Em1 Mk3 Review for Astrophotography
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- Опубліковано 31 жов 2020
- This is my review and thoughts on the Em1 Mk3 as it pertains to astrophotography. For daytime photography it is a very capable camera and seams to have a balanced set a futures that leaves me wanting nothing. For astrophotography it is the most capable interchangeable lens camera I have ever used.
Tripod Leveling head that I use.
www.ebay.com/itm/185170176713... - Наука та технологія
Thanks for the great review, I am giving up on my EM5 Mark II, and getting the EM1 Mark 3! Good job and great information. Thank you.
Everyone loves looking at the stars and with the EM1-MKIII it gives people like me the opportunity to do some astrophotography, great video, thanks for sharing your expertise
Couldn't agree more! and thanks for the kind words.
Excellent comparison review so thanks for taking the time to put it together. I'm weighing up my next camera which will be for daytime use and astrophotography so your feedback is just what I need. Now to work out whether to go for the OM-D E-M1 Mark III or the E-M1X. Both have Starry Sky AF, Live ND (for daytime use) and Live Composite so equal contenders in those areas.
I am in the market for an Em1X as well but the X does not have the Starry Sky AF yet. Maybe in a latter Firmware it will. For now the Em1.3 is the best things for astrophotography. Hope that helps you out.
Something to bear in mind with the Olympus and Panasonic sensors is they are LMOS. Whilst Sony has been making them, Sony has their own range of CMOS sensors, the LMOS is a Panasonic design, So whilst Olympus does their own thing with them, they are using a Panasonic designed made by Sony sensor. They also use Panasonic batteries. The LMOS sensor is biassed, it will sweep stray electrons off the sensor.
My research showed that the LMOS is just marketing talk. They still call it LMOS but it is really a CMOS
a really excellent review. Thank you.
Thank yo Adrian!
I've just switched from a SonyA7iii to the EM1 Mark iii and the starry af is amazing. The stars and colours are really nice from the Olympus, Sony's always looked weird to me. I've not tried it on one of my scopes yet I've just been using the 40-150mm Pro.
Welcome to the Olympus Family Simon! There is a lot to learn and learning is fun! The 40-150 is a lens I just picked up too. It's actually waiting for me at the house now. Cannot wait to get home. Ill probably do a review on it soon.
Fantastic, v well done!
Great perspective on this! 😀 I would initially assume the sensor’s relative scale can be a factor, with highly magnified subjects in particular. In this case, resolution/noise/area.
I support the gradual improvement of the 20MP density, which to me, seems to be sensible within m4/3 smaller scale. For me, even the tripod bases HR mode has been a fun and easy ‘stacking’ method, I am tempted to try it with an eq. tracking mount.
I think they can get more pixels squeezed on there easy. take a look at phones. They are using 1.4 micron pixels. Thats a lot smaller then the Em1 Mk3s 3.4 micron pixels.
@@TheNarrowbandChannel If you just want more pixels, no problem. If you're not Apple or Google, your main sensor probably has 800nm pixels. Of course, they'll bin four or (Samsung S20 Ultra) nine to deliver a larger shot. That's about 2.4um pixels, same as everyone's 20 megapixel 1" cameras like the Sony RX10. Which would get you to 40 megapixel or so on a M43 sensor. Those are all BSI sensors these days to increase QE. So it's possible.
Looking at it from another direction, Sony's A7IV has a 61.5 megapixel full-frame sensor, with about the same pixel size as the E-M1 Mark I. And yet they're claiming 15-bit DR, of course at low ISOs.
Good video... taught me a few things! And yeah, I just bough the E-M1 Mark III. I haven't done a huge amount of astrophotography, but I some. I fully grok the focus issues, and it's good to know that Starry Sky A.F. really does work.
@@DaveHaynie Hi, I certainly don’t usually, already the 50 and 80 MP multi-sample modes are already there and I use them, but then down sample for viewing.
As noted, above more could certainly be added in theory, but my guess is that density tends to follow/parallel the progress of overall efficiency, for a variety of reasons, and having reached 20MP, it had slowed, so Oly pursued other methods of advancement. JC
@@DaveHaynie I know the latest phone uses 1.4 and 1.6 micron pixels.
@@TheNarrowbandChannel For a long time just about everyone was using 1/2.55" or so sensors, about a 1.4μm pixel size. That's still what Apple and Google use for their main cameras (the other cameras have smaller pixels), though the iPhone 12 Pro Max has a slightly larger 1.7μm pixel size.
A whole mess of phones are using Sony and Samsung sensors like Sony's IMX586, which have 800nm pixel size, but being quad bayer (or tetracell, Samsung's branding), that's a 1.6μm bin, if you're pixel binning. The S20 Ultra has a 108 megapixel, 1/1.3" chip, also with 800nm pixels but a Nonacell CFA, so 3x3 pixels for an effective 2.4μm binned pixel. Which is of course the pixel size on 20 megapixel chips at 1".
Really enjoyed the video and I will reconsider getting the MKIII and use my MK II as a backup. I do have some questions.
- The astro shots were great. what lens did you actually use?
- Interesting discussion on quantum efficiency. Does the MKII have the same value as the MKIII. It also sounds like I shouldn't bother to pick up my E-M5II since it has the same sensor as the old MKI I believe and the additional noise and ISO bump is a non starter
- The heat discussion is great
Thanks!
Thanks Gary. Ya heat is a huge factor here. I am finding that I can take just as good a photos as those Cannon R guys can.
So I mainly used my 100-400 at F6.3 and I also used my one telescope which is a 522mm at f6.3 as well.
The Mk2 and Mk3 do have identical quantum efficiency.
Great job.👍 The quantum efficiency of the sensor in the olympus m1mii/ miii is much higher than that of gh5 81% vs 53%. M1mark I 49% I have a similar impression about the temperature of m1mii and m1miii. People are complaining about this sensor but they have no idea what they are saying. I love this camera and these lenses.
Ps. The maximum shutter speed for the new ff sony and olympus m1 mii / miii is the same 1/8000 for mechanical and 1/32000 for electronic.
You can read the sensor temperature in the rawdigger software(M1mii/iii)
I did try Rawdigger once, but could not get it to start on my MacBook Pro. Could you spot a number of images by temperature in it?
This is utter nonsense as it is actually the same sensor the Olympus only differs for the pixels dedicated to autofocus. it is the same off the shelf Sony sensor that is available for wholesale trade and is identical to the OMD EM1MKII
@@Interceptor121 Not sure I understand? What exactly are you talking about in reference to Kamils posts?
@@TheNarrowbandChannel yes
@@TheNarrowbandChannel Regarding to your question. Unfortunately, this is not possible. After all, it is an interesting software.
Btw This picture of Orion Nebula taken with markiii is very impressive.
I'm from California and I loved your forest fire comment, could not agree more. I am hoping the astro focus makes it to the EM1X!!!! Great video!!!
I think it will. I see no reason it cannot. They are probably just holding back on it to give the Mk3 a reason to sell. I would expect a firmware update once the Em1X Mk2 comes out. I do want an Em1x though badly. Might be to heavy but if its runs cooler then it would be worthing changing some things.
I have the EM5-MKIII . . . the same sensor as the EM1-MKII . . . when you flip out the screen, you have a flat area behind the sensor . . . would be nice to rig up a freezer pack shaped to fit in that space.
There are examples of this done many times. I might just do one for next summer. Have about half the parts already.
That is one of the short falls of the Olympus Body-IS. Unlike Panasonic they do not use a heavy heat sink, the sensor can overheat. After shooting video continuously for about a quarter hour the picture on my E-M5ii tinges to magenta. This is mentioned in small print in the user manual. Because Panasonic is more aimed at shooting video, they have always had better sensor cooling.
An issue possibly associated with this is Olympus have poor colour rendition at the violet end of the spectrum, possibly to mask the magenta tinge. Panasonic do not suffer this problem.
Panasonic have had their "Starlight AF" for some time. Possibly a simpler system than the Olympus version. It uses the DFD, which judges the focus point from defocussed images. You do not turn it on, it just does it, you get a red rectangle around a pin point of light such as a planet, very fast, very accurate.
HAH! I'm sold too, JUST won an Ebay auction for a practically new M1.3. Cheers!
Great news Randy!. Enjoy that little camera. I liked it too. My sister is going to be using mine soon.
Very helpful. Question regarding how to best match a refractor setup to this camera. I notice that most refractors advertise setups that take full advantage of a full frame sensor vs. a micro 43rd sensor. Can you please provide any insight into setups that take full advantage of the micro 43rd sensor? I realize that the setup for a full frame sensor can be used but only takes advantage of the central portion of the illuminated circle. Is it easy to modify these or, alternatively, construct different setups to match perfectly to the micro 43rd sensor in this camera? BTW I recently purchased this camera so very intrigued with the idea of using it for astro. Thanks much.
It true that many refractor are corrected for a 35mm sensor however they do not have an image circle large enough. The best way to find out is find someone with that scope and ask to see a flat that they have taken. Then you can know for sure. A good example is the Radian Scope. Advertised as a 35mm image circle but in NO way does it have a large enough image circle for a 35mm sensor. Flats taken with it show the outside edges to be almost 80% darker than the center.
Nice setup and probably one day I will go for if I ever get a astro camera and telescopes. Right now I am stick with em1mk2 and native Oly lenses. Just curious, is starry focus comparable to Oly capture software with fine tuning? Or which method you think it's better? Still not sure if I should upgrade to MK3.
The Stary Sky autofocus is much better than doing it manual even with Oly Capture. I actually did not try to see if you can remotely use Stary Sky autofocus though through Oly Capture. I will soon though once my own Em1 Mk3 arrives.
Great Video. So does Stary Sky negate the need for a Bahtinov mask?
Great video, it's rare to see in-depth reviews and decent astro images with M4/3 cameras
What is the overall stop improvements of the E-M1.3 vs E-M1.2, and E-M1.3 vs E-M1.1 ?
Also the internal intervalometer only goes up to a maximum shutter speed of 60". How do you do multiple longer exposures of 120" or 180", do you just fire each shot manually?
In the video I did touch on the performance difference between the three. The Em1.3 is about 2.5-3 stops better then the Em1.1 but that depends on exposure lengths. The longer you expose the greater the advantage for the Em1.3. The Em1.2 though it has the same sensor produces more heat so it does about 0.5-1 less then the 1.3
@@TheNarrowbandChannel thanks. The internal intervalometer only goes up to a maximum shutter speed of 60". How do you do multiple longer exposures of 120" or 180", do you just fire each shot manually?
@@stevepearson7493 I use an external Intervelomiter for the long ones. I hope Olympus add longer exposures to the built in intervelomiter soon. Would be a big help.
Great video! I live in Colorado near the mountains so easy access to very dark skies. Are you familiar with the Olympus 8mm 1.8 Fisheye Pro? I would like to get this lens specifically for astrophotography. Your take?
I just got the 8mm f1.8 and its pretty swell. Up there you can really use it because of your lower light solution. It pretty sharp. I have been impressed with it.
Where do I go to find out the name and specs of the sensors used in the micro four thirds system?
They do not always list them. The IMX270 I found on a reviewers website once. That sensor itself is not a plus sensor. Finding which sensor is used sometimes requires a lot of digging. There is no one place to go.
I wonder why it's not possible to connect Olympus Camera to the mount and use it as astro-photo camera and autoguider at the same time. Do you think it's manageable? I really like your channel. Cheers 😊
I wish it could but its a hardware limitation. You need a separate set of exposures being read out and analyzed to get signals sent to the mont to compensate for mount errors. If Olympus used a multi aspect sensor that cold have separate sections reading out information at separate intervals it would be possible. And with the Olympus ability to shift the sensor, guiding cold be done all in body.
I have the ASIAir as part of an astronomy rig similar to you. I also own an EM1-MkiIi. In you review you mentioned 'Dithering'. How are you doing this with the AAP and Olympus camera? I thought for dithering to work, the AAP needs to control the timing of the shutter so that you don't dither in the middle of an exposure.
I have never been able to get the air to control the actuations of the camera. Sad I know that ZWO does not give us the option.
The way I dither is basically I sacrifice a few bad exposures. But it is worth it as the walking noise is completely eliminated. I do a dither ever 5 frames so I am not loosing to many frames.
@@TheNarrowbandChannel Have you been able to use the AISAir for anything with the EM1-Mkiii? I am guessing it still might be useful with a guide scope (i.e., guiding, polar aligning, etc.) but wondering if you've tapped into any functionality with the EM1-Mkiii.
@@thomasheatherington357 So the only things that I have been able to take advantage of so far is the accurate polar alignment and guiding. I do use a second ZWO camera to plate solve and get pointed right at targets. Unfortunately there is no direct tethering yet. I keep asking ZWO to do it and they said it is on the list to add but there are other cameras on the list first. If you have an ASIAIR and can help advocate for it on their Facebook page and website forums that would be great.
Could you do a follow up and compare the improvements between OMD Em1 Mark 1, 3 and the OM1 camera, please?
I recently tried astrophotography on my GX7 which is even older than than the Em 1 Mark 1, and.... it's needless to say that even bright objects like Orion's Nebula are disappointing.
I will be soon. I am working on it. Just need some clear skies. This time of year is nothing but clouds sadly. Worst time of year for me to get a new camera i guess lol.
I can say though that it already looks better in the OM1 then it did with the em1.3
Hej !
would it be possible to use the Live Comp function to do astrophotography? Greetings from Sweden
Yes absolutely. Its perfect for star trails.
Have you tried the GH5S? should have a dual gain sensor which produces less noise at higher ISO and also, with 12MP should have larger pixel closer to FF camera.
I have not. That cameras sensor though I am familiar with. It is the same as the ZWO294. They have a Mono version out now which I am feeling pretty committed to getting. The sensor in the GH5S is actually a binned version of the IMX492. Its binned in hardware though so it cannot be unbind. Would be nice to get a future camera that could bin in hardware and unbind in hardware.
@@TheNarrowbandChannel Oh... cool! I did not know that, and I'm a camera geek! A quad Bayer sensor would be kind of ideal for expanding an M43 camera's resolution without locking it in, though I have enough 16Mpixel and 20Megapixel bodies, I wouldn't be against buying one just for high resolution. Practically every phone uses these, but they're all using very simple, poor algorithms for processing full resolution color: they flip around the pixels to fit it all into their de-Bayering hardware. There are very good algorithms for whole-color-plane interpolation that would deliver far better results from Quad Bayer sensors... just not a phone thing year.
@@DaveHaynie Yes a camera with the option to bin down to a lower resolution and thus combine the pixels for lower light would be great.
Sigma had a sensor called the foveon sensor, how would that be for astro photography?
Those sensors had a lot of issues. It really did not work the way their advertising says it does. Or at least it is not well communicated. With each layer the light has to pass though a 1/3rd of the light is lost to absorption. But a sensor that can detect and us light at ever wavelength is the future.
High full well is not important for sensitivity... is for higher dynamic range.
Correct, mostly. In a round about way well capacity has a lot to do with it. With deeper wells you can expose longer without getting bloated star and that is essentially the same thing as increasing sensitivity since you can then pull out fainter details.
do you use filters with your oly cameras for astro?
It depends but I often do use an STC filter. None of the photos in this video though were filtered.
Have you had the chance to look at Fuji's x-t30? It's price point is quite attractive and I've heard good things about its overall low light capabilities.
I have not. I have honestly never even seen a Fuji camera.
Where did you get all that sensor information from?
Sony has a database and its buried in there. There are also some test that have been done by both myself and also some websites that do testing.
www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/RN_e.htm
@@TheNarrowbandChannel thank you
I legit am trying hard to sell my current cameras to fund the purchase of this awesome camera. Somebody please buy it already! :'( sucks that ebay and paypal doesn't support sellers in my country. Frustrating!