Tradition VS Competition | Goju-ryu KATA | 伝統VS競技 | 剛柔流型 | Meitetsu Yagi | 八木明哲先生
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- Опубліковано 14 січ 2019
- Let's learn the real Okinawa traditional karate now with the members
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Let's compare those and find the difference!!
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#Ki#goju-ryu#OkinawaTraditionalKarate - Спорт
Traditional kata supporters hit like
I love how dai sensai looks like an emperor surveying his kingdom. He looks exactly how a master should. It's perfect
I like it all. Just do karate. Or any martial art. Do what you love. Love what you do.
In the tournaments here in the USA, everyone moves like a robot in traditional kata tournaments, they scream as if they were killing him. Many times I am a judge in those tournaments, when I give them low punctuation for shouting too much and badly executed kata, and not to think that it is a traditional kata, they ask me why, they get angry, when I give my reason, they answer me, this is America, then my Answer, do American Kenpo, but Karate is karate, respect.
Shihan, thank you for protecting our martial art and it's traditions. Greetings from Chile!
If they scream too much then it is NOT traditional Karate Do; it is something else. Traditional Karate Do has only 2 Kiai not many in the Kata. And if they say "this is america" then there's my awnser!!!
Where was you last week at the AKA warrior cup in Chicago I did Traditional Kata and Continuous sparring I got one of the lowest scores of my life because I didn't go out there like a cheerleader and shout and showboat I did Kusanku like it was meant to be done but since I wasn't playing the game I wasn't going to place and I haven't competed in years... I won continuous sparring so that was fun point fighters still don't know how to handle someone that's actually going to fight them.
Shouting is not really necessary in combat.
Have you ever seen a man shouting at another while fighting?.
He'll be out of breath before the fight begins, lol
Traditional martial arts actually discuss the harmony between the inner and outter , that is by combining the kiai with the strikes.
In actual combat, it's a swift short exhale while you are striking.
You need to take the tournaments rules into consideration. Some have more traditional rules regarding shouts, uniforms and weapons. Nbl for example limits the number of shouts.
You need to be there at the judges meeting to be able to differentiate between various styles, rules and interpretations.
Nice kata. I'm more partial to the traditional kata personally. It's always nice to see Taira sensei perform kata. The Yagi dojo brings back many fond memories :) Keep the videos coming please! I really enjoy them!
I've had one friendly fight with one of goju ryu practitioner years ago, and damn it was as if I was attacking metal boned human. I got bruises even from their blocks
I guess in the attempt to popularize karate, competition has included several flashier but safer characteristics, all together have landed it a spot in the next Olympics, which I think is not a bad thing.
I tend to be disappointed though, with schools that ignore traditional teachings and become only sporting schools rather than martial art schools where their students can advance to the top levels of competition in their categories but they would (and some times they are beaten quickly) not be able to defend themselves or their loved ones in a real street fight.
It is a slippery slope when hard work and painful exercises scare students away but medals, trophies and a lot of quick belt promotions fill the schools. Teachers have to make a living.
I am actually impressed about this school properly teaching traditional and competition karate at the same time.
It was the first Goju Ryu school given permission by Master Chojun Miyagi to open independently. Established in 1952.
This is an excellent video. Thank you for posting.
A nice contrast between the traditional and sport versions of kata. Thank you for sharing.
Beautiful. Both versions.
Traditional kata is always the best, best among the rest💪💪💪👍👍👍
So fluid and powerful
Excellent exercise
Man. that first old dude doing the kata was legit. It sounded totally different because of the Qi, definitely a case of internal damage is you get hit by him.
He looks like he can hurt you a lot with no effort
Respect to all karetekas but I liked the first kata the best.
looks very similar to Ishin-Ryu.( both are Okinawan). No high kicks like Tae Kwon Do. Mostly low to the ground. Knee kicks. Front snap kicks usually aimed straight into the solar plexus,(gut, or slightly higher maybe). The knee kicks are devastating and will break an opponents knee easily. Fight over! Once the student masters kicking at knee level, then you go progressively higher to sternum or chest level, and the front snap kick will reach chin height. Very balanced and very powerful. Respect to Master Meitetsu!
That makes sense, since Isshin-Ryu is based on Goju-Ryu
It looks terrifyingly and yet beautifully powerful.
Genuinely I think kururunfa may be my new favorite kata from a visual perspective
I think both are amazing
Traditional kata = real Karate. Sport or competition kata = a dance competition. In my humble opinion, of course.
Both have their usefulness
Its still the same kata just done faster or slower
@@amberharmsen2497 agreed. Both has their uses. And blatantly ignoring one to favour others because of bias only hinders any growth imo. Put yourself out there (not necessarily to fight or do kata competitions for the sake of winning), but to learn from the experience and how it can make your own kata or kumite better.
I like to think of even competitions as another way to learn Karate. Not THE way to learn. But A way to learn. And even Higaonna sensei says that even sports Karate has its place so Karatekas has a platform to test themselves.
興味深く此のビデオをお見しました。日本の事に興味が持つことの沢山の理由の間では、書道や茶道や歌舞伎や具体的に、このビデオが武道の素晴らしさを示したのような伝統です。
謙虚になったアメリカ人でしかないです。
I like how the first practitioner finished his style in the same position on the floor where he initially started 1:40 -3:20...cool fluid shit. Experience does outshine!
I don't think it's experience. The original kata was designed to stop at the start, while the sport one wasn't.
@Heidern Heinrich lol
@@shazamsakazaki good to know
@@shazamsakazaki Okinawan karate has never emphasized starting and ending in the same spot. The embusen of many kata simply do not allow it. Only when karate became Japanese i.e. Shotokan, did this emphasis, for sport competition become popular. Shotokan even placed 3 bunny hops to the end of Chinte kata so the kata would end up at the beginning spot. There is no explanation for these hops except someone f'kd up the embusen and was too proud to research the proper Okinawan embusen. There is no way that suparinpei or sanseiryu can start and stop at the same place. Too many forward steps, angular sliding steps or movements and not enough steps going back.
very cool for movies
The difference is much less obvious than for traditional Kung Fu and modern Wushu 🤔 they don't look that much different to me, but I have to say I prefer (I am going to be so much hated for that ahah) the modern version. Much sharper, precise, net and to me beautiful (it is the goal of the sport, make the kata beautiful). But I do see more practicality in the traditional one because it doesn't focus that much on being beautiful. It is just a book of techniques that were part of the fighters repertoire back in the day. The focus of those old school fighters were not to have a beautiful form, but to train fighting, conditioning as well etc..
Taira sensei! I hope to have an opportunity to train with him again.
Cool sir
Excellent,thanks yagi.
Excelente ¡¡¡¡
traditional excecution by the master was the best by far.
Bravo oss
Excelencia
Always like Taira Sensei’s Kata, clean and sharp.
Nice like karate also shaolin kung fu.
Echt Super👌👌👌
Hermoso fui alumno de Shijan Félix García en Goju Ryu Shorei
Traditional kata for the win.
Everyone knows Sensei Miyazato was the successor of Sensei Miyagi Choujun
Ossu .and hello from algeria
I'd appreciate it if someone could explain to me the purpose behind 'sport' kata. What is it? Thanks.
oh,man.I can't even do half of the katas.Is there any kata in picking finger foods?
What is the name of the song in the introduction?
Plz want karate videos step step
So, what was the difference between the sports and traditional ones?
I need the song you use for your intros XD XD
The traditional Suparinpei looks really good. There are controlled and precise movements with good transitions. The competition katas need to slow down. They also require more training.
I see some overlap with some of the kung fu forms I've practiced. Biggest fundamental difference I see is this is a little slower, with great focus on power generation, and more rigid looking. Honestly though, I feel like most of these guys could kick my butt. I really need to resume my training.
they couldnt, they dont actually fight, train boxing for 6 months and u destroy all of them
When Kata Over 💯 techniques, 🤳 me! Shaolin ☯️
Looks like traditional from what I saw seems much better
Im a noob when it comes to martial arts, but, this so called 'kata', is amazing to me. I think studying it, will also train ur balance, how u move effectively. Look at their stance.
But, it will be better if there's a sparring partner. So we can see how this kata should be applied in real situation.
That is true, kata does train balance and also coordination, and from much kata practice your body and mind will naturally discover what works and what doesn't. Much respect for you friend
Ivan you are correct. I train goju ryu in Australia , and yes they are very good at building your body's ability to move, coordinate and balance. It is also great to teach yourself how to do each movement as every body is different, as I am tall and lanky I often found kata a little harder due to the fast transitions in long stances for example. On your second point re: sparring partner for applications, we also train bunkai which does exactly that. You can look for " kata bunkai kumite" to see if you're interested.
The object is to practice the Kata movements many thousands of times over and over until those movements are like breathing and embedded in your consciousness, and you no longer need to think what your next strike or block will be. Then, in a fight, you employ those ingrained movements in free form, responding to your opponents movements. Many people mistakenly believe that these movements that are planned out in the Kata are carried out exactly the same in a real fight. The Kata is a teaching construct masters created to teach the movements that are effective. In a real fight you would probably use moves, kicks and punches from many different Katas at the same time.
haha Thank you for keeping an open mind. In science it is called training muscle memory. Its application is called Bunkai.
After much practice you may find yourself reacting to real world physical stimuli differently (beyond fighting); it becomes automatic and you are perceived by others as being super fast.
The training and drilling of kata over and over is important in creating muscle memory. HARD sparring/genuine competition is required in traditional styles to gain experience and see where your defencies are in a "real" setting. Reaction time and speed is important in the real world. Kata is important, but sparring might be even more so....
なんとレベルの高い道場でしょう。
The style and form are similar to Chinese Southern Style called NGO CHO.
What is this style called?
Can you put eng sub?
M.Jai white uses the same Kata as the girl in never back down :)
What is the difference between them
I've been learning sport. I thought it was traditional. 😔
Why not both ways?
Suparinpei after 30 years, and Kururunfa after 25 years *cries*
Yes yes yes traditional good good good
Was that second kata sanchin? Looked awfully familiar to me :D
If you had to guess at it being Sanchin then it wasn't true to form.
No
Lol! In this dojo, whether traditional or sports, I wouldn’t want to be at the other end of either of their punches or kicks, that’s for sure!!
Interesting, but I don't understand what you mean under "traditional" and "competitional" kata. I see only old and young man perfoming kata. Of course, young people perfoming kata in more beautiful and fluent way, because they are young. In that case, I don't understand this "traditional" and "sport" kata, because they are same. The only difference between them is the age of practitioner
Taira Sensei everytime for me, classical Kata.
Sport Karate lost most of real essence of karate.
I, personally, believe that sportkarate and especially the Kata have no soul. 😥
But it does help athletic abilities.
伝統と競技といっても宮城長順先生の若い頃の弟子と晩年の弟子で動きが違うわけで。
動画の競技の方は...まあ高校生なんで色々違ってますけど今の全空連剛柔会は晩年の弟子だった宮里栄一先生、伊波康進先生が学んだものがベース。それぞれの八段範士レベルの方であれば、伝統と競技というより兄弟みたいなものだと思います
I studied Goju-ryu up to Black Belt, and it's a very pretty art.
But I was looking for knowledge of how to fight successfully. I got that knowledge in Wing Chun, and that knowledge has saved me on numerous occasions.
Can someone knowledgeable tell me the purpose of the hip contraction (?) as Ryuhei Yagi inhales during suparrinpei?
its goju's way of keeping the lower ab muscles contracted
It alligns the body so that the next movement can have the hips power behind it....
I prefer the traditional kata.
非常に興味深いです。
競技形は、足の幅も広めで見せる形ですね。
形と型の差が分かりますね。
I like the traditional better fast and powerful. I remember when I was a white belt and a black belt was compared to me. Yes I had a lot to learn and the black belt had better form and of course experience and looked beautiful and even when I watch it now 25 years later I find it boring in my opinion. Always been interested in self defence that is more effective
Would it be possible to see Bunkai from these Kata?
Many thanks.
UA-cam: [kata name] bunkai
@@_.-Smokelo-._ I would prefer to see these Goju Ryu's master's interpretation.
Was the second guys suit breathing on its own or am I seeing things...tell me I'm not seeing things
You're seeing him closing his hip hinge by tightening his glutes. It's taught in Goju-ryu.
To be fair, there are too many Karate styles: Goju-ryu, Shotokan, Wado-ryu, Shinto-ryu, Isshin-ryu, etc. And each of them has a different version to the same kata. Sport Karate is supposed to somehow find something all of them can agree on. So clearly, one kata inherits characteristics of it in each style's version, which makes disciple of a certain style feel weird. Shotokan guys say: "Hey, you're not suppose to make a step like that", Goju-ryu guys say: "Your pace is all wrong", but to unify Karate with so many different schools, it's something we have to somehow accept.
@Sean Francis Waters Lancaster I understand and pretty much agree with your point. I'm not against the idea of each style having their own variation of certain katas, I even encourage the variety of styles to some degree.
But for a Karate disciple to be able to compete with others regardless of which style they are (in short: sport Karate), I think a "general" one with the characteristics of each styles' variations is a need. You know, there are... like... 30+ official Karate styles, and you cannot hope for the 5 judges to know every variations of kata systems of those 30+ styles.
"Goju-ryu, Shotokan, Wado-ryu, Shinto-ryu, Isshin-ryu, etc. And each of them has a different version to the same kata." No, not really. Some kata are practiced through several styles, but Goju ryu and Shotokan, for example, don't share any kata that I'm aware of.
"to unify Karate with so many different schools" Why do that?
@@TKDLION Don't know if Goju-ryu share any kata with Shotokan, but I know Shotokan does share some katas with Wado-ryu, Shito-ryu, Kyokushin, etc. I think Goju-ryu also shares some katas with other styles, either they are Shotokan or different styles.
The second point "to unify Karate styles", I've already explained myself in my previous comment towards Sean Francis Waters Lancaster. You can read it there and feedback if you find something you don't agree on.
@@shazamsakazaki What I mean is that the kata section of tournaments seems pointless to me. Kata were not devised with exhibition in mind. When someone learns a kata or a variation of a kata which was created solely to be performed in competition, is this really karate anymore?
@@TKDLION So you're against tournaments? Or you're against the sport Katas? Well, that depends on your mindset I think.
It seems like the higher up of the schools, despite the fact that none of them really like the sport versions of their katas, they also have accepted them in some ways.
If they were to detest them so much, they would have created their own associations and tournaments where they can compete with their traditional Katas (like Shotokan has their own JKA and Kyokushin has their own tournaments), instead of letting their grand children learn the sport versions.
So that's mean they change to just look good??
3:30
Is he said Qi
He said Ki, but the concept is the same. Just Chinese word translated into Japanese
琉球弁わかんねーと思ったら、英語だった件
I wonder why the Okinawan Karate in this video is involved in tournaments. It just loses it's essence.
You know everything commercialized eventually. Sometimes tournaments are for certain people and work out for them. There is something for everyone.
Vive le Guju ryu...!!!
Oss
✅✅✅✅✅
私は伝統派ではないので分からないのですが、全空連の指定型ってあるじゃないですか？
あれは、4大流派の細かい型の違いはとりあえず脇に置いておいて、この型はこういう動きにしよう、こういう風に決めよう、大会では連名で指定された動きで演武しなさいよ、というものだと解釈していますが、指定型の動きの決定権って誰にあるんでしょうか？
指定型を演武するんじゃなくて、各流派ごとのカラーを出した方が型試合は盛り上がるし面白いと思うのですが。
traditional kururunfa is more shito ryu version! ;)
Como alguém da deslike nesse vídeo???
我要打十个
The traditional one is better ....
Traditional is original
It's a shame most people focus on "Sport" Kata nowadays. Even here in Japan, you can win Kata tournaments with flashy speed, slapping your gi, making noises, even if your are cutting corners, not completing the Kime 決め, dodgy stances. The judges look a big tired sometimes and at the amateur level, judges are observing both at the same time. The one that stands out wins.
Traditional kata looks more competitive.
closed captions for english viewers
the 3rd kid on the right cant stand still
But the real fight kata is useless I am right or not please tell it is my experience about kata especially shotokan kata
hmm.. i study modern muay thai but ..i never really studied traditional martial arts myself.. but i shouldn't say kata is useless.. i mean.. in my point of view kata is like a "mini" shadow boxing.. but unlike shadow boxing which you can move however you want of how you imagined the way your imaginary opponent is moving. Kata is like a 1 form for 1 strike meaning there are already predetermined moves and its course of action,. pretty same as shadow boxing right? well its only my opinion though.
I would say that kata is almost useless for self defence and fighting IF only trained solo. Kata can be useful when broken down, drilled with a partner and applied in live sparring :)
ua-cam.com/video/uxyTqjUeMTU/v-deo.html
Intindihin mo lang mabuti at aralin ang napapaloob jan sa kata malaki maitutulung nyan pagdating sa atual...
Kata is NOT there to teach you how to fight. It is to reinforce concepts in solo practice.
The kata by itself with no understanding is useless.
Add bunkai for understanding.
Break apart kata and work in different scenarios/drills like you would for grappling.
Then what ever you put in your tool bag is useful.
Useless cameraman. Missed the kata.
Very useless..
The disappointment on Master Sadayuki Taira's face lol
Ladies and gentlemen, ppl’s, what are we talking about here? Ffs, traditional vs sport-competition, kata is kata. Everyone who try to change kata for any reason dont understand the kata.
If I open a school it's going to be traditional, the movie Tiger Claws is on UA-cam and a Kung Fu sifu says it's not what you do but what you look like shows the problem with karate and kung fu today
上級者の方々の形は美事ですね。
形を披露してるときのピーンとした空気感はなんとも言えません
何かオーラ的なのが出てそう。
Always thought kata competitions should make it mandatory to do a demonstration on bunkai as well as the kata and be judged on practicality
They do that with team kata. Pretty hard to demonstrate bunkai solo lol
Also lay person do not understand as you learn the traditional kata is anatomically precise for each strike and so deadly you can not practice with any one you could kill them
Traditional karate dancing
Sport? Kata! 🐂
Meitoku Yagi was not one of the 3 Miyagi's students who were allowed by Miyagi sensei to open a Goju Ryu's school through Japan. Those 3 students were : Seiko Higa (who also studied from the same sensei as Miyagi : Sensei Higaonna Kanryo), Jinnan Shinzato, and Jinsei Kamiya. All the others are usurpers.
Seiko Higa is the most legitimate one, and his inheritor is Sensei Tetsuhiro Hokama from Okinawa, the actual only one who is 10th Dan Hanshi over the world.
I can add one thing : in the first 5 seconds of the video, we can see Meitetsu Yagi executing a Shotokan/Wado-Ryu kata...
I can tell you that the first executed kata (subtitled Suparrinpei is from Hakutsuru-ken, an advanced style inherited from Chinese martial arts (from White Crane style)
You do know that Tetsuhiro Hokama only studied with Seiko Higa as a teenager for about a year right? The next president of the kokusai karate kobudo renmei that Seiko Higa founded was Choboku Takamine. Higa's son, Seikichi Higa inherited the Shodokan dojo. Hokama's kata look nothing like what is practiced in the Shodokan.
@@KobukanGojuRyu Just one thing or two :
- Hokama is his first name, so don't be too familiar
- Tetsuhiro's knowledge is not only relative to Goju Ryu. After Seiko Higa's death, he continued Goju Ryu under Seiko Fukushi (Seiko Higa's right hand and first instructor)
- hé has founded the Okinawa Gojuryu Karate Kobudo Kenshikai, and is known through entire world for that, but only with a 1-year studying Goju Ryu you said ? He started Goju Ryu when he was 16 under Chiyokutani Irashi sensei and has never stopped until now.
Stop trolling when you're on the edge...
@@KobukanGojuRyu One thing more: Tetsuhiro Hokama is the 10th Dan Hanshi for Karate and Kobudo (Red belt). He's the highest graded karateka on Earth, and he's the presidentof the Nihon Kobudo Kyokai association, which is the only one habilited to certifying the ancients japanese martial arts, like Miyagi's Goju Ryu. The direct lineage of Miyagi gave us Miyagi An'Ichi, the actual 10th Dan in Goju Ryu, and son's son's son's son's of Miyagi. But he's not the True one, according to Chojun Miyagi's will, who wanted to give succession to Seiko Higa who studied with the same Master : Higaonna Kanryo sensei. Hé studied under Miyagi for 38 years, until Miyagi's death. As said before, only 3 students were allowed to open à Goju Ryu dojo, and Seiko Higa was the true successor.
Actually Hokama is his last name, 外間 哲弘 . Last names are listed first in Japanese. I have trained in the Higa lineage for many years and know the who's who and the what's what. Hokama only studied for a year with Seiko Higa (and that is being generous). Yes he did continue to train with Seiko Fukuchi afterwards. He did not even inherit Fukuchi's organisation as that went to Iken Tokashiki after Seiko Fukuchi died and was renamed to the Gohakukai. Also the highest ranked karate-ka on earth? Sorry wrong again. There are several 10th dans in the Higa lineage. Look up Choyu Kiyuna sometime who was born in 1931 and spent nearly a decade training with Seiko Higa. He is still alive. Two other ten dans in Seiko Higa's organisation include Eiki Kurashita and Seitoku Matayoshi. Sorry, but your history is severely lacking if you think Hokama is the inheritor of Seiko Higa's Goju-Ryu. Not even close.
Hokama was a member of the Gohakukai for a few years after Seiko Fukuchi passed away, I even have footage of him from this period. However he eventually left to form his own kenshikai. It is not connected in anyway whatsoever to the organisation started by Seiko Higa. The current president is Zensei Gushiken. Seriously do some research instead of drinking whatever kool aid you have.
There's Traditional Karate Do Kata period; anything else is wkf or jumping kicking garbage