As a Tiffin owner I can tell you the customer experience is second to none. This is my sixth motorhome and my motto is if you own an RV "There is always something wrong or broken". When something goes wrong and I call my dealer they tell me to bring it in in 3 months and it will be 2-3 weeks before I get it back. As a Tiffin owner I have the option to drive to the service center in Red Bay, MS and I will be put in line for a repair bay. Meanwhile I'm camped in town with other Tiffin owners and when my bay opens up the repairs usually take 1 day with parts sold at cost and discounted labor.
Here's how it works. Thor starts out with the belief it will not change and not mess with the quality. But what happens is the new management has different physilosiphys. They will try to lean the plant cut cost. This will change the attitudes of the employees through benefits and other changes, then the work force don't like working there any longer and becomes just a job. Then quality starts slipping some by implementing cheap components to save money some by a disengaged workforce. It will take a few years but eventually you will have another Thor just more expensive. I hate it. Take a great company and make it mediocre. I know I work for one.
When Thor has become a monopoly player in the RV industry with the recent takeover of Tiffin motorhomes and the van lee division had Thor believe it won't mess with quality when owners would stay on as about a year later they are gone when new management has different physilosiphys when they lean out the plant that bad when the attitude of workers are affected when quality is slipping as those hope products Thor had touched becomes another in the line of being great before the takeover when they are now mediocre after.
They always say the owners are staying on and then a year later, they're all gone and the company is hollowed out. Thor wants its money back and quickly.
We bought a new to use 2018 Tiffin Allegro Red 33aa with one reason of many, it being a family owned company known for quality and customer service. Being that the whole Tiffin staff has stayed on is a good thing. Thor industries has gaining a highly respected brand and we look forward to seeing what the future holds. Chasing RV Sunshine🌞- Joel, Deb & 🐕Maya
For anyone that didn't see the Bob Tiffin / Thor executive video they conveniently had the comments turned off and rightly so. There are a lot of Tiffin owners, like me, that see where this is going in the long term and it's sad. Thor will start using cheap parts here and there, cutting corners everywhere and the company that we've come to know and love will be a distant memory. I have always enjoyed the peace of mind knowing that if I had an issue or needed a part it was as easy as picking up the phone and calling Red Bay. You actually could talk to a person who didn't treat you like they were working a production job and getting an answer or ordering a part you needed. They will have an automated phone system before you know it and the personal service will no longer exist simply because of revenue generation. Bob Tiffin said in the video that he had been looking for a buyer for a long time. Well, now he has one much to the dismay and chagrin of his loyal customer base. Best wishes to the Tiffin family and heartfelt condolences to all Tiffin customers, past, present and future (for however long that may last).
Our first motorhome was a a new class C Thor and the quality was DISMAL. We always wanted a Tiffin and found a used Allegro Open Road earlier this year and were able to trade our Thor for it. So, naturally, I was very dismayed at first to hear that "Thor bought Tiffin". But, as you point out, Thor INDUSTRIES is not the same as Thor Motor Homes....and I surely did not know that Thor Ind. had purchased Airstream, much less 40 years ago!! So your take on this situation is very comforting to me. I wish the Tiffin family nothing but the best and thank them for our wonderful motorhome.
I got into RVing just a couple of years ago. I started with a travel trailer, then advanced to an older, but very beautiful Beaver. And this year, bit the bullet, and bought my dream RV, a Phaeton 44OH that was built before Thor was in the picture. Let’s just say that I am glad I bought a pre-Thor Tiffin, but sad that I didn’t do it a long time ago.
To all the loyal Tiffin people…. The ability to just call and talk to Bob is just incredible. Their service is also second to none. So if you know and trust Bob so much in the past, why not now? I saw his video with the Thor CEO. He said a couple key things…. One of which he said he and his family are still involved in the management. That they did this so they could focus more on their legendary service. Glass half full vs glass half empty. Bob isn’t immortal, he is long past when most people retire. Perhaps this is his way to ensure the Tiffin legacy after he is gone. To control how his company transitions into an era when he can’t take customer phone calls anymore. I for one am happy for Bob & his family. They created something special. They should be able to sell it if they choose. Good objective video. You took the emotional ‘fear of the unknown’ bias out of it and presented facts.
When the bean counters at Thor get there claws into Tiffen Motorhomes its going to become another Jayco. It won't take long for the new parent company to tear it all down.
There goes another great company. Everything I have looked at that has the Thor name on it is junk. Once great companies like Jayco have been "Thorized" and that's not a compliment. There are Thor products that I have looked at as I am in the market. But the workmanship and materials have not been great. So now, all we rvers can buy a Thor, Forest River or Winnebago. Wow. What a choice. Recently Winnebago had been cheapened but still is priced high vs the competition, and who knows what will happen to the "Winniemar"! Maybe it is time to give up rving. Can't find a campground anyway. RVs are expensive lawn ornaments. My last thought is this. Rv manufacturers should go camping sometime. Experience what you build. Experience the pain while your $175000 sits at a dealership for months further falling apart while you keep writing those monthly payment checks. Put a decent bumper to bumper warranty on your product if you believe in it. At least match Ford's warranty. Don't make YOUR customer fight the battle with YOUR suppliers who have sold you junk components. I owned 2 Tiffin's and Bob Tiffin stood behind his products and he fought the battles for his customers. Bob Tiffin, congratulations on having run a wonderful, customer oriented company. Thank you for being a true gentleman of the industry. You and your family are great people. Best wishes and Merry Christmas.
The inventor of the quality class C motorhome.That manufacturer being in southern California with the complete political dysfunction there.The question is how much longer can they survive and stay independent? Remember Born Free motorhomes🦁🤔
My friend is involved in lawsuit with Thor right now, this reminds me of Fender FMIC buying great US manufacturers of musical instruments and slowly destroying them.
This will be a disaster for Tiffin! They (Tiffin) have a quality brand and superior service. Thor absolutely sucks no two ways about it! It will kill the Tiffin legacy!
I wouldn't be too worried about Tiffin's quality going down. As you mentioned at around the 3 min. mark, Thor owns Airstream and has since the early 80's and their quality hasn't suffered from it. I trust that they're going to be smart enough to know that the Tiffin line is, and needs to remain a quality line.
If Thor is interested in gaining traction with the high end RV buyer AND it makes financial sense on paper they might continue to make a quality product. Sadly, it gets down to dollars based on their data. They already have a plan in motion so let’s hope it benefits future RV buyers who appreciate quality over shortcuts. Great update... thanks for keeping us informed!
The Tiffin family worked very hard to get were they are at. Congrats to the Tiffin's. As far as quality it will remain the same, my personal opinion; Tiffin's quality is the same as Fleetwood, American Coach, Holiday Rambler, Entegra/ Jayco no better or no worse. Tiffin's customer service is were they stood out. Thor Inc, is the parent company not only to Airstream but many other brand i.e. Entegra Coach/Jayco, DRV
Yes, I think people are thinking “Thor Motorhomes” rather than “Thor Inc”. The parent company is known for encouraging competition from the individual brands, so I can’t see their meddling to ruin Tiffin’s well-earned reputation. They know doing so will ruin their $300M investment.
I'm still running my 2007 Phaeton and the paint and cabinets are still beautiful, of course I replaced some of the furniture. I will be glade when I'm done with RVs this will be my last one. I know a lot of new RV owners that have more problems than I do. RV repair business is a great business you will never be without work. I'm still waiting for 2020 to have a show on what a scam all the RVs are nation wide and why so many people are selling there life's work and savings on a purchase of an item that has such a loss in value. This brain washed value would have never happen with all the WW2 vets generation .
I haven't see any line of RV that Thor bought that improved in quality. My uncle bought a Thor Ace with in months it caught fire and burned to the ground. Found oil line for the levelers routed over the exhaust pipe.
Thor is terrible!!! I have turned wrenches for over 50 years. I know quality when I see it. Tiffin was one of the last quality builders left in the RV industry. Thor has been and still is one of the worst. Thor just bought the hood emblem. Now watch over the next few years the quality wane.
I suspect this was a very nice equity event for the Tiffin family. I am happy for them, as they have earned it. We can only hope, as the RV community, that Thor doesn’t screw up this amazing brand that has built terrific equity with consumers. But in that, I am skeptical... We shall see. Excellent segment Jason! Thanks for your thoughts and insights.
Jason- I love watching your videos and look forward to next! I great mix of news and editorial both of which seem very well researched organized and expertly produced and presented! Please keep up the great work! Happy Holidays and I wish you your family great health and fortune in the new Year!
Bob won’t be at Quartzsite anymore, you used to be able to talk to him at La Mesa RV and get things fixed on you coach and his sons can’t run the company.
This makes a life decision for us. We considered getting another RV when our 2018 Tiffin wears out. Nope. We will never get another motorhome with he quality and value we have today. Take the $$ and run. AirBnB, VRBO, ... all better options in the next generation. Maybe get a simple tent trailer for local camping fun. Thanks again Thor for making this decision for us ... and for Winnebago for making the decision to not get a Newmar. Now Bob Tiffin can retire in peace. My parents owned an Allegro 27' motorhome in 1980. You all have fun out there. See you all on the road for the next decade or so.
This is a good thing for the Tiffin Family but a horrible this for the RV consumer.....limiting yet again, the availability of a true high-end luxury coach. I believe Bob Tiffin is a smart man and is looking at the market indicators for the industry and does not want to live through another 2008 at the helm.
I’m happy for Tiffan if they are happy they sold the company. Glad they’ll stay on. I heard they have great customer service., I like both company’s Thor and Tiffan. Class cs are my favorite and travel trailers. Thank you Jason for the information. Hope you have a Merry Christmas with your family.
While watching one of your videos, I wanted to take this time to say Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. From the bottom of my heart. God Bless....Jason
I always associated Thor with pure crap ! Every Thor product I’ve seen was garbage, even by rv standards ... bold move cotton let’s see how it works out for em
What RV brand of the many Thor has bought in the past has improved in quality? Enough said! I felt like I was lucky to get rid of the Thor coach I owned. I’ve proudly owned both Tiffin and Newmar DP’s and now what do I do?
I wish I had a crystal ball but an Airstream isn't that special of an RV - just a silver wrapper on the better selections from the Lippert catalog. The Tiffin product was truly stand-out. I hope they can remain at the pinnacle but I don't think the owner base will be bragging about being in "Bob's Family" in a few years when he decides to retire and some MBA decides that Tiffing could be more profitable if they used more shared products with other Thor brands. Who knows, right? But Disney isn't the same without Walt and Apple isn't the same with Steve.
Totally agree with your Airstream take. We looked at them less than 2 years ago and I specifically put a hard eyeball on interior construction/appointments & level of quality. Was super un-impressed & frankly, a bit taken aback by the level of "meh" interior components & construction. Kinda like the Beatles, you either love 'em or don't get it. With Airstream we're in the 'don't get it' camp, but to each his/her own.
So if we want a Good Tiffin we have 12 months, maybe, of continued high quality builds....maybe. Damn! Tiffin was going to be our next class A step up. Crap so much for that. Everything thor touches turns to mud, not gold. We saw not one new rig we trusted that had a thor connection. We bought a well cared for 5 yr old used one because of that. I guess we won’t ever buy new at this rate..
Great breakdown of this situation!👍 I own a 2021 Tiffin Wayfarer and initially I was shocked and troubled by the acquisition. After I thought about it and saw Bob Tiffins explanation I came to the same conclusion as you did. I’m not worried about it. Will be visiting the Wayfarer plant in Winfield AL in April.
Do not kid yourself. Thor will turn Tiffin into crap! Bob Tiffin and the current management team will probably not be there that long. Bob Tiffin cashed out while the cash out price is high with the current RV explosion with COVID. The man is smart and knew it was time to cash out. There is a reason (some of which you mentioned) why Tiffin margins are smaller. However, the largest margin pressure comes from customer service and Thor will kill it. They will not allow management to run on small margins as all large corporations push margin increase at any cost. Such a said day for my plans as I was planning on purchasing a Tiffin diesel pusher next year for retirement. I can't believe I am going to have to switch plans now. The problem is that I have no where to turn now so may go back to my second option of Grand Design 5th wheel instead. At least Winnebago is not has bloated and customer hater liker Thor.
I bought a new 2020 Thor ,four winds ! I have less than 700 miles on it ! Absolute junk. Stove glass shattered going down the road ! Closet ceiling fill down with cloth bar , driving along, bathroom wall separated , water pump failed and dealer couldn’t even find it first day in shop! It’s stuck down in the very rear corner Inan impossible place to repair/ replace! Junk design. Nothing but problems !
Tiffin used nice materials but their construction and QC was not impressive. My well maintained 2016 Tiffin started leaning on a trip from San Antonio to Seattle and I found most of the welds from the body to the chassis were broken. The welds had so many grapes it looked like Ernest and Julio did the job. I had a mobile repair guy reweld the connections. When I got where I was going I sold the thing. Thing had brand new Toyos all around too. I'm glad it's gone.
I think the biggest upside for Thor is a southern manufacturing hub. The Elkhart, Indiana labor pool is really tapped. I wouldn't be surprised to see a new Keystone or Jayco plant in Alabama.
We’ll done segment. Good writing and presenting. But, I’m afraid I’m going with the comments. Power corrupts. Middle management is rewarded on short term numbers and the easiest way to get them is cutting costs, especially if you’re just building a resume and not a career with the company. Even a terrible manager can cut costs and the insured managers don’t want to wrk where that is wrongly rewarded and there is no appetite for spending resources on getting and keeping the best people. Congratulations to the seller family. So, why is it so hard to build a good RV, anyway?
This is sad news, I looked at a Tiffin when we bought our second coach but decided on a Winnebago because we liked the floor plan, quality and previous owners upgrades. Thor is a low end or entry level product. As mentioned below I'm sure the quality will decrease over a few years. Why does a new Thor cost the same as a quality coach 10 years older!
Thor Motorcoach is just one of Thor Industries 18 brands. They're all very separate. But that's a problem Thor needs to sort out, because the perception of their many brands is often influenced by the perception of the one entry- to mid-level brand.
Really, though, what happened? I saw a video made 9 years ago that was an interview with Bob Tiffin, talking about their history, and how they are still a family owned business and that was “never going to change.” What happened, did they get bit by the greed bug? Was it, “we make good money, just not enough of it.” Makes me sick.
Honestly, when Newmar was sold to Winnebago, I think the writing was on the wall. In order to compete on price, making large quantity deals on parts is important, and neither company could do that with the amount of units they put out.
Great video. I own a Thor product, a 2014 Redwood fifth wheel that I bought used, and have had only minor issues. I follow another You Tuber (Big Truck Big RV), and he was loaned a new Vanleigh fifth wheel, and he already has a laundry list of issues. I think there is a quality issue across all manufacturers, particularly newer models. Hopefully this buyout will solve this problem.
This purchase only benefitted Thor and its stockholders. It's not going to improve Tiffin Motorhomes in any way. It's certainly going to result in cost-cutting where they think people won't notice. I doubt bringing Thor quality to service is going to bring anyone a sigh of relief either. Eventually, some good people at Tiffin will probably get RIF'ed.
Bob Tiffin and sons have cashed out and good for them. If I were them, I’d divvy up that reported 300 million and retire. Businesses are built to be sold and make no mistake, that was the goal in 1972 when Tiffin started. People get too wrapped up in brand loyalty. It’s meaningless.
Might be good for Tiffin, but that's bad news for the consumers. Thor was never good in quality control and their after care customer service is not great too. Compare Airstream, now and then. Corporate buy out is never good. Look at Newmar after Winnebago buy out. Zappos said, nothing will change after Amazon's purchase of Zappos. Yah right! Less than 3 months, Amazon strarted to butt in on everything. Any industry, when big corporations buy out small companies, financially might get better, might make more and more money including the stock holders, but everything else 9 out of 10 times will go down the drain. What an disappointment Tiffin.
Was going to buy a Tiffin until I found out they have been bought out by Thor. I am getting a Newmar now😢. I wouldnt piss on thor if they were on fire. What happened to stopping Monopolies ?????????????????? Write your congressman! Stop this Ma Bell crap from happing again. Not just in the RV Business, but everywhere.
@@RVMiles Wow - I didn't realize Thor bought them in 2019! www.southdownsmotorcaravans.co.uk/news/363-erwin-hymer-group-sold-to-american-thor-industries.php
Tiffin does a superb job with paint, but their manufacturing floor is a total mess -- equipment, parts and sawdust everywhere. Amazing to me how they get anything accomplished.
I think the real test for all manufacturers is A) are you thoroughly inspecting every unit before shipping it, and B) do you stand by your warranty with excellent customer service. That's what Tiffin gets right, no matter how they get there.
It means Tiffin quality and customer service will drop significantly and several people in Red Bay, AL will lose their jobs as I'm sure Tiffin will be moved. I really don't think Bob Tiffin realizes the irreparable damage he has done to the Tiffin legacy. Such a same.
Time will only tell about quality, but I doubt Tiffin moves. I think the biggest benefit Thor gets from this is the southern manufacturing hub. The labor pool in Elkhart is drained. I bet we see plants for other Thor companies crop up in the Red Bay are. The Tiffin suppliers are a key component.
Everyone is quick to say Thor brings down quality in the company's its acquires, seems they have not affected DRV, Entegra or Redwood. These are still very high quality units. I dont see the doom and gloom that everyone else seems to see i guess. Everyone bitches about quality, but I suspect not many have gone to see how these units are made and talked to the men and women who are building them. If you want quality look at what it takes to build it. Go look at a Lux, or DRV or Spacecraft then look at the price. Not many are willing to pay for quality in my opinion, just my 2 cents
This is how this shakes out. In a few months, there will be people mentioning their Tiffin problems in Facebook groups. Normal problems that everybody has. Tiffin will deal with them as normal, but people that have never stepped foot in a Tiffin will be pointing to those problems as the downfall of Tiffin's quality. In reality, we have almost ZERO data on which brands are actually putting out quality. It's all hearsay. A lot of it true, and a lot of it not. Tiffin's quality may go downhill. Nobody really knows. But there's no way it's happening in the next few years.
Tiffin has babied their customers over the years so much that the dealers got lazy knowing that Tiffin would take care of the customers. This "entitlement" expectation from customers made them lazy too. Too lazy to fight their local dealers for better service. Perhaps Thor will stop this business model and develop a better dealer presence. They have an opportunity here to make Tiffin better by making the dealers better. This is their chance. But I don't have a lot of faith that they will.
Does this mean now that Tiffin will now be built by the Amish who have never camped let alone Rv’ed themselves one day in their lives? Can just another company going to shit!
Just another decline of a great brand. It will never be the same. We were going to get one next as I feel they are worth the premium. Not any longer. No way, no how. They will just become another mass produced RV. No longer worth the premium.
@@danamckittrick2162 True statement. A Tuscany never was and never will be confused for a Tiffin product. Every level product has a different price point
As a Tiffin owner I can tell you the customer experience is second to none. This is my sixth motorhome and my motto is if you own an RV "There is always something wrong or broken". When something goes wrong and I call my dealer they tell me to bring it in in 3 months and it will be 2-3 weeks before I get it back. As a Tiffin owner I have the option to drive to the service center in Red Bay, MS and I will be put in line for a repair bay. Meanwhile I'm camped in town with other Tiffin owners and when my bay opens up the repairs usually take 1 day with parts sold at cost and discounted labor.
Red Bay is in Alabama
Looks like Red Bay is a small town in Alabama very near the Mississippi border.
@@rbrad848 I stay in Mississippi when I’m there
Here's how it works. Thor starts out with the belief it will not change and not mess with the quality. But what happens is the new management has different physilosiphys. They will try to lean the plant cut cost. This will change the attitudes of the employees through benefits and other changes, then the work force don't like working there any longer and becomes just a job. Then quality starts slipping some by implementing cheap components to save money some by a disengaged workforce. It will take a few years but eventually you will have another Thor just more expensive. I hate it. Take a great company and make it mediocre. I know I work for one.
When Thor has become a monopoly player in the RV industry with the recent takeover of Tiffin motorhomes and the van lee division had Thor believe it won't mess with quality when owners would stay on as about a year later they are gone when new management has different physilosiphys when they lean out the plant that bad when the attitude of workers are affected when quality is slipping as those hope products Thor had touched becomes another in the line of being great before the takeover when they are now mediocre after.
Dead on
They always say the owners are staying on and then a year later, they're all gone and the company is hollowed out. Thor wants its money back and quickly.
We bought a new to use 2018 Tiffin Allegro Red 33aa with one reason of many, it being a family owned company known for quality and customer service. Being that the whole Tiffin staff has stayed on is a good thing. Thor industries has gaining a highly respected brand and we look forward to seeing what the future holds. Chasing RV Sunshine🌞- Joel, Deb & 🐕Maya
For anyone that didn't see the Bob Tiffin / Thor executive video they conveniently had the comments turned off and rightly so. There are a lot of Tiffin owners, like me, that see where this is going in the long term and it's sad. Thor will start using cheap parts here and there, cutting corners everywhere and the company that we've come to know and love will be a distant memory. I have always enjoyed the peace of mind knowing that if I had an issue or needed a part it was as easy as picking up the phone and calling Red Bay. You actually could talk to a person who didn't treat you like they were working a production job and getting an answer or ordering a part you needed. They will have an automated phone system before you know it and the personal service will no longer exist simply because of revenue generation. Bob Tiffin said in the video that he had been looking for a buyer for a long time. Well, now he has one much to the dismay and chagrin of his loyal customer base. Best wishes to the Tiffin family and heartfelt condolences to all Tiffin customers, past, present and future (for however long that may last).
Thor is driven by their stock values and their shareholders and only that.
Too true. Hopefully Thor shareholders realize the value of Tiffin lies in the quality.
Our first motorhome was a a new class C Thor and the quality was DISMAL. We always wanted a Tiffin and found a used Allegro Open Road earlier this year and were able to trade our Thor for it. So, naturally, I was very dismayed at first to hear that "Thor bought Tiffin". But, as you point out, Thor INDUSTRIES is not the same as Thor Motor Homes....and I surely did not know that Thor Ind. had purchased Airstream, much less 40 years ago!! So your take on this situation is very comforting to me. I wish the Tiffin family nothing but the best and thank them for our wonderful motorhome.
I got into RVing just a couple of years ago. I started with a travel trailer, then advanced to an older, but very beautiful Beaver. And this year, bit the bullet, and bought my dream RV, a Phaeton 44OH that was built before Thor was in the picture. Let’s just say that I am glad I bought a pre-Thor Tiffin, but sad that I didn’t do it a long time ago.
To all the loyal Tiffin people…. The ability to just call and talk to Bob is just incredible. Their service is also second to none. So if you know and trust Bob so much in the past, why not now? I saw his video with the Thor CEO. He said a couple key things…. One of which he said he and his family are still involved in the management. That they did this so they could focus more on their legendary service.
Glass half full vs glass half empty. Bob isn’t immortal, he is long past when most people retire. Perhaps this is his way to ensure the Tiffin legacy after he is gone. To control how his company transitions into an era when he can’t take customer phone calls anymore.
I for one am happy for Bob & his family. They created something special. They should be able to sell it if they choose.
Good objective video. You took the emotional ‘fear of the unknown’ bias out of it and presented facts.
Wow, just wow...
Tiffen was a 'homegrown Alabama storybook manufacturer employing many people in this state.
When the bean counters at Thor get there claws into Tiffen Motorhomes its going to become another Jayco. It won't take long for the new parent company to tear it all down.
There goes another great company. Everything I have looked at that has the Thor name on it is junk. Once great companies like Jayco have been "Thorized" and that's not a compliment. There are Thor products that I have looked at as I am in the market. But the workmanship and materials have not been great. So now, all we rvers can buy a Thor, Forest River or Winnebago. Wow. What a choice. Recently Winnebago had been cheapened but still is priced high vs the competition, and who knows what will happen to the "Winniemar"! Maybe it is time to give up rving. Can't find a campground anyway. RVs are expensive lawn ornaments. My last thought is this. Rv manufacturers should go camping sometime. Experience what you build. Experience the pain while your $175000 sits at a dealership for months further falling apart while you keep writing those monthly payment checks. Put a decent bumper to bumper warranty on your product if you believe in it. At least match Ford's warranty. Don't make YOUR customer fight the battle with YOUR suppliers who have sold you junk components. I owned 2 Tiffin's and Bob Tiffin stood behind his products and he fought the battles for his customers. Bob Tiffin, congratulations on having run a wonderful, customer oriented company. Thank you for being a true gentleman of the industry. You and your family are great people. Best wishes and Merry Christmas.
Hey there’s still Lazy Daze RV
The inventor of the quality class C motorhome.That manufacturer being in southern California with the complete political dysfunction there.The question is how much longer can they survive and stay independent? Remember Born Free motorhomes🦁🤔
If You Cant Fix IT Don't Buy IT
My friend is involved in lawsuit with Thor right now, this reminds me of Fender FMIC buying great US manufacturers of musical instruments and slowly destroying them.
Very sad day!
This will be a disaster for Tiffin! They (Tiffin) have a quality brand and superior service. Thor absolutely sucks no two ways about it! It will kill the Tiffin legacy!
Here we are two years later and the quality has gone down hill.
I met Bob Tiffin 6 years ago. Great guy who manufactures a great RV brand. I hope this buyout doesn’t ruin Tiffin.
It will not better it ... that’s a guarantee
dude Thor is the COVID 19 of the RV business
I wouldn't be too worried about Tiffin's quality going down. As you mentioned at around the 3 min. mark, Thor owns Airstream and has since the early 80's and their quality hasn't suffered from it.
I trust that they're going to be smart enough to know that the Tiffin line is, and needs to remain a quality line.
If Thor is interested in gaining traction with the high end RV buyer AND it makes financial sense on paper they might continue to make a quality product. Sadly, it gets down to dollars based on their data. They already have a plan in motion so let’s hope it benefits future RV buyers who appreciate quality over shortcuts. Great update... thanks for keeping us informed!
The Tiffin family worked very hard to get were they are at. Congrats to the Tiffin's. As far as quality it will remain the same, my personal opinion; Tiffin's quality is the same as Fleetwood, American Coach, Holiday Rambler, Entegra/ Jayco no better or no worse. Tiffin's customer service is were they stood out. Thor Inc, is the parent company not only to Airstream but many other brand i.e. Entegra Coach/Jayco, DRV
Yes, I think people are thinking “Thor Motorhomes” rather than “Thor Inc”. The parent company is known for encouraging competition from the individual brands, so I can’t see their meddling to ruin Tiffin’s well-earned reputation. They know doing so will ruin their $300M investment.
The first time Bob Tiffin has a disagreement with Thor management he will receive a nice broom-as a friendly gift....
is a old corporate marketing trick the family is gone . and the quality too
I'm still running my 2007 Phaeton and the paint and cabinets are still beautiful, of course I replaced some of the furniture. I will be glade when I'm done with RVs this will be my last one. I know a lot of new RV owners that have more problems than I do. RV repair business is a great business you will never be without work. I'm still waiting for 2020 to have a show on what a scam all the RVs are nation wide and why so many people are selling there life's work and savings on a purchase of an item that has such a loss in value. This brain washed value would have never happen with all the WW2 vets generation .
And with our complex tax laws, passing a privately owned company on to heirs becomes difficult and costly. That’s unfortunate.
But the heirs can buy the company for very little
I haven't see any line of RV that Thor bought that improved in quality. My uncle bought a Thor Ace with in months it caught fire and burned to the ground. Found oil line for the levelers routed over the exhaust pipe.
A friend of mine had an Ace and it was in the shop for 8 months the first year.
Thor is terrible!!! I have turned wrenches for over 50 years. I know quality when I see it. Tiffin was one of the last quality builders left in the RV industry. Thor has been and still is one of the worst. Thor just bought the hood emblem. Now watch over the next few years the quality wane.
I suspect this was a very nice equity event for the Tiffin family. I am happy for them, as they have earned it.
We can only hope, as the RV community, that Thor doesn’t screw up this amazing brand that has built terrific equity with consumers. But in that, I am skeptical... We shall see.
Excellent segment Jason! Thanks for your thoughts and insights.
Jason- I love watching your videos and look forward to next! I great mix of news and editorial both of which seem very well researched organized and expertly produced and presented! Please keep up the great work! Happy Holidays and I wish you your family great health and fortune in the new Year!
Thank you so much for the kind words! Best to you in the new year as well!
Bob won’t be at Quartzsite anymore, you used to be able to talk to him at La Mesa RV and get things fixed on you coach and his sons can’t run the company.
Like the eye roll to the right when you said you were fairly certain thor wouldn't miss with Tiffins quality
i saw that also....hmmm
Completely agree with your assessment.
Great coverage; as the other 2 video clips about this left a lot to be desired! 👍🏽👍🏽
Thank you so much!
I saw the title in my recommended, and for a moment I thought it meant Thor (from the Avengers) had bought an RV
This makes a life decision for us. We considered getting another RV when our 2018 Tiffin wears out. Nope. We will never get another motorhome with he quality and value we have today. Take the $$ and run. AirBnB, VRBO, ... all better options in the next generation. Maybe get a simple tent trailer for local camping fun. Thanks again Thor for making this decision for us ... and for Winnebago for making the decision to not get a Newmar. Now Bob Tiffin can retire in peace. My parents owned an Allegro 27' motorhome in 1980. You all have fun out there. See you all on the road for the next decade or so.
As an RV Tech, I have yet to seen any quality from a Thor product. Such a shame Tiffin has fallen prey to a merger such as this.
None of them? Airstream? DRV? Entegra? Customer satisfaction is pretty high with those brands. Appreciate your opinion.
This is a good thing for the Tiffin Family but a horrible this for the RV consumer.....limiting yet again, the availability of a true high-end luxury coach. I believe Bob Tiffin is a smart man and is looking at the market indicators for the industry and does not want to live through another 2008 at the helm.
I’m happy for Tiffan if they are happy they sold the company. Glad they’ll stay on. I heard they have great customer service., I like both company’s Thor and Tiffan. Class cs are my favorite and travel trailers. Thank you Jason for the information. Hope you have a Merry Christmas with your family.
While watching one of your videos, I wanted to take this time to say Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. From the bottom of my heart. God Bless....Jason
Thank you so much! To you as well! - Jason
That’s the end of Tiffin. Looks like I will have to look for another RV brand to purchase
I always associated Thor with pure crap !
Every Thor product I’ve seen was garbage, even by rv standards ... bold move cotton let’s see how it works out for em
I own a Tiffin, and im pissed! I agree with you Grey Gooses, back to ESPN 8....the Ocho...
Nice perspective. Thanks. Merry Xmas to you and family. Travel safe.
Thanks, Bob. Merry Christmas!
What RV brand of the many Thor has bought in the past has improved in quality? Enough said!
I felt like I was lucky to get rid of the Thor coach I owned. I’ve proudly owned both Tiffin and Newmar DP’s and now what do I do?
Very well said.
I wish I had a crystal ball but an Airstream isn't that special of an RV - just a silver wrapper on the better selections from the Lippert catalog. The Tiffin product was truly stand-out. I hope they can remain at the pinnacle but I don't think the owner base will be bragging about being in "Bob's Family" in a few years when he decides to retire and some MBA decides that Tiffing could be more profitable if they used more shared products with other Thor brands. Who knows, right? But Disney isn't the same without Walt and Apple isn't the same with Steve.
Totally agree with your Airstream take. We looked at them less than 2 years ago and I specifically put a hard eyeball on interior construction/appointments & level of quality. Was super un-impressed & frankly, a bit taken aback by the level of "meh" interior components & construction. Kinda like the Beatles, you either love 'em or don't get it. With Airstream we're in the 'don't get it' camp, but to each his/her own.
Great info thanks. I like your videos.
So if we want a Good Tiffin we have 12 months, maybe, of continued high quality builds....maybe. Damn! Tiffin was going to be our next class A step up. Crap so much for that. Everything thor touches turns to mud, not gold. We saw not one new rig we trusted that had a thor connection. We bought a well cared for 5 yr old used one because of that. I guess we won’t ever buy new at this rate..
Great breakdown of this situation!👍 I own a 2021 Tiffin Wayfarer and initially I was shocked and troubled by the acquisition. After I thought about it and saw Bob Tiffins explanation I came to the same conclusion as you did. I’m not worried about it. Will be visiting the Wayfarer plant in Winfield AL in April.
Before long, Amazon will own it all!
I have a Tiffin. Just hope Thor doesn’t screw things up.
the snoots are going crazy
You are right, Thor needs a quality brand and they need to leverage all brands to serve this segmented market.
Do not kid yourself. Thor will turn Tiffin into crap! Bob Tiffin and the current management team will probably not be there that long. Bob Tiffin cashed out while the cash out price is high with the current RV explosion with COVID. The man is smart and knew it was time to cash out. There is a reason (some of which you mentioned) why Tiffin margins are smaller. However, the largest margin pressure comes from customer service and Thor will kill it. They will not allow management to run on small margins as all large corporations push margin increase at any cost.
Such a said day for my plans as I was planning on purchasing a Tiffin diesel pusher next year for retirement. I can't believe I am going to have to switch plans now. The problem is that I have no where to turn now so may go back to my second option of Grand Design 5th wheel instead. At least Winnebago is not has bloated and customer hater liker Thor.
I bought a new 2020 Thor ,four winds ! I have less than 700 miles on it ! Absolute junk. Stove glass shattered going down the road ! Closet ceiling fill down with cloth bar , driving along, bathroom wall separated , water pump failed and dealer couldn’t even find it first day in shop! It’s stuck down in the very rear corner Inan impossible place to repair/ replace! Junk design.
Nothing but problems !
Tiffin used nice materials but their construction and QC was not impressive. My well maintained 2016 Tiffin started leaning on a trip from San Antonio to Seattle and I found most of the welds from the body to the chassis were broken. The welds had so many grapes it looked like Ernest and Julio did the job. I had a mobile repair guy reweld the connections. When I got where I was going I sold the thing. Thing had brand new Toyos all around too. I'm glad it's gone.
How does Thor use this to improve their own quality. Or just another brand gobbled up.
I think the biggest upside for Thor is a southern manufacturing hub. The Elkhart, Indiana labor pool is really tapped. I wouldn't be surprised to see a new Keystone or Jayco plant in Alabama.
Unfortunately this will dilute the prestige of the brand Thor is not known as a premium quality builder
They weren't that great! We have had nothing but problems with ours. Enjoy your new boss, Bob..
We’ll done segment. Good writing and presenting. But, I’m afraid I’m going with the comments. Power corrupts. Middle management is rewarded on short term numbers and the easiest way to get them is cutting costs, especially if you’re just building a resume and not a career with the company. Even a terrible manager can cut costs and the insured managers don’t want to wrk where that is wrongly rewarded and there is no appetite for spending resources on getting and keeping the best people. Congratulations to the seller family. So, why is it so hard to build a good RV, anyway?
The honest answer - it's not hard. People just buy the cheapest of the floorplan they like. So the "better made" RVs don't sell well.
Perfect example is Airstream,even more expensive and not what they used to be.Excella & now not Sowa😔
The Thor products I have looked had awful build quality straight from the factory - I wouldn't think of buying one.
This is sad news, I looked at a Tiffin when we bought our second coach but decided on a Winnebago because we liked the floor plan, quality and previous owners upgrades. Thor is a low end or entry level product. As mentioned below I'm sure the quality will decrease over a few years. Why does a new Thor cost the same as a quality coach 10 years older!
Thor Motorcoach is just one of Thor Industries 18 brands. They're all very separate. But that's a problem Thor needs to sort out, because the perception of their many brands is often influenced by the perception of the one entry- to mid-level brand.
Really, though, what happened? I saw a video made 9 years ago that was an interview with Bob Tiffin, talking about their history, and how they are still a family owned business and that was “never going to change.” What happened, did they get bit by the greed bug? Was it, “we make good money, just not enough of it.” Makes me sick.
Honestly, when Newmar was sold to Winnebago, I think the writing was on the wall. In order to compete on price, making large quantity deals on parts is important, and neither company could do that with the amount of units they put out.
Time will tell
Remington bought Marlin firearms. Different industry I know: but the same thing will happen.
The family took the money and left the customer holding the bag, quality on the way down
Exactly what I said! The family will never have to work again.
Hope the quality maintains! I understand the financial side of it!
Great video. I own a Thor product, a 2014 Redwood fifth wheel that I bought used, and have had only minor issues. I follow another You Tuber (Big Truck Big RV), and he was loaned a new Vanleigh fifth wheel, and he already has a laundry list of issues. I think there is a quality issue across all manufacturers, particularly newer models. Hopefully this buyout will solve this problem.
Thanks for the info!
This purchase only benefitted Thor and its stockholders. It's not going to improve Tiffin Motorhomes in any way. It's certainly going to result in cost-cutting where they think people won't notice. I doubt bringing Thor quality to service is going to bring anyone a sigh of relief either. Eventually, some good people at Tiffin will probably get RIF'ed.
I sold my 2019 Phaeton 40IH when Thor bought Tiffin. Hate Thor.
I guess Thors trying to corner the market.
Bob Tiffin and sons have cashed out and good for them. If I were them, I’d divvy up that reported 300 million and retire. Businesses are built to be sold and make no mistake, that was the goal in 1972 when Tiffin started.
People get too wrapped up in brand loyalty. It’s meaningless.
Might be good for Tiffin, but that's bad news for the consumers.
Thor was never good in quality control and their after care customer service is not great too.
Compare Airstream, now and then.
Corporate buy out is never good.
Look at Newmar after Winnebago buy out.
Zappos said, nothing will change after Amazon's purchase of Zappos. Yah right! Less than 3 months, Amazon strarted to butt in on everything.
Any industry, when big corporations buy out small companies, financially might get better, might make more and more money including the stock holders, but everything else 9 out of 10 times will go down the drain.
What an disappointment Tiffin.
Was going to buy a Tiffin until I found out they have been bought out by Thor. I am getting a Newmar now😢. I wouldnt piss on thor if they were on fire. What happened to stopping Monopolies ?????????????????? Write your congressman! Stop this Ma Bell crap from happing again. Not just in the RV Business, but everywhere.
Newmar was bought by Winnebago. Same issues.
No issues with my Marathon, doubt Thor has the pockets to purchase this company ha ha ha
The paid $2.5 Billion for Erwin Hymer
@@RVMiles Wow - I didn't realize Thor bought them in 2019! www.southdownsmotorcaravans.co.uk/news/363-erwin-hymer-group-sold-to-american-thor-industries.php
Tiffin does a superb job with paint, but their manufacturing floor is a total mess -- equipment, parts and sawdust everywhere. Amazing to me how they get anything accomplished.
I think the real test for all manufacturers is A) are you thoroughly inspecting every unit before shipping it, and B) do you stand by your warranty with excellent customer service. That's what Tiffin gets right, no matter how they get there.
It's naive to think Thor will not cheapen Tiffin. Everything Thor touches turns into cheap junk, regardless of brand.
After 7 years the family is gone 👍
Bob Tiffin took his money and deserted us. His family will never need to work again. That is what buyouts do with family business.
Why cut corners it not going to be quality rv if it is done
It means Tiffin quality and customer service will drop significantly and several people in Red Bay, AL will lose their jobs as I'm sure Tiffin will be moved. I really don't think Bob Tiffin realizes the irreparable damage he has done to the Tiffin legacy. Such a same.
Time will only tell about quality, but I doubt Tiffin moves. I think the biggest benefit Thor gets from this is the southern manufacturing hub. The labor pool in Elkhart is drained. I bet we see plants for other Thor companies crop up in the Red Bay are. The Tiffin suppliers are a key component.
Bye bye quality control
Merci beaucoup pour ces informations additionnelles, souhaitons que la qualité demeure. Joyeux Noël 🎄!!!
Merci d'avoir regardé, bonne année! Bonne santé!
Everyone is quick to say Thor brings down quality in the company's its acquires, seems they have not affected DRV, Entegra or Redwood. These are still very high quality units. I dont see the doom and gloom that everyone else seems to see i guess. Everyone bitches about quality, but I suspect not many have gone to see how these units are made and talked to the men and women who are building them. If you want quality look at what it takes to build it. Go look at a Lux, or DRV or Spacecraft then look at the price. Not many are willing to pay for quality in my opinion, just my 2 cents
This is how this shakes out. In a few months, there will be people mentioning their Tiffin problems in Facebook groups. Normal problems that everybody has. Tiffin will deal with them as normal, but people that have never stepped foot in a Tiffin will be pointing to those problems as the downfall of Tiffin's quality. In reality, we have almost ZERO data on which brands are actually putting out quality. It's all hearsay. A lot of it true, and a lot of it not. Tiffin's quality may go downhill. Nobody really knows. But there's no way it's happening in the next few years.
Tiffin gone that sucks
Another brand bites the dust.
They didn’t get bought out...they were sold!
Tiffin has babied their customers over the years so much that the dealers got lazy knowing that Tiffin would take care of the customers. This "entitlement" expectation from customers made them lazy too. Too lazy to fight their local dealers for better service. Perhaps Thor will stop this business model and develop a better dealer presence. They have an opportunity here to make Tiffin better by making the dealers better. This is their chance. But I don't have a lot of faith that they will.
Which are Thor top brands? I thought they were all pretty much trashy.
Airstream, DRV, Entegra, Erwin Hymer, Redwood
Thor rescued and brought back Road Trek after Hymer killed it. The new Road Treks are pretty nice.
Amen to that, brother.
@@RVMiles - Keep going....a ton more! LOL
Never liked Thor ... they never quit had it right!
Camping World 2.0
It means take your junk to camping world... they won’t surely fix nothing
At 2:40 I don't see how he can keep a straight face telling that lie!
Airstream? DRV? Redwood?
And Vanleigh is absolutely pronounced VAN-LEE
Does this mean now that Tiffin will now be built by the Amish who have never camped let alone Rv’ed themselves one day in their lives? Can just another company going to shit!
Just another decline of a great brand. It will never be the same. We were going to get one next as I feel they are worth the premium. Not any longer. No way, no how. They will just become another mass produced RV. No longer worth the premium.
Thor is garbage and terrible customer service regarding warranties. Tiffin will be destroyed by tiffin. Sad day in the tv world
Thor Industries purchased Tiffin. Not Thor Motorhomes. Keep things in perspective. Thor Industries has much to gain letting Tiffin succeed.
@@danamckittrick2162
True statement.
A Tuscany never was and never will be confused for a Tiffin product.
Every level product has a different price point
Means Tiffin will no longer be worth buying. Thor has a terrible reputation.
Thor ruined airstream and will ruin Tiffin
Thor will trash them just like they do to every other brand they buy out
common sense that Thor will help Tiffin. Tiffin's management group is staying on.
Thor makes crap RV's.
This is the American way unfortunately......
Thor is completely junk and they will continue to be junk as long as people continue to buy it they sacrifice quality for profits