Anvil Face Hardening
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- Опубліковано 13 вер 2024
- I have been assembling an anvil from several slabs of mild steel that have been kicking around the workshop. I milled a horn onto one slab and in this video I harden the billet that will be the top of the anvil. The "right" way to do this is to weld a 1/2" plate of hardened steel onto the anvil, but my experiments show that this steel will harden somewhat so I'm going to try a case hardening compound and quenching in superquench.
The hardest part of this was manipulation the 50 pound slab of red hot steel! Note: my camera makes the steel look significantly hotter than it appeared to my eye.
im a mechanic who uses an anvil once in a while to fabricate parts. as such, i have several anvils. one is extremely soft and huge and heavy from the 1700s i believe. the other one is kind of in-between (hard & soft), and the last one is extremely hard which i use for specialized work on it but not to forge anything on it because it will affect production of certain components. otst, my first anvil produced higher quality results if used correctly. that stuff of test-peening your hammer on it might be good for some applications i belive, but overall, a soft face anvil will produce its desired effects according to ones expertise and purpose. generally speaking, this is a great research project applied to an experimental piece of structural steel. any how, the experiment here with these chemicals is excellent entertainment for the technical inclined. thanks for the video and your time
That quenching noise was unsettling lol.
I just tested the anvil top with the ball bearing drop test. A 1/2" ball bearing dropped from 10" rebounds to a touch over 5" which is railroad rail hardness. The same steel, un-hardened, bounces back to about 2.5". So this was all definitively worth it!
That there is a bodacious project you took on all by yourself, Bravo Jake.
From the sound when you put it on the bench, I can tell it's hardened. That's the right way to quench. Thanks fo the video.
Where are you mate exellent work and video thanks 😊
That quenchant was amazing! I thought for sure that it would turn to bubbles, but there were hardly any!
HOLY SMOKES!what a project...my compliments
You have answered a question I have been trying to find the answer to. Tha k you..I'm on a similar quest rn myself and will be trying your method as I just saw your comment as I have no idea what the 1 1/2 inch plate I haves harness is. 1/2 ball bearing bounces roughly 2 inches
That sounds like mild-steel. I wouldn't bother with the the case-hardening compound, just use the super-quench.
you have a pretty interesting foundry rig man!!!! I like it!!!!
Very interesting on a large scale. it looks like nailed it. Good work!
Jake if you need some AR Plate welded onto the anvil i can do that. We have plenty of scraps big enough at the shop and I can stick weld it fully around so it won't crack or break off. Just let me know. Located in w/mass.
Ohhhh , man, your back... it hurts, right?
I think that the brine was in verry small quantity , since it was so hot at the end of quenching. And a plastic container is a bad ideea.
We all learned something . Thank you!
Congrats on a job well done. Your planning and testing before the actual job is admirable. It would be interesting to know how much the water increased in temperature, other than risking your finger!
If it's mild steel it will have a low carbon content. High carbon steels like 1050 or above, 1080 or 1095 or tool steels, will work. The metal needs to be heated to a bright yellow approx 1755 degrees and has become non magnetic. Quench depends on the type of steel, 1095 is quenched in heated oil where as A2 is air quenched. Case hardening is a surface treatment and is easily worn off. Quench should not be done in a plastic container because they melt. A leather apron or some other thermal barrier should be used. Jeans will simply evaporate comming into metal that hot. Your file test did sound to impressive. If you had put some effort I'm pretty sure break through the surface back to mild steel.
That sketchy stacked concrete block wall scares me. I kept waiting for the kool-aid man to burst through.
OH YEAH!!!
The curve in it actually makes it stronger. A brick wall with mortar is stronger when curved, too.
Holy shit don't let it beat you
Very cool. Hopefully it's going to work out in the end.
This quenching sound was worse than the consequences of turkish kebab with chilli sauce XD
Turkish kebab with chilli sauce is excellent!
A set of pneumatic tires on a portable melt furnace? Come on Jake. We want you around for a little while longer. Remember "OK, go with throttle up".
Well, TBH the tires are long gone, but they were never really a problem as I've been careful with my crucibles and never had one break. Also any spillage out the bottom vent of the furnace is channeled well away from them. I should have a new vid of the mods up sometime soon now that I have the thing working well on waste oil.
my name is manju in Indian country .I am working at black smith in my jonratio my village I had a one think anival facc very hardness which ingredients use
I had no idea you could do that with mild steel. Nice result!
+Adirondack Wilderness Co Mild steel will harden a little, especially with superquech. The CherryRed may or may not have helped. We shall see!
How did it turn out?
Timothy Hall It came out well! They'll be another vid in a couple of weeks but a 1/2" steel ball bearing rebound about 5" when dropped from 10" and that railroad track hardness. Here's a pic: instagram.com/p/BIOFhaegcIe/
Awesome video. Not glass hard but deft not soft either. Should be great for a tool
My blacksmith daughter tried it out a couple of weeks ago and proclaimed it a good anvil with a nice rebound.
case hardening is to around 0.3 mm i cant see this working , it hardly works on mild steel drifts at 6 mm round.
Yeah, I think most of the improvement in hardness came from the super-quench rather that the Cherry Red.
thats why he uses chemicals that allows the carbon to penetrate deeper. look upp calcium carbonate :)
I dunno sounded like the chili really kicked in at 16:00
Well, afaik CCDs will pick up infrared, too...
Nice job question if you weld it around the edge aren't you making a spring effect??
Lots of work good project
I think so, but that may be a good thing for an anvil. It came out having a nice rebound, it's a pleasure to use.
Not true. Most anvils were not hardened faced until the industrial revolution. The reason for hardening then came from inexperienced worker missing the work and hitting and denting the anvil. Softer anvils are better because the face will dent instead of chipping sending shrapnel out and dangerous speeds. and soft faced anvils are easily repaired.
well said. and is true. im a mechanic who uses an anvil once in a while to fabricate parts. as such, i have several anvils. one is extremely soft and huge and heavy from the 1700s i believe. the other one is kind of in-between (hard & soft), and the last one is extremely hard which i use for specialized work on it but not to forge anything on it because it will affect production of certain components. otst, my first anvil produced higher quality results if used correctly. that stuff of peening your hammer on it might be good for some applications i belive, but overall, a soft face anvil will produce its desired effects according to ones expertise and purpose. generally speaking, this is a great research project applied to an experimental piece of structural steel. any how, the experiment here with these chemicals is excellent entertainment for the technical inclined. thanks for your time
Dude throw some of that rock salt on the snow. You got a death wish?
Walking on slippery surfaces is a great core exercise!
not that I know a single thing about hardening steel, but I was watching a vid last night and they were hardening a whole anvil by heating it in a campfire fire until it was non magnetic.... So, I Googled heating steel until it is non magnetic and indeed it becomes non magnetic. He quenched his anvil in a lake, then removed it and repeated. AFAIK all he did was heat it and quench it a couple of times and added nothing however it was a one piece forged anvil, age circa 200 years old.
This should be titled: How NOT to make an Anvil Face Hardening". Good thing you didn't get burned. Take care Jake.
15:50 - weirdest noise ever. :D
It's the sound of souls escaping from the hot steel
It's the souls escaping from the hot steel
Just by the sound of the file its sounds like its hard and not cutting. Just skating across the surface. It must have worked. I will be trying super quench on the next tools I make.
You went through the trouble of hardening the face only to loose the hardness when you weld it all together. Not sure you even hardened it much at all either. Great effort and research but maybe not the best plan.
At 260lbs the anvil never got hot enough to temper even a little bit after welding. To reiterate what is in the comments below: 1) The Cherry Red probably added very little to the hardening of the surface and was probably a wasted step. 2) The Super Quench did however harden the steel significantly 3) I don't know what kind of steel this was, but a ball bearing drop test shows that it is now about the hardness of a railroad rail and that is significantly harder than it was before heat treating. 4) been using the anvil for a couple of years now and it works great!
Well planned out ..
Thanks! I did multiple dry runs before heating up the steel, I highly recommend that!
Oh god.... Never quench in a plastic bucket. Just putting this here for anyone else who ever wants to try something like this
Why not? Worst case is you get salty water on your shoes.
@@JakevonSlatt worst case you are up to your ankles in boiling water and have flaming plastic stuck to your work or something else. It's just plain stupid. You drop your work it hits the bottom, the water floods out and there is still enough heat to start a fire with the plastic. This is especially true for larger items.
@@BrettDalton makes sense. My everyday quench bucket is a galvanized steel bucket, but I wasn’t going to buy a tub for this one project. You’ll also note I was outside in the middle of winter, that quench solution was at about 9°F when I started and ended up about 160°f when I was done.
What kind of sound was 15:55 to 16:05? ??
The surfactants and salt in the quench keep large bubbles from forming next to the steel. The youtube audio compression algorithm modifies the sound to make it a bit more . . . organic sounding than it was in reality.
How well did this hardening work out for you? I might be attempting the same thing soon.
It got to about railroad-rail hardness (a ball bearing dropped from 10" rebounds 5") and I think that was mostly the super-quench, I don't think the Cherry-Red did much. We've been using the anvil since then and it works very well .
should lay off the chili before quenching... hahha..
Seems like a over kill to me, just the heat and water would of done the trick. I wonder if thermite might work.
The issue with plain water and such a large chunk of steel is steam pockets which prevent the water from making full contact and quickly cooling the piece, the surfactant and soap help prevent that. If I had used plain water it would have just boiled with big bubbles and would not have produced the lovely screaming sound that the super-quench makes!
The only issue with this type of hardening a mild steel is penetration. The surface might be hardened but how deep is it? If you're going to use it for an anvil then it needs to be considerable and I have my doubts on how long the surface will last. How goes it thus far?
It seems to be working very well, but your are right. I do not think that the Cherry Red did much, but I do think that there was sufficient carbon content already in the steel so that the super quench had a significant effect. Ball bearing drop tests show that it's about the same hardness as a railroad rail.
I've seen a ball bearing drop on a hardened anvil face versus a railroad rail...the rail only produced about half of the rebound that the hardened face provided. I have a cheap cast iron anvil that I'm going to have to weld a hardened face onto for obvious reasons which is why I'm interested in what others have done.
horseman1968 Yep, 5" from a ten inch drop is exactly as expected for rails and is perfectly adequate for an anvil, especially when it's for hobby use. My daughter (a blacksmith) deemed it "totally usable with a nice rebound".
As long as it serves your purpose.
This is useless.....the surface is not hard....your file is cutting. The block was still 300-400 degs to cold for a hardening to happen and even of you could case hard a piece of mild steel that large , which you cant with that set up. Case hardening would be pointless anyway. Your hammer blows will only bounce off the soft material laying .00003 " under the surface and your anvil will deform anyway....which I am sure by now you have figured out.
lol go find the new video, do not doubt the power of superquench.
Yang buat menyepuh itu air apa pak...apa air sabun?🤗🤗😄😄
50l water, 5Kg salt, 1l dish soap, .5l agricultural surfactant. www.prospecthillforge.com/Superquench.php
No, this will not work. The case hardness is only a few thousandths of an inch thick. This may reduce wear in two parts in contact with each other but is useless for an anvil. Also, if you are going to weld chunks of metal together to make something that resembles an anvil, you need 100% weld simply welding the sides of the blocks together, regardless if they have been milled or not, will only result in an energy suck because of the gap. Any anvil buildup MUST be 100%welded all the way from the center to the outside edge. The only way to get a hard surface is to start with metal that has enough carbon in it to start with.
I have no idea what alloy the steel is but the super-quench definitely hardened it to the point where a 1/2" ball bearing dropped from 10" bounces back to 5", that's basically railroad rail hardness. The Cherry Red did create a surface that seems less susceptible to rust than the untreated steel, but I agree, it did not contribute to the hardness.
As for the welding, the surfaces were milled as flat as possible and the assembly clamped so that weld shrinkage would pull them tight together. The anvil has a nice rebound. I've been using it for about two years now and it feels just as good as any "real" anvil I've used and was a hell of a lot cheaper. You can see it in use in some of my other videos.
I am glad you are happy with all you did, it is important to be satisfied. I am now retired but spent a lifetime in aerospace tooling, tooling inspection and as a certified welding inspectior. In addition to blacksmithing since 1968, and I have taught blacksmithing for at least 17 years. What I said is true regardless of being happy with the outcome. The gap is an energy suck, the shell is not thick enough to make any meaningful difference and RR track is a very poor anvil by any standard. Enjoy the hobby. I have made a few videos and have received some comments myself so I do understand how this looks. God bless and get it hot and hit it hard!
what are respi of adad in super quench show me vidioes
You could always case harden it by ... you know, case hardening it. :P
That's basically what the CherryRed does, but as I learned later the case-hardened layer is so thin it really doesn't help for anything that sustains an impact, it's only really good for creating wear resistant surfaces. It does however seem to create a layer that is more resistant to oxidation. The anvil has been stored outside with a cover for a couple of years now and the untreated horn has a few rust spot but the striking surface remains completely clear of oxidation.
Jake von Slatt , so was it worth the effort or should one just plate the surface w tool steel welded on
I'd say the heating and quenching was definitely worth the effort but the treating with Cherry Read was kind of pointless. That is assuming you have a way to easily heat a 50lbs slab of metal. If instead you own a nice big welder and don't have a foundry furnace handy, then I'd go that way.
Jake von Slatt, thank you for the reply. Good to know. I have a fork from an industrial fork lift coming. Starts at 4in thick and 6.5 in wide then kinda tapers down over about 8 ft. Figure it must be tough stuff cuz we move around 20,ooolbs on a pair of them. One I'm getting broke at the bend. User error. They rewarded it but didnt fo it properly, ie rose bud to vivid orange weld n heat n weld n heat the wrap it in alot of insulation and let kool very slowly. If you dont fo that.it breaks like cast iron looking on the inside. Figure it probably weighs 400lbs at very least , 2 men can not lift it hardly at all. Ought make a killer anvil if I can get it cut n put together
Nice! That sounds just about perfect.
Utube is filled with people telling us how to do stuff who have no idea what they're doing. Go figure.
"I've done a lot of research, and the best way is to... ". Translation: I've read some online forums...
What is the name of the powder you use
It's called "Cherry Red" but it didn't really do anything here. It's good for hardening wear surfaces but doesn't go deep enough for surfaces subject to impact. The super quench did all the work.
Should have welded some alloy steel ar400 plate on top of it instead, work hardens and is strong. 1/4 plate is all you need not 1/2 with solid backing. What they make armor out of. Cant do that now after what you did should have thought ahead ding dong. High carbon steel will crack and is not impact resistant. Better roll the hell out those corners.
It's four years later and the anvil is holding up well and works great and if you were paying attention you'd know that the anvil is mild steel that's been hardened in super-quench so there is zero chance of cracking and being a safety hazard.
@@JakevonSlatt OK Jake man I was just trying to participate no need to blow a fuse.
@@andrewhutchinson5490 Dude, you literally called me a ding dong.
@@JakevonSlatt Well where I come from that means kind of a hell of a guy.lol keep up the good work.
@@andrewhutchinson5490 Well my bad then!
You look like a guy that can get anything accomplished..... But like many in ly family you seem to overcomplicate things to a bit of the extreme
"Surfactant" has two of the letter "t" in its spelling and pronunciation.
I'm not the inly blacksmith who wears a fedora ey and both look's like we go with a baileys hat.
15:50 quench farting massive!!!
like a harpooned whale.
You are a very dangerous worker. Several near misses caused by the jury rigged "winch". No breathing protection. Your gloves are obviously not up to the job by the way you were shaking your hands. You are also looking a severe back injury in the face. Recommend you take this down as you are a really good example of how not to work wit heavy, hot and noxious items
I've been doing this shit for half a century with no injuries requiring more than a band-aid so I think I'll just keep doing what I'm doing, thanks for commenting and be sure to subscribe!
@@JakevonSlatt I like the part where you are said to "look a back injury in the face." That alone would kill a guy.
Hey, thanks for showing me, brand new owner of an anvil, a few things!
PS I think you will long outlive the other guy, because, you are not a rash judgmental hothead.
@@davidcovington901 Hahaha! Thank you! I absolutely don't get why people bother to even make such comments!
You should have done a Brinnel Hardness test first and then after 'heat treating' to see what you achieved. You don't want it too hard or it will crack. A great and dangerous effort for something you just beat on. No safety PPE of any kind. Duh!
Buzzkill.
but but plastic facesheil...lol.
he's right bro....we DO NOT want to see you maimed....THAT is a buzzkill.