Very cool commander. I appreciate you highlighting the importance of not getting tunnel visioned into building a deck that does not work without the commander. I'd like to recommend a card to circumvent that problem a little: "Battlefield Thaumaturge". It's like a mini Hinata ^^
a slept on combo imo is Midnight Guard +Elemental Mastery. Midnight Guard untaps whenever another creature enters the battlefield under your control, and Elemental Mastery give the enchanted creature 'tap: create a 1/1 with haste, sacrifice at the end of turn.' It's a combo that fits in Hinata's colors (RW), two cards only, and is not reliant on Hinata in order to pop off :)
Something you need to be highly attuned with while playing this commander is the fact that it's a mini 3feri. Having her in play makes it much harder for opponents to stop each other thus putting more pressure on you having interaction available. slamming it early can be downright detrimental if facing the "wrong" pod
Why does this channel keep making sub optimal deck techs? Are you guys why i have to sit down at a spelltable with 2 bad, 2/3 color, no blue, stacks decks? Cedh channels need to focus on what cedh is; Focus on pushing the meta further and optimizing top lists and analyzing plays. Leave suboptimal commanders to suboptimal channels
Well I did talk about some of the problems that this commander has. I oftet do. I think it is important to explain why some commanders struggle. And I did meantion that in the video and how to build if you wanna solv that. You know you have to explain to people why some commanders are bad. Isen't that what your asking for? what I do in this is showcasing its strong abilitys but also try and highlight is propblems.
This commander is broken. You control the board and win with underworld breach brainfreeze? This is definitely a possible turn 2 or 3 win if you need it. Otherwise you can go the distance in a slug fest because you make them pay more and you pay less. Plus soulfire eruption is basically gg
I love the explanation of Card Economy here. So much of CEDH is about consistency, and cheap 1 for 1s is the most consistent way to interact in this context, but because of that, I think it's very easy to miss concepts like Card economy and underestimate its strength
Hey Mons, very great video and I Do agree with many points (I mean I did watch you rock this deck) so yeah if anyone can crack the secrets if Hinata...you will be one of them :)
I cant decide if I want curiosity/curious obsession. Hinata has the evasion to constantly trigger, but it is already a target for removal before being enchanted.
I am wondering if you should focus on the stax instead of the reduction effect. I am not a big fan of the colorless lands in a very color intesive deck. But I think the general analysis hits the nail on the head.
My general rule when i built my Hinata list was "Is the card playable without Hinata? If yes, then goes in. If not the card must be, at least a massive bomb." Cards like Magma Opus and Aurelia's Fury enters under the first category, they are amazing while your general is in play and still somewhat useful without it. Cards like Reality Spasm and Soulfire Eruption falls under the second category, they are dead cards without Hinata but they are massive bombs when she is in play. Also Notice that reality spasm can also be used in place of Lotus petal/LED during your breach lines if hinata is in play. Those are the only 4 "hinata cards" i play. By Force and Heliod Intervention are already played in other decks so they does not count as a "Hinata card" xD
That is a great philosophy. Try and play cards that are already good. You have to be picky with the cards you add to you deck. You really talk about cut your darlings here.
I feel like I noticed what you were talking about at the end of video… I built a list and every time I goldfish mulligans it seems clunky. Hard to find perfect combination of ramp/x spells/protection for Hinata
Yes. I am still trying to find that perfect balance. But I have a feeling they might print some more busted cards for her in the future. Big red spells are sure a thing wizards like to bring.
Correct. I think this commander can get away with a lot at first. But once your learn what it can do. You also learn that you only needto kill this commander and it won't be a problem for you anymore.
Hinata with grad arbiter rhystic study smothering tithe Thalia propaganda and stuff like that,then you put a little X spells,around 10 and 15-20 counters 10-15 mana rocks 35- lands and you are ready
Wizards need to make an artifact card that says: "sacrifice -Crystal Mox- to add 3 mana to your mana pool in any combinations of color. Spend this mana only to cast your commander". Such ramp would be able to resolve the problem of cast a 3 color commander. There are great 3 color commanders like this who can benefit from such a card...
I'm shocked they even printed Jeweled Lotus. WOTC are super afraid of power. People cry if you get a hard counter for less than 3cmc or even draw a card for less than 3cmc. MTG is a joke anymore, I miss when they actually printed powerful cards. Now everyone cries and they have to ban everything. It's ridiculous.
@@cedhtv I think that idea of artifact ramp would have been better than Jeweled Lotus itself. They should have printed it with different text, like "any combinations of color", instead of "a single color". Maybe they would print something like that in the future but with an alternative cost (such as putting in the text of the card: exile "crystal mox", then add the 3 mana in any combinations of color. Just for make sure people would use it only once per game ). I mean if they had the "balls" to imprint Jeweled, then they possible can imprint another like that one
@@ingmigueleduardo7 except that every legal card in commander affects the next printed card. The idea that two 0cmc rituals would be allowed in commander sounds a bit busted. I really like the way it is right now.
I think her ability to slow counterspells is something that should be talked about, she shuts free spells off and makes every other counterspell almost unpayable. Which I think makes her a massive threat for breach decks since it wont be mana positive to mill everyone or yourself (if you're fighting Hinata) since the brain freeze costs 3 mana. She wrecks dockside since she is constantly clearing the board at efficient levels. The hardest part is casting her, costing 3 different pips and a generic.
An issue with the counterspell shutoff ability is that since 2/3 of opponents at the table will likely not be able to play their counterspells, if I go for a thassa win the hinata player has to respond because all the other counterspells cost too much. So if you play it into a value/combo table you could end up shutting off interaction which would let another player go for a win since a player cannot force of will or pact of negation to stop it.
@@cedhtv Speaking of which, I'm surprised you didn't take this opportunity to mention Aurelia's Fury again haha. I remember that card a lot from your older videos.
I did think about it. But I wanted to focus on showcasing the idea and concept more then just showcase a lot of same things. But it is 100% in the deck.
keep in mind too heliods also gains you twice the amount of life of the artifacts you destroy+1. So if you destroy 12 artifacts and enchantments you also gain 26 life, pretty solid. Edit: personally hinata is less useful as an X spell commander (maybe run 3 really solid ones) and better as a stax commander. It is augustine IV but with red available to it, reducing your spells by 1 and increasing your opponents by 1. It is more niche but the addition of red means you can breach combo in a stax commander list. Run this in a stax deck and I think itll do way better
This really isn't anything like Grand Arbiter. It's a nice effect to have, but it's not nearly as debilitating as Grand Arbiter. The taxing effect doesn't stop anyone from executing their gameplan, just makes it harder to interact. Sometimes that can even backfire...
@@LC-wv7tz I said it was more niche, but I was stating that it plays similar to GAIV, I have been testing it out myself and imagine an elsha shell that cares less about top deck comboing and more about winning counter spell trades, forcing opponents to tap out to cast a counterspell while your counterspells cost 1 less is more what I was referring to. I only play 4 X spells in my current list, and mostly play a staxy type deck with the new jellyfish artifact creature and an elsha in my deck, but with a breach type line as my backup as it also makes seveines reclamation cost hella cheap for super fast wins. Hinata is basically the counter spell queen, if you play it right you win counter wars unless someone has a high tide combo going.
The negative of being commander dependant is pretty much why I don't like Hinata. If you gain too much value when you have her, she becomes a HUGE target even pre-game if you've played the deck before. But then because you don't have her in play, your deck is just worse because you're playing cards you wouldn't normally. I also personally am not compelled by the "overloading" your X or "any number of target" spells. So maybe it's just not a commander that speaks to me. But my two cents is that it's trying to wear too many hats.
I agree on you on all things here. But I do kinda like playing her. It is cool to try and make some strange cards ytou don't normally play work. Its like playing the cEDH you never get to play otherwhise. And if you get to the stage where this just brings a massiv impact. Then your in a grate position. It just about getting there.
You keep on repeating the bombshells in the deck without providing advice on how to pilot the deck. If the deck can run without the commander, then add those cards. Include spells and abilities that protect the commander. All in all...3/5 star review. Arcmage.
Very cool commander. I appreciate you highlighting the importance of not getting tunnel visioned into building a deck that does not work without the commander. I'd like to recommend a card to circumvent that problem a little: "Battlefield Thaumaturge". It's like a mini Hinata ^^
Yeah. I think I might add it to my maybeboard.
Yup. 👍🏻 I put it in my sideboard for play against a mirror-match.
Ahhh I saw you put up the list on me field and knew the video was incoming 👀👀 awesome stuff! 🔥
a slept on combo imo is Midnight Guard +Elemental Mastery. Midnight Guard untaps whenever another creature enters the battlefield under your control, and Elemental Mastery give the enchanted creature 'tap: create a 1/1 with haste, sacrifice at the end of turn.' It's a combo that fits in Hinata's colors (RW), two cards only, and is not reliant on Hinata in order to pop off :)
Very nice commander. Very nice job walking through Hinata's abilities and showing how they are best used and her weaknesses. Thank you Mons.
Your welcome :)
Something you need to be highly attuned with while playing this commander is the fact that it's a mini 3feri. Having her in play makes it much harder for opponents to stop each other thus putting more pressure on you having interaction available. slamming it early can be downright detrimental if facing the "wrong" pod
Why does this channel keep making sub optimal deck techs? Are you guys why i have to sit down at a spelltable with 2 bad, 2/3 color, no blue, stacks decks?
Cedh channels need to focus on what cedh is;
Focus on pushing the meta further and optimizing top lists and analyzing plays.
Leave suboptimal commanders to suboptimal channels
Well I did talk about some of the problems that this commander has. I oftet do. I think it is important to explain why some commanders struggle. And I did meantion that in the video and how to build if you wanna solv that.
You know you have to explain to people why some commanders are bad. Isen't that what your asking for?
what I do in this is showcasing its strong abilitys but also try and highlight is propblems.
This commander is broken. You control the board and win with underworld breach brainfreeze? This is definitely a possible turn 2 or 3 win if you need it. Otherwise you can go the distance in a slug fest because you make them pay more and you pay less. Plus soulfire eruption is basically gg
Mass manipulation is a good card for this deck too
It actually is.
I love the explanation of Card Economy here. So much of CEDH is about consistency, and cheap 1 for 1s is the most consistent way to interact in this context, but because of that, I think it's very easy to miss concepts like Card economy and underestimate its strength
I ussually play a decently powered casual format. But I love you channel for being able to learn card assessment
Thank you.
Hey Mons, very great video and I Do agree with many points (I mean I did watch you rock this deck) so yeah if anyone can crack the secrets if Hinata...you will be one of them :)
haha we will see.
Great tv, I def liked and subscribed
Then welcome to the channel.
@@cedhtv have you added or changed anything to this deck to make it flow better as you mentioned
Very interesting mons, I didn’t think of the problems with the deck
I only thought of the positives
You need to think about all of its aspects.
I cant decide if I want curiosity/curious obsession. Hinata has the evasion to constantly trigger, but it is already a target for removal before being enchanted.
I am wondering if you should focus on the stax instead of the reduction effect. I am not a big fan of the colorless lands in a very color intesive deck.
But I think the general analysis hits the nail on the head.
If you wanna focus on stax you should go for a different commander all togheter I think.
My general rule when i built my Hinata list was "Is the card playable without Hinata? If yes, then goes in. If not the card must be, at least a massive bomb."
Cards like Magma Opus and Aurelia's Fury enters under the first category, they are amazing while your general is in play and still somewhat useful without it.
Cards like Reality Spasm and Soulfire Eruption falls under the second category, they are dead cards without Hinata but they are massive bombs when she is in play. Also Notice that reality spasm can also be used in place of Lotus petal/LED during your breach lines if hinata is in play.
Those are the only 4 "hinata cards" i play. By Force and Heliod Intervention are already played in other decks so they does not count as a "Hinata card" xD
That is a great philosophy. Try and play cards that are already good. You have to be picky with the cards you add to you deck. You really talk about cut your darlings here.
Any 1r or 1u spell that is played is cheaper here so in it goes. Id like some more tax effects too
Playing counterspells with 1 and a blue is nice
One of my favorite card for this commander is paradoxical outcome. With Hinata it can be an Ancestral Recall.
Yeah I think that one is a must have for the card draw. But also a bit ritual. Returning sol rings and such.
What about cards like rewind and unwind? Costing one less to cast and netting a land.
Shoutout to Trickbind: it's always compared as "not better enough compared to Stifle", well with Hinata, it will cost the same as Stifle!
You dont need X spells. a 1 mana abrade? yessir. a 1 mana tales end? yessir. Hinata is in fact a 5 color medallion in disguise, awesome
2 life apostles blessing? yessir
I feel like I noticed what you were talking about at the end of video… I built a list and every time I goldfish mulligans it seems clunky. Hard to find perfect combination of ramp/x spells/protection for Hinata
Yes. I am still trying to find that perfect balance. But I have a feeling they might print some more busted cards for her in the future. Big red spells are sure a thing wizards like to bring.
Very nice approach for Hinata ! Did you try a stax build ? It could help, to go slower and less dependant on the commander :)
I think that if you wanna go stax there are better commanders for that actually.
Reminds me of Kinnan - powerful if your opponents let your commander sit out, but they will never let your commander sit out
Correct. I think this commander can get away with a lot at first. But once your learn what it can do. You also learn that you only needto kill this commander and it won't be a problem for you anymore.
Uhmm mons.. baral chief of compliance would be busted in this deck. Just load up on counter spells to protect her
Hinata with grad arbiter rhystic study smothering tithe Thalia propaganda and stuff like that,then you put a little X spells,around 10 and 15-20 counters 10-15 mana rocks 35- lands and you are ready
Wizards need to make an artifact card that says: "sacrifice -Crystal Mox- to add 3 mana to your mana pool in any combinations of color. Spend this mana only to cast your commander". Such ramp would be able to resolve the problem of cast a 3 color commander. There are great 3 color commanders like this who can benefit from such a card...
If that were a card, we'd all play Jeweled too and cast 7cmc commanders t1. Idk...
Like what Joshua said. I don't think they will print that card.
I'm shocked they even printed Jeweled Lotus. WOTC are super afraid of power. People cry if you get a hard counter for less than 3cmc or even draw a card for less than 3cmc. MTG is a joke anymore, I miss when they actually printed powerful cards. Now everyone cries and they have to ban everything. It's ridiculous.
@@cedhtv I think that idea of artifact ramp would have been better than Jeweled Lotus itself. They should have printed it with different text, like "any combinations of color", instead of "a single color". Maybe they would print something like that in the future but with an alternative cost (such as putting in the text of the card: exile "crystal mox", then add the 3 mana in any combinations of color. Just for make sure people would use it only once per game ). I mean if they had the "balls" to imprint Jeweled, then they possible can imprint another like that one
@@ingmigueleduardo7 except that every legal card in commander affects the next printed card. The idea that two 0cmc rituals would be allowed in commander sounds a bit busted. I really like the way it is right now.
I think her ability to slow counterspells is something that should be talked about, she shuts free spells off and makes every other counterspell almost unpayable. Which I think makes her a massive threat for breach decks since it wont be mana positive to mill everyone or yourself (if you're fighting Hinata) since the brain freeze costs 3 mana. She wrecks dockside since she is constantly clearing the board at efficient levels. The hardest part is casting her, costing 3 different pips and a generic.
An issue with the counterspell shutoff ability is that since 2/3 of opponents at the table will likely not be able to play their counterspells, if I go for a thassa win the hinata player has to respond because all the other counterspells cost too much. So if you play it into a value/combo table you could end up shutting off interaction which would let another player go for a win since a player cannot force of will or pact of negation to stop it.
@@lordofgarbageprogenitoroft4147 It's not that they can't.... That's like never paying the 1 for Rhystic.
overloaded vandleblast doesn't tager so it doesn't work right?
He was giving an example to the cost (hinata plus by force)...since yes overload does not target but its 5 mana
4:30 can we call that combo "hell freezes over"?
Scorched Earth is an X spell Hinata could reduce the cost of, to bad it has that additional cost
Does hinatas ability affect multi kicker cost as seen on like comet storm?
Yes it dose! For 2 mana you can deal 1 damage to all opponents creatures. For 5 mana you can deal 4 damage to all opponents creatures.
@@cedhtv Speaking of which, I'm surprised you didn't take this opportunity to mention Aurelia's Fury again haha. I remember that card a lot from your older videos.
@@cedhtv cool thanks for the reply!
I did think about it. But I wanted to focus on showcasing the idea and concept more then just showcase a lot of same things. But it is 100% in the deck.
Ghostly flicker archaeomancer and dockside go infinite off two artifacts.
don't you need 3 to make infinit mana?
@@cedhtv ghostly flicker has two targets. Think commander reduces it by two. So costing one.
keep in mind too heliods also gains you twice the amount of life of the artifacts you destroy+1. So if you destroy 12 artifacts and enchantments you also gain 26 life, pretty solid.
Edit: personally hinata is less useful as an X spell commander (maybe run 3 really solid ones) and better as a stax commander. It is augustine IV but with red available to it, reducing your spells by 1 and increasing your opponents by 1. It is more niche but the addition of red means you can breach combo in a stax commander list. Run this in a stax deck and I think itll do way better
This really isn't anything like Grand Arbiter. It's a nice effect to have, but it's not nearly as debilitating as Grand Arbiter. The taxing effect doesn't stop anyone from executing their gameplan, just makes it harder to interact. Sometimes that can even backfire...
@@LC-wv7tz I said it was more niche, but I was stating that it plays similar to GAIV, I have been testing it out myself and imagine an elsha shell that cares less about top deck comboing and more about winning counter spell trades, forcing opponents to tap out to cast a counterspell while your counterspells cost 1 less is more what I was referring to.
I only play 4 X spells in my current list, and mostly play a staxy type deck with the new jellyfish artifact creature and an elsha in my deck, but with a breach type line as my backup as it also makes seveines reclamation cost hella cheap for super fast wins.
Hinata is basically the counter spell queen, if you play it right you win counter wars unless someone has a high tide combo going.
The negative of being commander dependant is pretty much why I don't like Hinata. If you gain too much value when you have her, she becomes a HUGE target even pre-game if you've played the deck before. But then because you don't have her in play, your deck is just worse because you're playing cards you wouldn't normally.
I also personally am not compelled by the "overloading" your X or "any number of target" spells. So maybe it's just not a commander that speaks to me. But my two cents is that it's trying to wear too many hats.
I agree on you on all things here. But I do kinda like playing her. It is cool to try and make some strange cards ytou don't normally play work. Its like playing the cEDH you never get to play otherwhise. And if you get to the stage where this just brings a massiv impact. Then your in a grate position. It just about getting there.
Make a deck tech pls!!!!
Why not just play Ghostly Flicker combo storm?
That would be a bit commander dependent. These others arent. And that is an upside. You don't need to have your commander in play to win.
@@cedhtv You don't need Hinata in play to win with Ghostly Flicker. Then you just need Peregrine Drake instead.
Man you have to stop doing those incredible decktechs... I just wanna try to build everysingle deck you show but the money isn't following my dreams
sorry but they are fun to do :)
You keep on repeating the bombshells in the deck without providing advice on how to pilot the deck. If the deck can run without the commander, then add those cards. Include spells and abilities that protect the commander. All in all...3/5 star review.
Arcmage.
First But watch it later.
Still first!