State of Beta Healer List - How READY Is Your Spec For Release
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- Опубліковано 25 лип 2024
- The War Within Beta is under and I have played every healer and every hero talent combo so far. In this video we look at each healer as it stands on Beta right now and how prepared each spec is for release later this summer!
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00:00 Intro
00:55 Mistweaver Monk
03:01 Holy Priest
06:15 Preservation Evoker
10:23 Disc Priest
13:13 Resto Druid
16:23 Resto Shaman
19:54 Holy Paladin
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This is the tier list I've been waiting for. Great info Jak, thanks for all the foot work.
You bet!
And four weeks after the release, the whole tier list changes as in every addon.
@@zeljkosavic3586 that's true. I just enjoy seeing what strong players are feeling to help me choose what class to possibly main vs alt. I know anything is playable especially if you have guildies to play with but I pug quite a bit and sometimes pug perspective determines what invites you get or don't get. That's all.
SOS - Save Our Shamans
Hey man - thanks for the really insightful content here. I am trying to figure out a healer main as I'm currently an HPal and I appreciate you going beyond just numbers here to highlight some of the underlying core gameplay issues.
It's a lot to think about.
Shamans have needed a complete rework since BFA the fact that they have not seen any attention and were 2 months outside of xpac launch is a sign of either apathy from the class design team or incompetence.
Another patch on beta with 0 shaman changes for any spec. Forgotten class 😭
its simply infuriating seeing all these classes getting revamps, buffs etc. and Shamans still not even having one single Bluepost about them.
If Blizzard won't do something about it a lot of people will be mad as fuck
What's so bad or wrong with how shaman plays? What specifically needs to be fixed?
@@baseboned No unique utility to incentivize being brought to raid *or* m+ (resto/ele), ele and enh tree have archaic splits in their spec trees between 2 fundamentally different build paths (no other class in the game has this issue), ele's gameplay is degenerate and when properly executed you're overcapping an insane amount of your resource, one of if not the weakest defensive spec in the game, ankh is a much worse version of a cheat death with a 30 minute cd that doesn't reset on wipe, hero trees are some of the worst in the game and are very uninspired and the defensive nodes for farseer and stormbringer are near-0-value. I could go on but I don't want to write an essay
@@DarkMage501agreed and same
Thanks a lot for this video Jak! Was waiting for it! Despite anything I'll go for my DiscPriest!
On another note want to thank you for all the work you do, so inspiring!
Just wanna say really love how you discussed abilities and hero talents based on how they feel to press and how they feel in terms of theme.
This is left out a lot when it comes to videos like these from a lot of high end players but it feels important to a lot of people, so to hear you discuss it that way mixed in with a high level mindset/high level exp as well is really nice.
And also how a button feels to press is arguably one of the most important parts of combat in wow, it’s why blessing of summer is hated so much (you also mentioned this in other videos) because you don’t feel it or notice it. You just press it and it’s there on logs, yet it’s in such a prominent spot in the tree.
Resto Shaman's and Holy Paladins really need to get looked at, insane how Holy Paladin got nerfed after their rework but VDH got to stick around with 2 seasons of theirs dominating pugging and title.
And Mages, Shadow priests, Augs...
@@RinaaaYa Mages S Priests and Augs have gotten so much love and rework while Shaman has gotten zero since BFA......
VDH is too good
@@Aggrofool its worse that DK and prot now on tww.. they put it into the ground finally.
yep, nobody says the nerfs after S2 were undeserved, but since then hpal has been borderline unplayable for competetive m+ in 2 seasons. Thats how many months at this point, like 8? Don't mind playing an A- or even B-Tier spec, but seeing your spec in c-/d-tier for that long is just...F
Finally, tier list season begins!
ty! super helpful
My glorious Holy Paladin. A day will come when the sun shines on you again
Midnight expansion or 11.1
Thank you for all your hard work !.😍
Herald nerf was expected but like Ellesmere said in his disc: "why tf are my holy shocks healing for 3% of my HP?"
Baseline Hpal spells needs to be looked at. Remove all those modifiers like Dusk and Dawn and make the core spells stronger. That way Lightsmith can compete with Herald and our buttons feel impactful to press for once.
i have to ask, are you using virtue?
@@HeIIaAverage I prefer Virtue over Faith due to DB/DT combos. But have been testing both in Beta. I would 100% run Virtue always if paladin didnt have so many buttons specially with Armaments
@@RinaaaYa is this something from beta?
I really want a lot of power moved out of glimmer and daybreak and back into holy shock.
Holy shock's identity is THE instant, almost always available spot-heal.
Instead it's split up into like 4 different things, and nobody signed up to play hpal at this point to be a healer that spams 30 second hots.
In fact, I'd assume most of them signed up in the last 7 years to cash in on sick wings proc rolls and awakening is lame as hell rn.
@@HeIIaAverage yep! Holy armaments is the new ability from Lightsmith. Thing with lighsmith is that its yet another button to the more bloated healer in the game. Hpal has like 6+ CDs to press/maintain so having another one is not looking good.
Also, both holy shock and WoG feels exactly the same as in S4 of DF, so rhe better option is to take Herald of the Sun instead, the other Hero talent tree since it buffs WoG and Holy Shock significantly, though some its RNG which also doesnt feel that good.
Hpal is still lacking spot healing, at least consistent spot healing. In beta they nerfed Beacons considerably, Glimmer by 16% and Tyrs was nerfed into the ground to buff our spenders and holy shock, but they still feel as weak as retail.
Then you go and play MW or Prevoker or Hpriest in the same beta, and you notice how much your spells lack impact compared to those classes. They feel like 50% stronger, and though many will say its a beta, numbers will change, well I have a counterpoint. Hpal was like this for half of DF and developers didnt address it for almost a year now.
love the vid. for what its worth, I actually enjoy Blessing of Summer and hope it stays. its unique and I enjoy throwing out little buffs
Love the video! Rsham could use any changes haha, they're virtually untouched outside of hero talents atm.
Wishlist would make some reduced 2 point nodes in general tree, and would love vigor to be less costly to take on the spec tree.
Also, CH is so dominant now that downpour and wellspring lack, and they contribute to button bloat. It would be nice to give them a new niche or replace them with something else
sheesh well as a holy pala main this is basically nail in coffin for me to not even bother playing the expac on launch, had multitude of other reasons but yeeeee thats rough
Nice to see you playing with @equinox!! My favorite tank content creator.
for me the issue with hpal is how weak individual holy shocks have to be as long as it has so many modifiers tied to it like glimmer, the DR talent, rising sunlight procs, etc
this is why I m am benching mine once again until it feels good again. I ' ll be maining priest and might play again rdruid as althealer or respecing to prot pally
Yes. And how weak the spenders feel. All the extra hots and effects and such make it feel unrewarding to play.
As far as the burst healing output that you mentioned for shaman, farseer supplies that. Moreso than totemic imo. I mean i know many ppl dont like pressing UL, but that along with ancestral swiftness supplies insane on demand burst healing. Thats just my take.
It's our favorite Resto Druid streamer, AutomaticJak!
On the note of reversion, it would GREATLY help pres if there could be an obvious difference of the strength of your reversions on the frames. Between echo, temporal anomaly echoes, and now this buffed reversion from the tier set, its gonna be hard to tell who should receive what especially in a raid environment.
Good point!
For Mistweaver do you think there will be any viable build for M+ that is not depend on Ancient teachings?
Love to see holy priest in a pretty good place. Thanks for the work you put into this one.
I still love playing resto druid in battlegrounds and arenas, though, in both retail and classic
All healers just don't heal me, why is that?
You are too far away.
The totemic shaman playstyle that was described sounded really fun. Was the only reason it was so low because the other hero tree sucked? or were there more problems?
another exceptional piece of content jak
Regarding avenging crusader and Jack’s point that “a lot of healers are doing the damage to healing thing”, avenging crusader at the time of implementation was one of two “damage to healing” effects next to atonement. It’s sad that melee wings was never more iterated on to become an iconic “damage to healing while in melee” as opposed to atonement healing.
First of all: thanks for your vids!! Brilliant!
Second thing: it would be nice if you attach or show a details from the dung u are playing in the vid (with dps and hps)
The thing is numbers can always be tuned. How the specs feel to play is the most important thing right now and including meters would take away from that. Now as we get closer to launch yeah meters and performance are important
@@nickgarpow ahaha I know, i mean the feeling of the gameplay is absolutely over all. I was only curious about the output during a real game (and not dummies spam). P.s. sorry for my awful english, I hope it's understandable :D
I was a healer main from WoD through to DF. I think this is the first time I'll be switching back to DPS in a long time. The spiky design of damage and healing m+ has just never been fun to me, and I've played mistweaver to death.
Loved the Doomfist name drop in comparison to hpal
As a resto shaman main, thank you for listing my options for a new main. I was thinking MW so, this all but confirms it.
Rsham is just fine i don't understand i pushed Rsham to 3k rating every season no sweat. You guys are just rerolling FOTM because of some tier list? Bro these list do not matter and if you're going from rsham to MW you're in for a hell of a ride, get ready to learn meleeness buddy
@@sy-ky_buddy4603 In all my seasons and tiers of healing, I've only mained a resto shaman. I've played every flavor of shaman at a high level. Pushing 3k rating on it means very little. All healers have been capable of that for ever. Clearing content doesn't mean the class is fine, it means the class is functional enough to do content. The class feels clunky and like half the talents don't even matter. It's not about numbers, this is not FOTM rolling, I'm tired of the class I love being forgotten about by the devs. The devs who clearly ignore their players when we've asked for help in our trees, our tiers, our core gameplay, and any sort of survivability.
My raid leader said he's looking for a MW or druid. I was leaning MW before this video, and I trust jak when it comes to healing. So him saying MW is in a decent spot functionally, helps my decision. Tier lists do not matter, it's what he said about MW that does. (also I've mained enhance for many seasons also, so melee is my comfort zone)
i really wish they'd change Ultimate Penitence before the xpac comes out... and no, I have no real suggestions on how to 'fix' it- i just think a 4 minute cd ability with bad locked animation isn't the best thing. i'm glad you mentioned the 'dead branches' of the disc tree because i truly feel they could easily make small adjustments to both Contrition and Aegis of Wrath without completely remaking the nodes.
Yea big time! Don't need to reinvent the wheel for them but just add some kind of love for those old abilities
It honestly hit me just how unfun holy pala is during my push this season, on any other healer I can press a button and feel the impact of the heal, while I have to be on a constant uphill to make sure everyone doesn't drop quickly through utility because god knows how hard it is to get back up once you're behind on hp bars
Idk how I manage this, but somehow, my main is always on the bottom of the list for each expac
main the specc you hate the most. then see it dropping to the bottom and enjoy the cries
lol I feel you!
Not sure if it is fully applicable, but Preservation Evoker can spec into Flame Breath adding a heal to nearby people.....not sure if that counts as turning damage into healing.
When do you think they went off the rails with paladin? Been main prot for a few years now, but I loved holy in bc.
And here I was intending to change my main... from Ele Sham to HPal hahaha I really hope they fix this, I want to enjoy the game. It just doesn't happen since SL
I am currently split on Priest or Shaman for main. All 3 Priest hero talents look nice to me currently. Totemic Shaman playstyle just looks so temping and their tier set is not a bad one where disc might have issues as you said. If you look at classes that have had changes or reworks in DF then Shaman is probably due next. What happens to it is anyones guess. Whatever people choose as there main. There are no real wrong choices. Play what you like. :D
Joy... The two classes I play are holy paladin and resto shaman... I dont know what to do anymore
This video has sealed the deal on my main for tww, i was debating on resto shaman or holy priest and i can say now that ill stick to holy priest 👌 i mained resto druid for 2 seasons now and wanna try something new
10th video I've watched this morning on tiers. Everyone is different. Take these vids for a grain if salt.
Without having played the new hero talents for resto shaman. I feel like the core of the restoration shaman is good. But we have too many cooldowns that all basically function as immediate giant throughput multipliers.
I feel like we have too many things to upkeep when their value can often feel transparent. (and they are much more important to keep up than it appears)
Earth Shield on yourself and the tank
Riptides on your party. (important for the deluge talent)
Healing rain over the mobs
Cloudburst in preparation for damage 10-20+ seconds in the future.
Riptide in particular has an identity crisis, is it supposed to be our first spell in response to damage? or it just our blanket HoT spell? It'd be cool if Riptide healed dynamically, where the HoT duration is longer if the target is closer to full health and the initial healing is higher if the target is at lower health.
The Talent tree has some issues though. We are stuck too heavily in triple capstone builds, too many boring multi-point talents, I don't think you should be able to have both Ascendance AND Deeply Rooted Elements, Earthliving weapon is really boring and invisible.
Unleash Life has an extremely difficult time competing with Undulation. This seems particularly concerning because Farseer is centered around unleash life, and sounds like it summons a Naaru like Priest's Divine Image talent.
Downpour and Wellspring are basically dead because they don't interact with anything in the kit (or worse have anti-synergy with unleash-life). It's kinda silly that the talent DELUGE doesn't effect a spell called downpour.
Overall it feels hard to take even a few fun or different talents in Resto-shaman. I feel like it's hard to move a single point just to get Lava Surge.
This ALL being said the class still works and is great for M+.
Those Holy Paladins though. those guys are drowning AND on fire.
Cycling CDs are how Hpally played in season 3 and 4 you would pop on and go into the next and eventually the first Cds would be up. Daybreak doesn't do as much anymore but you still have 2+ builds with the hero talents. Lightsmith is a fistweave play style that makes the dmg to healing viable. from what i tested it did comparable to the other hero tree that focused on the generic holy paladin play style of holy shock medic. I feel that Hpally is really underrated. they don't need a rework. an adjustment to talents to balance classes short Cds
I feel like they need to tune up the HP spenders even more (LoD, WoG..) and they need to bring one new skill that consume 3 HP to enhance your next skill, something like:
- Your next Holy Shock's healing or damage is gonna apply to up to 5 targets10y around the main target (prior will be based on the main target).
- Your next Consecration will have 100% more range, can be placed in a 30y range, and it will proc Glimmer of Light effects on both allies and enemies for each tick (25% of the GoL effect for allies, 20% for enemies).
- Your next Light of Dawn will cost no HP and will be cast an additional time for free.
- Your next Beacon of Virtue will trigger an AoE healing from each Beacon healing up to 5 allies in 10y around it for a small amount (thing is, this healing, if people are kinda packed, would be a really decent insta heal for 5 players on M+ for example).
The light of dawn one would mean you never spend hpower on it, you would only even spend 3 hpower to make next one free and double
@@becjed1701 theorically this skill would have some cooldown, so if you ever wanted to use it for LoD, you wouldn't be able to spam it that way, just for a specific scenario where you'd prefer to quickly burst AoE.
Feels like they really need to revert every hpal change since season 2, including the mana nerfs. They need to start from a position where it was fun to play, then nerf other things. They turned the wrong knob to tune it down at every possible juncture. Go back to a fun to play spec and make it work from there.
Even the rework was a hot mess that was only fun because it was over powered. Need to let caster paladins play classic and refocus the spec tree.
Hpal suffers from: 1. Too many modifiers attached to/and buffing the basetoolkit. So tuning is made around the potential power of those modifiers. 2. There is still no clear vision regarding the caster-variant. And with current holy light, we might see another weird melee/hardcast abomination, like: just change infusions? "infusions stack up to 3, each infusion reduces the cast time of your next cast by 33%, stacking up to 100%" or whatever. 3. The bloat.
Holy Light's infusion effect legit used to be that it's cast time was reduced in bfa so they're aware of this. I don't know why they think we want it to generate 400 holy power when pressing WoG feels like 1 tick of the average resto druid hot
@@slendeaway7730 oh wow didnt know that. I mean it's not like it's super fancy idea... I don't see the problem with this. Like make it a choice node with reduced casttime vs. Increased healing from cast. Everybody happy idk.
Personally I like the melee wings, it feels fun to throw a hammer and have it chunk up hp bars. I also used to be a huge fan of the existence of holy power, but more and more I think it might be hindering the rest of the class design. Ie Infusion used to reduce Holy Light's cast time, but now it makes it give holy power. The income of holy power is a harder variable to tune than just cooldowns on spenders. If WoG were a spender, they could make holy shock reduce it's cd or something so that it still feels like you're building and spending, but there's a much more easier tuning knob for the number of WoGs you're outputting and they could make it actually feel impactful without having to put it's power behind 45 conditional buffs.
Damn as a Holy Paladin main, I'm questioning if I even want to come back to TWW now. :(
ive been playing it the whole expansion, except s1 where i sat out. if you understand the spec deeply, and dont just switch to it from time to time, you wont have any issues. jack is one of the best healers in the world, and for whatever reason he is trying to make a very bad talent setup work. it is what is suggested, and it feels like shit to play. just play with s2 talents. the only time you should be casting anything is tyr's deliverance and hand of divinity together as one cd just like in s2. and absolutely do not use beacon of faith for any reason. use virtue. i do need to be clear, that i am not referring to raid in any way. if you want to play hpal in raid, i honestly have no idea. i dont raid
@@HeIIaAverage idk what your io is but using virtue is trolling except maybe in azure vault and rlp where it matches the damage events perfectly and even those it's questionable, unless you're talking about beta specifically in which case idk
at least on live never casting just isn't true either, taking inflo and spot healing with flash of light is extremely useful as it allows you to spend more holy power on sotr. without this you'd have to wog way more
fact is the best way to play hpal right now is a clunky mess of hot garbage hybrid melee/caster playstyle that needs to be completely reworked, such a shame it doesn't seem like it will be and we'll be stuck with this crap for at least 2 more years
@@HeIIaAverage I'd bet money that your IO is 2500 max.
@@reallyryn 3.2k last season with no issues. could have easily done two keys levels higher in most dungeons. stopped at 3.2 because thats the cutoff in my boosting discord. i primarily boost. i have no issue linking my raider io. last season i played hpal, mw, hpriest and rduid at similar scores as well, except the druid which was a very late alt, but was still around 2.5k
Xpac still has a ton of stuff going on before release, hpal will most likely be fine
Bus Shock ⚡️
You hit it on the head with Hpal. If I am out of cooldowns, someones going to die and I can't do anything about it :(
I’ve been torn between mistweaver and holy priest. Glad to see them both in A-tier. Lol
And when they drop on the tier list are you gonna reroll to something else?
@@sy-ky_buddy4603 No. Probably just play mistweaver anyway. Lol.
Good to see Holy Priest on A Tier, its a strong spec and bot to forget a very fun spec especially with Archon!
Pres has the fire breath talent(unless they got rid of it) that heals others for what you did in FB damage to 5 targets.
Yea they moved that down in the spec tree!
Historically, they've also balanced holy paladin heals around the paladin having maximum mastery contribution (e.g., you're right up everyone's ass at all times), and anything below that drastically nerfs your heal output. I loved healing on the paladin during Wrath where there wasn't this proximity to your target increases healing done mechanic, and I've hated the holy paladin mechanically ever since. Holy priest feels light-years better. If I could create some amalgamation of Holy Priest, Fury/Arms Warrior, I'd never play an alt ever again.
How do Holy Pally and Resto Shaman rank now with the reworks?
Shaman prolly A. Pally B-ish. Definitely level up if they remove summer and do something about Tyrs. Buff or remove it
Waiting for Sigma healer tierlist
Good job. Honeslty, I don't think they will do a big revamps or reworks now a few weeks from TWW release. I like how honest you are.
Still 8 weeks or more til release, lots can happen
MW Master of Hamony needs some love. It takes way too long to build up vitality to make it useful. I ran a beta dungeon and got maybe 2 good uses out of it the whole way. I feel like in normal cercumstances It should feel as powerful as Sheilens Gift at min every 1-2M and it def does not feel that way now. Also, it's a lil scary having health pools ~4-10M and having enough gcd's to fill up the party bars with that talent.
Jax plz do a short on how to fix hpal, blizz isnt cutting it
Made a vid about a month ago goin over the big stuff and they havent done much sense :(
@AutomaticJak figures thanks though ur great bro God Bless
Give us back Glimmer hpal from bfa, that shit was fun as hell
Evoked is fine. The limited range hurts a lot. Other healers think they should do most healing and have most range.
I'm having a blast with herald I'll stick to hpal I've never really been affected by tier lists. I enjoy how pallys feel now and in TWW Beta
I'll just play whatever is strongest S1 as no doubt dungeon tuning will be all over the place
They need to fix healing. 1) Tanks need to stop out healing the healer. 2) Healers need to do tank level dps. 3) Prune defensive CD, healing and leech on all classes 4) Make healing more powerful and also use more mana, so you can feel powerful and push up bars quickly if need be but at a cost so you can't do that forever.
I’m game
That would actually solve all the issues I have with healing today.
Whats wrong with outhealing the healer as a tank? Saves you cds, gcd and manas for it. If you’re talking about m+ i wouldn’t trust my healer through healing me on it, better rely on yourself than dying cos of “healer can’t heal”
As a tank tbh I don't want to rely on the healer to survive.
As someone who plays all three roles, leave tanks alone. Let them have the tools they need to survive with only a little help. Tank healing is boring and it sucks constantly depending on your healer when you’re tanking.
I absolutely love holy paladin right now, but i do agree that dont need this many choices of cooldowns. I think daybreak is bad especially because this talent has stolen baseline power from glimmer and holy shock which are two of my favorite abilities with holy paladins. If something were to be changed or deleted i would pick daybreak to change or delete and bring back that power into glimmers and holy shocks so holy pala can also do some nice damage aswell as healing
No one talking about resto druid so i guess i keep the healing pvp in tww.
Totemic Shaman sounds like EZ Mode healing
2 months before release, can we realistically expect major changes on holy paladins?
I mean, if they actually gave a fuck about the spec, yes.
Not sure but I made a video over a month back and not much happened so I figure I’ll keep posting until I drive the point home
@@AutomaticJak People trying the same with shamans since BFA and the class is still dogshit and untouched haha
Yes they will probably nerf it more.
Farseerer riptide build great in a 5 man dungeon don’t even take healing rain focus on ch and spamming riptide with p wave and ht to heal everyone
Preach it.
forever Shaman
with all this healer damage this might be the first season of m+/raiding that has ever been anything near balanced!
The issue with healers across the board is throughput only went up like 100% compared to health bars quadrupling. Meanwhile damage intake compared to health bars feels very similar to live so you are just perma behind.
Then any tank self healing is usually % health based so you are unironically competing with tanks in overall.
Yes, this can obviously simply be a "tuning" problem, but it does come off as a design philosophy since there's realistically no reason DPS/healers needed to jump up to like 5 million health in garbage heroic dungeon gear.
Shame PoM feels bad in dungeons. Kinda liking it atm in S4.
Disc being pushed into this burst window playstyle that requires the pet/forcing Shadow Covenant, Smite spam CD reduction, basically only viable on the shadow magic side of the tree for throughput is extremely disappointing. I want them to make the holy magic/shield side of the tree viable again or else what is the point of talent trees? They were supposed to give us choice, yet we are now forced into Shadow Cov pet healing window gameplay since the rework. Very annoying!
i want to play the pres evoker so bad! i did play it in season 2/3 i think..but people just are dumb and dont understand this healer..and now in season 4 i wanna play him again but i m scared bc the dungeons are so hard...
go for it man
presevoke is FINE... do not let some tier list decide what you're gonna play. My buddy who mains pres evoker is 3600 IO... you will be just fine
@@sy-ky_buddy4603 its not the list... its hard to play this class and people dont listen to me when i say to stay close : / and i try to watch guides but my english is not that good to understand it DX
I played Pres s1/2 and both seasons I kept an alt because the range and positioning requirements were too annoying to deal with. I came back to it in S4 hoping it’d be better but it’s just too aggravating. If people position right Pres is fun but in pugs it very rarely happens. I’m shelving Pres because of it.
@@Windgrace yeaa! same! I love pres evoker.. but i dont have a group for M+ or friends.. i always play with pugs
I liked the video but I wanted to say that yes, while most healers have a way to heal while doing damage, it is NOT apart of their quintessential play style and should not be seen as such.
Disc, holy pally, and mistweaver imo ARE the quintessential, do damage to heal specs. It's what they do. Every other spec has a 2 min cd for witch they get 10-15 seconds of damage to heal...
I think blessing of summer should be kept in the game and maybe even moved to the class tree as a choice node for divine toll. I like the idea of summer of rotating buffs.
In M+ atleast it’s definitely quintessential for a healer to deal as much damage as you *possibly* can.
The button bloat with hpal turned me off so much
RIP Resto shaman :D 1. Totemic: Cloudburst totem randomly reseting accumulated healing to 0 2. Totemic: Instant chain heals from place totem consuming Tidal wave ( so RIP 2 fast chain heals after place totems) 3. Totemic: Tidebringer - same problem. Instant chain heals from place totems consuming stacks of Tidebringer (so 2stacks of 50% faster chain heals RIP) 4.Totemic: Totemic recall reseting Surging totem but first Surging t. is replaced by second Surging t. so bullshit 5. Surging totem dont move now. Yes it wasn't good and it needed fix, but now it feels again as healing rain.
Love caster MW! Sad to see all high end players cry about it ... hopefully Blizz won't listen to them and keep mistweaver as great as it is! It's so nice to have one spec with range & meele option.
wow hpriest in a tier again what a surprise!
Resto shaman hasn't recieved a talent tree change since like 10.0.7 and i think it's only been iterated on twice?
Glad holy priest is doing well, I just wish that the holy hero talents weren't so incredibly boring. They both seem pretty decent... but they seem so... bland. In terms of both thematics and actual design.
have you even looked at oracle? it is the furthest thing from bland and completely changes how you play
@@billabong5366 "Changing how you play" doesn't mean its not bland. It looks thematically contradictory and very much not FUN. It looks like it changes the way you play to make the way you play less fun.
That being said, I'm truly happy that you find Oracle interesting - I'm glad you have a spec that sings for you.
Personally, I'd rank it bottom 3 in terms of hero specs in the entire game in terms of thematics and design, with archon only being a little bit higher - maybe bottom 10.
@@seluhir8820 how is Oracle 'thematically contradictory'? it literally allows you to predict what's coming.
@seluhir8820 the amount of things you can do with insight is insane, solace giving holy a external DR is awesome for the spec, Piety is a little boring but very nice for holy especially since you do a lot of overhealing. Instant cast radiances for disc after you use a premonition is going to feel way better for gameplay, in what way does oracle make priest worse to play? Archon and voidweaver look cool but are what you say "bland" they change virtually nothing about your gameplay whereas oracle gives you so much in terms of what you can provide in a dungeon especially.
@@billabong5366 genuinely not interested in trying to convince you you're wrong because that has no point. You like it and I'm happy about that.
Accept that different people will find different things interesting because to me what you described sounds extremely boring and needlessly finnicky.
I kinda don’t know how to take his list when he said he thought hpal shouldn’t do damage to heal when it’s been a thing for a few expansions now.
I said damage to healing has become homogenized. It's been around for awhile but most of the time been mid
I have played disc since atonement was birthed as a concept, and it has been my preferred method of healing since. I am all for MORE damage to healing conversions and active rotational ramping as fight damage ebbs and flows so when ever I hear dislike of the concept I become quite defensive. That being said, please don't encourage the death of holy paladin healing to damage conversions too. I think thematically holy paladin makes even more sense for the mechanic than disc as the paladin has always been a armored warrior priest in the front lines smashing and healing in lore and writing.
Hi Jak,
When you discuss Mistweaver you show your disappointment that Jade Statue still exists, and that the ‘casting’ playstyle is played.
I have never really been a healer main, but aside from dabbling in Disc Priest Mistweaver is the only healer I have ever had a genuine interest in - precisely for those abilities.
Soothing Mist has such a gorgeous animation and seeing two of them at once, one from a pretty statue and satisfying chosen angle, is half the reason I wanted to heal on a monk.
Further, standing in melee range as a healer and performing a simple 3 button Dps rotation with comparatively boring animations is not what I would ever choose to play a healer for.
Is your problem with statue that it isn’t baseline or that it exists, and is your problem with caster playstyle that it exists or it is too strong comparative to fistweaving?
Because to me the caster style *should* be the default and fistweaving an optional playstyle.
Its okay to like different things
@@AutomaticJak
Absolutely - but I was trying to ask if you thought there were problems with the current implementation of statue and the casting playstyle or if it is just fundamentally flawed.
And if you disliked statue because you have to have to dedicate talent points into it or there’s something about it that doesn’t fit.
(E.g it takes a GCD awkwardly or has a cooldown which means it isn’t up for each pack or something like that.)
I haven’t been able to play lately and I am basically trying to determine whether the casting playstyle is going to be fun in TWW
A big issue for me with Shaman is that Healing Rain is literally just Efflorescence except more annoying. It shouldnt have any CD or cast time due to how much you have to keep pressing it. Im normally against homogenization but I wish it was just a blue Efflorescence.
I think paladin's Strength of Conviction talent wouldn't feel as bad if the healing we got from consecration wasn't also AWFUL. I feel like consecration needs to have more healing. Our AoE healing is already lacking, make it a healing cooldown and buff glimmer damage accordingly? idk.
Sad about HPala.
This is why I have not been subbed for months. (Hpal main)
I feel the damage = Healing thing needs to go back to only 2 or maybe 3 healer specs, having all but like 2 healer specs be that way feels bad and imo lowers the allure that Disc has
100%
I'm not sure if anybody said it but I don't know what happened to caster mistweaver that they decided they wanted to turn it into a disc priest ramp instead of keeping its good ol throughput playstyle.
And this is what I feel people are tired of the ramp playstyle not casting in general. But there is a lot of the mistweavers out there that hate on casting too much there are too many dedicated to it that they'd fight you to the death about it. So they won't get rid of it ever. But they need to find a better way of making them less separate and more fluid and smooth.
Make two specs, then they can make both actually viable by giving them tools
Was gone after Season 1 and started again at the end of Season 3 - and bc i love the Fantrasy of Paladins i switch from Resto Shaman to Paladin, even i knew Pala is hard to play i knew he was good. Then after i got somewhat comftable with him i saw that he was nerfed hardy in prev season. Tough i was able to get to over 2k Rating and i still felt good.
Then i switched to Holy Priest and Resto Shaman for some variety and i started FEELING how low tunes Hpalas are. Hpal are massiv behind. And i just cant get why Blizzard is not fixing that...
Fell so sad.
Only thing I don't like about druid is how fluid form is just more button bloat on a class that already struggles for keybinds. Flourish being a choice node with photosynthesis also kinda sucks especially now that it's been nerfed by 50% and is only a 10% increase in HoT tick speed for some reason so it feels like it's a capstone node that is worth taking but still doesn't feel good to take either choice. Hoping for more tuning changes in the 2 months before release and maybe reverting the photosynthesis nerf.
If you don't like fluid form, you can just not play catweaving, you know?
Completely disagree on the comment about dmg to heal thing regarding holy paladin. Of all the healers paladin and monk should be the only ones with it. I don’t know why you hate Paladin so much but a holy warrior fits that playstyle more than what they’ve done to all other healers. In fact holy Paladin needs more abilities that does both dmg and heal at the same time.
Seeing Disc listed as B tier was a very sobering moment. I don't Holy.
even right now it's worse than holy, for both keys and raid.
Yay Holy Paladins! We’re back and better than ever!
Who else can’t wait for TWW to launch?
***Nerf stick enters chat***
Marvel reference lets go
What if they made paladins heal and gain mana like Uther in HoTS. Deal damage, gain mana, throw out heals. Full contribution to the fight.
Shamans
Kind of funny to see how different M+ healers are ranking everything so drastically different. One doesn't put anything below B tier, others put nothing above A tier, it's all of the place... which is the worst possible sign. If they can't all agree on things being remotely in the same tier being some of the most active healers then there is definitely still more work coming in the beta.
thought about going to main Hpal as Prot sounds wfully boring in WW.. not gonna happen i guess..