@@kellenmims2400 i know is her opinion and HAS to be respected...but i couldn't handle it and just stopped the video after the first 4 minutes. I mean, suikoden 2 is one of the most important gem of the entire rpg...and, worse than suiko 1?...come on...
@@Daniel-Unmeiten Don't care for neither I am just curious where do you people come from and give me reasons why do you believe this to be the best JRPG ever and WHY is it important at all ?! And before someone asks, I don't have a favorite therefore I wont flex with another title to counter yours, I will simply say that I respect each game for what it is and if it's not interesting and or irrelevant then I will simply avoid it. Claiming one game being the best is just absurd and unrealistic. But yeah I am waiting for that valid proof and examples. So go on and tell me please maybe I am missing something all these years ....
Love people who have the courage to speak their thoughts, even if they go against the general consensus. Welcome to the club :) Hope you can play Suikoden V one day (if you haven't). It's my favorite in the series, better than 2 in my opinion. I adore 2, like many others, but I do believe it's somewhat overrated nowadays. Also, glad to see some love for the first one; it's truly an underrated gem.
I’m actually playing/streaming V for the first time(found it for a decent price a couple of years back luckily) now and so far I can definitely see why it’s a favorite of the series. It’s slowly but surely becoming my personal favorite
I had this game years ago when it came out I beat it twice the second time getting every character..... I consider this one of the all-time greats and definitely in my top two favorite games of all time the story is timeless and holds up even today... Years ago I sold the game before I realized it's value and before it's value skyrocketed... This past year I repurchased the game and we all know that isn't cheap these days but it's well worth it!!! Awesome to see someone playing still in 2020... But I have to disagree it's the best suikoden hands down and many people agree..
In my opinion, the story of suiko2 is by far the best of all games i've seen and played. Not even chrono trigger, tales of, or ff games can't compete with it
Hi Pam. One of the things that I love about your reviews is the wonderful way that you articulate your thoughts and the way that you edit your videos to support those thoughts. I enjoyed hearing your thoughts on this game.
Exactly my thoughts. Also, just for your knowledge, the translation to Spanish was so bad, sometimes it didn't make sense. I love this game, and have very fond memories of it, but I agree with you in all your points, save for not caring when Nanami is hit by the arrow 😢
To me, Suikoden 2 is the definition of "It's like the first one, but better!" Hell, being able to equip 3 runes per character, inventory change and the longer game length alone makes it better. Now obviously I'm sure writing-wise, some of their best ideas from a narrative perspective were used up in the first one and they didn't want to completely retread, but the director was quoted as saying that fans of the first focused on the characters so that was what he had focused on in the second game. A big reason why it's the most popular in the franchise. To me, a game that focuses on recruiting 108 people SHOULD BE longer. Otherwise, it's just a whole lot of non characterization. Which one can probably argue is kind of the case anyways. Not every character gets much focus. Only a handful like Victor and Flik, etc. Complaining about game length and that a bunch of side stuff you don't even have to do exists is a bit weird to me. For example, doing Clive's side story means that you HAVE to get through the game basically in 20ish hours. If it took you 40, it means you were really going out of your way to collect every little thing that had no bearing on anything. The only flying squirrel that was a star of destiny, you get at the very beginning of the game. Having to win that card matching game in a certain amount of turns in Suikoden 1 was much more of a hellscape than any recruitment in 2. To each their own, though. 1, 2 and 5 are all great games.
@@Cannotbetamed1 I would say there's better characterization between the hero, nanami and jowy, particularly early which is probably a big reason why it takes so long to get the castle and go into gotta catch em all mode. However, again, neither of these two games are given enough time to focus on much of any of the 108 characters while still having functional gameplay. I also feel like the filling up of the castle and its surrounding area had more charm than the first.
5 takes forever to load let alone forest encounters give flashbacks when the slow story doesn't. 1 you can't run unless you have stallion. Remaster will improve but no duel, cooking nor war info sadly. Obviously video does not like the georg prime memes, which yeah he reappears in 5 for brief times. ua-cam.com/video/ZR8SyQj76mY/v-deo.html
the soundtrack is not bad, but it's not even close to as good as 1. The character art design and especially the 3 main characters aren't as interesting. The army battles are crap and have the music crap out bug. I think the story in both is good but
Really enjoyed this review! Although I disagree with many of your points especially regarding the story. I suppose finding out that Viktor and Flik didn't die left you a bad first impression, and Luca Blight's almost comical evilness made you lost interest to explore the story deeply. Which is too bad, because the rich story and lore is why Suikoden 2 fans love this game! Some of the important elements of the story are showed in subtle manners, like Luca's motivation, his humanity that he showed before he died, Jowy's desire of power and his arrangements with Leon Silverberg, and many more. When you interpret Jowy's reason for fighting as "because destiny" and called it lazy writing, it broke my heart a little lol. I hope one day you can revisit Suikoden 2 with a new point of view and take your time to dig deeper into its world and characters, and maybe fall in love with this game a little bit harder, like its fans.
I respect your opinion. ^_^ But, if I may explain, Luca Blight's character stuck out to a lot of people not so much for his depth as a character but for what he represented as a concept. Yes, Luca is evil. Ridiculously evil. He's a man driven by hate and rage and vengeance and little else. I agree, he's not very deep. Even taking into account what was implied to have happened to him and his mother. It's when he's explored as a character concept that makes him stand out: in a world with magic, beastmen, runes, and monsters? A single human warrior is, to this day, canonically the strongest being in the Suikoverse. It took sneaky tactics, 3 teams of heroes, several volleys of cutscene arrows, and a duel with The Hero to take him down. All he had was himself. His men were barely a factor. Luca wasn't possessed or the Devil in disguise either: he was a broken child who grew up to be a hateful man who, unfortunately, also just happened to be the mightiest, and most prodigious swordsman his world had ever seen. He's done nothing but train and prepare for the day he sets his fangs on Jowston, prepped and beefed up his then weakened army, basically wresting control over it from his father as crown-prince, and when he did? No one and nothing stood a chance against him. In an open battle, he was unmatched. Hurt him? And he ends up rallying his men or fighting so hard everyone in your army takes damage. To the soldiers fighting with him and watching him work? He must've have been quite a sight. He was partly able to mount the kind of offensive he did because, according to Rowd, Luca was very popular among the men of Highland and his rise as king was seen positively as they were unaware of what he and Jowy did and his cruel nature. Highland mostly didn't know or particularly care. All they knew was that they had a Warrior King who was going to avenge their people. Nothing Jowy did was ever on the scale and speed that Luca did. Jowy was a king of an enemy army, Luca Blight? Was treated more like a force of nature. And all this, again, despite just being a guy with a sword and a horrible agenda. His character design also leads fans to speculate: Luca wears white armor and a blue cape. Colors and affects usually associated with heroes. And yet, he's the villain. It's ironic. People speculate what could have been had Darrel, the old mayor of Muse not ruined him as a boy. Han Cunningham noted Luca's talent as a warrior even before that. While it doesn't excuse or change what he did, people wonder if there was ever a chance or a world where Luca could have been a hero instead? A great king? Or perhaps he was destined for the warpath from the start? That, I feel, apart from his boss fight is what makes him fun.
You said all the things I was going to say :-D well put. And yes Luca Blight will always stand out in my memories as one of the most iconic villains in turn-based RPG history. You ambush his army, send special hit squads after him, kill his entire honor guard, engage him in THREE, 6 on 1 battles, riddle him with 50+ arrows and he STILL nearly beats your @$$ to a pulp in a one-on-one duel.
Quite a bold claim and huge stretch, people who would say such things clearly speak purely by some mental bias or didn't play games at all, or even worse played but didn't pay any attention, and sadly today most people especially new generations have zero attention span so as bird brains that their memory lasts probably 10 seconds ... I often meeting new people online seen this pattern of incompetence and lack of brain process. We talk about lots of things but all that information goes nowhere. Especially people in the west tend to suffer from mental issues every second person is on some meds and feels like I am talking to myself ... Person starts a topic (often irrelevant), I join in out of giving it a chance, giving my 2 cents then the person asks me what am I talking about and why are we talking about this ... feels like the next questions could easily be who am I and where are we, like I am talking to a complete senile person that have a complete memory reset every 15 seconds or so ... When I manage to keep a conversation for one minute feels like a miracle. Person asks me something I answer then the next question is why are we talking about this and why did I "start" this conversation, to which I say you legit asked me not even one minute ago I simply answered your question, they give me a blank expression like I fell from another planet ... Honestly I am sick of it all. They all flex and have bold claims of things with zero facts or zero common sense but somehow get even insulted when you tell them the truth, seems like even a slight taste of reality puts them into panic mode, and with that said magically demand that someone should take them seriously, gtfo.
@@Cannotbetamed1 this got me thinking, I played this when I was 14 and remember it as flawless, gonna have to give it another go to see if nostalgia holds up. One thing is for sure though, Reminiscence is an amazing song, still gives me goosebumps to this day.
@@Cannotbetamed1 One of the strangest bugs I encountered must be during the middle section of the Luca Blight fight. Suddenly the intense battle music was fused with a loud honking nonstop sound. Kept going for several minutes untill it stopped. Overall a great in depth video :) Looking forward to more future JRPG videos from you ;)
Funny story from when I played this as a kid, when Ryu and Jowy jumped from the cliff at the beginning I thought I died, so I restarted a few times before I finally sat through the cutscene and the story progressed. Probably did it about 3 or 4 times before figuring it out. Still One of my favorite games of all time, I still haven't played 5 yet so I really need too.
@@andyk9735 From what I have gathered its the next best thing. Suikoden II seems to be situational based on when you played it, my memories of Suikoden I are pretty dull but I remember Gremio breaking my heart, the whole series is a gem, I hope to see more of it in the future. V is defiantly a must play at some point for me, I have it, but don't have a PS2 at the moment.
@@sophialovecraft7894 one thing I will say is: it's a very slow burner at the start. It takes around 8 - 10 hours to get going properly, but after that it's 50+ hours of absolute Suikoden / JRPG gold :D
talking about not understanding why jowy continues to fight the city states while showing footage from the scene where he explains the political and sociological reasons he continues to fight that have been meticulously established since the opening hours of the story
@@poyopotpie What did she mean? She said his reasons made no sense, and it was just, "Destiny, I guess?..." His reasons were very clear and made complete sense, not really sure why she couldn't grasp them.
@@bumblebee2511 She emphasized destiny because there came a point in the game where Jowy, instead of ending the war once Luca Blight was dead and aligning with Riou, cited destiny as his reason for continuing to fight. Think about the events at Rockaxe Castle. Neither Riou nor Nanami wanted to fight Jowy, but Jowy insisted that because their destinies were linked via the two runes, they had to fight.
@@KK_183 I can add a thing. They are guided by Leknaat . This is really a game about destiny, characters is stars of destiny. Han Cunningham and Genkaku tries to avoid destiny but you cant erase the hatred between nations like that. Luca Blight become evil because Han Cunningham and Genkaku avoid the war and Genkaku refuse to fight him in that organized fight. You need a winner in a war. They have the responsabilities to put an end in that.This is the destiny of Riou and jowy because there are bearers of 27 true runes.
Last time i played the game was long ago but i think the reason why jowy continue the war was that you cant simply retreat once you take charge of the army...expecially after your nation fought years of war to extend the domain of the empire. Thats not how it works...you cant just say "guys that guy is a friend lets go home". I even Seems to remember jowy saying something like "i wish de could go back but its not that simple" or things like that. Also i recall that he accept to join the enemy side because he was sure they were easily going to win the war and by winning it put also an end to it...but then main character does a miracle and lead the resistence....
In the case of Suikoden the importance of destiny is not lazy writing but at the very core of the concept. They're not called the 108 Stars of Destiny for nothing, and there is a strong element of determinism in how these stars follow a set course towards the inevitable. That's why it's poignant when friends like Riou and Jowy fall under stars that set them on the course to kill each other. Of course there's also a small chance of defying or altering destiny by gathering all 108 Stars. Regardless, destiny is such an important aspect of Suikoden's world building and this makes it very different from those stories where destiny is thrown in as a lazy plot device when needed. This holds true for the first Suikoden as well, where the star Tir is born under makes him end up as the leader of the Liberation Army despite all odds. I agree with the criticism of the new war battle system and I completely agree that the scripted battles are meaningless (Suikoden 3 is even worse in this). Luca should have been developed more in the story to explain how crazy he is (which as you might know comes from seeing his father flee while his mother was raped by city-state soldiers), nevertheless I still find him to be a terrifying villain. When I played through it the first time I assumed it was because of the Beast Rune. Some characters have ridiculous recruitment criteria, but this is true for every Suikoden. I don't think we're really intended to be able to get all 108 characters on a first time blind playthrough. The regular battle system I think is perfect precisely because it's a traditional turn-based system that lets you use 6 characters with up to 3 runes each, which opens up for a lot of strategies. It's especially nice to play these days when more and more JRPGs opt for action-based battle systems. As for the quick time event with Nanami, you could say it was a bad decision to suddenly have something like that at such a crucial moment when there had been no quick time events prior, but you could just as well say it was a clever design choice for the very same reason. You're supposed to be caught unawares and you're not necessarily supposed to be able to save Nanami, but perhaps you'd remember it for a second playthrough and save her then (which is what I did, and thus experienced two different outcomes). Finally I'm surprised you didn't mention the worst aspect of the game which even the most hardcore fans would agree is bad: the localization.
I don't know what the original was supposed to sound like since I don't speak Japanese, so I can't speak much to the localization. There were some typos and awkward sentences, but those don't bother me.
@@Cannotbetamed1 There are plenty of typos and awkward sentences, but the worst examples are found in some NPC dialogue that makes no sense. Not unusual for its time though. A few months after Suikoden 2 was released FF8 was the first JRPG to receive a truly quality-tested translation.
Good and thorough review! Your complaints about Luca Blight though are exactly why Suikoden II fans insist he's one of the best video game villains. When with so many others their villainy is just all talk (like Bowser and Robotnik, or even Castlevania's Dracula most of the time) or have 'sympathetic' backstories that don't quite work (like Sephiroth and his mommy issues), it's just refreshing to see someone who is absolutely, irredeemably evil and ravages everything in his path.
Good review. I agree with you completely in that I found Suikoden 1 much more enjoyable. The story in 2 is more complex and it had some nice upgrades gameplay wise and better character design / portrait art, but I found the first one to be a smoother game with a more focused storyline. I also tended to like the characters in 1 better and didn't mind the forced party members as much. If you haven't already, I recommend playing through 1 again and getting all 108 SoD. There's a nice story twist I think you'll appreciate a lot if you get all of them before invading Gregminster.
I thought Jowy's actions were believable because it had to do with his cynicism that turned him to the might makes right route. Like you said in the video, it contrasts the hero's efforts to reason with nations and unite people. Jowy felt like tyranny was constantly getting victory and resigned himself that he simply must become the new tyrant to bring peace, and what's more he totally anticipated the hero's response to him. Jowy's character is nothing new. Delita in Final Fantasy Tactics had a similar arc as someone poor and defeated who decided to turn to tyranny because of it getting ingrained that that's the only way that actually manages to win out. But Jowy's character was extremely smart and sympathetic, the most incredibly human portrayal of this kind of character that I've ever seen.
Let us not forget the driving influence of both the Black Sword and Bright Shield. It's bearers are destined to fight each other, so Jowy removing Luca, might be his original and only intention to simply put an end to the ongoing war. But as his plans progress, and seeing how far he had ascended, also realizing his new found responsibility over his own nation. All that combined with Black Swords influence. He felt obliged to continue the struggle. It may seem very stupid for the war to rage on after Luca, but it made sense given the nature of the 2 pieces of the Rune of Beginning. Also, let us not forget that Jowy and Riou Technically grew up as Highlanders, so Jowy fighting for Highland only made sense. Speaking of the Rune's influence, we can also see this with Riou when he (we) decided to totally conquer Highland instead of offering peace especially when we had the upper hand to demand the terms of their surrender.
Nice review, Pam! I played the first Suikoden several years ago and really loved it, and it's one of my favorite PS1 games. I played Suikoden II for the first time last summer and also thought it was inferior to the first. I still enjoyed it and thought it was a good game, just didn't quite hit the same mark as the first in my opinion. I thought it was just me for a while, but it seems there are others who feel the same way. You did a great job articulating the differences between them, and I agree with many of your points here.
Getting this game for Christmas at the tender age of 13 was the best thing ever. It's still one of my favourite games for many reasons, quite a few of those are points of criticism you had with the game. But it's absolutely possible that these things will have a different kind of impact on the player depending on your age. What I absolutely agree with, however, is that no one should skip the first game. Suikoden I and II were always a type of "package" to me. The character cameos and story are much more intertwined than other games in the series are. Also, the additional extras you get for importing your savegame from Suikoden I are so bittersweet that these scenes still tug at my heart. Tir McDohl is my favourite silent protagonist ever, there's just something about him and his story that lend him a lot of expression, even though he only says a few lines in the game. Concerning Jowy, that's something I disagree with. There are moments throughout the game, where he drops some lines which already sound very suspect and foreshadow that his views may collide with Riou ostensibly sooner than later. It reminds me of the various leaders of each nation disagreeing with each other, only on a much more personal scale. Luca is a throwaway antagonist really, and the Nanami thing is probably something meant for a second playthrough, similar to Gremio from the first game. Aside from the correct "quick time" choice you also need to reach a certain level of defense stat with her if I remember correctly, and no one will get the 108 stars blind on a first playthrough. But I can see where you're coming from and everyone who's giving this series a chance these days has my thanks. Suikoden is really special to me and you did a great job of diving into it.
I have always had a massive soft spot for the first Suikoden, so this is nice to see. Suikoden 2 is my favourite, but Suikoden 1 does have a certain charm all of its own. I can't really describe it, but it's definitely there.
@@Cannotbetamed1 "Concise" is typically not what everyone looks for in a jrpg, but I prefer 5 anyway. And it still makes me laugh that I was convinced that the Prince was a Princess up until I started the game xD
@@camendiv I agree with you concise is not what most people search in JRPG. I love Suikoden II and Suikoden V due to very strong story line, I don't like Suikoden I that much because when I played it, I played II first. So I feel that the graphic of Suikoden I is very terrible. But anyway, I respect her opinion...
I love Suikoden 1 with a passion. I like Suikoden 2 but I don't like the characters as much esp the main characters and the soundtrack to Suikoden 1 is superior in every way
@Marcus Black are the last of us 2 fans as annoying as its haters? They seem to pop up everywhere to shit talk it. I’ve never played or talked about the game in a video yet I still have received many comments about it how bad it is.
Great review! I have differing opinions myself but you back up your opinion well :) I beat this game and suikoden 1 for the very first time this year and Personally I felt one was very slow and difficult to see through but I had a ton of fun with this one. The large scale battles were a drag I agree but the rest I pretty much loved. :) Luca making the girl crawl like a piggy was actually shocking to me. Humiliating the girl and making her cast aside her diginity before delivering a death blow. I thought that was shocking as opposed to silly. Keep it up. Loving your uploads :)
Most of the "negative" things mentioned are completely optional and more of a second play-through thing. Some of the comments were just erroneous. Flik and viktor weren't assumed dead in S1 for example. She makes it seem like you "must" collect the very optional & additional squirrels. Or that you must play the mini games in the castle. Anyway, thanks for reviewing it, just have to disagree entirely.
Viktor and Flik stay behind in the castle to fight off enemies, then the castle crumbles and they are not seen again. Don't know why I wouldn't presume they were dead. I didn't suggest you "must" do anything.
I've always intended to finally get back to this one, as I thought Suikoden 1 was 'fine', but I was also a lot more tolerant of JRPG nonsense (almost exactly the term I use myself) back in the PS1 era. Thanks for maybe the only critical review of this game I've ever heard
@@Gio-ym4uj oh thanks for the tip! Definitely curious. I don't think any suikoden game following S2 even held a candle to it. (Except for maybe suikoden on DS)
Wow I think Suikoden On the DS is the worst of all of them and is missing the elements that make it a Suikoden game. I like them all but for me it would be 2,1,3,5,4, Tactics then Teikeries Soon we get Eiyuden Chronicles though which is made to be similar to 2 with characters, city building cooking battle and etc
@@oslowilde6961 Iguess i'm the only one who place suiko 1 in the last place xD...my list would be: 2 (of course, duh), 5, 4, tactics, 3, 1 and...tierkreis. I place 1 at the last but i liked it anyways, and i really love the story of 4 despites the flaws in the game. But tierkreis...man, that game is horrible as a suikoden game, doesn't deserve to have a suikoden name on it xD...and here i am wishing i could play suikoden Tsumugareshi Hyakunen no Toki for the psp but no realiable english patch yet T.T
It's nice to see your footage using the original aspect ratio. One thing about the things that are annoying now, like finding all 108 stars, were a positive in the 90s when a few games were all you had and a complicated optional scavenger hunt was welcome
You can choose to run away ? Sorry, but I just can't help thinking about Monty Python and The Holy Grail. "Run awaaaay"!! Merry Christmas to you, Pam. Have a great 2021.
It's ok that you rate Suikoden II different than most. You did a great job explaining why. You're entitled to your opinion. The series is still in my backlog, so I'll look forward to my own take on the series as well.
I remember playing suikoden 2 just after finishing the first one and even though I had some gripes with the first one (mainly random encounter rate being high and the encounters being rather boring) it just held my attention for enough time to finish it. Suikoden 2 just didn't hold me for long. I was taken aback because people said it was one of the best jrpgs of all time but I couldn't see what was there to love so much. Really glad reviews like this exist.
Well met, Lily☆ Army! I totally relate with the army battles. I hated that they were so drawn out and mostly entirely luck based, despite your best efforts to make strong units. The sad thing about Luca Blight is that his motivations are locked behind media that was never localized for a western audience; The books and manga. I loved seeing your perspective on the game. Whilst I enjoyed the game as a kid myself, I found myself bothered by multiple things when I was replaying it for my channel, so I can totally see where you're coming from.
I really think the army battles are the biggest offender for me not enjoying the game as much. They're just so slow and often have a few of them back to back. Going through my game footage while editing I could see how much time they took up. Having information relevant to a game available outside of it is a big pet peeve.
I first played Suikoden 2, and later played 1. I preferred Suikoden 2, but mostly for some of the peripheral things like the cooking minigame and such. I agree that it is drawn out at times, and I definitely didn't pursue ALL the collectibles and such, but it edges out Suikoden 1 as my favorite of the series. I can see why someone might prefer the first though. As long as you don't end up saying Suikoden 3 is better than 1/2, we're still friends. XD
Man your reviews are getting better and better.... And I admit it, I would be one of the persons who would claim that S2 is an improvement to S1. The main reason for this is, from a technical POV it enhances a lot of things to S1. Yet, I do agree with you, S1 has much more heart and soul(rune :p). I love the story and I love the sieges in S1 even if they were not as "tactical" as in S2 but the moments when you start to outnumber your opponents and the victory theme begins to play or moments like Gremios dead or detecting opponent leaders are controlled by an evil rune and a lot of lovable characters let S1 outshine S2. So why do I still recommend S2 over S1? I also played both games after like 15-20 years of absence and when I played the beginning of S1, I realized, S1 did not aged well. S1 is very slow paced until you are getting to the highlights I mentioned before. In S2 the plot reaches you much quicker, combat and inventory are improved, content is bigger. Also S2, has its moments, when the dogs think you are using them as meat-shields or when chasing that little brat in the bat village and you already mentioned Nanami. So I would go the other way round and say, for people who have no nostalgia, should first play S2 and play S1 afterwards. That's just my opinion on Suikoden 1+2 😊 Both games are great and thank you so much for making videos like this and share them with us. Merry Christmas and happy holidays to everybody. 🎄🎁
I respect anyone willing to put forward an opinion that dissents form the majority in game analysis. It helps keep all of our perspectives balanced and grounded. Prevents hype from blinding us to the potential faults of popular games. I think the choice to use a tactical grid-based system for the massive battles sounds like a dubious choice if the entire game isn't committed to that battle system, like in Fire Emblem or Disgaea. A partially-executed shallow tactical battle system may be best left simplified as you point out for the first game's massive battles. I have been exploring the PS1's JRPGs for a while, but haven't gotten to Suikoden games yet. The price of Suikoden II alone is enough to keep me from being able to play it.
I’ve actually never played the Suikoden series. But I’m willing to give them a shot. Thanks for the video Pam! Merry Christmas, Pam 🎄🎄❄️❄️☃️☃️⭐️⭐️ and a Happy New Year! 🎆🎈🎊
I beat Suikoden 2 about 9 times, Suikoden 1 about 8 times, Suikoden 3 about 6 times, Suikoden 4 about 4 times and Suikoden 5 about 2 or 3 times. I have to say you are highly mistaken. Suikoden 2 is the best out of the entire series. The emotional drama, the political dynamic, the returning characters and the badass Luca Blight. The first one was good, but this one takes it to a whole new level.
I beat Suikoden 2 about 10 times, Suikoden 1 about 12 times, Suikoden 3, 3 times, 4 and 5 once and 1 is the best in the series to me but its close as its so short and graphically (actual graphics and game engine) worse. 2 just kept going back and forth until all of a sudden the hero's army just kept winning for no real reason. There was just to many plot twists that it suffered on replays for me (which sounds crazy considering the amount of times I played it) I just felt like each playthrough felt less enjoyable whist 1 only dropped a little to me.
Always enjoy your reviews! Have you tried Metal Saga for the PS2? (open world post apocalyptic turn based rpg with fully customizable tanks and a dog that you can put a bazooka on)
@@Cannotbetamed1 While the Metal Max/Metal Saga series has only seen two official localizations in our part of the world, the series itself has a kind of humorous charm and uses tanks (and trying to recruit the dog into the party) as a means of luring the player through the 'slog' of the usual level grinding. Having enough mosquito spray when staying at makeshift "inns" setup in broken down buildings, knowing when to use the tanks (if you've found any) or hoof it on foot, and choosing what party members you want to recruit to explore the expanse of the wasteland while hunting bounties are all part of its charm. As one of the few fans of the series in the West, I can confidently say that it isn't for everyone, but it may be worth a try! (Plus, new sealed copies are cheap right now despite pandemic pricing on old games)
The experience I had with the squirrels was quite pleasant: Have Stallion in your party and no one else besides him, then run back and forth on the paths between towns. If you don’t get the squirrel, step into the town and then return to the world map. If you already got Mukumuku in Kyaro, in the following order: run on the path between Two River and Greenhill to get Makumaku, then between Forest Village and Greenhill to get Mikimiku, then between Matilda Border and Greenhill for Mekumeku, then run around the forest clearing just south of Forest Village for Mokumoku. Whenever you think it’s taking too long to get the squirrels, get into a town and come back out to try again. I got all the squirrels in less than 15 minutes
Thank you very much for an honest review, its important to call out the negatives of a game along side with the positives, especially when its about a sequel from a previous installment that was already a great game and thus it should be expected to improve everything about the first.
There is a visual novel released in Japan for the PS1 called Genso Suikogaiden Vol. 1: Swordsman of Harmonia (translated from Japanese) that gives a bit more detail on the events of Suikoden 2. It follows the story of Nash (who later becomes a Star of Destiny in Suikoden 3 along with Sasarai), a spy sent from Harmonia to learn about the True Runes. It's apparently set during the events of Suikoden 2. You'll also find out a bit more about Jowy's motives and other key events of Suikoden 2, as well as how Nash and Sierra became hitched. (Sierra was the "missus" that Nash was referring to in Suiko 3). IIRC, there's a translated version floating along somewhere in the internet. If you have time, please take a look at that! It's quite interesting. EDIT: There's also a Vol. 2, taking place 3 months after Suikoden 2. Very intersting.
I find myself wanting to recommend "Lufia II: Rise of the Sinistrals" for the SNES. It's still, to this day, one of my favorite games of all time. While technically a sequel, it's the prequel to to first Lufia game, so playing the first isn't necessary. In fact, I've never played more than a little of the first one because of how awful that one is. While mostly a traditional RPG, there are no random battles inside dungeons like the FF series; random battles only exist on the overworld. All the enemies are plainly visible outside of combat, and you have out-of-combat items that can affect them (that plays into some puzzles, too). I love the characters, story, combat... just everything. And I personally don't think it's got too much of typical JRPG nonsense. I don't think it's one of the BIG SNES games, either, so if this sounds like it's up your alley (and you actually see this comment), give it a shot. I hope it's one you'd like. Edit: If you DO play this game, there is one dungeon in the middle of the game that's a little difficult (mostly just the boss, really), and two VERY difficult puzzles in the same dungeon at the end of the game; without spoilers (I hope), just remember the grass puzzle and bomb puzzle on Dragon Mountain. I HIGH recommend a walkthrough for the two of them, as they're progress-halting difficult.
I wish the games would get released so that I could buy them. I kind of want Pam to play one so that she could appreciate 2 more, though the first one may turn her off of the series.
@@KK_183 It'd be dope if they did, like, a Lufia master pack with all the games like they recently did with the FF Legends games (or w/e that series is called).
Nice review! I kind of enjoyed Suikoden 2 a lot, but I'm also not tolerant of the grindy aspect JRPGs usually have. Nowadays I shamelessly just cheat the numbers whenever I realize I'm in for a hours-long repetitive activity. Playing MMOs for years really traumatized me when it comes to grinding. I love long games provided they don't extend it artificially with grindy activities, and since I cheated out on some of the most annoying things, I enjoyed the pace overall. But the random things you practically have to read before playing in order to acomplish is a downer for me too, although that's another thing that usually comes with JRPGs. This game has some strange elements that sets it apart though, like the possibility of saving Nanami, running away in the middle of the game, bringing about an abrupt but fitting end; or giving up running away after making the decision, which leads to a major character death and his substitution by his son. I was quite surprised by this, that's not something I've seen executed in a JRPG before. Lots of things to do around the castle, I just loved seeing it grow. Too bad there are so many characters, because of that almost none of them could be properly flashed out. I read about every major thing I had to do in order to get the best ending as I played the game, so after I was finished it didn't leave a sour taste. I've never played the 1st Suikoden nor the ones made after 2, I wonder how they hold up. I'm gonna use the ps2 emulator when I get a pc to play 3, 4 and 5.
I do like that you can run away in the middle of the game, I didn’t find out until I read about it after I had finished though. Nanami did not die in my game but I don’t know what I did to save her.
@@Cannotbetamed1 I think there are two requirements to save her, one being a quest or something (I forgot) and the other is clicking fast in that moment. Maybe just doing the first is enough. I hadn't read about the possibility of running away when Nanami approached me with the suggestion. I accepted just for the lols (because such options never really lead to anything but comedic comments in JRPGs) and suddenly a chain of events started and I was like "WTF!!". I was asked to give up running away a couple of times during the escape with some responsability-themed conversations, and was just declining to see where that would lead and was so surprised it eventually ended the game (after a bittersweet scene, where even Nanami seemed to have regretted suggesting running away). I'm glad I had a save before taking that decision though, I felt HORRIBLE about the character's death :P the game really punches you in that event and it kinda made me care more about the whole plot from that moment on.
Suikoden 2 is one of my fave JRPGs of all time, but I can admit it had issues. The army battles were dumb, and that translation was just pretty bad.. And the first one is great, so if you preferred that one, more power to you! I'd be interested to see if you continue this series, since I feel like 3 was pretty different, 4 was...well it was something, and 5 goes back to feeling more like 1 and 2.
Suikoden 3 only had one character which I found odd to recruit (in the way that it was not obvious from talking to them). And I really enjoyed the Triple Sight system.
@@whahala555 I liked the triple sight system too. But I did find replaying the same areas over to be a little tedious. 3 does have some amazing characters though.
I think I have four of the first five digitally and I definitely plan to play through them at some point and now I will play them from beginning to end as you suggest
Do you always dislike purely evil villains? There are people like Luca that existed in history, like Ivan the terrible and Vlad the Impaler. I played some of the first game but found it hard to get into. I wasn’t sure whether I should skip to this game or play the first first, but I think you’ve convinced to do the latter if I do ever play them.
@@gilgamesh310 Those two are not even close to being genocidal, though. Ivan the Terrible is a mistranslated title anyway, just like Aethelraed the Unready.
Sorry for the OT comment, but every video I see the box for Blade Runner in the background. It's one of my favorite adventure games; plan on doing a review any time soon? It'd fit right in with the whole cyberpunk craze right now....
I'm not sure if you drew inspiration from the artwork, but your makeup is stunning. Merry Christmas to you and I will certainly give the first game a chance, thanks for the heads up. P.S. 6 character parties are the kind everyone recommends these days 👀 Edit: Braveheart much? 14:00
Nice to see an opinion not complimenting the game to death. I have not finished Suiko 2 but I thought it was pretty good when I played it a few years ago. Now I'm curious to continue to find those bugs haha. And those lil squirrels are cute af.
This reminds me of when I played FF7 after hearing how praised it was, but honestly it was just okay to me because it’s story and characters were just all over the place. In that era, FF9 honestly took the trophy for me. While Suikoden II is my current favorite, I honestly can’t disagree with this review and appreciate people that experience JRPGs without rose tinted glasses. I can’t wait to go through and check out your other content!
Hey I’ve always really loved the first one too ! For me one and two are tied, and I really enjoyed five but I never beat it when I played it in 2006- I finally am gonna beat that one though because I started another playthrough a week ago or so and have been playing consistently. S1 is great I always find it weird how much better everyone thinks number two is, for me they’re both equally good
@@Cannotbetamed1 I think this was a common occurrence for a lot of these great RPGs of the 90s. There were so many good ones, being released to an English speaking audience that still wasn't particularly aware or appreciative of them in large numbers, that those of us were into them just picked them up when we saw them without any prior knowledge or hype of any kind, for the most part. That was Suikoden 1, Persona 1, and many others for me outside of the big PR/Marketed Squaresoft games. Some were forgettable, but some were really amazing and and made years/decades-long impressions, even though I didn't know a single other person in person who had played some of the less popular ones, at the time!
I really enjoy the presentation of older games, although I didn´t play rpg back then :D thanks alot! (Your upper eye lids are turning into hulk upper eye lids...btw)
I love Suikoden I it's one of my favorite games of all time and probably the game I beat the most with Chrono Trigger (3x maybe 4). Oddly I could never get into the second one and never beat it. It's on my to-do list though, I'm waiting for the remasters to come out and I will finally knock that one off my check list.
@@Cannotbetamed1 The event was one of several (admittedly silly) requirements for the ending; it wasn't so much about her living/dying. Valkyrie Profile takes the crown for the stupidest true ending requirements, but this was in that cohort of games that hid their great endings and offered bland regular ones. I guess everyone at the time wanted to follow the lead of Chrono Trigger.
@@Cannotbetamed1 This is super late, but yes (and if you are playing blind, it's fairly likely she will die). I don't think it matters which option you pick, but if you do not respond then the text box just vanishes on its own, and she wasn't "faking" her death (ie the doctor really couldn't save her). Also, oddly, she has to have a certain amount of Defense (121, IIRC) to survive as well, but the number is fairly low and you are unlikely to be below this number unless you unequipped her or something. You also have to have all 108 stars by the time that scene occurs for her to remain alive, as well. Miss any of those things (respond fast enough, less than 121 DEF, and don't have all 108 stars) and she's dead for real.
as a patient gamer who doesn't play games until well after their expiration date i've been asking lately "when does a game stop being good?" the obvious answer should be never yet as i catch up on older, higher rated games i find they just don't hold us as well today. one of the common responses i see is "well it was good when i played it" which speaks volumes to me. this holds true especially with older rpgs and while i appreciate the speed-up feature of recent remakes it doesnt change the core gameplay. i'm finding the same holds true to games i loved playing as a kid such as breath of fire 3 and final fantasy 7 on the original playstation.
There are a lot of games I loved as a kid where I now can't get past how much time they waste or how grindy they feel. And many games I know I wouldn't enjoy playing for the first time now, but I remember the secrets and how to get by the tough parts from when I first played.
Going to have to disagree on this one, although the first is great , the 2nd is just more polished and better overall, i'm pretty sure the creators said the 2nd one is what they originally wanted in the first game as well.
I love S2, but the tactical battles do suck ass. Easily the worst in the series. As for Jowy's motivations: They may not have done a great job exploring them, but it was more than just destiny. He was convinced that the strong hand of the Highland Kingdom was needed in order to uphold peace, something which Riou's band of outlaws wouldn't be able to ensure.
Don't forget from the Highland POV City-State is the one that break the peace treaty by killing the young unicorn brigade and from the flashback we saw that City-state is the evil one so it would be hard for Jowy (newly appointed king with no blood of royalty) to make another peace treaty with City-state when his people of Highland still hate the City-state.
@@Cannotbetamed1 you didn't buy jowy reasoning but buy Tir (S1 MC) reason for becoming the liberation army leader? He became the leader because Mathiu said "I believe that what odessa want"
@@Cannotbetamed1 if they capable to be become leader why not? In Suikoden 2 it's make sense because the MC is the adopted son of City-state hero and have the same rune as him so he can be a symbol of new hero and he the one that make General Solon Jhee retreat while outnumbered while in Suikoden 1 Tir didn't accomplice anything big for liberation army yet he bacame a leader
You make pretty good points. I definitely played it fifteen years ago when I was a teenager so I definitely viewed through the shades of edgy emotion and would have to replay it to get a better perspective. So my apologizes about my overglowing recommendation! It's like listening to that really cool band you liked when you were in high school but you listen to them in your 30s and you're really confused on why you really liked them so much in the first place.
Ooof, this hurts me to hear that you didn't like this game. But you know what? It's alright! If you don't like it, I ain't gonna lose sleep over it. I appreciate your honesty. Now for your gripes, I can see how you thought Luca Blight seemed silly. I, however, rightfully hate this monster for wanting kill b/c he revels in it. And I liked the plot twists and Nanami's moment. This game is one my favorite games of all time, but this is my 2nd favorite RPG, next to Chrono Trigger. I appreciate your opinion, though I humbly and respectfully disagree.
While I really like Suikoden 2 a lot, and it has some of my favorite moments in the series...there are some valid criticisms here. Honestly, I think that Suikoden 2, 3 and 5 are all great, and that 1, 4, and Tactics are still pretty good. Suikoden 3 has the best war battles in the series IMO. To me, the Riou/Jowy destined to fight thing is best explained by the influence of the two halves of the Rune of Beginning. As Riou, you can decide whether to say things to resist fighting Jowy or not, but Jowy as an NPC seems to struggle with fighting off its influence for various reasons. Four of the five main series games (all but 3) really demonstrate that bearing a True Rune (or piece of one) is often more tragic than "cool," as they sort of have wills of their own that don't always line up with what you want.
''With a great power comes a great responsibility''...they really took the responsibility part to another level xD... Rune of Punishment and Soul Eater: ''I confirm'' :V
Are you interested in the upcoming eiyuden chronically the original writers are coming out with? I still love jrpgs for the crazy but more involved stories and the graphic art style looks amazing so here's to hoping the story is too
I was ready to hate this video but your points are actually really good and I respect it. While I think S2 is the best personally, S1 is pretty much right there with it. I love the whole series more than any other 😆 Great video!
You have a major case for best active videogame reviewer, and this vid is good grounds for that. Yours is the only real review of this game as far as I know. Most "reviews" of Suikoden II amount to the person saying "Yo guys, this game is totally awesome! Go buy it!". You're one of only a handful who notice and mention features that can sway a person toward or away from the game. A reviewer is supposed to tell people whether they would like a game if they played it. I haven't played Suikoden II, but it was high on my bucket list. I've now removed it entirely, since you mentioned two features that are prime deal-breakers for me.
The "Iron Chef" like cooking minigame is the best mini game of any RPG I've ever played. I cannot be objective about this game since I played it as a teen when it first came out, so it will always be special to me. I can understand why it wouldn't be great for everyone. Also, if you get the good ending and save a certain someone it's one of the most enjoyable endings to a video game imo.
I do enjoy Suikoden 2 a whole lot but it too isn’t my top game in the series. 3 is my absolute favorite and I find myself replaying 1 and 3 the most. I avoid doing reruns sometimes on 2 and 5 just because their pacing is all over the place. I know some people say Suikoden 3 is so slow and boring but I view it as being a slow burn and it kicks up into high gear and rarely lets go once you finish the first 3 chapters for the trinity sight system! Fantastic review and very different since its rare to hear that 2 isn’t the best or most favorite in the entire series. Thankfully all Suikoden titles are all worth playing at least twice even IV which is the black sheep of the series. Suikoden at its worst is just actually a fun quick JRPG to play with a few flaws.
Waited for this for 9 months (When Suikoden 1 review was added). Saw that the video title leaned heavily towards being almost clickbait'y. I thought of 'The Office' clip of Michael yelling "No. No. Please, God. No". This is basically the entire reason I subbed here originally; waiting around from the Suikoden 1 review until the Suikoden 2 review. Let's do this! (^_^) So we (you) begin talking about the variety of mini games, items, and things to do. These are nearly the exact same things that you mentioned in the 'Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night' review. Cooking minigame, crafting, growing your own food, playing dress up. Now I need to go back and see how you felt about it there. "You want crafting and food recipes? You've got 'em". "Honestly, it's a lot. but while I feel some of these features could have been safely left out of the game, they don't take away from how much fun the combat and exploration are". Fair enough. Seems like that line from your Bloodstained review can be applicable to both Bloodstained and Suikoden 2. 8:00 "I don't want to make it sound like this is all bad..." Me: What??? Those were the complaints? Whew! You had been stating positive things up until that point for the most part, I thought. Variety of things to do. Game length / playtime longer than the previous game (happens pretty always in sequels). Random battles look nice and aren't as simple/easy as previous random battles. More inventory and item descriptions are a thing now. That's better as well. You're right in that the war battles are clunky and mostly scripted to end one way. To be fair, Suikoden 1's war battles were fairly easy (if not reliant on being lucky with the rock-paper-scissors style). The story aspects with the generic star-crossed friends trope and your complaint about Luca being evil just for evil's sake are fine takes to have too. There isn't much explanation as to why he is psycho. Bad childhood? Mental illness? Mercury poisoning? Who knows? Oh, and yeah. The bugs do break some things in the game; especially for those interested in 100% completion runs. Okay. After completing the video, yeah. The title really doesn't say it is a bad game so I can't fault you there. It does seem like mild clickbait, but this is youtube so it's all about the title, views, metrics, and thumbnail. It is your channel so you could have called it whatever you want. You could have named the video the superior video title I just thought up: "Suikoden 2: Poo-poo-head game". Even if you mildly smiled at that, this whole thing was worth it. Thank you for the review. This was from that golden period of PS1 where Konami spit out 'Castlevania: Symphony of the Night' and 'Suikoden 2' both of which have such glorious sprite work, gameplay, and music. I have fond memories of snagging Suikoden 2 when I was at an Electrionics Boutique picking up my Final Fantasy 8 preorder. Suikoden 2 was picked up on a whim because it was sitting at the checkout with a pile of its strategy guides. I ended up liking Suikoden 2 SOOOO much more than Final Fantasy 8, too, so that's my little Suikoden 2 story. Final thoughts/comments: The best part(s) of Suikoden 2 is that even if you don't like it as much as the original, the fact that the sequel exists doesn't take away from the original. To me, they feel like two parts of the same game/experience. It reminds me of people disliking the Final Fantasy VII Remake. Just because the new one exists, nothing is taken away from the original existing or stopping you from playing it. Thank you for reading my wall-of-text review of your review. Sorry for it becoming a wall of text, but you knew some people were going to have lots to say so you were not going into this being surprised. I'm glad that I found your channel and whew! Suikoden 2 is behind us, finally!
I'm glad you found the review fair and hope it was worth the wait. The first two games do kind of feel like part of the same experience. There's so much overlap in the characters and mechanics. I'm looking forward to seeing how 3 changes things up in another 9 months or a year.
I have to agree with your assessment. I preferred the first suikoden over the 2nd. The large grid battles were obnoxious and acquiring characters was too much of a chore. Suikoden 1 was sweet and to the point.
I agree with you. I think my favorite is the first one, although I believe Suikoden is an awesome game if it is considered as a whole franchise (in itself); not any Suikoden game is actually a full-fledged game, but most of them are just very good games, which when added altogether (at least the main games, not necessarily counting spin-offs etc...) become then yes a spectacular RPG franchise.
You know it's going to be a good video when pam is going to rustle some jimmies. My wife is the biggest suikoden fan that I personally know of and even though I've only ever played the first suikoden game I'm pretty knowledgeable on the series because I've watched my wife play through them all. You do make a really good point Pam, the fact that you played and beaten the game beyond the time it was actually released and you were already well aware of some of the tropes and game design choices that many jrpg's had, it has probably not necessarily made you jaded but it's certainly made you aware of lazy writing, generic plots, lackluster villains and poor design/gameplay choices. My wife does consider Suikoden 2 her second favorite suikoden game of the series, but she considers Suikoden 5 as her personal favorite so I'm kind of curious to see what your thoughts are on the other entries. Suikoden 3 has one of the biggest wtf/plot twist moments of the entire series (I'm not going to spoil it for you), Suikoden 4 is pretty much universally hated for pretty much the same reason which I'm sure you'll figure out right quick, and Suikoden 5 does have a really dedicated following but people really hate the high encounter rate and loading times everywhere. Personally from my experience a lot of the acclaim for Suikoden 2 comes from the villain. I often see people consider Luca Blight as one of the most evil villains in jrpg history but I respectfully disagree on that front. Regardless of how people perceive the game, most people who have played the game got their enjoyment out of it and even though it didn't meet your expectations, you still gave it a fair try and in hindsight that is the best anybody could ever ask for.
There's a glitch in the game that allows you to push a locked gate giving you access to an area with much stronger enemies that can level you up much higher than what you are supposed to be at at that point in the game...making the rest of the game a breeze.
Even the best games have some bugs, but this one admittedly had quite a few. I know it's no excuse for the game's original state, but if they bother you it's possible to fix them; (not on original hardware obviously.) Just search "Suikoden II Bug Fix Patch" and you'll find it.
I am not biased. All my life playing JRPG. Suikoden 2 is the best so far. In fact, until now. Btw some of your negative point is... Unreasonable? well we have different opinion.
I recently picked up FF7 on my Switch, and I’d love to see you review that (and other old FF games) Your takes are always so interesting and different and I really like having your point of view on games, especially ones that everyone else seems to love. Also I want to know how much of FF7 is old video game/JRPG nonsense or if I’m just too picky in my dislike of the item menus and all the steps I have to go about if I want to switch materia between characters.
Admittedly, those menus (and probably the ones in other Final Fantasy games as well) and dealing with materia can be potentially tedious, but tedium can be worth dealing with if the game is enjoyable enough.
it is. getting the recipes to use for it was rather annoying, tho. figuring out which ones to keep in ur party (lest you lock out the enemy drop ones) was really a Guide Dang It moment.
In 2001-2002 i run and call all shops of my large area (100 kilometers around my village) , and finally after 6 months one shop has ONE Suikoden 2 !! I buy it between one bus and one train in a little city of France haha. And i finish it at 110% !! I always had my personal made soluce in my archives.... And trust me, before internet boom, it was some kind of rich thing )) . I will put it on internet one day !
Agreed. I liked Suikoden 2 a lot but the improvements didn't make up for the significantly longer intro and how obscure some of the stars were. I love the whole franchise through and through but the first one was my favorite.
I thought one was a way worse offender of obscure stars, just based off Clive, Crowley and window alone. At least 2 give you Richmond to help. Overall I like to think of both games as a package deal as 2 seems to expound on the greatness of 1 to me.
I really love Suikoden 2, but I do agree with you in liking the first one more. In some way it felt more mature? But I also think it has to do with the fact it was the first one I pick up as a kid and made me fall in love with j-rpgs and have good memories because of it. I do have to say that the PAL version did not have the glitches and the music buggs wich makes a whole lot of differents! thank you for daring to be critical about such a loved game.
Totally agree with this review. I've replayed Suikoden 1 and 2 recently and I think that the second game is super overrated. It surpises me that ppl even think that Suikoden 2 has one of the best stories ever... IMO it was way too cliché, nonsensical and badly translated to take it seriously. Also, I felt that it had too much filler content and backtracking. I prefer the fist game over the second one too!
Finally somebody that agree's with me on Suikoden 1 vs 2. Yes I enjoy both games, but Suikoden 1 story had way more emotion towards the characters. It was an epic story, and Suikoden 1 had better music ! Believe me Suikoden 2 is still an all-time-great, but dang people are sleeping on Suikoden 1. (I have not played Suikoden 3 or 4 yet so I can't speak on them). In my honest opinion the people who love 2 best.....played 2 before 1, or never played 1. If you play 1 first, you get nostalgia from seeing returning characters. I look at Suikoden 1 and 2 like PB&J, they go together. Some days i want more PB some days I want more Jelly.
I don't really even see how you can like the second game without playing the first one before it. Most of the character development is done in the first game, and it's just building on it in the second. I didn't feel like I got to know any of the new characters. Also, yes, so many more emotional beats in the first game. The second had so many fake outs I just stopped worrying about characters "dying".
I am so glad to finally found someone who thinks that this game is worse than the first. You raised some good points too, and the NA version of this game is definitely not the version anybody should play. Gothic Neclord and Reminiscence are the most overrated Suikoden music ever though. Speaking of the music, this and the third installments have the worst sound quality for its music even for PS1/PS2. Not the compositions, which are great, but how the music sounds. Sometimes I feel like the game sounds like it's torturing some animals instead of playing some brass or strings or flutes. It's a massive drop from the first as that game used a lot of real instrument and voice samples. I feel the same about my tolerance to JRPG stories. Even Xenogears (which for many people holds the best stories ever made for a game) feels like Tetsuya Takahashi just read Kabbalah, Torah, the Old Testament, and Nietzsche's books and decided to mash them with little coherence. Not-so-fun-"fact": Gorudo is most likely a mistranlation of Gordeau (ゴルドー (Gorudoo)), just like Mathiu is most likely supposed to be Matthew (マッシュ (Masshu)).
An example of the first, the difficulty of the game was to get all the allies. I really liked the sound of the city of GREEHILL. (makumaku, mekumeku, mikumiku, mokumoku and mukumuku are one of the most difficult to achieve, they need to appear in battle by stroke of luck)
No they appear in an empty slot in your party when walking g certain specific trails. you know you have succeeded when they appear in battle or when the squirrel shows up in your wait animation.
Never played any of the Suikoden games. Probably too old too enjoy this type of "JRPG Nonsense" as you put it. Good review as always though. Off Topic, but check out Maneater if you haven't yet. Having a great time with it.
"Suikoden 2 - Not the best Suikoden game"
alright, you just crossed the line. Straight to the chopping block.
she didnt understand the game
Is there a way to block a channel? Lol, cause I couldn’t hit the button fast enough on this trash. 😂
@@kellenmims2400 i know is her opinion and HAS to be respected...but i couldn't handle it and just stopped the video after the first 4 minutes. I mean, suikoden 2 is one of the most important gem of the entire rpg...and, worse than suiko 1?...come on...
@@Daniel-Unmeiten Don't care for neither I am just curious where do you people come from and give me reasons why do you believe this to be the best JRPG ever and WHY is it important at all ?!
And before someone asks, I don't have a favorite therefore I wont flex with another title to counter yours, I will simply say that I respect each game for what it is and if it's not interesting and or irrelevant then I will simply avoid it. Claiming one game being the best is just absurd and unrealistic.
But yeah I am waiting for that valid proof and examples. So go on and tell me please maybe I am missing something all these years ....
@@Daniel-Unmeiten Curious. 4.05 is the time of my stoppage.
Love people who have the courage to speak their thoughts, even if they go against the general consensus. Welcome to the club :) Hope you can play Suikoden V one day (if you haven't). It's my favorite in the series, better than 2 in my opinion. I adore 2, like many others, but I do believe it's somewhat overrated nowadays. Also, glad to see some love for the first one; it's truly an underrated gem.
I hope to do through the whole series. I should probably pick up 5 soon before the price gets even more insane.
V is my second favourite in the series, very close behind II.
I’m actually playing/streaming V for the first time(found it for a decent price a couple of years back luckily) now and so far I can definitely see why it’s a favorite of the series. It’s slowly but surely becoming my personal favorite
I had this game years ago when it came out I beat it twice the second time getting every character..... I consider this one of the all-time greats and definitely in my top two favorite games of all time the story is timeless and holds up even today... Years ago I sold the game before I realized it's value and before it's value skyrocketed... This past year I repurchased the game and we all know that isn't cheap these days but it's well worth it!!! Awesome to see someone playing still in 2020... But I have to disagree it's the best suikoden hands down and many people agree..
I have some games I sold that I regret too. Glad you were able to get it back.
Totally agree.
I did the exact same thing. I paid $74 for just the disc. Then another $10 for a repro case and manual.
Suikoden I is the best suikoden
@@usaskjock I do think one is a very good game I just like 2 a little bit more
Suikoden 2 is a masterpiece! One of the best story in a video game, incredible beautiful music! Love this!
Amazing story!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Exactly!! I didn't understand the title of this video
In my opinion, the story of suiko2 is by far the best of all games i've seen and played. Not even chrono trigger, tales of, or ff games can't compete with it
I've been playing so many JRPG games over the many years and Suikoden 2 is the best JRPG game I've ever played.
Suikoden 2 is masterpiece for me. Thta's all.
Yeah it is she is an idiot does not even know what she is talking about
Hi Pam. One of the things that I love about your reviews is the wonderful way that you articulate your thoughts and the way that you edit your videos to support those thoughts. I enjoyed hearing your thoughts on this game.
Thank you!
Exactly my thoughts. Also, just for your knowledge, the translation to Spanish was so bad, sometimes it didn't make sense.
I love this game, and have very fond memories of it, but I agree with you in all your points, save for not caring when Nanami is hit by the arrow 😢
To me, Suikoden 2 is the definition of "It's like the first one, but better!"
Hell, being able to equip 3 runes per character, inventory change and the longer game length alone makes it better. Now obviously I'm sure writing-wise, some of their best ideas from a narrative perspective were used up in the first one and they didn't want to completely retread, but the director was quoted as saying that fans of the first focused on the characters so that was what he had focused on in the second game. A big reason why it's the most popular in the franchise.
To me, a game that focuses on recruiting 108 people SHOULD BE longer. Otherwise, it's just a whole lot of non characterization. Which one can probably argue is kind of the case anyways. Not every character gets much focus. Only a handful like Victor and Flik, etc. Complaining about game length and that a bunch of side stuff you don't even have to do exists is a bit weird to me.
For example, doing Clive's side story means that you HAVE to get through the game basically in 20ish hours. If it took you 40, it means you were really going out of your way to collect every little thing that had no bearing on anything. The only flying squirrel that was a star of destiny, you get at the very beginning of the game. Having to win that card matching game in a certain amount of turns in Suikoden 1 was much more of a hellscape than any recruitment in 2.
To each their own, though. 1, 2 and 5 are all great games.
Hmm, I found 2 was worse on characterization than 1. If I hadn't played 1 I don't think 2 would have let me get to know many of them at all.
@@Cannotbetamed1 I would say there's better characterization between the hero, nanami and jowy, particularly early which is probably a big reason why it takes so long to get the castle and go into gotta catch em all mode. However, again, neither of these two games are given enough time to focus on much of any of the 108 characters while still having functional gameplay. I also feel like the filling up of the castle and its surrounding area had more charm than the first.
5 takes forever to load let alone forest encounters give flashbacks when the slow story doesn't. 1 you can't run unless you have stallion. Remaster will improve but no duel, cooking nor war info sadly.
Obviously video does not like the georg prime memes, which yeah he reappears in 5 for brief times. ua-cam.com/video/ZR8SyQj76mY/v-deo.html
@@Cannotbetamed1 2 had a lot more personality showcased among its sprawling cast than 1 did.
the soundtrack is not bad, but it's not even close to as good as 1. The character art design and especially the 3 main characters aren't as interesting. The army battles are crap and have the music crap out bug. I think the story in both is good but
Really enjoyed this review! Although I disagree with many of your points especially regarding the story. I suppose finding out that Viktor and Flik didn't die left you a bad first impression, and Luca Blight's almost comical evilness made you lost interest to explore the story deeply. Which is too bad, because the rich story and lore is why Suikoden 2 fans love this game!
Some of the important elements of the story are showed in subtle manners, like Luca's motivation, his humanity that he showed before he died, Jowy's desire of power and his arrangements with Leon Silverberg, and many more. When you interpret Jowy's reason for fighting as "because destiny" and called it lazy writing, it broke my heart a little lol. I hope one day you can revisit Suikoden 2 with a new point of view and take your time to dig deeper into its world and characters, and maybe fall in love with this game a little bit harder, like its fans.
I respect your opinion. ^_^
But, if I may explain, Luca Blight's character stuck out to a lot of people not so much for his depth as a character but for what he represented as a concept. Yes, Luca is evil. Ridiculously evil. He's a man driven by hate and rage and vengeance and little else. I agree, he's not very deep. Even taking into account what was implied to have happened to him and his mother. It's when he's explored as a character concept that makes him stand out: in a world with magic, beastmen, runes, and monsters? A single human warrior is, to this day, canonically the strongest being in the Suikoverse. It took sneaky tactics, 3 teams of heroes, several volleys of cutscene arrows, and a duel with The Hero to take him down. All he had was himself. His men were barely a factor. Luca wasn't possessed or the Devil in disguise either: he was a broken child who grew up to be a hateful man who, unfortunately, also just happened to be the mightiest, and most prodigious swordsman his world had ever seen. He's done nothing but train and prepare for the day he sets his fangs on Jowston, prepped and beefed up his then weakened army, basically wresting control over it from his father as crown-prince, and when he did? No one and nothing stood a chance against him. In an open battle, he was unmatched. Hurt him? And he ends up rallying his men or fighting so hard everyone in your army takes damage. To the soldiers fighting with him and watching him work? He must've have been quite a sight. He was partly able to mount the kind of offensive he did because, according to Rowd, Luca was very popular among the men of Highland and his rise as king was seen positively as they were unaware of what he and Jowy did and his cruel nature. Highland mostly didn't know or particularly care. All they knew was that they had a Warrior King who was going to avenge their people. Nothing Jowy did was ever on the scale and speed that Luca did. Jowy was a king of an enemy army, Luca Blight? Was treated more like a force of nature. And all this, again, despite just being a guy with a sword and a horrible agenda. His character design also leads fans to speculate: Luca wears white armor and a blue cape. Colors and affects usually associated with heroes. And yet, he's the villain. It's ironic. People speculate what could have been had Darrel, the old mayor of Muse not ruined him as a boy. Han Cunningham noted Luca's talent as a warrior even before that. While it doesn't excuse or change what he did, people wonder if there was ever a chance or a world where Luca could have been a hero instead? A great king? Or perhaps he was destined for the warpath from the start?
That, I feel, apart from his boss fight is what makes him fun.
You said all the things I was going to say :-D well put. And yes Luca Blight will always stand out in my memories as one of the most iconic villains in turn-based RPG history. You ambush his army, send special hit squads after him, kill his entire honor guard, engage him in THREE, 6 on 1 battles, riddle him with 50+ arrows and he STILL nearly beats your @$$ to a pulp in a one-on-one duel.
Rasputin got nothing on Luca Blight.
Not only is it the best Suikoden game, it’s a strong contender for best JRPG of all time.
Quite a bold claim and huge stretch, people who would say such things clearly speak purely by some mental bias or didn't play games at all, or even worse played but didn't pay any attention, and sadly today most people especially new generations have zero attention span so as bird brains that their memory lasts probably 10 seconds ... I often meeting new people online seen this pattern of incompetence and lack of brain process. We talk about lots of things but all that information goes nowhere. Especially people in the west tend to suffer from mental issues every second person is on some meds and feels like I am talking to myself ...
Person starts a topic (often irrelevant), I join in out of giving it a chance, giving my 2 cents then the person asks me what am I talking about and why are we talking about this ... feels like the next questions could easily be who am I and where are we, like I am talking to a complete senile person that have a complete memory reset every 15 seconds or so ... When I manage to keep a conversation for one minute feels like a miracle.
Person asks me something I answer then the next question is why are we talking about this and why did I "start" this conversation, to which I say you legit asked me not even one minute ago I simply answered your question, they give me a blank expression like I fell from another planet ... Honestly I am sick of it all.
They all flex and have bold claims of things with zero facts or zero common sense but somehow get even insulted when you tell them the truth, seems like even a slight taste of reality puts them into panic mode, and with that said magically demand that someone should take them seriously, gtfo.
@@minmogrovingstrongandhealthywell that was the least intelligent post I read all day.
Better than all ff and personas. Easily top 3.
"more tolerance for JRPG nonsense at 16" had me LOLing probably cause I feel the same way, but just never heard it put that way
There are so many mechanics and cliches in the games that I would have been totally fine with 20 years ago, but now who has time for it?
@@Cannotbetamed1 this got me thinking, I played this when I was 14 and remember it as flawless, gonna have to give it another go to see if nostalgia holds up. One thing is for sure though, Reminiscence is an amazing song, still gives me goosebumps to this day.
@@Cannotbetamed1 amen.
@@Cannotbetamed1 Agreed..I moved on to other things, though it was wonderful for setting the stage for the rest of my life.
@@Cannotbetamed1 One of the strangest bugs I encountered must be during the middle section of the Luca Blight fight. Suddenly the intense battle music was fused with a loud honking nonstop sound. Kept going for several minutes untill it stopped.
Overall a great in depth video :)
Looking forward to more future JRPG videos from you ;)
Funny story from when I played this as a kid, when Ryu and Jowy jumped from the cliff at the beginning I thought I died, so I restarted a few times before I finally sat through the cutscene and the story progressed. Probably did it about 3 or 4 times before figuring it out. Still One of my favorite games of all time, I still haven't played 5 yet so I really need too.
Reminds me when I played Arkham Asylum the first time, and in the last scarecrow sequence I taught the game crashed and I restarted the console....
Suikoden V is an absolute gem as well. I slightly prefer the story of II, but V is an extremely close 2nd. Definitely play it if you get the chance!
@@andyk9735 From what I have gathered its the next best thing. Suikoden II seems to be situational based on when you played it, my memories of Suikoden I are pretty dull but I remember Gremio breaking my heart, the whole series is a gem, I hope to see more of it in the future. V is defiantly a must play at some point for me, I have it, but don't have a PS2 at the moment.
@@sophialovecraft7894 one thing I will say is: it's a very slow burner at the start. It takes around 8 - 10 hours to get going properly, but after that it's 50+ hours of absolute Suikoden / JRPG gold :D
Sopha, I did the same thing with the SNES game "Lufia and the Fortress of Doom."
talking about not understanding why jowy continues to fight the city states while showing footage from the scene where he explains the political and sociological reasons he continues to fight that have been meticulously established since the opening hours of the story
The execution of that didn’t convince me either, though. So I get what she meant when she commented on that part.
@@poyopotpie What did she mean? She said his reasons made no sense, and it was just, "Destiny, I guess?..."
His reasons were very clear and made complete sense, not really sure why she couldn't grasp them.
@@bumblebee2511 She emphasized destiny because there came a point in the game where Jowy, instead of ending the war once Luca Blight was dead and aligning with Riou, cited destiny as his reason for continuing to fight. Think about the events at Rockaxe Castle. Neither Riou nor Nanami wanted to fight Jowy, but Jowy insisted that because their destinies were linked via the two runes, they had to fight.
@@KK_183 I can add a thing. They are guided by Leknaat . This is really a game about destiny, characters is stars of destiny. Han Cunningham and Genkaku tries to avoid destiny but you cant erase the hatred between nations like that. Luca Blight become evil because Han Cunningham and Genkaku avoid the war and Genkaku refuse to fight him in that organized fight.
You need a winner in a war. They have the responsabilities to put an end in that.This is the destiny of Riou and jowy because there are bearers of 27 true runes.
Last time i played the game was long ago but i think the reason why jowy continue the war was that you cant simply retreat once you take charge of the army...expecially after your nation fought years of war to extend the domain of the empire. Thats not how it works...you cant just say "guys that guy is a friend lets go home".
I even Seems to remember jowy saying something like "i wish de could go back but its not that simple" or things like that.
Also i recall that he accept to join the enemy side because he was sure they were easily going to win the war and by winning it put also an end to it...but then main character does a miracle and lead the resistence....
In the case of Suikoden the importance of destiny is not lazy writing but at the very core of the concept. They're not called the 108 Stars of Destiny for nothing, and there is a strong element of determinism in how these stars follow a set course towards the inevitable. That's why it's poignant when friends like Riou and Jowy fall under stars that set them on the course to kill each other. Of course there's also a small chance of defying or altering destiny by gathering all 108 Stars. Regardless, destiny is such an important aspect of Suikoden's world building and this makes it very different from those stories where destiny is thrown in as a lazy plot device when needed. This holds true for the first Suikoden as well, where the star Tir is born under makes him end up as the leader of the Liberation Army despite all odds.
I agree with the criticism of the new war battle system and I completely agree that the scripted battles are meaningless (Suikoden 3 is even worse in this).
Luca should have been developed more in the story to explain how crazy he is (which as you might know comes from seeing his father flee while his mother was raped by city-state soldiers), nevertheless I still find him to be a terrifying villain. When I played through it the first time I assumed it was because of the Beast Rune.
Some characters have ridiculous recruitment criteria, but this is true for every Suikoden. I don't think we're really intended to be able to get all 108 characters on a first time blind playthrough.
The regular battle system I think is perfect precisely because it's a traditional turn-based system that lets you use 6 characters with up to 3 runes each, which opens up for a lot of strategies. It's especially nice to play these days when more and more JRPGs opt for action-based battle systems.
As for the quick time event with Nanami, you could say it was a bad decision to suddenly have something like that at such a crucial moment when there had been no quick time events prior, but you could just as well say it was a clever design choice for the very same reason. You're supposed to be caught unawares and you're not necessarily supposed to be able to save Nanami, but perhaps you'd remember it for a second playthrough and save her then (which is what I did, and thus experienced two different outcomes).
Finally I'm surprised you didn't mention the worst aspect of the game which even the most hardcore fans would agree is bad: the localization.
I don't know what the original was supposed to sound like since I don't speak Japanese, so I can't speak much to the localization. There were some typos and awkward sentences, but those don't bother me.
@@Cannotbetamed1 There are plenty of typos and awkward sentences, but the worst examples are found in some NPC dialogue that makes no sense. Not unusual for its time though. A few months after Suikoden 2 was released FF8 was the first JRPG to receive a truly quality-tested translation.
Good and thorough review!
Your complaints about Luca Blight though are exactly why Suikoden II fans insist he's one of the best video game villains.
When with so many others their villainy is just all talk (like Bowser and Robotnik, or even Castlevania's Dracula most of the time) or have 'sympathetic' backstories that don't quite work (like Sephiroth and his mommy issues), it's just refreshing to see someone who is absolutely, irredeemably evil and ravages everything in his path.
Good review. I agree with you completely in that I found Suikoden 1 much more enjoyable. The story in 2 is more complex and it had some nice upgrades gameplay wise and better character design / portrait art, but I found the first one to be a smoother game with a more focused storyline. I also tended to like the characters in 1 better and didn't mind the forced party members as much.
If you haven't already, I recommend playing through 1 again and getting all 108 SoD. There's a nice story twist I think you'll appreciate a lot if you get all of them before invading Gregminster.
I love that your videos are always so honest.
I try
The graphics look nice, Definitely got that JRPG look! Didn't know much about the Suikoden games, Thanks Pam, Hope you have a nice Christmas 🎄
Thanks, you too!
I thought Jowy's actions were believable because it had to do with his cynicism that turned him to the might makes right route. Like you said in the video, it contrasts the hero's efforts to reason with nations and unite people. Jowy felt like tyranny was constantly getting victory and resigned himself that he simply must become the new tyrant to bring peace, and what's more he totally anticipated the hero's response to him.
Jowy's character is nothing new. Delita in Final Fantasy Tactics had a similar arc as someone poor and defeated who decided to turn to tyranny because of it getting ingrained that that's the only way that actually manages to win out. But Jowy's character was extremely smart and sympathetic, the most incredibly human portrayal of this kind of character that I've ever seen.
Let us not forget the driving influence of both the Black Sword and Bright Shield. It's bearers are destined to fight each other, so Jowy removing Luca, might be his original and only intention to simply put an end to the ongoing war. But as his plans progress, and seeing how far he had ascended, also realizing his new found responsibility over his own nation. All that combined with Black Swords influence. He felt obliged to continue the struggle. It may seem very stupid for the war to rage on after Luca, but it made sense given the nature of the 2 pieces of the Rune of Beginning. Also, let us not forget that Jowy and Riou Technically grew up as Highlanders, so Jowy fighting for Highland only made sense. Speaking of the Rune's influence, we can also see this with Riou when he (we) decided to totally conquer Highland instead of offering peace especially when we had the upper hand to demand the terms of their surrender.
Nice review, Pam! I played the first Suikoden several years ago and really loved it, and it's one of my favorite PS1 games. I played Suikoden II for the first time last summer and also thought it was inferior to the first. I still enjoyed it and thought it was a good game, just didn't quite hit the same mark as the first in my opinion. I thought it was just me for a while, but it seems there are others who feel the same way. You did a great job articulating the differences between them, and I agree with many of your points here.
Getting this game for Christmas at the tender age of 13 was the best thing ever. It's still one of my favourite games for many reasons, quite a few of those are points of criticism you had with the game. But it's absolutely possible that these things will have a different kind of impact on the player depending on your age. What I absolutely agree with, however, is that no one should skip the first game. Suikoden I and II were always a type of "package" to me. The character cameos and story are much more intertwined than other games in the series are. Also, the additional extras you get for importing your savegame from Suikoden I are so bittersweet that these scenes still tug at my heart. Tir McDohl is my favourite silent protagonist ever, there's just something about him and his story that lend him a lot of expression, even though he only says a few lines in the game.
Concerning Jowy, that's something I disagree with. There are moments throughout the game, where he drops some lines which already sound very suspect and foreshadow that his views may collide with Riou ostensibly sooner than later. It reminds me of the various leaders of each nation disagreeing with each other, only on a much more personal scale. Luca is a throwaway antagonist really, and the Nanami thing is probably something meant for a second playthrough, similar to Gremio from the first game. Aside from the correct "quick time" choice you also need to reach a certain level of defense stat with her if I remember correctly, and no one will get the 108 stars blind on a first playthrough. But I can see where you're coming from and everyone who's giving this series a chance these days has my thanks. Suikoden is really special to me and you did a great job of diving into it.
I have always had a massive soft spot for the first Suikoden, so this is nice to see.
Suikoden 2 is my favourite, but Suikoden 1 does have a certain charm all of its own. I can't really describe it, but it's definitely there.
It's concise! And not afraid to make your victories bitter-sweet.
@@Cannotbetamed1 "Concise" is typically not what everyone looks for in a jrpg, but I prefer 5 anyway. And it still makes me laugh that I was convinced that the Prince was a Princess up until I started the game xD
@@camendiv I agree with you concise is not what most people search in JRPG. I love Suikoden II and Suikoden V due to very strong story line, I don't like Suikoden I that much because when I played it, I played II first. So I feel that the graphic of Suikoden I is very terrible. But anyway, I respect her opinion...
Nostalgia is the word you're looking for lol
I love Suikoden 1 with a passion. I like Suikoden 2 but I don't like the characters as much esp the main characters and the soundtrack to Suikoden 1 is superior in every way
I gave up on critiquing JRPG's (Religion) with friends years ago as it never went well lol Brave video
There are a few games that many people seem unwilling to accept any criticism of.
@jeremy arecco translation: "wahh, the UA-camrs don't agree with me. Bias!"
It's not just jrpgs fans that are bad you should see how bad Last of Us fans can be when you say anything bad about it
@@marcusblack99 that’s fandoms to you in general
@Marcus Black are the last of us 2 fans as annoying as its haters? They seem to pop up everywhere to shit talk it. I’ve never played or talked about the game in a video yet I still have received many comments about it how bad it is.
Great review! I have differing opinions myself but you back up your opinion well :) I beat this game and suikoden 1 for the very first time this year and Personally I felt one was very slow and difficult to see through but I had a ton of fun with this one. The large scale battles were a drag I agree but the rest I pretty much loved. :) Luca making the girl crawl like a piggy was actually shocking to me. Humiliating the girl and making her cast aside her diginity before delivering a death blow. I thought that was shocking as opposed to silly. Keep it up. Loving your uploads :)
Thanks!
How did it take you 8bhours to get your castle? I grind out 5 double beat runes and still get it around 5 hours.
Wow, you're so good.
Most of the "negative" things mentioned are completely optional and more of a second play-through thing.
Some of the comments were just erroneous. Flik and viktor weren't assumed dead in S1 for example.
She makes it seem like you "must" collect the very optional & additional squirrels. Or that you must play the mini games in the castle.
Anyway, thanks for reviewing it, just have to disagree entirely.
Viktor and Flik stay behind in the castle to fight off enemies, then the castle crumbles and they are not seen again. Don't know why I wouldn't presume they were dead.
I didn't suggest you "must" do anything.
No they were basically MIA according to their endings in S1 which generally means unexplained assume dead to most people (like me)
while our opinions may differ i could tell a lot of heart and thought went into this review and for that you earn a new subscriber! :3
Welcome to the channel!
I've always intended to finally get back to this one, as I thought Suikoden 1 was 'fine', but I was also a lot more tolerant of JRPG nonsense (almost exactly the term I use myself) back in the PS1 era. Thanks for maybe the only critical review of this game I've ever heard
No problem! Glad you liked it
Suikoden 2 is my FAVORITE RPG (And possibly game) ever.
I wish they would release a remaster Add more content too. I freaking couldn't get enough.
Watch out for Eiyuden Chronicles. Same creator.
@@Gio-ym4uj oh thanks for the tip! Definitely curious. I don't think any suikoden game following S2 even held a candle to it. (Except for maybe suikoden on DS)
Wow I think Suikoden On the DS is the worst of all of them and is missing the elements that make it a Suikoden game.
I like them all but for me it would be 2,1,3,5,4, Tactics then Teikeries
Soon we get Eiyuden Chronicles though which is made to be similar to 2 with characters, city building cooking battle and etc
@@oslowilde6961 Iguess i'm the only one who place suiko 1 in the last place xD...my list would be: 2 (of course, duh), 5, 4, tactics, 3, 1 and...tierkreis. I place 1 at the last but i liked it anyways, and i really love the story of 4 despites the flaws in the game. But tierkreis...man, that game is horrible as a suikoden game, doesn't deserve to have a suikoden name on it xD...and here i am wishing i could play suikoden Tsumugareshi Hyakunen no Toki for the psp but no realiable english patch yet T.T
Well buddy.. Time to get excited lol
It's nice to see your footage using the original aspect ratio.
One thing about the things that are annoying now, like finding all 108 stars, were a positive in the 90s when a few games were all you had and a complicated optional scavenger hunt was welcome
You can choose to run away ? Sorry, but I just can't help thinking about Monty Python and The Holy Grail. "Run awaaaay"!! Merry Christmas to you, Pam. Have a great 2021.
Thanks, Merry Christmas to you as well
It's ok that you rate Suikoden II different than most. You did a great job explaining why. You're entitled to your opinion. The series is still in my backlog, so I'll look forward to my own take on the series as well.
Thanks!
I remember playing suikoden 2 just after finishing the first one and even though I had some gripes with the first one (mainly random encounter rate being high and the encounters being rather boring) it just held my attention for enough time to finish it. Suikoden 2 just didn't hold me for long. I was taken aback because people said it was one of the best jrpgs of all time but I couldn't see what was there to love so much. Really glad reviews like this exist.
That was a very honest and good review! .. Guess the rest of the internet grabbed their torches and pitchforks though lol
The comments have been pretty tame.
@@Cannotbetamed1 I was surprised as much as you too
well most of the suikoden fans love all suikoden games and accept that someone may like part 1 better than part 2 :D
Well met, Lily☆ Army!
I totally relate with the army battles. I hated that they were so drawn out and mostly entirely luck based, despite your best efforts to make strong units.
The sad thing about Luca Blight is that his motivations are locked behind media that was never localized for a western audience; The books and manga.
I loved seeing your perspective on the game. Whilst I enjoyed the game as a kid myself, I found myself bothered by multiple things when I was replaying it for my channel, so I can totally see where you're coming from.
I really think the army battles are the biggest offender for me not enjoying the game as much. They're just so slow and often have a few of them back to back. Going through my game footage while editing I could see how much time they took up.
Having information relevant to a game available outside of it is a big pet peeve.
I first played Suikoden 2, and later played 1.
I preferred Suikoden 2, but mostly for some of the peripheral things like the cooking minigame and such. I agree that it is drawn out at times, and I definitely didn't pursue ALL the collectibles and such, but it edges out Suikoden 1 as my favorite of the series.
I can see why someone might prefer the first though.
As long as you don't end up saying Suikoden 3 is better than 1/2, we're still friends. XD
We'll see after I play 3.
That game looks like its right up my alley. I hope its on Sega Saturn though. How long did it take you to complete each one btw?
It’s not in Saturn. This game took me around 36 hours
@@Cannotbetamed1 actually it is, I just found out yesterday, but it was only released in Japan
@@affansonicfan Suikoden 1 was on Saturn not Suikoden 2 which was PS1 and PSP only
Man your reviews are getting better and better.... And I admit it, I would be one of the persons who would claim that S2 is an improvement to S1. The main reason for this is, from a technical POV it enhances a lot of things to S1. Yet, I do agree with you, S1 has much more heart and soul(rune :p). I love the story and I love the sieges in S1 even if they were not as "tactical" as in S2 but the moments when you start to outnumber your opponents and the victory theme begins to play or moments like Gremios dead or detecting opponent leaders are controlled by an evil rune and a lot of lovable characters let S1 outshine S2.
So why do I still recommend S2 over S1? I also played both games after like 15-20 years of absence and when I played the beginning of S1, I realized, S1 did not aged well. S1 is very slow paced until you are getting to the highlights I mentioned before. In S2 the plot reaches you much quicker, combat and inventory are improved, content is bigger. Also S2, has its moments, when the dogs think you are using them as meat-shields or when chasing that little brat in the bat village and you already mentioned Nanami.
So I would go the other way round and say, for people who have no nostalgia, should first play S2 and play S1 afterwards.
That's just my opinion on Suikoden 1+2 😊 Both games are great and thank you so much for making videos like this and share them with us.
Merry Christmas and happy holidays to everybody. 🎄🎁
Thanks so much, Merry Christmas to you!
I respect anyone willing to put forward an opinion that dissents form the majority in game analysis. It helps keep all of our perspectives balanced and grounded. Prevents hype from blinding us to the potential faults of popular games. I think the choice to use a tactical grid-based system for the massive battles sounds like a dubious choice if the entire game isn't committed to that battle system, like in Fire Emblem or Disgaea. A partially-executed shallow tactical battle system may be best left simplified as you point out for the first game's massive battles.
I have been exploring the PS1's JRPGs for a while, but haven't gotten to Suikoden games yet. The price of Suikoden II alone is enough to keep me from being able to play it.
I’ve actually never played the Suikoden series. But I’m willing to give them a shot. Thanks for the video Pam!
Merry Christmas, Pam 🎄🎄❄️❄️☃️☃️⭐️⭐️ and a Happy New Year! 🎆🎈🎊
Merry Christmas!
@@Cannotbetamed1 🎄🎄❄️❄️☃️☃️⭐️⭐️ You too, Pam!
@@Cannotbetamed1 Which Suikoden games are your favorite, and which one do you recommend I check out first, Pam?
1
@@Cannotbetamed1 Thank you 👍🎄🎄❄️❄️⭐️
I beat Suikoden 2 about 9 times, Suikoden 1 about 8 times, Suikoden 3 about 6 times, Suikoden 4 about 4 times and Suikoden 5 about 2 or 3 times. I have to say you are highly mistaken. Suikoden 2 is the best out of the entire series. The emotional drama, the political dynamic, the returning characters and the badass Luca Blight. The first one was good, but this one takes it to a whole new level.
I beat Suikoden 2 about 10 times, Suikoden 1 about 12 times, Suikoden 3, 3 times, 4 and 5 once and 1 is the best in the series to me but its close as its so short and graphically (actual graphics and game engine) worse. 2 just kept going back and forth until all of a sudden the hero's army just kept winning for no real reason. There was just to many plot twists that it suffered on replays for me (which sounds crazy considering the amount of times I played it) I just felt like each playthrough felt less enjoyable whist 1 only dropped a little to me.
Always enjoy your reviews! Have you tried Metal Saga for the PS2? (open world post apocalyptic turn based rpg with fully customizable tanks and a dog that you can put a bazooka on)
No, I have not played that
@@Cannotbetamed1 While the Metal Max/Metal Saga series has only seen two official localizations in our part of the world, the series itself has a kind of humorous charm and uses tanks (and trying to recruit the dog into the party) as a means of luring the player through the 'slog' of the usual level grinding. Having enough mosquito spray when staying at makeshift "inns" setup in broken down buildings, knowing when to use the tanks (if you've found any) or hoof it on foot, and choosing what party members you want to recruit to explore the expanse of the wasteland while hunting bounties are all part of its charm. As one of the few fans of the series in the West, I can confidently say that it isn't for everyone, but it may be worth a try! (Plus, new sealed copies are cheap right now despite pandemic pricing on old games)
The experience I had with the squirrels was quite pleasant:
Have Stallion in your party and no one else besides him, then run back and forth on the paths between towns. If you don’t get the squirrel, step into the town and then return to the world map.
If you already got Mukumuku in Kyaro, in the following order: run on the path between Two River and Greenhill to get Makumaku, then between Forest Village and Greenhill to get Mikimiku, then between Matilda Border and Greenhill for Mekumeku, then run around the forest clearing just south of Forest Village for Mokumoku. Whenever you think it’s taking too long to get the squirrels, get into a town and come back out to try again.
I got all the squirrels in less than 15 minutes
I have to admit, your description of Annalee singing was hilarious. 😂
At that point I didn't even realize the missing music in the battles was a bug so it was so strange when that part of the game was completely silent.
Oh man, I've been pronouncing her name wrong all this time! 8-[
Thank you very much for an honest review, its important to call out the negatives of a game along side with the positives, especially when its about a sequel from a previous installment that was already a great game and thus it should be expected to improve everything about the first.
Glad you liked it
Suikoden 2 is my favorite RPG ever. I wish 5 was on the PS3 store it’s the only one I haven’t played and many say it’s the best
There is a visual novel released in Japan for the PS1 called Genso Suikogaiden Vol. 1: Swordsman of Harmonia (translated from Japanese) that gives a bit more detail on the events of Suikoden 2. It follows the story of Nash (who later becomes a Star of Destiny in Suikoden 3 along with Sasarai), a spy sent from Harmonia to learn about the True Runes. It's apparently set during the events of Suikoden 2.
You'll also find out a bit more about Jowy's motives and other key events of Suikoden 2, as well as how Nash and Sierra became hitched. (Sierra was the "missus" that Nash was referring to in Suiko 3).
IIRC, there's a translated version floating along somewhere in the internet. If you have time, please take a look at that! It's quite interesting.
EDIT: There's also a Vol. 2, taking place 3 months after Suikoden 2. Very intersting.
I find myself wanting to recommend "Lufia II: Rise of the Sinistrals" for the SNES. It's still, to this day, one of my favorite games of all time. While technically a sequel, it's the prequel to to first Lufia game, so playing the first isn't necessary. In fact, I've never played more than a little of the first one because of how awful that one is. While mostly a traditional RPG, there are no random battles inside dungeons like the FF series; random battles only exist on the overworld. All the enemies are plainly visible outside of combat, and you have out-of-combat items that can affect them (that plays into some puzzles, too). I love the characters, story, combat... just everything. And I personally don't think it's got too much of typical JRPG nonsense. I don't think it's one of the BIG SNES games, either, so if this sounds like it's up your alley (and you actually see this comment), give it a shot. I hope it's one you'd like.
Edit: If you DO play this game, there is one dungeon in the middle of the game that's a little difficult (mostly just the boss, really), and two VERY difficult puzzles in the same dungeon at the end of the game; without spoilers (I hope), just remember the grass puzzle and bomb puzzle on Dragon Mountain. I HIGH recommend a walkthrough for the two of them, as they're progress-halting difficult.
I wish the games would get released so that I could buy them. I kind of want Pam to play one so that she could appreciate 2 more, though the first one may turn her off of the series.
@@KK_183 It'd be dope if they did, like, a Lufia master pack with all the games like they recently did with the FF Legends games (or w/e that series is called).
@@Kyrrial Agreed.
Lufia is very much a JRPG classic.
great game
Nice review!
I kind of enjoyed Suikoden 2 a lot, but I'm also not tolerant of the grindy aspect JRPGs usually have. Nowadays I shamelessly just cheat the numbers whenever I realize I'm in for a hours-long repetitive activity. Playing MMOs for years really traumatized me when it comes to grinding. I love long games provided they don't extend it artificially with grindy activities, and since I cheated out on some of the most annoying things, I enjoyed the pace overall. But the random things you practically have to read before playing in order to acomplish is a downer for me too, although that's another thing that usually comes with JRPGs.
This game has some strange elements that sets it apart though, like the possibility of saving Nanami, running away in the middle of the game, bringing about an abrupt but fitting end; or giving up running away after making the decision, which leads to a major character death and his substitution by his son. I was quite surprised by this, that's not something I've seen executed in a JRPG before. Lots of things to do around the castle, I just loved seeing it grow. Too bad there are so many characters, because of that almost none of them could be properly flashed out.
I read about every major thing I had to do in order to get the best ending as I played the game, so after I was finished it didn't leave a sour taste. I've never played the 1st Suikoden nor the ones made after 2, I wonder how they hold up. I'm gonna use the ps2 emulator when I get a pc to play 3, 4 and 5.
I do like that you can run away in the middle of the game, I didn’t find out until I read about it after I had finished though. Nanami did not die in my game but I don’t know what I did to save her.
@@Cannotbetamed1 I think there are two requirements to save her, one being a quest or something (I forgot) and the other is clicking fast in that moment. Maybe just doing the first is enough.
I hadn't read about the possibility of running away when Nanami approached me with the suggestion. I accepted just for the lols (because such options never really lead to anything but comedic comments in JRPGs) and suddenly a chain of events started and I was like "WTF!!".
I was asked to give up running away a couple of times during the escape with some responsability-themed conversations, and was just declining to see where that would lead and was so surprised it eventually ended the game (after a bittersweet scene, where even Nanami seemed to have regretted suggesting running away).
I'm glad I had a save before taking that decision though, I felt HORRIBLE about the character's death :P the game really punches you in that event and it kinda made me care more about the whole plot from that moment on.
Very honest analysis. Do you think about doing a Final Fantasy VI review? It's my favorite snes rpg.
Great video! :)
Suikoden 2 is one of my fave JRPGs of all time, but I can admit it had issues. The army battles were dumb, and that translation was just pretty bad.. And the first one is great, so if you preferred that one, more power to you! I'd be interested to see if you continue this series, since I feel like 3 was pretty different, 4 was...well it was something, and 5 goes back to feeling more like 1 and 2.
I'll be playing 3 at some point.
@@Cannotbetamed1 I love Suikoden 3, it was the first RPG I finished. I have since finished 1 and played a good deal of 2.
Suikoden 3 only had one character which I found odd to recruit (in the way that it was not obvious from talking to them). And I really enjoyed the Triple Sight system.
@@whahala555 I liked the triple sight system too. But I did find replaying the same areas over to be a little tedious. 3 does have some amazing characters though.
I think I have four of the first five digitally and I definitely plan to play through them at some point and now I will play them from beginning to end as you suggest
Have you played the Final Fantasy Legend series?
Nope, I don’t really even know what that is
Do you always dislike purely evil villains? There are people like Luca that existed in history, like Ivan the terrible and Vlad the Impaler.
I played some of the first game but found it hard to get into. I wasn’t sure whether I should skip to this game or play the first first, but I think you’ve convinced to do the latter if I do ever play them.
I don't dislike all purely evil villains. I just found Luca so over the top and ridiculous. A motivation was hinted at, but never really explained.
@@Cannotbetamed1 There was originally supposed to be a motivation for him, but I think they cut it out at the last minute. I'm not sure of the reason.
WHOA don't put Vlad and Ivan as "purely evil villains", man. Those two are heroes of their lands. Luca is just bad.
@@budakbaongsiahMost genocidal despots are heroes to their lands. But perhaps Caligula is a better example I could have chosen.
@@gilgamesh310
Those two are not even close to being genocidal, though. Ivan the Terrible is a mistranslated title anyway, just like Aethelraed the Unready.
Your use of english is so pleasant, so nice to hear such a great voice, making such great use of the language, specially for this sort of content haha
Thank you!
Sorry for the OT comment, but every video I see the box for Blade Runner in the background. It's one of my favorite adventure games; plan on doing a review any time soon? It'd fit right in with the whole cyberpunk craze right now....
Yes I’d like to review that sometime soon
@@Cannotbetamed1 DO EEEEEEET. :) (I mean, the supreme badass-ness of Crystal Steele could almost warrant its own video, haha.)
@@Cannotbetamed1 Also, the ESPER sequences seem to me to be almost a precursor to Cyberpunk 2077's braindance scenes.
I'm not sure if you drew inspiration from the artwork, but your makeup is stunning. Merry Christmas to you and I will certainly give the first game a chance, thanks for the heads up.
P.S. 6 character parties are the kind everyone recommends these days 👀
Edit: Braveheart much? 14:00
Merry Christmas! The makeup was inspired by Rina. And then I picked art that also kinda matched.
Nice to see an opinion not complimenting the game to death. I have not finished Suiko 2 but I thought it was pretty good when I played it a few years ago. Now I'm curious to continue to find those bugs haha. And those lil squirrels are cute af.
This reminds me of when I played FF7 after hearing how praised it was, but honestly it was just okay to me because it’s story and characters were just all over the place. In that era, FF9 honestly took the trophy for me.
While Suikoden II is my current favorite, I honestly can’t disagree with this review and appreciate people that experience JRPGs without rose tinted glasses. I can’t wait to go through and check out your other content!
Thanks, glad you appreciate the video and will check out more.
I mean...I just don't know what to say about this review...I need to step away and regroup.
Hey I’ve always really loved the first one too ! For me one and two are tied, and I really enjoyed five but I never beat it when I played it in 2006- I finally am gonna beat that one though because I started another playthrough a week ago or so and have been playing consistently. S1 is great I always find it weird how much better everyone thinks number two is, for me they’re both equally good
I think 1 is a little underappreciated. Two has a few improvements but also some downsides.
@@Cannotbetamed1 I think this was a common occurrence for a lot of these great RPGs of the 90s. There were so many good ones, being released to an English speaking audience that still wasn't particularly aware or appreciative of them in large numbers, that those of us were into them just picked them up when we saw them without any prior knowledge or hype of any kind, for the most part. That was Suikoden 1, Persona 1, and many others for me outside of the big PR/Marketed Squaresoft games. Some were forgettable, but some were really amazing and and made years/decades-long impressions, even though I didn't know a single other person in person who had played some of the less popular ones, at the time!
I really enjoy the presentation of older games, although I didn´t play rpg back then :D thanks alot!
(Your upper eye lids are turning into hulk upper eye lids...btw)
I love Suikoden I it's one of my favorite games of all time and probably the game I beat the most with Chrono Trigger (3x maybe 4). Oddly I could never get into the second one and never beat it. It's on my to-do list though, I'm waiting for the remasters to come out and I will finally knock that one off my check list.
Always happy to see different opinions, but wow, Jowy very misunderstood. It's so much more than just best friends destined to fight.
Admittedly, the true ending (not discussed) is VITAL to appreciate the story and the requirements in that quick time event are a bit silly.
Can Nanami actually die? Even though I thought I failed it, she was fine in the end.
@@Cannotbetamed1 The event was one of several (admittedly silly) requirements for the ending; it wasn't so much about her living/dying. Valkyrie Profile takes the crown for the stupidest true ending requirements, but this was in that cohort of games that hid their great endings and offered bland regular ones. I guess everyone at the time wanted to follow the lead of Chrono Trigger.
@@Cannotbetamed1 This is super late, but yes (and if you are playing blind, it's fairly likely she will die). I don't think it matters which option you pick, but if you do not respond then the text box just vanishes on its own, and she wasn't "faking" her death (ie the doctor really couldn't save her). Also, oddly, she has to have a certain amount of Defense (121, IIRC) to survive as well, but the number is fairly low and you are unlikely to be below this number unless you unequipped her or something. You also have to have all 108 stars by the time that scene occurs for her to remain alive, as well. Miss any of those things (respond fast enough, less than 121 DEF, and don't have all 108 stars) and she's dead for real.
I did not get all 108 stars but the doctor still saved her.
as a patient gamer who doesn't play games until well after their expiration date i've been asking lately "when does a game stop being good?" the obvious answer should be never yet as i catch up on older, higher rated games i find they just don't hold us as well today. one of the common responses i see is "well it was good when i played it" which speaks volumes to me. this holds true especially with older rpgs and while i appreciate the speed-up feature of recent remakes it doesnt change the core gameplay. i'm finding the same holds true to games i loved playing as a kid such as breath of fire 3 and final fantasy 7 on the original playstation.
There are a lot of games I loved as a kid where I now can't get past how much time they waste or how grindy they feel. And many games I know I wouldn't enjoy playing for the first time now, but I remember the secrets and how to get by the tough parts from when I first played.
Going to have to disagree on this one, although the first is great , the 2nd is just more polished and better overall, i'm pretty sure the creators said the 2nd one is what they originally wanted in the first game as well.
Suikoden 5 is my favourite, you should continue if you enjoyed the series :D
I will slowly make my way through the series.
@@Cannotbetamed1 Good call. I paid $250 CAD in 2007 for a physical copy of Suikoden II. I was able to get it on PSN like 8 years later for $5 I think?
I love S2, but the tactical battles do suck ass. Easily the worst in the series.
As for Jowy's motivations: They may not have done a great job exploring them, but it was more than just destiny. He was convinced that the strong hand of the Highland Kingdom was needed in order to uphold peace, something which Riou's band of outlaws wouldn't be able to ensure.
Yeah, I didn’t buy Jowy’s reasoning.
Don't forget from the Highland POV City-State is the one that break the peace treaty by killing the young unicorn brigade and from the flashback we saw that City-state is the evil one so it would be hard for Jowy (newly appointed king with no blood of royalty) to make another peace treaty with City-state when his people of Highland still hate the City-state.
@@Cannotbetamed1 you didn't buy jowy reasoning but buy Tir (S1 MC) reason for becoming the liberation army leader? He became the leader because Mathiu said "I believe that what odessa want"
No, making a child the leader of an army was dumb in both games.
@@Cannotbetamed1 if they capable to be become leader why not? In Suikoden 2 it's make sense because the MC is the adopted son of City-state hero and have the same rune as him so he can be a symbol of new hero and he the one that make General Solon Jhee retreat while outnumbered while in Suikoden 1 Tir didn't accomplice anything big for liberation army yet he bacame a leader
You make pretty good points. I definitely played it fifteen years ago when I was a teenager so I definitely viewed through the shades of edgy emotion and would have to replay it to get a better perspective. So my apologizes about my overglowing recommendation!
It's like listening to that really cool band you liked when you were in high school but you listen to them in your 30s and you're really confused on why you really liked them so much in the first place.
Ooof, this hurts me to hear that you didn't like this game. But you know what? It's alright! If you don't like it, I ain't gonna lose sleep over it. I appreciate your honesty.
Now for your gripes, I can see how you thought Luca Blight seemed silly. I, however, rightfully hate this monster for wanting kill b/c he revels in it. And I liked the plot twists and Nanami's moment.
This game is one my favorite games of all time, but this is my 2nd favorite RPG, next to Chrono Trigger. I appreciate your opinion, though I humbly and respectfully disagree.
🥳
I don't think you meant to come across this way, Moon Spirit, but this comment is a bit condescending and self-absorbed.
While I really like Suikoden 2 a lot, and it has some of my favorite moments in the series...there are some valid criticisms here. Honestly, I think that Suikoden 2, 3 and 5 are all great, and that 1, 4, and Tactics are still pretty good. Suikoden 3 has the best war battles in the series IMO. To me, the Riou/Jowy destined to fight thing is best explained by the influence of the two halves of the Rune of Beginning. As Riou, you can decide whether to say things to resist fighting Jowy or not, but Jowy as an NPC seems to struggle with fighting off its influence for various reasons. Four of the five main series games (all but 3) really demonstrate that bearing a True Rune (or piece of one) is often more tragic than "cool," as they sort of have wills of their own that don't always line up with what you want.
''With a great power comes a great responsibility''...they really took the responsibility part to another level xD...
Rune of Punishment and Soul Eater: ''I confirm'' :V
Are you interested in the upcoming eiyuden chronically the original writers are coming out with? I still love jrpgs for the crazy but more involved stories and the graphic art style looks amazing so here's to hoping the story is too
Maybe, we'll see what it looks like when it comes out.
I was ready to hate this video but your points are actually really good and I respect it. While I think S2 is the best personally, S1 is pretty much right there with it.
I love the whole series more than any other 😆
Great video!
Thanks for watching it before getting mad at me for it :)
I don't know if you are doing a Top 5/bottom 5 games of the year, but looking forward to it if/when you do!
I've already done my 5 most disappointing, best will be next week.
loved the video, enjoy the holidays!
Thanks, you too!
You have a major case for best active videogame reviewer, and this vid is good grounds for that. Yours is the only real review of this game as far as I know. Most "reviews" of Suikoden II amount to the person saying "Yo guys, this game is totally awesome! Go buy it!". You're one of only a handful who notice and mention features that can sway a person toward or away from the game. A reviewer is supposed to tell people whether they would like a game if they played it. I haven't played Suikoden II, but it was high on my bucket list. I've now removed it entirely, since you mentioned two features that are prime deal-breakers for me.
I'm glad the review was helpful to you.
The "Iron Chef" like cooking minigame is the best mini game of any RPG I've ever played. I cannot be objective about this game since I played it as a teen when it first came out, so it will always be special to me. I can understand why it wouldn't be great for everyone. Also, if you get the good ending and save a certain someone it's one of the most enjoyable endings to a video game imo.
The Iron Chef in Star Ocean 2 is much more fun. But this one is cute too.
I do enjoy Suikoden 2 a whole lot but it too isn’t my top game in the series. 3 is my absolute favorite and I find myself replaying 1 and 3 the most. I avoid doing reruns sometimes on 2 and 5 just because their pacing is all over the place. I know some people say Suikoden 3 is so slow and boring but I view it as being a slow burn and it kicks up into high gear and rarely lets go once you finish the first 3 chapters for the trinity sight system! Fantastic review and very different since its rare to hear that 2 isn’t the best or most favorite in the entire series. Thankfully all Suikoden titles are all worth playing at least twice even IV which is the black sheep of the series. Suikoden at its worst is just actually a fun quick JRPG to play with a few flaws.
I'm looking forward to playing 3.
Waited for this for 9 months (When Suikoden 1 review was added). Saw that the video title leaned heavily towards being almost clickbait'y. I thought of 'The Office' clip of Michael yelling "No. No. Please, God. No". This is basically the entire reason I subbed here originally; waiting around from the Suikoden 1 review until the Suikoden 2 review. Let's do this! (^_^)
So we (you) begin talking about the variety of mini games, items, and things to do. These are nearly the exact same things that you mentioned in the 'Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night' review. Cooking minigame, crafting, growing your own food, playing dress up. Now I need to go back and see how you felt about it there. "You want crafting and food recipes? You've got 'em". "Honestly, it's a lot. but while I feel some of these features could have been safely left out of the game, they don't take away from how much fun the combat and exploration are". Fair enough. Seems like that line from your Bloodstained review can be applicable to both Bloodstained and Suikoden 2.
8:00 "I don't want to make it sound like this is all bad..." Me: What??? Those were the complaints? Whew! You had been stating positive things up until that point for the most part, I thought. Variety of things to do. Game length / playtime longer than the previous game (happens pretty always in sequels). Random battles look nice and aren't as simple/easy as previous random battles. More inventory and item descriptions are a thing now. That's better as well. You're right in that the war battles are clunky and mostly scripted to end one way. To be fair, Suikoden 1's war battles were fairly easy (if not reliant on being lucky with the rock-paper-scissors style). The story aspects with the generic star-crossed friends trope and your complaint about Luca being evil just for evil's sake are fine takes to have too. There isn't much explanation as to why he is psycho. Bad childhood? Mental illness? Mercury poisoning? Who knows? Oh, and yeah. The bugs do break some things in the game; especially for those interested in 100% completion runs.
Okay. After completing the video, yeah. The title really doesn't say it is a bad game so I can't fault you there. It does seem like mild clickbait, but this is youtube so it's all about the title, views, metrics, and thumbnail. It is your channel so you could have called it whatever you want. You could have named the video the superior video title I just thought up: "Suikoden 2: Poo-poo-head game".
Even if you mildly smiled at that, this whole thing was worth it.
Thank you for the review. This was from that golden period of PS1 where Konami spit out 'Castlevania: Symphony of the Night' and 'Suikoden 2' both of which have such glorious sprite work, gameplay, and music. I have fond memories of snagging Suikoden 2 when I was at an Electrionics Boutique picking up my Final Fantasy 8 preorder. Suikoden 2 was picked up on a whim because it was sitting at the checkout with a pile of its strategy guides. I ended up liking Suikoden 2 SOOOO much more than Final Fantasy 8, too, so that's my little Suikoden 2 story.
Final thoughts/comments: The best part(s) of Suikoden 2 is that even if you don't like it as much as the original, the fact that the sequel exists doesn't take away from the original. To me, they feel like two parts of the same game/experience. It reminds me of people disliking the Final Fantasy VII Remake. Just because the new one exists, nothing is taken away from the original existing or stopping you from playing it.
Thank you for reading my wall-of-text review of your review. Sorry for it becoming a wall of text, but you knew some people were going to have lots to say so you were not going into this being surprised.
I'm glad that I found your channel and whew! Suikoden 2 is behind us, finally!
I'm glad you found the review fair and hope it was worth the wait. The first two games do kind of feel like part of the same experience. There's so much overlap in the characters and mechanics. I'm looking forward to seeing how 3 changes things up in another 9 months or a year.
Never got emotions? maybe you should get the bad ending and the true ending. Respect for your opinion. To each of their own i think. 🙂
I was hella emotionally invested in this game. I can't even finish this review lol.
I have to agree with your assessment. I preferred the first suikoden over the 2nd. The large grid battles were obnoxious and acquiring characters was too much of a chore. Suikoden 1 was sweet and to the point.
It's rare that a jrpg is to the point, so Suikoden 1 was so refreshing.
If you make it to Suikoden 3 I'd be curious to hear your opinion. Its one of my favorites but got mixed reviews
I'll get there in another year or so.
i get why suikoden 3 gets mixed reviews ^^´ the overall idea is great but the implementation is somewhat meh at times.
I agree with you. I think my favorite is the first one, although I believe Suikoden is an awesome game if it is considered as a whole franchise (in itself); not any Suikoden game is actually a full-fledged game, but most of them are just very good games, which when added altogether (at least the main games, not necessarily counting spin-offs etc...) become then yes a spectacular RPG franchise.
You know it's going to be a good video when pam is going to rustle some jimmies. My wife is the biggest suikoden fan that I personally know of and even though I've only ever played the first suikoden game I'm pretty knowledgeable on the series because I've watched my wife play through them all. You do make a really good point Pam, the fact that you played and beaten the game beyond the time it was actually released and you were already well aware of some of the tropes and game design choices that many jrpg's had, it has probably not necessarily made you jaded but it's certainly made you aware of lazy writing, generic plots, lackluster villains and poor design/gameplay choices.
My wife does consider Suikoden 2 her second favorite suikoden game of the series, but she considers Suikoden 5 as her personal favorite so I'm kind of curious to see what your thoughts are on the other entries. Suikoden 3 has one of the biggest wtf/plot twist moments of the entire series (I'm not going to spoil it for you), Suikoden 4 is pretty much universally hated for pretty much the same reason which I'm sure you'll figure out right quick, and Suikoden 5 does have a really dedicated following but people really hate the high encounter rate and loading times everywhere.
Personally from my experience a lot of the acclaim for Suikoden 2 comes from the villain. I often see people consider Luca Blight as one of the most evil villains in jrpg history but I respectfully disagree on that front. Regardless of how people perceive the game, most people who have played the game got their enjoyment out of it and even though it didn't meet your expectations, you still gave it a fair try and in hindsight that is the best anybody could ever ask for.
Thanks for the comment. It was still a decent game, I just really loved the first and the massive battles here really made the game drag for me
There's a glitch in the game that allows you to push a locked gate giving you access to an area with much stronger enemies that can level you up much higher than what you are supposed to be at at that point in the game...making the rest of the game a breeze.
Suikoden is an easy game. You dont need to use cheat code , glitch etc. The glitch is here but nobody will force you to use it...
Even the best games have some bugs, but this one admittedly had quite a few. I know it's no excuse for the game's original state, but if they bother you it's possible to fix them; (not on original hardware obviously.) Just search "Suikoden II Bug Fix Patch" and you'll find it.
@@dauntless0711 the bug didn't bother me
I am not biased. All my life playing JRPG. Suikoden 2 is the best so far. In fact, until now. Btw some of your negative point is... Unreasonable? well we have different opinion.
I recently picked up FF7 on my Switch, and I’d love to see you review that (and other old FF games) Your takes are always so interesting and different and I really like having your point of view on games, especially ones that everyone else seems to love. Also I want to know how much of FF7 is old video game/JRPG nonsense or if I’m just too picky in my dislike of the item menus and all the steps I have to go about if I want to switch materia between characters.
There's definitely some jrpg nonsense in FF7. Like Chocobo racing. Or the lack of save points in the final dungeon.
@@Cannotbetamed1 Just think of it as a boss parade trial like Castlevania titles like to do! I guess?
Admittedly, those menus (and probably the ones in other Final Fantasy games as well) and dealing with materia can be potentially tedious, but tedium can be worth dealing with if the game is enjoyable enough.
That cooking game is awesome. Just saying.
it is. getting the recipes to use for it was rather annoying, tho. figuring out which ones to keep in ur party (lest you lock out the enemy drop ones) was really a Guide Dang It moment.
@@ichan4215 Not to mention one of the recipes is glitched.
But so hard
but the Cooking contest was too easy, I think.
In 2001-2002 i run and call all shops of my large area (100 kilometers around my village) , and finally after 6 months one shop has ONE Suikoden 2 !! I buy it between one bus and one train in a little city of France haha. And i finish it at 110% !! I always had my personal made soluce in my archives.... And trust me, before internet boom, it was some kind of rich thing )) . I will put it on internet one day !
Agreed. I liked Suikoden 2 a lot but the improvements didn't make up for the significantly longer intro and how obscure some of the stars were. I love the whole franchise through and through but the first one was my favorite.
I thought one was a way worse offender of obscure stars, just based off Clive, Crowley and window alone.
At least 2 give you Richmond to help. Overall I like to think of both games as a package deal as 2 seems to expound on the greatness of 1 to me.
I really love Suikoden 2, but I do agree with you in liking the first one more. In some way it felt more mature? But I also think it has to do with the fact it was the first one I pick up as a kid and made me fall in love with j-rpgs and have good memories because of it. I do have to say that the PAL version did not have the glitches and the music buggs wich makes a whole lot of differents! thank you for daring to be critical about such a loved game.
The first game felt braver in the way it told its story. All the victories were bittersweet.
Totally agree with this review. I've replayed Suikoden 1 and 2 recently and I think that the second game is super overrated. It surpises me that ppl even think that Suikoden 2 has one of the best stories ever... IMO it was way too cliché, nonsensical and badly translated to take it seriously. Also, I felt that it had too much filler content and backtracking. I prefer the fist game over the second one too!
Pam pulling no punches. Great review as always!
Thanks
You know, I think I actually avoided the first game for years specifically because I thought it would also be this dragged out.
The first game is surprisingly concise.
Finally somebody that agree's with me on Suikoden 1 vs 2. Yes I enjoy both games, but Suikoden 1 story had way more emotion towards the characters. It was an epic story, and Suikoden 1 had better music ! Believe me Suikoden 2 is still an all-time-great, but dang people are sleeping on Suikoden 1. (I have not played Suikoden 3 or 4 yet so I can't speak on them). In my honest opinion the people who love 2 best.....played 2 before 1, or never played 1. If you play 1 first, you get nostalgia from seeing returning characters. I look at Suikoden 1 and 2 like PB&J, they go together. Some days i want more PB some days I want more Jelly.
I don't really even see how you can like the second game without playing the first one before it. Most of the character development is done in the first game, and it's just building on it in the second. I didn't feel like I got to know any of the new characters. Also, yes, so many more emotional beats in the first game. The second had so many fake outs I just stopped worrying about characters "dying".
I am so glad to finally found someone who thinks that this game is worse than the first. You raised some good points too, and the NA version of this game is definitely not the version anybody should play.
Gothic Neclord and Reminiscence are the most overrated Suikoden music ever though. Speaking of the music, this and the third installments have the worst sound quality for its music even for PS1/PS2. Not the compositions, which are great, but how the music sounds. Sometimes I feel like the game sounds like it's torturing some animals instead of playing some brass or strings or flutes. It's a massive drop from the first as that game used a lot of real instrument and voice samples.
I feel the same about my tolerance to JRPG stories. Even Xenogears (which for many people holds the best stories ever made for a game) feels like Tetsuya Takahashi just read Kabbalah, Torah, the Old Testament, and Nietzsche's books and decided to mash them with little coherence.
Not-so-fun-"fact": Gorudo is most likely a mistranlation of Gordeau (ゴルドー (Gorudoo)), just like Mathiu is most likely supposed to be Matthew (マッシュ (Masshu)).
An example of the first, the difficulty of the game was to get all the allies. I really liked the sound of the city of GREEHILL.
(makumaku, mekumeku, mikumiku, mokumoku and mukumuku are one of the most difficult to achieve, they need to appear in battle by stroke of luck)
No they appear in an empty slot in your party when walking g certain specific trails. you know you have succeeded when they appear in battle or when the squirrel shows up in your wait animation.
Never played any of the Suikoden games. Probably too old too enjoy this type of "JRPG Nonsense" as you put it. Good review as always though.
Off Topic, but check out Maneater if you haven't yet. Having a great time with it.
I liked Maneater a lot
Awesome review and going back memory lane . I agree with you 100% on this review.
Glad you enjoyed it