I never thought this was a problem, they could have picked him up the moment he arrived on earth and I would have shrugged and said time travel, but this does examplify the care the crew has for the show to go into this detail.
@@randymagnum6680 If it was only one timeline they traveled in, this would track. But it is not. Lots of other episodes of The Orville shows that time will split when something "new" happens in the past because of time travel. You probably still need some other person to be your grandfather, though.
I thought it was so cruel of Ed to stress to old Gordon that they would just go back and erase him, leaving him to hold his family and wonder when they would disappear. They could have just told him good bye and went back in time.
The fact they admitted that it was a mistake and were wling to fix their story is rather impressive in a time where it seams most people would yell scream and degrade people for pointing out a mistake. Only makes me hope for more from the Orville and shows they bot only care for the story but the fans too.
I agree - if this happened on a marvel movie they would invent a brand new rediculous sciencey sounding reason for the erorr and tell us we're all a bunch of idiots for not realizing that.
I'm still rooting for the Gordo who had a wife and kids. He said "this family is stronger than time" (or something like that), which I'm hoping will bring things full circle so he can get the love of his life and his kids back.
Thanks for this. I’m also impressed with Seth and co. for doing this. I love the earlier Trek series but they never really went back and fixed the previous continuity errors when they had the chance. I mean they fixed some of the special effects for Blu-ray but that’s where it stopped. This is very impressive.
Yeah, you have to remember how long it’s been since the good Star Trek(s) were out there. Not so easily fixable then. Not saying it’s easy now, but certainly less so then.
@@RavenKStudios ummm yes, I'm guessing the BR release has also been chopped up a bit too, to make it flow better. I was watching it on netflix (I'm guessing the BR version) and noticed the episode lengths varied wildly now. Some episodes are 5-6minutes shorter. (This is TNG i'm talking about)
So much respect for fixing the writing error. Though, I had really hoped it was on purpose so we'd have a reason to explore alternate universes created from the paradox.
So did I initially. It makes sense though. I teach (taught now) English and the student who pestered me in to watching it pointed this out to me the very last week of school. (In my defense, for not catching it, the school year was ending when I watched it so I was probably half wine drunk…because dealing with teenagers during a pandemic is fun. Also, I grew up in a Trekkie family who will barely forgive me for being a Star Wars fan… I’m still waiting for the pitch forks to come out when they find out I watch-and like-The Orville. I have to try to watch it later at night when I don’t think one of them are going to show up unannounced- as they are want to do-and burn me at the stake). Considering the kid barely graduated high school, I was pretty impressed that he pointed it out. We had a discussion about it being done on purpose, too (small town-he’s a neighbor in the same apartment complex as well). He insisted that it had to be a mistake because they had already set the precedent in the past with what happens when you screw around with a time line (also shocked the hell out of me when he pointed that out days before graduation…like maybe he had just decided to grow a brain at 18?). Next time I wrangle the 100 pound Lab “puppy” and the Beagle on a walk I’ll have to show him this (and yell at him to go to college because apparently he did a pretty good job at convincing everyone he wasn’t very smart-and he clearly he is. Little punk…I suspected).
The union could’ve formed a “Temporal Enforcement Agency: (TEA)” to handle stuff like this and occasionally be on the show to try and handle branching timelines caused by this initial incursion. (Yeah, like Timecop but more multi-versal) Imagine people having to take containment devices to stop branch universes from exploding out like tree roots that might potentially cause massive damage to the origin universe. While normally this group can do it on their own, sometimes they need Isaac’s calculation ability or the ship for…(reasons?) so they have to guest star. Just please no going back to the Titanic for ANYTHING!!! It’s been done to death.
@@turbopokey - I think they did something like that on both the ST Enterprise & ST Voyager series. They had (sort of) a group from the future that would try to fix timeline boo-boos. Made for some interesting episodes.
This isn't anything. George Lucas has been making numerous changes to Star Wars, even before the special editions in 97, and anime has had whole sequences reanimated and touched up from broadcast to blu-ray. This isn't a new phenomenon.
@@mainstreetsaint36 Just because it's not a new thing, doesn't make it a good thing. It's like how studios are now editing older movies or animation because some of the attitudes or content is now considered "problematic" by the perpetually offended - rather than it simply being seen as a product of its time and viewed accordingly. It might just be entertainment media, but I for one have an issue with rewriting things because some people might get offended nowadays.
@@img00 Could be worse, the response to the First Marx brothers movie was so underwhelming Groucho had the film destroyed. And not even as a tax write off.
I admit, I don’t think too deep about the stuff. I’m always grateful when other people catch it and pointed out to me. And I’m I’m kind of proud of the Orville for going back and fixing it.h I am also very grateful for your channel. Love the Contant, thank you for doing this.
I still like the solution I proposed back then. When they went down and got Gordon, they had him record the 6 month message and set it up with a delay so it would send at the correct date.
When I first saw this episode, I assumed that when Gordon got zapped by the machine that maybe he had a struggle within himself and one version of him got sent back in time while another version of him got shot into the future since he was so excited about getting that sandwich. I thought they weren't going to be able to successfully bring the past version of him back, and that they'd have to call the mission quits, only to find him appear along with the sandwich a couple of months later. 😂
I wasn't confused, I knew they created a Paradox, but I figured Multiversal string theory would allow for Dad-Gordon to keep his timeline and give us room for more time space hi-jinks when other Gordons show up in another season.
@@joemariotti3935 I don't mind that it got a little more serious, I do miss some of, it but with shows like Lower Decks handling it he more slapstick aspects of a Trek-like universe and the amount of money being put behind New Horizons I felt like it made sense to dial it back a little and let the humor come naturally from the characters own personalities. Also it was a chance to let them stretch their acting chops.
I prefer the original, and I'm grateful for you JP for preserving that and explaining the change. We humans forget stuff so easily and this is one thing I want to keep in my own head-cannon. I like the notion that there is a version of Gordon on an alternate timeline that got to live his life with the woman he fell in love with despite their having been born centuries apart from each other. Gordon deserves his happy ending!
Absolutely! In fact, that subtle detail, which does not look like a mistake from the writers, but from the characters, was what made this episode so perfect to me, knowing that they didn't even realized their own mistake once they got Gordon back and a version of him was still happy with his new family somewhere. What a f*'n waste.
Yeah, I just assumed they did a timeline switcheroo. Past Gordon goes on living with his family along with a version of the Orville that has no Gordon and assumes he died having never received a message from the past. Our Orville essentially grabbed THEIR Gordon who is no longer being looked for, thus solving the paradox.
In my imagination, the other timeline still exists. In fact, Multiverse theory says it MUST exist. And the alternate timeline is where Gordon ends up happy.
Orville seems to be implying that there is only one Universe, otherwise it wouldn't have mattered if Gordon went back in time. They could have just left that version of events carry on, and get an early version of him back with them.
I thought the same thing. I told my wife about the paradox when we first watched that episode but she didn’t care hahaha. Nice to see that they fixed that. However, wasn’t there another paradox back in season 1 when they blow up that black hole? I mean the lady from the future said that the entire crew died in that black matter storm. If that was true than by destroying the black hole would have prevented her from coming back and saving them which would mean that they wouldn’t have been alive to destroy the black hole in the first place.
I think it's a shrodingers cat situation, and the black hole was the box. While the black hole existed the orville was able to be in 2 states at once, saved by the future lady (alive cat) even though that future relied on them being destroyed (dead cat). As soon as they destroyed the black hole, they opened the box and picked (alive cat) even though it was contradictory to the original linear flow of time. When you've got to weave 2 different things into one thing, there will be elements of both poking through, like shot cotton. You might have started out with red and yellow, but once they're stuck together you've got yourself a shade of orange even if you can still see parts of the individual red and yellow threads.
Man this show is impressive!! It quickly transformed into a masterpiece, and their attention to detail or even fixing an issue shows they care. I love the intricate storylines and really do care about the characters ❤
I got news for you JP; There are millions (or is it billions or trillions... Oh hell. Let's just go with an infinite number) of timelines out there, none of which can be deleted or discontinued. All this means is that there are at least two The Orville universes now; one where Gordon sent his message after six months and one where he sent it after three months. And then there are the uncountable number of variations that result from these differences.
I just wonder if they will include the prior version as an "extra" on the future DVD/Blu-ray release? Fans would love to compare to get a real appreciation for the perils and pitfalls of time travel scifi, in general. Kudos to J.P. for providing a stellar platform to discuss Orville "what ifs"!
That is cool! Although I wished the explored the multiple time lines or dimensions. 1 thing I never understood, you lterally saw him get pushed back and then split into several versions! This to me means there are several versions of him.
I totally missed that. I was too busy focused on what dicks they were by going back with Talla to strong arm Gordon into going back with them in front of his wife and son. Knowing they could just go back in time before he got married they could have done that anyway without this heartbreaking and fearsome intrusion.
I didn’t catch it because I was too focused on how awful they treated the Gordon who had married and had a family and basically told them they were wiping all of them from existence. Ed could have just got up and said, “All right. You win. I just hope you’re happy with the future you’ve created,” or something like that. Kelly would challenge him after they were alone and then he could say they were going back to get him further in the past. Perhaps this sets up an alternate timeline story for season four though with a resentful Gordon.
Bummer. I’m impressed they made the effort to fix the mistake, but I would rather have seen an episode down the road where the crew has to deal with it.
Thanks for this. I totally missed this when I watched it the first time. I guess I am just a big fan. It is great that they took the time to fix the error. Kudos to everyone who spotted that and let them know.
I honestly wish they explored a timeline where they picked up Gordon and his wife instead of going even further back in time and picking him up when he first arrived. He seemed so happy, it was heartbreaking.
Plus if they did take 2025 Gordon and his family, they would also have to turn him in for breaking temporal law and he'd probably spend a significant portion, if not the majority of his life in prison.
This was easily my favorite episode of any television show in a very long time. We need some renewal news! This show is just too good not to keep going
I never thought it was a writers mistake. Thought there was going to be some future episode where maybe Gordon finds the message the Orville heard and Gordon goes "Oh. Oh. I never sent a message." and go from there. That would've been better. I feel a bit cheated. Oh well.
I haven’t watched the fixed version yet. I can say that the timeline thing didn’t bother me at all, I figured they’d work it all out in future episodes. The only thing that bothered me (a lot) was how cold Ed, Kelly and Talla were towards Gordon and his whole relationship with Laura… both in the original episode when he first met her, and especially in this episode when he was left in the past for 10 years and started a family with her. Their emotionless attitude toward that relationship seemed so… weird!
Yeah, that was the very first episode that pushed me away from those characters, and I haven't been able to look at them the same way since. It was downright disgusting how cruel they were.
That wasn't strange at all. What Gordon did was reprehensible. It could have had disastrous consequences, and he was really lucky it didn't. His relationship was incredibly insignificant compared to the imminent need to get him out and probably put him in prison for the rest of his life. But thankfully they were able to get him before he did it, so he didn't have to go to prison. Still, everyone now knows that Gordon is capable of that sort of thing so really makes the audience and the crew look at him in a new way.
@@ilithios99 That’s true, but I’m not talking about the anger or disappointment in their tone at what he did timeline wise. Their underlying lack of empathy or even a shred of tolerance for his feelings about Laura at all is what I’m talking about. It was probably more apparent back when Laura was just a holographic compilation of what he found on her phone from the past, which didn’t have any timeline consequences other than making him temporarily happy. Their attitude was distain for him… or even hollow, even for that. I just felt that it seemed quite uncharacteristic of them, or at least where their characters were otherwise being developed as.
My wife and I literally stopped watching the show because of that episode. It made us hate everybody and the fact that at the end of it they were all good, was just so messed up... we tried watching the next episode but just found ourselves not really wanting to return to the characters that would do their friend dirty like that... so sadly we never finished the season... and probably won't circle back for quite a while.
It isn't that they didn't have empathy. They knew what they had to do and there was no way it could go in Gordon's favor. They also know that once they set everything right, he won't remember it. It would have never happened. Showing empathy wouldn't have gotten them anywhere. It may have made things more difficult.
I still don't understand why it would be a paradox: 1.) Gordon goes back in time. 2.) Gordon sends the message six months after arriving. 3.) The Orville goes back to get him and misses by ten years. 4.) That Gordon does not want to leave, so the crew goes back in time again. 5.) They get Gordon before he sent them the message that he was there in the first place, hence, 'paradox.' I don't see it as a paradox, however, because getting Gordon eliminated the need for him to send the message. The Orville even returned to an altered future (in that they took the long way) so they didn't even time travel back instantaneously. There's a whole maze of problems associated with that, not least of which being there would have to exist two Orvilles (and everyone on The Orville) for some number of decades. The paradox seems to be that present Orville could not get a message that Gordon did not send, but I see no reason for that to be true. Just like Kelly and Ed remember the Gordon from 2025 (and everyone on the ship remembering what they were doing in 2025) everyone would remember that Gordon sent the message before they went back in time. The event happened and will have always happened; it just didn't happen in the current timeline. Just like Gordon didn't get married in the current timeline, but everyone except Gordon remembers him doing so. In effect, I think the, 'Paradox,' self-corrects. He never sent the message, but only because there was no longer a need to.
I was on your side, but after some thought, they have shown that altering a timeline erases the timeline. For example when Kelly didn't go on a date with Ed, and then did. Timeline erased, then recreated. So if they got Gordon before the message, it would have erased him having sent the message.
@@speersword165 I agree with that, but he didn't need to send it because they already had him anyway and took the long way back. If they had jumped forward in time again, then there could be a problem. In effect, they didn't actually time travel back; they simply existed.
@@brandonjames412 I think the reason they had to retcon it though, is because they would have picked him up before the message, which would erase the message, which would erase the Gordon they had, and have him reappear before they got them? I don't, time travel.
@@speersword165 Maybe; I suppose none of us really know. I may well be attributing too much importance to his physical existence at the point they originally picked him up (before the message was sent) and then him not sending the message, as you point out, would negate him from existence from that point forward....or something. Of course, they could have always just done the hop around in space thing (as they did to get back) so that he goes back down and just sends the message even though they already have him.
As a frame of ref, in Starfleet they are trained to 'go to ground' if they get stuck in the past. All of them are trained in survival skills, so they could literally go live in the mountains with no human contact which is what most 'Time Laws' would require so as to avoid any chance of contamination of the timeline
I noticed it, but I put a lampshade on it. I'm glad they fixed it, and it's nice we live in an era where shows on streaming services can edit things easily like that.
This was amazing information. I do appreciate learning of these things. And I thank you because this episode truly touched my heart. I was so heartbroken knowing that he was not able to keep his family. but I totally understood the reason why. despite this little glitch, Oroville rocks forever.
I had an idea for a fanfic episode based on this called "Stronger Than Time." In the episode, a scientist from the Future with 4th dimensional thinking travels back in time to stop Krill terrorists from altering history. He reveals that he, Charlie and others like them who could think in 4D can do so because of the “antero-temporal” genes from future people…like Gordon, who fathered the family that would lead to Charlie being born. He further explains that *both* timelines (Gordon left and Gordon stayed) exist as a *single* timeline because of a “Schrodinger's Cat” effect, since they established how perception can affect time travel: All timelines exist if nobody in the present is witnessing them.
The Orville originally hosed the timeline twice: not being destroyed in season 1 because they were saved by Charlize Theron and at the end of season 2 Kelly 1.0 may have had her memory of the future erased but there are still subtle changes. (Explaining Isaac's altered appearance for example.) So they shouldn't have bothered 'fixing' Gordon's rescue. Also just on principle I don't like fudging with already released episodes and movies - stinks of SW special editions. (Maybe the original and revised episodes are themselves different timelines!)
Any time travel instantly creates paradoxes no matter what because some matter or energy always gets out of sync. So I just always assume that there are an near infinite number of branching paradoxes even with just a single photon go astray.
I didn't watch the "fix". I saw the original. Honestly loved the new path they took toward something more serious but keeping the funny. I hope there will be more.
I never even noticed the defect in the first place. However, there is another intriguing lose end. Gordon’s obituary was in the Orville’s database all along. That means that his life in the 21st century was part of the prime timeline and that timeline still exists. When they picked up 3-month Gordon, they created a new timeline separate from their own.
I thought the original message said he has sent this to auto (garbled in the static) so never noticed as I just assumed the beacon was just sending continuously. lol
I only just recently saw this episode so I wasn’t aware it originally had different times but the ADR on Lamar changing it to “four months” was very obvious. Now I know why!
" ... was I confused about Gordon when I watched the original version of the episode ... ?" ... hell no ... I'm confused all the time ... it made perfect sense.
The episode called “Pria” ended with a paradox as well. They closed the wormhole on there time end. But by doing that, Pria never came back to there time and they never learned that the wormhole even existed. So they not knowing about it never went there to close it. And they were than back where they started. Time travel science fiction is pain in the ass to get right.
This episode really cemented it for me that Ed and Kelly are the real villains of The Orville universe. They already indicated by their research in their present that Gordon living a happy life in the past had pretty much zero effect on the timeline. Yet they still went back and removed his relationship and his children’s existence. Worse yet, they had Gordon seem like he was happy about the way they handled it in the end.
i agree what i hate even more is how they r technically hypocrites. in season 1 episode 5 prea, they were ment to die in a dark matter storm and were saved by prea who wanted to sell them and ship to a collector. after escaping and going back to theyre time they contiune without a care in the world and contiune to change the timeline with every action they took. they were by law ment to do as gordon did and lay low and live the rest of they lives not interferring but they didnt. u could argue since they arent from the future and its theyre present they r fine but they know that they r ment to be dead and r changing the future coz it doesnt suit them. what i hate even more is they bring back gordon and make it sound like they r saving him like "yea thx for erasing my loving family that i was happy with" and he had no problems with it like WTF!. Ed and Kelly constantly break rules when it suits them and r hypocrites about it all the time to others when they break rules but when its them its like my bad or it was the right thing for them.
I must have misheard it originally, I thought when Lamar said they were late by x months, he was referring to the temporal coordinates Gordon gave them, which would have been based on where and when he was at time of transmission Great attention to detail
I bet the original intention was for John to say they arrived a month after the message was sent out, making it seven months since Gordon arrived. But I'm impressed they actually went back and fixed it.
When you watch the episode again, look just as Gordon tries to shoot the Anti-Banana Ray. Gordon literally is split into six or seven Gordons. It only lasts for two seconds, but you can clearly see it.
Well, that makes a bit more sense. I figured the writers originally meant the Orville went back to a month after the message was sent, but they goofed and referred to his arrival instead.
Why did they make it 3 and 4 months, not 5 and six for instancy? Lip sync? In any case, the Gordon with a family just got to complete his life on his own timeline, right? Perhaps there's even one that sent the message and never got picked up at all.
I saw this episode last night, on Star+. And it still has the original mistake, which I spotted and left me thinking, which is how I came upon this video.
What a weird thing to do. I would've been fine with alternate realities. Alternate realities means there's a 10 year older version of Gordon still out there with his wife and kid. It still kind of doesn't fix the problem. There's still a paradox from Orville's relative time line. They needed to do 2 time jumps towards the past. The second jump's reason is negated because that means they would never have met the version of Gordon that had a family prompting them to make the second jump if they picked up Gordon even further down the line. If they only made one jump then its fine. But they made two.
The problem with this whole thing is that the fact is the message and his six month stay was slowly but surely changing the timeline not instantly and something from a timeline that didn’t exist could still be remembered. This can be seen in the fact that past Kelly could remember and change back the proper timeline even though it didn’t exist and couldn’t have brought her to the future. If the temporal laws worked like you think than she would have forgotten the future as soon she started changing things.
That was a result of the alternate timeline they had to fix. Look up "A Sound of Thunder" by Ray Bradbury (the short story, not the crap movie) to see the ramifications of what a single small change can do to a timeline. By rights the world of the Orville should have abeen completely different to normal because of Gordon's effect on the timeline.
I like the idea of multiple timelines regardless. I hope family man Gordon and his, well, family live on in their own timeline. They deserve to be happy.
Cool. Fixes it anyways. Made me think when I saw this. Made me wonder how they would handle the characters going back in time to fix a change in the timeline, and they run into someone trying to stop them, because the changes made things better in the future in someway the main characters didn't have time to notice.
If the Orville got a 4th season this would be a great plot point to revisit, basically the plot of the episode is that they have to plop Gordon back in time again to correct the timeline so that he sends the message but the government is on to Gordon and he has to take a series of risks trusting in the thread of causality that got him there to evade capture
The Orville went back to the future through normal space after Gordon was on ancient Earth for four months. He is bound to have done things that changed details, and changes in the details eventually become great changes in events. Without some timey-whimey time travel handwaving the future that the 'go back to' is one derived from the universe in which Gordon spent four months on Earth, producing lots of little changes. The future they arrive in should have been 'different', maybe still with a Planetary Union, but with no record of the Orville or its crew. (After a number of adventures their friends from the planet where time is weird help them back to their original timeline, and also show them the timeline that the Gordon who was on Earth for years produced.)
I loved this episode but had a crazy theory that it WOULD create multiple timelines, and in this timeline, the Gordon who wanted to preserve his family ended up downloading his and his family's minds into robots...unwittingly creating the Kaylons. The show quickly squashed this craziness in upcoming episodes, and it's probably better that we didn't see multiple timelines, but it was a fun thought.
Oh wow…..I didn’t know they adjusted it until just now. I just figured Gordon had his future self to thank, but actually think as I’m writing, the fix was necessary to avoid a paradox. If they picked him up before he sent the message, he never would have sent the message to begin with. In the end, the sandwich did show up 3 months later, lol.
I thought it was a fun intentional detail. It would have been a cool way of preserving the timeline where Gordon got to live out his life on Earth while still having him rejoin the Orville. Honestly a little bit of a shame that it didnt turn out to be that way
It's fully understandable, but at the same time he did alter history. It really just depends on if Orville has one timeline where Gordon changing things can have disastrous effects, or if it's a multiverse setting, in which case Gordon being back there makes no difference to anything as it all exists in another Universe.
Help me keep Talking about The Orville below:
PATREON:
tinyurl.com/TheOrvilleGreenlight
PAYPAL:
tinyurl.com/2p8ex877
Lol
I never thought this was a problem, they could have picked him up the moment he arrived on earth and I would have shrugged and said time travel, but this does examplify the care the crew has for the show to go into this detail.
I'm with you, it's time travel so they just tell Gordon they got him before he sent his message, it didn't alter anything, I mean it's time travel...
@@randymagnum6680 If it was only one timeline they traveled in, this would track.
But it is not. Lots of other episodes of The Orville shows that time will split when something "new" happens in the past because of time travel. You probably still need some other person to be your grandfather, though.
I thought it was so cruel of Ed to stress to old Gordon that they would just go back and erase him, leaving him to hold his family and wonder when they would disappear. They could have just told him good bye and went back in time.
It was only a problem because it created a paradox there was still a timeline where he sent a message and that lead to old Gordon and his family
@@selalewow where you on Reddit when this episode dropped? It was crazy
The fact they admitted that it was a mistake and were wling to fix their story is rather impressive in a time where it seams most people would yell scream and degrade people for pointing out a mistake. Only makes me hope for more from the Orville and shows they bot only care for the story but the fans too.
I agree - if this happened on a marvel movie they would invent a brand new rediculous sciencey sounding reason for the erorr and tell us we're all a bunch of idiots for not realizing that.
@@DrWuzer you mean the old: "Only twitter manbabies care about stuff like that. Now shut up and prepare to enjoy new content, you bigots!"
I'm sure it was just a misprint in the script. LOL
I'm still rooting for the Gordo who had a wife and kids. He said "this family is stronger than time" (or something like that), which I'm hoping will bring things full circle so he can get the love of his life and his kids back.
Thanks for this. I’m also impressed with Seth and co. for doing this. I love the earlier Trek series but they never really went back and fixed the previous continuity errors when they had the chance. I mean they fixed some of the special effects for Blu-ray but that’s where it stopped. This is very impressive.
it is much easier to do it with streaming show.
Yeah, you have to remember how long it’s been since the good Star Trek(s) were out there. Not so easily fixable then. Not saying it’s easy now, but certainly less so then.
@@RavenKStudios ummm yes, I'm guessing the BR release has also been chopped up a bit too, to make it flow better. I was watching it on netflix (I'm guessing the BR version) and noticed the episode lengths varied wildly now. Some episodes are 5-6minutes shorter. (This is TNG i'm talking about)
So much respect for fixing the writing error.
Though, I had really hoped it was on purpose so we'd have a reason to explore alternate universes created from the paradox.
So did I initially. It makes sense though. I teach (taught now) English and the student who pestered me in to watching it pointed this out to me the very last week of school. (In my defense, for not catching it, the school year was ending when I watched it so
I was probably half wine drunk…because dealing with teenagers during a pandemic is fun. Also, I grew up in a Trekkie family who will barely forgive me for being a Star Wars fan… I’m still waiting for the pitch forks to come out when they find out I watch-and like-The Orville. I have to try to watch it later at night when I don’t think one of them are going to show up unannounced- as they are want to do-and burn me at the stake). Considering the kid barely graduated high school, I was pretty impressed that he pointed it out. We had a discussion about it being done on purpose, too (small town-he’s a neighbor in the same apartment complex as well). He insisted that it had to be a mistake because they had already set the precedent in the past with what happens when you screw around with a time line (also shocked the hell out of me when he pointed that out days before graduation…like maybe he had just decided to grow a brain at 18?). Next time I wrangle the 100 pound Lab “puppy” and the Beagle on a walk I’ll have to show him this (and yell at him to go to college because apparently he did a pretty good job at convincing everyone he wasn’t very smart-and he clearly he is. Little punk…I suspected).
@@MountainPearls Why did your family care if you were a Trekkie. What harm does it to do them or anyone?
@@MountainPearls Don't worry, pitchforks won't come out for you liking The Orville. Most people think it's a better Trek than the current Trek.
The union could’ve formed a “Temporal Enforcement Agency: (TEA)” to handle stuff like this and occasionally be on the show to try and handle branching timelines caused by this initial incursion. (Yeah, like Timecop but more multi-versal)
Imagine people having to take containment devices to stop branch universes from exploding out like tree roots that might potentially cause massive damage to the origin universe. While normally this group can do it on their own, sometimes they need Isaac’s calculation ability or the ship for…(reasons?) so they have to guest star. Just please no going back to the Titanic for ANYTHING!!! It’s been done to death.
@@turbopokey - I think they did something like that on both the ST Enterprise & ST Voyager series. They had (sort of) a group from the future that would try to fix timeline boo-boos. Made for some interesting episodes.
Super creepy that our future favorite shows won't just exist, they will be open to being changed at the creator's/owner's whims at any time.
This isn't anything. George Lucas has been making numerous changes to Star Wars, even before the special editions in 97, and anime has had whole sequences reanimated and touched up from broadcast to blu-ray. This isn't a new phenomenon.
@@mainstreetsaint36 Just because it's not a new thing, doesn't make it a good thing.
It's like how studios are now editing older movies or animation because some of the attitudes or content is now considered "problematic" by the perpetually offended - rather than it simply being seen as a product of its time and viewed accordingly.
It might just be entertainment media, but I for one have an issue with rewriting things because some people might get offended nowadays.
@@img00 Could be worse, the response to the First Marx brothers movie was so underwhelming Groucho had the film destroyed. And not even as a tax write off.
Never noticed it, but glad they care enough to fix it.
I admit, I don’t think too deep about the stuff. I’m always grateful when other people catch it and pointed out to me. And I’m I’m kind of proud of the Orville for going back and fixing it.h
I am also very grateful for your channel. Love the Contant, thank you for doing this.
I still like the solution I proposed back then. When they went down and got Gordon, they had him record the 6 month message and set it up with a delay so it would send at the correct date.
There's a special name for that kind of paradox, was an entire movie made about it, Predestination.
When I first saw this episode, I assumed that when Gordon got zapped by the machine that maybe he had a struggle within himself and one version of him got sent back in time while another version of him got shot into the future since he was so excited about getting that sandwich. I thought they weren't going to be able to successfully bring the past version of him back, and that they'd have to call the mission quits, only to find him appear along with the sandwich a couple of months later. 😂
Conclusive proof that The Orville needs JP as a sci-fi consultant 🖖
Never noticed but definitely appreciate the fix. That’s stellar work and shows a care rarely seen these days. Kudos to the ones who made the edits.
I wasn't confused, I knew they created a Paradox, but I figured Multiversal string theory would allow for Dad-Gordon to keep his timeline and give us room for more time space hi-jinks when other Gordons show up in another season.
I really wish there still were some hi-jinks going on...show is too serious now imo.
@@joemariotti3935 I don't mind that it got a little more serious, I do miss some of, it but with shows like Lower Decks handling it he more slapstick aspects of a Trek-like universe and the amount of money being put behind New Horizons I felt like it made sense to dial it back a little and let the humor come naturally from the characters own personalities. Also it was a chance to let them stretch their acting chops.
@@joemariotti3935 Totally agree!! This season was so much less fun than 1 and 2.
I prefer the original, and I'm grateful for you JP for preserving that and explaining the change. We humans forget stuff so easily and this is one thing I want to keep in my own head-cannon. I like the notion that there is a version of Gordon on an alternate timeline that got to live his life with the woman he fell in love with despite their having been born centuries apart from each other. Gordon deserves his happy ending!
I love this!
no both versions would not have had him meet her and marry her.
YES, thank you.
Absolutely! In fact, that subtle detail, which does not look like a mistake from the writers, but from the characters, was what made this episode so perfect to me, knowing that they didn't even realized their own mistake once they got Gordon back and a version of him was still happy with his new family somewhere. What a f*'n waste.
Yeah, I just assumed they did a timeline switcheroo. Past Gordon goes on living with his family along with a version of the Orville that has no Gordon and assumes he died having never received a message from the past. Our Orville essentially grabbed THEIR Gordon who is no longer being looked for, thus solving the paradox.
In my imagination, the other timeline still exists. In fact, Multiverse theory says it MUST exist. And the alternate timeline is where Gordon ends up happy.
Orville seems to be implying that there is only one Universe, otherwise it wouldn't have mattered if Gordon went back in time. They could have just left that version of events carry on, and get an early version of him back with them.
I thought the same thing. I told my wife about the paradox when we first watched that episode but she didn’t care hahaha. Nice to see that they fixed that. However, wasn’t there another paradox back in season 1 when they blow up that black hole? I mean the lady from the future said that the entire crew died in that black matter storm. If that was true than by destroying the black hole would have prevented her from coming back and saving them which would mean that they wouldn’t have been alive to destroy the black hole in the first place.
I think it's a shrodingers cat situation, and the black hole was the box. While the black hole existed the orville was able to be in 2 states at once, saved by the future lady (alive cat) even though that future relied on them being destroyed (dead cat). As soon as they destroyed the black hole, they opened the box and picked (alive cat) even though it was contradictory to the original linear flow of time.
When you've got to weave 2 different things into one thing, there will be elements of both poking through, like shot cotton. You might have started out with red and yellow, but once they're stuck together you've got yourself a shade of orange even if you can still see parts of the individual red and yellow threads.
Man this show is impressive!! It quickly transformed into a masterpiece, and their attention to detail or even fixing an issue shows they care. I love the intricate storylines and really do care about the characters ❤
We NEED at Least 5 Seasons of this FANTASTIC show.
You forgot a 0 after the 5.
6 seasons and a movie
@@NeroLeMorte Seven Seasons and a Movie Trilogy!!!!
@@NeroLeMorte This is what I was about to say. Community
I got news for you JP; There are millions (or is it billions or trillions... Oh hell. Let's just go with an infinite number) of timelines out there, none of which can be deleted or discontinued. All this means is that there are at least two The Orville universes now; one where Gordon sent his message after six months and one where he sent it after three months. And then there are the uncountable number of variations that result from these differences.
Oh I completely agree. But I've learned over the years general audiences can't handle that kind of info when it comes to time travel.
I just wonder if they will include the prior version as an "extra" on the future DVD/Blu-ray release? Fans would love to compare to get a real appreciation for the perils and pitfalls of time travel scifi, in general. Kudos to J.P. for providing a stellar platform to discuss Orville "what ifs"!
That is cool!
Although I wished the explored the multiple time lines or dimensions.
1 thing I never understood, you lterally saw him get pushed back and then split into several versions! This to me means there are several versions of him.
As someone who's only watched Orville on hulu, thank you for the insight. Glad they cared enough to fix it.
I totally missed that. I was too busy focused on what dicks they were by going back with Talla to strong arm Gordon into going back with them in front of his wife and son. Knowing they could just go back in time before he got married they could have done that anyway without this heartbreaking and fearsome intrusion.
Exactly…. That scene always bothered the hell outta me
This is amazing commitment. Bravo to the shows' staff.
I didn’t catch it because I was too focused on how awful they treated the Gordon who had married and had a family and basically told them they were wiping all of them from existence. Ed could have just got up and said, “All right. You win. I just hope you’re happy with the future you’ve created,” or something like that. Kelly would challenge him after they were alone and then he could say they were going back to get him further in the past. Perhaps this sets up an alternate timeline story for season four though with a resentful Gordon.
Wow, I did not catch this when watching the episode for the first time. Kudos to all crew, showrunners, etc for caring enough to fix it!
Bummer. I’m impressed they made the effort to fix the mistake, but I would rather have seen an episode down the road where the crew has to deal with it.
This was a really emotionally powerful episode. I never thought of how bad it would be for somebody having to listen to those laws
Thanks for this. I totally missed this when I watched it the first time. I guess I am just a big fan. It is great that they took the time to fix the error. Kudos to everyone who spotted that and let them know.
I honestly wish they explored a timeline where they picked up Gordon and his wife instead of going even further back in time and picking him up when he first arrived. He seemed so happy, it was heartbreaking.
I think that was the point though 😥
Plus if they did take 2025 Gordon and his family, they would also have to turn him in for breaking temporal law and he'd probably spend a significant portion, if not the majority of his life in prison.
I think I agree with Captain Janeway when it comes to time travel and temporal law… “It all gives me a headache”
@@kelvin1316 Exactly the reason I liked season 3 so much less than 1 and 2. The fun and light story lines were totally absent.
Fan service by the producers of the Orville is rare and appreciated
I wish they hadn't fixed it. I feel like it would've opened up several story possibilities.
Hooray for you! Long live The Orville!
This episode was definitely my favorite of the season.
This was easily my favorite episode of any television show in a very long time. We need some renewal news! This show is just too good not to keep going
That was a tough choice they had to make! But at least Gordon got his sandwich eventually! That makes up for losing a family, right?
You don't miss what you never had. Gordon had his sandwich.
I never thought it was a writers mistake. Thought there was going to be some future episode where maybe Gordon finds the message the Orville heard and Gordon goes "Oh. Oh. I never sent a message." and go from there. That would've been better. I feel a bit cheated. Oh well.
Hooray, hooray for yooou! Wow this is amazing. I guess this is why we love this show, because it cares about its genre and it’s fans.
I haven’t watched the fixed version yet. I can say that the timeline thing didn’t bother me at all, I figured they’d work it all out in future episodes. The only thing that bothered me (a lot) was how cold Ed, Kelly and Talla were towards Gordon and his whole relationship with Laura… both in the original episode when he first met her, and especially in this episode when he was left in the past for 10 years and started a family with her. Their emotionless attitude toward that relationship seemed so… weird!
Yeah, that was the very first episode that pushed me away from those characters, and I haven't been able to look at them the same way since. It was downright disgusting how cruel they were.
That wasn't strange at all. What Gordon did was reprehensible. It could have had disastrous consequences, and he was really lucky it didn't. His relationship was incredibly insignificant compared to the imminent need to get him out and probably put him in prison for the rest of his life. But thankfully they were able to get him before he did it, so he didn't have to go to prison. Still, everyone now knows that Gordon is capable of that sort of thing so really makes the audience and the crew look at him in a new way.
@@ilithios99 That’s true, but I’m not talking about the anger or disappointment in their tone at what he did timeline wise. Their underlying lack of empathy or even a shred of tolerance for his feelings about Laura at all is what I’m talking about. It was probably more apparent back when Laura was just a holographic compilation of what he found on her phone from the past, which didn’t have any timeline consequences other than making him temporarily happy. Their attitude was distain for him… or even hollow, even for that.
I just felt that it seemed quite uncharacteristic of them, or at least where their characters were otherwise being developed as.
My wife and I literally stopped watching the show because of that episode. It made us hate everybody and the fact that at the end of it they were all good, was just so messed up... we tried watching the next episode but just found ourselves not really wanting to return to the characters that would do their friend dirty like that... so sadly we never finished the season... and probably won't circle back for quite a while.
It isn't that they didn't have empathy. They knew what they had to do and there was no way it could go in Gordon's favor. They also know that once they set everything right, he won't remember it. It would have never happened. Showing empathy wouldn't have gotten them anywhere. It may have made things more difficult.
I still don't understand why it would be a paradox:
1.) Gordon goes back in time.
2.) Gordon sends the message six months after arriving.
3.) The Orville goes back to get him and misses by ten years.
4.) That Gordon does not want to leave, so the crew goes back in time again.
5.) They get Gordon before he sent them the message that he was there in the first place, hence, 'paradox.'
I don't see it as a paradox, however, because getting Gordon eliminated the need for him to send the message. The Orville even returned to an altered future (in that they took the long way) so they didn't even time travel back instantaneously. There's a whole maze of problems associated with that, not least of which being there would have to exist two Orvilles (and everyone on The Orville) for some number of decades.
The paradox seems to be that present Orville could not get a message that Gordon did not send, but I see no reason for that to be true. Just like Kelly and Ed remember the Gordon from 2025 (and everyone on the ship remembering what they were doing in 2025) everyone would remember that Gordon sent the message before they went back in time. The event happened and will have always happened; it just didn't happen in the current timeline. Just like Gordon didn't get married in the current timeline, but everyone except Gordon remembers him doing so.
In effect, I think the, 'Paradox,' self-corrects. He never sent the message, but only because there was no longer a need to.
I was on your side, but after some thought, they have shown that altering a timeline erases the timeline. For example when Kelly didn't go on a date with Ed, and then did. Timeline erased, then recreated. So if they got Gordon before the message, it would have erased him having sent the message.
@@speersword165 I agree with that, but he didn't need to send it because they already had him anyway and took the long way back. If they had jumped forward in time again, then there could be a problem. In effect, they didn't actually time travel back; they simply existed.
@@brandonjames412 I think the reason they had to retcon it though, is because they would have picked him up before the message, which would erase the message, which would erase the Gordon they had, and have him reappear before they got them? I don't, time travel.
@@speersword165 Maybe; I suppose none of us really know. I may well be attributing too much importance to his physical existence at the point they originally picked him up (before the message was sent) and then him not sending the message, as you point out, would negate him from existence from that point forward....or something.
Of course, they could have always just done the hop around in space thing (as they did to get back) so that he goes back down and just sends the message even though they already have him.
I was confused, but this episode was still awesome. Can't wait for season 4!
Regardless of everything, its cool that the creators care so much about the show and the fans that they made corrections as soon as they did.
Now I feel stupid for missing it the first time. Oh well. Glad they care about this stuff
As a frame of ref, in Starfleet they are trained to 'go to ground' if they get stuck in the past. All of them are trained in survival skills, so they could literally go live in the mountains with no human contact which is what most 'Time Laws' would require so as to avoid any chance of contamination of the timeline
I never noticed that first time around, its just a testament to how good the show is, that they cared enough to go back and fix it.
Wow, they actually went back and fix that. God, this emboldens my love for the creators.
I noticed it, but I put a lampshade on it. I'm glad they fixed it, and it's nice we live in an era where shows on streaming services can edit things easily like that.
The Orville's version of the Starbucks cup from "Game of Thrones", in a manner of speaking. LOL!!
This was amazing information. I do appreciate learning of these things. And I thank you because this episode truly touched my heart. I was so heartbroken knowing that he was not able to keep his family. but I totally understood the reason why. despite this little glitch, Oroville rocks forever.
I had an idea for a fanfic episode based on this called "Stronger Than Time." In the episode, a scientist from the Future with 4th dimensional thinking travels back in time to stop Krill terrorists from altering history.
He reveals that he, Charlie and others like them who could think in 4D can do so because of the “antero-temporal” genes from future people…like Gordon, who fathered the family that would lead to Charlie being born.
He further explains that *both* timelines (Gordon left and Gordon stayed) exist as a *single* timeline because of a “Schrodinger's Cat” effect, since they established how perception can affect time travel: All timelines exist if nobody in the present is witnessing them.
The Orville originally hosed the timeline twice: not being destroyed in season 1 because they were saved by Charlize Theron and at the end of season 2 Kelly 1.0 may have had her memory of the future erased but there are still subtle changes. (Explaining Isaac's altered appearance for example.) So they shouldn't have bothered 'fixing' Gordon's rescue. Also just on principle I don't like fudging with already released episodes and movies - stinks of SW special editions. (Maybe the original and revised episodes are themselves different timelines!)
FINALLY SOMEONE POINTED OUT WHAT I IMMEDIATELY KNEW! THANK YOU! I THOUGHT I WAS GOING CRAZY!
I knew something felt different when I rewatched this episode last week. Thanks!
If this becomes a Mandella Effect does that mean my .mkv file will change to the updated version?
I didn't even notice the mistake. Glad they fixed it.
Oh wow....I didn't even realise this. Thank you for enlightening me
What a cool show to do that😊
Any time travel instantly creates paradoxes no matter what because some matter or energy always gets out of sync. So I just always assume that there are an near infinite number of branching paradoxes even with just a single photon go astray.
Thank you for this! I wouldn't have know any of this.
You rock!
In Australia, SBS Streaming still has the original video file to watch.
I didn't watch the "fix". I saw the original. Honestly loved the new path they took toward something more serious but keeping the funny. I hope there will be more.
Amazing pick up Thanks for the update
I didn't even know I came later to the series and only watched that episode a few weeks ago.
I never even noticed the defect in the first place. However, there is another intriguing lose end. Gordon’s obituary was in the Orville’s database all along. That means that his life in the 21st century was part of the prime timeline and that timeline still exists. When they picked up 3-month Gordon, they created a new timeline separate from their own.
As William Shatner once so eloquently put it “for crying out loud, it’s just a tv show!”
I thought the original message said he has sent this to auto (garbled in the static) so never noticed as I just assumed the beacon was just sending continuously. lol
I only just recently saw this episode so I wasn’t aware it originally had different times but the ADR on Lamar changing it to “four months” was very obvious. Now I know why!
Rly shows how Seth and co are caring for this world... very very very very nice stuff
I appreciate the fix because they were pretty clear at the start of the episode that Gordon not sending the message would make a new timeline
They need to pick up a season 4 this last season was by far the best one yet
" ... was I confused about Gordon when I watched the original version of the episode ... ?" ... hell no ... I'm confused all the time ... it made perfect sense.
The episode called “Pria” ended with a paradox as well. They closed the wormhole on there time end. But by doing that, Pria never came back to there time and they never learned that the wormhole even existed. So they not knowing about it never went there to close it. And they were than back where they started. Time travel science fiction is pain in the ass to get right.
This episode really cemented it for me that Ed and Kelly are the real villains of The Orville universe. They already indicated by their research in their present that Gordon living a happy life in the past had pretty much zero effect on the timeline. Yet they still went back and removed his relationship and his children’s existence. Worse yet, they had Gordon seem like he was happy about the way they handled it in the end.
i agree what i hate even more is how they r technically hypocrites. in season 1 episode 5 prea, they were ment to die in a dark matter storm and were saved by prea who wanted to sell them and ship to a collector. after escaping and going back to theyre time they contiune without a care in the world and contiune to change the timeline with every action they took. they were by law ment to do as gordon did and lay low and live the rest of they lives not interferring but they didnt. u could argue since they arent from the future and its theyre present they r fine but they know that they r ment to be dead and r changing the future coz it doesnt suit them. what i hate even more is they bring back gordon and make it sound like they r saving him like "yea thx for erasing my loving family that i was happy with" and he had no problems with it like WTF!. Ed and Kelly constantly break rules when it suits them and r hypocrites about it all the time to others when they break rules but when its them its like my bad or it was the right thing for them.
I must have misheard it originally,
I thought when Lamar said they were late by x months, he was referring to the temporal coordinates Gordon gave them, which would have been based on where and when he was at time of transmission
Great attention to detail
I bet the original intention was for John to say they arrived a month after the message was sent out, making it seven months since Gordon arrived. But I'm impressed they actually went back and fixed it.
Dang, I missed that. Thanks to those who spotted it.
HOORAY! HOORAY for you!
It makes sense there is a second version to fix the first, it is called TWICE IN A LIFETIME after all.
When you watch the episode again, look just as Gordon tries to shoot the Anti-Banana Ray. Gordon literally is split into six or seven Gordons. It only lasts for two seconds, but you can clearly see it.
The end of this episode made me cry so much.
I never noticed this and I probably never would have but I totally admire the love for the show that they went to all the effort to fix it 🍗
Well, that makes a bit more sense. I figured the writers originally meant the Orville went back to a month after the message was sent, but they goofed and referred to his arrival instead.
Why did they make it 3 and 4 months, not 5 and six for instancy? Lip sync?
In any case, the Gordon with a family just got to complete his life on his own timeline, right?
Perhaps there's even one that sent the message and never got picked up at all.
I saw this episode last night, on Star+. And it still has the original mistake, which I spotted and left me thinking, which is how I came upon this video.
What a weird thing to do. I would've been fine with alternate realities. Alternate realities means there's a 10 year older version of Gordon still out there with his wife and kid. It still kind of doesn't fix the problem. There's still a paradox from Orville's relative time line. They needed to do 2 time jumps towards the past. The second jump's reason is negated because that means they would never have met the version of Gordon that had a family prompting them to make the second jump if they picked up Gordon even further down the line. If they only made one jump then its fine. But they made two.
So impressed they took the time & money to listen to fans and fix this. Seth is fucking heroic!
Cool, Orville is for me like StarGate back in the good days
The problem with this whole thing is that the fact is the message and his six month stay was slowly but surely changing the timeline not instantly and something from a timeline that didn’t exist could still be remembered. This can be seen in the fact that past Kelly could remember and change back the proper timeline even though it didn’t exist and couldn’t have brought her to the future. If the temporal laws worked like you think than she would have forgotten the future as soon she started changing things.
Documentary-voice JP is a neat twist... wait, have I fallen into another timeline?
There is still a problem. It said he died at 99 when they looked him up in the past. Meaning he was soposed to stay there.
That was a result of the alternate timeline they had to fix. Look up "A Sound of Thunder" by Ray Bradbury (the short story, not the crap movie) to see the ramifications of what a single small change can do to a timeline. By rights the world of the Orville should have abeen completely different to normal because of Gordon's effect on the timeline.
I like the idea of multiple timelines regardless. I hope family man Gordon and his, well, family live on in their own timeline. They deserve to be happy.
Cool. Fixes it anyways.
Made me think when I saw this. Made me wonder how they would handle the characters going back in time to fix a change in the timeline, and they run into someone trying to stop them, because the changes made things better in the future in someway the main characters didn't have time to notice.
I always saw it as one timeline lives because the live for his family was beyond time and the other timeline gave them a happy Orville Gordon...
If the Orville got a 4th season this would be a great plot point to revisit, basically the plot of the episode is that they have to plop Gordon back in time again to correct the timeline so that he sends the message but the government is on to Gordon and he has to take a series of risks trusting in the thread of causality that got him there to evade capture
The Orville went back to the future through normal space after Gordon was on ancient Earth for four months. He is bound to have done things that changed details, and changes in the details eventually become great changes in events. Without some timey-whimey time travel handwaving the future that the 'go back to' is one derived from the universe in which Gordon spent four months on Earth, producing lots of little changes. The future they arrive in should have been 'different', maybe still with a Planetary Union, but with no record of the Orville or its crew. (After a number of adventures their friends from the planet where time is weird help them back to their original timeline, and also show them the timeline that the Gordon who was on Earth for years produced.)
I loved this episode but had a crazy theory that it WOULD create multiple timelines, and in this timeline, the Gordon who wanted to preserve his family ended up downloading his and his family's minds into robots...unwittingly creating the Kaylons. The show quickly squashed this craziness in upcoming episodes, and it's probably better that we didn't see multiple timelines, but it was a fun thought.
Oh wow…..I didn’t know they adjusted it until just now. I just figured Gordon had his future self to thank, but actually think as I’m writing, the fix was necessary to avoid a paradox. If they picked him up before he sent the message, he never would have sent the message to begin with.
In the end, the sandwich did show up 3 months later, lol.
Sweet... I caught this too I'm glad they fixed it
I thought it was a fun intentional detail. It would have been a cool way of preserving the timeline where Gordon got to live out his life on Earth while still having him rejoin the Orville. Honestly a little bit of a shame that it didnt turn out to be that way
I really felt bad for gordon when they told him theyd erase his family. He was abandoned from his point of view. Id do the same thing he did.
It's fully understandable, but at the same time he did alter history. It really just depends on if Orville has one timeline where Gordon changing things can have disastrous effects, or if it's a multiverse setting, in which case Gordon being back there makes no difference to anything as it all exists in another Universe.