What's Difference between 7/8 and 7/4?
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- Опубліковано 6 сер 2023
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Very cool thank you I've played drums for years and never understood it but you just made that really easy to understand ..awesome!✌️😎
7/4 feels like some combination of 4/4 + 3/4, while 7/8 feels like a 4/4 that gets cut off one 8th early
Yes. But also playing the 7/8 while saying "1234-123" helps a Lot
@@puturroi find it much easier to just count it 1 2 3 and 1 2 3 and
@@jurytortoise5396 how does that work eh? That's 6/8. "and" is just a sixteenth note (considering each count is a beat) you chose to count while not counting the "and" between 1 2. But the and is still there it's still there.
"1 2 3 and 1 2 3 and" would just be "8th note, 8th note, two 16th notes 8th note, 8th note, two 16th notes" And that's not 7/8.
@@i_jetlag would you prefer me to say 1 2 3 4-? It was an easy way to put it into words, because i just cut off both ands of the fours. I say and because its like having half of a beat at the end instead of a full beat and didn't know how else to differentiate it
Spot on
You had me at betwixt.
I was about to say that myself. I instantly subscribed lol
Same
Me, too!
She had me with the David Gilmour shirt ❤
My favorite candy bar
Her voice makes it feel like I'm getting a drum lesson from a fairy tail and I love it.
*sprinkles fairy dust*
A fairy's tail?
I was thinking exactly that, mate.. ❤
Concise, to the point, no fluff, not pretentious, and most importantly - actually correct. Quite unlike most music UA-cam tutorials.
It also helps to count "sev" instead of "seven" to prevent yourself from falling into 8/8 or 4/4.
This is the way violas count a 7/8 or 7/4 bar 🤭
I go for just "seh"
I say "taco taco burrito".
🌮🌮🌯🌮🌮🌯🌮🌮🌯🌮🌮🌯, etc.
That's nice! Thanks.
@@6feetunderpantsthis is brilliant. Thanks!
Yea, of course in the same context they are different. But it is possible to have a 7/8 piece written in 7/4 and vice versa, just double/half the tempo and adjust the dynamics.
that’s the case with any two time signatures with the same top number
@@shinyshinyyshinyyy2197 exactly!
That's what I'm sayin
Also you can put the whole thing on 4/4 too and not hear a difference.youll only see it as the groove doesn't evenly repeat on whole bars it will start the repeat on the 4th beat of bar too and continue to shift back as beat yeah repeat. But each bar will still have 4 beats.
Came to the comments to say exactly this!!
I've seen a lot of musicians make these types of arguments when in fact, it's arbitrary. It depends entirely on whether the composed piece uses quarter notes, eighth notes, half notes or even 16th notes as the base meter. It also depends entirely on the written tempo.
I stopped using "7/8" or "7/4" a while ago since you can't know the intended root beat structure without talking to the artist.
I find it's more accurate to talk about time signatures as functions of a musical phrase. Where does the phrase start and stop? How many beats are present in each phrase?
Then just call it a phrase in 4 , or 6 or 13 or whatever the artist is using.
Totally true
Yes! Time signature and meter are two different things. In simple meter the time signature relates to the beats, while in compound and mixed meters it relates to the parts of the beats.
THANK YOU
I agree. She's just playing a different groove. You can pay both of these in either time signature.
Turkish Beats 1-2 1-2 1-2-3
Subdivision becomes a big reason to use different meters. You often see triplets in compound meters so it works for things like that, too.
ye, well, Turkish .. maybe. But almost each Macedonian song is in an odd rhythm, usually 7/8 and 11/8
But it is no triplet. Those 3 8ths are longer than the 2 8ths groups. If it would be a triplet it be the same length.
@@OmgEinWahnsinniger thanks for the pro tip! Forgot they’re just called 8th notes at that rate.
I don't know about Turkish rhythms, but Macedonian rhythms are mostly 7/8 or 9/8, 11/8 and 18/8, the Macedonian band "Leb i Sol" and their guitarist Vlatko Stefanovski play them, King Crimson and prog rock bands often play them use.
Those were both 7/4 but just different tempos! #changemymind
I totally agree!
Facts
Exactly... what if I play what is played here for 7/8 twice and consider the second half a cool trick of switching to the up-beat... now I've got 7/4! 😮
7/8 is often felt as 4 and 3, snare placement and groove makes a big difference. Ultimately though music theory exists purely as a way for us to communicate ideas, so we have 7/4 and 7/8 because it makes it easier to relay ideas/explain/understand what's going on.
@@Mejoree113 You are definitely correct that these are just ways to communicate ideas and they can be interpreted in different ways (like words).
I have no idea what you are talking about but you have an engaging personality I watch to the end.
now play it where the quarter equals 100 bpm for the 7/4 and the eighth equals 100 bpm for the 7/8
I see what you did there.
It will sound different nonetheless
That is the corret point of view.
And then go betwixt the two!
It will still sound different as she played the snare on beats 2 4 and 6 in the 7/4 example, and beats 3 and 7 in the 7/8 example.
I heard a good tip once from Rod Morganstein. If you count 7/8 as 12334567, you can fall into counting it as ..... "Five six sev-en" and you're back in 4/4. Better to count as, "....... Five, six, sev', one two...'
(I did notice you count "Seven" in 16th notes to avoid this.)
You count it as 8th notes or Quavers, because it literally means 7 quavers. So count 1 & 2 & 3 & 4. You'll notice this has one less eighth note than in 4/4 if you are to break it into 8th note rhythms.
Both of you are right. Nice.
Yeah I always count is as sev lol. Same goes for if I happen to be counting an absurdly long one like eleven or thirteen
I was thinking about Rod’s video where he talks about 7/8… nice call out!
Yeah. We call that a “Belgian 7/8”
Just as a “Belgian 3/4” counts as 1 2 3 aaand 1 2 3 aaand 1 2 3
😂
Very interesting even as a guitarist. A very nice job, and a GREAT shirt, by the way
You didn’t explain how they were different.
You demonstrated what the rhythm groupings would be if the quarter note tempo remained equal; using your example, you could have made the quarter note in 7/4 and eighth note in 7/8 as the same tempo to make the rhythms sound identical.
What you should have pointed out is that 7/4 is a simple meter (eighth notes grouped by twos, which differs from compound meter where 8Th notes are grouped in 3’s)) and 7/8 is a complex meter (eighth notes grouped both simple and compound).
Slightly more complicated answer, but keeping the same tempo for the quarter note between both meters seemed like a lowbrow way to demonstrate metric differences.
Hear hear! QUITE low brow and frankly vulgar. How pedestrian of her 🙃
They're actually both odd time signatures. The only real difference between them is how they look on the page, you can group the beats however you like
Way to explain how this drummer doesn’t actually understand rhythm internally and only knows it notationally
The thing is the feeling of the music is what dictates which time signature is correct. For most popular music, kick and snare are on the quarter notes, hence for most popular music that is what dictates whether its 7/8 or 7/4.
@@shlecko😅
BRITISH MUSICIAN! Very refreshing to stumble across a fellow Brit musician.
Hello! And thanks your tips are awesome😊
in general it has to do with grouping more than that. 7/4 are seven beats and 7/8 is generally and combination of 2, 2 and 3 beats. So for example you'd count "1 2 1 2 1 2 3"
but you can group the quarter note the same way in 7/4 as the eight notes in 7/8. 7/4 is essentially an augmentation if 7/8.
@@scopilio13 of course you *can* if you want to. But this is usually the reason why people use 7/8 instead of 7/4. It also has to do with tempo. A 7/4 is usually much slower than a 7/8 so it's not necessary to pulse it. 7/8 and even more so 5/8 most of the time can only really be played if you pulse it.
Try to count 7/8 like 3+2+2 and accent start of each group. That's how we do it on Balkan, because it's natural to our folk music and it's easy to understand it that way... Like: one-two-three, one-two, one-two. Similarly with 9/8... It helps :)
The difference is 7/4 is a simple meter with straight subdivisions while 7/8 is conplex and shifts between two and three subdivisions
Thank u so much . I've been playing over 30 yrs and u have helped me understand things so easily, I'm mostly by ear and feeling. Just wanted to thank you for your lessons. ❤
You're accent is brilliant.
Thank you! 😅
You understand the difference l, but I don't think you communicated it very well. The important part is where the strong beats fall, and I think the emphasis on eighth notes kind of confuses things. The important thing is that 7/4 has 7 equally spaced strong beats, while 7/8 has some unequally spaced sequence of strong beats (usually some permutation of 2+2+3, I guess 2+2+2+1 if you're playing math rock).
It’s not always that simple. One technique often employed by drummers is to alternate where the strong beats fall between each bar. The band will be playing in 7/8, and it will feel a bit like the drummer is playing one bar of 7/4 for every two bars of 7/8 the rest of the band is playing.
loved that. need to dive into those 2 measures more again
They can be almost the same.depending on tempo and.subdivision. It's like... 6/8 and 2/2 are pretty different but if you have a song written in 2/2 with all quarternotes as triplets and then swing them a little, it's basically 6/8. So to that end the differences between 7/4 and 7/8 are a lot like the differences between 2/4 and 2/2.
I have the same T-Shirt. Long live DG!
What do you play with 7/4 at 100 bpm and 7/8 at 50 bpm?
Almost close but no, eighth notes played in 7/8 time at 50 bpm would sound identical to quarter notes being played in 7/4 time at 100 bpm
Yup yup. I have on the album i am working on that switches between 7/8 and 7/4 for the first few minutes of the song. Its a really cool transition.
Now I'll have the solo to Money stuck in my head all day.
The only difference between 7/4, and 7/8 is that they are two different time signatures. And the only reason to choose one over the other is determined by whichever is the best way to read the given composition
You are absolutely incorrect. The only difference is in how it is written. That being said, if you tell someone to play in 7/8 or 7/4 they are more likely to put the emphasis where you would like it.
This might be the only comment here that's not wrong
In band we were taught to think 7/8 in groupings, so 12 12 123 or 123 12 12. Same goes for 5/8, 12 123 or 123 12. Made a huge difference when learning how to feel these rhythms
I say betwixt as well . Mahalo
these are two different groves, the way of counting does not matter as much as you might think. you can actually switch 7/4 and 7/8 around and adjust tempi and have it exactly reversed.
Whats the difference between 7/8 at 100bpm and 7/4 at 200bpm?
Nothing
The amount of ink on the sheet music.
Thanks for your presentation
It literally took me 3 years to get this concept down, but I was between the ages of 10 and 13 so I don't hold myself over it too much
When I first started writing music, I was full into odd time signatures, but they were nearly always x/4 when they should have been x/8 (5, 7, and 13) to help my drummer make it faster. Wish I saw this video 7 years ago.
I think the gist is that each one has a different vibe. If your piece is fast-moving with a pattern like 2-2-3 then it likely makes sense to write it 7/8, and if it’s more deliberate & slower paced 7/4 may be acceptable. Although tbh this example makes them sound the exact same, which in practice isn’t true and just muddies the waters for no reason
this is the most correct comment
Loved the breakdown!
Your accent made me enjoy the sound of an electronic drum kit for the first time in my life
Thank you very much dear
I still feel like I need it simpler. Loved hearing you play though
On 7/8 you should accent 1,4,and 7, bass drum on 1 and 7 and snare on 4. This is the method popularized by Danny Carey from Tool, off of Fear Inoculum, where he switches from 7/8 to 21/16 and back again
Exactly as explained in the video..Cheers!!!
Thanks for what you do !
It's impressive the amount of metronome apps that treat both in the same way
Love the Rattle That Lock tour shirt. Have the same one. Good vid!
God bless you bro❤
Sis! ❤
7/4 is Led Zeppelin’s “the Ocean” 7/8 is Alice In Chains’ “Them Bones”
AAAAHH !!!!
The ocean is actually in 4/4 and 7/8. It alternates back and forth between 4/4 and 7/8.
@@dickjohnson8578 correct. the chorus to dem bones is 4/4 too, since we're getting picky
@@fuckcensorship69 not being picky just making a simple correction.
MONEY!!!!
That amazing voice, it's as if Julie Andrews were teaching the trapset. Beautiful playing!
Such a good explanation!
You explained that perfectly
This is a pretty good demonstration of the difference. Helps understand time signatures better overall as well.
That said, she almost looks like a female version of me and it's a little unnerving. Even in the 2nd shot where she looks a little different because of the lighting, yeah, that exact thing would happen to me.
What you are saying is correct in a way. And I guess there is a small wiggle room in there. But they way I usually think about things like these is regarding the song itself. It depends on the music as well
K actually like this breakdown a lot to learn from
It was a mystery for me, but it clear now
7/4 = 14/8 and 7/8 = 3.5/4 (although you'd never write the second one that way) is another way to think of the difference between the two time signatures. Time signatures are like fractions, although in music there are good reasons to sometimes not to write them in simplest form. Although 4/4 is the same as 1/1; that would just be a silly way to write common time.
you explained this perfect
You look like a cool teacher!
"Money" 7/4
"Back in NYC" 7/8
The song splash by chon has a momemt where it switches from 7/4 to 7/8. Sounds super cool
You just blew my mind. I always assumed when they said 8 beats per bar, that it meant the bar would just go longer, like you're counting 4 beats but then just do 4 more. I never connected that it means you're counting faster, not longer.
good lesson.
Thank you
I FINALLY GET IT THANK U ❤️
You're Very Good!
King crimsons level five uses both 7/4 and 7/8
❤"curious I notice different drum sticks for certain lessons...brown drum sticks are what size? Used best when?
They're usually all 5A size, I just have some different brands! The brown sticks are Promark Fire Grain 5A, they were gifted to me by a friend❤️
Most instruments aren't playing two things at the same time, the way drum kits can. So the primary functional difference is in note grouping. X/8 tends to involve triplets and three-beat structures more often than x/4.
You could technically use them interchangeably as long as you don't have both in the same piece. A lot of 6/4 (older music, not new) has been showing showing up as 6/8 in more recent publications.
muy awesome, thanks
You can play 7/8 note as 2+2+3, 3+2+2 or 2+3+2
I’ve this t-shirt from the rattle that lock tour :D
Thank you. ThankYou THANK YOU@!!!!!
The most important thing with the sevens is not the speed but how you divide the bar. 3-4 or 4-3 is a big difference and 3,5-3,5 is a totally different beast.
I have no idea what you are talking about but you are so darned pleasant, confident, and easy to listen to I had to subscribe.
Thank you so much!
Time signatures are just there to help us conceptualize music and what we want to play/what we are hearing. Technically, these are both 7/4 and 7/8. The only time real distinctions need to be made is in the context of the music you are creating (e.g., because of the structure, it makes more sense to specify 7/8 or whatever signature).
EXCELLENT T-SHIRT!!!!
A good way to explain it for a beginner first delving in to time sigs! But true that this isnt a set rule, could double or half tempos and suddenly they sound identical... Tempo vs time and all that. Rhythm is wacky and even wackier when you get into ryhthm and pitch being the same thing just at two extremes of frequency
I love playing a riff in 7/8 and then play 4/4 drumbeat over that or vice versa
Isn’t that the formula for Led Zeppelin’s “Black Dog”? Maybe it’s 4/4 and 3/4 together 🤔
YEEEAAAH 7/8 is Tool time signatures
The best example i can think of for 7/8 versus 7/4 is the intro to "Invincible" by TOOL compared to "Money" by Pink Floyd
7/4 and 7/8 (even 7/16 and 7/32) would absolutely sound the same. The difference only exist when writing and reading it. It has nothing to do with tempo or the hi-hat.
Betwixt the storyline of my life.. your great 😅
Damn I was looking forward to seeing the 2 together. Guess I'll never know.
Dangerous explanation. You should specify: "Keeping the same pace" what you said makes sense. But if you have a 7/4 at 80=crotchet and then you have a 7/8 at a slower tempo (i.e. 50=crotchet) the two things are basically the same. The important thing to lay stress on is that 7/x is a irregular tempo, which means that we perceive it as a sum of two basic patterns (4+3 or 3+4). This is always true.
Money - Pink Floyd 7/4
Them bones - Alice in Chains 7/8
Nice t-shirt!
Same like that could you explain 6/4 and 6/8
I subbed right before "follow for part 2"
A lesson on how to make both signatures sound and feel difficult to play.
Love it ❤
I never encountered these runic notations before, but I like it😋
You've never seen percussion staff on sheet music?
i’m not sure if it was done on purpose when you said “betwixt” possibly in reference to hank levy’s “Blues Between & Betwixt” which switches from 7/4 and 7/8
You are perfection
Hello. Can you please tell me what kind of electronic kit you're playing? I'm trying to find something practical for my apartment. Thanks!
What about 7/8 @ 90bps vs 7/4 @ 180bps?
that 7/4 and 7/8 are not the same is pretty easy to see, however what some people don’t get is that 4/4 and 8/8 is also not the same.. 4/4 is 4 group of two 8th notes (1,2 - 1,2 - 1,2 - 1,2), while 8/8 is grouped into three odd beats (1,2,3 - 1,2,3 - 1,2 for instance)
Didn’t know I needed Harry Potter drum lessons.
I think it would help me if you played along with a song, or showed an example of two popular songs exhibiting the respective time signatures.