Yea ol Jimbo is one of a kind.I dont know about you, but I miss those days.That was when wrestling was fun cos they kept it all so simple.Simple story line,simple match and a good promo.They let the 3 tell the story.And by the way Happy Holidays !!!
Jim Cornette was indeed a classic! To me him and Jimmy Hart were sort of each others counterparts in their respective promotions. I always loved The Horsemen even back then. There was just something about them. LOD were AWESOME! I actually enjoyed when they went back to being heels in late '88. First they turned on Sting. Then they DESTROYED The Midnight Express and FINALLY won the belts! Then they spiked Dusty on national tv! I can still remember those times in late '88 vividly!
If you ever go on Wikipedia, there is some great stuff to read in regards to the ongoing conflict that took place between WWF(E) and JCP/WCW. It's so intersting to read about the power plays which constantly took place between the 2 companies from the early 80s up onto the demise of WCW in 2001. It's an engrossing story without a doubt! I was just on Wikipedia the other night and reading about events such as 'Black Saturday' and of course 'The Monday Night Wars'. You should really check it out!
I grew up near Charlotte. I used to pass by Ric Flair's house every day on the school bus. His daughter was in elementary school at the time and I was in Jr. High. Every now and then I'd see him waiting on the bus with her. My sister went to high school with Dustin Rhodes and Dusty would go to all his football games, get drunk and cuss like hell I hear. Where the Horsemen followed him to and beat him up in the parking lot was very close to where a friend of mine lived. That kinda scared me lol.
I usually did in fact cheer for the faces but, as I said, there was something so intriguing to me about The Horsemen. They definately had this mystique to them that very few other heel wrestlers had. The LOD were always badass, even as de facto baby faces, but when they turned on Sting and Dusty and won the tag titles, they were actually DANGEROUS again! It didn't last for very long though. The fans cheered them too much and they became de facto baby faces once again!
I agree about Pillman. Tully Blanchard, Mr. Cocky Himself said ya couldn't have the Horsemen without Tully Blanchard. As he put it: "C4 is harmless without a blasting cap but when you connect a blasting cap to just a little C4 then BOOOOM! And Tully Blanchard was the blasting cap for the IV Horsemen." Maybe he was right. I recall when they first got the Horsemen back together in the 1990s I thought they could pull it off as long as they had Flair & Arn but nope, something was definately missing.
One match that I will never forget occured at the Westside High gym in Anderson, SC, the Mulkeys' hometown and alma mater. They wrestled the Midnight Express for the NWA World's Tag Team Championship, with Ricky Morton as the special ref. Jim Cornette went through the roof when that was announced. He was good at that.
On Flair's DVD, Herd wanted Flair to drop it to Luger, but Flair wanted to drop it to Sting. Then Herd ordered him to drop it to Windham before the GAB telling him that he was fired. Herd told Flair that Dillinger was on the way to collect the World title belt. Flair told him that he better have $25,000 plus interest because that was the amount he paid as a deposit when the company changed names. Herd just told him to "fuck off" and keep the belt. That's what I heard.
All through the mid-late 1980s Crocket Promotions and then WCW was looking for their guy that could do for them what Hogan did in the WWF for Vince.Then Sting cam along and could he could have been their answer to Hogan. In the early 1990s they were trying to build WCW around Sting. I recall the CNN tower in downtown Atlanta had a huge 2-3 story Sting mural on it back in the day. But, all that went out the window when guys like Hogan, Savage, Nash & Hall came to WCW.
I've only been to two live shows ever: GAB 1984 and the second was some small time indy show at a county fair just a few years back. GAB '84 in Charlotte at the Memorial Stadium must've been a "historic night" in wrestling lore because I see so many of those matches from that night on these WWE dvds like Ric Flair vs Ricky Morton and LOD vs. the Russians chain match & some others. It was fun and that indy promotion was better than anything I've seen on Monday Night Raw or Smackdown in years.
I can't remember the exact details but do you recall when RAW left USA network and for a few years it was on a couple of different networks? In the end WWF went right back to USA where they'd always been. There was some agreement that all networks had to agree to for the TWC deal to go through and USA was one of the networks not going along with it. I've wondered if this is why TWC bought WCW to begin with because WWF shows was all USA ever had that really drew ratings that I can recall.
Boy you hit the nail on the head with that one.When Vince became more less the only game in town I said to myself wrestling as we know it was over.I never was a WWF/WWE fan nor did I care for the Monday night wars though it did make each fed push the envelope a little more, I was and always will be NWA old school. But back in those days it was just great to be a fan of any of the feds cos we had so many feds and styles to choose from.Like I said, I would get bored with the same one all the time.
Sting was the guy that lost out more than anybody there! I recall seeing a huge mural of Sting about 3-4 stories high on the Turner HQ/Omny in Atlanta around 92-93. After all those years the NWA and then WCW as you say finally found their answer to Hogan and they were pushing him hard. But as soon as Hogan, Savage etc. started pooring in Sting just kinda got brushed aside. And like you said TNA has done pretty much the same thing to guys like AJ Styles for guys like RVD & Jeff Hardy recently.
What's up again! I just wanted to comment some more on Dillion. J.J., unlike so many other managers in wrestling, NEVER came off as being cartoonish. He always came off as being very business like in his managing approach and style. And when he said his guys were going to put a hurting on some other wrestler, you just KNEW that he meant it! Again, there was nothing ever cartoonish or exaggerated about J.J. Dillion's character as a wrestling manager.
Yea thats great.Funny you should mention those two.Me and a girl I was seeing at the time went to our local arena and we had front row seats and they had the NWA there and those 2 were on that card.This was back when Tully was with Baby Doll.Anyways I forget if there match was a no DQ but your talking some 20 or 25 years ago, but anyways the thing I remember the most from that night was all the blood they had shed.And dont forget we were in the front row for that one.Thats why I liked the
I don't recall EVER remembering Windham being in the title picture around this time. He was in a mid-card feud with Pillman. Lex Luger, a month before the Bash, faced Muta in a "#1 contenders match" on the Clash of Champions. The winner would face Flair at the Bash. Luger won the match. Again, no sign of Barry Windham. Than Flair left with the belt, and all of a sudden Windham was named the "#2 contender." He was the "#8 contender" the week before. Not sure where Windham is getting his history!
Business men like the wonderful Jim Herd right? But the Crocketts were living beyond their means with all the big private jets and such. And then sold it to Turner who pretty much left the boys in his company in charge to have at it. I think the 'Rise and Fall of WCW' dvd did a pretty admirable job of detaling how it all went down. And Vince probably let the story be told because it ultimately made the Crocketts look like inept business men compared to him(which I guess they pretty much were).
Barry wasn't even in the main event before Flair left--it was Flair and Luger in the cage. I think Flair left about a week before the PPV, and Barry got in one interview at the end of WCW Saturday Night to hype himself. I remember the interview being at ringside after his squash match and Barry saying "I'm gonna walk that aisle like the Nature Boy never could!" WCW/NWA had teased Luger winning the belt for 3 years at that point, Barry was more in the hunt for the U.S. belt at that time
Your point reminds me of another clip on UA-cam where Jake the Snake Roberts is talking about how he DDT'd Hogan and people cheered. Roberts said "the fans reacted wrong!" lol. That was the early 1990s, if you think about it that was a wierd time in wrestling history: the promotions were still trying to give us the heel/face formula of old and yet the fans were getting tired of it, the promotions (especially WWE & even WCW) didn't know how to react to that for a while it seems.
Yeah, Flair DEFINATELY lived it up during his peak in the sport throughout the 80s. I had the dvd of 'Ric Flair and The Four Horsemen' and those guys really did live the gimmick out of the ring as well! I also know that alot of wrestlers have an extreme dislike for Hogan in real life so yes, he clearly wasn't the 'lovable' Hulkster that he portrayed so well during the era of 'Hulkamania'. It would most likely seem that he did indeed abuse his position of power in the WWF and later in WCW.
Dillon was the icening on the cake for the Horsemen but I'm not so sure the Horsemen would've ever been the force they were without Dillon. The Horsemen weren't just guys that the promotion stuck together they were friends and all loved the business JJ was the guy that kept the machine well oiled and running on all cylinders.He wasn't just a TV/ringside manager either, he did handle a lot of the behind the scenes business and was the final say within the group No wonder it worked so well.
Ole has said in an interview on here that he can't stand McMahon. Benoit was a terrific wrestler but The Horsemen might be very hesitant to even bring up his name now due to the terrible tragedy he was involved with. Hennig was great as well. I thought his Mr. Perfect persona was a pretty cool and interesting character. I LOVED the way he would bounce of those ropes back in the day! Very funny and yet also quite athletic too! A real shame about his untimely death as well.
I agree with ya on old school. Those guys back then made you feel that they really hated eachother and if you gave them guns or pistols someone was gonna end up dead. You don't see that now. It's like when Magnum & Tully got into it you could hear them knuckles knocking on skulls for real lol! I saw a clip on here of Magnum & Tully doing an old NWA fan fest reunion recently and they were still kinda talking shit to one another about who whooped who's ass the most in KIND OF a friendly way lol.
The Crockets also screwed Flair over in the end. Part of the agreement was Flair had to be a part of the deal and go along with it but they never told Flair that. Flair is still pissed about that and says "I would've held them up for a shitload of money had they told me." which I'm sure they knew lol. Blanchard spent some time in prison in the 1990s didn't he? I know all the attempts to reform the Horsemen without both Tully and then Arn and I still think the Horsemen died when Olie left.
You're both right actually (and both wrong), Herd hated Flair and wanted him gone, he thought Luger was the future and wanted the title on him, Flair disagreed and suggested Windham, Herd initially relented but then at the last minute changed his mind, decided for Luger, fired Flair, and demanded the title back. As champ Flair had a $25,000 deposit on the belt (plus interest), Herd refused to give Flair his money back so Flair kept the belt (as was his legal right) and went to the WWF
always will be the Freebirds.I can bring back the old school or the new ones.I even bought me a grand piano and self taught myself how to play so I could work on my wrestlers theme music.I have my own recording studio in my home so pop your tarts to that Vince, HA !!! And its a blast to do my NWA tour each week.Mon, night my birds vs the Von Erichs in Detroit in a cage and then on Tue, night be in N.Y. in a barbed wire match.I mean you can really follow your wrestlers feuds.Its a blast.
the role as the heel.There more fun.They make things happen.Its fun this game, cos 1 night we will be in Boston in a cage, the next night in Charlotte in a chain match, then the next night in Miami in a strap match and then off to Memphis for a dog collar match.The Freebirds vs the Von Erichs.You get to follow the feud.Plus the rest of the card and the feuds that are on it.And the under card as well.Then its back to Atlanta for the weekend.Vince aint the only game in town no more. I love it.
Yeah it's amazing how many of those old guys have gotten religious. Going back to what you were talking about earlier I saw Ric Flair on RAW a couple of weeks ago for just a brief appearance. I don't know if he got religious or not but it was good to see the REAL RIC FLAIR back. It was real good to see Flair back in more ways than one. Of course it's going to break your heart to know he was giving the Miz a push though lol. Cena kinda earned my respects for giving Flair his due too.
Yeah I'm pretty sure Tully Blanchard was in prison for a while. I don't know how long or exactly why but as you said he had a drug problem at one point and I ASSUME it had something to do with that. But I know he straightened out and he got real religious, even became a preacher I think and does stuff with prison ministries now. Did you know Nikita Koloff is now a preacher too? He seems like one of the nicest guys you'd ever meet also. Hard to imagine from his NWA days lol.
As a kid I had guys I liked & guys I hated like we were supposed to but as an adult I just watch and appreciate what they do without really booing or cheering a guy USUALLY. Cena may not be the best talent we've ever seen and yeah he did his crappy movies too but I think the guy really does love the business and gives 110% to the fans even if it is always the same old thing like Hogan. Cena, he is to kids today what Hogan was to my generation and he tries to be a good role model. I respect that.
Even back in the day long before Benoit did what he did he just wasn't "Horsemen material" as Arn Anderson would say I didn't think. The key to the origional Horsemen was they were "cool heels". As a kid I thought everyone hated the Horsemen till I noticed in church that those high school/college guys older than me were all die hard Horsemen fans because to a teenage guy I imagine they were cool back then. Benoit was a GREAT talent in the ring but he couldn't pull off that "cool heel" thing.
I didn't know about Vince trying to help out ECW. But yes, I know that Bischoff was determined to bring Vince and his company down, that's been very well documented. And Bischoff no doubt would've wanted WCW to be the only promotion around as well. It's a shame that due to the immense greed involved with ALL promotions that others are simply not allowed to thrive. But I ultimately think it's healthier and wiser for the wrestling business if there's more than just one single promotion around.
it will tell ya all ya need to know.You can even have battle royals as well.Im keeping my NWA dream alive through this game and its as reeal as what you see on T.V. I got a big Xmas card comin up in Atlanta where alot of issues may or may not be settled.You can create your own promos and story lines as well.I bought me a grand piano and even create wrestlers theme music.Im on a roll. What ever it is, im on it.Atlanta on Xmas and in San Angelo TX the next night Happy Holidays !!!
Yeah I come & go with wrestling myself. I'll go for years and watch it religiously every week and then go for years where I don't watch a second of it and have pretty much done that all my life at random. I quit watching about the time NWA became WCW (not for that reason though) and got back into it about the time the Monday night wars started. Watched all through out the 1990s every week and then stopped watching in 2000 when WWE was the only game in town and mainly for that reason.
I understand what you're saying about Vince and it's a very well made point. But to me Vince also had alot to do with killing off the enjoyment of wrestling in his mission to be the ONLY promotion in the country. I think when people talk about how great the sport was in the 80s alot of it has to do with the fact there were so many wrestling organizations around and how it gave fans the opportunity to view wrestling in numerous settings. And Vince took most of that away after he bought WCW.
That's fair enough and I certainly respect your opinion on Cena. And yeah, as you grow into adulthood you no longer really have those same feelings as when you were a kid with booing or cheering on a particular character in the ring. You just hope to see wrestlers put on a fun and exciting match that you can simply sit back and enjoy. And you definately realize now as an adult how much of a silly and put on soap opera wrestling truly is. But it can still be a heck of alot of fun when done right!
Yeah Sting was the orginizations top guy for quite a few years, especially when Flair left in '91. And even when Flair returned to WCW in '93 Sting was still pretty much the main attraction in the company. But when Hogan came in it was all about rebuilding Hulkamania in WCW which, like I said, just didn't work for me. To me Hulkamania was already passe by that point in time. But Bischoff was determined to restart it. But it was no longer the 80s and the decision seemed to be almost lazy to me.
Those were wierd times in the WCW lol. Jim Herd and a lot of the other brass thought Flair was over the hill and they also wanted to have their version of Hulk Hogan. They were going to try and push Luger as their Hulk Hogan and that was just a bad move, Luger just didn't have Hogan's charisma, not even close. Even McMahon found that out the hard way a few years later when he tried to do the same with Luger. Sting could've been WCW's answer to Hogan had he come along 5-10 years earlier.
Freebirds.Well that and the fact that anyone who loved Skynyrd got my vote.But Michael Hayes would cut these promos and you would hate his guts.But as a mark thats what he wanted you to do.But it did,nt matter to me because They were the only reason I got into wrestling in the 1st place.This was back when World Class Wrestling was burning hot.The old Freebird-Von Erich feud was classic.And Hayes like him or not, could cut a promo and the rest was pure wrestling magic.And it worked.
Ric Flair had the Big Gold Belt with Him when He joined WWF the first time in the early 90's , which was fine cause The New WCW Heavyweight Title was even better looking !!! The WWF Eagle Belt (Both of them) was the coolest !!!
Yeah you could always tell that Dillion was a very intelligent man in real life. He had an enormous presence in interviews as well. I agree that The Horsemen wouldn't have been quite the same without Dillion in their stable. And he lived The Horsemen lifestyle with Flair and company too. I really HATED when he came back to WCW in the 90s to be the onscreen, GM was it, to be beaten up every now and then by the NWO. This was definately NOT the J.J. that I remembered from the 80s!
I can't recall for certain when RAW was on different networks but it was while the Monday Night Wars were still going on but near the end and maybe for a little while there after. It seems that would've been like 1998 or maybe 1999 to maybe 2000-2001 or maybe a little longer. I think they were on Spike TV for a little while and also I think TBS. Nitro was on TNT wasn't it? If so it definately wasn't TNT but for a little while there RAW was on one of the Turner networks.
So true about Flair, although it's been incredibly painful for me to see the guy attempt to 'wrestle' for these past few years. I really wish he would've bowed out gracefully, even though I understand that it's largely been for financial reasons the he continues to work in the ring. But yeah, all those guy you mentioned were true professionals in the ring and the sport in general. It was all about wrestling and putting on the best show for the fans. Miz a 'movie star'? HAHAHA! NOT A CHANCE!
Fans can communicate and share their feelings thanks to the internet now. Competition makes everything better including pro wrestling but unfortunately no other promotion can claim to be a legitimate challenge to the WWE in professional wrestling. But if you look at the old territorial days the territories weren't directly competing with one another at least not for fan support. Promotions like ROH & TNA have to grow and become truely competitive with WWE for wrestling as a whole to get better.
Yea I cant argue that.But the wrestling game I have isn't a video game.I guess you could call it a table top one.I added a few grudge matches on it that wasn't in the game when I bought it.Most of the well known grudge matches were included at the time.But I added the 1st blood one.And a Taser match and a streetfight one as well. It came with a TX death match and a cage one as well as a Russian chain, Nebraska bullrope, Dog collar, and a Boot camp one as well.Later issues of the game came with
Unfortunately I gotta agree with you about competition for the WWE anytime soon. With technology being what it is an so many agreeing with us you'd think some organization like ROH or TNA or someone we haven't even heard of yet could just freaking blow up over night and become as hot as anything you've ever seen in wrestling if someone had their shit together. But I don't see that happening any time soon leaving guys like us left to watch matches from 20-30 years ago & play video games lol.
I know all about the raw deal that Flair got too. I don't remember hearing about Tull doing time though. I know that he was plannig on going back to WCW with Arn to reform The Horsemen with Flair and Ole. But then he failed a drug test and only Arn ended up coming back to WCW. Btw, do you mean when Ole originally left the group in early '87? Because I certainly don't believe they died then. There was still the Windham era to come, who most believe made up the greatest Horsemen stable ever.
that the beating he got from billy jack hayes was long overdue as Barry Windham thought he was running the company since flair and rhodes were gone or something like that.
a strap match, Libyan death match, a Sandininsta death match, a Scaffold match and also a barbed wire one to. I like the barbed wire match.But yea.I agree with you what you said.Its just a shame that we have so many disgruntled fans and yet so little to choose from these days.Thats a big part of why there disgruntled.
This is the first I'm hearing about Flair putting the belt on Windham. If I recall, the reason Flair was unhappy and left was because they wanted him to put Luger over for the World title. Harley Race was initially against them putting the World title on Luger as well
I see. I wasn't watching RAW at that point and I wasn't even tuning into WCW on a regular basis either. I don't recall what it was exactly that made me lose interest around that time. But I know I was pretty much out of wrestling during '99 and 2000. I got fully back into it in the latter half of 2001. So unfortunately I missed out on the whole 'Invasion' storyline with the younger generation coming into WWE after the demise of WCW.
Windham, surprisingly, is blaming the wrong person. It's pretty well known that Herd mistreated and lowballed Flair. Further, Flair actually owned the belt. Also, Vince did not mistreat that belt----hell, the entire angle was that Flair considered himself the real world champion, and therefore, his belt meant more than the WWF's belt. Windham is bitter because he didn't get his turn, which I understand. But it wasn't Flair's fault. It was Herd's.
Agreed, and BW wasn't in the right place to go over for the title anyway. Hell he had just come off the 'loser leaves' match with Pillman at the June '91 Clash. BW going over Luger at GAB would have made a shitty PPV even that much more retarded, even as bad as Luger's title reign (and his lousy attempts at copping Flair in the Simmons feud) was.
Yep. The younger guys felt that they weren't being treated with the same level of respect or consideration that guys like Hogan, Nash, Hall and Savage were(among others). They weren't getting any real sort of push either as the company were all mainly involved with the older guys and their storylines. They all saw no real future for themselves by staying with WCW at that point and decided to jump over to WWE. It was definately a crucial blow for WCW.
I see your point about Vince. I loved WCW but the people in charge @ TW didn't give a damn about wrestling all they cared about was money. Their biggest mission was to run WWF out of business. What would've happened had they won? Vince even tried to help bail out ECW when Heyman ran it into the ground trying to compete. I understand Stephany & HHH call most of the shots now but I wonder what will happen when Vince is gone because Stephany & Shane don't see eye to eye. It should be interesting.
I don't know man, maybe I just was a dumb kid back in the day but man those guys in NWA really made you think they'd kill one another if you gave them guns/knives lol. They really made you think they hated one another with a passion and they were like normal guys for the most part as opposed to those "larger than life WWF" guys which made it even more believable. I especially remember the Tully Blanchard vs Magnum TA feud and those guys still kinda brag over who kicked whose ass the most lol.
Loved Barry & Ric. Herd had NO CLUE as to running a real wrestling company. The guy was a regional manager for Dominos pizza before taking the TV gig. That should sum up Herd. Ric was told to job to Luger, which he wouldnt for Lex, but would with Barry. Herd wanted it his way, so Flair took the belt which he had insured & had put down the deposit for the belt with his own money. Had Crockett still been running it, this probably woulda never have happened
Yea ILL give ya that one.People need to realize wrestling much like all other things is a buisness.So like all other things it changes with the times much like music does.I stll love the old school NWA and miss it to.I remember they had on Friday nights 10-11 the power hour, on Saturday nights 6-8 Georgia Championship Wrestling and on Sunday nights 7-8 the main event.Those were to me anyways the best of wrestling times.I bought a wrestling game in 1984 when it came out so I can still have the
You make a good point. When I first got into wrestling at the age of 9 in '86, I was very much into Hogan as most young kids were during that time of course. But I soon found him to be among the least interesting characters in wrestling, both in his ring ability and as a personality. I soon gravitated to other wrestlers, both in the WWF and in the NWA, as well as Championship Wrestling from Florida which was part of the NWA if I'm not mistaken. I LOVED FLORIDA CHAMPIONSHIP WRESTLING AS A KID!
Hogan was the WWF's main attraction without question. But I think McMahon was the only one able to do anything with him, which was to make him this larger than life, almost superhero cartoon character. He had no real wrestling ability and yet Vince was able to turn him into the biggest name in wrestling. I don't think he would have done as well or been as successful in any other promotion at that time, especially Crockett Promotions where Dusty Rhodes held major pull, even over Flair I believe.
I've heard similar arguments against Flair, Hogan. Hogan was definately the hottest guy in wrestling in the 1980s and Flair was arguably the hottest heel. Their respective promotions made huge money off of them both and they were their promotion's golden boys. They both had a ton of pull in the industry back then and sometimes abused it. They both have huge egos. Could you imagine how bad it would've killed WWF if Hogan left and went to another promotion back then? He knew it and so did Vince.
By this time it didn't matter, ric flair was on the way out and vince couldn't capitalize on it. The sky scrapers and other heels were already taking over wcw.
this game, is anyones guess cos they dont know what there missing.Im not ready to see my NWA go, and with this game its not going to.I can relive the Freebird-Von Erich feud or the Rhodes-Flair feud or create new ones.Plus do story lines and cut promos the whole 9 YDS.I bought a grand piano so I can make wrestlers ring music to. Im on a roll.The matches tonight were awesome.Michael Hayes had his head busted open from a chair shot from Dr.Death Steve Williams. Old school ya gotta love it.
Yes, I'm almost certain that it was under 5 million. Maybe someone else on here knows the precise amount. Yeah Vince probably couldn't have asked for a better deal or position to have been in. Bischoff and Russo may have wrecked the storylines and ultimately the companies credibility with their decisions, but they certainly weren't the ones holding any of the real power as you said. They were basically just the middle men in the TWC at that point, if even that.
The 90s started out bad with Herd and if anything got worse for Flair by the late 90s with Bischoff and especially Russo. Its amazing how disfunctional WCW was in that last year or two with guys like Flair, Hogan, DDP & Steiner airing very personal issues on national TV. I still can't tell what was storyline and what was real in some cases. They had many chiefs & not enough indians in WCW. A lot of that crap Russo & Bischoff pulled on tv was meant to insult Flair and demean his whole career.
barry seems so laid back about the whole incident but i remember it happening and he was livid. barry has the talent and charisma to be an icon. hell he's already a legend. this is truly a case of wrestler vs promoter politics claiming a bystander . jim herd should have had his ass kicked by the boys. im pretty sure ric flair knew that it hurt barry but what could he do?
To me WCW(formerly NWA or JCP) as I knew and viewed it as both a kid and adolescent came to an end when Hogan came to the promotion. Then guys like Savage and Jimmy Hart soon followed. To me what made WCW/JCP great is that it WASN'T the WWE(F). But then when Bischoff started bringing in all the major WWE stars into WCW it was like trying to build up the WWE in WCW. I understand it from a business perspective, which is what it's all about of course. But it just wasn't the same for me after that.
Now the heel/face formula; I dunno,but I can say that it backfired, when Stone Cold Steve Austin, kicked in the "Attitude" era, in the WWF.But You've got to admit, when Jimmy Hart joined up with Hulk Hogan, & became His manager in WCW;something went South; just like when Paul Orndorff, turned on Hogan.Now with Stone Cold being the "Anti-Hero",the fans & little kids,still loved Him.Case in point;Santa turning away a kid on RAW, so Hecan get with Sable; out comes Austin 3:16,& whooped Santa's ass!
Like Flair in a way I think with Cena what you see is what you get. He may dial it up for the gimick the way Flair always did but like Flair I do think he practices what he preaches. Ric Flair really did party and had all the girls and the lemos and lear jets. I've seen him walking down the street and he was dressed to the 9s just like on TV. Hogan wasn't the same guy in person in the Hulkamania days that he was on TV but I think what you see on TV with Cena is what you get in person.
That last line was pretty funny! But I understand where you're coming from. The original Horsemen probably should've been the ones inducted into the HOF. But I know that Ole has always had a volatile personality and I believe that he's been on the outs with Flair for some time now. This most likely explains his absence at the HOF ceremony. But it could also be that, as I said, most fans view the Windham era Horsemen as the best all around group of wrestlers to have ever been in the stable.
I don't know man, people were getting tired of the classic heel vs baby face story lines by that point. It's funny when you think about it because back in the 80s Crocket Promotions was a lot more edgy than WWF was yet by the 1990s they were trying to copy cat WWF and the larger than life charicters with classic baby face vs heel storylines when fans were wanting more edgy stuff. When Jake Roberts DDT'd Hogan on the Snake Pit and fans cheered him for it the business was changing.
Yeah Dillon was good! I see him on those WWE "wrestling round tables" on here a lot and he sounds like such a smart guy with such a good head for the business. It's too bad he couldn't have been the one to buy WCW instead of Vince!
Definately competition makes things better. Thats why I loved the 1990s so much as a wrestling fan. I was a constant channel flipper on Monday nights then. I don't know the ammount but TW sold WCW to Vince for a very low figure. Bischoff said had he known how cheap he would've bought it had he known, even Chris Jericho said he would have bought it had he known. Jericho with his own promotion could've been fun lol. WCW was just a bad asset to TW no big loss, they didn't care about wrestling.
That does sound interesting. I'll have to check it out. I always love the videos on UA-cam too, there are so many interesting ones where you hear stories from behind the scenes from years ago that you never knew about back then. You hear about guys you thought hated eachother who were best of friends and guys you thought were best of friends that hated one another.
If that's true then is sounds as if TNA is making the exact same mistake that WCW made during the late 90s and early 2000 with promoting the older and mostly former WWE superstars over the younger talent that they had. I mean you would think that TNA would've learned from WCW's big mistakes back then and concentrate on building up the talent of the younger stars on their roster. But perhaps old guys like Hogan still hold alot of pull and power in the wrestling game.
I agree with that.But it would have been neat had Hogan-Savage-Nash & Hall not gone to the WCW to see if Sting could,ve pulled that off about being to WCW what Hogan was to the WWE.But thanks to Jim Jackass Herd I guess we will never no. So sad.Im gettin another beer.
"Jim Herd wasn't a people person." That was THE UNDERSTATEMENT of wrestling history. Jim Herd, like Russo, "Johnny Ace", and a few others, is one of those people that NEVER should have been allowed to run a wrestling promotion.
its funny windham didnt get to win the world title until ric flair came back to wcw.And it was ric flair that put the title around his waist.. and then it was flair that beat him for the title.
Yeah they got me with Hulkamania hook line & sinker but even I was getting tired of the same old crap by the time he came to WCW and I hear he was too. As you said: what was cool when you were 10 is lame when you are 20. But damned Hogan got me every bit as hooked when he became Hollywood Hogan as he did 10 years earlier on Hulkamania lol. I could see a heel/face turn from a mile out but neve saw that comming. I think his matches were better because he was having fun with it himself after that.
I've heard some pretty wild stories of WCW's locker room and the Nitro girls but I don't know for sure. Scott Steiner in particular was pretty notorious being the "Genetic Jack Hammer" that he was lol. Then you had guys like Buff Bagwell that never did much in the ring but were the life of the party back stage. I can't believe that dipshit had his mom call Jim Ross when he was supposed to show up on RAW and say "Buff doesn't feel well, he can't make it!". What kinda shit is that for a wrestler?!
But back then, you did,nt have that problem. Each area had there own stars and fan base plus there own feuds.Now its so watered down and fans are getting pretty bored with that, and the fact there aint much else to choose from.Thats why im glad I have that game.I go on the NWA tour Mon-Thu and relive the WTBS weekend stars-jobbers before heading back on tour the following week. Plus I do PPVs to.And tonight my NWA tour was in Tampa FLA. Its a rush Im tellin ya.Why more people are not turned onto
Vince treated Flair with a lot more respect than Jim Herd ever did. Herd didn't know the first thing about wrestling. The Hunchbacks? The Ding Dongs? Please.
the most famous arenas around.There you can have a full card of matches and the feuds that follow em.Mon, the Freebirds-Von Erichs could be in Chicago in a cage match and then on Tue, be in Detroit for a bullrope match.Weekends Fri-Sun its back to home base Atlanta for the T.V. tapeings. This is where the jobbers face the stars for the build up of the next weeks tour.I even have PPVs.It has women wrestlers as well, plus managers who butt in as well.You can google Superstar Pro Wrestling Game and
I agree. The difference between TNA now and WCW then is TNA doesn't have anywhere near the ammount of money to throw around the way WCW had and Hogan is physically wrecked now. Hogan can't be the guy in the spotlight he was then and I think he knows it better than anybody. Unfotunately if TNA has a new young guy that does get hot WWE is probably going to steel him right out from under them though. But they gotta go with the younger guys not has beens and WWE rejects and have better story lines.
From 1991 to about 1994 Jim Herd really screwed up WCW and had no idea what he was doing with the talent and the books were bouncing back and forth between everyone. They started taping shows ahead of time along with several title changes taking place on one show that when it was aired, spanned over weeks. The company almost tanked had Eric Bischoff hadn't taken it over, but that's another story.
Interesting point. I think that whether or not he was in fact "Horsemen material", The Horsemen at that point simply didn't hold the same kind of power, excitement or mystique as they did in the 80s. I don't think that Brian Pillman was Horsemen material either. The 4 of them were all great wrestlers, but they just didn't fit that well together as Horsemen imo.
Barry Windham was criminally underrated as a worker. There very few guys his size with his agility in the ring. He was amazing to watch in his prime.
Facts
Yea ol Jimbo is one of a kind.I dont know about you, but I miss those days.That was when wrestling was fun cos they kept it all so simple.Simple story line,simple match and a good promo.They let the 3 tell the story.And by the way Happy Holidays !!!
Jim Cornette was indeed a classic! To me him and Jimmy Hart were sort of each others counterparts in their respective promotions. I always loved The Horsemen even back then. There was just something about them. LOD were AWESOME! I actually enjoyed when they went back to being heels in late '88. First they turned on Sting. Then they DESTROYED The Midnight Express and FINALLY won the belts! Then they spiked Dusty on national tv! I can still remember those times in late '88 vividly!
BARRY WAS ONE OF MY FAVS OF THAT TIME
If you ever go on Wikipedia, there is some great stuff to read in regards to the ongoing conflict that took place between WWF(E) and JCP/WCW. It's so intersting to read about the power plays which constantly took place between the 2 companies from the early 80s up onto the demise of WCW in 2001. It's an engrossing story without a doubt! I was just on Wikipedia the other night and reading about events such as 'Black Saturday' and of course 'The Monday Night Wars'. You should really check it out!
I grew up near Charlotte. I used to pass by Ric Flair's house every day on the school bus. His daughter was in elementary school at the time and I was in Jr. High. Every now and then I'd see him waiting on the bus with her. My sister went to high school with Dustin Rhodes and Dusty would go to all his football games, get drunk and cuss like hell I hear. Where the Horsemen followed him to and beat him up in the parking lot was very close to where a friend of mine lived. That kinda scared me lol.
I usually did in fact cheer for the faces but, as I said, there was something so intriguing to me about The Horsemen. They definately had this mystique to them that very few other heel wrestlers had. The LOD were always badass, even as de facto baby faces, but when they turned on Sting and Dusty and won the tag titles, they were actually DANGEROUS again! It didn't last for very long though. The fans cheered them too much and they became de facto baby faces once again!
I agree about Pillman. Tully Blanchard, Mr. Cocky Himself said ya couldn't have the Horsemen without Tully Blanchard. As he put it: "C4 is harmless without a blasting cap but when you connect a blasting cap to just a little C4 then BOOOOM! And Tully Blanchard was the blasting cap for the IV Horsemen." Maybe he was right. I recall when they first got the Horsemen back together in the 1990s I thought they could pull it off as long as they had Flair & Arn but nope, something was definately missing.
One match that I will never forget occured at the Westside High gym in Anderson, SC, the Mulkeys' hometown and alma mater. They wrestled the Midnight Express for the NWA World's Tag Team Championship, with Ricky Morton as the special ref. Jim Cornette went through the roof when that was announced. He was good at that.
On Flair's DVD, Herd wanted Flair to drop it to Luger, but Flair wanted to drop it to Sting. Then Herd ordered him to drop it to Windham before the GAB telling him that he was fired. Herd told Flair that Dillinger was on the way to collect the World title belt. Flair told him that he better have $25,000 plus interest because that was the amount he paid as a deposit when the company changed names. Herd just told him to "fuck off" and keep the belt. That's what I heard.
All through the mid-late 1980s Crocket Promotions and then WCW was looking for their guy that could do for them what Hogan did in the WWF for Vince.Then Sting cam along and could he could have been their answer to Hogan. In the early 1990s they were trying to build WCW around Sting. I recall the CNN tower in downtown Atlanta had a huge 2-3 story Sting mural on it back in the day. But, all that went out the window when guys like Hogan, Savage, Nash & Hall came to WCW.
On the Horsemen Dvd, Barry said he understands why Flair did what he did. Now that he knew the whole story! WOOOO
I've only been to two live shows ever: GAB 1984 and the second was some small time indy show at a county fair just a few years back. GAB '84 in Charlotte at the Memorial Stadium must've been a "historic night" in wrestling lore because I see so many of those matches from that night on these WWE dvds like Ric Flair vs Ricky Morton and LOD vs. the Russians chain match & some others. It was fun and that indy promotion was better than anything I've seen on Monday Night Raw or Smackdown in years.
I can't remember the exact details but do you recall when RAW left USA network and for a few years it was on a couple of different networks? In the end WWF went right back to USA where they'd always been. There was some agreement that all networks had to agree to for the TWC deal to go through and USA was one of the networks not going along with it. I've wondered if this is why TWC bought WCW to begin with because WWF shows was all USA ever had that really drew ratings that I can recall.
Boy you hit the nail on the head with that one.When Vince became more less the only game in town I said to myself wrestling as we know it was over.I never was a WWF/WWE fan nor did I care for the Monday night wars though it did make each fed push the envelope a little more, I was and always will be NWA old school. But back in those days it was just great to be a fan of any of the feds cos we had so many feds and styles to choose from.Like I said, I would get bored with the same one all the time.
Sting was the guy that lost out more than anybody there! I recall seeing a huge mural of Sting about 3-4 stories high on the Turner HQ/Omny in Atlanta around 92-93. After all those years the NWA and then WCW as you say finally found their answer to Hogan and they were pushing him hard. But as soon as Hogan, Savage etc. started pooring in Sting just kinda got brushed aside. And like you said TNA has done pretty much the same thing to guys like AJ Styles for guys like RVD & Jeff Hardy recently.
What's up again! I just wanted to comment some more on Dillion. J.J., unlike so many other managers in wrestling, NEVER came off as being cartoonish. He always came off as being very business like in his managing approach and style. And when he said his guys were going to put a hurting on some other wrestler, you just KNEW that he meant it! Again, there was nothing ever cartoonish or exaggerated about J.J. Dillion's character as a wrestling manager.
Yea thats great.Funny you should mention those two.Me and a girl I was seeing at the time went to our local arena and we had front row seats and they had the NWA there and those 2 were on that card.This was back when Tully was with Baby Doll.Anyways I forget if there match was a no DQ but your talking some 20 or 25 years ago, but anyways the thing I remember the most from that night was all the blood they had shed.And dont forget we were in the front row for that one.Thats why I liked the
I don't recall EVER remembering Windham being in the title picture around this time. He was in a mid-card feud with Pillman. Lex Luger, a month before the Bash, faced Muta in a "#1 contenders match" on the Clash of Champions. The winner would face Flair at the Bash. Luger won the match. Again, no sign of Barry Windham. Than Flair left with the belt, and all of a sudden Windham was named the "#2 contender." He was the "#8 contender" the week before. Not sure where Windham is getting his history!
Business men like the wonderful Jim Herd right? But the Crocketts were living beyond their means with all the big private jets and such. And then sold it to Turner who pretty much left the boys in his company in charge to have at it. I think the 'Rise and Fall of WCW' dvd did a pretty admirable job of detaling how it all went down. And Vince probably let the story be told because it ultimately made the Crocketts look like inept business men compared to him(which I guess they pretty much were).
Barry wasn't even in the main event before Flair left--it was Flair and Luger in the cage. I think Flair left about a week before the PPV, and Barry got in one interview at the end of WCW Saturday Night to hype himself. I remember the interview being at ringside after his squash match and Barry saying "I'm gonna walk that aisle like the Nature Boy never could!" WCW/NWA had teased Luger winning the belt for 3 years at that point, Barry was more in the hunt for the U.S. belt at that time
Your point reminds me of another clip on UA-cam where Jake the Snake Roberts is talking about how he DDT'd Hogan and people cheered. Roberts said "the fans reacted wrong!" lol. That was the early 1990s, if you think about it that was a wierd time in wrestling history: the promotions were still trying to give us the heel/face formula of old and yet the fans were getting tired of it, the promotions (especially WWE & even WCW) didn't know how to react to that for a while it seems.
Yeah, Flair DEFINATELY lived it up during his peak in the sport throughout the 80s. I had the dvd of 'Ric Flair and The Four Horsemen' and those guys really did live the gimmick out of the ring as well! I also know that alot of wrestlers have an extreme dislike for Hogan in real life so yes, he clearly wasn't the 'lovable' Hulkster that he portrayed so well during the era of 'Hulkamania'. It would most likely seem that he did indeed abuse his position of power in the WWF and later in WCW.
Dillon was the icening on the cake for the Horsemen but I'm not so sure the Horsemen would've ever been the force they were without Dillon. The Horsemen weren't just guys that the promotion stuck together they were friends and all loved the business JJ was the guy that kept the machine well oiled and running on all cylinders.He wasn't just a TV/ringside manager either, he did handle a lot of the behind the scenes business and was the final say within the group No wonder it worked so well.
Ole has said in an interview on here that he can't stand McMahon. Benoit was a terrific wrestler but The Horsemen might be very hesitant to even bring up his name now due to the terrible tragedy he was involved with. Hennig was great as well. I thought his Mr. Perfect persona was a pretty cool and interesting character. I LOVED the way he would bounce of those ropes back in the day! Very funny and yet also quite athletic too! A real shame about his untimely death as well.
I agree with ya on old school. Those guys back then made you feel that they really hated eachother and if you gave them guns or pistols someone was gonna end up dead. You don't see that now. It's like when Magnum & Tully got into it you could hear them knuckles knocking on skulls for real lol! I saw a clip on here of Magnum & Tully doing an old NWA fan fest reunion recently and they were still kinda talking shit to one another about who whooped who's ass the most in KIND OF a friendly way lol.
Windham was one of the best mechanics.
The Crockets also screwed Flair over in the end. Part of the agreement was Flair had to be a part of the deal and go along with it but they never told Flair that. Flair is still pissed about that and says "I would've held them up for a shitload of money had they told me." which I'm sure they knew lol. Blanchard spent some time in prison in the 1990s didn't he? I know all the attempts to reform the Horsemen without both Tully and then Arn and I still think the Horsemen died when Olie left.
You're both right actually (and both wrong), Herd hated Flair and wanted him gone, he thought Luger was the future and wanted the title on him, Flair disagreed and suggested Windham, Herd initially relented but then at the last minute changed his mind, decided for Luger, fired Flair, and demanded the title back. As champ Flair had a $25,000 deposit on the belt (plus interest), Herd refused to give Flair his money back so Flair kept the belt (as was his legal right) and went to the WWF
always will be the Freebirds.I can bring back the old school or the new ones.I even bought me a grand piano and self taught myself how to play so I could work on my wrestlers theme music.I have my own recording studio in my home so pop your tarts to that Vince, HA !!! And its a blast to do my NWA tour each week.Mon, night my birds vs the Von Erichs in Detroit in a cage and then on Tue, night be in N.Y. in a barbed wire match.I mean you can really follow your wrestlers feuds.Its a blast.
That 2 pack in the thumbnail is really cool
Yes I know about Blanchard and Koloff both. And Tully does seem to be pretty level headed and straightend out nowadays.
the role as the heel.There more fun.They make things happen.Its fun this game, cos 1 night we will be in Boston in a cage, the next night in Charlotte in a chain match, then the next night in Miami in a strap match and then off to Memphis for a dog collar match.The Freebirds vs the Von Erichs.You get to follow the feud.Plus the rest of the card and the feuds that are on it.And the under card as well.Then its back to Atlanta for the weekend.Vince aint the only game in town no more. I love it.
Yeah it's amazing how many of those old guys have gotten religious. Going back to what you were talking about earlier I saw Ric Flair on RAW a couple of weeks ago for just a brief appearance. I don't know if he got religious or not but it was good to see the REAL RIC FLAIR back. It was real good to see Flair back in more ways than one. Of course it's going to break your heart to know he was giving the Miz a push though lol. Cena kinda earned my respects for giving Flair his due too.
Yeah I'm pretty sure Tully Blanchard was in prison for a while. I don't know how long or exactly why but as you said he had a drug problem at one point and I ASSUME it had something to do with that. But I know he straightened out and he got real religious, even became a preacher I think and does stuff with prison ministries now. Did you know Nikita Koloff is now a preacher too? He seems like one of the nicest guys you'd ever meet also. Hard to imagine from his NWA days lol.
As a kid I had guys I liked & guys I hated like we were supposed to but as an adult I just watch and appreciate what they do without really booing or cheering a guy USUALLY. Cena may not be the best talent we've ever seen and yeah he did his crappy movies too but I think the guy really does love the business and gives 110% to the fans even if it is always the same old thing like Hogan. Cena, he is to kids today what Hogan was to my generation and he tries to be a good role model. I respect that.
Even back in the day long before Benoit did what he did he just wasn't "Horsemen material" as Arn Anderson would say I didn't think. The key to the origional Horsemen was they were "cool heels". As a kid I thought everyone hated the Horsemen till I noticed in church that those high school/college guys older than me were all die hard Horsemen fans because to a teenage guy I imagine they were cool back then. Benoit was a GREAT talent in the ring but he couldn't pull off that "cool heel" thing.
I didn't know about Vince trying to help out ECW. But yes, I know that Bischoff was determined to bring Vince and his company down, that's been very well documented. And Bischoff no doubt would've wanted WCW to be the only promotion around as well. It's a shame that due to the immense greed involved with ALL promotions that others are simply not allowed to thrive. But I ultimately think it's healthier and wiser for the wrestling business if there's more than just one single promotion around.
it will tell ya all ya need to know.You can even have battle royals as well.Im keeping my NWA dream alive through this game and its as reeal as what you see on T.V. I got a big Xmas card comin up in Atlanta where alot of issues may or may not be settled.You can create your own promos and story lines as well.I bought me a grand piano and even create wrestlers theme music.Im on a roll. What ever it is, im on it.Atlanta on Xmas and in San Angelo TX the next night Happy Holidays !!!
Yeah I come & go with wrestling myself. I'll go for years and watch it religiously every week and then go for years where I don't watch a second of it and have pretty much done that all my life at random. I quit watching about the time NWA became WCW (not for that reason though) and got back into it about the time the Monday night wars started. Watched all through out the 1990s every week and then stopped watching in 2000 when WWE was the only game in town and mainly for that reason.
I understand what you're saying about Vince and it's a very well made point. But to me Vince also had alot to do with killing off the enjoyment of wrestling in his mission to be the ONLY promotion in the country. I think when people talk about how great the sport was in the 80s alot of it has to do with the fact there were so many wrestling organizations around and how it gave fans the opportunity to view wrestling in numerous settings. And Vince took most of that away after he bought WCW.
Barry seems like a nice guy
That's fair enough and I certainly respect your opinion on Cena. And yeah, as you grow into adulthood you no longer really have those same feelings as when you were a kid with booing or cheering on a particular character in the ring. You just hope to see wrestlers put on a fun and exciting match that you can simply sit back and enjoy. And you definately realize now as an adult how much of a silly and put on soap opera wrestling truly is. But it can still be a heck of alot of fun when done right!
Yeah Sting was the orginizations top guy for quite a few years, especially when Flair left in '91. And even when Flair returned to WCW in '93 Sting was still pretty much the main attraction in the company. But when Hogan came in it was all about rebuilding Hulkamania in WCW which, like I said, just didn't work for me. To me Hulkamania was already passe by that point in time. But Bischoff was determined to restart it. But it was no longer the 80s and the decision seemed to be almost lazy to me.
Those were wierd times in the WCW lol. Jim Herd and a lot of the other brass thought Flair was over the hill and they also wanted to have their version of Hulk Hogan. They were going to try and push Luger as their Hulk Hogan and that was just a bad move, Luger just didn't have Hogan's charisma, not even close. Even McMahon found that out the hard way a few years later when he tried to do the same with Luger. Sting could've been WCW's answer to Hogan had he come along 5-10 years earlier.
Freebirds.Well that and the fact that anyone who loved Skynyrd got my vote.But Michael Hayes would cut these promos and you would hate his guts.But as a mark thats what he wanted you to do.But it did,nt matter to me because They were the only reason I got into wrestling in the 1st place.This was back when World Class Wrestling was burning hot.The old Freebird-Von Erich feud was classic.And Hayes like him or not, could cut a promo and the rest was pure wrestling magic.And it worked.
Ric Flair had the Big Gold Belt with Him when He joined WWF the first time in the early 90's , which was fine cause The New WCW Heavyweight Title was even better looking !!! The WWF Eagle Belt (Both of them) was the coolest !!!
Yeah you could always tell that Dillion was a very intelligent man in real life. He had an enormous presence in interviews as well. I agree that The Horsemen wouldn't have been quite the same without Dillion in their stable. And he lived The Horsemen lifestyle with Flair and company too. I really HATED when he came back to WCW in the 90s to be the onscreen, GM was it, to be beaten up every now and then by the NWO. This was definately NOT the J.J. that I remembered from the 80s!
I can't recall for certain when RAW was on different networks but it was while the Monday Night Wars were still going on but near the end and maybe for a little while there after. It seems that would've been like 1998 or maybe 1999 to maybe 2000-2001 or maybe a little longer. I think they were on Spike TV for a little while and also I think TBS. Nitro was on TNT wasn't it? If so it definately wasn't TNT but for a little while there RAW was on one of the Turner networks.
So true about Flair, although it's been incredibly painful for me to see the guy attempt to 'wrestle' for these past few years. I really wish he would've bowed out gracefully, even though I understand that it's largely been for financial reasons the he continues to work in the ring. But yeah, all those guy you mentioned were true professionals in the ring and the sport in general. It was all about wrestling and putting on the best show for the fans. Miz a 'movie star'? HAHAHA! NOT A CHANCE!
Fans can communicate and share their feelings thanks to the internet now. Competition makes everything better including pro wrestling but unfortunately no other promotion can claim to be a legitimate challenge to the WWE in professional wrestling. But if you look at the old territorial days the territories weren't directly competing with one another at least not for fan support. Promotions like ROH & TNA have to grow and become truely competitive with WWE for wrestling as a whole to get better.
Yea I cant argue that.But the wrestling game I have isn't a video game.I guess you could call it a table top one.I added a few grudge matches on it that wasn't in the game when I bought it.Most of the well known grudge matches were included at the time.But I added the 1st blood one.And a Taser match and a streetfight one as well. It came with a TX death match and a cage one as well as a Russian chain, Nebraska bullrope, Dog collar, and a Boot camp one as well.Later issues of the game came with
Unfortunately I gotta agree with you about competition for the WWE anytime soon. With technology being what it is an so many agreeing with us you'd think some organization like ROH or TNA or someone we haven't even heard of yet could just freaking blow up over night and become as hot as anything you've ever seen in wrestling if someone had their shit together. But I don't see that happening any time soon leaving guys like us left to watch matches from 20-30 years ago & play video games lol.
I know all about the raw deal that Flair got too. I don't remember hearing about Tull doing time though. I know that he was plannig on going back to WCW with Arn to reform The Horsemen with Flair and Ole. But then he failed a drug test and only Arn ended up coming back to WCW. Btw, do you mean when Ole originally left the group in early '87? Because I certainly don't believe they died then. There was still the Windham era to come, who most believe made up the greatest Horsemen stable ever.
that the beating he got from billy jack hayes was long overdue as Barry Windham thought he was running the company since flair and rhodes were gone or something like that.
I actually can't recall that about RAW being put on different networks right now. Do you remember what year(s) that took place?
a strap match, Libyan death match, a Sandininsta death match, a Scaffold match and also a barbed wire one to. I like the barbed wire match.But yea.I agree with you what you said.Its just a shame that we have so many disgruntled fans and yet so little to choose from these days.Thats a big part of why there disgruntled.
This is the first I'm hearing about Flair putting the belt on Windham. If I recall, the reason Flair was unhappy and left was because they wanted him to put Luger over for the World title. Harley Race was initially against them putting the World title on Luger as well
I see. I wasn't watching RAW at that point and I wasn't even tuning into WCW on a regular basis either. I don't recall what it was exactly that made me lose interest around that time. But I know I was pretty much out of wrestling during '99 and 2000. I got fully back into it in the latter half of 2001. So unfortunately I missed out on the whole 'Invasion' storyline with the younger generation coming into WWE after the demise of WCW.
Windham, surprisingly, is blaming the wrong person. It's pretty well known that Herd mistreated and lowballed Flair. Further, Flair actually owned the belt. Also, Vince did not mistreat that belt----hell, the entire angle was that Flair considered himself the real world champion, and therefore, his belt meant more than the WWF's belt. Windham is bitter because he didn't get his turn, which I understand. But it wasn't Flair's fault. It was Herd's.
Agreed, and BW wasn't in the right place to go over for the title anyway. Hell he had just come off the 'loser leaves' match with Pillman at the June '91 Clash.
BW going over Luger at GAB would have made a shitty PPV even that much more retarded, even as bad as Luger's title reign (and his lousy attempts at copping Flair in the Simmons feud) was.
prowl prime annoying internet so called wrestling fans acting like they personally know Jim herd. internet wrestling fans are full shit.
i felt really bad for windham even so.
Yep. The younger guys felt that they weren't being treated with the same level of respect or consideration that guys like Hogan, Nash, Hall and Savage were(among others). They weren't getting any real sort of push either as the company were all mainly involved with the older guys and their storylines. They all saw no real future for themselves by staying with WCW at that point and decided to jump over to WWE. It was definately a crucial blow for WCW.
I see your point about Vince. I loved WCW but the people in charge @ TW didn't give a damn about wrestling all they cared about was money. Their biggest mission was to run WWF out of business. What would've happened had they won? Vince even tried to help bail out ECW when Heyman ran it into the ground trying to compete. I understand Stephany & HHH call most of the shots now but I wonder what will happen when Vince is gone because Stephany & Shane don't see eye to eye. It should be interesting.
I don't know man, maybe I just was a dumb kid back in the day but man those guys in NWA really made you think they'd kill one another if you gave them guns/knives lol. They really made you think they hated one another with a passion and they were like normal guys for the most part as opposed to those "larger than life WWF" guys which made it even more believable. I especially remember the Tully Blanchard vs Magnum TA feud and those guys still kinda brag over who kicked whose ass the most lol.
Loved Barry & Ric. Herd had NO CLUE as to running a real wrestling company. The guy was a regional manager for Dominos pizza before taking the TV gig. That should sum up Herd. Ric was told to job to Luger, which he wouldnt for Lex, but would with Barry. Herd wanted it his way, so Flair took the belt which he had insured & had put down the deposit for the belt with his own money. Had Crockett still been running it, this probably woulda never have happened
Yea ILL give ya that one.People need to realize wrestling much like all other things is a buisness.So like all other things it changes with the times much like music does.I stll love the old school NWA and miss it to.I remember they had on Friday nights 10-11 the power hour, on Saturday nights 6-8 Georgia Championship Wrestling and on Sunday nights 7-8 the main event.Those were to me anyways the best of wrestling times.I bought a wrestling game in 1984 when it came out so I can still have the
That's what Flair said in an interview on his dvd. Maybe you're right! I don't know. I'm only paraphrasing what Flair said.
You make a good point. When I first got into wrestling at the age of 9 in '86, I was very much into Hogan as most young kids were during that time of course. But I soon found him to be among the least interesting characters in wrestling, both in his ring ability and as a personality. I soon gravitated to other wrestlers, both in the WWF and in the NWA, as well as Championship Wrestling from Florida which was part of the NWA if I'm not mistaken. I LOVED FLORIDA CHAMPIONSHIP WRESTLING AS A KID!
Hogan was the WWF's main attraction without question. But I think McMahon was the only one able to do anything with him, which was to make him this larger than life, almost superhero cartoon character. He had no real wrestling ability and yet Vince was able to turn him into the biggest name in wrestling. I don't think he would have done as well or been as successful in any other promotion at that time, especially Crockett Promotions where Dusty Rhodes held major pull, even over Flair I believe.
I've heard similar arguments against Flair, Hogan. Hogan was definately the hottest guy in wrestling in the 1980s and Flair was arguably the hottest heel. Their respective promotions made huge money off of them both and they were their promotion's golden boys. They both had a ton of pull in the industry back then and sometimes abused it. They both have huge egos. Could you imagine how bad it would've killed WWF if Hogan left and went to another promotion back then? He knew it and so did Vince.
By this time it didn't matter, ric flair was on the way out and vince couldn't capitalize on it. The sky scrapers and other heels were already taking over wcw.
Someone really wanted to talk to Barry Windham
this game, is anyones guess cos they dont know what there missing.Im not ready to see my NWA go, and with this game its not going to.I can relive the Freebird-Von Erich feud or the Rhodes-Flair feud or create new ones.Plus do story lines and cut promos the whole 9 YDS.I bought a grand piano so I can make wrestlers ring music to. Im on a roll.The matches tonight were awesome.Michael Hayes had his head busted open from a chair shot from Dr.Death Steve Williams. Old school ya gotta love it.
Yes, I'm almost certain that it was under 5 million. Maybe someone else on here knows the precise amount. Yeah Vince probably couldn't have asked for a better deal or position to have been in. Bischoff and Russo may have wrecked the storylines and ultimately the companies credibility with their decisions, but they certainly weren't the ones holding any of the real power as you said. They were basically just the middle men in the TWC at that point, if even that.
This is an excellent point that almost never gets brought up. Good post.
The 90s started out bad with Herd and if anything got worse for Flair by the late 90s with Bischoff and especially Russo. Its amazing how disfunctional WCW was in that last year or two with guys like Flair, Hogan, DDP & Steiner airing very personal issues on national TV. I still can't tell what was storyline and what was real in some cases. They had many chiefs & not enough indians in WCW. A lot of that crap Russo & Bischoff pulled on tv was meant to insult Flair and demean his whole career.
It was Dusty Calling!!
barry seems so laid back about the whole incident but i remember it happening and he was livid. barry has the talent and charisma to be an icon. hell he's already a legend. this is truly a case of wrestler vs promoter politics claiming a bystander . jim herd should have had his ass kicked by the boys. im pretty sure ric flair knew that it hurt barry but what could he do?
To me WCW(formerly NWA or JCP) as I knew and viewed it as both a kid and adolescent came to an end when Hogan came to the promotion. Then guys like Savage and Jimmy Hart soon followed. To me what made WCW/JCP great is that it WASN'T the WWE(F). But then when Bischoff started bringing in all the major WWE stars into WCW it was like trying to build up the WWE in WCW. I understand it from a business perspective, which is what it's all about of course. But it just wasn't the same for me after that.
Now the heel/face formula; I dunno,but I can say that it backfired, when Stone Cold Steve Austin, kicked in the "Attitude" era, in the WWF.But You've got to admit, when Jimmy Hart joined up with Hulk Hogan, & became His manager in WCW;something went South; just like when Paul Orndorff, turned on Hogan.Now with Stone Cold being the "Anti-Hero",the fans & little kids,still loved Him.Case in point;Santa turning away a kid on RAW, so Hecan get with Sable; out comes Austin 3:16,& whooped Santa's ass!
Like Flair in a way I think with Cena what you see is what you get. He may dial it up for the gimick the way Flair always did but like Flair I do think he practices what he preaches. Ric Flair really did party and had all the girls and the lemos and lear jets. I've seen him walking down the street and he was dressed to the 9s just like on TV. Hogan wasn't the same guy in person in the Hulkamania days that he was on TV but I think what you see on TV with Cena is what you get in person.
That last line was pretty funny! But I understand where you're coming from. The original Horsemen probably should've been the ones inducted into the HOF. But I know that Ole has always had a volatile personality and I believe that he's been on the outs with Flair for some time now. This most likely explains his absence at the HOF ceremony. But it could also be that, as I said, most fans view the Windham era Horsemen as the best all around group of wrestlers to have ever been in the stable.
I don't know man, people were getting tired of the classic heel vs baby face story lines by that point. It's funny when you think about it because back in the 80s Crocket Promotions was a lot more edgy than WWF was yet by the 1990s they were trying to copy cat WWF and the larger than life charicters with classic baby face vs heel storylines when fans were wanting more edgy stuff. When Jake Roberts DDT'd Hogan on the Snake Pit and fans cheered him for it the business was changing.
Yeah Dillon was good! I see him on those WWE "wrestling round tables" on here a lot and he sounds like such a smart guy with such a good head for the business. It's too bad he couldn't have been the one to buy WCW instead of Vince!
Definately competition makes things better. Thats why I loved the 1990s so much as a wrestling fan. I was a constant channel flipper on Monday nights then. I don't know the ammount but TW sold WCW to Vince for a very low figure. Bischoff said had he known how cheap he would've bought it had he known, even Chris Jericho said he would have bought it had he known. Jericho with his own promotion could've been fun lol. WCW was just a bad asset to TW no big loss, they didn't care about wrestling.
That does sound interesting. I'll have to check it out. I always love the videos on UA-cam too, there are so many interesting ones where you hear stories from behind the scenes from years ago that you never knew about back then. You hear about guys you thought hated eachother who were best of friends and guys you thought were best of friends that hated one another.
If that's true then is sounds as if TNA is making the exact same mistake that WCW made during the late 90s and early 2000 with promoting the older and mostly former WWE superstars over the younger talent that they had. I mean you would think that TNA would've learned from WCW's big mistakes back then and concentrate on building up the talent of the younger stars on their roster. But perhaps old guys like Hogan still hold alot of pull and power in the wrestling game.
I agree with that.But it would have been neat had Hogan-Savage-Nash & Hall not gone to the WCW to see if Sting could,ve pulled that off about being to WCW what Hogan was to the WWE.But thanks to Jim Jackass Herd I guess we will never no. So sad.Im gettin another beer.
"Jim Herd wasn't a people person."
That was THE UNDERSTATEMENT of wrestling history. Jim Herd, like Russo, "Johnny Ace", and a few others, is one of those people that NEVER should have been allowed to run a wrestling promotion.
its funny windham didnt get to win the world title until ric flair came back to wcw.And it was ric flair that put the title around his waist.. and then it was flair that beat him for the title.
Yeah they got me with Hulkamania hook line & sinker but even I was getting tired of the same old crap by the time he came to WCW and I hear he was too. As you said: what was cool when you were 10 is lame when you are 20. But damned Hogan got me every bit as hooked when he became Hollywood Hogan as he did 10 years earlier on Hulkamania lol. I could see a heel/face turn from a mile out but neve saw that comming. I think his matches were better because he was having fun with it himself after that.
I've heard some pretty wild stories of WCW's locker room and the Nitro girls but I don't know for sure. Scott Steiner in particular was pretty notorious being the "Genetic Jack Hammer" that he was lol. Then you had guys like Buff Bagwell that never did much in the ring but were the life of the party back stage. I can't believe that dipshit had his mom call Jim Ross when he was supposed to show up on RAW and say "Buff doesn't feel well, he can't make it!". What kinda shit is that for a wrestler?!
But back then, you did,nt have that problem. Each area had there own stars and fan base plus there own feuds.Now its so watered down and fans are getting pretty bored with that, and the fact there aint much else to choose from.Thats why im glad I have that game.I go on the NWA tour Mon-Thu and relive the WTBS weekend stars-jobbers before heading back on tour the following week. Plus I do PPVs to.And tonight my NWA tour was in Tampa FLA. Its a rush Im tellin ya.Why more people are not turned onto
Vince treated Flair with a lot more respect than Jim Herd ever did. Herd didn't know the first thing about wrestling. The Hunchbacks? The Ding Dongs? Please.
the most famous arenas around.There you can have a full card of matches and the feuds that follow em.Mon, the Freebirds-Von Erichs could be in Chicago in a cage match and then on Tue, be in Detroit for a bullrope match.Weekends Fri-Sun its back to home base Atlanta for the T.V. tapeings. This is where the jobbers face the stars for the build up of the next weeks tour.I even have PPVs.It has women wrestlers as well, plus managers who butt in as well.You can google Superstar Pro Wrestling Game and
Phone starts ringing and Windham realizes that it's Flair calling, lol.
YEAH REMEMBER THIS TOO WELL.
I agree. The difference between TNA now and WCW then is TNA doesn't have anywhere near the ammount of money to throw around the way WCW had and Hogan is physically wrecked now. Hogan can't be the guy in the spotlight he was then and I think he knows it better than anybody. Unfotunately if TNA has a new young guy that does get hot WWE is probably going to steel him right out from under them though. But they gotta go with the younger guys not has beens and WWE rejects and have better story lines.
From 1991 to about 1994 Jim Herd really screwed up WCW and had no idea what he was doing with the talent and the books were bouncing back and forth between everyone. They started taping shows ahead of time along with several title changes taking place on one show that when it was aired, spanned over weeks. The company almost tanked had Eric Bischoff hadn't taken it over, but that's another story.
@catdaddy2006 YEAH THE BELT WAS FLAIR'S
Interesting point. I think that whether or not he was in fact "Horsemen material", The Horsemen at that point simply didn't hold the same kind of power, excitement or mystique as they did in the 80s. I don't think that Brian Pillman was Horsemen material either. The 4 of them were all great wrestlers, but they just didn't fit that well together as Horsemen imo.