Thanks to Baby Robot Games for providing a review copy. In fact, these guys are so kind, I emailed them TWO FULL YEARS AGO, and somehow they still remembered me last week, and replied back to the exact same conversation thread. Crazy. They self-published this game which I understand is a terribly risky and brave thing for an indie developer to do, especially since they'd never published any games before, so I'm glad we even get to play this, and I hope people check it out. Store Page: store.steampowered.com/app/1671360/Ereban_Shadow_Legacy/
Discouraging takedowns except for specific circumstances is lost on a lot of stealth games, even the greatest ones. There are very few stealthgames where taking out players or all players in the map isn't the most efficient or safest option 95% of the time. Ghosting is a self-imposed or score-based challenge nearly all of the time. So this game is fascinating in that regard.
Indeed, and like it's definitely still possible here, but you have to be pretty fast, since the purple SYMULANTS can revive / repair dead ones they see, and the further you get in the game the more of those guys wander around.
Thank you, I wished I'd found more cool places in my footage to do that, but as usual with these kinds of videos, it takes more work and time than I was ready for, so I had to speed things up a bit 😅
As a huge fan of the Aragami games in spite of their flaws (different ways depending on which game you're looking at), recently bought this... and I am liking the experience thus far! Will be watching this video within the day!!! Excited to know your thoughts on it!
Now that I've finished watching the video, I'm even more excited to push through the game even more so now than from my first hour! Kudos for being one of the all-time best UA-cam creators out there when it comes to stealth games!!!
Thanks so much Psycho, it's always cool to see you around. Ereban was a game that just hit so good for me, personally, I love the vibe of having shadow powers (or fog powers) in games so I was already on board, and it's the kind of game that to me just feels really quick and easy to do another playthrough of.
Great vid. Great opportunity to have the devs reach out pre-release as well. I hope the game does well for them. I had some concerns after the demo, but that (mostly) didn’t have anything to do with the game’s core assumptions-it was moreso that I thought they had not chosen a very flattering section of the game to showcase. Set in a level that was very large and weirdly sparse, and a player character that (at that point) was largely bereft of any tools and abilities that may have helped to spice things up. However, I held out hope based on what I’d seen in the trailers, and it looks like that hope was justified. I’m definitely really eager to give this a go. Your insight is always appreciated, and I hope more devs will look your way regarding game reviews.
Thank you for the kindness and support, as always. I do think that demo area is probably the least interesting part of the game, yeah. 😅 On the bright side I suppose it means if someone _does_ like it, then they'll probably also like the rest, since the rest is generally a lot cooler.
I was looking forward to this game for a while now, im glad you've shined a much deserved spotlight on it, sadly not able to play it as I do not have a PC, i know they're independent and even self published, so im not holding my hopes up for a console release. But IF that does happen, you better believe I'll be there.
Thanks QPint. ^_^ That's pretty much what I was trying to do, just bring this to people's attention who would enjoy it but might have missed it otherwise.
It’s simple. I’m here for the ASMR content. And getting stealth related content is a bonus. Joking aside, I’m excited about this. There was a stealth game that involved a Goblin called Styx. Wanna hear your thoughts on it ;)
I've played Styx 1 and 2 a little bit, yeah. Never actually stuck with either one to the end but they were really cool, their levels are _crazy_ massive and expansive, I want to revisit them sometime since I play on PC now, and it'd be more comfortable for me to play them than it was back on PS4.
@@LeoKRogue my suggestion is a retrospective on stealth games like these and Dishonored (which I think you have done already?) it be great though. Plus more ASMR content for me so it is a win-win XD
A PC exclusive, hmm.... It seems that for once I am in the right platform! Thanks for pointing out this game. I've discovered a lot of interesting games in your channel, as well as positive mindsets that help enjoy the games more, so thanks again and I'll go and wishlist Ereban: Shadow Legacy in my Steam account right away!😁
Ereban looks really cool! Seems like a game that at once loves its genre and the Legacy contained within it, while also not being afraid to challenge conventions, such as with the lack of any meaningful reward for killing. Been waiting for as game that lets me weaponize shadow magic like this. I may check it out!
One of the reasons I love the indie space is that there's room to just build a game around a single key feature or fantasy and just be confident exploring it throughout, then wrapping up.
@@LeoKRogue Like you said in your video, it's 100% worth doing a ghost play through. I found if you're not focusing on either pure ghost or pure slaughter it can be a little on the easy side, but committing to an all-or-nothing makes the sandbox really shine. I also go back and forth between controller and keyboard-- no clear winner! Definitely a solid stealth game in a time with very few other new options.
They switched to self-publishing it completely on their own, so unfortunately it's only on PC for now, but fortunately it even exists at all, which means there's still hope it comes to other platforms if it does okay.
Reason why it feels kinda like Aragami is simple ik at least the community manager join their team no weather she did anything idk either way im sure she gave some insight on how they did certain stuff. Also yea speedrunning this game will be fun but im gonna do a casual playthrough first and then submit to src for the game to be added before someone else steals it. Also nice review and i thought they got a publisher to publish the game for them ik they said stuff went down with their publisher but idk didnt read up on it.
Yeah, I think I heard that Lince Works and Baby Robot are basically neighbors and they know each other pretty well, so that makes perfect sense. Definitely do a casual playthrough first, don't rush the enjoyment of a game like this. On the note of their publisher, recent articles and interviews mention they moved over to self-publishing sometime closer to launch. Not sure about the specifics around it but the game turned out pretty well, all I hope for now is that more people find out about it.
@@LeoKRogue ok well not sure if u heard the news abt lince but yea that makes sense actually remember when the game was first announced the aragami twitter account made a joke abt how Spain is a bright beautiful place meanwhile Spanish(as in Spain) game devs live to makes games abt shadows which was kinda funny. Either way I hope this game does great an is very successful for the devs
I feel the art style is at its best whenever the game world around you is actually dark, honestly. In brighter areas or in levels where it's day-time, I didn't find it too impressive, but any level that was at night or inside dark facilities, I enjoyed much more. In darkness, the way it uses color helps make stuff readable, and it still looks pretty good and moody.
@@LeoKRogue Agree! Those moments when you were inside the buildings looks great. I was coming off from the desert-like area that I played in the demo (which was set at daytime and outdoors). But they probably improved on that. Regardless, will definitely get this game!
Very nice video review! I don't agree with a bunch of things you say though, and the overall tone seems a bit more positive than I can describe my experience. Below I'll just discuss things I disliked that weren't part of your video (not to be a negative nancy, I agree with most of your positives already mentioned). The game feels too simple too often. The shadow swimming mechanic is great, and the game uses it quite well in various puzzle oriented sections (primarily utilizing vents and cargo drones to cast shadows) but to me it felt extremely underdeveloped everywhere else. The game is from top to bottom designed around contrasting light to darkness, so why does it play so little with that concept from a mechanical standpoint? Where are the bots operating light spotlights? Interactable lights over the map that open up new passageways when disabled? It all felt so surface level in its implementation and much less creative than it could have been. The part where I really disagree with you is when you state the enemy placement feels rewarding. I would say the way enemies are placed felt very arbitrary - and I don't recall a single section I got stuck on for longer than a minute. To that end I also disagree that true stealth is a requirement: almost all enemies can be effectively de-aggroed by just moving to a platform of higher elevation. The pathing on the AI will often not take them to you even if they could, making for a hilariously easy game where running past everything is a viable and perhaps even optimal strategy. This is also a consequence of how insanely expressive the shadow swimming is; enemies just cannot compete with such a ridiculous advantage given to the player. I completed the game in 182 minutes on my first playthrough, using not a single upgrade (no abilities, no skills unlocked throughout the story) - which to me was a testament to how unnecessary most of these tools feel. Ereban Shadow Legacy feels like a game that needed a bit more reflection, even for how technically impressive it is in the end. My full review is on my website if you really care: piepscave.com/#!/review/Ereban_Shadow_Legacy
I appreciate the conversation. "The game feels too simple too often." We agree on this. I indeed mention in this video that the game is on the easy side for players who are passionate about stealth, but that's also what makes it a decent introduction to the genre for players who are new to stealth but think the fantasy here is appealing to them. "To that end I also disagree that true stealth is a requirement: almost all enemies can be effectively de-aggroed by just moving to a platform of higher elevation." I point this out in the video as well, so I suppose where we disagree is in the nuance and that it doesn't require true stealth. To me, true stealth means that in order to progress smoothly, I have to remain undetected for the vast majority of the experience, which I absolutely did because there's no combat system here, meaning, there _is no alternative playstyle_ to stealth. I understand you argue that running through everything and switching elevations could be construed as that, but that's just what I consider a _recovery-mechanic,_ a means to maintain the gameplay-loop after being caught that doesn't involve resetting from checkpoint. Every stealth game has something like this. So, we definitely do disagree here, maybe not fundamentally, just on whether the game's tuning is dialed in correctly. I would be shocked if anyone could comfortably finish the game by aggroing everything and constantly switching elevations, it just doesn't seem like an efficient or sustainable strategy compared to staying unseen, especially since shadow-merge lets you move so fast there's really no reason to risk that detection. I could change my mind if I saw footage of someone doing it. If this game's recovery-mechanic is _so strong_ that it can _become_ a main playstyle, then yeah, that's a problem for sure. Even then, it just doesn't seem enjoyable to play that way so I wouldn't inflict that approach on myself anyway. I don't approach a stealth game with the intent of not engaging with it sincerely, certainly not on my first playthrough. Thank you for the comment though, and if anyone else reads this, please do check out Lars' review at the link there, it's pretty well-written and especially nice to read if you're a more experienced stealth player who wants a more serious challenge (which, this game doesn't really provide as we talked about). piepscave.com/#!/review/Ereban_Shadow_Legacy
@@LeoKRogue I agree, problem with discussions over brief comments is that a bit of nuance is always lost. My problem is how little it *matters* to aggro enemies from time to time. An example is the level I believe was called "The Silent City" (second image in the review I wrote): the map is laid out in such a way you can just run past everything and if you happen to aggro something you can just retreat to the highground. It's quite similar to Dishonored I think: the player is ridiculously overpowered in comparison to the enemies, so the optimal strategy doesn't feel like it converges to having to be stealthy all, or perhaps even most the time. Thanks for reading my review, I really appreciate that!
If you like stealth games a lot, especially ones that let you play good non-lethal / pacifist stealth, I do recommend it. I'll probably stream it sometime soon and put the VOD up on this channel after so people can see what it's like.
Would you still recommend this game to someone that is not at all into ghosting? I’m a “reaper” myself, so my pleasure from stealth games come entirely from killing every enemy I see without being spotted. How much are you penalized for going for a playstyle such as this, or is it something that’s actively discouraged by the mechanics?
It's not really discouraged or encouraged, it works just as fine going for kills and clearing space as ghosting, you just have to be a little more aggressive and faster so people don't find bodies. If you're a lethal player I would pick up Mine as your first gadget and Shadow Blind as your first power just because they give you ranged attack options and let you clean up a weird situation in case you pick the wrong moment to stab someone.
It barely penalizes it. You will lose out on one option during the end of the game (which is extremely bland anyway). The main problem would be how tedious this would be as enemies are very plentiful and pose zero to no threat to the player at any stage. You would be repeating the same chore ad nauseam.
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Thanks to Baby Robot Games for providing a review copy. In fact, these guys are so kind, I emailed them TWO FULL YEARS AGO, and somehow they still remembered me last week, and replied back to the exact same conversation thread. Crazy.
They self-published this game which I understand is a terribly risky and brave thing for an indie developer to do, especially since they'd never published any games before, so I'm glad we even get to play this, and I hope people check it out.
Store Page:
store.steampowered.com/app/1671360/Ereban_Shadow_Legacy/
They probably marked that email as super important since the leo k emailed them 🙂
That would be very cool. :P
Discouraging takedowns except for specific circumstances is lost on a lot of stealth games, even the greatest ones. There are very few stealthgames where taking out players or all players in the map isn't the most efficient or safest option 95% of the time. Ghosting is a self-imposed or score-based challenge nearly all of the time.
So this game is fascinating in that regard.
Indeed, and like it's definitely still possible here, but you have to be pretty fast, since the purple SYMULANTS can revive / repair dead ones they see, and the further you get in the game the more of those guys wander around.
Love the transition you did at 6:15
Thank you, I wished I'd found more cool places in my footage to do that, but as usual with these kinds of videos, it takes more work and time than I was ready for, so I had to speed things up a bit 😅
As a huge fan of the Aragami games in spite of their flaws (different ways depending on which game you're looking at), recently bought this... and I am liking the experience thus far! Will be watching this video within the day!!! Excited to know your thoughts on it!
Now that I've finished watching the video, I'm even more excited to push through the game even more so now than from my first hour! Kudos for being one of the all-time best UA-cam creators out there when it comes to stealth games!!!
Thanks so much Psycho, it's always cool to see you around. Ereban was a game that just hit so good for me, personally, I love the vibe of having shadow powers (or fog powers) in games so I was already on board, and it's the kind of game that to me just feels really quick and easy to do another playthrough of.
Great vid. Great opportunity to have the devs reach out pre-release as well. I hope the game does well for them.
I had some concerns after the demo, but that (mostly) didn’t have anything to do with the game’s core assumptions-it was moreso that I thought they had not chosen a very flattering section of the game to showcase. Set in a level that was very large and weirdly sparse, and a player character that (at that point) was largely bereft of any tools and abilities that may have helped to spice things up. However, I held out hope based on what I’d seen in the trailers, and it looks like that hope was justified.
I’m definitely really eager to give this a go. Your insight is always appreciated, and I hope more devs will look your way regarding game reviews.
Thank you for the kindness and support, as always. I do think that demo area is probably the least interesting part of the game, yeah. 😅
On the bright side I suppose it means if someone _does_ like it, then they'll probably also like the rest, since the rest is generally a lot cooler.
I was looking forward to this game for a while now, im glad you've shined a much deserved spotlight on it, sadly not able to play it as I do not have a PC, i know they're independent and even self published, so im not holding my hopes up for a console release.
But IF that does happen, you better believe I'll be there.
A game I likely would have overlooked if not for this video. Can't wait to play it!
Thanks QPint. ^_^
That's pretty much what I was trying to do, just bring this to people's attention who would enjoy it but might have missed it otherwise.
It’s simple. I’m here for the ASMR content. And getting stealth related content is a bonus.
Joking aside, I’m excited about this. There was a stealth game that involved a Goblin called Styx. Wanna hear your thoughts on it ;)
I've played Styx 1 and 2 a little bit, yeah. Never actually stuck with either one to the end but they were really cool, their levels are _crazy_ massive and expansive, I want to revisit them sometime since I play on PC now, and it'd be more comfortable for me to play them than it was back on PS4.
@@LeoKRogue my suggestion is a retrospective on stealth games like these and Dishonored (which I think you have done already?) it be great though. Plus more ASMR content for me so it is a win-win XD
Finally, a new proper stealth game, been waiting for something like this for a while !
A PC exclusive, hmm.... It seems that for once I am in the right platform! Thanks for pointing out this game. I've discovered a lot of interesting games in your channel, as well as positive mindsets that help enjoy the games more, so thanks again and I'll go and wishlist Ereban: Shadow Legacy in my Steam account right away!😁
Awesome, thanks for watching!
Ereban looks really cool! Seems like a game that at once loves its genre and the Legacy contained within it, while also not being afraid to challenge conventions, such as with the lack of any meaningful reward for killing. Been waiting for as game that lets me weaponize shadow magic like this. I may check it out!
One of the reasons I love the indie space is that there's room to just build a game around a single key feature or fantasy and just be confident exploring it throughout, then wrapping up.
Definitely gonna pick this up later today-- great summary and detail on the things we actually care about!
If you did end up grabbing it, I hope it's been treating you well.
@@LeoKRogue Like you said in your video, it's 100% worth doing a ghost play through. I found if you're not focusing on either pure ghost or pure slaughter it can be a little on the easy side, but committing to an all-or-nothing makes the sandbox really shine. I also go back and forth between controller and keyboard-- no clear winner! Definitely a solid stealth game in a time with very few other new options.
I was sold for a while then i got extra sold when you said theres extensive replay systems, greatest devs ever
Whenever I see a game give us those kinds of features, I immediately enjoy it a lot more.
Going to buy this in the end of the month
Oh?? What an interesting game, i didn't think there was a stealth game like this
Love the visuals. Looks very much like Gravity Rush 2.
I love ALL Leo K [Rogue] videos!!!! ❤
You should try the dishonored series, it's really fun when you're playing it stealthily
Played them all, love them all!
i favorited this not knowing it's out already 😅
Heh, done that 😅
Hope you enjoy the game if you check it out Luna.
Ohhh I was jeep my eye out for this game I'm glad it coming out I thought it got shelfed
They switched to self-publishing it completely on their own, so unfortunately it's only on PC for now, but fortunately it even exists at all, which means there's still hope it comes to other platforms if it does okay.
@@LeoKRogue been on pc for awhile so I'm all good
Reason why it feels kinda like Aragami is simple ik at least the community manager join their team no weather she did anything idk either way im sure she gave some insight on how they did certain stuff. Also yea speedrunning this game will be fun but im gonna do a casual playthrough first and then submit to src for the game to be added before someone else steals it. Also nice review and i thought they got a publisher to publish the game for them ik they said stuff went down with their publisher but idk didnt read up on it.
Yeah, I think I heard that Lince Works and Baby Robot are basically neighbors and they know each other pretty well, so that makes perfect sense. Definitely do a casual playthrough first, don't rush the enjoyment of a game like this. On the note of their publisher, recent articles and interviews mention they moved over to self-publishing sometime closer to launch. Not sure about the specifics around it but the game turned out pretty well, all I hope for now is that more people find out about it.
@@LeoKRogue ok well not sure if u heard the news abt lince but yea that makes sense actually remember when the game was first announced the aragami twitter account made a joke abt how Spain is a bright beautiful place meanwhile Spanish(as in Spain) game devs live to makes games abt shadows which was kinda funny. Either way I hope this game does great an is very successful for the devs
0:45 unexpected punch to the groin?...
Saints row style.
Looks like the bot got stabbed in the head, to me. o_o
When Mona gets an assassin gig to pay rent.
I played the demo few months ago and loved the stealth experience. However, im kinda iffy with the art style.
I feel the art style is at its best whenever the game world around you is actually dark, honestly. In brighter areas or in levels where it's day-time, I didn't find it too impressive, but any level that was at night or inside dark facilities, I enjoyed much more. In darkness, the way it uses color helps make stuff readable, and it still looks pretty good and moody.
@@LeoKRogue Agree! Those moments when you were inside the buildings looks great.
I was coming off from the desert-like area that I played in the demo (which was set at daytime and outdoors). But they probably improved on that. Regardless, will definitely get this game!
This looks fun. Wonder if I can run it on my pc
I wish the demo was still available so you could try it out.
Very nice video review! I don't agree with a bunch of things you say though, and the overall tone seems a bit more positive than I can describe my experience. Below I'll just discuss things I disliked that weren't part of your video (not to be a negative nancy, I agree with most of your positives already mentioned).
The game feels too simple too often. The shadow swimming mechanic is great, and the game uses it quite well in various puzzle oriented sections (primarily utilizing vents and cargo drones to cast shadows) but to me it felt extremely underdeveloped everywhere else. The game is from top to bottom designed around contrasting light to darkness, so why does it play so little with that concept from a mechanical standpoint? Where are the bots operating light spotlights? Interactable lights over the map that open up new passageways when disabled? It all felt so surface level in its implementation and much less creative than it could have been.
The part where I really disagree with you is when you state the enemy placement feels rewarding. I would say the way enemies are placed felt very arbitrary - and I don't recall a single section I got stuck on for longer than a minute. To that end I also disagree that true stealth is a requirement: almost all enemies can be effectively de-aggroed by just moving to a platform of higher elevation. The pathing on the AI will often not take them to you even if they could, making for a hilariously easy game where running past everything is a viable and perhaps even optimal strategy. This is also a consequence of how insanely expressive the shadow swimming is; enemies just cannot compete with such a ridiculous advantage given to the player.
I completed the game in 182 minutes on my first playthrough, using not a single upgrade (no abilities, no skills unlocked throughout the story) - which to me was a testament to how unnecessary most of these tools feel. Ereban Shadow Legacy feels like a game that needed a bit more reflection, even for how technically impressive it is in the end.
My full review is on my website if you really care: piepscave.com/#!/review/Ereban_Shadow_Legacy
I appreciate the conversation.
"The game feels too simple too often."
We agree on this. I indeed mention in this video that the game is on the easy side for players who are passionate about stealth, but that's also what makes it a decent introduction to the genre for players who are new to stealth but think the fantasy here is appealing to them.
"To that end I also disagree that true stealth is a requirement: almost all enemies can be effectively de-aggroed by just moving to a platform of higher elevation."
I point this out in the video as well, so I suppose where we disagree is in the nuance and that it doesn't require true stealth.
To me, true stealth means that in order to progress smoothly, I have to remain undetected for the vast majority of the experience, which I absolutely did because there's no combat system here, meaning, there _is no alternative playstyle_ to stealth.
I understand you argue that running through everything and switching elevations could be construed as that, but that's just what I consider a _recovery-mechanic,_ a means to maintain the gameplay-loop after being caught that doesn't involve resetting from checkpoint. Every stealth game has something like this. So, we definitely do disagree here, maybe not fundamentally, just on whether the game's tuning is dialed in correctly.
I would be shocked if anyone could comfortably finish the game by aggroing everything and constantly switching elevations, it just doesn't seem like an efficient or sustainable strategy compared to staying unseen, especially since shadow-merge lets you move so fast there's really no reason to risk that detection. I could change my mind if I saw footage of someone doing it. If this game's recovery-mechanic is _so strong_ that it can _become_ a main playstyle, then yeah, that's a problem for sure.
Even then, it just doesn't seem enjoyable to play that way so I wouldn't inflict that approach on myself anyway. I don't approach a stealth game with the intent of not engaging with it sincerely, certainly not on my first playthrough.
Thank you for the comment though, and if anyone else reads this, please do check out Lars' review at the link there, it's pretty well-written and especially nice to read if you're a more experienced stealth player who wants a more serious challenge (which, this game doesn't really provide as we talked about).
piepscave.com/#!/review/Ereban_Shadow_Legacy
@@LeoKRogue I agree, problem with discussions over brief comments is that a bit of nuance is always lost.
My problem is how little it *matters* to aggro enemies from time to time. An example is the level I believe was called "The Silent City" (second image in the review I wrote): the map is laid out in such a way you can just run past everything and if you happen to aggro something you can just retreat to the highground. It's quite similar to Dishonored I think: the player is ridiculously overpowered in comparison to the enemies, so the optimal strategy doesn't feel like it converges to having to be stealthy all, or perhaps even most the time.
Thanks for reading my review, I really appreciate that!
Do you recommend it? Cant watch the video until tonight
If you like stealth games a lot, especially ones that let you play good non-lethal / pacifist stealth, I do recommend it. I'll probably stream it sometime soon and put the VOD up on this channel after so people can see what it's like.
I low-key thought this was a new warframe update💀
It does have a bit of those vibes at times.
Please...please tell me it's on playstation
Sadly it’s PC only for now but the small indie studio says they hope that they will be able to put it out on consoles in the future
@SandmanURL ah gotch ya, it reminds me or Aragami so I'll definitely be looking out for console release
Alas, PC only yeah, I think it'd be great if they got a chance to put it elsewhere.
@LeoKRogue will wait and see ^^ there's hope :)
this looks really cool.
Nice genshin stamina bar lol
The circle is nice and readable, yeah. :P
Would you still recommend this game to someone that is not at all into ghosting? I’m a “reaper” myself, so my pleasure from stealth games come entirely from killing every enemy I see without being spotted. How much are you penalized for going for a playstyle such as this, or is it something that’s actively discouraged by the mechanics?
It's not really discouraged or encouraged, it works just as fine going for kills and clearing space as ghosting, you just have to be a little more aggressive and faster so people don't find bodies. If you're a lethal player I would pick up Mine as your first gadget and Shadow Blind as your first power just because they give you ranged attack options and let you clean up a weird situation in case you pick the wrong moment to stab someone.
It barely penalizes it. You will lose out on one option during the end of the game (which is extremely bland anyway).
The main problem would be how tedious this would be as enemies are very plentiful and pose zero to no threat to the player at any stage. You would be repeating the same chore ad nauseam.
Played this during NextFest didn't realize it dropped, definitely gonna love this. Great review also Leo.
Thanks MustacheGoat! Hope you like it for sure.