It doesn't matter, the payload is for safety and not to overload the drivetrain. The fact that it folded talks to the cheap sub-par metal modern trucks are made from.
Yeah ask any old welder about Cheap Chinesium metal, it sputters and spits while your cutting / welding on it.. Older steel from US factories literally suck the wire out of your mig gun..
The problem is on the new trucks they make the frames to rigid which makes them brittle. Ever noticed how much the frame flexes on an OBS Ford or 2nd Gen Dodge compared to the new trucks? That flex is a good thing with a load because it keeps it from breaking. We used to tow and haul with them way overloaded back in the day and never once broke a frame, in fact the only time I have ever seen one break on one of the old trucks is when it rusted in half after about 30 years of service in winter and salt. However the issue with the frames breaking seems to be far more common with the newer trucks.
thank you! informative and helpful since im new to diesel pick ups and pick ups in general so i guess even the older folks still learning? Makes me feel better just a bit 😁
Very informative, I was laughing to at the people saying the truck split in half bechause he went a couple hundred pounds over his payload. People exceed their payload quit a bit and never have an issue, it is the center of gravity of this load. Way to much weight behind the rear axle puts a lot of leverage of the frame, also the height and shape of the camper means the wind gets under the front overhang pushing up on the front and down on the rear which adds even more pressure.
33 plus years driving a semi, and when I first saw that picture, I knew exactly what happened to that frame. I am surprised that I have not seen more with these guys having the lights pointed to the heavens. I have way overloaded 1/2 ton pickups with the load properly balanced. My heaviest load, which I just went to the landfill 2 miles away, was 2500 lbs. She was squatting hard, and by in no way do I recommend doing this, it's very dangerous. I was on a dirt road and only driving 20 mph.
The newer trucks are being built with Ultra High Strength Steel frames, which applying any heat to the frame will change the molecules of the steel and weaken the strength of the frame. I seen one vehicle that had a utility bed added and was welded to the frame and the frame had snapped right next to the weld. Another one I saw was a brand new Cadillac Escalade that had mounts welded to frame to add an airbag suspension. All four corners of that frame shattered like glass when the vehicle hit the first dip in the road. I agree, it is hard to tell just by photographs the history of the vehicles with these failures and if heat was ever applied. My two cents.
I think a day cab pickup would handle the load better. The length of those mega-cab trucks is too long for the load, especially if too much weight is hanging off the rear.
These trucks should have a safety factor of at least 2x payload. The front wheels should come off the ground before the frame breaks. These Dodges are put together in Mexico with cheap Chinese steel. Buy American. Lesson learned.
@@mrrod3004 Yeah, but I won't buy them. I always look at the Vin and make sure it starts with a 1. Keep America Great. If we stand up and not buy the Mexican made pieces of shit this wouldnt happen.
It’s also common over here in Australia with our dual cab 4x4. Your better off with the same canopy on a single cab. That way you have some weight in front of the rear axle as well.
I would seriously take a closer look at this particular truck. Have no one ever seen a truck with to much weight behind the axle that the front tires came off the ground and the chassis never bent. It happens. This truck obviously had a flaw, an independent inspection of the frame may find something the manufacturer don't want you to discover. Just saying.
oh no doubt there is a defect in the frame.. no way it should snap like that... but the fact is he pushed it well past its rated limits.. when you do that all bets are off.. RAM has no requirement, nor is it a good idea for them to say. "sure its ok you used your vehicle in an unintended/unsafe manner will fix it for you any way" if he was under his maximum payload then he would have a case.. but there is no chance in hell he was.
This makes sense. Even the base model 3500 gas engine 2wd has the same frame. The same thin rigid boxed frame. With these new boxed frames it seems like weight distribution is more critical than with older trucks. The thinner material may fatigue or corrode sooner. And they should never build campers that cannot be mounted on a common 3500 dually.
100% agree on the camper manufacturer, RV builders and dealers do the same thing with travel trailers, they advertise very large "lightweight" trailers that can be towed with a 1500 truck or full size SUV. Towing a 30' box behind a 1500 Suburban is a bad idea, even if you are under your max tow rating, unless you have a $2500 sway elimination hitch, then maybe.
That's the reason we got rid of our 3500 dually and stepped up to a 4500. There was no way we were going to go full time and be over weight.... your just asking for problems. 😂
the commercial type chassis vehicles is the only way you could have a camper like that and not worry about the truck breaking. if you look at the allowable draw bar downward loading for a bumper pull it's a good idea of how much weight you can have hanging out over the rear axle. a 5th wheel hitch application puts the load directly onto the truck in a specific place that's been disigned and tested to handle the force applied . just because your stickers on the door said it can have a maximum amount of payload it doesn't mean you should, especially if it's bigger than the box space in the tub.
Even though I don't agree with what you are saying about payload, you are right that the practices of some camper manufacturers are shady inasmuch as stipulating correct dry and wet weights. Some of these big campers should not be in a pickup box, too big and too heavy. Dodge has a design flaw with the frame, engineering criteria for frame breakage is usually at a factor of 4. They need to fix their trucks and I think the other two manufacturers would agree with what I just said. Enjoy your vids.
Are you positive there are no frame reinforcements on the heavier duty trucks? Different truck, but on the Gladiator Mojave they explicitly add some reinforcements to the frame to handle a bit more abuse, and unless Jeep had specifically showed this in an Mojave overview video I'm not certain they would have been noticed by the jeep community right away. I believe Ford does the same on the Raptor. Other than that, I agree, the weight of the loaded camper and bike on the back very likely caused this frame buckling. Keep in mind that a weight with a lever arm (bike on the hitch) causes much more moment force the further away it is from the pivot point (rear axle).
I’m on my second ram I use 5500. The first one waited 24 five overload it but the wait was Stuart right for 270,000 miles no 2014 on this new one weighs 26,000 another 5500 2021 and he really has 86,000 miles no problem so I guess there’s a white center you will have no problem
I would not say that TFL got it all wrong but one thing that they did not talk about is the height of the centre of gravity of the load relative to the bed of the truck. I bought a slide in camper a while back and I could not find any specs from my truck manufacturer as to what is the maximum height of the centre of gravity of the pay load rating. The only guideline I came across was the max pay load rating applies only if the centre of gravity of the load is lower than the height of your truck box. As far as forces and moments that came into play in this failure, it would be valuable that someone with the proper engineering credential would analyze this failure.
I have a '98.5 Ram 2500 with the 5spd and a diesel. It has the snow plow package and camper package. Everything on it is the same as the heaviest version of the 3500 they had at the time. Dana 80 rear end and tons of leaf springs. The majority of the 3500s running around had fewer leafs and lighter duty suspension, yet mine is still only rated for 8800GVW. Considering the truck weight 7800lbs, that doesn't leave much room for payload even though the axle is rated at 12,000 pounds. On another note, the frames on the trucks don't seem to have a tremendous service factor built into them. I noticed my trucks doors would rub severely if you parked on uneven ground and the frame twisted severely. My '21 F-150 can be parked on the exact same ground and it is exactly the same length, yet the doors shut perfectly without any rubbing. I had a machine shop beef up the frame over the entire length of the truck. There is no way that the frame should bend or break in that situation. The ONLY way the frame should bend or break is if you had the front end held down and then applied a large weight to the rear, the fact that it broke or bent and didn't just life the front end is apalling.
I have a 94 ram 2500 5speed 4x4 with the 12v cummins. Mine is also the 8800 GVWR. It's kinda crazy low low its rated for payload and towing. Mine has definitely been over loaded (on paper) a couple times.
That camper weighs way more with 3 slides outs and it has a slide going out the back end of truck and it has a lot of camper hanging out the back and looks to be 4 ft that’s crazy and only way you can break the frame like that is because too much camper behind the rear axel .
I am sure the payload capacity is also a "cushioned" number so depending what thay guy was "carrying" in that camper in my opinion did it in. I also have a theory of maybe another factor could be a "jerky" driving style. When things are on the edge of capacity, any wrong fore or aft move can be damaging. I hope and pray he is ok and that his insurance will cover it.
Looking at how centered the camper is on the bed, you can see it is all the way forward to the bed rail. Not sure what else the guy could have done to avoid this, if there was a motorcycle that wouldn't have helped either. However, I am betting the real reason the truck folded was due to the frame weld locations. On these particular models, the weld would crack between the bed and cab. Then the frames split. Dodge has a recall on them for that reason.
Will my truck fold up with a Bigfoot truck camper 3400 lbs on a 3400 lb Bigfoot truck camper with 7000 air bags and big wig sway bar so with no water I should be cool with no 300lbs of water and pulling a heavy bass type jet boat with a 200?hp jet boat be hind would I be good ?
Look, I do get it it broke, but the thing is ram was saying oh fully box for him is the best no it’s not ever notice the Rams full box frame is really thin compared to a Toyota tundra triple check frame a lot of semi’s and medium duty trucks use open c frame
His truck broke due to leverage and weight distribution. My 2020 F550 Lariat towing wrecker just broke two days ago same exact place it now looks like a horseshoe.
The frame is designed to handle specific GVWR. A single cab version can handle 7000+ pounds, but still has a 14k GVWR, add bells and whistles, an extra row of seats and all of a sudden you've added 2000lbs worth of weight on top of the frame. You still only have a 14k gvwr. So this idea that your double cab fully optioned truck can handle just as much payload as your base model work truck if you just distribute the load properly is just nonsense.
Hey Genius--since the slide-in camper was ALL THE WAY FORWARD in the RAM 3500's bed, tell us, EXACTLY how the guy was supposed to "properly distribute the weight?" Also, if you look at the pics, the "motorcycle" on the back is most likely a twin to what looks like a "fat tire" bicycle or e-bike, rather than a motorcycle. But, do tell us how one would properly distribute the weight in the already-too-short shortbox, since the camper was all the way forward in that truck's box? What I agree with you about is the fact that the camper company is making a "slide-in camper" that is overweight for even the most capable, 1-ton dually's available in the consumer pickup truck market.
Bull shit! Any good engineer will know whatever you rate the load for saftey it needs to be tripled. So if youre driving any truck at max load capacity and drive over a pothole that load can be more than doubled when you hit it. All bolts chains and ropes have a saftey factor built in so when you use the rated load it can go three times as much or twice whatever it's designed for. If you put to much weight in the back the suspension should bottom out before anything fails or what good is that extra suspension? This is clearly a design flaw, and it doesn't take much more steel in that area to prevent this.
Personally, I believe it was the truck. I believe these size campers should only be loaded on a single cab 1 ton truck or 1 1/2 ton truck with a long bed dually.
You're wrong when you emphatically say, "The truck owner (meeting)/exceeding his payload capacity had NOTHING to do w/his truck frame snapping." 5000 + lbs (improperly, as you noted) loaded the way it was, combined w/the counter-acting weight of the engine, front suspension/steering, cab, etc., and the movement of everything due to suspension travel, road imperfections, wind, etc. broke his frame. Would an improperly loaded, 3000 lb. camper (in the exact same amount of time, over the same exact roads) have snapped his frame? If I had to place a bet, of which amount of (improperly loaded) weight would likely snap a truck frame, choosing between A: Weight just at, or over the truck's rated payload capacity, B: An amount of weight 2000 lbs below the truck's payload capacity. The choice would be obvious to you, me, anyone. You also stated quite assuredly that "It doesn't matter what his payload capacity was, it could have been 7,000 lbs, .....his truck would have still folded like a taco.". I guess you ran a real world, actual, physical test w/a higher payload Ram 3500 to prove your statement? Maybe at the very least, you're a seasoned, automotive structural engineer, and you ran multiple computer modeling "virtual", tests to unequivocally prove that a higher rated payload capacity Ram 3500 would have failed in exactly the same way, under the exact same circumstances?
The camper builders don’t help at all. Ever seen someone using those receiver extensions to reach out from under the tail of the camper. Dream truck: 5500 with an extra set of doors (3) and a 10 foot box.
"It doesn matter what option you have"... five seconds later "Combined with that heavy cummins diesel"... -> Yes. THAT's why the capacity is less. That what TFL said.
Well, no. If this camper was 6500 lbs improperly loaded vs properly loaded, it's still out of spec. The CG on an 1165 is supposedly 60.5", which is where it should be empty. As it's loaded with fluids the CG moves towards the cab, which is also how it should be. Last one of these I've seen there were tandem access doors at the cab bulkhead with access to the grey, black and fresh tanks. Both weight and cg matter. Overloaded is overloaded anyway you look at it, and considering this truck was on the move with a husband and wife and their stuff with a camper that when minimally spec'd and empty exceeds an F450 pickup payload - yes it's significantly overweight, not just a by a few hundred lbs.
F450 P/U is a fucking JOKE it is a F350 with a wider turning front axle.. same frame, same rear axle, same GVWR (14k).. only way to get higher than 14k is a cab and chassis 450/4500 (16500) or a 5500/550 (19500).. other than that you are stuck at the 14k.. and these trucks are weighing close to 10k without any additional cargo.. i love that people think the 450 P/U is a class 4 truck, but it just isnt.. no straight frame.. no difference.
@@ampgammer what do you have to say for the people who live in states where the GVWR doesn't matter? I hear time and time again from guys that buy 19.5" wheels and tires for their 8 bolt 2500/3500 trucks that the only regulations are based on wheel and tire load rating. If that's actually the case where they live, buying an F-450 with a 14K GVRW doesn't matter - and it comes setup from the factory with the 19.5" wheels/tires they want, with the benefit of having a much better turn radius, larger brakes, more robust front end with actual zerks on the joints, etc. The F-450 pickup is more arguably 95% of a CC truck less the C-Channel straight frame. If you run under wheel and tire load ratings, then it might make a lot of sense to some people to buy for that reason alone. They're not stupid trucks, as they come with a lot of upgrades for arguably the same price as the F350 DRW. If you don't want 19.5 wheels/tires and the 4.3:1 gear ratios, the F-350 might make more sense for you.
@@mechalchuk gvwr always matters to the truck. Maybe not for the license to operate it but the truck itself has clearly established limits on gvwr and gawr. Not needing a special license doesn't mean the truck isn't still beyond it's stated capabilities.
@@ampgammer Not according to the online community, or the aftermarket that sells suspension kits to assist your truck in carrying the weight it wasn't 'designed' to. I'm not talking about anything to do with commercial licenses or registration loopholes, but enforcement for exceeding GVWR on non-commercial vehicles really doesn't seem to exist - and in some cases appears it might not even matter of the rolling equipment can support the weight. It isn't something that makes sense to me and I don't agree with it, but there are thousands if not millions of people in the US who go by tire/axle/wheel rating instead of GVWR and don't run into issues with it - even when stopped or checked by enforcement.
@@ampgammer Maybe you missed the point of my original comment, but it I'm just pointing out that these campers when empty exceed the majority of F-450 pickup payloads. You could theoretically buy a gas powered F-350 without a sunroof, tailgate step, etc, etc and gain nearly 1600 lbs in payload, but realistically it'll still be overweight once it's loaded up. These are chassis cab focused campers. It's ultimately up to the buyer top decide if they can haul it or not - even if the manufacturer is showing these units on F-450 trucks on their website...
I think your logic and understanding of payload capacity is incorrect. You are correct that the frames are the same on that model of truck, but what made the lower level optioned truck in your example have 7,000 pds payload vs the 5,000 pds payload in the more optioned truck is that the lower optioned truck is lighter due to the fact that it has less weight on the truck from less options. In other words, the more optioned truck in your example has 2,000 more weight on the frame with nothing in the truck because all those options weigh 2,000 pds. If he would have put the camper in the less optioned truck, it could absorb the 5,000 pds because it had 2,000 pds room to spare. Whereas his optioned truck was already 2,000 pds on the frame above the less optioned truck and could not hold another 5,000 pds. Bottom line: the frames are the same, but maximum weight of a frame and payload capacity cannot be exceeded, and more optioned trucks use up some of the frame capacity with the extra weight of the options. I have not read through 109 comments but I am surprised the few that I read did not catch this.
Oh? I have yet to see welded tie-downs on this truck. There are several photos and videos of cracked-frame RAM trucks around lately, they all seem to be at the same spot. The failure on this ram doesn't appear to be any different. The front bed mount is welder on from stellantis and it splits at the weld seam. It's a factory weld.
That is not true, it does matter. I have a four door hemi 6.4 longbed and that camper gives me 1400# left over. He has a diesel which clearly puts him over weight. Even though we have the same frame. The difference is I wouldnt be over my payload when loaded. Not sure what your saying, that because we have the same frame it doesn’t matter. It absolutely matters. Im 800# lighter with my gas engine. That gives me 800 more lbs to load up. Simple math from a youtube engineer and keyboard warrior.
While your wrong about payload , if anyone really knew the story you would know that this guy drove that truck loaded like that for 25,000 miles before it happened . Plus the camper was welded to the frame which is the dumbest thing you can do .
It’s 5200 and that camper is between 65- 7500 lbs that truck should of been a 4500 or 5500 series and that is bone dry not counting any extras that can be added like generator and ac and with all the extra can be right at 1000 lbs extra and he had a custom front bumper and that’s what I can see . And you are totally wrong on this one because he is definitely way over weight and with a 4500-5500 cab and chassis you can get different wheel bases so you can get your rear axel closer to the rear of the truck and that way he could set it up with more weight on front axel and with that the weight would of been better distributed but with a 3500 with a truck bed is a no no . And there is no way to put that much weight on a 3500 that camper from what I read from Host is decked out is over 7 K and that’s the fact. But with a gas motor 2 wheel drive the work type truck is still to heavy for a 3500 truck .
going to try to explain this without writing a bible. So you are wrong on a number of different points. First the frame.. is NOT the same for all the different trucks.. a regular cab 8' bed truck vs a crew cab 8' bed... will be shorter. although thats besides the point.. the point is that the frame is rated to carry 14k gross vehicle weight.. meaning the total amount you can have going down the road without additional axles is 14k lbs.. (all class 3 trucks are the same). this means that the heavier load out (Diesel, 4x4, and options) all reduce the available payload capacity. his truck is heavier with nothing in it so thats why his payload is less. Next as an owner of an Eagle cap camper i can say without a doubt 100% he is over loaded.. likely around 16k going down the road without the motorcycle on the back.. any other information is kind of mute.. now onto the position of the camper on the bed.. these campers are designed around an 8' bed, and have a mark for the COG which should be within 2 or 3" of the axle on any standard 8' bed.. it looks like there is a lot of weight off the back, but there really isnt. and my last comment.. this actually falls far more on the camper manufacturers for not being honest about what their trucks weigh. that dry weight is "without options" but these campers have a bunch of very heavy "mandatory" options. none of these are any where near that advertised dry weight... its all a way for them to ensure people buy their equipment... i really dont understand whats so hard about understanding payload vs gvwr.. blows my mind..
Well, for heavens sake! Just by looking at the photos...he tried to put a huge camper on a short box truck. Duh....of course it caved in! What part of that seemed like a good idea?? My Dad had an F-250 camper special with a FULL SIZE box. He put overload leaf springs on it & it carried our 11.5 ft camper all over the place. This disaster is like trying to put Shaq on a pony...sheesh...🙄
Can we just stop curving the frames on trucks and go with a cab and chassis flat frame style please. What’s the benefit to “curving the frame” on pickup trucks?? Just stop!
can't buy payload has nothing to do with breakage of frame- you need to take another look at the picture. also diesel and trim levels take away from net payload due to their extra weight. apparently molar doesn't agree with you either because they won't pay for overload.
Truck was clearly overloaded and miles off on center of gravity. And to claim that weight had nothing to do with the failure is a useless statement that is factually incorrect. Perhaps we could build a camper out of cardboard at the exact same size and center of gravity specs, and see if that frame will bend. My guess is nothing will happen. Weight had everything to do with the failure right along with the C.O.G.
Exactly. I can't believe the dude that made this video and the majority of people commenting on here don't understand this... In one breath he'll argue that the camper weight had nothing to do this, that he doesn't know how much the camper weighed, doesn't know what the payload is and that the CG was the issue and that he doesn't know what the CG is... ~60.5" is the answer for the empty camper, which is directly over the axle of an 8ft boxed crew cab. As the camper receives fluids and the cabinets in the bunk get filled, that CG moves FORWARD. Is it aft heavy? The image looks like it is, but that doesn't mean anything. These units are ~6500 lbs when loaded up and out and about. CC trucks have essentially the SAME cab to axle length as 8ft box pickups at 60"... so tell me again how this was ONLY CG and unrelated to weight....
@B C again, once you find one of anything, it becomes easy to find 100 examples. This problem really doesn't surprise me though. There's a reason semi trucks don't have boxed frames. They need to flex, and these new trucks, all of them, can't flex because it looks bad to the consumer.
Ram looks great but ranked least reliable and worst resale. I just sold two chrysler products so i speak from experience. The 1500 trans is made of glass unlike the 2500 and up.
I have a 2018 Ram 1500 tradesmen 4x4 eco-diesel with 9speed transmission with over 348,000 miles on it and I’ve towed my trailer with my bolens 4 x 4 diesel tractor with front loader backhoe on the trailer almost all of 348,000 miles and my transmission still works great but I do add every hundred thousand miles change the transmission transfer case third members oil like I do on my diesel engine every 5000 miles and yes I do use Amsoil on all the components so my Ram must not have a glass transmission or anything else on it
My 2011 1500 with 220k orig driverain trans shifts flawless I tow alot the only time trans will have issues is if they are not maintained. Where as fords just go bad under normal driving conditions lmao.
Also those camper have 60 gallon water holding tank times 8 lbs gallon almost 500 lbs there my old 6 pak 8 footer weights 1640 empty on old Chevy 1 ton 4x4 hardly know camper is there 350 4 speed hope Mopar helps the guy,, ,,🇺🇲🇺🇲🪖 DAV
Bud, you hit the nail on the head. That’s what I thought when I saw the picture’s.
It doesn't matter, the payload is for safety and not to overload the drivetrain. The fact that it folded talks to the cheap sub-par metal modern trucks are made from.
Yeah ask any old welder about Cheap Chinesium metal, it sputters and spits while your cutting / welding on it.. Older steel from US factories literally suck the wire out of your mig gun..
Your 100% right first thing i thought when i saw the picture.
The problem is on the new trucks they make the frames to rigid which makes them brittle. Ever noticed how much the frame flexes on an OBS Ford or 2nd Gen Dodge compared to the new trucks? That flex is a good thing with a load because it keeps it from breaking. We used to tow and haul with them way overloaded back in the day and never once broke a frame, in fact the only time I have ever seen one break on one of the old trucks is when it rusted in half after about 30 years of service in winter and salt. However the issue with the frames breaking seems to be far more common with the newer trucks.
thank you! informative and helpful since im new to diesel pick ups and pick ups in general so i guess even the older folks still learning? Makes me feel better just a bit 😁
Very informative, I was laughing to at the people saying the truck split in half bechause he went a couple hundred pounds over his payload. People exceed their payload quit a bit and never have an issue, it is the center of gravity of this load. Way to much weight behind the rear axle puts a lot of leverage of the frame, also the height and shape of the camper means the wind gets under the front overhang pushing up on the front and down on the rear which adds even more pressure.
33 plus years driving a semi, and when I first saw that picture, I knew exactly what happened to that frame. I am surprised that I have not seen more with these guys having the lights pointed to the heavens. I have way overloaded 1/2 ton pickups with the load properly balanced. My heaviest load, which I just went to the landfill 2 miles away, was 2500 lbs. She was squatting hard, and by in no way do I recommend doing this, it's very dangerous. I was on a dirt road and only driving 20 mph.
Awesome video. Thank you.
The newer trucks are being built with Ultra High Strength Steel frames, which applying any heat to the frame will change the molecules of the steel and weaken the strength of the frame. I seen one vehicle that had a utility bed added and was welded to the frame and the frame had snapped right next to the weld. Another one I saw was a brand new Cadillac Escalade that had mounts welded to frame to add an airbag suspension. All four corners of that frame shattered like glass when the vehicle hit the first dip in the road. I agree, it is hard to tell just by photographs the history of the vehicles with these failures and if heat was ever applied. My two cents.
I think a day cab pickup would handle the load better. The length of those mega-cab trucks is too long for the load, especially if too much weight is hanging off the rear.
These trucks should have a safety factor of at least 2x payload. The front wheels should come off the ground before the frame breaks. These Dodges are put together in Mexico with cheap Chinese steel. Buy American. Lesson learned.
Gm ans Ford also build in Mexico...
@@mrrod3004 Yeah, but I won't buy them. I always look at the Vin and make sure it starts with a 1. Keep America Great. If we stand up and not buy the Mexican made pieces of shit this wouldnt happen.
I agree with you 100%. The rear weight bias is due to the design of the camper.
It’s also common over here in Australia with our dual cab 4x4.
Your better off with the same canopy on a single cab.
That way you have some weight in front of the rear axle as well.
That makes sense thanks for explaining
I would seriously take a closer look at this particular truck. Have no one ever seen a truck with to much weight behind the axle that the front tires came off the ground and the chassis never bent. It happens. This truck obviously had a flaw, an independent inspection of the frame may find something the manufacturer don't want you to discover. Just saying.
oh no doubt there is a defect in the frame.. no way it should snap like that... but the fact is he pushed it well past its rated limits.. when you do that all bets are off.. RAM has no requirement, nor is it a good idea for them to say. "sure its ok you used your vehicle in an unintended/unsafe manner will fix it for you any way" if he was under his maximum payload then he would have a case.. but there is no chance in hell he was.
I would expect a 3500 Dually to haul anything I could attach , pull or push. Not saying much for RAM.
FINALLY someone gets it right.
You dont have to be physics major to understand leverage. I really llike the ones who shine thier headlights into the sky.
This makes sense. Even the base model 3500 gas engine 2wd has the same frame. The same thin rigid boxed frame. With these new boxed frames it seems like weight distribution is more critical than with older trucks. The thinner material may fatigue or corrode sooner. And they should never build campers that cannot be mounted on a common 3500 dually.
100% agree on the camper manufacturer, RV builders and dealers do the same thing with travel trailers, they advertise very large "lightweight" trailers that can be towed with a 1500 truck or full size SUV. Towing a 30' box behind a 1500 Suburban is a bad idea, even if you are under your max tow rating, unless you have a $2500 sway elimination hitch, then maybe.
That's the reason we got rid of our 3500 dually and stepped up to a 4500. There was no way we were going to go full time and be over weight.... your just asking for problems. 😂
You are 100% correct!
Exactly! 👏🏽 A semi frame would fold too , if the weight is not properly distributed.
the commercial type chassis vehicles is the only way you could have a camper like that and not worry about the truck breaking. if you look at the allowable draw bar downward loading for a bumper pull it's a good idea of how much weight you can have hanging out over the rear axle. a 5th wheel hitch application puts the load directly onto the truck in a specific place that's been disigned and tested to handle the force applied . just because your stickers on the door said it can have a maximum amount of payload it doesn't mean you should, especially if it's bigger than the box space in the tub.
Even though I don't agree with what you are saying about payload, you are right that the practices of some camper manufacturers are shady inasmuch as stipulating correct dry and wet weights. Some of these big campers should not be in a pickup box, too big and too heavy. Dodge has a design flaw with the frame, engineering criteria for frame breakage is usually at a factor of 4. They need to fix their trucks and I think the other two manufacturers would agree with what I just said. Enjoy your vids.
Are you positive there are no frame reinforcements on the heavier duty trucks? Different truck, but on the Gladiator Mojave they explicitly add some reinforcements to the frame to handle a bit more abuse, and unless Jeep had specifically showed this in an Mojave overview video I'm not certain they would have been noticed by the jeep community right away. I believe Ford does the same on the Raptor.
Other than that, I agree, the weight of the loaded camper and bike on the back very likely caused this frame buckling. Keep in mind that a weight with a lever arm (bike on the hitch) causes much more moment force the further away it is from the pivot point (rear axle).
I’m on my second ram I use 5500. The first one waited 24 five overload it but the wait was Stuart right for 270,000 miles no 2014 on this new one weighs 26,000 another 5500 2021 and he really has 86,000 miles no problem so I guess there’s a white center you will have no problem
Lol... every Mazda B owner always over loaded thier trucks and they never folded lol... you should never be breaking frames.
I would not say that TFL got it all wrong but one thing that they did not talk about is the height of the centre of gravity of the load relative to the bed of the truck. I bought a slide in camper a while back and I could not find any specs from my truck manufacturer as to what is the maximum height of the centre of gravity of the pay load rating. The only guideline I came across was the max pay load rating applies only if the centre of gravity of the load is lower than the height of your truck box. As far as forces and moments that came into play in this failure, it would be valuable that someone with the proper engineering credential would analyze this failure.
I have a '98.5 Ram 2500 with the 5spd and a diesel. It has the snow plow package and camper package. Everything on it is the same as the heaviest version of the 3500 they had at the time. Dana 80 rear end and tons of leaf springs. The majority of the 3500s running around had fewer leafs and lighter duty suspension, yet mine is still only rated for 8800GVW. Considering the truck weight 7800lbs, that doesn't leave much room for payload even though the axle is rated at 12,000 pounds. On another note, the frames on the trucks don't seem to have a tremendous service factor built into them. I noticed my trucks doors would rub severely if you parked on uneven ground and the frame twisted severely. My '21 F-150 can be parked on the exact same ground and it is exactly the same length, yet the doors shut perfectly without any rubbing. I had a machine shop beef up the frame over the entire length of the truck.
There is no way that the frame should bend or break in that situation. The ONLY way the frame should bend or break is if you had the front end held down and then applied a large weight to the rear, the fact that it broke or bent and didn't just life the front end is apalling.
I have a 94 ram 2500 5speed 4x4 with the 12v cummins. Mine is also the 8800 GVWR. It's kinda crazy low low its rated for payload and towing. Mine has definitely been over loaded (on paper) a couple times.
@@Texas12valve Yeah. These are rated to tow about the same as my '21 F-150, 13-14K pounds, but in reality the Dodge handles it much better.
@kdw75 oh yeah. Even though my 17 ram 1500 can tow 9k the older 2500 will handle it much better
That camper weighs way more with 3 slides outs and it has a slide going out the back end of truck and it has a lot of camper hanging out the back and looks to be 4 ft that’s crazy and only way you can break the frame like that is because too much camper behind the rear axel .
I am sure the payload capacity is also a "cushioned" number so depending what thay guy was "carrying" in that camper in my opinion did it in. I also have a theory of maybe another factor could be a "jerky" driving style. When things are on the edge of capacity, any wrong fore or aft move can be damaging. I hope and pray he is ok and that his insurance will cover it.
Looking at how centered the camper is on the bed, you can see it is all the way forward to the bed rail. Not sure what else the guy could have done to avoid this, if there was a motorcycle that wouldn't have helped either. However, I am betting the real reason the truck folded was due to the frame weld locations. On these particular models, the weld would crack between the bed and cab. Then the frames split. Dodge has a recall on them for that reason.
Will my truck fold up with a Bigfoot truck camper 3400 lbs on a 3400 lb Bigfoot truck camper with 7000 air bags and big wig sway bar so with no water I should be cool with no 300lbs of water and pulling a heavy bass type jet boat with a 200?hp jet boat be hind would I be good ?
never happen to an old one
Look, I do get it it broke, but the thing is ram was saying oh fully box for him is the best no it’s not ever notice the Rams full box frame is really thin compared to a Toyota tundra triple check frame a lot of semi’s and medium duty trucks use open c frame
His truck broke due to leverage and weight distribution. My 2020 F550 Lariat towing wrecker just broke two days ago same exact place it now looks like a horseshoe.
The frame is designed to handle specific GVWR. A single cab version can handle 7000+ pounds, but still has a 14k GVWR, add bells and whistles, an extra row of seats and all of a sudden you've added 2000lbs worth of weight on top of the frame. You still only have a 14k gvwr. So this idea that your double cab fully optioned truck can handle just as much payload as your base model work truck if you just distribute the load properly is just nonsense.
Hey Genius--since the slide-in camper was ALL THE WAY FORWARD in the RAM 3500's bed, tell us, EXACTLY how the guy was supposed to "properly distribute the weight?" Also, if you look at the pics, the "motorcycle" on the back is most likely a twin to what looks like a "fat tire" bicycle or e-bike, rather than a motorcycle. But, do tell us how one would properly distribute the weight in the already-too-short shortbox, since the camper was all the way forward in that truck's box?
What I agree with you about is the fact that the camper company is making a "slide-in camper" that is overweight for even the most capable, 1-ton dually's available in the consumer pickup truck market.
It's funny I've never seen a Ford do this.
Bull shit! Any good engineer will know whatever you rate the load for saftey it needs to be tripled. So if youre driving any truck at max load capacity and drive over a pothole that load can be more than doubled when you hit it.
All bolts chains and ropes have a saftey factor built in so when you use the rated load it can go three times as much or twice whatever it's designed for.
If you put to much weight in the back the suspension should bottom out before anything fails or what good is that extra suspension?
This is clearly a design flaw, and it doesn't take much more steel in that area to prevent this.
Personally, I believe it was the truck. I believe these size campers should only be loaded on a single cab 1 ton truck or 1 1/2 ton truck with a long bed dually.
You're wrong when you emphatically say, "The truck owner (meeting)/exceeding his payload capacity had NOTHING to do w/his truck frame snapping." 5000 + lbs (improperly, as you noted) loaded the way it was, combined w/the counter-acting weight of the engine, front suspension/steering, cab, etc., and the movement of everything due to suspension travel, road imperfections, wind, etc. broke his frame. Would an improperly loaded, 3000 lb. camper (in the exact same amount of time, over the same exact roads) have snapped his frame? If I had to place a bet, of which amount of (improperly loaded) weight would likely snap a truck frame, choosing between A: Weight just at, or over the truck's rated payload capacity, B: An amount of weight 2000 lbs below the truck's payload capacity. The choice would be obvious to you, me, anyone. You also stated quite assuredly that "It doesn't matter what his payload capacity was, it could have been 7,000 lbs, .....his truck would have still folded like a taco.". I guess you ran a real world, actual, physical test w/a higher payload Ram 3500 to prove your statement? Maybe at the very least, you're a seasoned, automotive structural engineer, and you ran multiple computer modeling "virtual", tests to unequivocally prove that a higher rated payload capacity Ram 3500 would have failed in exactly the same way, under the exact same circumstances?
That was my first question why make them if no truck can handle it
The camper builders don’t help at all. Ever seen someone using those receiver extensions to reach out from under the tail of the camper. Dream truck: 5500 with an extra set of doors (3) and a 10 foot box.
"It doesn matter what option you have"... five seconds later "Combined with that heavy cummins diesel"... -> Yes. THAT's why the capacity is less. That what TFL said.
If it had a gas engine instead of the Cummins, it probably would have just done a wheelie.
Yes Sir
Agreed
Its weight distribution not centering. Moments of torque et .
My Lance I swear is only 2500 full
Well, no. If this camper was 6500 lbs improperly loaded vs properly loaded, it's still out of spec. The CG on an 1165 is supposedly 60.5", which is where it should be empty. As it's loaded with fluids the CG moves towards the cab, which is also how it should be. Last one of these I've seen there were tandem access doors at the cab bulkhead with access to the grey, black and fresh tanks. Both weight and cg matter. Overloaded is overloaded anyway you look at it, and considering this truck was on the move with a husband and wife and their stuff with a camper that when minimally spec'd and empty exceeds an F450 pickup payload - yes it's significantly overweight, not just a by a few hundred lbs.
F450 P/U is a fucking JOKE it is a F350 with a wider turning front axle.. same frame, same rear axle, same GVWR (14k).. only way to get higher than 14k is a cab and chassis 450/4500 (16500) or a 5500/550 (19500).. other than that you are stuck at the 14k.. and these trucks are weighing close to 10k without any additional cargo.. i love that people think the 450 P/U is a class 4 truck, but it just isnt.. no straight frame.. no difference.
@@ampgammer what do you have to say for the people who live in states where the GVWR doesn't matter? I hear time and time again from guys that buy 19.5" wheels and tires for their 8 bolt 2500/3500 trucks that the only regulations are based on wheel and tire load rating.
If that's actually the case where they live, buying an F-450 with a 14K GVRW doesn't matter - and it comes setup from the factory with the 19.5" wheels/tires they want, with the benefit of having a much better turn radius, larger brakes, more robust front end with actual zerks on the joints, etc.
The F-450 pickup is more arguably 95% of a CC truck less the C-Channel straight frame. If you run under wheel and tire load ratings, then it might make a lot of sense to some people to buy for that reason alone.
They're not stupid trucks, as they come with a lot of upgrades for arguably the same price as the F350 DRW. If you don't want 19.5 wheels/tires and the 4.3:1 gear ratios, the F-350 might make more sense for you.
@@mechalchuk gvwr always matters to the truck. Maybe not for the license to operate it but the truck itself has clearly established limits on gvwr and gawr. Not needing a special license doesn't mean the truck isn't still beyond it's stated capabilities.
@@ampgammer Not according to the online community, or the aftermarket that sells suspension kits to assist your truck in carrying the weight it wasn't 'designed' to.
I'm not talking about anything to do with commercial licenses or registration loopholes, but enforcement for exceeding GVWR on non-commercial vehicles really doesn't seem to exist - and in some cases appears it might not even matter of the rolling equipment can support the weight.
It isn't something that makes sense to me and I don't agree with it, but there are thousands if not millions of people in the US who go by tire/axle/wheel rating instead of GVWR and don't run into issues with it - even when stopped or checked by enforcement.
@@ampgammer Maybe you missed the point of my original comment, but it I'm just pointing out that these campers when empty exceed the majority of F-450 pickup payloads.
You could theoretically buy a gas powered F-350 without a sunroof, tailgate step, etc, etc and gain nearly 1600 lbs in payload, but realistically it'll still be overweight once it's loaded up. These are chassis cab focused campers. It's ultimately up to the buyer top decide if they can haul it or not - even if the manufacturer is showing these units on F-450 trucks on their website...
I think your logic and understanding of payload capacity is incorrect. You are correct that the frames are the same on that model of truck, but what made the lower level optioned truck in your example have 7,000 pds payload vs the 5,000 pds payload in the more optioned truck is that the lower optioned truck is lighter due to the fact that it has less weight on the truck from less options. In other words, the more optioned truck in your example has 2,000 more weight on the frame with nothing in the truck because all those options weigh 2,000 pds. If he would have put the camper in the less optioned truck, it could absorb the 5,000 pds because it had 2,000 pds room to spare. Whereas his optioned truck was already 2,000 pds on the frame above the less optioned truck and could not hold another 5,000 pds. Bottom line: the frames are the same, but maximum weight of a frame and payload capacity cannot be exceeded, and more optioned trucks use up some of the frame capacity with the extra weight of the options. I have not read through 109 comments but I am surprised the few that I read did not catch this.
BS. He was doomed as soon as they welded the camper supports to the frame. You can see other pictures that show it broke right at the welds.
Oh? I have yet to see welded tie-downs on this truck. There are several photos and videos of cracked-frame RAM trucks around lately, they all seem to be at the same spot. The failure on this ram doesn't appear to be any different. The front bed mount is welder on from stellantis and it splits at the weld seam. It's a factory weld.
That is not true, it does matter. I have a four door hemi 6.4 longbed and that camper gives me 1400# left over. He has a diesel which clearly puts him over weight. Even though we have the same frame. The difference is I wouldnt be over my payload when loaded. Not sure what your saying, that because we have the same frame it doesn’t matter. It absolutely matters. Im 800# lighter with my gas engine. That gives me 800 more lbs to load up. Simple math from a youtube engineer and keyboard warrior.
While your wrong about payload , if anyone really knew the story you would know that this guy drove that truck loaded like that for 25,000 miles before it happened . Plus the camper was welded to the frame which is the dumbest thing you can do .
wait you are telling me he welded it to the frame? how do you even do that?? haha
💋.....If you are silly enough to buy it, a company is happy enough to sell it to you, and smile as you take it away......👠
That’s a long box camper and yes there is a sticker on the camper that tells you center of gravity. Thanks for the video.
It’s 5200 and that camper is between 65- 7500 lbs that truck should of been a 4500 or 5500 series and that is bone dry not counting any extras that can be added like generator and ac and with all the extra can be right at 1000 lbs extra and he had a custom front bumper and that’s what I can see . And you are totally wrong on this one because he is definitely way over weight and with a 4500-5500 cab and chassis you can get different wheel bases so you can get your rear axel closer to the rear of the truck and that way he could set it up with more weight on front axel and with that the weight would of been better distributed but with a 3500 with a truck bed is a no no . And there is no way to put that much weight on a 3500 that camper from what I read from Host is decked out is over 7 K and that’s the fact. But with a gas motor 2 wheel drive the work type truck is still to heavy for a 3500 truck .
Camper is just tooobig for pu why notpull a tt 4x4 with camper tha big crazy
Distribution plus box frame, what if it was a c channel, would it bend the frame irreparably or still snap?
going to try to explain this without writing a bible. So you are wrong on a number of different points. First the frame.. is NOT the same for all the different trucks.. a regular cab 8' bed truck vs a crew cab 8' bed... will be shorter. although thats besides the point.. the point is that the frame is rated to carry 14k gross vehicle weight.. meaning the total amount you can have going down the road without additional axles is 14k lbs.. (all class 3 trucks are the same). this means that the heavier load out (Diesel, 4x4, and options) all reduce the available payload capacity. his truck is heavier with nothing in it so thats why his payload is less. Next as an owner of an Eagle cap camper i can say without a doubt 100% he is over loaded.. likely around 16k going down the road without the motorcycle on the back.. any other information is kind of mute..
now onto the position of the camper on the bed.. these campers are designed around an 8' bed, and have a mark for the COG which should be within 2 or 3" of the axle on any standard 8' bed.. it looks like there is a lot of weight off the back, but there really isnt. and my last comment.. this actually falls far more on the camper manufacturers for not being honest about what their trucks weigh. that dry weight is "without options" but these campers have a bunch of very heavy "mandatory" options. none of these are any where near that advertised dry weight... its all a way for them to ensure people buy their equipment...
i really dont understand whats so hard about understanding payload vs gvwr.. blows my mind..
Shit Happend
Well, for heavens sake! Just by looking at the photos...he tried to put a huge camper on a short box truck. Duh....of course it caved in! What part of that seemed like a good idea?? My Dad had an F-250 camper special with a FULL SIZE box. He put overload leaf springs on it & it carried our 11.5 ft camper all over the place. This disaster is like trying to put Shaq on a pony...sheesh...🙄
Can we just stop curving the frames on trucks and go with a cab and chassis flat frame style please. What’s the benefit to “curving the frame” on pickup trucks?? Just stop!
can't buy payload has nothing to do with breakage of frame- you need to take another look at the picture. also
diesel and trim levels take away from net payload due to their extra weight. apparently molar doesn't agree
with you either because they won't pay for overload.
Truck was clearly overloaded and miles off on center of gravity.
And to claim that weight had nothing to do with the failure is a useless statement that is factually incorrect.
Perhaps we could build a camper out of cardboard at the exact same size and center of gravity specs, and see if that frame will bend.
My guess is nothing will happen.
Weight had everything to do with the failure right along with the C.O.G.
Exactly. I can't believe the dude that made this video and the majority of people commenting on here don't understand this... In one breath he'll argue that the camper weight had nothing to do this, that he doesn't know how much the camper weighed, doesn't know what the payload is and that the CG was the issue and that he doesn't know what the CG is... ~60.5" is the answer for the empty camper, which is directly over the axle of an 8ft boxed crew cab. As the camper receives fluids and the cabinets in the bunk get filled, that CG moves FORWARD. Is it aft heavy? The image looks like it is, but that doesn't mean anything. These units are ~6500 lbs when loaded up and out and about. CC trucks have essentially the SAME cab to axle length as 8ft box pickups at 60"... so tell me again how this was ONLY CG and unrelated to weight....
It's a Chrysler that company has been building garbage since there doors opened
It takes 2 minutes to find an example of every brand truck bent the same way. Don't be lazy and just blame one manufacturer.
@@jasonfalk7696 Late model HD Rams are quickly becoming notorious for this exact type of frame failure.
@B C again, once you find one of anything, it becomes easy to find 100 examples. This problem really doesn't surprise me though. There's a reason semi trucks don't have boxed frames. They need to flex, and these new trucks, all of them, can't flex because it looks bad to the consumer.
@@jasonfalk7696 You *can’t* find 100 examples of either late model Ford SD or GM HD failing in this manner.
@@BC08 you can't find 100 Rams either. I was making trying to make a point. Obviously, that failed... 😅
Get to the point. I am watching at 1.t speed and bored hard way through the video
just buy a class C and be done with it problem solved
Built Ram Tough
Ram looks great but ranked least reliable and worst resale. I just sold two chrysler products so i speak from experience. The 1500 trans is made of glass unlike the 2500 and up.
I have a 2018 Ram 1500 tradesmen 4x4 eco-diesel with 9speed transmission with over 348,000 miles on it and I’ve towed my trailer with my bolens 4 x 4 diesel tractor with front loader backhoe on the trailer almost all of 348,000 miles and my transmission still works great but I do add every hundred thousand miles change the transmission transfer case third members oil like I do on my diesel engine every 5000 miles and yes I do use Amsoil on all the components so my Ram must not have a glass transmission or anything else on it
My 2011 1500 with 220k orig driverain trans shifts flawless I tow alot the only time trans will have issues is if they are not maintained. Where as fords just go bad under normal driving conditions lmao.
Also those camper have 60 gallon water holding tank times 8 lbs gallon almost 500 lbs there my old 6 pak 8 footer weights 1640 empty on old Chevy 1 ton 4x4 hardly know camper is there 350 4 speed hope Mopar helps the guy,, ,,🇺🇲🇺🇲🪖 DAV