Your channel is the reason I adopted 3 rats! Absolutely adore them, and am constantly trying to improve my knowledge to provide the best quality care. Thanks for sharing all this information about small furries 😁
Always nice to see Fleet in a video :) I adopted his brother Aurum, and Fleet is like a little gold mirror image. Aurum passed in April unfortunately, so its great to see Fleet still doing well. We still have his brother Lupinus and his son Mars. We love our rescue boys so much, so friendly and cuddly, and never a problem with the other mice. I have found that rescues generally live longer as well, despite all ours being inbred haha
So sorry to hear he passed! I think if I worked it out correctly they both would have been 2 around this time? He’s definitely feeling like a frail old man but I hope I still have more time with him
@@Emiology Yes I think you're right, end of June I have written down somewhere. Aurum had an ear infection last summer and was always a little bit frail after that... Lupi is doing great though, I'm hoping he will make it till his birthday :) Is Fleet noisy? Our boys are super talkative haha.
I've wanted rats for a long time, even before your channel. and I'll have to admit... if I didn't find your channel, I'd have very unhappy Rats. all these videos are wonderful and so helpful.
I rescued 5 rats bc in my area was a big emergency case with 700(!) rescued rats, all from one home... The people who rescued them and helped all the mothers and babies were absolute heros and I wanted to help and not buy some from breeders bc what other chance would all these rats have? Many found new homes, still many searching for a home
I just adopted my first mouse last week! I named him Harry, he's Black and White and so friendly. He was no longer wanted because he smelled too much. He's adorable and I love him so much I don't mind he's a little stinky.
I only rescue mice, rats, and hamsters. I've had a great experiences with all the ones I have adopted over the last 8 years. They've all been lovely little ones with minimal health issues and good life spans. All of them were very friendly as well
“Some of you may be shaking your head not agreeing with me at all” * me nodding the entire time* 😭❤️ I 100% understand and agree with what you said!! I’ll probably adopt/rescue most of my “pocket pets” (rabbits, rodents, reptiles, etc) where as dogs I’ll buy from reputable breeders because of my smaller animals. Safety is always important… plus I want very specific breeds of dogs so adopting also may not work. I will be adopting/rescuing any cats though! Once it comes time for me to open up my own pet store (mainly because I want to spread proper care information) I will be going to the best breeders and those I trust to get some rodents that I’ll, responsibly, breed:) I also plan to have a no kill shelter and to be a goat farmer! I’ve always loved animals and everyone has always said that I’m an “animal lover” but I don’t think they thought it’d come this far 😂 my dad believes fish belong in bowls… 😬 I bought my first rat when I was about 11 and am now 13 and know so much about animals!! You definitely are a huge part of who I am today!! Thank you Emi❤ can’t wait to see the new babies 🥰
I own a mousery and yeah, I can echo these issues. While I have noticed a difference in temperament in my mice vs the mice I rescue, I haven’t noticed a major difference in health. In fact, the reason “show mice” may live shorter is due to the fact they’re bred larger- similar to dogs, smaller mice have been shown to live longer. I also agree with the huge issue of husbandry.. unfortunately most mice breeders think that smaller cages are better for mice because even really cluttered large cages will cause the mice to kill eachother and be aggressive and fearful 🤭 yeah, I’ve had one of the most popular breeders here in the USA tell me that, and unfortunately they work as a mentor to many other breeders.
It does seem like a lot of the younger breeders are mentored by the old school breeders, a lot of things that seem out dated in the rat breeding world are still common practice in the mouse breeding world and there doesn't seem to be much change. The reputable rat breeders I support have their rats in active enriching cages with their friends with foraging toys, multiple hammocks and hides etc whereas the 'reputable' mouse breeders use rack systems as permanent homes (i'm not against using them as maternity cages) for all of their mice for their entire lives, with just a pile of nesting material and a toilet roll. I can't get behind that :(
Totally understandable! I've had a very opposite experience with rescues vs breeder mice, especially with temperament, but I did have to drive 3 hours to get to the breeder I picked!
@@Emiology Honestly if you have had good experienced of rescuing makes totally sence to continue to rescue, doesn't mean that there isn't some good breeders too but if it doesn't seem to make much of a difference.
Totally understandable! I can’t wait to meet your new mice! Even though I’m here for the rat side of your videos I love these videos nonetheless! Hope your elbow is okay lol x
I've adopted rats and I've had them from a good breeder. I have to say, in rats, there's a really clear difference between the behaviors. My breeder rats have so much confidence. But other rodents I've adopted I've never really noticed a marked different between breeder or rescue. So why not rescue? Your decision makes sense to me based on my experience.
Hey Emi!!! I love your vids - I am getting two female rats in just two weeks, and I was hoping you could do a reacting to rat cages so I can show you my rat cage so far?? (I am open to absolutely any suggestions I want my rats to have the best life
We actually went back & adopted one and we are so glad we went back. He was by himself and seems the exact same age as another boy we found. There were 3 left. ****o.c. Our local pound had 6 rats. We were thrilled. But they we all intact and very aggressive. They seperated most of them. I was bitten by 3 of them. I dont mind because they are stressed out. The whole thing stressed me out, too!!! We are signing up to go through the volunteer workshop so we can at least volunteer to play with rodents and see if it helps make them adoptable. 😣
I agree with you on all your points. I've seen the same thing here in the US. I even befriended the mouse breeder I choose. But I don't see any difference between her mice and my rescues. Love these talking videos!!
I will most likely always get my working dogs from reputable breeders after seeing the difference in working with my adopted assistance dog and my assistance dog puppy who was from a reputable breeder. However I will probably always choose adoption for pet animals if I can find a suitable one to adopt as all of my adopted pets have been great.
Ugh, I definitely got mice and I’m a new rat owner…I got them from the feeder bins at the local pet store *cringe x 5000*. So Alaska only allows Albino mice/rats and there are no breeders up here, the only place you can get them is from the feeder bins 🤦🏻♀️ The rats are very young, regardless they will take a while to come around. Big break through the last few days tho: both coming out for meat baby food and crawling on my hand and they LOVED the fresh broccoli/carrots that I offered them. I’ve learned everything about caring for these sweet angels ** from you! So thank you for what you do with small animals and holding a very high standard.🐁🐁
Got two baby girl rats today, ten weeks old. Called one Squirrel due to her squirrel like ears, the other is a copper and I’ve named her Thistle. I was weeding the lawn and the name came to me. Group of four after introductions. Love mice but wouldn’t keep them
I don't have mice, only rats, but given the breeder situation where I live, I have also decided to only rescue from now on. I have looked for breeders, but I just couldn't get on board with the ethic: culling, focusing on physical health at the expense of enrichment, having a large number of litters at once and giving out bad information. Luckily a lot of rescues here often have pregnant rats come in and have the babies grow up in foster care, so at least they should be well socialized. That is my hope. Already thinking of getting two new babies in a few weeks/months.
I would love to breed mice on a small scale some day, they’re one of my favourite creatures but in Ireland they’re often terribly bred. I’ve been talking to a lot of breeders online and unfortunately there seems to be no way around the culling issue. I’ve even been told by a few that in the beginning, when they didn’t want to cull any babies, they lost entire litters and even moms out of exhaustion. So, I think if culling turns you off, adoption is definitely the route to go as opposed to a breeder who doesn’t cull and therefore puts strain on the mother. At least, in my opinion.
Yes, I can understand why culling needs to occur and out of all of the other concerns I have it’s bottom of the list, and not even a concern really as I’ve used breeders who cull in the past and although it wasn’t clarified to me at the time as a new mouse owner, it’s just something I think others should be aware of to make an informed choice. If there was a breeder who has healthy long living mice fairly local to me who didn’t keep their mice long term in tiny setups but they culled their litters it wouldn’t put me off. That being said I’ve had mice from someone who chooses not to cull and with a relatively large litter size none of them passed away and all grew to be healthy large adults, but she was prepared to step in and hand feed which is not possible or even successful to be able to do for everyone.
I know that rodent lovers hate the idea 💡 of feeding "pet" baby rats and mice to other creatures such as snakes, lizards, large frogs and other reptiles and amphibians but they love 💕 live food and eat small animals such as mice and rats in the wild. And people do keep reptiles and amphibians like that as pets. Maybe culling would be in the best interests of the mother rodents and their healthiest babies as well as the pet reptiles and amphibians. You can hand raise the smaller weaker baby rodents after they are removed from the mother but you need to be up almost 24 hours a day feeding them every 2 hours and helping them go-to the bathroom
adopting mice would be my dream, but there doesn’t seem to be any rescues that hold them near me :(( i live in staffordshire so if anyone knows any rescues near there, that would be great
I don't :( A big master list of mouse rescues would be helpful but they're quite hard to find, a lot of the rescues i used to use for mice don't seem to take them in anymore
Pawz for Thought rescue in Sunderland, North East England currently have some mice, gerbils & rats up for adoption (I'm a volunteer who adopted male & female mice from there 😊).
I would love to rescue/adopt mice but here in Sweden there aren't many mice that needs new homes. All my small animals are 2nd hand animals. I got 3 old syrian hamsters (all 3 are around 2 years old) and 4 gerbiles that are between 2-3,5 years old. I love hearing other ppls thoughts about adopting/buying from breeders. Myself are always adopting. Thats whats feels right for me.
While I only ever had mice, and have always gone the breeder route, I totally agree it's not always the case that just because it's from a breeder it's going to be a superior mouse . I also think what are your reasons for getting the mice in the first place, and your level of experience. In my personal experience I had a trio female mice, but while pair of half sisters that shared such a close bond, while the other mouse while they didn't fight, and enjoyed each others company, it wasn't same sort of relationship. Once the trio became a duo, the bond was even more cemented, and I spent a lot of time interacting with them. Once my gorgeous Lily had to be put to sleep because of a tumor , I waited way to long before getting more mice, and Daisy wasn't at all interested in the new mice, to the point of squeaking loudly every time they came near her. I finally lost Daisy at rather impressive age of 2 and a bit, and was stuck with a pair of mice, I really didn't want and got them for all the wrong reasons, and while they both lived to what is considered decent ages -18 and 17 months - my bond with them and they with me was somewhat lacking. So my point is I definitely agree that the right breeder that aligns with your thoughts and beliefs, but also the be crystal clear on why want this pet, and this also applies to any pet,this is why rescue shelters are so full to busting with unwanted animals
I am a rat breeder and I’ve never had mice. I have rescued quite a few rats and I will say that none of them lived past a year and a half and none of them were aggressive but they definitely we’re not as lovable either. They all ended up passing away from upper respiratory issues or tumors.
I don't have rodents, but I have 2 cats and one was in need of a new home at 11 months old and the other was feral. I plan on only rescuing in the future, I have the time and the patience. I get kind of sad when I see private rabbit breeders, because I know how many rabbits there are in the shelters.
Completely agree with you unfortunately. All my girls from breeders have so far passed before making it to a year and a half, but two of my pet shops girls have just passed three years. Feels awful because you are trying to do the best you can and be responsible. Just recently adopted two from a breeder and one died within the week, was a poorly girl but felt awful :(
I got my first 3 boys from a pet store... never doing that again. I found a mouse and ASF breeder relatively close. I have searched for adopting mice, but have had trouble finding them in my area. And ASF are almost impossible to find. I only have female ASF.
Personally I still prefer a mix or rescue and non rescue, I've found a breeder who I really like locally. But my heart mice have always been rescues. I've had health issues in both unfortunately, but not many rescue mice pop up making it easier for me to go to my local breeder so my group doesn't get too small. Now my group is starting to pass away as they're all 1-2 years old and I'm not sure if I want to keep owning them after all the heartbreak, two of my favorites passed very close together.
I have been looking into getting mice for a while now and I know what you mean. I found a breeder that I was considering at one point but then noticed that they only ever had does and never any bucks which rang alarm bells for me thinking maybe they culled some because females are more popular. Maybe I'm wrong but it just seemed a little sus to me. Anyway I'm now looking at rescues near me ☺️
Quite likely! I can understand why they would do it, as they don't want to be left with a bunch of male mice in single enclosures that they can't find homes for, and if they're going to be culling which most mouse breeders do, the male mice get the short end of the straw compared to the females who have more chance of finding homes. When looking at rescues who obviously don't cull they all seem to be full of male mice (although neutered) needing homes that are struggling to get them :(
@@Emiology it does make sense from a breeders perspective like you say, but it just makes me too sad! I'm definitely not opposed to having a neutered male or two as part of the group if I can, I feel so bad for them waiting for their forever homes for so long, poor babies :( ❤️
As someone who was in rare rescue for many years and kept rats for 20 I can honestly say it depends on the breeders lines for temperament and health because I've had rescues from breeders that ranged from the sweetest little angels to the most savage bitey things that could never be held and the bad ones came directly from the breeder ! I've had rescues live to 4 years old and I've had breeder rats live as long . Hormonal rats are a nightmare , get them spade/castrated and if you have a hormonal male sometimes , once castrated and no longer fertile , he can really help settle a female with slight hormonal issues in case anyone wants or needs to know that . I've not had many mice and you can't easily get them around here except for ones bred as feeders (I also had a wild rescue litter as my brother in law destroyed the nest whilst building and I had to hand raise them ) but I fully support adoption over breeding for the reasons you mentioned . Breeders who also rescue tend to make good ones if you want a breeder . Mostly though animals are all suffering from the excessive line breeding for fancy colours and special features which is so sad! I've watched the health of rats decline so much from 4 being an average age to it now being 18 months to 2 years and that is so sad 😞.
I guess it also depends on the country. I always see so many rats waiting for new homes, which is how I ended up with 14 at one point. But I know there were at least 2 major animal (rat) hording cases this year, so that might explain the amount of rats. (In one case there were about 900 rats with most of the females pregnant)
Maybe! I've seen a few hoarding cases with 100+ mice and I was interested in adopting but when I messaged they said they didn't have any but could put me on a waiting list so perhaps they all got adopted that quickly. I think in the U.K at least depending on the time of year there seems to sometimes be more people wanting rats than there is rats available, unless they're a more complicated case with health or behavioural issues, but the babies get snapped up fast!
Can you please tell me two things, where did you get the packing peanuts in your last video and when you let your rats free roam do they poop and pee all over the floor? If they don’t, how are you able to stop them? Have you made a video on litter box training your rats?
The packing peanuts just came with something I ordered. They don’t poop or pee as they’re litter trained and they’ve mostly just trained themselves, but they do scent mark on things (the intact males definitely do at least)
Awww I luv your mice. Can u do a video of boredom breaker because I have a hamster and he get super boarded even tho he is in an ikea detolf. I know u have rats and mic but they’re kinda similar
When my mice would sneeze usually it was a respiratory infection, which isn’t too bad you just have to take them to the vet and get antibiotics. Taking them sooner than later is better tho because for one mouse I thought she wasn’t sick (she had just moved and I’d read that sneezing can happen when mice are brought into a new home) and then she ended up having permanent heath problems as a result, also getting another mouse sick multiple times too. For the mouse that I brought in immediately though her health was back to normal in no time. I hope this helped!
Hello, Emiology! I was thinking maybe we can do another Rat cage reacting video? I have my Rat cage all set up for my Rats, and I was hoping maybe you'd give me some tips? of course if enough people agree with this.
On the culling topic a few notes. One if the mom is stressed by how many babies there are she will kill them all herself. Most feel humanely culling some is more humane. Also in the US there are very few if any vets that neuter male mice. So often males specifically will be culled.
I understand why mouse breeders cull and I’m not 100% against it. I just think they should be transparent about their practices to prospective owners so they can decide for themselves
@@Emiology ah thank you. I just looked up how to castrate a mouse as even though I've been in veterinary practice for 12 years, I've yet to see one! 😍 such cuties. You do a fantastic job. Thanks for your quick reply.
Where I live there is barely any breeders and rescues. In the past I have just had to go for live feeder mice which die within a few months of owning them. Do you think I should breed mice, maybe just one litter a year to offer them to other people near me struggling to get healthy mice? I would obviously do lots of research before trying to.
hi i know you have neutered males do you know about the surgery or risk of that as i want to as my male mouse to be neutered at some point bc he loves the females but i cant have him in with them due to breeding issues . is there a high chance of death is it worth it and how expensive is it usually
Thanks for this information. I haven't had mice before but I'm definitely going to adopt now because the culling thing is horrible. People choose to breed animals for their own gain, they have no right to kill the babies they brought into this world on purpose. Not ethical whatsoever and should never be supported imo.
I can understand their reasonings for why they do it, one of which is because generally males both from breeders and rescues are less desired and harder to find homes (so if you want to adopt and neutered males are an option they often get overlooked!) but at the same time if it’s something that is arguably ethical and they’re comfortable with that choice I think it should be more publicised, I’ve rarely seen it on websites etc to say that they practice it. For beginner owners I imagine if you’re not already in the community and the breeder doesn’t bring it up with you you wouldn’t know it occurs.
@@Emiology Thank you so much for replying, I might be getting my rats on the 13th of June so I am trying to get more info despite researching for about 2 years.
i have a pet mouse rn that i got in january. I really want more advice because i didnt start very well with him. i didnt do much research before i got him and he lived in a tiny tales cage for about 1 month before i realised how bad they were. At the petsmart there was no good cages so i had to get him a guinea pig cage. which hes escaped from twice already so i might get him a bin cage soon. ik this is alot but theres so many things i need help with😭 Hes also really sick rn, he got sick about 2 months ago and it happen after i got him something new for his cage. i cleaned out his cage and everything hopeing he would get better with time. it started with just his ears, they started to bleed and then like 2 weeks ago after i went on a trip for two weeks (he was left with my mom, she checked on him usually and thats when he escaped twice but was found) and when i came back he got even worse, hes now bleeding from around his eyes and ears. im hopeing to take him to the vet soon but i havent had much time bc both my mom and sister work most of the day.
Hi, sorry about this. I have some worries I hope you can answer. I was really excited to transition my cat to raw. Finally convinced my parents and everything.. and then I thought about it some more, and sort of got really scared. See, there are many immune compromised people out there. For an animal like a dog or cat, they’re insides are built to handle raw meat. It’s healthiest for them. But for humans, that’s obviously different. Is there a true need to worry over pathogen risk to other people? A dog eating raw meat also walks around the house everyday, licks people and objects, goes outside, etc. Wouldn’tthat be dangerous for the population? Specifically the immune compromised? What if someone is at a park, and a dog licks their face. They don’t know the dog is fed raw, or maybe the dog did it before they could stop it from happening. Either way, that person is now at risk. I really want to have a dog when I’m older. It’s been something I’ve dreamed about since I was a little kid. Now, I don’t know.. I feel I wouldn’t be providing it with adequate care, because I feel I wouldn’t be able to feed raw.. because if I feed raw, I’m harming so many people out there. This has become an extreme source of anxiety for me. If I fed high quality wet food, would that be sufficient for an animal? Would they still be able to live a long and healthy life? Are my fears irrational? I live with diagnosed ocd. I know this is why I’m so-well-anxious! But I also have seen others with this same fear. I’m so sorry about how long this is. I know you may not have the answers, but if you respond, thank you :)
I’m probably not the best person to ask this but if you join some raw feeding groups they might be able to reassure you! I stopped feeding my cat raw because it just wasn’t working for us and was a logistical nightmare, he’s on a high quality wet food instead.
Nah, I was standing up petting my mouse's head. I do visit sites about mice and some of the breeding practices are definitely things I don't vibe with. Some of the information reminds me of the old mouse care books I've read growing up. I agree with your viewpoints.
My main complaint with breeders is the unnecessary culling, and "at home" approaches to it. I think it should be the main priority of anyone breeding any pet species to have at least two trusted vets available 24/7. Those who cull for coat colour are in my opinion the worse aspect to the fancy mouse community. As these types of people are not sparing a mother a large litter, they're picking and chosing which patterns they think will sell well or show well. Hand feeding and around the clock care for a litter of mice has a very low success rate, but culling isn't the only option, especially when there are vets and rescues who could either take them in or put them to sleep peacefully. Not all breeders who cull are bad breeders, or bad people, but I think it should be given more than a passing thought how certain breeders only sell pretty mice (what happens to the rest, are their females overbred, health and longevity is often second to coat length, etc.)
That was my issue with it too, it’s not that the culling happens it’s that there’s not always a consistent way to how it’s done. I’ve heard of some of them using the freezer method of putting the babies they won’t want in the freezer, personally I think a co2 chamber if they’re not going to go to the vets is a kinder way to go. But I’ve also heard of one breeder who put an adult mouse she no longer had use for in the freezer while it was still alive too… My argument or question I suppose when they’re culling, besides culling all the males as they’re harder to home and house, if they had a mostly all female litter and they’re culling them at a few days old - how do they know they’re not culling the best mouse they’ve ever produced? The most conforming to what they’re breeding for type wise, or just health and temperament wise. I can’t imagine trying to select who lives and dies when they all look the same, or worse when they start getting fur in.
I joined a mouse breeding group in facebook to learn more about young mice and as soon as I saw a post about culling I had to leave immediately. I just couldn't ever imagine doing that. Plus bringing more animals into the world when there are already so many being neglected just doesn't sit right with me.
And rescue mice originally came from......? Accidental litters from mixed sex mice that come from mass producers and back yard breeders.... By providing homes for these mice you are also helping those carry on with their bad practices... Basically, there's no right answer if you look at it from a wide enough angle
That’s a rather warped view? How is supporting a rescue centre that takes in animals that have been dumped or come from many unwanted situations anything to do with continuing bad practices? The original source doesn’t profit at all. Taking a mouse off of someone who doesn’t want it anymore and not even going through a rescue also has no backwards connection? You’ve lost me here.
@@Emiology Well say I'm a backyard breeder, with rescues around I know there will always be someone who will take up the slack when I can't find homes for my mice. Therefore, I can continue doing what I do and every time things get out of control, a rescue will save me. Without a rescue, perhaps I'd have to deal with my mistakes on my own and learn from them, causing me to slow down or stop my breeding. It's just one situation in a complex world, but it's something I've thought about for a while. Same as buying from a petshop on a whim, I know I can always hand it off to a rescue or rehome it on gumtree if I change my mind. If those options weren't there, perhaps people wouldn't make so many rash decisions in the moment. I'm in no way saying rescues are bad or shouldn't exist, however, they do inadvertently prop up the pet shop industry and bad breeders. So like everything in life, there's no silver bullett or perfectly ethically correct choice that can be made. You're correct in that pet shops and BYBs don't financially profit from rescues, but they do benefit from them in non financial ways which allows them to continue with their bad practices.
But what would happen to all the mice in less than ideal situations if there wasn’t rescues? Or if posting them for new homes on selling sites wasn’t an option? I’m not sure what the alternative solution is here
@@Emiology i wasn't saying there was an alternative solution or that rescues are bad. Just that, inadvertently they are 'supporting' pet shops and bad breeders by finding homes for animals that come from those sources. Which isn't a bad thing, but by existing, rescues are enabling breeders with bad ethics because essentially they are helping them when they get info trouble. It's just a different way of looking at things. If rescues didn't exist, I'm certain lots of animals would find themselves in much worse situations, but also, I think pet shop sales would reduce and BYB would reduce their production if they couldn't just hand over their surplus. I don't think the latter would increase enough to warrant the former, but nothing is as clean cut as sometimes we'd like to think it is
Not really, all the recent mice I rescued were not selectively or thoughtfully bred / inbred on purpose, were either from mice that had freely bred under someone’s floorboards that escaped, jolly’s pet store originally. The most recent mice I adopted that didn’t live long past 1.5 were clearly selectively bred for exaggerated features and then sold to a local pet store (according to their previous owner) and they didn’t last very long at all. Most of my longer living rescue mice have been from accidental litter rescues, or just thrown together randomly by some mass breeder somewhere
I’ve always respected your take on things but I find this video quite disappointing. Although you continue to state the *possibility* of there being good breeders out there, and that you don’t know much about the mouse breeder community, you’re using your platform to promote an opinion based solely on rumors. The UK is not a large country, nor is the mouse circle that big. You didn’t try to reach out to anyone in the community to verify information, and quite frankly a lot of people are very upset.
This video is based entirely on my personal opinions and experiences alone, I’m not stating anything as fact and made sure to clarify various times that’s it’s my opinion and that it doesn’t apply to all breeders. Could you expand on what points should have been verified on a video that’s casual and experience based and not a video intended to be factually set in stone?
I think it's unfair to take such offence when she states in the video so often that it's only her impression and that what she says doesn't apply to all breeders. She was as thoughtful and respectful as she could be, and she only said that some breeders out there aren't that good, not that they're all bad.
Thank you Emma, I would hate for what I said to be interpreted differently as that was not my intention but now I’m worried that I should have added even MORE disclaimers into the video… But it will come to a point where I’m just sensoring my thoughts and opinions completely. I can only speak on my experience, and unfortunately my experience as a whole hasn’t been an amazing one and I can only theorise why that is. Of course I’ve only tried 3 mouse breeders in total none of which are even still actively breeding and that’s not at all enough to pass judgment on all ALL breeders as a whole so I’m not going to attempt to, but from looking at what’s available to me in a close vicinity I’m not enthralled and that’s fine, but it doesn’t mean that others shouldn’t be. It’s up to them to reach out to breeders they are interested in and ask questions, as I said in the video.
Glad you said this. I’ve had over 25 mice all excess feeder mice, don’t agree with it but It’s not the mouses fault. All taken as babies all lived their full lives no issues. Dozens of hamsters all rescue or from pet shops no issues ever all natural 2yr-ish deaths. My rats also came from excess feeders, again no issues. Only one rescue need repeated vet treatment. I now understand about UK rodent mills, but I watch utubers constantly taking pets to the vet and I’ve honestly only had one hamster that needed to go. Just look at dogs, mongrels are way more healthy. Dog breeders have a lot to answer for, pedigree dogs have so many life changing health complications and it won’t change as long as people keep paying to have pedigree animals. I will probably get my future pets from a local pet store who aren’t part of a chain and take up accidental litters. Never ever had a sick pet that way. In the end it’s animal health that matters and breeders can’t provide that. Only my experience for those that may get upset by this.
Adopt don't shop without any nuance is silly. Each species is different and the circumstances around them are different. Some people aren't able to take on rescues with behavioural issues etc. Plus it completely ignores the root of the issue which is unethical breeders.
@@FaithfulRattos even ethical breeders are still a huge issue, there are millions upon millions of animals in shelters, on the streets, in foster homes, on euthanasia lists, etc. Breeding is the root of the issue, regardless of ethicality, breeding cute baby animal after cute baby animal is the core issue. More than 99% of shelters are at or beyond capacity, which isn’t ethical at all. With no adoptions coming in because ppl weren’t bothered enough to look anywhere but in a pet store, shelters don’t have the money to look after all the dogs. This means lower quality food and vet care which means even less ethical. Then having to lay off staff and rely heavily on few volunteers which leads to less enrichment for the animals less clean up, less property maintenance, again, even less ethical. Then the shelter has o shut down and all of the animals are euthanized. There are shelters, rescues, strays, vet clinics, foster homes, Craigslist, Facebook marketplace, kijiji, etc. All of which are readily available, reliable, and perfectly adequate places to adopt practically any pet you could want. Giving money to the core of the problem is the even deeper core of the problem.
@@shawn-oldaccountl6748 without ethical breeders bettering the health of animals every domesticated species will be ridden with health issues and have a life of suffering. Animals from ethical breeders are not the ones that end up in rescue, they have "take back" policies where they will take back any animal they have bred of the owner has a change in circumstances and can't keep them. If you actually do some research about specifics you'd see that adopt don't shop lacks nuance. To stop the overrunning of shelters you need to educate consumers on how to find ethical breeders for each species and then also cut off the demand at unethical sources.
@@betzology6711 yes I went into a reptile store (I’m a regular) bought live feeder mice. I’ve had them for 7 months and everything’s well. It was cheaper than the breeder and the adoption fee 😌
Your channel is the reason I adopted 3 rats! Absolutely adore them, and am constantly trying to improve my knowledge to provide the best quality care. Thanks for sharing all this information about small furries 😁
You can learn so much from Emmi, check out her earlier Bloggs.
Same!
Always nice to see Fleet in a video :) I adopted his brother Aurum, and Fleet is like a little gold mirror image. Aurum passed in April unfortunately, so its great to see Fleet still doing well. We still have his brother Lupinus and his son Mars. We love our rescue boys so much, so friendly and cuddly, and never a problem with the other mice. I have found that rescues generally live longer as well, despite all ours being inbred haha
So sorry to hear he passed! I think if I worked it out correctly they both would have been 2 around this time? He’s definitely feeling like a frail old man but I hope I still have more time with him
@@Emiology Yes I think you're right, end of June I have written down somewhere. Aurum had an ear infection last summer and was always a little bit frail after that... Lupi is doing great though, I'm hoping he will make it till his birthday :) Is Fleet noisy? Our boys are super talkative haha.
No not a sound out of him! That’s so cute 😂
I've wanted rats for a long time, even before your channel. and I'll have to admit... if I didn't find your channel, I'd have very unhappy Rats. all these videos are wonderful and so helpful.
I rescued 5 rats bc in my area was a big emergency case with 700(!) rescued rats, all from one home... The people who rescued them and helped all the mothers and babies were absolute heros and I wanted to help and not buy some from breeders bc what other chance would all these rats have? Many found new homes, still many searching for a home
I just adopted my first mouse last week! I named him Harry, he's Black and White and so friendly. He was no longer wanted because he smelled too much. He's adorable and I love him so much I don't mind he's a little stinky.
I only rescue mice, rats, and hamsters. I've had a great experiences with all the ones I have adopted over the last 8 years. They've all been lovely little ones with minimal health issues and good life spans. All of them were very friendly as well
“Some of you may be shaking your head not agreeing with me at all” * me nodding the entire time* 😭❤️ I 100% understand and agree with what you said!! I’ll probably adopt/rescue most of my “pocket pets” (rabbits, rodents, reptiles, etc) where as dogs I’ll buy from reputable breeders because of my smaller animals. Safety is always important… plus I want very specific breeds of dogs so adopting also may not work. I will be adopting/rescuing any cats though! Once it comes time for me to open up my own pet store (mainly because I want to spread proper care information) I will be going to the best breeders and those I trust to get some rodents that I’ll, responsibly, breed:) I also plan to have a no kill shelter and to be a goat farmer! I’ve always loved animals and everyone has always said that I’m an “animal lover” but I don’t think they thought it’d come this far 😂 my dad believes fish belong in bowls… 😬 I bought my first rat when I was about 11 and am now 13 and know so much about animals!! You definitely are a huge part of who I am today!! Thank you Emi❤ can’t wait to see the new babies 🥰
That is a lot longer than I planned it to be 😅
I own a mousery and yeah, I can echo these issues. While I have noticed a difference in temperament in my mice vs the mice I rescue, I haven’t noticed a major difference in health. In fact, the reason “show mice” may live shorter is due to the fact they’re bred larger- similar to dogs, smaller mice have been shown to live longer.
I also agree with the huge issue of husbandry.. unfortunately most mice breeders think that smaller cages are better for mice because even really cluttered large cages will cause the mice to kill eachother and be aggressive and fearful 🤭 yeah, I’ve had one of the most popular breeders here in the USA tell me that, and unfortunately they work as a mentor to many other breeders.
It does seem like a lot of the younger breeders are mentored by the old school breeders, a lot of things that seem out dated in the rat breeding world are still common practice in the mouse breeding world and there doesn't seem to be much change. The reputable rat breeders I support have their rats in active enriching cages with their friends with foraging toys, multiple hammocks and hides etc whereas the 'reputable' mouse breeders use rack systems as permanent homes (i'm not against using them as maternity cages) for all of their mice for their entire lives, with just a pile of nesting material and a toilet roll. I can't get behind that :(
One of the best rat channels EVER!! I'm thinking of adopting a couple of mice and rats since my parents had a mouse in the 80s
Totally understandable! I've had a very opposite experience with rescues vs breeder mice, especially with temperament, but I did have to drive 3 hours to get to the breeder I picked!
Nice to hear there's some positive experiences! Maybe I've just got extra lucky with my rescues
@@Emiology Honestly if you have had good experienced of rescuing makes totally sence to continue to rescue, doesn't mean that there isn't some good breeders too but if it doesn't seem to make much of a difference.
Totally understandable! I can’t wait to meet your new mice! Even though I’m here for the rat side of your videos I love these videos nonetheless! Hope your elbow is okay lol x
I really appreciate you sharing your own thoughts and opinions with us all. It was very interesting to hear what you had to say!
I've adopted rats and I've had them from a good breeder. I have to say, in rats, there's a really clear difference between the behaviors. My breeder rats have so much confidence. But other rodents I've adopted I've never really noticed a marked different between breeder or rescue. So why not rescue? Your decision makes sense to me based on my experience.
its raining where I'm from, too! very nice video Emiology! 🙂🙃
Hey Emi!!! I love your vids - I am getting two female rats in just two weeks, and I was hoping you could do a reacting to rat cages so I can show you my rat cage so far?? (I am open to absolutely any suggestions I want my rats to have the best life
We actually went back & adopted one and we are so glad we went back. He was by himself and seems the exact same age as another boy we found.
There were 3 left.
****o.c.
Our local pound had 6 rats. We were thrilled. But they we all intact and very aggressive. They seperated most of them. I was bitten by 3 of them. I dont mind because they are stressed out. The whole thing stressed me out, too!!! We are signing up to go through the volunteer workshop so we can at least volunteer to play with rodents and see if it helps make them adoptable. 😣
Well Done!
I agree with you on all your points. I've seen the same thing here in the US. I even befriended the mouse breeder I choose. But I don't see any difference between her mice and my rescues.
Love these talking videos!!
I will most likely always get my working dogs from reputable breeders after seeing the difference in working with my adopted assistance dog and my assistance dog puppy who was from a reputable breeder. However I will probably always choose adoption for pet animals if I can find a suitable one to adopt as all of my adopted pets have been great.
Your just so lovely. Your so informative and I’ve learnt a lot from you. No not everyone will agree. But I definitely do. Keep doing you 🤍
Ugh, I definitely got mice and I’m a new rat owner…I got them from the feeder bins at the local pet store *cringe x 5000*. So Alaska only allows Albino mice/rats and there are no breeders up here, the only place you can get them is from the feeder bins 🤦🏻♀️ The rats are very young, regardless they will take a while to come around. Big break through the last few days tho: both coming out for meat baby food and crawling on my hand and they LOVED the fresh broccoli/carrots that I offered them. I’ve learned everything about caring for these sweet angels ** from you! So thank you for what you do with small animals and holding a very high standard.🐁🐁
Got two baby girl rats today, ten weeks old. Called one Squirrel due to her squirrel like ears, the other is a copper and I’ve named her Thistle. I was weeding the lawn and the name came to me. Group of four after introductions. Love mice but wouldn’t keep them
I love the name thistle!
I don't have mice, only rats, but given the breeder situation where I live, I have also decided to only rescue from now on. I have looked for breeders, but I just couldn't get on board with the ethic: culling, focusing on physical health at the expense of enrichment, having a large number of litters at once and giving out bad information. Luckily a lot of rescues here often have pregnant rats come in and have the babies grow up in foster care, so at least they should be well socialized. That is my hope. Already thinking of getting two new babies in a few weeks/months.
I would love to breed mice on a small scale some day, they’re one of my favourite creatures but in Ireland they’re often terribly bred. I’ve been talking to a lot of breeders online and unfortunately there seems to be no way around the culling issue. I’ve even been told by a few that in the beginning, when they didn’t want to cull any babies, they lost entire litters and even moms out of exhaustion. So, I think if culling turns you off, adoption is definitely the route to go as opposed to a breeder who doesn’t cull and therefore puts strain on the mother. At least, in my opinion.
Yes, I can understand why culling needs to occur and out of all of the other concerns I have it’s bottom of the list, and not even a concern really as I’ve used breeders who cull in the past and although it wasn’t clarified to me at the time as a new mouse owner, it’s just something I think others should be aware of to make an informed choice. If there was a breeder who has healthy long living mice fairly local to me who didn’t keep their mice long term in tiny setups but they culled their litters it wouldn’t put me off. That being said I’ve had mice from someone who chooses not to cull and with a relatively large litter size none of them passed away and all grew to be healthy large adults, but she was prepared to step in and hand feed which is not possible or even successful to be able to do for everyone.
I know that rodent lovers hate the idea 💡 of feeding "pet" baby rats and mice to other creatures such as snakes, lizards, large frogs and other reptiles and amphibians but they love 💕 live food and eat small animals such as mice and rats in the wild.
And people do keep reptiles and amphibians like that as pets. Maybe culling would be in the best interests of the mother rodents and their healthiest babies as well as the pet reptiles and amphibians.
You can hand raise the smaller weaker baby rodents after they are removed from the mother but you need to be up almost 24 hours a day feeding them every 2 hours and helping them go-to the bathroom
adopting mice would be my dream, but there doesn’t seem to be any rescues that hold them near me :(( i live in staffordshire so if anyone knows any rescues near there, that would be great
I don't :( A big master list of mouse rescues would be helpful but they're quite hard to find, a lot of the rescues i used to use for mice don't seem to take them in anymore
@@Emiology i’ve adopted two in the past, but have never seen any anywhere else since!! i’ll continue to keep an eye out though for the future
I find the facebook group rat and mouse rescue UK quite helpful they regularly share mice from other pages or websites looking for homes
@@Emiology thank you, i’ll check it out :)
Pawz for Thought rescue in Sunderland, North East England currently have some mice, gerbils & rats up for adoption (I'm a volunteer who adopted male & female mice from there 😊).
I would love to rescue/adopt mice but here in Sweden there aren't many mice that needs new homes. All my small animals are 2nd hand animals. I got 3 old syrian hamsters (all 3 are around 2 years old) and 4 gerbiles that are between 2-3,5 years old.
I love hearing other ppls thoughts about adopting/buying from breeders. Myself are always adopting. Thats whats feels right for me.
While I only ever had mice, and have always gone the breeder route, I totally agree it's not always the case that just because it's from a breeder it's going to be a superior mouse . I also think what are your reasons for getting the mice in the first place, and your level of experience. In my personal experience I had a trio female mice, but while pair of half sisters that shared such a close bond, while the other mouse while they didn't fight, and enjoyed each others company, it wasn't same sort of relationship. Once the trio became a duo, the bond was even more cemented, and I spent a lot of time interacting with them. Once my gorgeous Lily had to be put to sleep because of a tumor , I waited way to long before getting more mice, and Daisy wasn't at all interested in the new mice, to the point of squeaking loudly every time they came near her. I finally lost Daisy at rather impressive age of 2 and a bit, and was stuck with a pair of mice, I really didn't want and got them for all the wrong reasons, and while they both lived to what is considered decent ages -18 and 17 months - my bond with them and they with me was somewhat lacking. So my point is I definitely agree that the right breeder that aligns with your thoughts and beliefs, but also the be crystal clear on why want this pet, and this also applies to any pet,this is why rescue shelters are so full to busting with unwanted animals
:(
I am a rat breeder and I’ve never had mice. I have rescued quite a few rats and I will say that none of them lived past a year and a half and none of them were aggressive but they definitely we’re not as lovable either. They all ended up passing away from upper respiratory issues or tumors.
aww little mice babys i love your set up so much and your cute little mice aaw
I don't have rodents, but I have 2 cats and one was in need of a new home at 11 months old and the other was feral.
I plan on only rescuing in the future, I have the time and the patience.
I get kind of sad when I see private rabbit breeders, because I know how many rabbits there are in the shelters.
I love your hairstyle in this video, it's super cute!!
Completely agree with you unfortunately. All my girls from breeders have so far passed before making it to a year and a half, but two of my pet shops girls have just passed three years. Feels awful because you are trying to do the best you can and be responsible. Just recently adopted two from a breeder and one died within the week, was a poorly girl but felt awful :(
That’s so sad 😞
@@Emiology it really was :( me and the vet did everything we could poor thing :( sorry didn’t mean to upset you!
Can you do a video on the bad side of rat breeding, and whether/if you've had any experiences with them?
I don’t want the rat breeding community to hate me too 😅🙈
I love your uploads emi xx
I like your mouse themed hairstyle and shirt!
I got my first 3 boys from a pet store... never doing that again. I found a mouse and ASF breeder relatively close. I have searched for adopting mice, but have had trouble finding them in my area. And ASF are almost impossible to find. I only have female ASF.
The pet store only sells males, their information is horrible on cage size and they told me males could be housed together. etc.
Personally I still prefer a mix or rescue and non rescue, I've found a breeder who I really like locally. But my heart mice have always been rescues. I've had health issues in both unfortunately, but not many rescue mice pop up making it easier for me to go to my local breeder so my group doesn't get too small. Now my group is starting to pass away as they're all 1-2 years old and I'm not sure if I want to keep owning them after all the heartbreak, two of my favorites passed very close together.
I'm sorry 😞 to hear about your losses
I'm sorry 😞 to hear about your losses
I really want a pair of two girl mice and I’ve been doing LOTS of research on them and I think they might be good pets for me
I have been looking into getting mice for a while now and I know what you mean. I found a breeder that I was considering at one point but then noticed that they only ever had does and never any bucks which rang alarm bells for me thinking maybe they culled some because females are more popular. Maybe I'm wrong but it just seemed a little sus to me. Anyway I'm now looking at rescues near me ☺️
Quite likely! I can understand why they would do it, as they don't want to be left with a bunch of male mice in single enclosures that they can't find homes for, and if they're going to be culling which most mouse breeders do, the male mice get the short end of the straw compared to the females who have more chance of finding homes. When looking at rescues who obviously don't cull they all seem to be full of male mice (although neutered) needing homes that are struggling to get them :(
@@Emiology it does make sense from a breeders perspective like you say, but it just makes me too sad! I'm definitely not opposed to having a neutered male or two as part of the group if I can, I feel so bad for them waiting for their forever homes for so long, poor babies :( ❤️
I am looking for some reading materials about rats and rat care. Specifically about training for litter box and such. Do you have any suggestions?
How do you ask your parents to adopt a mouse?
As someone who was in rare rescue for many years and kept rats for 20 I can honestly say it depends on the breeders lines for temperament and health because I've had rescues from breeders that ranged from the sweetest little angels to the most savage bitey things that could never be held and the bad ones came directly from the breeder ! I've had rescues live to 4 years old and I've had breeder rats live as long . Hormonal rats are a nightmare , get them spade/castrated and if you have a hormonal male sometimes , once castrated and no longer fertile , he can really help settle a female with slight hormonal issues in case anyone wants or needs to know that . I've not had many mice and you can't easily get them around here except for ones bred as feeders (I also had a wild rescue litter as my brother in law destroyed the nest whilst building and I had to hand raise them ) but I fully support adoption over breeding for the reasons you mentioned . Breeders who also rescue tend to make good ones if you want a breeder . Mostly though animals are all suffering from the excessive line breeding for fancy colours and special features which is so sad! I've watched the health of rats decline so much from 4 being an average age to it now being 18 months to 2 years and that is so sad 😞.
Why did he bite your elbow? Just exploring? Trying to figure out what it was? Just curious...
Mice use their mouths to explore the works but he does bite sometimes when he wants you to move or not hold him
@@Emiology so you were just in his way! Lol 😂 He's like move lady! Lol 😂
Well hopefully it didn't really hurt. Just a little love nip.
I guess it also depends on the country. I always see so many rats waiting for new homes, which is how I ended up with 14 at one point. But I know there were at least 2 major animal (rat) hording cases this year, so that might explain the amount of rats. (In one case there were about 900 rats with most of the females pregnant)
Maybe! I've seen a few hoarding cases with 100+ mice and I was interested in adopting but when I messaged they said they didn't have any but could put me on a waiting list so perhaps they all got adopted that quickly. I think in the U.K at least depending on the time of year there seems to sometimes be more people wanting rats than there is rats available, unless they're a more complicated case with health or behavioural issues, but the babies get snapped up fast!
Can you please tell me two things, where did you get the packing peanuts in your last video and when you let your rats free roam do they poop and pee all over the floor? If they don’t, how are you able to stop them? Have you made a video on litter box training your rats?
The packing peanuts just came with something I ordered. They don’t poop or pee as they’re litter trained and they’ve mostly just trained themselves, but they do scent mark on things (the intact males definitely do at least)
@@Emiology thank you!
Good video Adopt or shop everyone must choose best option for them
Awww I luv your mice. Can u do a video of boredom breaker because I have a hamster and he get super boarded even tho he is in an ikea detolf. I know u have rats and mic but they’re kinda similar
Victoria raechel has some enrichment videos for hamsters. Some hamsters even in detolf get bored and want more space
@@Emiology thxs
Would your rat enrichment toys work for a bunny?
Maybe some of the bigger ones!
Emi, I have three rat ( Remy, Emile, and Linguini) Linguini keeps on sneezes, what should I do?
When my mice would sneeze usually it was a respiratory infection, which isn’t too bad you just have to take them to the vet and get antibiotics. Taking them sooner than later is better tho because for one mouse I thought she wasn’t sick (she had just moved and I’d read that sneezing can happen when mice are brought into a new home) and then she ended up having permanent heath problems as a result, also getting another mouse sick multiple times too. For the mouse that I brought in immediately though her health was back to normal in no time. I hope this helped!
@@alp4315 Thank you!!
@@haileyhowell5566 I hope your rat Linguini gets better, also that’s a really cute name!
Hello, Emiology! I was thinking maybe we can do another Rat cage reacting video? I have my Rat cage all set up for my Rats, and I was hoping maybe you'd give me some tips? of course if enough people agree with this.
On the culling topic a few notes. One if the mom is stressed by how many babies there are she will kill them all herself. Most feel humanely culling some is more humane.
Also in the US there are very few if any vets that neuter male mice. So often males specifically will be culled.
I understand why mouse breeders cull and I’m not 100% against it. I just think they should be transparent about their practices to prospective owners so they can decide for themselves
There’s a breeder near me who has bred mice that live 3-4 years consistently. They are awesome!
Completely understand that decision. Do you get your mice castrated? Xx
The boys have all been neutered by the rescue before I got them ☺️
@@Emiology ah thank you. I just looked up how to castrate a mouse as even though I've been in veterinary practice for 12 years, I've yet to see one! 😍 such cuties. You do a fantastic job. Thanks for your quick reply.
Very very tiny instruments and tools I imagine 🙊🙊 would be interesting to be able to watch one day
Where I live there is barely any breeders and rescues. In the past I have just had to go for live feeder mice which die within a few months of owning them. Do you think I should breed mice, maybe just one litter a year to offer them to other people near me struggling to get healthy mice? I would obviously do lots of research before trying to.
Will your new move be going in with your three boys? And are your boys neutered?
Yep! All three are neutered and I’ll be doing intros soon
hi i know you have neutered males do you know about the surgery or risk of that as i want to as my male mouse to be neutered at some point bc he loves the females but i cant have him in with them due to breeding issues . is there a high chance of death is it worth it and how expensive is it usually
Thanks for this information. I haven't had mice before but I'm definitely going to adopt now because the culling thing is horrible. People choose to breed animals for their own gain, they have no right to kill the babies they brought into this world on purpose. Not ethical whatsoever and should never be supported imo.
I can understand their reasonings for why they do it, one of which is because generally males both from breeders and rescues are less desired and harder to find homes (so if you want to adopt and neutered males are an option they often get overlooked!) but at the same time if it’s something that is arguably ethical and they’re comfortable with that choice I think it should be more publicised, I’ve rarely seen it on websites etc to say that they practice it. For beginner owners I imagine if you’re not already in the community and the breeder doesn’t bring it up with you you wouldn’t know it occurs.
Would be interesting to see you do a visit to a mouse breeder you think is doing it right?
I don’t know of any at this current time
A good breeder will not allow anyone into their mousery . This is because there are illness that can be passed on through air and through surfaces.
At least here in the US.
Hey I wanted to know if rats can have mealworms as treats maybe once a month per rat, is this ok?
They can! Even one once a week would be fine ☺️
@@Emiology Thank you so much for replying, I might be getting my rats on the 13th of June so I am trying to get more info despite researching for about 2 years.
i have a pet mouse rn that i got in january. I really want more advice because i didnt start very well with him. i didnt do much research before i got him and he lived in a tiny tales cage for about 1 month before i realised how bad they were. At the petsmart there was no good cages so i had to get him a guinea pig cage. which hes escaped from twice already so i might get him a bin cage soon. ik this is alot but theres so many things i need help with😭 Hes also really sick rn, he got sick about 2 months ago and it happen after i got him something new for his cage. i cleaned out his cage and everything hopeing he would get better with time. it started with just his ears, they started to bleed and then like 2 weeks ago after i went on a trip for two weeks (he was left with my mom, she checked on him usually and thats when he escaped twice but was found) and when i came back he got even worse, hes now bleeding from around his eyes and ears. im hopeing to take him to the vet soon but i havent had much time bc both my mom and sister work most of the day.
if you have any advice it would help so so much. i love your videos and they helped me alot with learning how to better take care of mice:)
The Male mice are neutered are they . X
Yep! All 3 were neutered before I got them
I adopt most of my pets the pets that adopted most would be hamster and mouse
My ethically bred mice lived 2 3/4 years and my self bred ethicaly bred mice lived just over 2 years some lived less as I had about 50
I just want to find good rats in Southern California!!!
Hi, sorry about this. I have some worries I hope you can answer. I was really excited to transition my cat to raw. Finally convinced my parents and everything.. and then I thought about it some more, and sort of got really scared. See, there are many immune compromised people out there. For an animal like a dog or cat, they’re insides are built to handle raw meat. It’s healthiest for them. But for humans, that’s obviously different. Is there a true need to worry over pathogen risk to other people? A dog eating raw meat also walks around the house everyday, licks people and objects, goes outside, etc. Wouldn’tthat be dangerous for the population? Specifically the immune compromised? What if someone is at a park, and a dog licks their face. They don’t know the dog is fed raw, or maybe the dog did it before they could stop it from happening. Either way, that person is now at risk.
I really want to have a dog when I’m older. It’s been something I’ve dreamed about since I was a little kid. Now, I don’t know.. I feel I wouldn’t be providing it with adequate care, because I feel I wouldn’t be able to feed raw.. because if I feed raw, I’m harming so many people out there. This has become an extreme source of anxiety for me.
If I fed high quality wet food, would that be sufficient for an animal? Would they still be able to live a long and healthy life?
Are my fears irrational? I live with diagnosed ocd. I know this is why I’m so-well-anxious! But I also have seen others with this same fear.
I’m so sorry about how long this is. I know you may not have the answers, but if you respond, thank you :)
I’m probably not the best person to ask this but if you join some raw feeding groups they might be able to reassure you! I stopped feeding my cat raw because it just wasn’t working for us and was a logistical nightmare, he’s on a high quality wet food instead.
Hahaha "mouse for sale" - bless him :p
Nah, I was standing up petting my mouse's head.
I do visit sites about mice and some of the breeding practices are definitely things I don't vibe with. Some of the information reminds me of the old mouse care books I've read growing up. I agree with your viewpoints.
My main complaint with breeders is the unnecessary culling, and "at home" approaches to it. I think it should be the main priority of anyone breeding any pet species to have at least two trusted vets available 24/7.
Those who cull for coat colour are in my opinion the worse aspect to the fancy mouse community. As these types of people are not sparing a mother a large litter, they're picking and chosing which patterns they think will sell well or show well.
Hand feeding and around the clock care for a litter of mice has a very low success rate, but culling isn't the only option, especially when there are vets and rescues who could either take them in or put them to sleep peacefully.
Not all breeders who cull are bad breeders, or bad people, but I think it should be given more than a passing thought how certain breeders only sell pretty mice (what happens to the rest, are their females overbred, health and longevity is often second to coat length, etc.)
That was my issue with it too, it’s not that the culling happens it’s that there’s not always a consistent way to how it’s done. I’ve heard of some of them using the freezer method of putting the babies they won’t want in the freezer, personally I think a co2 chamber if they’re not going to go to the vets is a kinder way to go. But I’ve also heard of one breeder who put an adult mouse she no longer had use for in the freezer while it was still alive too…
My argument or question I suppose when they’re culling, besides culling all the males as they’re harder to home and house, if they had a mostly all female litter and they’re culling them at a few days old - how do they know they’re not culling the best mouse they’ve ever produced? The most conforming to what they’re breeding for type wise, or just health and temperament wise. I can’t imagine trying to select who lives and dies when they all look the same, or worse when they start getting fur in.
I didnt know male mice could live together I was always told they would fight to the death so supprised u have males together
If they're neutered, which mine are, then it's fine :)
@@Emiology ah that explains it is it not a risk to have small animals neutered I have never tried it on my rats cause worried of the risk
If my parents let me get mice, I will only adopt one
if so adopt a boy
🌼
I joined a mouse breeding group in facebook to learn more about young mice and as soon as I saw a post about culling I had to leave immediately. I just couldn't ever imagine doing that. Plus bringing more animals into the world when there are already so many being neglected just doesn't sit right with me.
I thought you meant you weren’t getting rats anymore 😆
lol I think a few people thought that, that's why I made the adopt in capitals to try and avoid confusion
@@Emiology lol
Mice for me at least are much cuter than rats
classic poop chain xD
And rescue mice originally came from......? Accidental litters from mixed sex mice that come from mass producers and back yard breeders.... By providing homes for these mice you are also helping those carry on with their bad practices... Basically, there's no right answer if you look at it from a wide enough angle
That’s a rather warped view? How is supporting a rescue centre that takes in animals that have been dumped or come from many unwanted situations anything to do with continuing bad practices? The original source doesn’t profit at all. Taking a mouse off of someone who doesn’t want it anymore and not even going through a rescue also has no backwards connection? You’ve lost me here.
@@Emiology Well say I'm a backyard breeder, with rescues around I know there will always be someone who will take up the slack when I can't find homes for my mice. Therefore, I can continue doing what I do and every time things get out of control, a rescue will save me. Without a rescue, perhaps I'd have to deal with my mistakes on my own and learn from them, causing me to slow down or stop my breeding. It's just one situation in a complex world, but it's something I've thought about for a while. Same as buying from a petshop on a whim, I know I can always hand it off to a rescue or rehome it on gumtree if I change my mind. If those options weren't there, perhaps people wouldn't make so many rash decisions in the moment. I'm in no way saying rescues are bad or shouldn't exist, however, they do inadvertently prop up the pet shop industry and bad breeders. So like everything in life, there's no silver bullett or perfectly ethically correct choice that can be made. You're correct in that pet shops and BYBs don't financially profit from rescues, but they do benefit from them in non financial ways which allows them to continue with their bad practices.
But what would happen to all the mice in less than ideal situations if there wasn’t rescues? Or if posting them for new homes on selling sites wasn’t an option? I’m not sure what the alternative solution is here
@@Emiology i wasn't saying there was an alternative solution or that rescues are bad. Just that, inadvertently they are 'supporting' pet shops and bad breeders by finding homes for animals that come from those sources. Which isn't a bad thing, but by existing, rescues are enabling breeders with bad ethics because essentially they are helping them when they get info trouble. It's just a different way of looking at things. If rescues didn't exist, I'm certain lots of animals would find themselves in much worse situations, but also, I think pet shop sales would reduce and BYB would reduce their production if they couldn't just hand over their surplus. I don't think the latter would increase enough to warrant the former, but nothing is as clean cut as sometimes we'd like to think it is
Food for thought. The mice you are rescuing were bred by someone and if not from a chain your entire argument is then crumpled
Not really, all the recent mice I rescued were not selectively or thoughtfully bred / inbred on purpose, were either from mice that had freely bred under someone’s floorboards that escaped, jolly’s pet store originally. The most recent mice I adopted that didn’t live long past 1.5 were clearly selectively bred for exaggerated features and then sold to a local pet store (according to their previous owner) and they didn’t last very long at all. Most of my longer living rescue mice have been from accidental litter rescues, or just thrown together randomly by some mass breeder somewhere
I’ve always respected your take on things but I find this video quite disappointing. Although you continue to state the *possibility* of there being good breeders out there, and that you don’t know much about the mouse breeder community, you’re using your platform to promote an opinion based solely on rumors. The UK is not a large country, nor is the mouse circle that big. You didn’t try to reach out to anyone in the community to verify information, and quite frankly a lot of people are very upset.
This video is based entirely on my personal opinions and experiences alone, I’m not stating anything as fact and made sure to clarify various times that’s it’s my opinion and that it doesn’t apply to all breeders. Could you expand on what points should have been verified on a video that’s casual and experience based and not a video intended to be factually set in stone?
I think it's unfair to take such offence when she states in the video so often that it's only her impression and that what she says doesn't apply to all breeders. She was as thoughtful and respectful as she could be, and she only said that some breeders out there aren't that good, not that they're all bad.
Thank you Emma, I would hate for what I said to be interpreted differently as that was not my intention but now I’m worried that I should have added even MORE disclaimers into the video… But it will come to a point where I’m just sensoring my thoughts and opinions completely. I can only speak on my experience, and unfortunately my experience as a whole hasn’t been an amazing one and I can only theorise why that is. Of course I’ve only tried 3 mouse breeders in total none of which are even still actively breeding and that’s not at all enough to pass judgment on all ALL breeders as a whole so I’m not going to attempt to, but from looking at what’s available to me in a close vicinity I’m not enthralled and that’s fine, but it doesn’t mean that others shouldn’t be. It’s up to them to reach out to breeders they are interested in and ask questions, as I said in the video.
Glad you said this. I’ve had over 25 mice all excess feeder mice, don’t agree with it but It’s not the mouses fault. All taken as babies all lived their full lives no issues. Dozens of hamsters all rescue or from pet shops no issues ever all natural 2yr-ish deaths. My rats also came from excess feeders, again no issues. Only one rescue need repeated vet treatment. I now understand about UK rodent mills, but I watch utubers constantly taking pets to the vet and I’ve honestly only had one hamster that needed to go. Just look at dogs, mongrels are way more healthy. Dog breeders have a lot to answer for, pedigree dogs have so many life changing health complications and it won’t change as long as people keep paying to have pedigree animals. I will probably get my future pets from a local pet store who aren’t part of a chain and take up accidental litters. Never ever had a sick pet that way. In the end it’s animal health that matters and breeders can’t provide that. Only my experience for those that may get upset by this.
:((((
Why are we sad
@@Emiology everyone is reacting before they watch
Adopt don’t shop always
Nah
@@FaithfulRattos ?
Adopt don't shop without any nuance is silly. Each species is different and the circumstances around them are different. Some people aren't able to take on rescues with behavioural issues etc.
Plus it completely ignores the root of the issue which is unethical breeders.
@@FaithfulRattos even ethical breeders are still a huge issue, there are millions upon millions of animals in shelters, on the streets, in foster homes, on euthanasia lists, etc. Breeding is the root of the issue, regardless of ethicality, breeding cute baby animal after cute baby animal is the core issue. More than 99% of shelters are at or beyond capacity, which isn’t ethical at all. With no adoptions coming in because ppl weren’t bothered enough to look anywhere but in a pet store, shelters don’t have the money to look after all the dogs. This means lower quality food and vet care which means even less ethical. Then having to lay off staff and rely heavily on few volunteers which leads to less enrichment for the animals less clean up, less property maintenance, again, even less ethical. Then the shelter has o shut down and all of the animals are euthanized. There are shelters, rescues, strays, vet clinics, foster homes, Craigslist, Facebook marketplace, kijiji, etc. All of which are readily available, reliable, and perfectly adequate places to adopt practically any pet you could want. Giving money to the core of the problem is the even deeper core of the problem.
@@shawn-oldaccountl6748 without ethical breeders bettering the health of animals every domesticated species will be ridden with health issues and have a life of suffering. Animals from ethical breeders are not the ones that end up in rescue, they have "take back" policies where they will take back any animal they have bred of the owner has a change in circumstances and can't keep them. If you actually do some research about specifics you'd see that adopt don't shop lacks nuance.
To stop the overrunning of shelters you need to educate consumers on how to find ethical breeders for each species and then also cut off the demand at unethical sources.
I bought my mice from a reptile store🫠😭
Your PET mice??
@@betzology6711 yes I went into a reptile store (I’m a regular) bought live feeder mice. I’ve had them for 7 months and everything’s well. It was cheaper than the breeder and the adoption fee 😌