Forgotten Right-Wing Founding Father Has A Super Villain Origin Story
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- Livestreamed on August 12, 2024
David Austin Walsh, postdoctoral associate at the Yale Program for the Study of Antisemitism and college fellow at the University of Virginia, discusses his recent book Taking America Back: The Conservative Movement and the Far Right.
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David Austin Walsh then joins, diving right into the major role of one William F. Buckley in shaping American conservatism in the second half of the 20th Century, presenting himself (and all of his bigotry) as the “rational Republican.” Stepping back, Walsh explores how Buckley, the founder of the National Review, came to be the resectable staunch anti-communist and anti-labor aficionado that just happened to have close ties to full-on Neo Nazis, looking at the roles of folks like Merwin Hart, Charles Lindbergh, and Russell Maguire in shaping the more explicitly racist antisemitic strands of Buckley’s war on communism, before Barry Goldwater’s major loss in 1964 (and the rise of the Civil Rights Movement) saw him begin to push away the electoral risk of rhetorical extremism.
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Buckley's not forgotten. One of my fav quotes from him: "The role of a conservative is to stand athwart the bridge of progress shouting 'Halt!'". That cemented my decision to spend my life opposing conservatism.
That’s his definition. I never looked at it like that - more slow change, the system isn’t designed for radical change. Yet, I found that the R party only cares for business and the wealthy. They lie to the middle and working classes, distract, throw mud, create issues out of whole cloth because they simply can’t come out and tell you they exist only to protect the interests of those who put them in power. Still, it could be that Buckley attitude was what they wanted all along and they BSed me. I don’t like being lied to and I did not appreciate J6. Now, I’ll will pick up a pitchfork to oppose them, stand in front of tanks. Whatever.
Honestly it seems thats all Right Wingers in the US want to do, keep everything frozen or take us back to 1870. Everything about their ideology spews hate or selfishness or lack of empathy; "tax cuts for those who deserve it (business owners of various types usually) No helping hand from government, you should have little say in the government but we won't tell you that, fend for yourself, replace said public services with The Free Market and let it handle things and if most of you can't afford it and you can't find a way, its just mass individual failing, no such thing as systemic issues because we are the awesome USA. It ignores sooooo much data and statistics that you have to be either purposefully malicious, stupid, or buying into propaganda to believe in it at this stage.
Like an Old Man angrily protesting laptops because he thinks typewriters are superior...
@@HansMuneEnBy Honestly, I'd like a laptop with a ye olde classic typewriter design.
Something akin to a space western.
@petem.3719 conservatives are those who have already succeeded who don't believe there's any more room for others to join them. They're the people who make it to the top, then pull up the ladder so no else can.
William F. Buckley. Never has pseudo-intellectualism sounded so supremely self-confident and upper crust. He belongs in the same pantheon as Ayn Rand.
So, some sort of intellectual landfill
The same pantheon as Ayn Rand and Thomas Sowell.
He would be much like Jordan Peterson in today's landscape
You mean the same dust bin as Ayn Rand.
He was often seen sucking on a sugar lozenge because he was on a very speedy Ritalin type medication to help with his ADHD. Always moving his jaw around, he spoke the most pretentious word salad.
If y'all haven't watched the Buckley v. Baldwin debate at The Cambridge Union Society, you should.
Baldwin won that debate before Buckley said even one word. One of the best things I've ever watched.
Baldwin dog walked this man.
Baldwin had all the grace, tenacity, and authenticity that Fuckley didn't. Baldwin looked into the Massa's eyes and bit deep & hard.
Chomsky made WFB look like a complete fool.
Really good book on it too. “The Fire Is Upon Us” by Nicholas Buccola.
I'll always remember attending a lecture by Gore Vidal who visited my college in 1982 while running for the Senate and how he thoroughly dismantled Buckley's conservative arguments triggering Buckley to go on an unhinged rant. In response Vidal correctly observed Buckley was nothing more than crypto-fascist. Because at the core of ALL conservative ideology is the singular goal of preserving a status quo in which a straight white Christian male patriarchy holds a monopoly on power by using gov't to marginalize everyone else. It's simply not any more complicated than that!
YEP! i'm a 53 y.o. white man and u speak the plain truth!
Not to mention HOW this monopoly is the _only_ way to stabilize a society and improve it by using capitalism to drive social evolution.
@@Theomite? No.
Vidal was much smarter and Buckley HATED being exposed.
@@OscarLangleySoryu I wasn't endorsing, I was adding onto what the OP said about Buckley's position.
I was flipping around many years ago and WFB was debating the Dalai Llama at a Harvard symposium on religion (guessing 1984ish) but Buckley was twisting the meanings of words and the Dalai Llama says "Of course, english is your first language, if we are playing games of course you will win, but these concepts [compassion] are not that hard, if you were really trying you could understand them.
Conservatism is nothing without it’s complete disingenuousness
I cut all ties to Buckley when he had Creationist Phillip Johnson on Firing Line, having had a bad taste in my mouth, already, from the sophistry of Dinesh D'Sewer's inveterate brown nosing.
Yeah, think Dines D'Sewer, think Pat Buchanan, think Joe Sobran.
They are all word wankers who use it to support their own dirty little bigotries and, in D'Sewer's case, their need to brown nose their way into The Plantation's Big House ..., by the side door ...
As much as I do love the English Language. It is quite an easy language to deceive someone with. I had a bunch of Englishmen around as a young man. They were determined to beat their language and culture into my head. If you have ever been around an Englishman for a prolonged amount of time. You will truly know why their language can easily deceive others. They want it that way.
There's a famous debate on Vietnam between Buckley and Chomsky which is still available on You Tube and elsewhere.Chomsky undressed him,ofcourse.The "Baron of Sharon" brought his word games ,signature facial tics,and condescending preppie attitude.Chomsky brought the material facts.and superb argumentation.I was impressed at how WFB stuck to his "act",and basically imperiously refused to address the professor's argument.
The Dalai Llama nailed it.
Whenever I think of William Buckley, I think back to him pausing, watching the wheels inside his mind turning, searching for the most obscure and polysyllabic word possible that was appropriate for the situation then emoting a completely extatic sense of self satisfaction that was inordinate compared to the merits his accomplishment deserved.
In other words, a pompous ass.
Did you just describe yourself?
@douchopotamus3755 I was deliberately being satirical when I chose my words.
@@douchopotamus3755 nowhere nearly as succinctly as you've done with your user name.
@@claudermiller so, yes?
@@thehellyousay what did you say?
It really is funny how it's more about hiding your racism VS being overt about your racism when it comes to flavors of conservatism.
We know the left is pure. There is no racism among you angels.
“Liberals in the United States have been losing political debates to conservatives for a quarter century. In order to start winning again, liberals must answer two simple questions: what is conservatism, and what is wrong with it? As it happens, the answers to these questions are also simple:
Q: What is conservatism?
A: Conservatism is the domination of society by an aristocracy.
Q: What is wrong with conservatism?
A: Conservatism is incompatible with democracy, prosperity, and civilization in general. It is a destructive system of inequality and prejudice that is founded on deception and has no place in the modern world.”- “What Is Conservatism and What Is Wrong With It” by Phillip E. Agre
@@dangelo1369 " Conservatism is the domination of society by an aristocracy."
That is false -- at least it's false in the USA. Here conservatism is mostly an adherence to the classical liberal values that founded the USA. There are virtually no conservatives in leadership positions here anymore. MAGA, for example, are not conservative. They are radicals, the opposite of conservatives.
He was giving a presentation at my college, and someone from the audience yelled at him. Buckley challenged him to meet outside in the back later on.
The next day, the student wrote a letter to the college newspaper saying he waited for him and he never showed up.
The 60s, you got to love it.
Why does it not surprise me that Buckley would miss his appointment with your classmate? Instead of challenging him to a fight, I would have invited him to meet me on the platform to reasonably discuss his questions one by one after the session. The challenge, and his not showing up, would go to show that Buckley knew he couldn’t back up his sophistry. In short, he exposed himself.
@thomash.schwed3662 It's Buckley's floor. I think he gave an appropriate response, and the audience felt awkward about the rudeness. It was nice of Buckley to come to speak at a campus known for its radicalism.
M. Stanton Evans of NR and a pal of Buckley once gave a talk at Penn when I was a student. Afterwards he met informally with us and I asked him how the country was going to change now that Reagan had been elected.
After several glasses of Chateau de Screw-top he was quite lubricated mentally, and told us the race problem in the United States would be solved by sending Black people back to Africa, and that poverty could be solved by seeing that the mines had full employment.
I never trusted any Conservative since then. In Vino Veritas
The Vidal-Buckley debates are legendary, but I still go back and listen to his debate with James Baldwin at Cambridge. Baldwin won by a landslide.
That was fascinating. A classic.
Baldwin smoked him.
Can't understand wanting to take Buckley's position.
Brave of him really 🤔
What an ironic twist of history that Cambridge, one of the intellectual seats of an empire that formerly monopolized the Atlantic slave trade would later welcome Baldwin, whose heritage was affected so profoundly by that legacy, so warmly, and give such a child reception to Buckley, who came representing the legacy England disavowed. That’s not supposed to be understood normatively. I just think the irony of the situation is too much to overlook without commenting.
@@leegilchrist4117
Chilled* ?
@@bobkoroua *cold
I don't know why we don't teach the truth in schools. EVERYTHING we've done to make progress in America over 250 years has been opposed by the conservatives. And every one of these things was later praised and heralded by those same conservatives as an "inherent virtue and traditional American value".
Grifting
Obstruction
Projection
🤷
This reminds of how the church takes credit for laws and ethics fought amd struggled for by people usually against that church
Too many organizations and businesses who fear that a critically thinking populace would soon cut into their profits.
I've been singing this song for 50 years. NOT conservatives = REACTIONARIES
[This message was deleted at the request of a moderator or administrator.]
I’m 79 and as I remember there were a lot of people that tore Buckley up, James Baldwin, Germane Greer, Mailer, and many more. Buckley and Pat Buchanan were the great idea guys of the right. Give me break
I read one of Buckley's book on sailing, and how he outfitted an older boat for a long sailing venture.
What surprised me is how he proudly wrote about hiring businesses to work on the boat, and then refuse to pay them if he thought the bill was too high. That pretty much told me all I need to know about his brand of conservatism. He's not supportive of the government being austere, rather it's about people like him being too cheap to pay his or her bills, and a crook willing to screw over "the little guy" while he achieves his or her goals.
That sounds remarkably like a certain convicted felon who ran for high office three times. The story goes that, in his days running the family business, he would hire minority contractors to construct his buildings and, after the work was done, refuse to pay those same workers their wages. Now, if I could just remember his name; I know I’ve heard it countless times over the decades. Wait a moment. That’s right! I’m thinking of Donald John Trump, who even now is pulling every dirty trick in the book to avoid going to prison.
Trump is living proof that Buckley is anything but “forgotten” in Rightist circles.
It really is disturbing how many RWers have Bond villian origin stories.
It really puts into perspective how bad of intentions drive whatever political ideology passes for conservatism in the US.
@@dominicfucinari1942 agreed it is increasingly difficult to not just automatically dislike any conservative I come across due to the last decade plus and the constant lies. Though I have saved quite a few people from MAGA I just can't give many of them the benefit of the doubt in debates because of their history with misinformation.
Steve Bannon literally just wanted to write mid political action thriller scripts.
I would've been fine with a few 5.7 on IMDB movies if we could not have a fascist Svengali.
Buckley married a very distant cousin of mine from another branch of the family. I'm still ashamed our genes could have gone there.
Buckley was.... straight??
@@bluequiltedness It wouldn't surprise me if he went into a mixed-orientation marriage, given the theological climate of his time.
@@bluequiltedness ikr
A lavender marriage 🪻🪻🪻
Buckley wasn’t a WASP technically speaking, but his creepy superciliousness made him an honorary member.
Opus Dei definitely consider themselves honorary WASPs. Fundies of all flavors unite to hate human rights. It’s sick.
His unctuous theatricality was a cover for his lack of intellectual authority. He PLAYED an intellectual on TV, like Jordan Peterson.
I am old enough to remember Buckley debates on tv. He was freaking weird.
Same here! Buckley would have on people like John Kenneth Galbraith and a very young Cornel West.
Yes Buckley was the first of the very weird spectrum the right is known for.
Yep, he was fond of puffing up and threatening to punch his opponent in the nose.
@@mikeoveli1028Father Cofflin or Robert Welch or heck read Martin Luther
Julius Evola was also incredibly weird.
Bill O'Reilly modeled his career after Buckley. That's all I need to know that Buckley was a rotten scoundrel.
O'Reilly is a low brow hack. Buckley wasn't like that. He had outstanding guests on his show like John Kenneth Galbraith.
O’Reilly tries to give average man twist to his image.
@@janel.8921 might be the case today in his irrelevant post Fox News era, but 25-30 years ago, he was all over that upper crust society high academic image.
No, Bill O'Reilly is nothing like Buckley -- WFB was a monster, but he was a smart monster, Bill-O is a monster for sure, but he's quite a few steps below Buckley in intellect.
@@Raptorman0909 I'm just speaking about what he tried. What he actually accomplished... Other than going to Harvard? Is another story. I'm just repeating the man from what he said about loving the style of WFB back in his ABC, Fox News days. Argue with him if you don't think he succeeded.
“Stop calling me a crypto Nazi” no sir I will not
"Okay, then regular Nazi."
"On second thought, go back to calling me 'crypto-Nazi'."
"No, regular Nazi."
@@Theomiteshampoo bottles watching this imaginary argument play out
Under the Spanish dictator Franco, thousands of gays, including teenagers, were imprisoned, tortured or raped under laws that deemed gays as a "social danger".
William F Buckley was completely enamored of the Catholic, Nazis-supporting Franco, saying that he was "not an oppressive dictator" but only as "oppressive as necessary to maintain total power".
Franco seized power in a military coup and a civil war in which around 400,000 people were killed, including mass executions of people deemed to have the "wrong values", such as believing in democracy, or women's right to vote. It was the kind of civil war for which many right-wing GOP politicians and pundits now seem to pine, in America.
When William F Buckley died, the supposedly liberal New York Times fawned over Buckley's "polysyllabic exuberance" and "perspicacious mind".
The blood debt represented by this kind of decadence has not even begun to be satisfied.
I know he spoke Spanish but now I realize he probably used the Castilian lisp, pronouncing z's and.soft c's like th.
SOURCE ?
Is it bad when whites and straights are murdered or just the privileged gays,blacks,and brown people?
Chomsky destroyed Buckley in their debates.
Which stands to reason because, with exception, most of Chomsky's policy platform was developed in the interest of healing the labor class, and Buckley built his policy platform around preying on laborers.
Yeah I just mentioned that too🎉
I hadn’t looked into Buckley history, before this, but it all makes sense, now. I agree, he didn’t look too great when he had chomsky on.
Chomsky was a linguist who specialized in twisting words. He was also a bad person.
@@krishadyn5211 Chomsky is the greatest American intellectual. He won the Noble Prize in Linguistics (he revolutionized the Field) but more importantly he helped awaken 3 generations to the truth about the CIA and their dastardly post WWll deeds. He was as great an American as there has ever been. And he repeatedly kicked William F Buckley's ass in PBS debates .
Don't forget that Buckley's brother, James, was a NY Senator for one term until Moynihan defeated him in 1976. Both were deeply despised in my household.
Moynihan is the ONE VOTE I would take back. What a mistake. Bad as he was, I think JB was less useless.
Moynihan has a fitting memorial - the white elephant Amtrak depot opposite Penn Staton is named after him.
And James won running on the _Conservative Party_ ticket.
someone I knew once said
“Buckley is eternally a sophomore at Yale”
Buckley's accent was an exaggerated mid-Atlantic accent, with lots of British affectations and learned-sounding anachronisms -- but the character from Gilligan's Island, Thurston Howell, was doing 'Locust Valley Lockjaw' -- an upper-class accent from Oyster Bay -- an enclave for the super-rich on Long Island.
I would not think William F Buckley as " Forgotten" in Conservative circles.
Well, he certainly has much less clout than he did in my youth 50 years ago. His decline began when he was not fully on board with the 2nd USA Gulf War and the Neo Con infiltration of the GOP.
Gore Vidal made this crypto-fascist so mad during that debate.
And he clenched his jaw like Kate Hepburn.
Yes, well worth a watch!
Because Vidal was clearly smarter and Buckley hated that.
Glad you made this comment.
Yes, I saw that debate, Buckley is surprisingly light weight intellectually. As he showed in that debate he is just another fascist thug.
George Will gave him credit for mostly inventing the idea of the urbane conservative Catholic intellectual, so it did not look like Birchers and KKK quite so much.
and yet what is the evolution of that: the psychopath who runs Heritage Foundation who just directly threatened half of the population!
Geo. Will is another faux "thinking" right winger. Both used pretentious, hollow rhetoric to pretend they could really think!
Or Maritain.
Buckley was adamant against the Birchers. He had a true intellectual basis for conservatism. That’s what makes him a true conservative and not a right winger like GOP leaders today
Whenever I feel sad, I watch Chomsky calmly dismantle every sentence Buckley throws at him.
Buckley was 1980s Joe Rogan
Buckley was more Kissinger-esque.
Very much in favor of using the CIA to topple foreign governments, for example.
Red Skelton had a character who said: “You jest don’t look right to me boy! Ya jest don’t look right to me
!” Sums up my impression of this guy.
Kudos to the Majority Report,
Absolutely outstanding presentation on Aug12,2024 featuring David Austin Walsh, "Taking America Back".
This gentleman is a scholar on the origins of the Conservative Movement. Walsh highlights the names and nuances of the Right Wing development.
Walsh presents all the relevant Receipts. Will definitely read his book.
That Buckley adopted or exaggerated the imaginary film accent, the mid-Atlantic accent, makes his attack on James Baldwin's accent (as an affectation) during their famous debate even more slimy: "Mr. Baldwin [...] didn’t in writing that book speak with the British accents he used exclusively tonight..."
And displays Buckley's ignorance at the time. If he had ever attended any number of black churches, or taken time to know and not presume on Baldwin's upbringing, Buckley might have understood that James's oratory style was fashioned as a young man at the church pulpit in Harlem when he had aspired to be a preacher and by his grammar teachers in school.
buckley was a fascist, not a conservative. accusing someone of exactly what he's doing is de rigueur for fascists.
@@thehellyousaythere’s not a whole lot of space between those two descriptors.
`Except that the New England Brahmin accent is quite authentic for the same reason any other minority ethnic accent is authentic. Buckley may not have had it as a child, he certainly developed it during his school years, like so many do. You can legitimately argue that's affectation, but then that applies to everything our minds come up with while schooling. What any of us heard from Hollywood after the 50s is much more likely the affectation.
This likely DOESN'T apply to Baldwin, whose early childhood likely more was formative to his lifelong vocal patterns (more immersive culture, etc.)
@@ticthakit is important to note that buckley’s up bringing was unique. I am quoting from his wikipedia “By age seven, the family had moved to England and he received his first formal English-language training at a day school in London; due to the family's movement, his first and second languages were Spanish and French.” Also later in his adolescence he lived in up state new York. Keep in mind the first English he would have heard was his parents. His father hailing from Texas and his mother from new Orleans. I am no student of accents but I could see how his could end up seeming unnatural and unique
Even rush Limbaugh did that impression whenever he wanted to act snobby and ironically he loved Buckley. But i didnt realize the impression until after i saw those pbs debates on youtube. Chomsky destoying buckley was my favorite.
Chomsky made a fool out of him. It was like Ali fighting Bart Simpson.
I'll never forget watching Buckley debating Chomsky and Buckley saying he wanted to punch Chomsky in the face. LOL.....Guy got owned so much.
Think you’re mixing Chomsky and Gore Vidal
ahh, that most logical and reasoned of arguments, the fist to the face. it's how the debate about the geocentric vs the heliocentric model of the solar system was finally decided, for example ...
@@HkFinn83 no, he's not. buckley got mad at everyone who owned him publicly.
@@thehellyousay not true.
@thehellyousay he said it to both Buckley and Chomsky but as a joke to Chomsky as a refference to the vidal debate.
William S Buckley reminded me of a character from the Dobie Gillis show. His name was Chatsworth Osborne junior, an obnoxious rich boy.
Buckley was ashamed of his family's deep south Texas-Louisiana origins, so adopted his Stamford CT home and a mid atlantic accent.
I met Arthur Jensen. He was a neighbor after he retired. He held that his writings were misunderstood and misused. To start I have never read his works or listened to his lectures.
I WAS aware he had a reputation for intellectualized racist theories. So I asked him what he thought of Hitler. He said he was crazy. I asked him what he thought of Freud. He thought he was also crazy. Did not like him.
So I asked him what his research was about and why. He said that what he tried to get across was that IQ tests are based on a dominant culture. Like in this country they were based at least back "then" on the White dominant cultural norms.
I actually remember a question when I was a kid. "What is a bon bon?" and it listed a candy, and ice cream and a couple of other choices. So he said that Black people were restricted in access to White culture by Whites and to test Black people for intelligence using items and experiences etc they did not have access to was unfair, and did not allow a person to reflect their actual intelligence. For an example is a White urbanite is NOT going to pass an intelligence test well with wilderness value set as a measure of their intelligence. Nor would they do well in another country's intelligence test that have different lifestyles, needs, accesses. A Black person forced into a restricted neighborhood and experiences is not going to do well when tested regarding life, social elitist values and experience by people who not only go and do what they choose but can't fathom the impact of restricting someone from opportunities and exposure to the same things.
He was upset that it was run with by racists BUT he was much much older and I don't know if he changed his views or if that's what he originally meant.
It's more or less the opposite of what he argued between the mid-1960s and the mid-1990s.
Admittedly, it’s been a long time since I read anything of his but it sounds like he had some old age repentance for the sins of the younger man.
This is a Buckley quote from the spring of 1964 on The Beatles, If this doesn't show how out of touch and how wrong he was about certain things nothing does.
"The Beatles are not merely awful. I would consider it sacrilegious to say anything less that that they are god-awful. They are so unbelievably horrible, so appallingly unmusical, so dogmatically insensitive to the magic of the art, that they qualify as the crowned heads of anti-music".
Considering The Beatles are still the most successful band in music history, this just gives me giggles at how wrong he was.
They were the most successful, commercially, but I don't think that was the standard Buckley was using.
@@GH-oi2jf Lennon McCartney proved to be just as viable a songwriting team as the great Broadway songwriters like Rodgers and Hart, or George and Ira Gershwin
He would have preferred Kid Rock and Ted Nugent
@@GH-oi2jf Odd...when business success was one of his highest standards.
I think he sounds like Charles from M*A*S*H. Similar personality, too, but Charles had some redeeming moments that I can't see Buckley having.
Winchester was at his core, a very decent human being. Sure he could be a snob but other than that, he was a mensch. Buckley was just a fascist douchebag.
Charles took some Korean musicians under his wing, teaching them classical music. He is devastated when they are killed.
He is horrified when his sister marries a Jew.
@@janel.8921Italian...
@@tomservo56954 It’s been a while since I’ve seen that episode. An Italian marrying a member of an old WASP family would be shocking to someone like Charles.
Do you remember the party the MASH arranged for their relatives back in the States. The Winchesters and O’Reilly families had a fun dancing together, according to a letter.
@@janel.8921that's because for a long time Italians weren't seen as "White"
Never was a man quite so full of himself as WFB.
Always love watching Vidal and Chomsky get under Buckley's skin.
Buckley was a drama queen, in love with himself.
Buckley was weasley
To say nothing of smarmy.
Oily and shady
Buckley was a right wing Catholic. As a Catholic back in the day many Catholics (as with Hitler in Germany) they blamed Jews for Christ being crucified and although he didn't voice it... they also thought you could only be saved if you were a Catholic (what I was taught in the 60's indirectly). Most Catholics are pretty liberal (note they have one of the highest divorce rates) yet the leadership tends to be very conservative and nostalgic for the good old days when the church and national government were almost one and the same.
Gore Vidal smoked that fake intellectual like a cheap cigar; Buckley was ultimately an empty suit.
I had the dubious privilege of seeing El Caudillo Francisco Franco in the flesh in Coruña in the early 60s. Franco was one of the "palatable fascists", "Our SOB" of the moment - during the Cold War he opened Spain to US military bases. Franco was indeed an anti-Semite in the grand tradition of Spanish Catholicism, but he had not bowed to Hitler, as had Mussolini, in the "final solution" round-up of Jews. I still have a children's school book of the time which reads just like the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Franco was a fine model for right-wing Catholics trying to pass off as Anglo-Saxon North American aristocrats.
One memorable example of just how farblondjet Buckley was on American culture in general was when he had guest musical icon Dr Billy Taylor try to answer the question, "Why is Jazz Neglected?" (I guess he only invited him because he had a "Dr." preceding his name). At one point, Buckley says that for him, "jazz" meant Benny Goodman.
""Our SOB" of the moment - during the Cold War he opened Spain to US military bases." Although Franco was ferociously anti-Communist, he gave only a token level of support to the Americans in Vietnam (he sent a small army medical team). During a meeting with Lyndon Johnson, he apparently told LBJ that the Americans were going to lose. Anti-Communist he may have been, he was above all else, a nationalist, which is why he had a grudging respect for Ho Chi Minh.
The guy who did hold a grudge against Franco was Stalin. Eisenhower, with an eye on Spanish uranium, gave Franco a bit of a pass and let Spain join the Atoms for Peace club and set up some US airbases there. Later on, the US accidentally dropped a few atomic bombs on Spanish territory and the local scientists were able to learn a few things to advance the secret Islero bomb project. A unique relationship....
Franco espoused "family values" and the Catholic Church while killing anyone who challenged his fascist rule and the Catholic Church looked the other way as Franco killed people.
It doesn't actually make any difference whether the President is Republican or Democrat. The genius of the American ruling class is that it has been able to make the people think that they have had something to do with the electing of presidents for 200 years when they've had absolutely nothing to say about the candidates or the policies or the way the country is run.-Gore Vidal
Genius.
Or as George Carlin put it: "It's a big club and you ain't in it".
What's your solution? Stop voting?
@@DaemonJax Get better candidates, maybe yourself, and vote them in Congress, Senate and states assemblies and as governors. Pass laws that tax away the power of the overwealthy .people who really command the country. In other way stop being a worse version of feudalism, medieval kings were under the law, not over it.
@@DaemonJax Yes and no. Just stop voting for the two major parties. They have been trading power, playing Good Cop Bad Cop, for 172 years.
Why would the DNC change if they know that voters like you will continue voting "Blue No Matter Who?"
A classic Chapo episode is where they read Ross Douthat's book excerpt about skinny dipping with Buckley
most normal conservative backstory
Great ep
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Buckley was, by his own admission, the godfather of E. Howard Hunt's children.
He had been made into a C.I.A. operative by Mr. Hunt as well.
That picture of Buckley is truly an unappealing one per say
Extremely unfuckable. 😂
Americans should stick to words they understand, your Latin comprehension is non existent, refrain from using a phrase you don't know, "per se' for instance, please look it up,?😮
Per se
It's like a wax sculpture of Rutger Hauer got left out in the sun a bit too long.
He always had his nose in the air and a sneer of disgust on his face. Back in the day they called snobs like that "gentlemen". 🧐
"Larchmont Lockjaw"
Robin Williams also played him on an SNL skit with Eddie Murphy after Michael Jackson's hair caught fire. It was hilarious
A conservative calling anything evil is ridiculous on its face.
63 yr old life long Dem here in the horror story that is Texas at present...attacks on Trans rights, abortion rights and voting rights. How I relish these types of podcasts and especially all of the wonderful and thoughtful commentary that follows in the comments. I well remember WFB as my yellow dog Dem Dad would drawl at me as a kid in the 60's, watching him on PBS "That is the only damn conservative I can stand to listen to since it is entertaining how he can make stupid sound smart!"
I watched Buckley and Chomsky in debates and Chomsky ran rings around Buckley. Buckley’s arrogance, his unsurpassed arrogance, shone through, displaying him as a highly irritating pseudo-intellectual.
I'll never forget how Buckley, when debating Noam Chomsky, argued in favour of the Nazis.
Thurston Howell and Buckley were just doing the Boston Lockjaw. But Buckley’s pattern of speech was even more eccentric
The Birchers have clearly made a comeback. They were largely indistinguishable from the modern MAGATs.
Buckley was the King of Snootiness. The rest of us boors are still trying to catch up. I don’t know why I bother sharing that with you. 😂
Excellent interview. Majority Report is one of the best UA-cam channels out here.
There is a great video of Buckley getting smoked in a debate by James Baldwin.
Just listen to that debate whenever he pronounces the word "negro". It's very disturbing.
I didn’t forget him. And neither have most conservatives. Younger people have forgotten anything older than 2005. Mostly because they don’t know it in the first place. I’m a progressive
"Younger people have forgotten anything older than 2005. Mostly because they don’t know it in the first place. I’m a progressive"
you've contradicted yourself in 3 sentences. well done. can you spot how you did it?
let me show you:
making sweeping negative generalisations about groups of "others" is not progressive.
@@thehellyousay And they could not have forgotten what they never knew.
Buckley was raised in Mexico and believe it or not, Spanish was his first language, not English.
Lily Tomlin's character Ernestine the phone company rep called him "Mr. F'buckley."
Just to clarify one historic point, the nazis were very instrumental in helping Franco win the Spanish Civil War. Francos army was in North Africa (where they committed many atrocities) and had no way of getting to Spain since the Spanish Navy refused to help him. Enter the Nazis who transported troops and equipment from Morocco to Spain. A key point early in the war that Franco’s Govt tried to whitewash in later years.
Thanks for this convo
THEY got Larry Mac Donald. Shot down a 747 airliner just to get him.
God, I remember that. I also remember someone saying that IF a member of Congress was going to go down then MacDonald was the best one to “lose.” 😂😂😂
All conservative politics is personal grievance
Lollll
1st exp with John Birch, a book called None Dare Call it a Conspiracy. William Buckley i have know for since forever.
Miss the days of Hitchens constantly putting the pressure on Buckley
I'm from Indianapolis and my dad was a Jr. High School Principal. The John Birchers started doing many of the things that the present far right does in terms of infiltrating school boards, and just the overall approach. My dad on a few occasions called them out in meetings and publicly. He would just let them hang themselves and then point it out. He had enemies... He didn't like Buckley, but respected him IF ONLY because he whacked the nutball right. And he said watch him...like a hawk.
John birches, you talking about those anti-black jackasses in the John Birch Society?
It's actually remarkable that in a little over ten years we went from rescuing society with socialist programs, to fighting a world war against fascism, to demonizing communism (understandable, it's not compatible with democracy), then demonizing socialism (the thing that saved us from the great depression and a collapsing society), then somehow moving slowly towards fascism. Now we're here, and the most powerful nation on earth, that once fought hard against fascism, is flirting with its return. We really never learn from history.
Beyond flirting. 40 percent of the country is thirsty for it.
Democracy = a system of governing based on majority rule
Communism = an economic system based on common ownership.
Not mutually exclusive or "incompatible". It's actually FAR closer to the democratic ideal than capitalism (in the workplace anyway). A company run by a ceo is much more incompatible with democracy than a company run by the workers as a group.
100 years of red scare propaganda have seriously confounded this very simple concept
America racist fighting fascist 😂😂😂😂😊
Hey YT!!!!
IF YOU'RE GOING TO DELETE MY COMMENT, FEEL FREE TO NOT NOTIFY ME WHEN OTHERS GET TO COMMENT!!!!!
Explain how communism is "'not compatible with democracy."'
Buckley advocated for a well-to-do, puritanical elitism that basically asked this question: if you're not born into privileged "old money", then how dare you aspire to be anything more than you are?
Buckley's thirty year clown show was responsible for the likes of Rush, and Alex Jones. His preppy themed talk show pre-dated Morton Downey Jr's carnival act which was all about the stark cruelty of the Reagan years. Downey was like something out of gangs of New York, the heirs of the English founders out to get everyone else. Interesting vibe to say the least, I'm glad it's fading out of existence like Anne Coulter.
Buckley was just trying to justify being a privileged rich kid and then a privileged adult with generational wealth that he did nothing to earn.
He went to my boarding school in New York. He definitely acquired the accent there.
He imitated one of his professors. There were a couple others. His brother did not talk like that.
I knew him as a child, his accent was completely affected and unnatural. As someone British and American - his accent was neither.
@@ian7379Buckley was born in 1925. You are claiming to be older enough to remember him in person and also tippy tapping away on UA-cam.
I don't think so.
@@krishadyn5211I met him numerous times in Europe during the 70s and 80s. He was a great friend of my best friend’s father. Admittedly I was an older teen when I met him last but he sure made an impression!
Had a “hippie” libertarian friend in the 70s. He was sympathetic to the John birch society and said the government.. liberals had lied about them and ruined their reputation.
My dad read National Review back in the day. I read them too. We've both gotten much better. When I was like 14 I saw a WFBjr novel and checked it out. It was... Weird. As I recall the protagonist was a self-insert James Bond sort of fellow.
Yes, with some ludicrous name like Blackwood Oakley or some bullshit. There was also a lot of space devoted to lovingly describing how fit and handsome he was.
Blackwood Oakes...
Excellent discussion, Buckley was really good at moving with the times and he did not want to be seen as an overt racist.
NEVER MISSED A SHOW!!
Not a Buckley fan but wish we still had a show like that. To his credit he let Allen Ginsberg read a long poem without interrupting
Joe Flaherty from SCTV did him best.
The Thurston Howell III accent Jim Backus used is called "Locust Valley Lockjaw". Nancy Kulp used the accent as well.
Even Ann Coulter has that lockjaw fascist speech pattern
"God and Man at Yale' made his reputation early in the l950s. He was castle Irish. When we students were pressing for coeducation in 1968, he came to campus and tried to make fun of us. We ignored him.
Good stuff, especially about Buckley as symbol of the 20th century Western right leading to what we have today.
However - since it's an important point - what he very briefly says regarding the Spanish Civil War is inaccurate. The USSR was not for the truly democratic (anarcho-syndacalist/libertarian-socialist) revolution successfully taking place there. It instead in fact joined with the fascist forces and most of so-called western liberal democracies in crushing it, including of course the US.
Buckley was a total villain and is in no small part why our country is where it is today…
You need to do a bit on d.c. Stephenson. He single handedly destroyed the KKK in Indiana.
Fun fact: Cobra Commander, the villian from G.I. Joe was literally created as a characature of William F Buckley
Funny I thought Buckley's accent was just the way people talked who went to Yale.
I here that accent and I think snob, educated in everything except work.
An educated idiot is the way my father referred to them.
😂😂😂😂😂
'cept that's mostly a fantasy
'hear', not 'here'. also, ignorance is nothing to be proud of, nor is 'work' is a higher calling ...
ps: envy always leads to resentment and contempt. unironically, such grudges are inheritable, as you've just proven.
@@mikeoveli1028 A ridiculously affected speech pattern, accompanied with weird facial contortions, sudden glaring, forehead acrobatics and eyebrow bobbing. I remember once watching firing line stoned with friends. I laughed so hard my stomach ached. He seems pretty irrelevant now. I think even ole Bill Buckley would be horrified by his intellectual, trump apologist heirs but who knows? Buckley was willing and able to rationalize all kinds of horrifying shite. Gone and, it is to be hoped, forgotten.
I thought everyone knew who Buckley was. Hardly forgotten either. He did banish said figures to the fever swamps of the far right, trying to separate the tendencies he represented from them, but that proved to be a largely unsuccessful tactic in the long run.
@ 32:12 : " There is a DEGREE of sort of a paternalistic elitism w/ Buckley" ? Your guest has a rather severe self-debilitating gift for understatement.
I had never heard of Buckley until now. This was super interesting and really shows how the foundations of the current conservative movement was founded.
I knew Buckley he was a stuck up person amd always lecturing
Buckley came as close as anyone besides Burke to boiling down conservatism to its honest irreducible purpose, the conservation of traditional power. When he uttered his famous line about standing athwart history he was saying in no uncertain terms that ideology is not a spectrum but a vector.
Buckley flexed everyday by showing his superiority in having a huge vocabulary.
Spewing flowery garbage was his gift
No, he would throw in a few Latin phrases from the standard footnote list, sometimes using them incorrectly. He was all pretend.
It give me so much pleasure to see that William F Buckley is “forgotten”
Thinking back Buckley seems like a respectable voice of conservatism. Probably suggesting what a strange time we now live in. There could be some among todays MAGA/GOP who would label him a ‘RINO’?
I did not think a 40 minute conversation about politicians in the life time of my grandparents would be so interesting