Jane Austen PERSUASION novel analysis-Colonel Wallis’ Persuasions: Sir Walter Elliot & Lady Russell
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- Jane Austen PERSUASION novel analysis | Who is Colonel Wallis & what does he say that is so very persuasive? Colonel Wallis is shown to be an excellent talker, persuading Sir Walter Elliot, Lady Russell, & Miss Elizabeth Elliot to welcome Mr Elliot back into the fold. But what did he actually say? Analysis & close reading of Jane Austen’s narrative technique to examine Colonel Wallis’ effectiveness as a persuader, & what this reveals about Anne Elliot’s friends & relations.
The lecture:
• analyses Sir Walter Elliot’s use of Colonel Wallis’s lexicon (to explain why Mr Elliot married Mrs Elliot)
• examines how Jane Austen exposes Colonel Wallis as a master manipulator through Lady Russell’s thinking
• considers Colonel Wallis’ gallantry with Lady Dalrymple & Miss Elizabeth Elliot
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Can you think of another silent but important character in Jane Austen?
Georgiana Darcy is much talked about, but I don't think she says a single word herself.
I don't think we ever get quoted speech from Mrs. Young, who colluded with Wickham. There is a story there. How did she manage to gain Darcy’s trust enough to be looking after his sister? Why did she support Wickham - was she taken in by him too, or was it more malicious?
@@archervine8064 P.D. James's "Death Comes to Pemberly" makes Wickham and Mrs. Young half-sibilings, which is an interesting theory, but one which I thought was very silly. Personally, I think he probably just promised her a cut of the money. As for silent characters, I think there are quite a lot of side characters that get very little or no direct speech without us noticing it, which is very genius on Austen's part. Dr. Grant in Mansfield Park gets very little direct speech, I think, or Ann de Bourgh in Pride and Prejudice. I don't think we ever get to hear her speak. I mean, these are mostly not that important, but still, it's amazing how much sense of their character we get without actually hearing them express themselves.
@@shirahmalkacohen5017 it's just interesting to consider why she would do that. The Darcys seem to be generous employers by the standards of the day, so why would she risk a good job job, her charge’s reputation, and thereby quite possibly her own if Wickhams scheme had been successful?
@@archervine8064 That is a very good point. He must have charmed her somehow, or even made love to her. We do know he can be very charismatic. Even Lizzy falls for it a little.
The single person who disliked this video must have been the colonel himself 🤣
Ha!
The second one is Mr. Elliot.
Thank you for highlighting this subtle but very interesting aspect of Persuasion.
I think there is a reason we are shown so clearly the far more subtle type of persuasion (well in truth manipulation) as used by Colonel Wallis, on both Sir Walter and Lady Russell. We were already shown quite clearly how vulnerable both Sir Walter and Elizabeth were to that type of "persuasion"-i.e. manipulation, concerning Mrs. Clay. So we already know this about THEM. It is actually in sense more revealing, hinting in some ways to the reader, whether they pick up on it consciously or not, that there is something underhanded about the way Mr. Elliot has wormed his way into the family. As it being similar to Mrs. Clay.
But it does get even more interesting that Austen chooses to show Lady Russell falling victim to the same tactics. In the first half Lady Russell is almost presented as the more level-headed, rational member of the "family". Generally, she is shown positively despite her objections towards Wentworth. However, by showing how easily she can be worked on to change her opinions and how easily she rationalizes it, it puts her in a completely different light. For both Anne and the reader. We start to question her opinions and judgment in general.
That both Lady Russell and Sir Walter are characters who have a high opinion of their own opinion (sorry!), but are easily convinced by someone like Wallis to change them without even being aware of it, adds to the irony. I think Austen is making a subtle point. That it is this type of "persuasion" that is in reality insidious, not the type that Lady Russell (rightly or wrongly) was guilty of, and so faulted for throughout the first half of the book. This is sort of backed up if you think of the conclusions Anne and Wentworth reaches by the end.
I had never given Col. Wallis a moment's thought. Until this lecture that is. Good stuff, professor!
The portrait you show as Lady Russell, is actually a painting of Dolly Payne Todd Madison, the wife of the fourth President of The United States of America, James Madison.. It was she who saved the Lansdowne portrait of The First President of The United States of America, George Washington, when the British burned The City of Washington, DC, during the war. Just a smart note.
Thank you for this commentary. It was almost startling coming after a discussion in a facebook group about Dorothy Sayers' Lord Peter Wimsey novels that included someone quoting this from Tolstoy that seems to fit so well with much of the discussion in these comments:
“It is amazing how complete is the delusion that beauty is goodness. A handsome woman talks nonsense, you listen and hear not nonsense but cleverness. She says and does horrid things, and you see only charm. And if a handsome woman does not say stupid or horrid things, you at once persuade yourself that she is wonderfully clever and moral.”
― Leo Tolstoy, The Kreutzer Sonata
How on earth do Austen, Sayers, and Tolstoy come into the same discussion?
Ha! Fabulous quotation of Tolstoy's. It puts me in mind of a pre-marriage Mr Bennet, and a lesson learned too late: "captivated by youth and beauty, and that appearance of good humour which youth and beauty generally give, had married a woman whose weak understanding and illiberal mind had very early in their marriage put an end to all real affection for her" (ch.42).
@@DrOctaviaCox I've always adored Mr Bennet, so it was rather alarming when I read your quote about "a woman whose weak understanding and illiberal mind had very early in their marriage put an end to all real affection for her"; it immediately made me think of the passage at the end of the book about Mr Wickham "His affection for her soon sunk into indifference". Maybe Mr Bennet and Mr Wickham were more similar than I - or they - would like to think
@@zillie8167 Not really - Mr. Bennet chose freely, unlike Wickham.
It also applies to men. Surely Wickham is considered clever and moral by most of Meryton partly because of his good looks.
Colonel Wallis sounds like the man Mr. Collins aspires to be "I am happy on every occasion to offer those little delicate compliments which are always acceptable to ladies...sometimes [amusing himself] with suggesting and arranging such little elegant compliments as may be adapted to ordinary occasions..."
Your videos have given me insight into many Jane Austen techniques like this one that I had not recognized before when reading her books. Thanks!
My pleasure.
These videos have made me appreciate just how skilled Austen was with her words.
I enjoyed this and your other videos very much. I have always thought there are oddities in Persuasion that Austen would probably have eliminated had she lived. For example, Mrs. Smith's willingness to allow Anne to marry Mr. Elliot. She must know that Anne would be miserable. Mrs. Smith's excuses do not ring true to me and if I were Anne I think it would definitely cool my future relationship with Mrs. Smith, however much I might try to help her financially. Then there is Mrs. Clay's becoming Mr. Elliot's acknowledged mistress and the idea that he might actually marry her. I don't say they might not have had an affair, but they were both too smart to cut themselves off from a more profitable future relationship elsewhere. To me those few sentences at the very end of the books seem written to simply wind up the story and cry out for change. Perhaps you might address these topics in some future video.
This is the topic I was just going to ask Ms.Cox to explore in a future video. Why did Austen have Mrs. Smith do the change of approach, and how did she mean us to see Mrs. Smith. Somehow Anne must be a better judge of character than to listen to people like Col. Wallis or Mr. Elliot, and believe Mrs. Smith instead, or was she?
@@simonestreeter1518 I'm glad other people have wondered about this!
@@dorothywillis1 Not only that, I've also always wondered about Mr. Elliot's motives for running off with Mrs. Clay, too! :)
@@simonestreeter1518 I'm inclined to think Austen was just tying off loose threads temporarily. There are so many reasons those two characters wouldn't really behave as we are told they did. I know Austen mentioned that the book would be ready in about a year, so she must have planned a lot of revision.
@@dorothywillis1 Oh I didn't know she had said that. A year? Well, that section almost reads like a mystery, so she may have had a more complex solution in mind. I'm rereading P&P now, and just noticed how complex the mystery set-up is around Lydia and Wickham's disappearance. Of course, I don't think murder mysteries had been invented yet, but she clearly would have loved them.
Great analysis! I just finished reading Persuasion again, and Colonel Wallis was a character that really interested me because he seemed to just have forcefully pushed his way into their company, and everyone was just totally happy about it.
Thank you - very glad you enjoyed it. Good point about Colonel Wallis' forceful personality - which is why I think it's interesting that this determined personality is contrasted with his silence (for the reader).
No one I know has ever read these books but me!!! 💙💙💙talking about it
Who couldn't love Persuasion? A wonderful book!
Me, too, no one I know loves to read books, much less discuss them. Reading for pleasure and for knowledge has been a huge part of my life since early childhood.
The very curious thing about Persuasion and Jane Austen’s novels in general is that they can be closely analysed by one person and someone else can find a whole volume of different things, all equally valid. I have the John Mullan book you mention, also Jocelyn Harris’ “A Revolution Almost Beyond Expression” and still the points you raise are new and fascinating and there is still more to find.
Thank you. Yes, there is always more to find in a good artist. That's what makes analysing texts so wonderful and interesting, I think. If an author has thought about each and every word that they write (which I firmly believe that Austen did) then there's meaning to be gleaned from every sentence.
Catriona, you also might like to read "Jane Austen, the Secret Radical" by Helena Kelly.
@@lauranichols945 that is a good one to read indeed and a other of my books covered in pencil marginalia. Sigh.
Could you do a similar close reading on Mrs. Smith from Persuasion? I have always found her bizarre. One second she is pushing Anne to marry Mr. Elliot no matter what, because she wants money or a favor, but the second she realizes those won't be forthcoming, she immediately flips to calling Mr. Elliot the worst human in existence. She is such a frenemy.
And yet Anne remains so fond of her, and she figures so largely in the close of the novel. I've never understood it either.
This was so interesting! Austen’s use of secondhand information have always been one of my favourite feautures of her writing - she often manages to impute it with so much humour and duplicity from which you can glean a lot of information, especially belatedly!
Thank you very much for another enjoyable and informative talk. Yet more evidence of the wonderful talents of Jane Austen.
Thank you so much! This is my favorite Jane Austen book. IF you ever create a Bronte family rabbit hole for me to dive into, could you do an analysis of Villette? It's my favorite Charlotte Bronte novel.
I second this, I would LOVE to hear her points on Villette!
I've heard that Vilette is one of the best Brontë books.
I have it but am still yet to actually get around to reading it!!! 🤦🏻♀️
Thank you. I definitely plan on creating lots of
Brontë videos to dive into too.
@@DrOctaviaCox Please can you do Tenant of Wildfell Hall. No-one else has even heard of it and it's such a great book.
I've just read the book this month (first in translation into my language, then in English), and it left a lasting impression on me. In Colonel Wallis I saw the new Mr Smith, a useful friend who helped Mr Elliot have a good stance in the society. I can only guess but from Mrs Smith's story it seems that Mr Elliot had always been a person seeking advantages for himself at the expense of others (and not caring about others), and Colonel Wallis was another like-minded friend who had the same outlook on life (after all, he had a silly good-looking wife) and who was only ready to help him.
I think it's incredibly poetic that Sir Walter and Lady Russell persuade Anne of how unfitting captain Wentworth would be as a spouse (even if he is) just by their own prejudices, but then are persuaded about how fitting mr Elliot would be (even if he isn't) by a third party who isn't even worth more than the slithering mentions sprinkled in the memories of them
You make me wish I could go back to school and study literature, my first and greatest love.
This is great!!! Love your Jane Austen content!!!
Colonel Wallis seems an obscure non essential character in Persuasion. He reminds me of Fitzwilliam from Pride and Prejudice. In in a breeze, and out in a breeze. Lady Russell is a fascinating character though. Her intelligence shines so bright in the book. But obviously Dr. Cox is able to show case her limitations in terms of discerning characters. But we are talking about masters in manipulations here, Mr. Elliot & Col. Wallis are unmatched in this endeavor.
I have been enjoying your videos greatly. Thank you for them!
I'd like to know more about Elizabeth Elliot. We know she is vain and shallow and very attached to her father whose character is very similar, but do we ever find out a bit more about her internal life? Does she feel the pressure of not being married? Does she still hope to get married? Does she crave male attention? One would think so given her desire for status and convention and her vanity. She is a bit of an enigma.
I think she definitely feels some anxiety about her unmarried status. There's a bit where she'll shut the Baronetage book when Sir Walter has left it open because it stresses her out to see her own name with no marriage attached.
Could you do one on the Mrs Wallis - Nurse Rook situation. This blows open Mr Eliots whole facade. I love Persuasion as I first did it for A level almost 50 years ago. It is such a subtle book.
This is fantastic. Can you do a video on focalisation? Thank you.
Do we hear directly from Denny in P&P?
Yes, once directly - at the Netherfield ball, when Denny says that Wickham won't be attending: "adding, with a significant smile, “I do not imagine his business would have called him away just now, if he had not wanted to avoid a certain gentleman here”" (ch.18). What "significant" means here will presumably change in the mind of the reader as the plot develops.
Col Wallis is a master at Inception! The next film adaptation should have Leo DeCaprio playing him. LOL!
Personally, I think the 1995 adaptation of Persuasion was smart to remove the character. I believe he's only referenced when Anne hears gossip from her friend's housemaid.
Still watching. In translation this simple "Elliot" instead of "mr Elliot" does not appear. He appears as mr Elliot in this whole speech. So good I have the original version too :)
It's funny because I have also just compared the original with translation, and I agree ;)
@@jola-xl9xi I'm more austenish than you. I know her books almost by heart. Didn't need to see the text 😂
23:58 gave me a chuckle as I realized that Jane Austen understood the role of a “wingman”😄
I think that Lady Russell believed Col. Wallace not only because Col. Wallace was persuasive, but also because Lady Russell wished to believe what Col. Wallace was telling her.
Oh, yes - I think so too. Part of being a good manipulator is knowing exactly what your victim / prey / interlocutor wants to hear and giving it to them. I think that's why Colonel Wallis has different - and effective - arguments for Sir Walter and Lady Russell. Lady Russell is very keen to see Mr Elliot in a good light because she wants him to marry Anne - she says: "I own that to be able to regard you as the future mistress of Kellynch, the future Lady Elliot, to look forward and see you occupying your dear mother's place, succeeding to all her rights, and all her popularity, as well as to all her virtues, would be the highest possible gratification to me" (ch.17).
@@DrOctaviaCox Wouldn't it be true to say that Lady Russell's principal failing and key value system is crediting rank? She values highly the baronetcy and by her friendship with the Elliots would not want their title to fall into the wrong hands. She wants Mr Elliot to be worthy of the title because she wants title to be the important thing. Like everyone else, she doesn't want cognitive dissonance. Just as she overlooks Sir Walter's manifest failings, so she is apt to do the same for his heir.
Mrs Smith and her nurse are of course sources of information about other characters -- we get to hear the sickroom gossip. People can be so unguarded with "their" nurse.
Colonel Wallis is successful with weak minds: Sir Walter, the Dalrymples, even Lady Russell. Anne -- persuaded as a younger woman, but now more aware of the follies and limitations of those around her -- is not so easily convinced. Something does not sit right with Mr Elliot, and the intelligence she receives from her own "military spies" (Mrs Smith, the nurse) undoes any stratagems of the Colonel and Mr Elliot. Also, she has the goodhearted honesty of Captain Wentworth and his naval companions to contrast with the deviousness and shallowness of Mr Elliot, his friends, and the dupes of his deceit -- and indeed the shallowness of Bath with its emphasis on show and grandeur, rather than moral worth.
Despite a lifetime of reading, studying and loving Jane Austen, I had never noticed this particular trick! As for examples, the Dixons never speak but they are firmly off-stage. Which is not really the same thing as people in the room who appear to be part of the conversation but whose words we never hear. Amazing.
Thank you! I love spotting Austen's tricks
I read it, remembered him, but now saw in full picture how persuasive and manipulative he was. I love these series and your analysing.
I am really enjoying this in-depth content and with each of your videos on the works of Jane Austen , realizing how brilliant she was as a writer . Thank you & greetings from America 🇺🇸 .
A fantastic writer indeed! So highly wrought. Thank you for watching all the way from America.
@Melissa Clay I couldn't agree more!!
I had never noticed this! Now I have to reread all of JAs books and see whether I can notice this for myself 🙂
One of the reasons I love JA's novels is because you can read them like little puzzles. You can see how she deploys and develops similar literary techniques across her writing.
Its always good to find another reason to read her books again!
Great video!
He's such a skilled manipulator that we don't even witness him changing everyone's opinions, we just hear about his actions after he's been and gone! We don't even really notice him. It's all done in passing.
He's like an invisible ninja!
Ha! - exactly.
Thank you, Ellie.
Never gonna get tired of your analysis.
Jane Fairfax maybe? She doesn't speak much in the novel.
Yes, you're right - she doesn't speak very much - I think she' i quite assertive when she does speak though. She won't, for instance, give up her trips to the post office (even in the rain!): "“You are extremely kind,” said Jane; “but I cannot give up my early walk...” Jane looked as if she did not mean to be conquered" (vol.2, ch.16).
And thank you. Much appreciated.
@@DrOctaviaCoxI would appreciate If you will do analysis on Jane's character as well someday 👉👈
@@nastyaissor7825 She's a fascinating character - a kind of heroine-who-isn't.
I was about to mention Jane Fairfax. I find it interesting that my husband, who is almost as much a fan of Austen as I am, can't stand Jane Fairfax! He just doesn't like her. Doesn't trust her. A close reading might reveal why this is so.
@Dr Octavia Cox Use of names is super important in Persuasion from Miss Elliot's expression of superiority of calling Miss Clay 'Penelope' to Austen's non use of names in Captain Wentworth's first quoted speech to Anne Elliot. "I beg your pardon, madam, this is your seat;" This shows Captain Wentworth's resentment to Anne Elliot for being persuaded to jilt him. Followed by how he subconsciously has always thought of her as Anne. After Louisa Musgrove falls...."but if Anne will stay, no one so proper, so capable as Anne." The text scrutinization to see Austen's use of 'Elliot' to show Colonel Wallis manipulation of Sir Walter is simply masterclass:)
It's not only Col Wallis and Mr Elliot who are manoevering at the concert. Anne appears to start her active campaign to re-engage with Captain Wentworth that same evening, a few days after the skirmish in the sweet shop and the botched scouting mission down Pulteney Street.
'Anne was the nearest to him, and making yet a little advance, she instantly spoke. He was preparing only to bow and pass on, but her gentle "How do you do?" brought him out of the straight line to stand near her...'
'and a little scheming of her own, Anne was enabled to place herself much nearer the end of the bench than she had been before, much more within reach of a passer-by.'
This is great! I'm so glad you talked about this. I just finished Persuasion (for the second or third time) a week ago, and was struck by how Austin portrayed people as being so willing to believe anything what someone says as long as someone else says they are highly reputable and reliable as judges of character.
In truth, people will always believe what they want to believe and display extreme naivete and trust based on mere hearsay. And they're negative assessments are based on mere hearsay, gossip, rumors.
People in general, in Jane Austen's world, seemed to value money over all other factors. Sir Walter and Elizabeth are also both obsessed with physical appearance. Good looks is a person's primary desirable attribute, according to them.
Even though Mr Elliot screwed them over the first time they encountered him, when he reappears, he is given another chance because he looks well, seems to behave well, and now has a ton of money. Sir Walter and Elizabeth are quick to believe these secondary reports without further investigation.
A person who looks well could not possibly have ulterior motives. Conversely, a person who doesn't look well, regardless of how sterling their character is, is not worthy of their notice. So they ignore Jane's good sense, judgment, and skepticism and make their assessments on purely superficial criteria.
As I'm reading through all of Jane Austen's novels, I want to think more about other silent characters.
We hear so much about lady Catherine de Berg in pride and prejudice from Mr Collins long before anyone from the Bennett household meets her in person. But of course they do.
Mrs Tilney from Northanger Abbey comes to mind. She obviously cannot speak directly to anyone anymore, but her presence saturates the house, saddens Eleanor Tilney's memories and mood, hunt Catherine's imagination, and, as you discussed previously, gives an insight into General Tilney's behavior toward her while she was alive.
Mrs Younge, in Pride and Prejudice, was another silent character who had a potent effect on Georgiana and a continued effect on Darcy's relationship with Wickham. Because of this, she had a significant, though indirect, effect on Darcy's relationship with Elizabeth.
I haven't read the other comments yet, but Mary King, also in Pride and Prejudice, comes to mind. Again, I refer to your discussion about how Wickham's interactions with her give insight into his true motives for most of his behavior - - that they were mercenary. We never hear Mary speak for herself; we only hear reports about her from the other characters. But she is instrumental in understanding Wickham's true character.
I'll keep thinking about silent characters as I get back to my chores. It's a challenge to try to see how many I can think of on my own without reading the discoveries of other people in the comments.
Ah yes Mary King - in a similar vein (re alternative lovers) we might think of Miss Grey in Sense and Sensibility perhaps? Rather interestingly, we don't hear directly from her, except through the letter she wrote as Willoughby rejecting Marianne (if we believe him): "The original was all her own-her own happy thoughts and gentle diction" (ch.44).
Mrs. Churchill in Emma is another character who is critical to the plot, and about whom we hear a great deal at second-hand, but who never makes a personal appearance and is never quoted directly. Mr. Churchill is also off-stage, but he is almost a non-entity.
Good example. I waited the whole novel for her to show up!
Well in that case Willoughby's Aunt, Mrs Smith may be another example.
Great example. He doesn't speak, but Mr Churchill does rather wonderfully seem to come out of his shell after Mrs Churchill's death.
@@jrpipik I rather wonder if that isn't another little joke. In P&P we have the 'big scene', the set-to, between Lady Catherine and Lizzy, which is what we might expect. But, in 'Emma' - as you suggest - the novel seems set up to have that scene, and readers might indeed expect to have that scene, and then Austen pointedly doesn't give it to us.
@@sharonstevek.6797 Yes, another good example. Mrs Smith rather bears the brunt of the excuses about Willoughby's behaviour. Willoughby says "Mrs. Smith has this morning exercised the privilege of riches upon a poor dependent cousin, by sending me on business to London", and Mrs Dashwood is "persuaded that Mrs. Smith suspects his regard for Marianne, disapproves of it" (S&S ch.15). It suits Willoughby to use Mrs Smith as a figure about whom he can attribute whatever he wants to.
I also find it interesting that Capt. Harville, who is much more mature and genuine, IS given a direct voice.
I was about to argue with you about Capt. Benwick. I thought, "Of course he speaks, he says,.....oh, wait a minute...no, he doesn't. He really is just quoted indirectly." It reminds me of when I was about nine years old and I suddenly realized that I didn't know what my cat's speaking voice sounded like. She talked all the time. She was clearly opinionated. We all attributed thoughts and feelings to her sounds but I was suddenly struck by the fact that she had never actually articulated them in English. It was only my imagination that she had. It was a little jolt out of childhood into adult understanding.
I felt the same after first hearing him named as a silent character, and had to go back and look at all his "conversations" with Anne. It's a rather amazing characterization.
Good point re Harville.
A lovely thought about your cat. Looking at the non-speaking characters, I think, can make us confront ourselves and how much - as you suggest - we might put into the mouth of another without stopping to consider whether we actually had it from them directly or not.
@@rachelport3723 I agree - such a beautiful touch by Austen!
Re: Captain Benwick - he speaks in the BBC Radio Play adaptation... =} but yeah, I did a total WUTFACE?!?! when she said that as well. =D Wasn't he talking to Anne a ton?!?!interrobang!!
It's like _don't show the monster._
The actual manipulation will fail if it's spoken in dialogue, but if you talk about how the others experience said manipulation, it will be more effective for the readers.
And, of course, it is all spoken in confidence. So we, the readers, just receive tantalising reports of what was said -- or rather heard. "We" were not present at the confidential conversations.
Colonel Wallis seems to me to be a first class con artist. At a much later date I could see him on the Riviera charming wealthy middle aged widows and assuring them of the sterling qualities of his good friend Mr Elliot (of very good family). A true double act. Jane Austen is very clever in not giving the actual words the Colonel uses as these could be less convincing to the reader than anything we can imagine for ourselves.
Austen is excellent at leaving gaps for the reader to fill. As you suggest, I think Colonel Wallis is a great example of this.
Like the brother and sister con artists (Stanley and Adele) who so take in Bertie Wooster's fearsome Aunt Agatha, at "Reauville" so that they can steal her pearls. Of course, Jeeves saves the day ...!
You are a delight to listen to! Thank you so much for sharing!
And thank you for the compliment! - Much appreciated.
One thing I find interesting in Austen's work (only read the six finished novels) is the names. For me, a Swede who can read English sufficient enough, but don't get all the nuances, I've been wondering of some of the names: is it obvious for everyone that Wickham is wicked, or is it me who read too much into his name? And Wentworth, worth waiting for? Or Willoughby is a "villain"?
If this is the case, are there other names in Austen's books where English speakers directly understand the "joke"?
Christina E - an interesting idea; might this (reading character from a name) be the literary equivalent of Sir Walter and Elizabeth's habit of reading character from looks?
Is not a Willow graceful and beautiful to look at, but at the same time very flexible?
Oh, I can see that; Willoughby being good looking, and with a lot of inner qualities, but "bending" and taking the easiest way.
That is an example of me not being native English speaker 😃 I know what a willow is, but didn't think of it here. So nice to get the input and thoughts from other Austen readers!
There is a little joke Austen makes herself in Persuasion. It's about the Musgrove's deceased son, named Richard.
"He had, in fact, though his sisters were now doing all they could for him, by calling him 'poor Richard,' been nothing better than a thick-headed, unfeeling, unprofitable Dick Musgrove, who had never done anything to entitle himself to more than the abbreviation of his name, living or dead."
Funny to think about Austen straight up calling a guy a Dick hahahaha 😂😂😂
Persuasion is my favorite. Loving the details.
It's brilliant. Thank you.
It seems to me that Mrs Harville is also instrumental in redirecting James Benwick’s attention away from Anne Elliot and possibly towards Louisa as well. She was in the best place to see and hinder that development if she thought it inappropriate. The Harville family have known FW well for a very long time, they may well have known about his ruptured engagement and why it was unsuccessful without actually knowing the lady’s name. They do know that he does not plan to marry Louisa after all, unless she wishes. The episode of Mrs Harville apologising to Mary for not giving her precedence at the dining table is there for a reason.
I really enjoy your videos, especially the Austen analyses! It’s so intriguing considering the impact of ‘behind the scenes’ characters. I find it very interesting that in all of the Persuasion film adaptations I’ve seen they’ve not shown Col. Wallis either. Keeps up the mystery!
Great point - I think it's one of the things that makes Austen's novels so plausible is that she pays attention to the motivations, quirks, nuances, etc even of 'minor', or as you say 'behind-the-scenes,' characters, so the worlds she creates feel inhabited by realistic, flawed individuals all with their own agendas, feelings, motivations, etc.
You're right, I could not remember Colonel Wallis at all! He's very persuasive indeed.
that makes two of us ahah
I was so excited to see this up, I just finished the book last night!
Perfect timing!
You can start it all over again and notice all these parts that Dr Octavia mentions 👍
You have such a soothing voice, you should do audiobooks.
The Bennett's housekeeper in Pride & Prejudice. She's keeping the household running, and she's seen some things. And Lady Catherine de Burgh's daughter. Poor Anne is constantly being pushed at Darcy, but who knows if she's even slightly interested. She doesn't seem to bother pursuing Darcy herself. Robert Martin, farmer and suitor of Harriet in Emma. Both Knightly and Emma have unlikely friends in the lower classes.
I loved your analysis! I’m not that proficient in any language to be able to read deeply into how the author has written the words so it was very interesting to hear about it and you gave me new insight into the book. I’ve moved too much so languages get too mixed up in my head, heh.
Ha - well, I'm glad you enjoyed the analysis!
You cannot do better than study English with Jane Austen! She uses the language with great subtlety and precision. I think of her as the Mozart of novel-writers.
@@ezb6798 Indeed, I’m starting to learn how well written her books have been! No wonder they have gathered so many fans and adaptations of her works on screen. I’ve been liking her writing for a long time and keep learning more about it constantly.
@@ezb6798 A great comparison! Really like Mozart. Reads lightly, but the more you look into it, the deeper it gets.
I would be interested to hear what actors think about performing Austen, do they also have this feeling that even though every phrase is easy, it never sounds *just* right (pianist bias)...
@@ezb6798 Jane Austen is a great English writer.The methods she uses -- even pioneers -- set her apart. She is also an outstanding observer of people, and captures all the minute differences and characteristics. Lady Russell, for example, may be easily persuaded by appearances, like the Elliots, but she does care for Anne and value her -- unlike the other Elliots who either use Anne (Mary) or prefer the company of others (Elizabeth). Similarly in Pride and Prejudice we see many different couples -- the Bennets, the Gardners, the Collinses, the Wickhams, even the Lucases, and finally the Darcys and Bingleys. No two couples are the same: they all have distinctive, very human, characteristics.
We are discussing two different kinds of characters, really - first, those who are present and interacting in the scenes we read, but who are never quoted directly, like Col. Wallis, Capt. Benwick, Georgianna Darcy, Anne de Bourgh; secondly, those who do not appear at all, but who affect the plot, and are talked about by other characters, like Mrs. Younge, Mrs. Smith (Sense and Sensibility), Mrs. Churchill, the Campbells and Dixons, Mrs Wallis. I don't know if the second group should be called silent - perhaps unseen. Then there are the background characters, who are named, and talked about, but don't affect the plot much - various townspeople and officers in Pride and Prejudice, for example, and almost all the children who appear in any of the novels. But as I understand this video, it is the first group who are meant - those who we think we hear speaking, yet who are never quoted directly.
Talking of Mr Perry, I understand that he is about to set up with a carriage.
Brilliant - shadow persuasion going on throughout the book without anyone spotting it! Loving your analysis.
I've read Austen's work so often that I've virtually memorized most of it and I've figured out most of these hints. Persuasion is my favorite and I've managed to completely miss Colonel Wallis's machinations. Bravo! Now I have to read it again.
I am not sure whether the former Mrs Churchill fits the bill as a silent character but there are many similarities between her and and the first wife of Mr. Elliot. She is also richer than her husband and very much in love with him. And come to think of it another very important but silent character is Lady Churchill, Frank's snob aunt
Totally off topic but I really like your blouse.
I came here to say the same thing!
Another interesting, in-depth piece of analysis that helps us appreciate Austen all the more! As for silent characters, what about Lady Middleton? I'm thinking we hear her talk about her children, but not her actual words. I also seem to remember that when the Dashwood girls first meet her, she has very little to say for herself.
Thank you, Elise. Lady Middleton's vacuity is described wonderfully! You're right - her talk is clearly inane. The narrative even makes a little joke of this: "Most grateful did Elinor feel to Lady Middleton for observing, at this moment, “that it rained very hard,” though she believed the interruption to proceed less from any attention to her, than from her ladyship’s great dislike of all such inelegant subjects of raillery as delighted her husband and mother" (ch.12).
Mrs Harville is very important, she is in a hugely influential position in Persuasion and has a profound effect on the outcomes but we never hear her say anything. Cpt Harville has known Cpt Wentworth for a long time, probably from the Navel Academy when the boys were very young. He will know the whole back story.
Yes, good shout. We are given plenty of evidence of her kind influence, but - as you say - not directly from her own mouth - for example, "Mrs Harville's giving it as her opinion that her husband would have quite walking enough by the time he reached home, determined the direction of all the party in what was to be their last walk" (ch.12).
@@DrOctaviaCox my firm belief is that she is also instrumental in redirecting James Beswick’s attention towards Louisa, that she guessed Anne Elliot was FW’s former interest after Mary makes a fuss about taking precedence over Mrs Musgrove. We are given that information for a reason.
@@catrionahall9444hi! Could you explain a bit more about Mrs. Harville realising the relationship between Anne and Cp. WW because of Mary? I'm trying tô understand, but it seems I'm missing something 🤔 thank you for your time
@Dr Octavia Cox Catherine Morland's Father may be the most influential unquoted character in all of Austen's novels. When he hears that he is engaged to Isabella Thorpe. He chooses to give his Son James £400 a year when
he comes of age in 2 and a half years plus another £400 a year on his death. He gives Catherine £3000 when she Marry's Henry Tilney. Among Austen scholars its accepted that all daughter's dowries are the same which means that Mr Morland would have needed to provide the same £3000 dowry for Catherine's six younger sisters. This infers that he had the means of providing for his Son's marriage straight away but choose to delay the marriage to test the betrothed attachment to each other. Henry Tilney had two good living's and Catherine had £3000 so they had ample to Marry on. Mr Morland chooses to delay giving his consent to the marriage until General Tilney does as Catherine has only known Henry Tilney for eleven weeks and i suspect wishes to make sure Catherine is sure before she commits herself.
Is that a theme across Austen novels - the deceitful double-act? I'm sure Wickham relied on Denny to help with his deceptions too.
Love your videos. Thank you!
(Your ‘studio’ set up is very very ‘warm’. Maybe you could face the windows so your face has more natural (and cooler) light on it. Having windows behind you when video taping or zooming is always really hard. Your camera does the best it can but struggles w the contrast. Try things out to see what makes your skin less orange. If you want...) hope this is useful! - :)
Agree, and I also think that Austen uses our own imagination "againt us". Like, for me, horror stories that don't tell everything are more scary than those who do. And here, if we could read what Cl Wallis said, maybe we would notice how little facts he had for the case; for Mr Elliot, but now we get it through these other carachters, and we cannot be sure if we would've agreed? We are not able to judge Mr Elliot from what his friend tells, which keep Mr Elliot hard to understand and "pinpoint" - and this Anne gets more and more aware of when Mr Elliot continues to court her.
And, by the way, I was almost as shocked as Emma when Mrs Elton said "Knightley", and I'm not native English speaker, but that I have learnt!
Yes, just reading the spoken words -- without seeing or hearing all the non-verbal signals, the tone of voice, the facial expression, the acting, that made Colonel Wallis so trustworthy for Sir Walter -- would not give us the experience that Sir Walter had. We needed to know what Sir Walter felt, not the mere words that Colonel Wallis said. The art of persuasion is much more than mere words.
I love this novel to death, and your analysis is interesting and brilliant as always! Persuasion is in my view the most "quiet" from the Austen bunch. Lots of repeating or thinking about what others said, less direct dialog. Do we ever hear Mrs. Clay speak, or is she just looming in the background? Thank you for another great video!
I remember her speaking a little. There’s a scene near the beginning where she takes part in conversation about choosing people to take on the Elliot house and I remember she talks about Mr. Elliot with Elizabeth (saying how Sir Walter and Mr. Elliot look like father and son etc).
@@N_0968 ""Quite delightful!" cried Mrs Clay, not daring, however, to turn her eyes towards Anne. "Exactly like father and son! Dear Miss Elliot, may I not say father and son?"" (ch.22).
Yes, great point. A lot of the novel concerns Anne's internal processing of events as they unfold. And then when Anne finally feels confident enough to engage in the heartfelt discussion with Harville readers are given the transcript of dialogue. Another beautiful touch by Austen.
@@DrOctaviaCox I have always wondered, what happened to Mrs Clay's children. Where were they when she was in Bath? And after she runs away with Mr Elliot?
Persuasion is my favorite book. I definitely know who he is. 😄
Not my fav book but I know who everybody is in the books. I keep reading them. Again and again. My safe place :)
I just discovered your channel by chance and I am loving all your videos. Persuassion is my favorite book.
I love you videos, and I was wondering if you might do a video on why the Lovers Vows Play the group want to put on at Mansfield Park was considered so controversial amongst the group?
I wonder if the “That had been the charm” was the narrator supplying the fact or commenting on sir Walter’s following of events. It would be an interesting bit to have Colonel Wallis, Sir Walter and the Narrator all intertwined like that.
After seeing Col. Wallis in this way as a master manipulator and a careful talker, it makes me think about another off-stage scene with him. When Mrs. Smith explains how Col. Wallis tells things to his wife that he "ought not to." I wonder, now, if Col. Wallis is intentionally telling things to his wife knowing it will have the chance to spread. Perhaps he's intentionally wanting to spread gossip about Mr. Elliot's interest in Anne to strengthen Mr. Elliot's prospects?
So Mr. Elliot was going to inherit Kellynch Hall regardless if he married Anne (provided her father didn't have an heir). So why didn't he go for Elizabeth (who had more influence over Sir Walter) rather than Anne?
Because Elizabeth has unpleasant personality, which he had noticed in the first state of his relationship with the Kellynch Elliots. He is genuinely attracted to Anne, however. Perhaps, as Anne's husband and the future Sir William, he would have had a lot of influence over Sir Walter, offsetting Elizabeth's influence.
I hope you will do more analysis of novels. With poetry, it’s always more of the feeling “I should learn this”, with novels “I want to learn this”.
Very illuminating. I am so pleased I found this channel.
I would like to say something here about the process of writing, of creating a story that is written down. Not all of it, and often it is most of it, is planned, plotted and thought out to the nth degree. The fact is that the principal characters are so deeply imbedded in the mind that writing is automatic. Characters act and speak without a detailed outline and without what we would call conscious thought. You sit down to write and the story simply appears on the page or on the computer screen while your mind churns it out. And that is the best part of writing...when it flows automatically because your subconscious which is doing the writing can be trusted. Reading it over afterwards is like reading someone else's work and one is often amazed how well everything is set down and expressed. Trying to achieve this effect consciously often results in stilted conversation and descriptions that are "kitch". Much better to trust the subconscious, it does not fail. So, perhaps Jane Austen wrote this character into the novel on automatic?
What an intriguing point! You're right, I had completely failed to notice that he is never quoted directly. It's all indirect. It would be fascinating to see what would have happened if he had tried his wiles on Anne, who has at least an adequate amount of discernment. Though Wallis was likely smart enough not to try his skills on any who could see through him!
I think what makes Colonel Wallis so GOOD at manipulation is that, even tho he uses different words and arguments for each person...the stories aren't mutually exclusive. Because the fact that Mrs.Elliot, was madly in love with Mr.Elliot does not contradict Mr.Elliot being unhappy in the marriage. If Sir Elliot and Lady Russell were both to talk to Colonel or to each other, they'd surely find a reason as to why having an adoring wife would still make an unhappy marriage for Mr.Elliot and make him worthy of pity/sympathy. After all, we don't hear HIM being in love. Maybe the charm wore off? Maybe the lady was overbearing or improper? Maybe she was dull, despite her feelings ect. There would be justification, and the slight difference wouldn't strike anyone. Maybe with exception of Anne, who, by this time is a bit more catious about persuessions, and more on her guard when it comes to Mr.Elliot. Plus she has Mrs.Smith who provides actual evidence of Mr.Elliot being a bad man. She has someone, who, like Colonel Wallis KNEW him and his wife.
Thank you so much for your videos. Along with being interesting and thought provoking, in covid times they are also a delight, an escape and a comfort. Thank you very much for that.
This was very good. I've been advised by someone (off stage) that common sense, emotional maturity, and a few trip around the figurative barn (or earlier battlefield maneuvers) can easily maintain the strategic ground if their owner trusts their own instincts and analysis, knows who their friends are and trusts them, and always questions the glib, the blowhards, the whiners, the vain, and the emotional blackmailers.
Anne at 27 is NOT the Anne of 19. Captain Wentworth was a doer and a man of character; the young Elliot is a duplicitous parasite and blackguard.
PERSUASION is my favorite Jane Austen novel. I understand that it may be considered simplistic, in relation to Jane Austen's other novels; I still think in merits thought and discussion.
Your talks have deepened my appreciation of Jane Austen and her ability to analyze and depict humans often at their worst. I had never given the silent characters much thought before this. Silent meaning that we don't actually hear their own words we hear their words through others. " insofar as Sir Walter has a mind" is a brilliant condemnation of this foolish man. Lady Russell by this time to see and settled having talked her out of one marriage and unable to talk her into the second proposal and is hoping the third time will pay for all. We know of course that Anne is smarter than all of them and has grown Beyond the danger of being persuaded against her own happiness. By the way there was another remake in the works but as far as I'm concerned the Amanda root and ciaran Hinds version is the only one I will watch. Others no doubt hold a different opinion
I’m also recalling the conversations Anne Elliot has with Mrs Smith where Mrs Wallis is ‘ lying in’ and is attended by Mrs Smith’s landlady. It’s how Anne Elliot becomes aware of Elliot’s duplicity.
Another fabulous 'deep-dive' into a topic which I had not thought about too deeply. I hadn't really thought about the 'nuts & bolts' of the collusion. As Mrs. Clay was the agent's daughter, presumably Mr. Elliot or The Colonel must have agreed to approach her at some point. Probably Colonel W to sound her out initially just in case Mrs. Clay was not amenable. Come to think of it I suppose Mrs. Clay's behaviour isn't despicable: she merely hopes to marry well and is happy to pass on some gossip if she thinks it will help her cause. Could Sir Walter produce a new heir with Mrs. Clay? If so they the plotter would have to have a plan to prevent the marriage once Mrs. Clay had served her purpose.
As for Mrs Elliots physical beauty, I think that is Sir Walter’s imagination, I think the Colonel has just said something like “she was all that is charming” and it is Sir Walter’s empty headed vanity that assumes that means physically beautiful as this is all Sir Walter gives a damn about. In the eyes of the young Mr Elliot £10,000 is “all that is charming”.
Probably won’t be seen now because this is a pretty old video, but I’d love to have a video dedicated to how people address each other and what we can read from this in Austen’s works (like the example from *Emma* discussed around 13:00).
Also I ordered the book ‘What Matters in Jane Austen?’ after hearing about it here. Im looking forward to it arriving. 😊
So good….so sneaky and manipulative, a master in the arts of deceit for his own advancement. But, by appealing to their egos, convinces them that these brilliant ideas were exactly what they thought all along.
It is at this point that I am currently rereading the novel Persuasion. It gave me an uneasy feeling at just how easily “Elliot” was won over after such a protracted snub. You’re analysis has helped me understand how much vanity, attractiveness, money and status really mattered “to such a person as he”.
I noticed Col Wallis in the 1995 Persuasion movie with Amanda Root. Mostly because the nurse said the Col had remarked that Mr. Elliott required another loan & all his money was gone.
Off the top of my head, I think perhaps Mrs Rushworth in Mansfield Park never says anything in direct speech but I would have to re-read the book to be sure. To my mind she is a significant character in that she lets the young people down as do Sir Thomas and Lady Bertram and Mrs Norris, in her case in failing to perceive that Maria Bertram has a low opinion of her son, with terrible consequences later on. Another who never speaks in Mansfield Park is Miss Lee, but perhaps she isn't important enough to count. And another character whom I have mentioned before is the servant 'who will not be silenced' after Maria leaves her husband's house with Henry Crawford. The reader is left to speculate about what she has to say, a brilliant touch from Austen (as usual). Then there are Mary Crawford's fashionable 'friends' in London whose words Mary quotes in letters to Fanny.
Thank you for raising this, it's a fascinating topic.
I wish we could have heard (OK, read!) the conversations to see what Sir Walter and Lady Russell were saying that enabled Col Wallis to make his persuasive comments. What did they say that enabled him to make those quite different arguments? How had he picked up on Sir Walter's weakness for good looks? What had Lady Russell said that showed him that an appeal to her pity or sympathy for an unhappily married man would further Mr Elliott's interests? Col Wallis was certainly a manipulator but he was also a clever man, I think. I just wish I could have seen him at work. On the other hand the passages wouldn't be quite so funny if we weren't just seeing them from Sir Walter's and Lady Russell's perspective!
I enjoyed the comparison of John Thorpe's "proposal" to Mr. Collins' proposal in Pride and Prejudice and regarding his ending up with Charlotte.
Looking at the colonels in Austen's books, Col. Wallis is outwardly as charming and amiable as Col. Fitzwilliam. His choice of a silly young wife is like Col. Forster's; that and his friendship with Mr. Eliot raise doubts about his character. Col. Brandon has more integrity. I'd like to think Col. Fitzwilliam does as well, since he and Darcy seem to be friends as well as cousins, but I don't think the text gives us much insight into his integrity. Col. Forster is largely silent in the books as well - we hear more about him than see him in action.
I did read somewhere that Jane Austen never directly describes a conversation in which a woman is not present. So that could explain SOME of this technique.
I think there is another, more subtle, example of Colonel Wallis at work in the book. He attempts to influence Mrs Smith, and, through her, Anne Elliot. Nurse Rooke attends both Mrs Smith and Mrs Wallis, and passes news (or opinion that appears to be news) from the latter to the former with regard to Mr Elliot and his pursuit of Anne. It isn't a successful attempt - it isn't clear if the Wallises know of Mrs Smith's previous relationship with Mr Elliot and the strength of her dislike of him, and of course Anne is immune from Mr Elliot's charm because of her feelings for Captain Wentworth.
What if Colonel Wallis wasn't manipulative at all? Lady Russell and Sir Elliot are both obstinate in their views and search for confirmation bias. Sir Walter's "observation" of the scarcity of beauty and Lady Russell's defense of Mr. Elliot to Anne with little regard to Anne's own observations demonstrate some of their faults in opinion and argument. I think Austen used Wallis as a tool to magnify character flaws.
This was fascinating. Not only apropos of Colonel Wallis but also Captain Benwick. I have read 'Persuasion' several times and yet had never noticed that he is not given any direct speech.
One thing that I do not understand from the story is what motivates Col Wallis. He clearly seems to be conspiring with Mr Elliot. What has Mr Elliot offered him to induce him to take on these missions? Austen has painted a mercenary and underhanded picture of Mr Elliot and we are led to assume that Col Wallis is cut from the same cloth. Though the novel has light and humorous overtones here, perhaps we should see implied something more sinister? Col Wallis will get some kind of payoff: what is it, who will pay for it?
I have read Persuasion so many times but missed Colonel Wallis! There are so many manipulations behind the scenes in this novel! I would love to hear your thoughts on Mrs. Clay and her manipulations. Was she then manipulated by Mr. Elliot?
I think it's interesting that Mrs. Wallis is the exact same as her husband. Mrs. Smith gets all of her "information" through her, and never realizes it could be on purpose.
Col. Wallis is the ultimate wingman. Too bad he's supporting the villain...