Chrono Cross Remaster: PS5/Switch Tested - A Classic Returns... With Worse Performance Than PS1
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- Опубліковано 8 кві 2022
- The new Radical Dreamers Edition arrives with a string of extras for Chrono Cross fans, though it's far from an ideal remaster. For the PS4 release - as played on a PS5 in this video - performance is comparable to the 10-30fps range of the PlayStation original from 1999. Surprisingly there are points where it even descends to lower frame-rates in direct comparison, while using a new enhanced visuals mode. Tom and Audi reminisce over a true JRPG cult-classic - and speculate on what could have been.
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Imagine losing to PS1 performance. Wow. The dynamic framerate.
Oof
It also uses an absolute fuckton of resources, when compared to just emulating it at a high resolution with JIT filtering. Not to mention, you can apparently overclock the core of the Beetle PSX emulator and get significantly better results
It's.. really disappointing 😭😭😭😭
Yeah. This very annoying. I updated my old laptop with an ssd and 8gb and the game runs worst than duckstation emu...
The funny thing is emulation beats it
Power of ps5
It kills me that Square spent millions producing gorgeous, industry-leading CG for their games and just said "nah, we'll never need this in anything better than 240p."
I don’t know how they never kept things like source code or graphic assets, I interned years ago for a small graphic design business that had client work on floppy’s going back to the late 80s ffs because you just never know when they will come back needing it (and some actually did!)
@@mikeg2491 it just wasn't a part of their mindset back in the 80s/90s. when a project was done and a product finished you didn't look back. the whole remaster/rerelease craze only took off some years later.
@@TrustyBell oh I’m aware of the mentality, it’s just still a weird one to me, if you’re a corporation with millions of dollars why not throw it on a hard drive for the future even if you couldn’t think of why you would need it yet, it uses little energy or time.
It’s not an wired it’s common practice this was before the internet gaming really took off
@@lorddiethorn ID games kept the source code for Doom, I'm sure Microsoft has the source code for all their software going back to the Dos/3.1 era, I do think it is weird to not backup your company's most valuable assets. That being said they paid for it years later.
I don't understand how the framerate can be so abysmal when I can emulate it flawlessly at a 1440p output on my Galaxy Tab S8+. Absolutely ridiculous.
Beyond the technical stuff, I'm glad that they talked about the vibe of the game, which is really something unique about the era. A lot of Squaresoft's games in the 90s had a melancholic vibe and stories with deep, existential themes. Really not stuff that you would ever expect from a mainstream publisher of any kind of medium.
Square were unique in how insanely popular and sucessful they were, which allowed them to make these ambitious, introspective and surreal projects like Chrono Cross, Xenogears, FF7, 8 and 9. They were in a position where they could do anything they wanted and a lot of the people who worked there had a unique vision and were encouraged to realise it. Granted, Xenogears and FF8 certainly were rushed to the finish line eventually, which more or less obviously shows at some point when you play them.
But still, absolutely no one makes games like that anymore, and it's a real shame. The only ones who come close are Square-Enix themselves, and maybe tri-Ace, being themselves one of the last remaining classic RPG developer studios and makers of weird, unique and surreal games.
But the REAL reason was that Sakaguchi San was still head of Square and could communicate his vison to his co-workers. He was a genious in balancing combat and vibe and story of a JRPG in perfect way.. A skill that the SE of today has lost.
Square Enix goes _there_ but the results just haven't been good.
Amazing comment. Thanks for this. I feel the same way about it all.
Im agree, but.......Yes, there are now games like this. Look the ´´trilogy´´ of Xenoblade Chronicles for Nintendo Switch, it has that the old vibes you are talking about.
Well "Resonance of Fate" for me is the best RPG ever made (and I've played countless games), so Tri-Ace has a special place in my mind.
I still remember playing this game. It's one of those games that you do not dare skip the intro cinematic after booting up the system.
Or what? I skip every cinematic on Japanese games if possible. Sometimes I want to play a video game and not watch a movie.
@@RelentlessOhiox Nobody cares what you think.
@@RelentlessOhiox Oh shit we got a bad boy over here
@@RelentlessOhiox If you skip it a badass gamer living in his moms basement is gonna rough you up!
This is the second game I ever played for 12 hours straight. It was great but unfortunately did not age all that well
Finally a game that can be used to demonstrate the relative power of next gen consoles
savage
so this is the power of next gen console
(too bad it sucks on pc too but at least its free on that)
You honestly took it your review... 🤣🤣🤣🤣
This is why I never bought a new system since the original Playstation. 😭
Switch in portable mode is the best version with highest framerates. No wonder that it is the best selling console nowadays.
HILARIOUS AND ORIGINAL
Glad you mentioned CRT shaders, because those are 100% viable on PC now. They're built in to some emulators, and they exist for ReShade, and they get very *very* close to the real thing. It's the easiest way to play games of this era with the original experience
Retroarch indeed
I'm really hoping that crt shaders will get eventually as close as possible to real thing. And simpler to use.
I can’t stand CRT shaders. I just want a pure pixel experience
@@godspeedmaximus then don't use em
@@-aexc- no shit. The problem is I don’t want them to become standard as the way to play these remasters. I don’t want them to catch on for official releases
One thing to note is that it's now available in some new languages. From the tests that I've read, the french adaptation is excellent.
Yes, it’s great to finally see it available in languages other than English and Japanese
@@ramonandrajo6348 and what ?
@@TheGameLecturer when the best implemented upgrade to your game is more languages you know your doing it right ;}
Another thing to note: To my knowledge this is the first time this game is released in Europe, so it's the first time you can play the game legally without having to import a console from overseas.
That's neat! I was quite put off by the fan french translation,t he only time I tried the game. I wonder how much it has been improved... especially Kid's swearing.
Omg it’s been 23 years!?! Literally one of the best RPGs ever
No guys, the music is definitely based on the released soundtrack and the sound quality is waaaay better than on the PS1. I know this game by heart and it is kind night and day. The ffwd is not even a new quality of life addition; it was already in the original game. They just gave you the item to do so from the beginning of the game instead of waiting until the NG+.
We're looking in from the modding scene at this game, and the big problem is that both Chrono Cross and Radical Dreamers are not native ports, but emulated via some in-house design. All the bugs persist, the game saves in PS1 Memory Card format (though super encrypted for some reason), and all the old PS1 assets (besides the font and upscaling face images even in Classic graphics) exist in a .dat file while the new HD assets are packed in its own and effectively injected into the game to overtake the old assets. Combine this with instability in the ports and they basically have all the performance issues of the original game and then some.
It’s almost as if there’s no source code (because there isn’t!) for the original game to be able to do anything major with it. Same for FFVIII & FFIX. Their source codes DO NOT EXIST. Squaresoft in the ‘90s never had the future forethought to *save* any of them, because they clearly never considered “remasters” would be a concept, so when it was done, they threw it out. Not SquareEnix, SQUARESOFT did.
So nothing can physically be done about that without *entirely* remaking it from scratch.
Hence remaster, not remake.
FFVIII & FFIX’s remastered releases also had to be reverse-engineered to even “remaster” anything as well. Silicon Studio Thailand (Bravely Default dev that originally did FFIX’s remaster for PS4 before Acquire(?) did it for the other platforms) admitted as much in interviews. There was no source code to work from, they had to reverse-engineer from the PS1 final.
@@MattAndre24 meh. That still doesn't excuse the poor/lazy upscaling, and performance worse than the original (in remaster mode). The power difference is such that it's inexcusable.
And hell, they could probably swallow their pride and get some of those genius, independent reverse engineers to reproduce close to the original code, but only Sega has shown that kind community outreach in the modern era.
I hope they fix these issues in any case!
Edit:
Ah, I see you mentioned reverse engineering in you're next comment :). Square should do it if this current method produces results like *this*. Lol
@@MattAndre24 VII and VIII actually had source code for their releases in the day, albeit VII had a Japanese build and VIII was just a dodgy port I believe. VIII Remaster was just the VIII PC port with new assets on top. But the rest were reverse-engineered or emulated, yes; Squaresoft really didn't have a good record for source code keeping.
@@MattAndre24 With AI upscale it doesn't matter if there is source or not.
I'd like to note that this is one of the games that currently runs WONDERFULLY on the work in progress PSX core on the MiSTER.
The new CPU data cache option even works to increase the FPS. It doesn't work miracles (it's not even close to a locked anyhthing fps) but it's cool and doesn't break anything either.
Looks great on consumer CRT via composite or S-Video. As well modern flat panels. The new adaptive scanlines are incredible too.
*edit: fix typo*
Best to emulate this game.
Starting to really appreciate the Mister project. I got a DE-10 Nano recently, just waiting to get the RAM, USB and Video I/O boards and a case. Then I’ll have the best retro emulator around.
@@johnbuscher I sold 2 complete inbox pokemon games on GBA and that was able to pay for it all. I'm selling mostlt all my collection now because there's no point in having them with something that accurate.
Why not use DuckStation? It runs way better on that.
need video evidence
I played it from the get go in classic mode, because I didnt like the washed out effect of the backgrounds. It turns out it was the best choice also from a frame rate perspective. It is a shame that Square Enix delivered such a poor product, especially considering that for us in Europe this is the only legal way to play this masterpiece. They should patch the game sooner than later.
Actually, archive org got a DMCA exception. This means they can host old copyrighted games all they want, and you can play even PS1 games in their page emulator. Actually downloading the ISO would technically be piracy though, but it should take a higher burden of proof to justify monopoly over a perpetual supply, than the burden of proof required to copy from a perpetual supply. The website emulator wasn't a great experience, just get a VPN and download the ISO.
@Turkey Jeff Frame rate matters a lot in an action game like GTA, it matter little or very little in a turn based JRPG. A second point is that Chrono Cross was never released in Europe so this makes the game unique and hard to pass. GTA5 was released a million times, people have played it to death, and probably will not buy it again even if its at 10 USD.
get an emulator bro
@@CounterFlow64 Frame rate matters. It is the difference between the game being playable or not. It absolutely is not exclusive to Fps games.
They patched it it's now 60fps
I bought the Chrono Cross OST CD back in 2000. This music is so powerful.
Amazing soundtrack honestly. Always put me the scene in the right mood.
SAME! I ripped it for an IRC group back in the day, so I had to import it -- but I'd have paid for it anyways. This is one of the best all time videogame soundtracks of all time. In fact, I'd go further and say it's the soundtrack is so beautiful and profound, that it transends its genre and is truly a masterpiece.
@@alexanderkhan9097 irc haha man I must be getting old.
At minimum - the frame rate should've been locked to 30. Minimum.
Give us a friggin' break.
Excellent video, as usual. I'm glad you dedicated so much to talking about AI scaling, and appreciated the nod to FF9 Moguri.
As an aside, FF7 Satsuki Yatoshi is also incredible.
Also, a third option is, like you said, to play the original on a proper emulator: DuckStation with PGXP, (optional) JINC2, (optional) 24-bit rendering, CPU overclock and a good CRT shader.
Anyway, thanks for such an informative video. 👏🏻👏🏻💪🏻💪🏻
I really appreciate how much of the review is focused on the soundtrack and the audio mixing of the game. It's true testament to how much of an impact the music gives for the experience in the Chrono series.
The soundtrack was so masterful. There are chunks of my teen years that are indelibly tied to certain tracks, so much so I can't hardly listen to them anymore without getting hit hard in the feels.
I remember importing this game to Sweden...... What a journey. It saddens me to see such a wasted opportunity.
Thank you Tom and Audi for covering it 💕
Hah! Same for me!
me too still have my copy, shit whas expensive in sweden
@@TheCid3 indeed 😅
Same here!
Same but to Norway 😅
Miss d this game back in the day so this will be my first play through. What settings would you recommend playing handheld on switch oled? Classic/New? Normal, Full, Zoomed? Thanks to whomever responds and thanks DF.
I absolutely love this game...
And I am enjoying replaying it again.
However it's no argue this port is underwhelming. Much would've preferred CRT and Performance over upscaling
It's a pity that you did not mention the geometry of the polygonal objects. The emulation Square uses also emulates PS1's lack of z-buffer which leads to wobbled textures, texture clipping and polygons overlapping which can also often be seen in the video. Advanced emulators like Duckstation has fixed the problem long ago, but Square is ...just Square again....
I agree but I love some wobblyness.
@@pmurph1 If you are referring to jiggle physics, then I'm in!
Chrono Cross uses a z-buffer and float transformations. There's no wobbling, just some minor clipping.
@@geminirebirth I think they actually mean the wobbling due to the PS1's lack of floating point capabilities. This can quite clearly be seen in the remastered clips in this video. Duckstation fixes this.
This game was such a huge part of my childhood, randomly saw it in the store and looked at the back of the case, figured yeah this looks cool I'll buy this. Then this game, man, this game had me enthralled for a very long time. I miss the old days of just finding random gems in the stores, buying a game not knowing anything about it except what's said on the case. These days you know every single little thing about a game before it's even released, in a broken state as well. Chrono Cross deserves way more than they put into this, almost makes me want to cry.
your words echo my thoughts completely
I really liked the new visuals, specially the models and art. But this performance... This is Just unaceptable!
And your spelling
Looks like a (moving) painting. I can live with that.
But indeed, the performance…sigh!
Yep I love the new look fps though lol.
@@omensoffate whut ov it
@@omensoffate theres nothig wrog wit hes spelin
Tom sounds almost choked up when he talks about the game's narrative.
Chrono Cross has some of the best music in a JRPG
*in a game.
In all video games history
Except at the final boss...where there's none..
@@joelsutton2858 thats spoilers
@@MegaFinalRound 😆
Really nice implementation of Dynamic Frame Rate
Pioneering new technology right there.
So what are our odds for getting patch fixes for frame rates? Also anyone got a recommendation for a HD mod for PS1 emu?
The question is, would that work better on Steam Deck resolution wise ? (I know it's not Steam Deck compatible as of now)
This game needs a remake
I dont trust them. They will ruin its summery atmosphere 100%
That got a remake soon to be multiple and a stupid battle royale cause it was stupid popular
Chrono trigger should have a remake too
@@deeppurple6469 Chrono Trigger has nothing to gain from a remake.
@@alondite215 I would take an HD2D remake but that is about it.
I don't think Square Enix realises how simple and inexpensive it is to run Chrono Cross on an emulator. 20 mins of work gets you a superior version that doesn't demand $20 for 10 fps performance.
I don't think you realise how they surely know about it and there is surely reason why they not doing so, technical wise/legal wise/business wise
But that's exactly what they did here. This is Chrono Cross on an in house emulator with HD texturea slapped in. What you are demanding is exactly what they've done and that's the issue here.
@@Magus12000BC that's the thing though
they're a multi billion dollar company and their in house emulation is clearly bad when compared to emulation projects on a fraction of the budget.
It looks and runs worse than what emulators can achieve. Emulation as a way to remaster officially isn't the issue. It's how it's done that is.
@@walter4180 - How do you know what their budget is? It's pretty clear that SquareEnix had so little faith in the IP that they wanted to do this as cheaply as possible. I don't see them pulling a Sega and importing the game onto another engine. And this is supposedly after three years of development. Time wasn't an issue. They just didn't want to spend the money.
Granted, I don't know the answers either. I wish I was a fly on the wall in those meetings. But historically, the Chrono series has been a bust for SquareEnix. Chrono Trigger on Steam was a trash fire. The DS port failed to meet sales expectations. And the PS1 port was yet another trash fire. And the publisher keeps blaming a lack of interest of the IP. If time wasn't an issue, what was other than a shoestring budget?
What if you force the PS4 to output 720p video?
I suspect it could give a better overall visual than the lowres background/highres 3D model combo.
This was one of my favorite games growing up(when I was just a kid crono trigger was my jam)so I was so excited when I heard a follow up was coming. Like you said, a mature theme and so many different art styles and wow, that music(still makes me emotional 😊)I when to a concert a few years back(video games live)and they played the opening theme and it a out made me cry)such an awesome game and to be treated luje this in a "remaster" smh. At least new people can play it now but I hope it won't do more harm than good 🤷♂️ I still have my ps1 copy of the game and play it on my ps3(that still works as of right now 🤞)and you can smooth the graphics and get a better version than this 😎👍. Ever since squaresoft became squareenix quality sometimes has been an issue? I hope they get it back together cuz square and Enix were some of my favorite developers growing up 👏 thanks for all your hard work guys and love of these remembered/forgotten classic masterpieces.
So I’m guessing the game is running using emulation and wasn’t actually a native port, that would explain some things. This was obviously a project that SquareEnix didn’t pour much time & money into.
We don’t know either way. Square have mentioned that the full source code has been lost though, so they had to fill in some gaps.
@@adams3560 that's bullshit, they did not fill anything ..as the video mentions, it is just an emulated version
Its another carbon copy example of FFVII, VIII and IX "remasters"
Lost source, AI upscaling backgrounds and minimal work.
@Esuard Leder That’s because it’s partially emulated, and partially running on native code (to implement the new character models, new artwork and upscaled backgrounds.
@@kokumosu Well, without the source code there’s really not a lot more they can do. Short of reverse engineering the entire game’s code, which would be a huge job. And then it would also beg the question of whether it’s even still the same game.
They didn’t just stick the game in an emulator and call it a day. They’ve created a bunch of new assets and added features, which required them to write native code for each system in order to implement them. They also went out of their way to translate and include the visual novel, something they were under no obligation to do. Even so, it’s at the $20 price point for a reason.
Thanks for this fantastic and brutally honest analysis, Tom and Audi! I love this game, and I truly want to support any efforts to make these PS1 classics available again. But there are just so many artistic downsides and caviats with these "remasters", that are so hard to ignore. As a fan, this is truly a dilemma.
There's no excuse for the bad performance. But the worst thing in terms of art, to my eye at least, is the horrible resolution mismatch between 2D and 3D assets that has already plagued the ports/remasters of FF7-9. The scene composition looks completely broken compared to the original, as the 3D assets seem detached from the backgrounds. And in the upscaled versions, even the different background layers themselves looked detached from each other, with rough alpha edges and fuzzy line art.
I know the source code and the original assets apparently got lost, but there should be better ways to work with what is left.
If there's already a classic mode, why can't they give the option to run the game in its native resolution? Maybe add an optional, well-made CRT filter (as suggested in the video) and/or anti-aliasing applied to the polygon-edges. That can't be too hard... At least to me, it's far more pleasing than an insufficiently trained AI upscale model that produces visual garbage, like the island in the view from the pier in Arni. Those scenes are in dire need of some clean-up by hand.
Square has already produced vastly better results with 2D/3D-hybrid games like Star Ocean 1: First Departure R (still waiting for 2 in the west).
Will you do an updated version with the "60fps patch" that landed few days ago? On the switch, still feels very sluggish
And I'm not sure if a patch went through but I just bought the radical dreamers ed this morning and I haven't experienced alot of frame rate issues
I would have loved to see an comparison with the PS1 Version running on an Emulator. I assume nowadays the PS1 emulators on the PC can upscale quite well.
Yeah... not gonna happen. I'm surprised as even mentioning emulation in the first place. Especially considering there's a fan-created ai-upscaled (but with hand retourches) version that runs flawleslly at 60 fps on a potato PC.
Unfortunately, they stopped short of recommending emulation as the best way possible to play this game. Because it is, 100%, and I say that as someone who played both CT and CC around launch time. Yes, I'm old.
That being said, a channel as large as DF is on UA-cam, is not gonna risk getting demonetized or banned forever for suggesting the obvious: Don't play this, unless it's on an emulator.
Not just PC but your phone Duckstation came out a couple years ago and it's really the best but tbh all psx emulators are run very well
To my ignorant and untrained eye the AI enhanced pre rendered backgrounds look great. I'm looking forward to play this, Chrono Cross was my first PS1 game.
The game is great. Don't listen to these weirdos.
The upscaling is not bad just lacking for what they market as a remaster, the shoddy performance on the other hand though is inexcusable
I have to agree. I actually like most of the remastered backgrounds.
I noticed some of the cutscenes were low res. Not sure why they didn’t fix it like the other scenes. There are some flaws to the frame rate. It will struggle a little when there’s a lot of enemies on screen. I think they could still polish it more but I am still enjoying it nonetheless. I am playing it on the switch and I play in portable mode. I have yet to try it on tv. It it starts to slow down, I would speed up the game and return to the original speed. I also noticed the button input has a slight delay. It can be annoying when I am trying to change from 1 to 2 to 3.
What about playing the emulated version that was available on the PS3 online store? Does that version compare favourably to the "classic" version on this release?
Just can't see myself playing this one again. Beat the game and STILL have no idea what the hell happened.
You guys enjoy!
Yeah, don't feel bad on that one. This game had beautiful aesthetics (even back when it came out) but the story landed on it's face IMO.
Basically use Duckstation standalone or swanstation in retroarch for the best experience. The only good thing about this package is that it includes Radical Dreamers.
Thanks for this video. Now, I'm wondering how the ps1 classic digital version runs in comparison..
do you think the Switch OLED will suffer from burn-in on the sides if the screen is not stretched?
When the OLED is showing black the pixels should be turned off so I don't believe any burn in can occur.
You’d have to leave it that way for a very long time. It’s very unlikely you’ll be in the game long enough to cause burn in and that can take hundreds of hours. Besides the bars are quite dark and lower brightness and darker colors are far less likely to cause burn in
All I wanted was smooth framerate, nothing else. It's sad that they couldn't even fix that. All their remasters are plagued by framerate issues. Even the recently released Final Fantasy Pixel Remasters running new assets on a new engine can't run smoothly without mods...
Wish I could remember where I saw the article but apparently the devs behind this remaster recently commented on how much effort went into the AI upscaling and how the artists spent a lot of time manually refining all the results.
This review points out specifically how important that is when AI upscaling and implies that it likely wasn't done here. Knowing that it was, I would love to hear you guys expand on your thoughts about it.
Whatever their constraints and intended effort, they got atrocious results here :/
can square enix patch this to fix the performance or the muddy ui upscaling? Or are of the se problems going to be permanent?
The same way they didnt patch ff8 and ff9, I highly doubt it. Only thing to rely on are mods.
Can we get an update video focusing on the newest patch?
one of my favorite games of all time. im still gonna get the remaster, hopefully they fix things up on the framerate etc
I like the new art. The new models better represent the characters, the the upscaled background work nicely with their painterly aesthetic. But the performance is unacceptable. Hopefully it gets fixed at some point, because this is an utterly brilliant and unique RPG.
I agree with this. The only really valid criticisms are the FPS drops and the low-resolution FMVs. The rest of the stuff seemed like it was the result of a nitpicking nostalgia block ("the new portraits don't mesh well with the rest of the game" - lol, dude, yes they do; they're literally made by the same artist and fit the aesthetic perfectly)
Any plan to look at the Life is Strange port to Switch, with an evaluation of AMD’s Fidelity Super Resolution included in the rendering engine?
Why didn't they give you the option for new 3d models on the Jon upscaled backgrounds ??
“Remaster” 🤣
Seems like doing the bare minimum is enough for them to call it a remaster.
I appreciate the effort and technical presentation of this video… But I was someone who knew about this game since launch on PS1 and never had any interest at all in playing it. The remaster however just looks so incredibly beautiful, it instantly captured me. The art looks so amazing in the watercolor styling, and the game has so much personality. Im going to be double dipping on Steam and Switch. I’m fine with PS1 frame rates, which is something of a grey area in what should be included in a remaster anyway. So this version is just about perfect for me.
Honestly just ignore the video, all you need to know is if the game looks like it's running too slow to you then it's a problem with framerate but most people haven't been having a problem with it. The game has a very good story that does connect with Chrono trigger in a significant way(in multiple ways actually) but that's all I'll say about it. The sound track is amazing and the battle system is pretty good. Enjoy the game to it's fullest, it's a long rpg and it's really good. Everyone here in the comments and in the video...they want perfection and see flaws in everything. The rest of us just want to enjoy the game again with some nice new features added on.
@@nworder4life The story is absolutely terrible and it's the game's biggest flaw. It undoes everything Crono and his friends accomplished in Trigger. It's also peak late PS1 JRPG plot nonsense, where writers confused deep and meaningful with convoluted and forced. The combat is also incredibly easy, with no thought or strategy required. The huge cast of characters leaves the majority completely undeveloped and some are flat out pointless.
And people don't want perfection, they want a port that looked like effort was put into it and this port was clearly half-assed. A game from 1999 shouldn't have framerate drops on current technology, that should be logically impossible but yet it still happens. There are mods on emulators that do the job this remaster should have done and it's free. Your dismissal of legit arguments is why we keep getting these bad ports (Chrono Trigger PC port was also bad).
What people should do is ignore your comment because it's just a bunch of nonsense.
@@okagron go touch grass
Wonder if the patches some advertise on Twitter will actually do anything, at least on the performance side of things? Great to have you both Audi and Tom to talk about what the game really means for such a generation of players, that I'm a part of. Really a shame Square Enix didn't put a lot of efforts into one of their hidden gems…
The foreground and character models were touched up but the farther back in the distance you go, the detail there is. There's more vibrancy and some detail, but it definitely looks like it could be done better, mainly for the larger backgrounds. Rooms for instance look good from what I've seen. That being said, for 20 dollars it's good enough to me.
Chrono Cross is a fantastic JRPG. I played it before Trigger and loved it. Beautiful music too.
Sorry to hear this remaster is having some issues. Hope it gets fixed soon.
it wont, SE doesnt fix shitty ports
Square Enix never fixes anything, currently FFXIII port on PC is still being shit.
@@henkhenkste6076 They fixed some sound issues of the FF7 ports that most people weren't expecting them to do.
@@iweaker4you212 Did you forget about Chrono Trigger on PC? They fixed that drastically from its initial release.
@@CDRW24 uh no they only made CT worse
I'll wait for the PC version to be updated with some great fan mods. Always the best part of playing these games on PC.
This was the game that introduced me to JRPGs as a kid and I always loved it. So naturally I bought this remake three times. I am shocked to hear about the lower performance, but I'm not exactly bothered by it. I don't have my original PS1 anymore and my PS2 is in storage. So being able to play this on modern hardware with trophy support is what I was most excited about and I'm glad this was able to get a re-release as I feel the game was largely underrated.
I enjoyed this video a lot eventhough the message was that the port is flawed. Love the interaction between Audi and Tom. Great stuff!
Lets hope a patch is released to fix those awful frame drops
Squareenix never updated their games, they just leave it like it is
@@sos.gamers that’s not true lol
@@omensoffate for many games they ported to PC that is true, and sometimes even when they patch it it is still broken like FF7Re
@@omensoffate most of the remakes like FF7, FF8 and 9 they never update them just look at their version, they are 1.0 and still the same for years
@@FerrickAnima the main times I’ve seen them do important patches (across all versions) were the re-releases of the original FF7-FF12 games.
It just shows how much "effort" SE puts in these remasters
One of my favorite games of all time and one of those that marked the most my whole gaming life. While I'm happy that it finally had a remaster, I'm sad to see it with so many issue. I've noticed them just as soon as I've started the game on switch (mostly the battles and the 20 fps corridor right at the begining) and it pain me.
It won't stop me enjoying the game, but it really deserved better.
Now I just need to redo Trigger again then go for it
@DigitalFoundry : Are you planning to check / test this on Xbox One? Just curious if that performs any better at all. It’s doubtful, but at least worth checking.
This so disappointing to me I was really looking forward to this remaster. Hopefully either Square or modders are able to fix it.
I wouldn't surprise if modders going to do it, lazy people at SE
Yeah like the FFIX Moguri mod, they should fix frame rate issues, add even better backgrounds & models, Interpolated FMV's with higher frame rates & probably even wide-screen for big areas.
in emulators like duckstation you can overclock the emulation speed which will make games like Chrono Cross run at 60FPS, I wish square did the same thing with whatever emulator they used for this
60 FPS breaks some parts of the game though, it was never intended to run at that speed.
The overclok can run the title screen to 60fps but in game overclok make run the game faster breaking it.
Duckstation is incredible as an emulator.
@@CutestBoyInTheMorgue Literally makes me nauseous just looking at it. You people are delusional. Take off the rose-tinted nostalgia goggles.
@@MattAndre24 you have no idea how this game is actually supposed to look if you aren't playing it on a CRT or with a good CRT shader like crtroyale, who cares what you think.
It should be noted, though, that dithering is still visible on a high-quality CRT display and still not the "intended experience" for games that feature dithering. You're meant to use composite video in order for the dithering to blur the picture and create the intended effect.
I noticed the jittering in the opening hallway instantly and couldn't believe what I was seeing. I remembered it being much smoother on PS1 an you proved just that.
Excellent commentary. I especially appreciate bringing attention to how the characteristics of CRT displays are so important for these games. I use CRTs and original hardware, but I know most people can't or won't, so I also agree strongly with the wish for official releases to offer a presentation as close to the original as possible. Eventually developers may catch on, but in the meantime those without CRTs should really just stick to software or hardware emulation that provides increasingly better CRT effect simulation (though motion clarity will always be at a disadvantage with all flat panels). Those willing to use original hardware can also use some of the excellent retro game focused scalers available. But none of this can replace high quality, thoughtful official releases both for letting more people experience these games and for strengthening the legacy of old franchises or even potentially reviving them.
It'd be interesting to compare this to an emulated version such as Duckstation and what the minimum settings you'd need to lock it to a consistent framerate. What is certain is that this is an abysmal effort by Square. Audi is spot on with the CRT shaders, I'd much rather see that then the smeared rubbish we get on this or the Grandia ports
Will there be any update for this game?
Can we get an update video on the patch? It seems to run EXCELLENT now the little bit I’ve played on PS5. So glad we got it.
The upscaled backgrounds are awful, but you can't get the updated text sharpness without using the awful backgrounds "update" as well... It's pretty bad. There is a modded PS1 version with graphics gte overclock and texture replacement that looks miles better than this !
That’s why SE’s rereleases are so crap. Fanmade Mods do a better job than a billion dollar company.
SE Just sees the Money. The Fan sees the Heart. SE sucks since their Fusion. I absolutely hate them nowadays.
@@sorayat2333 Well no shit. Fans don't have to pay people to do the work. See how much "heart" fans have when they have to pay a salary to everyone working on it while also making a profitable product.
Businesses exist for the purpose of making money. That's the only reason any of these games even got made in the first place; they aren't doing it out of the goodness of their heart.
@@alondite215 you know, there exists a fine line between pure profit and caring for your product. It's not unheard of that companies acually put out a great product and still profit.
@@alondite215 This just makes it even more perlplexing on Square's part: Why even BOTHER releasing a port, when this game's demographic is clearly of a certain age and is more likely to choose emulation over rebuying what can best be described as the most low-effort, blashphomously irreverent ports out there.
I get business are about money. But what does this port offer that's actually going to entice its demogrphic to spend that money, when they get a better experience literrally effing pirating it?
I heard that DF usually pitches their feedback regarding technical issues to publishers/devs before they release a technical breakdown video to public. I hope SE take this feedback to heart and patches some issues(mostly fps related)
I just feel like it felt like a PS1 game to me and I actually didn't mind the upscaled background AI. Almost thought it looked intentional. Maybe I'm getting old and don't care anymore, or maybe this is just a specific case because it's an old game, but I am still having a lot of fun with this on my Switch and it's taking me back to when I played it in my early teens. That's what you guys are here for though! To nitpick those details, and I appreciate your in-depth analysis. I am glad that I'm not bothered by the shortcomings in this case and enjoy it. I am all for any further performance patches to framerate, though!
Understandable, have a nice day.
I must have extremely low standards, because I think this looks fine? I’m just thankful to be able to own and play it portably on the Switch.
You’re not alone. It does look fine. Performance could be better though.
CRT/Scanline filters, when done well are really good. Games would need to be internally outputting at 240p, but they can look great and increase perceived definition.
I only use the hybrid scanlines on my N64 with the UltraHDMI.
I do want the PS1 pixal fx mod too.
yea but how did u get access to doom2016 editor ?????
I bought this on Steam and returned it within 10 minutes. It was just so low effort and I immediately noticed the lower framerate. I do have the original release and multiple ways of playing it, so i'll do that instead.
I found dropping it into 2k x1440 fixed all the frame rate issues. My PC tried to have it sit at 4k and it was like Serge was running in slow motion. Changed the resolution and it was night and day.
The psx was the best console for sample based soundtracks and soundtracks in general. Going from the snes 8 channel to the psx 24 channel was a gigantic leap. The sixth generation kind of ditched sample based music and its a shame.
PS2 and Gamecube also had sample-based soundtracks, primarily Square Enix and Nintendo games though.
Gamecube (especially Nintendo-produced stuff) still had a lot of sample-based music, if only because the discs were a smaller 1.4GB. I remember being really impressed by Wave Race Blue Storm when it was new, and that's all sampled - which is important because the music changes based on weather conditions.
Why no Xbox comparison? Would VRR help clean up the frame rate? I’m playing on SX and it isn’t as choppy as it is on Switch.
Talking about shaders or filters for older games that imitate the crt experience. Instead or curved, scanline or bloom filters to look like a crt. What you want is a Biverted filter. CRT tvs had visible lines both vertically and horizontally that when combined with the raw images/pixels of older consoles put the pixels where the developers wanted them to make the image look a bit more than just the raw out put.
To see what I mean. On retroarch you can use any crt console(even some handhelds) with no resolution upscaling. Just go into the shaders and find the CRT folder and in there find Easymode(not halation). If you are using an emulator that upscales dithering then you can use this shader when upscaling to certain resolutions as well. Duckstation with geometry correction. dithering upscaling, x5 resolution(1080p) and easymode shader for Chrono Cross looks pretty darn good. Easymode shader isnt perfect but it better than what square did here.
I really don't understand why this exact practice is so common among remasters of this era and DS-era games (FF3, FF4 etc, though in their case a lot of the backgrounds are 3D and of a similar poly count so it's not AS bad)
It just does NOT work, the extremely low poly models at such a high resolution just look horrific against the backgrounds every single time, it's ridiculous and needs to stop.
Truth
It can be fixed, but ports like this are just a cheap cash grab at this point, thats why I don't bother supporting SE when they do stuff like this.
@@neoasura Square Enix business decisions are complete garbage.
It works because people buy it. And they defend it saying they like the blobs of liquid paint all over the screen.
As long as it makes money SE will do it.
Yeah I don't get it either. Look at what Sony's doing, for example: GOW, HZD, and Days Gone had MASSIVE ROI's for their PC ports -- and yeah it cost more money to port those games than, say, it cost SE to copy-paste a crappy version of its latest cult-classic -- but on the long run, is the low ROI and loss of brand image/reputation REALLY justifty these awful ports?
I mean, even from a purely capitalistic, money-first standpoint.... it doens't make sense at all what SE is going with PC ports thesee days. They'll never come close to the ROI, in fact they might lose money, on ports this bad -- when with just a TINY amount of effort they could be like GOW's PC port and crush the Steam top 10 for weeks.
I'm hoping they will patch the game to have 'improved stability' or 'improved playback'. Graphically this is surprisingly a big improvement. It's great seeing more and more PS1 'golden age' JRPGs getting a remaster release.
Yeah, it looks so much better than the original version. Hope they can get the framerate to be more consistent.
Mitsuda's live tour is a must. Is all I needed as a Chrono Cross fan. It's perfect, you should definitely get the blu-ray.
I agree fully- consistency is key. That said, I have to sympathize with Square a bit after testing various filtering options to try and improve the original PS1 version when playing on a digital display. It's very difficult with the background art style and dithering use in this game.
I absolutely want CRT shaders. With "retro" now being a whole genre, I think it should be built into the game console, itself. That includes not just different types.of scanlines and bloom and curvature, but also composite and S-Video color blending. Old game graphics were *literally* engineered to take advantage of the flaws of those analog connections.
I think it is so important I have recently been looking into getting a RetroTink 5x ($$$) and trying to hack together a solution where I set my Switch video output to 480p -> HDMI to composite -> RetroTink -> 1080p HDMI output -> TV. It would be ridiculous, but retro games would look appropriate.
It's crazy how these companies don't seem to give a f*** about their own IPs other than to grab some cash on nostalgia. Fan projects always sow better results in consistency and quality than these big companies' butchered re-releases. I'm sticking to emulation and the fan translated Radical Dreamers
Yup. I will buy myself the upcoming arrangement album and save cash on another budget digital-only release. Radical Dreamers was fan translated years and years ago anyway.
Wait, wait, wait... is that the same shore at 16:42 that's in the intro to FFVIII???
I loved this game when it came out in 2000, was stoked to pick up the radical dreamers and fell in love all over again one of my fav ps1 games and has held up extremely well after 22 years.
My first instinct upon hearing that a classic game with pre-rendered backgrounds will be "remastered" is that the backgrounds will be re-rendered at resolutions befitting modern displays. This matches what it means for music to be remastered: they go back to the original mix that was created before the original master, and master it again with different methods.
But this isn't what they did with Chrono Cross or Final Fantasy VIII. The pixellation of the backgrounds indicates that the image was rasterized from a source. The sources are not pixellated, and in some cases are 3D environments that could be rendered at any resolution. Why do they not have access to these sources so they can rasterize them again?
This is like making changes to a mastered recording, and then claiming that is a re-master. Anyone can modify a mastered recording that has been publicly released. When a company can produce a new version based on their access to the original source material, that allows them to create real unique value that makes it worth purchasing a product that has already been released.
Did Square not archive all materials used to create these games? For the supposed remaster of Final Fantasy VIII, they apparently didn't even have access to the original code base.
If Square-Enix don't have the original, proprietary assets, and are only capable of doing texture filtering or AI techniques that modders could do, then in my opinion they can never legitimately release a remaster of these classic games. They can only re-issue them (preferably with some perks) or re-make them.
Apparently they did lose a lot of the source material. Which I find amazing. A cd--which the game was MADE on holds 650-700 megabytes. All you'd have to do is store the source on a bunch of discs (which they printed millions of) and there's your copy for safe keeping. Hell, you could even make a few copies of those copies. Discs take up barely any physical space. I myself still have cd backups from around that time. How can a company worth billions not do it?
So even though hard drives were expensive back then, cds were basically commonplace and could have easily solved that issue. But incompetence seems to be the way of the world now.
If I recall Square is actually pretty infamous for not keeping all of their original source assets. Hence why the PS1 FF ports being the way they are as well as how a lot of parts of Kingdom Hearts HD needing to be rebuilt.
Indeed they lost all the original assets, so yes you're assumption it's one hundred percent right, they can't make a "Re-master" as the originals of most of this games are completely lost.
This includes games like FFVIII, FFVII and IX, for what I understand essentially all the PSX era it's impossible to Remaster in a proper way. We only have the mastered versions they launched, and even those are massively affected by compression, lack of space in the CD's and the poor techniques for digital archiving of the time.
Everything that you're showing here (especially the backgrounds) LOOKS ABSOLUTELY AMAZING! and waaay better than the ffv VII, VIII y IX for ps4. I don't really get what your problem with the backgrounds is. They look even better in the TV so.... I don't really get what you're trying to point here. The new portraits are also beautiful!.They could, however, touch the battle backgrounds. Those could use a little more work but overall I'm happily surprised by this remaster. I think you're being weird with many """observations""" in this one.
the filter they are using sucks, it does not look right at all, specially like they said on the open world
@@Kyush4 nah it looks fine
@@HipnotikHylian whatever
This video covered everything I was curious about! Great hearing some real information from someone with AI upscaling experience as well. This really does feel like the FF8 remaster all over again, just with more issues.
Thank you for getting down to the technical issues, unlike so many other You Tubers. Namely Happy Console Gamer, who apparently got a kickback or something from PlayAsia to shill so hard in the positive...
Happy console gets kickbacks from everyone. Especially Nintendo. It's been known for years that he's a corporate shill.
Not sure what Audi is saying here about the OST being sample based. It's Redbook audio.
The classic mode needs a real good CRT Royale shader.
They should have 3 CRT royale modes, Composite, s video, and basically a PVM mode. That way you can get the best of them all. Also lowering the resolution to its original 240p would help a ton. Also a 30fps lock and 60fps menus would be perfect
I spent around 80+ hours in this game back in the day (still have it with my 1996 PS1) so, what a waste...it just shows that when a proper REMAKE/REMASTER is made, gamers SHOULD really give the RESPECT to the devs that worked on it...
Pity SE doesn't seem to care and hope that good ol' nostalgia will sell the games...I love this game, but I'm not getting it (and that's not just because I don't have a PS4/PS5 or any other current console to play it...I wouldn't bother with this even on PC...)
It's simply not worth it...
Hey DF, are you going to take a look at the newly showcased Unreal Engine 5 material, including the Coalition demo?
Pre purchased the physical switch release coming out end of the month. Seems the switch is the ideal system to play this on, and in handheld. Needing to reduce the resolution to enhance this "remaster" is a quirk, and it's not a good quirk.
If they could add an option in a future patch to enable the updated character portraits with the original textures, that would likely be the best method so you don't have to see all those smears everywhere.
Any old game tends to look better on a smaller screen since you can’t see all the low res assets and jaggies as much.
Yeah, this is conflicting. I've never played this game, and part of me wants to get the newer version, but the other side thinks playing it on the original console instead.
Just play it in classic mode.
Don’t listen to the naysayers, it’s worth it.