Steph Curry's 4th ring stirs up GOAT debate surrounding LeBron James | NBA | FIRST THINGS FIRST
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- Опубліковано 19 чер 2024
- Stephen Curry was missing one thing heading into this NBA season, and that was a Finals MVP. Now that he has it, is LeBron James' GOAT status in question? Nick Wright and Chris Broussard discuss whether Steph Curry winning his 4th Championship with the Golden State Warriors, and his new Finals MVP award is a threat to LeBron's GOAT status.
#FirstThingsFirst #NBA #StephCurry
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Steph Curry's 4th ring stirs up GOAT debate surrounding LeBron James | NBA | FIRST THINGS FIRST
• Steph Curry's 4th ring...
First Things First
/ firstthingsfirst - Спорт
Listen to The Skip Bayless Show podcast: sprtspod.fox/SkipBaylessShowPodcast
Don’t promote that garbage on this good show.
Lebron James is in the same conversation as Jerry West and Wilt Chamberlain. Great players that lost more then anyone.
@@friend1766 llllllllllllllllllllplppppppppppp
@@friend1766 Maybe. My point is, Steph just finished playing the best basketball of his life, and it was on a par with anything we've ever seen. So even if we're not used to the idea yet, if Steph continues this way, and perhaps even improves, two or three years from now we may be talking about him in the GOAT conversation...
Y’all claim lebron so great yet in the erra of his so called greatness he has lost so many titles .he teamed up with other players and win how many ? He’s great but not as y’all making him
Everything everyone does “STIRS UP” the Lebron GOAT debate 😂😂
Because of the CHEAT Lebron done for a DECADE!
Anything involving lebron is great for the algorithm
Somehow someway and like the comment above alluded it's great for ratings
@@Mercurial. go outside
@@josephdees6929
And u get inside, of the game!
Steph curry is in a Tim Duncan category for me. Both selfless leaders that helped create a great organizational culture and maybe #1 all time at their position and both deserving to be in the top 10 all time. Their organization helped them realize their best potential and leaving that organization would have an affect on them.
Could say that for any top player
Exactly Steph is the new Duncan !
@@bjrnthebootybandit No you can't. I'll give you 2 examples.
Shaq: Didn't create a great organizational culture. He hindered it. And openly admits that because of his selfishness, his Penny and Kobe teams never reached their full potential.
Lebron: Wins rings with whatever organization he sets foot in. He maximizes the potential of organizations, not the other way around.
steph curry is going to be dramatically underrated just like tim duncan. his willingness to be unselfish is going to be used against him. his team culture is going to be used against him. it’s insane.
@@nateolison7553 huh? Lakers hadn't won for a decade and Shad lead them to a 3 peat. That's hindering an organisation? He moves to Miami and they win again. Aite bet
The disrespect on the late great Kobe Bryant never stops!!!
The disrespect started with Kobe’s 2000, 2001, 2004 and 2008 NBA Finals performance and also his 2011 WCSF’s performance…or lack there of.
Kobe Bryant, on contrary to popular belief, played below averaged to poor in the most of his Finals appearances.
So annoying
@@massdagod lmao you don't know ball next you gonna tell me LeBron performed well against the spurs and mavs
@@CALI_KINGCFC he knows his stuff. Kobe is the reason the Lakers loss to the pistons in the finals. He was very inefficient at times
@@mxybeyesterdaygrip2568 putting the loss to the pistons solely on Kobe does not even paint a 1/3rd of what happened that series. Let's say Kobe was the reason the Lakers weren't performing what about an answer for the pistons on defense? I blame Kobe for certain things but I can't for that
So sad that even if Steph get 8 they still will find a way to hate #30 will go down in history as the new logo and get a spot above Rushmore of his own
Bryant should be the logo but your right
So right. They will find a way to belittle Steph smh
😂😂😂
fanfiction 😂
Fr
Wildes laughing in the background is one of the best parts of this show 😂
I thought Chris would never stop lol can’t imagine if he ended up sayin “ if Steph wins 8 rings … “ 😭😭😭
I would have threw my phone 😂😂😂💀
He really exposed the Jordan fans on that one. Imagine thinking Steph isn't the GOAT after SEVEN rings and 4 finals MVPs. Basically no human will ever be able to surpass MJ in their eyes. 🤦🏾♂️
@@asieduy yea if Steph won 7 rings and 4 fmvp and wasnt the goat or at least incredibly close idk what people expect from players
@@asieduy He wouldn't surpass Jordan at all tho lol
@@asieduy I mean Nick wouldn't have Steph above Lebron after 6 rings and 3 FMVPs, so he exposed himself/lebron fans lmao. But 7 and 4 would lol
The fact that Kareem and Magic played together is never brought up. But Kd winning with steph is 😆
Funny how nick mentioned it today 😆
I don't have a problem with Kareem and Magic because that pairing happened organic6 through the draft. While I do have a problem with the player empowered Super team spearheaded by LeBron, I don't blame KD because his actions were a response to LeBron's. He just did it better. Had LeBron not done it snd made a spectacle of it with a 1 hour TV special with his, "Not 1, Not 2,..."
KD may have stayed put or moved without noise. However, KD did it. Playing chess while LeBron played checkers. I give much respect to Giannis who truly earned his chip the old fashioned way.
Steph Curry Is watching this and watch him win 2 to 3 more rings!!!
Facts! Lol
I am seriously curious what these clowns will say when Steph got his 5th. Bronsexual will lose their mind for sure 😂
@Aaron9 Lol excuses is a hellava drug!
Recency bias is why I hate the watching the nba sometimes. Curry draymond and all of them getting older and younger teams are emerging in the west and curry is going to win three more rings??? Curry is going to be 35 next year btw
Even if He wins more, he will still not be in the same category as LBJ for the GOAT. Steph only has one finals mvp and Lebron has 4. Curry needs to win at least 3 finals MVP and 5 championships at least.
Everybody that watches this show is gonna become a Warriors fan just so that Nick has to reluctantly call Steph Curry the GOAT 😂😂
No one who knows basketball is ever going to call Curry the GOAT.
@@thomascrowniii1693 what if they won 4 straight? Jordan never did that
@@thomascrowniii1693 You could argue pound for pound he is already the GOAT. Take away MJ's hangtime and Bron's bulldozing strength, and Steph clears them.
@@ursula3438 you gotta take something away from Steph too if you’re taking from everyone else lol
@@yourebreakingmyballs4787 Bill Russell did. No one calls him the GOAT.
Curry 3 rings:
if curry won a finals mvp we can put him on the top 10
Curry finals MVP:
if curry wins another ring we can talk about him being top 10
🤦🏽♂️they always got something to say
Fr
Steph's numbers are great, his win percentage is better, and he's absolutely changed the game. He's up there with Wilt and Jordan for the most influential players.
He hasn't changed the game at all. Stop the Steven A ignorance.
@@keithjoseph128I miss when trolls used to be funny
@@spencerj4677 miss when the media didn't run fake narratives.
I would put Magic and Bird in there as most influential players. Most kids wanted to be one of them when we played pick up. Bird's shooting and Magic's passing was legendary.
Influetial inside the game ? Jordan didnt change the game common men he just make it popular
Nicks all about nuance until it’s time to explain why MJ has more all defensive selections and DPOYs than lebron in less years 🤷♂️
He was a way better defender than Lebron man. Just got to watch their tape and it screams. Jordan was legendary on the ball. Best non big defender I done ever seen by far. Bron a nice help defender in his prime - nothing more - nothing less.
Last 5 years - he can't guard an empty room.
Its not just an award thing - its an ability thing. Jordan could really do it.
And Kobe
@@erikpuka2627 well Jordan only played 15 years if he played 5 more seasons u would probably say the same thing about Jordan tho lebron in his prime is a lockdown defender he should have won dpoy too
Those are media vote based awards lol Jordan deserved more defensive selections tbh but anyone with common sense knows Lebron was robbed of a DPOY award when Marc Gasol won it yet was not even put on the first team all defence list. Also it’s a seasonal award, Bron never had a playoffs where he wasn’t a top defender in his 19 seasons. Jordan was a more consistent defender overall but judging and comparing them based on media votes is kinda weird bruh.
bron is an elite defender who can guard 1-5. also he was robbed of DPOY
Ring counting didn’t start for Jordan, he was widely considered the GOAT in the early 90s. The belief in the 80s was if Jordan won 1 title then he could become the GOAT. It was more widely believed after the back to back and sealed after the 3 peat
yeah MJ wasn't the goat til basically after he retired if we being real *98
@@phatch5444 I watch the NBA since 87...MJ was the GOAT after the first 3peat.
@@thedudeunchained7583 What's crazy is that Jordan at the end of the 80's said that he basically accepted that he might not win a championship by the end of his career. Crazy to hear MJ said something that. I forgot where I saw the interview
@@thedudeunchained7583 definitely
If u really watched 90s ball the media mount Rushmore was bird mj and magic... They didn't start talking greatest of all time till 93.. Then he cemented in 98
"If Steph gets 10 rings, flys to Mars with Elon musk, become a president in 2024, then people will think about putting him ahead of LeBron." - Chris Broussard. 😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣 I swear this is comical segment s
And Steph will still be behind Michael Jeffrey Jordan. 💪
👎🏾
@@rollandcurtis874 and Kobe
They be dickriding Lebron James
@@Kobe8DaGreat24 lol. Not even in the discussion
Jordan was considered the goat because he was the first to three peat in the modern era , something magic bird or Thomas at the time couldn’t achieve. Then he did it again so it was no longer a question. His multiple scoring titles defensive player of the year retiring as the all time leading ppg record holder and others accolades and awards only added to it.
in the expansion era. These ppl today face teams with both unicorn KD and steph on them. Personally i'd appreciate jordan more if he did exactly what he did in the era just before or just after with the emergence of shaq/kobe and athletic guards like iverson as opposed to..
so much of all this, especially in team sports is circumstance.
Not that big a fan of lebron but his run on the cavs would have likely been some sort of 3 peat had it not been for multiple circumstances.
@@bboiblack1948 Jordan made the entire 90s draft class a believer he’s the goat by dominating . Shaq came in 92 kevin garnet 95 Kobe and iverson 96, Tim Duncan and Tmac 97. They all were in the league and witnessed Jordan win multiple rings back to back to back.
@@bboiblack1948 🤫🤫 people don’t like the expansion era logic. They’ll tell you you’re wrong, even though the evidence is easily available.
Bill Russell.....two handfuls..and forget modern era..because by using.that terminology you are saying until Mike came nothing counted??? Come on..
@@rahkinggreen64 when I say modern era I mean anything after the 79-80 season when the three point line was introduced. I have mad respect tho for the 60s and 70s players. Especially bill and wilt. I’m not one of those people who believe the 60-70 were plumbers. It’s common since they were great look at Kareem drafted in 69 he only won one ring in the 70s but 5 in the 80s. He also has a losing record against wilt laker teams 14-13. From his perspective the 80s was a cake walk
I hope Curry gets 3 more just so I can see Nick choke on live national television while he proclaims Steph Curry the GOAT. The disrespect Tim Duncan and Kobe are getting is phenomenal. SMH
It's about more than rings though. Team accomplishments is (not Enough )Mt Rushmore material
@@teresa-oj9rq team? yall act like curry just be going along for free championships like he’s not the best player on his team. like no curry no warriors. he makes the warriors a better team
@@BrokeEnt504 no but he only has the rings and best shooter argument… he not top 10 in either of the top categories
@@mr3000sr the ring and best shooter argument? do you watch him play?
@@aatiti2011 yeah I do what’s your point… he’s not top 10 in points rebounds or assists…. That’s what makes the top 5 all time the top 5…. Along with the rings and stuff…. Magic Kareem Jordan Bron ….
"They'll find a way to make this an extra ring for Michael" lol
Like Micheal needs any help whatsoever from Curry. It’s as simple as this. The majority people like me who actually saw Michael’s entire career and Lebron and Kobe’s and now Curry will almost always have MJ ahead. If you were too young to appreciate MJ you might pick Kobe. If you are like 25-30yrs old you might pick Lebron. If you are in your 20’s you probably think it is Curry.
He not lying tho bruh. Mj supporters really a cult and it comes off as cringy
@@levels1937 Idky this is even debated. Every ranking poll that ever comes out has jordan number 1 by a staggering amount, by the players, coaches & fans…
@@MR.__G It’s debated along the demographics I showed. In another 10-20 years when the people who are in their 20-30’s now are in higher positions in media they will have Lebron and Curry as #1 and #2 it’s already begun really. Nick Wright is just the first wave. I think he was like 14 when Jordan retired the second time. It’s all good I know what I saw and lived through.
Lebron was close but he squandered some opportunities and got checkmated by GSW when they got Durant. There is no shame in that.
@@levels1937 I started watching in 96 and I think the main reason many of us still put MJ ahead of Bron is aesthetics. MJ was just so smooth in his movements they called him "His Airness" and "Black Cat" for a reason. His style made the NBA global and made Kobe, Tmac, Vince, AI, Dwade, Melo etc. wanna copy him (Kobe the closest obvi). Lebron may be just as good at bball than MJ (or even better if you wanna believe Nick and Shannon) but his game is, and please excuse the disrespect, kinda ugly in comparison.
Steph haters sound like what Bron fans think Bron haters sound like.
The LeBron debate wasn’t serious until it got serious. He just happened to fall short.
So the Steph debate is not ridiculous. He’s the one that’s next in chasing the legends. He’s the only one left that can outside of Bron.
With that said, Steph’s odds to improve his resume look really good.
Steph not on that level at all
That loss in 2016, makes it pretty tough for Curry to surpass him. Curry also needs more MVPs
@@willseest3732 it’s almost like the lost in ‘15 with Lebron he lost his guys in a crucial series and or game and lost if draymond doesn’t get suspended they would def close it out in 6 but to los him and they win game 5 gave them all the confidence in the world to be like we can do this but no to belittle what Bron did he played the greatest basketball I’ve ever seen 3 games in a row
@@willseest3732 LeBron has more stains on his resume tho. the lost to Mavs is unforgivable I'm sorry. He's been swept in the finals, and this year just failing to make the playoffs with a stacked team.
@@drkdze by using your criteria.... 2016 is the biggest argument against steph even being in the conversation, losing like that "I'm sorry, it's unforgivable"
LePrincess needs to jump teams, cry when looses and trade his team to try and win
Curry changed the game the last 3 decades with his offensive, LePrincess changed the game with jumping teams and trading players when looses
Also, people don't realize his team jumping caused KD to go to the Warriors, so there's that too...
🤦♂️ I'm both a MJ and LBJ fan, think it's dumb people act like they can't appreciate both... but Jordan is the best player I've ever seen 💯 if u didn't see him maybe u don't understand what u missed
Antoine barely had Steph top 30 a month ago, so I think he should sit this one out
Hey man maybe with that playoff run and the title and Finals MVP....he MIGHT move him to 29 lmao.
better to have him top 30 instead of top 12 or 10
@@cogginbenton so you think the 2x MVP, 1st unanimous MVP, 4x champ, 1x finals MVP, 2x scoring champ, 1x steals leader, centerpiece of a dynasty, and the best shooter ever is closer to 30 than 12? You are out of your mind.
@@HatGuyLovesthe49ers look at the guys he’s played with, when he’s had success and when he hasn’t had success.
not even a month ago. in the finals he had him in the 20s
Wildes has a point. It’s not about having more rings, BUT Steph would’ve won them “on Lebron’s watch.” Something to think about.
Good point. But I hold the Mavs loss against Lebron. The 3 losses against the Warriors in the finals. Not so much.
Curry finally the best player in a finals series 👏
bron is 37…
@@bb-lq6dm and '14 against the Spurs too.
I mean, when you create one of the top 5 teams to ever grace an NBA court, I think you have to win a couple rings.
There has only been 1 that was really on lebrons watch that he could've done something about, and that's this season.
The first one, kyrie and love were both hurt.
The 2nd and 3rd was one of the most talented teams to ever play on the court together.
Curry: 4 titles in 12 years / James: 4 in 19 years. Wright TRY at least to be reasonable
Asking Nick Wrong to show objectivity when discussing Lebron is virtually impossible lol.
If KD didn't join the Warriors Lebron would be sitting at 5 or 6 rings EASILY
Who cares, he still ain’t better bron.
Simply put who says Tim Duncan is better than Lebron James?
The answer is the minority. We acknowledge team greatness plays into winning championships until we start talking about Michael Jordan which is Nicks point
@UCPItZf7liabSel9cbkiV3Aw Lebron is a bad defender. Stop it. Everybody gets whatever they want vs him. They just hid his flaws. And he can't shoot much either. They got to space the floor and let him drive in an empty lane and kick it out to legendary 3 pt shooters cause he got limitations. They hide him on defense. You never had to worry about that with Duncan. For his position - he had way less flaws.
BUT tIM dUNCAN is better than Bron. That's the point
@@erikpuka2627 bro I honestly feel like you don’t watch basketball, if you wanna say that about his lakers years then yes, but Lebron was a lockdown defender in his time in Cleveland and Miami
@@erikpuka2627 Casual. Not taking away from Duncans defensive impact, he was a PF who anchored the defense. But saying LeBron is a bad defender is laughable. Sure, if you nit pick certain years and talk about him now when he's past his prime with the 2nd most miles on his legs of any player in history. There was a 5-6 year stretch where he was probably the best perimeter defender in basketball, 2009-2013, and even 2014. Finished 2nd in DPOY to Peak Dwight in 2009 and 2nd in 2013 to Marc Gasol (who didn't even make All-Defensive 1st Team, most agree he got robbed). He has a few other Top 5 DPOY finishes as well. You don't do that by not being an ELITE defender. All the film and defensive metrics back it up, he was a monster on that side of the ball. Elite perimeter defender, help defender, team defender, and solid 1 on 1 defender. Guarded 1-5 effectively for a few years, especially in Miami. Locked up elite PGs in the playoffs, D-Rose in the Conference Finals, Tony Parker in the Finals, did a good job on the best forwards in the league, and even managed to do a decent job on certain Centers. Prime for prime, LeBron was amazing defensively. And saying they had to "hide him on defense" is hilarious lmao. They never did that for LeBron, especially in his prime.
@@bigwill9910 data still says he’s a net positive on defense even on The Lakers lol.
I stopped listening to AW’s takes ever since he said Steph is only in his top 30
That's high I have him top 100
he's never been anywhere closer to curry's journey, he just does have the same experience and views in terms of success, curry is so out of his league and he can never understand who curry is, how he did it, why he succeed.
@@Kobe8DaGreat24 I have you on my top 10 clown list
I love it when Nick and Chris debate about MJ vs Lebron 😂😂
Kobe better than LeBron anyway but Steph can become better than LeBron if he keeps winning and win more than LeBron
Explain to us why Kobe is better than LeBron as a player
@@tigerscott5929 He just has the killer instinct and will to win and more skilled and his game looks better than LeBron and he's more of a leader he just is I can go on and on but that's My opinion and you have yours but both players are great but if you ask me who I rather have on my team I'm picking Kobe everytime
@@timothybrooklyn3496 I don’t agree at all about him being more skilled and having a better looking game. I loved watching Kobe growing up and I have him in my top 5. But it’s just not true that he was more skilled or talented than LeBron. Kobe had the work ethic and the will to win. I’ll agree to that. But to act like LeBron doesn’t have the will to win either is a little off. And to act like LeBron isn’t the better overall player with a game and a skill set that we’ve never seen before and that we’ll likely never see again is ridiculous. The leadership aspect is up for debate but I wouldn’t mind anyone arguing for either person. But if I’m asked to select the better overall player for my team, someone with the more complete package and someone who can literally do anything you ask him to, it’s obviously LeBron. Kobe had scoring on LeBron but that’s really about it as far as game. LeBron is a better rebounder, passer, and he’s more efficient.
@@tigerscott5929 Is his defense better? Is he more reliable in the clutch? I definitely don't believe he's more skilled than Kobe. But I'm not a LeBron hater he's a great player I just don't believe he better than a few players
Love how the so called analysts always try to prop up Lebron. 2015 "Gsw win cause Kyrie and love hurt". 2016 iggy and bogut out with injury. Steph was still injured. "GSW meltdown". Funny how narratives changed history. We all saw the master of Fopping Leflop. We all saw the phantom fouls called on GS. We all saw Lebron throw Draymond down no fouls. We all saw Cleveland tossing around 100lb steph no fouls. We all saw the bogus suspension.
Wait, we really comparing bogut and iggy being out to kyrie and love being out?
@@jasperegan3625 go look at them finals again bogut was a terrible injury for lebron to win easy cuz no rim protector
The thing about Steph's injury is that while he did get hurt in the first round, he came back and dropped an OT scoring record against Portland and balled out against OKC in the WCF to close them out. He was definitely close to 100%
The league didn’t want the Warriors to be champs.. period.
@@hijodejames A sprained mcl is what kept kris Middleton out of the playoffs so no Steph wasn’t close to 100%
Going down 3-1 in a NBA finals, and then getting one of the opposing teams starter suspended for game 5, and winning the finals by 4 points in game 7 isn’t decimating the team.
getting back to back 40 point games in close outs for the warriors. then dominating game 7 with a 27 point triple double is youre a causal.
Kevin Love got injured for one game, so it's equal. Don't kick people in the nuts and you won't get suspended.
lebron lead both teams in every stat. he decimated them
@@tiktokexposed898 Stats 🤣
The difference is steph won all of his while Lebron was playing at a high level. No one won more while Jordan played
Lol what?? MJ didn’t win 15 rings
@@D-money813
Barkley, Malone, Stockton, Kemp, Hardeway, Miller,...think otherwise.
@@D-money813 you're exactly right Jordan won 6 out of 15 years which means 9 years someone else won.
@@jeru6722 You're missing the point which is no other player got more than Jordan's 6 while he was playing
@@Joeyz94z the nba wasn't loaded with talent like it is today plus every team basically stayed the same for at least 3 years in which the Bulls was the best team every time in the finals he won 5 titles against opponents at .500 or less. Plus Golden State and the rest of the NBA was building teams to go against Lebron hence KD and the Bulls got 6 not just Jordan and nobody likes to admit the NBA was trash except about same 6 or 7 teams for 12 years I was watching back then not hearsay or highlights Lebron plays tougher teams better competition better athletes when he retire then we can access it better but for now stay tuned he'll get 2 more
We actually dont know if you can build a championship team around lebron because its never happened! All he's ever done is put together super teams.
Lmao
U should delete this comment
Yeah because the first 7 years of Lebrons career was wasted on the cavs who failed to put a championship roster around Lebron. Even with that being said he still dragged a bunch of bums to the finals.
Steph Curry revolutionized the game on the court. Lebron revolutionized the game off the court in terms of taking control of your career.
And Michael Jordan revolutionized the game both on and off the court, thus Michael Jordan is head and shoulders better than both Steph and LeBron and both guys know that the world to this day still has never seen anybody like Michael freakin’ Jordan aka The GOAT!
@@rollandcurtis874 🤡 Head and shoulders?
@@rollandcurtis874 I completely agree. I was just stating that in the context of today. MJ is the goat. He is the standard of greatness. He is the true NBA logo over Jerry West.
Nick is wrong. MJ actually has LeBron beat in nearly every advanced stat. So, the analytics aren't really favoring LeBron.
He was talking about Steph but mj has slightly higher stats against far worst competition not a good argument
@@taheemtownsend1003 I was referring to Nick saying LeBron has the best analytics in history, which includes MJ. And MJ did not do it against weaker competition. I don't know where you got that nonsense from. The East was the best conference during MJ's time, so MJ was going through the gauntlet every year just to make the playoffs and reach the Finals. But advanced stats are focused on the regular season, which is what Nick was referring to. Again MJ has him beat in most advanced stats. But I'd mostly like to know how MJ was playing worse competition in the regular season.
@@taheemtownsend1003 you definitely haven't watched ball past 2010 and it shows
@@sandman1008 lies lol MJ played far weaker competition in the finals than LeBron James. LeBron played KD and the warriors which were the greatest team we had ever seen assembled
@@mxybeyesterdaygrip2568 Notice in my comments, I specifically mentioned the Eastern Conference, and MJ having to go through the gauntlet just to REACH the Finals. I said it that way specifically because I agree in the Finals, LeBron faced tougher competition.
However, that was in large part because MJ would typically face his toughest competition in the East playoffs. Whereas LeBron had an easy ride through the East until reaching the Finals, MJ would have to face stiff competition in the East just to reach the Finals.
I am a firm believer that if LeBron had played in the West his whole career, he would not have made it to 10 Finals. I think he would have made it to 4 or 5 Finals. However, he would be 4-0 or 5-0 in the Finals. We don't have those same questions for MJ. For those 6 full seasons, we know that he would have gone to the Finals 6 times, and won all 6, regardless of what conference he was in.
Jordan just has a greater resume than James
5 MVPs, 6 FMVPs, 6 Titles, 10 scoring titles, etc.
In a less talented era soo
Yeah in the 90s lol
Jordan also has better advanced metrics and classic 8 stats as well.
You can see it written on all their faces 🥴 that was a mic 🎤 drop ending there by Nick! 😅👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Any statement that starts with "I don't care what he does, he will never be..." is purely driven by a preference instead of objectivity.
nah, is was not a mic drop...it was easy for Nick to say since it is a scenario that is really unlikely to play out, so he does not risk anything...
@@georgeth4421 if it was easy to say then Broussard wouldn't have done the opposite.
That means it’s too late. Steph went wrong asking kd to join and taking a backseat! He was supposed to comeback and take it from bron but it spelled fear begging kd to come tbh
Yea you can tell it's purely driven by preference rather than objectivity. The fact that they're saying (except for Nick) Steph can never move up past mj and lebron regardless of how much he wins shows they just want MJ to be #1 forever and maybe Lebron #2.
Nick towards the end is the only one being objective. If Steph ends with 6 or 7 and LeBron doesn't win any more, I think its only fair to put Steph ahead of LeBron AND if he wins final MVPs the rest of the way, ahead of Jordan too.
If Steph wins 6 rings in the modern NBA where the competition is absolutely insane with so many elite players, yeah he's absolutely in the goat conversation.
No he’s not cause it’s ring culture. lebron has been a far better player for longer w more all nba first teams and more FMVPs and regular season MVPS. Rings aren’t the only thing that matter but stephen a and other media heads have made it seem like that. Steph will never be lebron even tho they both top 10
@@TheBlackestKnight21 I never said it's the only thing that matters. But if curry keeps winning then you absolutely have to acknowledge his greatness. People act like winning titles is easy when it's clearly not
@@kourt2469 it’s easy when you have a super team
@@kondamusa7553 so LeBron didn't go to Miami? Oh ok 🤡
@@kourt2469 Exactly. I think people of got curry is younger than bron and has more time in his career left being a shooter. If he keeps winning chips and adding accolades he can def overtake bron. Every times he makes a 3 he sets a new record for crying out loud!
The issue is Lebron isnt in the convo with MJ or Steph, Magic or Bird as Championship Team Leaders. The problem is Lebron leap frogged a lot of players when he needed 2 allstars to win rings and easy eastern conference and if his finals opposition was a better TEAM he gets excuses. Lebron is a great player. His legacy is durability and longevity NOT being a CHAMPION.
oFc, if Lebron was Steph he would have trade himself away from GSW after that KD and Klay's injury
Not in the conversation?! You just described literally every person who has ever won multiple titles. It baffles me that people say that LBJ needed two other all-stars, but everyone else in history needed at least two other all-stars to do the same thing. You don't win more than one title without consistent all-stars. Ever. And I don't know who you're talking about as far excuses, but LBJ is far and away the most scrutinized player in history.
@@cldaniels7632 facts
Exactly! MJ, Pippen, and Rodman are 3 Hall of Famers that played together. Didn't Steph meet with KD after getting smashed by the G.O.A.T.
It hurts him now not later, this man is winning on LeBron James watch, and he's doing this with lesser talent than LeBron James had. It is impressive on all fronts. Stephen Curry also is a little man in a big man's game and he has out performed his contemporaries. It is allot to consider, and LeBron James ranking shouldn't be that high, when a contemporary has the same amount of rings and is quite likely to succeed him in titles. It must be given high regards and consideration.
So lebrons watch is his whole career? Mjs watch is only the 6 years he won?
Nobody ever brings up the fact that lebron was trying to recruit kd when he went to the warriors. Nobody wants to touch that
MJ doesn't need any help with the 🐐 debate. Everybody knows MJ is the 🐐 Some people, like only a couple people, try to say MJ ain't the goat. Only a couple people
So if Steph finishes with 7 titles and 4FMVPS, Nick will put him ahead of Lebron but Jordan having 6 titles and 6 FMVPS doesn’t put him ahead of Lebron?? 🤔 How does that even make sense?
I agree
If he did that he'd be over jordan and lebron.
Yea because Jordan wasn't the better player. And he played weaker competition
Players who was mediocre at best trying to say Steph ain't top 10.
If he top ten who you replacing him with
wait chris really did expose himself saying if steph wins 7 rings he still won't put him ahead of mj. he's only got like 5 years left. if he wins 4 rings in 6 years after he already had 3, he should be the goat lol
He’d certainly be in the top 3 convo with Jordan, Lebron, Kareem for sure lol. That’s unlikely but it’s fun to speculate.
Fmvps,rbds,Defensive teams etc
It's only about rings for mj in a good way .4-6 to descredit LeBron
He got on a plane to get KD. LeBron disqualified for the same reason. He called wade. Competitive spirit matters. He was scared of a healthy cavs team.
If he wins 7 i'd easily put him close or even equal to MJ as the GOAT. But won't happen.
@@thelight3547 Let's not do that because I'm sure had LeBron known that Wade's injuries would keep him in and out of the lineup that may affect the decision to go. We know the Cavaliers front office isn't the best, and there was no Pat Riley or Phil Jackson. Secondly, recruiting to Cleveland is hard..no one wants to live in Cleveland as opposed to some of these other organizations.
“IF HE GETS SEVEN!!!!!!” 😂😂😂😂
frankly, if curry really can get 7 rings and is the best player for those 3, ill put him over Lebron even tho its obvious Lebron is the more complete and dominant player individually
@@shawnchia3611 its not obvious he’s not. Curry is so good these morons are claiming Steph has to get 3 more titles than Lebron to be better? That’s foul. Curry is more complete he plays better D than Lebron, he plays on the ball and he’s off the ball and don’t don’t need to bandwagon franchises too to get 4 rings.
@@Commentsofthemonth plays better defense than bron 😂😂🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
@@Commentsofthemonth bro stay off the drugs
@@youraverage90sguys7 yeah he bugging for that
Having a rival match/surpass you in rings doesn't look good in your GOAT case. Michael never allowed his rivals anywhere near his ring count, that's why he's the GOAT. He dominated his competition.
This is my favorite argument, do people realize MJ played 15 seasons in the NBA but only has 6 rings, what do we think happened the other 9 times?
@@jamesadegboye7378 adding to that, its funny the 80 was the better decade, he wasnt doing anything, and 90s, when players openly admitted, and there are written records in newspapers, that it was weak diluted era due to expansion, he started winning then
that's fair, but curry winning 6, changing the history of basketball (which Jordan didn't do) puts him ahead of Jordan easily. I don't believe he will win 6 tho,
@@jamesadegboye7378 Facts Mj meat lovers just brush that aside😂💯
@@jaylenflanagan1295 also really want to dismiss what a overwhelming superteam he had
Stephs doing it in an era where free agency is at its greatest and players are actively teaming up or signing vet minimums to get a ring. Obviously he benefited from it as well, but if he ends up with 5 or even 6 during this era of talent, he deserves to at least have a seat at the table
Mmm yea but Steph ain’t have to play any of those teams this ring
Boston arguably had the harder path and looked gassed at the end HOWEVER! Steph did beat all the young top up and coming talent and teams that will be getting rings and that’s arguably more impressive because the league is so much more than just a top heavy league now
Now he's *arguably* top 10, *definitely* top 15. But if he happens to win one more, he's *definitely* top 10. It's that simple
Nah to be fair you talked down this era on the “teaming up and signing minimums” (which I understand) then brushed pass him benefiting. Literally no one was beating KD steph Klay Draymond in the finals. NO ONE EVER. They were selfless played good enough defense and obviously had lethal weapons 1-5 (wiseman) with that being said you gotta take away the two rings he got with KD. So Steph has two and we will see if he can win 3 more lol
@GG GG Bron never beat a healthy Steph Curry so your point is invalid 😘
@@shivumagarwalcavs 2016
Chris just proved everyones point lol If Curry wins 7 rings and 3 to 4 finals MVPs and you still say he isn't better than Jordan or Lebron. That's the type of Bias stuff that irritates people suddenly rings wouldn't matter because He would have more than MJ is what Chris is saying . Chris wants to be apart of Michael Jordans media Entourage so bad lol
For me Bron and curry are at the same level now, if curry wins 5, then he jumps one and the conversation will be who's better Jordan or Curry, if he wins 6 or 7 we're getting into Tom Brady's territory. Which won't happen because of free agency, but funny idea tho.
Chris has never just made the rings argument. Only Skip makes that argument in the major media. It's a combination of things that in my opinion make MJ the GOAT. The winning is just part of the equation. MJ has more MVPS(5-4-in 7 less full seasons played), finals mvps(6-4), titles(6-4), DPOY's(1-0), scoring titles(10-1), steals titles(3-0), PPG, FT%, PPG in playoffs. Lebron is 2nd on my list behind him but he is hurt by a couple things(that awful Mavs series), and his free throw shooting in clutch situations.
@@phillipgoat00 People will still diminish Curry's 2 rings with KD for being a superteam. But for some reason, Brady with arguably the best offensive weapons ever assembled and a top 10 defense gets a pass with that 7th ring. I don't think the difference between 6 and 7 is much when you have players from various sports with more (Russell with 11 nba titles, Richard with 11 stanley cups).
Because he isn't he's always had 4-5 all stars that okay really good D out him on an average team dude never wins anything. He's a great shooter that's it .
@@phillipgoat00 u don’t know basketball lol
I’m a Steph fan, but they both are great. Do people realize that since 2011, last year was the only year that the Finals didn’t feature LeBron or Steph. Why is Toine Walker dismissing Steph like he’s average. He has No objectivity, because he said no matter what Steph does. No objectivity.
he saying steph is not on bron level
@@Davidm-ou5mo and he definitely right
2021 finals no Lebron or Steph
@@Davidm-ou5mo There'll be such discussion *IF* Steph wins more than Bron. Whether you like it or not.
Steph isnt even close to Lebron. Any kind of argument that tries to insinuate so is absolutely absurd.
If you took out Curry and replaced him with Lebron on the 2021-22 Warriors team, I don't think they end up winning the Championship this year. I think a Lebron lead Warriors team would have lost to the Grizzlies or the Mavericks.
0:26 Nicks face that we’re even having this conversation 😆
Broussard showed the actual ability to be analytical. That's what makes him the easiest to listen to.
WALKER BE HATING ON STEPH! HE HATE LIGHTSKIN DUDES 😂🤦🏾♂️
This segment was amazing!!! Very funny and entertaining!
Walker and allot of players like him are hating they are bigger stronger faster and still aren’t half the player Curry is
Preach
Man we’ve seen some great players, BIRD, MAGIC, KOBE, SHAQ, CURRY, DUNCAN, KD, ETC, but the fact of the matter is that both MJ and Lebron dominated the sport at a level that none of these other guys can even touch. They’re both the GOAT. Two different eras. Complete and utter domination. It’s really just who you personally like more.
i woulndt say dominated. lebron lost more finals than he's won
@@camdonking1919 he’d have two more chips if KD didn’t join a 73-9 team and create the greatest super team ever assembled. Lost 1 game TOTAL in 2017 playoffs. Swept the 2018 finals. KD Warriors were in a league of their own. Y’all can’t forget that. MJ never played a team like that. That’s just facts.
@@camdonking1919 yes but when you had context this argument is dumb ! We was the best player in this finals most of time when he lost ! Stop being dunb on purpose to make your argument !
Kobe won 5 rings in 10 years that's dominant and when he wasn't winning he was setting records for most consecutive 40 point games most consecutive 35 point games most consecutive 30 point games along with dropping 81 along with a record of 27-14 in the playoffs vs teams with 50 wins or more vs LeBron record of 10-10. Kobe is the example of dominant
@@camdonking1919 if that’s the case then for Mike was a loser 9 out of the 15 seasons he played. If you’re only dominant 40% of the time then are you really dominant? See how stupid that sounds
Moral of the story, Steph go win 7 XD
Nick, Michael was averaging 32/6/5 then in the playoffs of 1993 he averaged 35/6/6 to cap off a 3 peat which Lebron still hasn’t done. You don’t do research😂
LeBron is the ONLY player to average a triple double in the NBA finals the ONLY player to lead EVERY player in EVERY major statistical category on BOTH teams in the finals ....you don't do research 😂😂😂😂😂😂🖕
It Jordan was limited to doing that only with Pippen. Without him Jordan couldn’t make it out of the 2nd round. This is such a fact that though Jordan signed a bunch of one year contracts, to keep,winning he kept resigning with Pippen. WHENEVER Jordan played without Pippen, relative to the finals, Jordan couldn’t even qualify for the Finals much less play in them and win. Lebron on the other hand is not limited in such a way. Bron has won a ring on EVERY team he’s played for and in both conferences. Something Jordan was not able to do.
Lol you really didn’t grasp what he was talkin about?
@@santosonly7 same with every star who won, Kobe didn’t win without shaq or gasol, Bron never won without dwade, Bosh then kyrie and love, now he can’t win without AD. Everyone needs someone as a partner. The bulls drafted Scottie it’s not like he was a star and they traded for him
@@jamarjackson6745 I did, my answer is the same wassup
I'm tried of yall comparing MJ & LeBron when they never played against each other.
I think it helps lebron tbh it would've had 2 more ring if KD didn't got to the warriors or He lost to arguably the best team of all time top 2 three-point shooters of all time and one of the best scores of all time KD. With a great defensive mind in draymond and an amazing back-office and coaching staff.
Serious question. How do you know he would’ve had 2 more rings if KD didn’t go there?
@@ryandavis6290 because when healthy the Cavs proved they were better than the Warriors.
@@DillonDees how did they prove that? By beating them in a 7 game series by single digits. I’m not even gonna take into account all the circumstances that surrounded that finals. There is nothing that indicates that either team was so much better than the other that it was a forgone conclusion who would have won. If the warriors and cavs are both healthy and have all there players the whole series in 2017. It’s anyone’s series.
@@DillonDees but if Bron didn't join the Heat - he 'd have 0. He 'd be a skinny Karl Malone with sone MVPs and some high all time scoring rankd
@@erikpuka2627 I mean, he weighed more than Karl Malone for most of his career and they are roughly the same height so I’m a little confused about the “skinny” part lol. And how shocking, a good team is needed to win in a team sport, crazy stuff there lol.
This isn’t even a conversation
Lebron ICED game 7 with a free throw? I think Kyrie's 3pointer iced it. Nick needs a CAT scan lol
Championships are a part of the GOAT factor… only Skip beats the 6 chips and 6 fMVPs exclusively. Most others say the it’s those things AND accolades… AND per game stats… AND per game metrics / analytics… AND clutch performances… AND eye test, and, and, and.
Nick suffers from recency bias. It’s what he saw, so it’s all he really knows. He wants to say he was there and saw the best ever in real time.
Imagine if Hakeem and Karl Malone teamed up in their prime. That's what KD and Steph did. The 2nd and 3rd best players teamed up to stop the best player in the league.
20 years from now, no one except "old heads" will remember that. Just like no one talks about Moses Malone teaming up with Dr. J. No one talks about how the Lakers got lucky enough draft Magic when the had Kareem. No one cares about Wilt actually playing with other HOFers. Nuance gets lost in time.
So did lebron d wade and bosh
fax
@@everardoalvarez1061 bosh was maybe a top 30 player lol, and wade fell off quick
@@everardoalvarez1061 thank you. Lebron fanboys won't mention he joined another top 3 player and top 15-20 player. He choked hard against the Mavs. Imagine KD or Steph pulling a 2011 Lebron and losing one of those finals. Lebron not getting 3 or 4 rings with a superstar Heat team is on him and hurts his GOAT case immensely.
Lebron had Wade and Bosh 💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯 and only got 2😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 come on now n didn’t even hit the big shots Kyrie Ray Allen save him
I think some people forgot that once upon a time 😂😂. And lost to one man named "the german jesus" Dirk
Winning 2 is impressive when you consider after 2012 wade busted his knee and was washed and bosh barely put up 15pt with the heat.
Nick about to cry 😢
Nick is rewriting history again. When Jordan got his 3 rings, he was not consensus goat. People was debating at the time among Jordan, Kareen and Magic. When he got his 5th, there was not much argument anymore.
Who cares he should’ve been consensus GOAT at the time tbh, Jordan was arguably the best player in the league from his 3rd season but because of politics we have to wait for team accolades and success to be logical about judging these players individually? That’s weird. As for Lebron he should be in the GOAT debate based on his individual production throughout his career instead of sticking to politically correct nonsense like mainly judging players off of how many rings they have. We wouldn’t have had Lebron on Miami or KD on the Warriors as well as all this player movement if it wasn’t for those stupid narratives either…
@@YungLanxx yes because the list is based on legacy, not talent or dominance in a vacuum. LeBron is not top 3 in terms of pure basketball. Just like Durant is not 12th or 15th in terms of pure basketball.
@UCpwOfs8DLpHtmHzkKE1Sb8A he has taken an easier path and done worse. He never went up 3-1 on the warriors like KD, yet benefitted from the Draymond suspension that should’ve happened during the KD series when he was kicking Adams in the nuts on multiple occasions. He went 1-8 against the KD Warriors that were about to get smacked 4-2 by the CP3 Rockets before CP3 went down and missed games 6-7.
LeBron should’ve been the GOAT, but has failed enough times to be pushed out of the MJ discussion and is a longevity 2nd tier “GOAT” like Kareem.
Went against superior competition? He had superior teammates as well.
MJ could have easily lost against MVP Barkley or MVP Malone and blamed Scottie or Horace or Rodman. MJ could have easily afforded 1 meltdown in the finals. It simply didn’t happen.
It’s simple. If LeBron lowered his shoulder and/or stiff armed his way to the paint at the end of games like he does for 3 1/2 quarters, he’d be the GOAT. He’s taller than Jordan. He’s faster than Jordan. He’s more durable than Jordan. He should have the most FT attempts in the 4th quarter in Finals history, but he doesn’t because he stops being a top 5 player at the end of games.
So now it’s tainted to the point where the narrative is becoming more longevity based, which Kareem has already done.
He even contradicted himself from what he thought a few years ago. He argued that Lebron could be argued over Jordan cause when Jordan got 3 allegedly people called him the greatest. Nick Wrong telling so many lies he can’t keep ‘em straight.
@@18brandon92 lol name three players who are better then Lebron in the key areas scoring passing/playmaking defence rebounding.
Twan and Nick is right tho .. and mj did get the statue he only had 3 rings at the time, goal post always gets moved .. gil and tmac said it the mj media would never put nobody above mj no matter wat- same way chris said if curry gets 7 he still wont put him above mj when in all reality for curry to pull that off is goatish
The statue is irrelevant. It was put up in Chicago. Of course they did that. Citing a the statute is a distraction.
@@Says_me the statue said goat .. imagine they had a lebron statue wit goat wen bron got 3 titles would it be irrelevant? I dont think so everybody would go crazy
fax
MJ was seen as the GOAT on eye test alone by a lot of fans before he even won his first chip. People were just in awe of how beautiful he made the game look.
@@nbatalk714 he didn’t have a statue is just had a banner on the arena you could see from Mars
It absolutely does, GOAT means complete dominance, if you remember Jordan's retirement speech, he said off course they don't want me to retire because they want to get past me, but let me remind you they could never get past me, it was complete Bulls dominance during that period. Curry is challenging LeBron's dominance and is on at par with him, there was no other superstar comparable during MJ's dominance.... it's not even an argument anymore
Lebron would have two more titles if KD didn’t go and join a 73-9 team and create the greatest super team ever assembled. The warriors lost 1 game TOTAL in the 2017 playoffs. Swept the 2018 finals. Jordan never had to contend with a team like that. I think they’re both the GOAT, just giving you some perspective.
@@limpsnips8876 should've, would've, could've MJ could have had 2 more if he didn't retire the first time but hey it didn't happen
@@ceez4781 Not true. Hakeem is 6-1 against MJ and the Bulls had no one to stop him. There’s no guarantee that Bulls beat Rockets in 94 & 95even if they had Jordan. Also, MJ lost to Shaq & Penny in the 95 playoffs but ppl act like it never happened
@@limpsnips8876 he wouldnt and without the nba reff interference he would have won the one in cleveland or the one in maimi
@@limpsnips8876 Lebron would have 0 if he didn't go team hopping
That was a slick upper cut Nick wright through at Chris broussards take at the end of the segment 😂
Curry ha 4 rings and they are having a debate if he wins 7!?
Curry needs more mvps more fmvps more 1st team all NBA selections etc to make this a legit debate. LeBron has also made all NBA defense like 7x, Curry has never made all NBA defense once, not one time in his whole career..
I know that Antoine Walker did it at the highest level, and has forgotten more about that life than I will ever know, but hearing someone of his caliber basketball-wise speak so dismissively about one of the greatest to ever do it just…doesn’t sit well with me.
hes so clearly biased
Nah, we’re talking about top 10 all time. Literally since the beginning of the sport. Steph should be top 15 now probably closer to 10, but he’s not in that stratosphere
@@jsmooth8655 He’s top 10 for me. I don’t see 11 guys in NBA history definitively better or more accomplished than him. Steph gets penalized because he’s a 6’3”, 200 lb point guard and his dominance confuses people. He’s not supposed to be what he is. But that’s part of what makes him revolutionary. It’s just amusing to me how, now that he’s done the one thing so many said he couldn’t do, there are still those in serious denial.
@@brandoncrockett9266 that’s the point, don’t get it twisted steph is 9-12 range but and kobe and lebron and others were just far better players than him. 4 rings but 1 FMVP? Did lebron ever play w a player better than him to get those accomplishments? Lebron carried a far worse team in his first stint in cleveland to multiple ECF and a finals and The 1 year steph had a awful team they miss the playoffs. Steph is an all time great but to put him on LEBRON level when he’s had a far better organization and team built around him is insane to compare.
Some of the worst "analyst" on television are recent players. But so many ppl wanna talk about how you can't talk about it if you didn't play it. Lmao it's funny to me
How is it ok for LBJ to be less achieved than MJ and be the “Goat” but not Curry over LBJ? yall literally just like LBJ more, there is no logic otherwise
If im not mistaken people had LBJ over MJ after his second in Miami. There is no logic its just that you like LBJ. Curry beat LBJ 3 times, the time he lost it took heroic efforts to beat him with another super star by 4. Like be real!
@@xpaullemusic9885 nobody had Lebron over MJ back then. Lebron started to make is entry in the GOAT convo after 2016.
Lebron is not “less achieved” than MJ. You can just look at rings and be done with it but you would put all the context aside. Context is what complete the story ! There is a reason why Lebron’s 2016 ring is more important than let’s say his second one with Miami ! Context.
@@johnwick8516 Lebron never carried a team to a championship. Never. Not even close. Never like Kawhi in 2019 or Jordan everytime or Shaq in 2000 or Wade in 2006 or Hakeem in 94 or Dirk in 2011 or Giannis in 2021. Most those guys WITHOUT A SUPERTEAM. Always on superteams BARELY outplaying and barely outscoring the 2nd option by like 2 ppg or sometimes even less like Pierce in 2008. Most he outscored his 2nd option was ny 6 in 2012 and thats it. Out of top 10 Finals MVPs that outscored their 2nd option the most in a finals series Lebron is nowhere to be found even in the top 30. Jordan got 5 of those in top 10 and his 6th one is 13th on that list (1991). Kobe got one in top 10, Hakeem, Wade, Rick Barry, Shaq got the no.1 , Steph even and Jordan got 5. Jordan had to do with HIS OWN SUCCESS way more than Bron had to do with his. OutScored Scottie once by 19 and once by 21. Least he ever outscored him was 11 on 11% better from the field. Thats their smallest margin. Thats lile Bron winning it with Ilgauskas as his 2nd option. Bron Always on big duos and trios barely outscoring the 2nd option and sometimes having a worse FG% and often playing worse defense. In 2011 (didn't win it) he himself turned into the 3rd option. All rings are not created equal. If we going to NITCPICK for the GOAT Arguement - lets nitpick all the way. If we going to nitpick Steph for his lack of finals MVPs - lets nitpick Lebron for barely winning them. There is a difference between carrying YOUR OWN Team and beaing the best player on a stacked team and sneaking by FMVPs.
Btw in 2017 KD outscored Steph by +8.5 ppg (Best bron did was +5.9) and Steph this yrs finals by like 11.5. Both bigger "carry jobs" than Bron ever did. Lets nitpick all the way.
Steph as won 3 rings against Lebron James. Yet with context you’ll know that in all those series Lebron was far better than Steph and in 2 of them Steph wasn’t even the best player on his team.
Steph gets 6 he's in the top 5 easy arguably second to MJ.
Not even close
Robert horry top 5 then? 7 rings? he 2nd to mj or leapfrog him since he got more rings?
Jordan is the GOAT not only because of his 6 rings, but because he ALSO changed the game!!! If you look back at Jordan highlights. I literally looks like he’s a player from the future who traveled back in time and started balling everybody up. And now that’s today’s basketball. Curry has now changed the game again!!
bron is the goat
@@ryedye335 You can’t be the goat when you’ve had the most help of any superstar ever. GOAT General Manager, sure.
@@andres413 he’s literally known for having the least amount of help… he’s played for 19 seasons and has only had all stars for 5 of them… so wtf are you talking about?
wilt exposed michael, he couldnt say anything but laugh, nba changes rules against wilt but in favor of jordan, to make it easier
@@andres413 yeah youre a casual, dont know history of nba at all if thats your argument
Curry will never be ahead of Bron ever stop this
if he wins 6, oh yes he’s ahead of Lebron!
@@anonymoussec5441 nah
This is his very first finals of Curry being the best player on the floor. How are you gonna be better vs Lebron that always outplayed him every time they met in the Finals and half the time they met, Curry wasn't even the best player on his own team?
@@anonymoussec5441 magic & Kobe got 5 & they not above him…. Russell has 11 & he not above Lebron
If curry wins 6 hes ahead of Lebron I’m sorry
It has always been Steph vs. LeFraud. Curry is the only one who challenged LeFraud legacy and popularity. LeFraud had to change teams while Steph stayed with the same team and yes that matters. Steph changed the game. LeFraud took short cuts to solidify his brand.
If they say Kobe is a duplicate of Jordan, how come Kobe is not the second best player ever instead of Lebron?
Thank you
One of the things common among legends is that they all have an era named after them. We are currently in the Steph Curry era and have been for quite sometime now.
If steph wins 7 rings, I would put him ahead of tom brady lmfao. I don't think anyone will win 7 rings ever tho, because free agency is designed to stop that.
Imagine if MJ had an adversary during his era that netted as many championships as him - ppl would be criticizing him endlessly and questioning his dominance.
Steph Curry and the Warriors basically cemented MJ as the GOAT because they ate during the 'Lebron Era' while Jordan basically dominated an entire decade on his own. This year's championship basically proves that Draymond Green's suspension in Game 5 of 2016 was the difference maker which would've put Curry with 5 rings while leaving Lebron with 3.
That's the point people aren't grasping. Cause what would we say if IT and the pistons won 5 championships in the late 80's to mid 90's, with Jordan winning like 3. We may not have IT above Jordan but in 2022 that definitly becomes a topic we're debating.
Magic had 5 , bird and it had more when they were relavant. Mj only started winning after these guys peaked? So what is your point exactly??? They won more then him while they played.
@@khalxd1991 That’d be the equivalent of Lebron and Duncan. Duncan beat Lebron and had more rings similar to how Bird did.
MJ didn’t play 20 seasons. Different eras and Steph’s had the far superior teams outside of 2015
The argument falls aprt when your realize jordan started his career in 1984, not 1991. The Celtics, Lakers and Piston all ATE when Jordan was in the league
Well I think it's an interesting subject, especially as it was brought up to begin with? I think the conversation is going to be getting started in that trajectory. You can't compare the positions, or the power, though the accomplishments and the way in which they're achieved can definitely be something that can be spoken about. We're talking four rings now in 8 years, and Steph looks great still. Who's going to really completely challenge and knock them off in the west next year? The East is going to be wide open, with everybody healthy, on all the previous teams that played this year as well. Giannis will definitely have something to say with Middleton healthy and anyone else they add during the offseason, etc etc. Miami Heat will surely do something to help out Jimmy as best they can. Philadelphia absolutely has to make a hard move this upcoming season for obvious reasons. It's not going to be a given that Boston will not only be there, take the whole thing as well?
Great take on a very possible future outcome.
i never understand how much lebron pays these dude, they will question everything, Steph's rings, Jordan's rings, KD's rings but never Lebron's. lol. The dude went to join Wade and Bosch to win his two rings. Why is that not questionable?
EXACTLY. It's not even about Lebron at this point, but his obnoxious fanbase and media support are too delusional and insufferable.
Nick is worried it's going to be a Curry-Lebron debate no longer a MJ-Lebron debate.
How? Rings ain't it.
@@teresa-oj9rq It will be, especially the fact that Curry is 3-1 versus Lebron. I bet you when if he wins his 5th, Curry fans will be a nightmare for Lebron fans 🤣
Steph did it on his own team. LeBron did it on everybody else's team. That's the difference, nobody wants to play for ol' James anymore. The media circus that surrounds him, people want to play with "easy going" Steph. LeBron is about Hollywood, one man show. Steph is about Basketball an team work.
More difficult to win with a variety of player combinations than it is to win with the team you’ve played on your whole life. Chemistry is not guaranteed unless you’re great.
The real question they should be debating is we're. Do the warriors rank on the greatest teams of all time
Hey Nick, how many teams have come back from a 4-2 deficit in the playoffs?
I love how Americans tends to voluntarily put logic aside when it comes to those discussion to make their argument. Steph has won 4 rings, 3 against Lebron’s CAVS. In all those series the best player between the two was Lebron by far. Then how can you use those events as an argument for Curry being greater than Lebron when if anything those confrontations proved the opposite despite their team results ??
We don’t have to be stupid about this. 😂No knock on Curry by the way but dumb arguments are so annoying !
well basketball is a team sport also it's not one on one the best player is who's better by the team concept.
Because counting stats are one thing, but the other effects the lead player cannot all be quantified as the game is a team sport. So while LeBron may be better on the floor, Curry is clearly a better player to build a franchise around, and both of those things ought to be taken into the calculus of greatness.
At least, that's how I see it. And while LeBron is obviously a better player on the court than Steph, I also think it's just as inarguable that Steph is ultimately a better leader/foundational player.
Winning is more important than stats
Depending on what you mean by being better. Steph is better than Lebron because he can elevates his team way more than Lebron. A lot of basketball fans now only care about the guy who gets the number. That's why a bunch of superstars want to get theirs teaming up with other top players. That Cavs team had Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love. Both are great great players. However, they went 1-3 in series against the Warriors and 7-15 in games.
However, basketball is a team sports. There is a reason that KD flourished in the Warriors but not the Nets nor the Thunder. KD played with better draft prospects but failed to win without Steph while Steph took a bunch of later rounders to 4 NBA titles.
Being better at basketball doesn't mean that you are the one who gets the points, assists, blocks or defensive stops. That's why those two-way player argument is flawed. In the end, you want a player who is easier to build around to elevate a team's chance to win. That's all it is.
So no, just because some people think that Lebron is on the MJ or Kobe tier doesn't make it right. The gap between Steph and Lebron is close and while Lebron has an upper hand on career numbers and longevity, Steph has it on more winning so I would consider them on the same tier.
Big 📠
I don't understand why there having this type of discussion. When you think about MJ and LBJ, you don't put them in the same category. If LBJ is able to win another title or win more title than MJ it won’t erase MJ’s record of undefeated in the Finals and 2 times 3peat. More than that, he is a 9-time scoring champion, 10-time 1st All-defensive team, DPOY, FMVP, All-star MVP, 2-time slam dunk champion etc. No matter what LBJ does on the remaining of his career, he is not be on MJ level or Kobe.
YOU ARE CRAZY! Lebron is 2nd (and will be) 1st in career regular season scoring (he already has more combined points in playoffs and regular season games than ANYONE ELSE in NBA HISTORY! THE ONLY, I REPEAT, THE ONLY player to amass at least 10,000 points, 10,000 rebounds, 10,000 assists. The ALLTIME PLAYOFF SCORING KING, TOP 3 IN ALL TIME 3's made in the playoffs, 18 ALL STAR selections, etc.. SO LBJ a TON of accomplishments that can rival MJ's any day.
John Havlicek 8-0 is undefeated in the Finals. So what!
@@hitek9too255 Hondo criminally underrated
I loved this debate, well done you all.
Chris been killin' Nick, and Rob ...I mean more than usual lately 😂😂🤣
Magic won his 3rd, 4th, and 5th rings on Jordan's watch based on y'all logic.
If you're gonna be that purposely dumb, then Wallace, Billups, Duncan, Dirk, Wade, Steph, Kawhi, KD, Giannis, and KG all got their rings on Lebron's smh. At least Jordan kept it to Magic, Larry, and Thomas
@@gumballwaterson1957 and Hakeem Olajuwon 🤷🏾♂️
@@gumballwaterson1957 Still was on Jordan’s watch
@@robertparker3062 I guess if you want to include '95 as being on MJ's watch, I won't argue.
@@jaylenflanagan1295 Sarcasm doesn't come through well on a post, but the point to me is the logic of using "X player won on B player's watch" hurts Lebron more than the people he's compared to. For me, he's still one of the best players of all time no question despite the blemishes on his resume, but it's a fact that a lot of players ate while Lebron was the top tog.
I like how no one is seriously arguing this and they just need an excuse to talk Lebron GOAT case
Have you ever met a Steph Curry fan? They are definitely arguing this.
@@two-literbowls5195 I was jus coming here to say this but u beat me to it
Yeah I am a warriors fan and I'd say the debate atm is LBJ vs Curry not LBJ vs Jordan. Jordan is in his own as GOAT and LBJ doesn't challenge imo.
I'd say most #30 and GSW fans think the same. Not here to debate it because its not worth time but just saying people are definitely having this debate
@@anabolicchicken5972 LeBron is closer to Jordan than Steph is to LeBron. Which is to say not very close.
@@two-literbowls5195 you know that part when I said I'm not debating it because its not worth it? Yeah maybe read that again. Just giving an example of yes this is what people think
Jordan will always be the GOAT in my eyes. Nothing can ever change that. They have to accomplish everything Jordan did and more and I don’t think we’ll ever see another Player like Jordan in generations to come. That’s how great Jordan was. It’s not even about the rings. That’s just icing on the cake on his resume. It’s overall everything that he did on the basketball court. I’ve never seen anyone like Jordan pass or present. He had the whole package.
Stop dissing Kareem
@@coachlajolla4296 I love Kareem, Magic & Bird too but Jordan still the GOAT
speaking of engravings, who got 'Chosen 1' LITERALLY tatooed on their body?
this is the problem. winning matters. Karl Malone has all the numbers and accolades. In a vacuum, he could be considered the greatest player to ever live. But he never won. how often do you hear him mentioned? so how important are stats really?
that's because he isn't better than Garnett, Duncan or Barkley. he's not top 20 and it isn't because he didn't win.
Everyone in the top 15 has won. At that level of debate, it’s about so much more than winning. If it was winning exclusively, the top 10 would be all Celtics and Bob Horry.
@@PrinceCortezJones barkley never won. and Malone was better. he made 2 finals and lost against jordan
@@camdonking1919 so making the finals and losing puts points on your belt? Well there's no way to say LeBron isn't better than Jordan then. Problem is yall fans just make up different rules for different players and don't keep things objective. By your standards Jordan is nowhere close to LeBron.
they arent, only bronsexuals bring up stats because they have no argument... karl malone a while back shouldve been bronsexuals' goat but he never was for them... LeDefer will never be the goat
I think Lebron is clearly the 2nd best player of all time, he went to 10 finals and won 4.. only thing is Lebron was hopping around from team 2 team desperately.. Steph, Jordan, Magic, Bird, Kobe all did it with the same team that drafted them
I wouldn’t call it desperation when the teams he went to were getting bounced the first round or missing the playoffs for the previous consecutive 4yrs. Dude plays out his contract, see what the team is going to do and if he doesn’t like the direction they are going he goes elsewhere, it’s practically all he can do bc he can’t actually make front office decisions.
Yeah not all those players were blessed enough like Lebron to be drafted to the legendary dynasty that is the Cleveland Cavaliers with the most top tier front office in NBA history.
Warriors in the past decade have shown to be inept with their drafts, coaching staff and development teams, they only spend the most money on rosters in the nba because they’re absolutely garbage.
If only Jordan had a better coach than Phil Jackson and better circumstances throughout the latter half of his career, it’s why he had to leave the Bulls in 98 they never gave him anything to help him win ever.
Magic only had the cheap Jerry Buss and washed Kareem Abdul Jabbar and Norm Nixon to join with as well as Pat Riley he should’ve left for something better immediately.
Red Auerbach is heavily overrated and the Celtics organization did nothing for Bird throughout his whole career all he had was bums.
Shaq being on the Lakers and Phil Jackson coaching only held Kobe back from winning even more, even after those first 2 looong seasons without Shaq, Lakers only got him the least amount of help a superstar ever got.
There’s absolutely no reason Lebron should’ve ever left Cleveland look at his great circumstances you’re absolutely correct. Even him going back to win the championship for them like he promised before going to the even worse Lakers at the time shouldn’t even count since he didn’t stay with them his entire career tbh. You got it.
If he’s 2 it’s not because of that. Kareem won 6 out of 10.
@@YungLanxx Cleveland is not a Dynasty they have 1 NBA championship wtf you even saying
@@thecollectiveconscious just the kind of response I expected from someone with your logic and lack of context, there’s no reason for me to have expected you to grasp sarcasm no matter how hard I pushed it lool
That right there was actually real funny stuff
This is the type of conversation you “stir up” when the only major sport being played is baseball.
The Goat status of MJ is carved in stone, unless a guy like Luka wins 8 rings and 8 finals MVP...or something like that, which is more than highly improvable. But of course if Curry wins another ring he would be closer to Michael that Lebron...that's a fact.