to the end of the road when the husband returns home earlier than expected but not much further?
Very well described. So, I suppose the same goes for the arrangement in the Honda HRV hybrid, at least up to the point where, in Honda's case, the ICE engages directly with the wheels at about 70km/hr
Honda gets it right. At high speeds is more efficient to let the engine handle the wheels.
I had read a copy of reviews of this car and the first thought that came to mind " why do you need a 1500 cc turbo engine as a generator" ...so its great to see you reviewing and explaining this seemingly overly complex system John -( excellent explanation ) and as an R/C modeller who uses and understands C discharge ratings of Lipo batteries and their "go on fire" potential...the discharge C rating in this car is indeed a serious worry....
Ditto, if the engine is only to charge the battery, why use an unreliable turbo engine. A naturally aspirated port injected engine would be more efficient. There will be no different load on the engine going up a hill or going fast.
The turbo produces more torque at lower revs, so reducing the revs required to power the generator. Since it will be running most of the time, it won't suffer the cold to max revs issues like other hybrids. I want to test one for myself and I have heard nothing but sour grapes from John! True the journalists have done a crap job up to now. Perhaps John can get his hands on one and do a proper review.
Hi John, good afternoon to you sir. When I was in the market for a replacement to my Seat Alhambra diesel I read about the upcoming Nissan and it’s new running system and I have to be honest I thought this sounds like a colossal 24k fuck up and I’m so happy I made the right decision (in my opinion anyway) and ordered the new Kia Sportage in HEV format. What were Nissan (and Renault) thinking? I’m not mechanically minded what so ever, I just get in press a button and go. If I could see the uselessness of Nissan’s new running system , surely they should have, too. No? Obviously not.
Great channel John. I always learn things from your brilliant explanations.
Kind greetings from Cumbria in the U.K. Shitsville of the Norther Hemisphere.
Stay safe and well.
Would you review the BYD Atto 3 please. This is the only car in it's class which has strings for door pockets which can actually be played. This alone makes it a must buy EV! The info screen turns from horizontal to vertical!! Automatically!!! It is these features which can turn the head of a discerning car buyer. Thank you in advance.
This drivetrain has been in production since 2016 in the Note. So far it seems to be fairly reliable.
And efficient at 2.9/100km. Better than a prius. But John claims "efficiency fail"
@@lexiecrewther7038 Well they are saying the Qashqai gets 5.3l/100, not sure why it's that much higher.
@@sanchogonzalez4037 weight, drag coefficient, rolling resistance, ground clearance
Good work, again.
Will they split the battery from the main warranty.
Seven years for bulk of the warranty.
Seven months for the battery warranty.
They treated 1st-gen Leaf owners badly.
I think the market will receive it as filling the gap between lugging lots of battery weight and rare metals around and the one pedal EV smooth driving experience.
They love the RAV 4 Hybrid and Toyota have an enduring success with basic hybrids. Only now entering the full EV market.
Some of us don't have the ability to plug at home or work and think batteries have a long way to progress from their current form.
As with Tesla the market will decide.
nissan did a great job with this initiative of e-power range of cars, mazda will also make the cx-30 with a rotary generator... but we need more of these and more upgrade on the technology, like mating to it a cvt to make the engine always be in the low rpm. and make it run on ethanol ! they are truly ingenious
John, I suggest you should try to sneak INTO a NISSAN press release. Try hiding in a double bass case and get taken in by the Band.
Of course, your journey will need to commence from Lebanon. I have heard this technique has been successful. Cheers.
It's a plan.
@@AutoExpertJC almost like the trend toward universal randomisation ?
Just to check my understanding, are you saying that it’s not as good as a plug-in hybrid?
And can you clarify for those of us who don’t have any facility to plug-in a car, and so are looking at ‘self-charging’ hybrids, is it better than the other options, such as the Kia Sportage?
I’m mostly asking because that’s the market it’s aimed at. For people who aren’t mechanics, and who are looking at the ‘self-charging’ hybrid option, your video has mostly made the decision even more confusing.
What would be the benefit of changing my Lexus NX 300h for this?
The new Nissan X-trail E-Power has been tested by a few reliable car journalists in the UK recently.
All have been impressed by the quality of the drive but disappointed with the real world fuel economy.
Car manufacturers tend to not reveal all their cards at once, leaving room to improve for the next model thus stimulating sales. Guessing a bigger battery will come at some point.
I generaly admire your explanations, the are clear and sound.
But you missed one solution about battery, it could be build heavly parallel, easing current limit at a cost of lower voltage, wich maybe enough or can be solved at inverter stage (with higher losses in baterry only mode, in generator mode voltage can be added to generator voltage).
The tiny battery seems such a waste of a good idea, few extra kWh and it might have been a great solution (allowing more regen storage and more efficient charging from the generator system, along with better longevity). The instant torque and smooth delivery of EV, but range and refueling of ICE.
Also, the battery supposedly can supply 66kW discharge and charge with usable storage of 2kWh. This makes it sound more like a super-capacitor than battery (which would make more sense for this high energy flow use case). Makes me wonder if it actually is, but Nissan PR couldn't handle trying to explain that it's not really a battery to us plebs.
Please tell me why they need a turbo charged Direct Injection engine just to keep a battery charger.
Would it not have been better to have a larger battery to truly support a more reasonable EV only range especially over short urban driving.
I'm Interested in the new 2023 Mitsubishi outlander Phev due out in Aug and Kia sorento Phev . Please do a review 🙏
"Press release recyclers"
So very true. Not only in features on new cars but also in car reviews. One only has to read/view several reviews of the same new car to realise that the 'reviewers' are mostly all recycling the press release and presentation given to them beforehand by the manufacturer.
I believe that the BMW i3 EV used range-extender as an option for about $6000 extra some years ago. The idea with this concept is that if the EV is fitted with a 64KWh battery (say), the 36 KW bicycle engine (mounted in the boot) would kick-in when the main battery SoC is 15% or more depending on regulations of the country in which such an option is used.
This concept is more useful in the sense that if one cannot get to a charging point with the current battery charge say, the range extender (that takes 1.5 litre of petrol) will kick in to prevent one getting stranded - it seems a good option for Australia where distances between charging stations may be large.
I do have one of those. It is designed to serve this exact purpose. Does the job if the battery alone is what you need most of the time with the option to "get you there" without sitting in a queue at the charger. The downside is that the little motor barely holds charge on highway speed and will not make it if you are going up a hill. In the US it becomes a problem as the extender kicks in at something like 8% and when it loses charge up a hill it cuts power. Mine can be turned on if charge is under 75% so I can manage that depending on what the plan for the trip is. There is also quite a bit of heat coming out of it. I learned to time it so I switch it off 10 minutes before I reach the destination to allow more airflow and not let the fans go when stopped.
And to confirm what everyone probably already knew...the motor sounds like shit. But you can't always have it your way. I do love the car but let us be realistic.
Unfortunately not, which is why there are no more cars produced with range extenders.
@@razvanlex The alternative is to carry your own petrol or diesel generator in the boot in case the battery is flat and there is no charging point in sight.
@@Ernst12 Yes, that :) or it would be better to choose the car for the intended use. Family of 5 should not buy a small car like Toyota Aygo, family of two should not buy a pick-up truck if living in a big city (well, unfortunately that happens). So yes, don't go full electric yet if living in a country with poor charging infrastructure or if not having the opportunity to charge the car at the house or work. But maybe, if a family has two cars and they don' commute to work a long way, one of the cars should be electric. The other one can be used for long trips if needed.
@@razvanlex You are spot on. I've been screaming this for ages. The Rex is great when you have an emergency but not long term. For a small battery it works. Anything bigger than this is a bit meh. And, yes, I do have a long trip car aside.
Thanks for addressing this, JC. As a designer of marine vessels that has seen so many different ways to propel craft under the moniker "hybrid", my first response was "hey look, a diesel-electric car", quickly followed by the realisation of the efficiency losses in the package. My take is that Nissan was banking on an alternative technology and was caught on the hop by a market demanding a hybrid, and are now trying to sell us on the idea that something they could develop and bring to market quickly is in some way superior for those differences. When you said "95% efficiency is achievable for an inverter" my reaction was "yeah, but I bet not the way Nissan and their beancounters chose to do it". They have not led the market in one single aspect of electric or hybrid technology, not battery packaging, not cooling, not transmissions, not anything. To hope that they would be near the top of the range of inverter technology would be naive.
But it’s petrol.
@@nigelpickering5037 Fair enough, it's petrol electric then. Still a bad idea in my opinion.
Thanks for the way you make science interesting and entertaining. I am in the UK and asked Nissan if this system was more efficient in the urban environment, like an EV or on the open road like an ICE. They couldn't answer it! They said they 'think' it's better in the city and pointed me back at their website, which says nothing of substance. As a driver of a 12 year old diesel Qashqai, which I've happily driven for 10 years and would happily drive for another 10 years, if it holds out, I was seriously considering buying into the voodoo. I like the fact that Qashqai is the closest thing we now have to a UK motor manufacturing industry, but if I stick with the brand, I think I'll get the ICE version and suspend my desire to go EV for a while longer.
In terms of efficiency, it is definitely better on open roads. I drove it on motorway a few hours, around 65mpg, in heavy traffic it was around 40-45 mpg.
It would be interesting to know the duration at which the E-power can supply the 140kW output. I'd imagine Nissan would limit peak power output duration or limit the max power output when held over a larger time.
The only reason (that i can think of) Nissan would produce a model like this would be to supply a plug in hybrid version, making the two models almost identical in terms of manufacturing equipment. With the PHEV costing more and having a heavier curb weight due to having a +15kWh battery.
He told you how long the 140 kw output could be maintained: given his scenario assuming 90% efficiency per process, the generator could deliver 85kw and the battery, if fully charged, could theoretically deliver the remaining 55kw for approx. two minutes. See the video at 23:30. Simple computation, basically; 2 kWh=120 kWminutes or 60 kw/2-minutes. This is of course assuming that the battery can withstand such a rate of discharge (@ 32C).
Why would you use a 1.5 turbocharged engine to run a generator? Couldn’t you do it with a 1 litre non turbocharged engine? How much torque would a generator need?
I'm calling BS on this story about a 1.5 turbo. I think will be a 1.3 turbo on the non-epower and 1.5 atmo on the epower.
Thank you, John.
So, the Quasqai ePower (claimed) fuel use of 5.5/100 vs. it's competitor Yaris Cross Hybrid's (if you can get one this century) (claimed) 3.8/100. Hmm.
Yaris Cross is a class below the Qashqai, with a power-train a class below to match.
@@Jaredscott89 but is likely to last longer than any Nissan. I have owned 4 Nissan's - all pre2003 and one Renault. The Nissan's were great but the Renault started sh***Ng itself before 100 000 km.Would never buy a Renissan today.
@@effbee56 I don't subscribe to nonsense claims like that. I've had multiple Nissan and Toyota vehicles, none were any trouble, all had their minor faults. The Toyota's just drove like absolute shit and were layered with ugly cheap plastic inside, the Nissan products were also somewhat cheap, but were luxurious compared to the Toyota products.
Not sure what 2003 is supposed to mean to anyway.
Writing off an entire brand because of a single instance of a vehicle breaking is incredibly stupid. Taking that to its logical conclusion, you would never buy a car at all from anyone...
Kia Sorrento diesel 6 lt / 100 on a trip
@@davidwright1752 Rather good for a SUV. I can get 5 lt / 100 (4.8 if I go real gentle) on a trip, Skoda Fabia wagon gen 2 1.6 TDi.
In the hobby space 20-30C lithium polymer is common and 50C is also readily available in decent capacities. However these high discharge batteries are the most keen on spectacular failure....
Around Melbourne 95 is currently 2.55 a litre average, 91 is hovering around 239 atm 👍
Great to see some common sense journalism with basic math and science minus the hype. Well played sir!! I’d like to add the new Nissan Cumquat is pretty unappealing look at as well.
I've seen previous (Japanese only) e-power Nissans brought in to Australia via importers and had similar thoughts. My assumption was that this design must be a stepping stone to some other sort of non-electric fuel source because this just doesn't make enough sense to justify the complexity.
Ok system with decent battery(Volt: Outlander), but bugga all battery, worse than a Toyota Hybrid! Why arent Mitsubishi (and now Nissan) using a small diesel to drive the genators of the PHEV, like a locomotive does, that'll surely push efficiency it the right direction - is it the constant engine restarts maybe?
The comparison to be made is efficiency - loss in energy conversion between an automatic transmission drive and a generator/ motor drive system. Train engineers are operating the electrical equivalent of a manual transmission by "changing gears" with switches to drive the traction motors.
You rock John. Still keen for you to have a chat to Greg at ACE EV and get your opinion
John elaborates the inefficiencies but doesn’t explain the big efficiency gain behind the concept. Running a small petrol engine in its sweet spot is more efficient than a bigger engine all over the rev range. The electric system acts as a buffer. So it’s not such a crazy idea.
I also like that they got rid of the gearbox. I think that makes it worth it...
At least they don't claim it uses a belt based CVT as most motor journalist seems to think regarding the Toyota e-CVT. The clever thing about the e-CVT is that part of the engine power is transferred mechanically. A similar principle is used in modern farm tractors except hydraulics is used instead of electricity. However (John) Deere is currently launching an electric CVT for large farm tractors. The technical term for this principle is a power split device.
Nissan use a very simple reliable gear box with only four gears, attach to motor and generator, two to the motor two to the generator, only that no clutch, nor nothing else. John fail to see there is independent report from people who drive the e-power as well.
Interesting article about what to me is a pointless exercise in engineering. Also, down here in Victoria they've introduced road taxes on EVs and PHEVs. Now, how will this vehicle be classified given that all of its energy is derived from liquid fuel (I don't recall it being mentioned if it has plug-in capability)?
I think you missed one aspect about ICE engine, in mechanical drive it is not working in optimal conditions (ICE are very bad at low speeds and starting from 0),
so losses are facet on power conversion, but posibilty to run ICE engine most of the time in optimal part of it's characterstic may balance this losess from point of total efficiency (in fuel use).
Also such control can help run ICE more clean.
Well you forgot that this technology is already used for many years in Japan and its the best selling engine there. Why? Can you explain this too John?
If you think this car bad look up the Mazda MX-30... one of the many issues is (via another youtube channel).... It is 43.4 degrees Celsius or 110 degrees Fahrenheit, and we’re filming a car with such a crippled spec sheet that we can’t keep the AC running
II get all the engineering an calculations on these vehicle John. I get that the purchase price vs possible fuel savings might not be worth it. However, Toyota hybrids, particulary the RAV4 as killing it in the market. The thing I've always hated about parallel hybrids is the Jekyll and Hyde way in which the driverain operates. The same thing can be said of PHEVs. A pure BEV in comparison is ultra smooth and a joy. So for people that do not want to go full EV at thiis point, the series hybrid drivetrain of the e-Power has me intrigued as to what it will be like to drive. What will real world fuel consumption be?
It will come down to this, a direct side by side comparison with the RAV4 Hybrid, how much fuel each actually uses in the real world, and how much more expensive each version is comparitively to its non-hybrid version. People are always spending more than they need on a car, infact part of the reason to purchase a RAV4 hybrid is th fact it is more powerful than its non-hybrid version, not just the fuel savings.
On the point of PHEVs, I wouldn't be happy to purchase one in states that have a EV tax. You pay 2.1c/km even if you never plug the thing in. Infact the whole EV tax makes little sense as it is collected by states but fuel tax is collected by the Feds? So what revenue are state governments missing out on exactly? PHEVs also use a hell of a lot of battery cells compared to a regular hybrid, and if you DO tend only to use your PHEV for short distances and charge it each night, pulling around the petrol engines seems like a waste and may peraps deteriate from lack of regular use.
I would love to see John invited to one of these press releases. Can you imagine the look on their faces when he starts asking questions, instead of just nodding his head and sipping champagne.
They hate that. Voice of experience.
@@AutoExpertJC is the e-power the same as the bmw i8 or i3 range extender? they seem very similar