Go to nordvpn.com/cobyexplanes to get the two year plan with an exclusive deal PLUS one month free. It’s risk free with NordVPN’s 30 day money back guarantee.
Aircraft manufactures can make their new jets spacious and comfortable, but it's all made pointless when carriers who buy the planes will outfit the interior to maximize profit over passenger comfort.
Except that airlines don't do that; they do two other things. The first is to dramatically increase passenger comfort which also increases profits and is in fact generating the majority of profit on flights. This is known as "business class." The second is to make as many passenger seats as possible available in their far less profitable area of the aircraft so as to make cheap tickets available to as many as possible. This is known as "economy class." The airlines would just _love_ it if passenger priority really was comfort; more people would buy business class tickets, business class sections would get bigger and the airlines would make more money. But while people might complain about being crammed into small seats, what they actually choose to buy reveals that most travelers' preference is for that if it saves them money. There's an old joke about revealed preference: Two economists are walking past a Porsche dealership. Looking in the window, one says to the other, "I want that car." The other says, "No you don't."
@@Curt_Sampson Incorrect. As someone who has done over 30 return flights LON to SYD we are not given the choice of 'just enough seat width + just enough leg room' It is becoming either very cramped in both pitch and seat width, or the next layer up, premium economy is 2.5x the price at best, up to 3x the economy price much of the time. Buisness class is 5x plus unless you get a very restrictive deal on Etiad for eg.
@@stephanguitar9778 Your post doesn't make sense: you say you were not given a choice, and then immediately say that you had a choice between the seat you took, premium economy and business class. In other words, you did have a choice. Your complaint about the much higher price is complicated by the fact that you were also taking advantage of airlines selling some seats at closer to marginal cost for an empty seat on an otherwise full flight; in other words, part of your share of the average cost per passenger in your class was subsidised for you by other passengers pay more than the average cost. An explanation of what's going on there is far more than can fit into a comment here, but if you search for "marginal cost of airline seats" you can find details about this.
@@Curt_Sampson I don't have a choice of a better seat purely because I cant afford it. I can however afford 20 or even 30% more, not 250% more. ie No choice for me. On par with having a choice between something worse than McDonalds for dinner and Lobster in a Michelin 3* restaurant wheras in the normal world there will be something inbetween. As for being subsidised, Bull-S**t, I fly around Europe on one class airlines which often cost more per mile than full service airlines doing long-haul, ie with zero business/first class passenger. Also to note, I dont take the cheapest available seat because I have to pay too much for changes etc so always pay quite a bit above the cheapest.
@@stephanguitar9778 _"As for being subsidised, Bull-S**t..."_ If you don't understand marginal costs and how more expensive seats are effectively subsidising cheaper seats on airline flights, you have no grasp at all on airline economics. That basically invalidates any complaints you have about pricing; your complaints stem from "I wish the world were like X" rather than any engagement with how the airlines really work. And my original point stands: airlines make the most profit on the seats that provide the _most_ passenger comfort, not the least. That's a basic fact, and from that is derived that those passengers are subsidising ones in economy seats that are being sold between the marginal cost of the flight for an economy class passenger and the average cost (including capital costs) per economy class passenger.
As travelers, we need Airbus, Boeing and all of the other manufacturers to do well. Should any of them fail, it will reduce competition, which ultimately hurts innovation.
I'm really disappointed that Airbus is configuring the A350 for 10 abreast in economy. One of the biggest reasons why the flying public dislikes the 787 is that airlines are configuring their airplanes for 9 abreast (economy) when it was initially designed for 8 abreast. I've flown on JAL's 787 with 8 abreast in economy, and it was one of the best flying experiences I had in economy although I'm not sure If JAL jumped on the bandwagon and went for 9 abreast economy. I've flown in AA's 777 with 10 abreast economy and it was bad! With the A350 and its narrower cabin (compared to the 777), one can imagine how miserable a flight (with 10 abreast) will be.
It seems that Airbus is developing a CabinFlex product for 10 abreast seating for the A350 since the MTOW has been increased that is based on the CabinFlex as seen on the A320neo and A321neo's and the Airspace will still have 9 abreast seating as seen on the A321neo, A321lr and A321xlr. By offering the A350 in 2 cabin styles will give airlines are better choose for cabin styles for their operations and increase A350 orders.
It seems they have been testing that new configuration with Lufthansa: I flew a Boston - Frankfurt flight on A350 for Xmas last year that was the most cramped I have ever felt; pretty sure it was a 3-4-3 configuration. Horrible. Based on that experience, I now check what plane and configuration I would get when booking flights to Europe, something I’ve never done before. I don’t mind paying a few extra bucks to avoid that nightmare. And I’m not even big or tall. I can’t imagine what it would be for someone on the bigger size.
I took a Cathay Pacific flight 3 years ago in Economy class with the 9 abreast seating configuration. The shoulder room is insufficient with just normal sized human beings beside you. Disappointing seating but a nice modern jet.
I'm not sure I'd call the A350 XWB a loser in this situation. The future passengers of the jet? Maybe. I certainly don't welcome the news. But from a business perspective, the airlines will almost surely see this as a win and could boost sales.
Small tiny problem: that delta order is for the MAX 10, the same plane that can’t pass certification most likely and that the CEO threatened to cancel.
@@herceg6772 Yes, List price is only for enthusiast. If Airbus doesn't have full bookings this case should be going to FTA commission. As dumping tactics
As you said in a different video, the main operators of the A350 are some of the best in the world, who kept 9 abreast on the 777, so most a350s will probably have 3-3-3
That 737 MAX deal really seems suspicious and somewhat reeks of desperation on Boeing part. But maybe that's just my bias against 737 MAX - I think that plane should have never been made, as its essentially just a 60-year old 707 fuselage fitted with giant engines. Boeing should have focused on the 757 instead.
Love the channel, loved the video, one slight correction. Farnborough is pronounced Farn-Bruh, rather than Farn-Boro. I lived there for 2 years and worked on the airfield. This is a common mistake when Americans attempt to pronounce cities ending in -borough, generally its a bruh, or bor-uh, and never -boro with a hard o at the end. Otherwise, great content! keep it up!
Profiteering stands above passenger comfort. If airliners can put more people into a plane, they make more profits. In the end, it is all about making more and more money.
That is why we need democratic control and a system in which passenger needs are put above the greed of airliners. We need to expropriate all airliners and put them under democratic control of society. This unfortunate is not possible under capitalism.
Loved your content. However, since your video is directed tô people all over the over the world and not only the US, I suggest that you use metric system
I don’t think Airbus was a loser honestly - they’ve been racking up some incredible deals post-covid while Boeing had remained stagnant. Their two largest “issues” right now (from a sales perspective) is that their A320 family backlog is at like ~6 years right now! As a result, their aircraft are also demanding a premium price (especially the more capable ones like the XLR.) I’m assuming Boeing practically gave away the MAX-10s to delta honestly - this deal HAD to happen for PR reasons, and didn’t really make a whole lot of sense for Delta honestly. As I mentioned above, a likely reason for it is simply unreasonably long delivery slots vs. Boeing - then again, the A321 NEO would have also commanded quite the price premium over the 737-10. Even with the 100 737s, Airbus still handily owns the market. I will say that they probably would have liked to secure some more widebody orders, but oh well. I would call the 777X a loser btw, it’s incurring unbelievable delays for an aircraft which was supposed to be an “easy” upgrade - at this point it has lost a ton of momentum. It’s becoming clear that it will likely be far more successful as a freighter, though Airbus threw a wrench into that with the announcement of the A350F a while ago - it’s odd that customers have a competing option moving forward, as Boeing has just automatically owned the marked historically. For now, I think Airbus is tapped out. If they can’t build planes faster, they’re likely not going to be able to sell them (A320 lines.) It’s a good problem to have, but certainly makes shows like this frustrating for them from a PR-perspective.
Very accurate and true comment. This guy Coby is so obviously pro Boeing that I've almost abandoned the channel. Boeing is a great company but let be honest now they are behind Airbus on the world market.
also the week before the show airbus announced 100+ aircraft to various chinese airlines. If they really about some winner/loser competition they would have waited a week to announce it
@@yenlard6683 The last delay I heard about was the FAA told them last year that due to faults encountered in testing they weren't going to get certification until late 2023. The reason has not been publicized that I know of, and I have not heard of why Boeing is now slipping first delivery from 2024 to 2025. My suspicion is that their war on engineering has resulted in them being unable to attract the people they need to get the job done in a reasonable time. This isn't the Boeing that did the first 777 by the numbers. For comparison, the A350 first flew in 2013 and was first delivered in 2015, and has never been grounded, or stop-shipped. They do have a paint issue, but that isn't in the same order of magnitude as being grounded and having deliveries stopped on two families.
Thanks for the wrap up although I found it somewhat skewed in favour of Boeing, Airbus continues to dominate, Boeing is enjoying some localised hype with beleaguered products being reintroduced while Airbus’ consistent excellence is less exciting. I totally agree on the Chinese program, it would be fair to say China is less showy than the west but I did expect to see something on the long awaited nation mover. Absolutely delighted for Embraer, as good as A220 is E2 deserved much more attention than it got so it’s good to see it finally being recognised for how remarkable it is.
I banned 777 10 abreast years ago. If A350 goes this way, they too will be banned. An A320 or 737 seat is more comfortable. If the cost of premium economy wasnt 2.5 to 3x economy I would do that but on the London to Australia routes, that's the price of upgrade. As the A350 will be used as long haul, this would be a disgrace and an insult to passengers. Crossed arms and shoulders with snoring, dribbling passengers in the next seat is disgusting.
@@jcasb9843 The manufacturers are pandering to the airlines. In no way shape or form is this even safe, either re things like DVT, extreme close proximity to other peoples breathing, nor if there is an accident and panic to get out.
I think it’s safe to say that this has been Boeing’s Airshow. They have scored such huge deals during the 2022 Farnborough Airshow. To be honest, I was expecting Airbus so also rack up some sizable orders as well, but at least they still got good deals. I’m also pretty happy for Embraer as their E-Jet E2 program is finally getting some good orders. Overall, it’s nice to see healthy competition in the Aviation Industry.
@@kirtwilliams549 Delta is a well known opportunistic buyer that shops cheap, and there's no reason for them not to buy Boeing. Qatar has burnt bridge and won't order Airbus for a considerable time (nor Airbus wants to have any affairs with them). CargoLux is a bit of a surprise, but others are either top-ups or long rumoured.
@Baxter The Goldendoodle - try adding in the 311 aircraft order from China announced a week ago on to the orders at Farnborough and then see who won most.
How heavily discounted were the 737 Max and 787 for Boeing to pick up sales after the horrendous flaws they encountered? I mean, it has to be a big gamble for the airlines with public confidence in Boeing having hit rock bottom!
I think Airbus can not be seen as a „loser“ simply for the reason that Airbus is so much more and Airbus heicopters and Airbus Defence had some huge wins during the air show. Also, I do strongly believe, That boeing although it is recovering will Fall behind Airbus in the next years, as they have to First Balance out all the loss and Bad reputation from the 737max series and therefore will not be abel to participate in crucial Research to more enviromentally friendly flying giving Airbus a head Start.
The elephant in the room is that a. MAX is not as competitive as 320NEO as a whole, while simply can't undercut A220. b. 787 has an edge over 330NEO, but demand for widebody is weak at the moment. Not to mention 787's production issues has made 330NEO more attractive in terms of delivery than usual. c. Freighter is booming, but Airbus is start eating Boeing's lunch. Airbus doesn't have to overtake Boeing to hurt the latter's profitability - they just has to be there, and Boeing can no longer set the price as they wish. Don't get me wrong, 321 and 350 are solid freighters, but it takes time and effort to establish their footholds. But nevertheless Boeing earned a few big orders, especially for MAX10 and 777XF are significant. This gives them some room to breath.
The Max-10 situation is quite precarious though since Boeing has recently threatened to Axe it. This has to do that if it isn't certified before the end of this year, A big Cockpit modification will have to be implemented. This would mean that the Max-10 loses a lot of commonality with other 737's and would mean costly retraining for Airlines.
More than the cockpit, they would have to replace the systems. The 737 is still a 1950s design under the skin. It doesn't have the technology to provide the information needed to inform an EICAS system.
It is not Farnburrow, it is Farnburrah and I should know having sat through the first 4 days worth of displays including watching the A350 and 777X do low level turns and banks over a heavily built up area, plus the F-35 coming in on Tuesday
I appreciate that you gave the easy to understand example of how it should be pronounced (showing how it would be written if phonetically pronounced in most accents in English) rather than just being like "It hurts my soul when Americans butcher Farnborough" so many others do.
@@ericburton5163 Eric there is an apocryphal tale about an American at a London station asking where he can catch the train to Loogy baroogy (Loughborough) 😊
Great all in one video going over everything. So much better than DJ’s Aviation who just made a bunch of boring short videos over the course of the show
Well, CSeries delays and Bishop expansion cancellation have been holding them back. They are now resuming their long due growth with E2 and new Pearson hub.
777X seemed like a mix bag. We don't know how big that Cargolux order is, but they're using it to replace their 747-400s. They only have 15 of those so assuming they do a one for one replacement, that would mean 17 total orders (2 went to ANA as well). That's not bad but the plane hasn't had a real blockbuster deal yet, and considering the market for air cargo is red hot right now this weekend seemed like a great opportunity for one
@@cobyexplanes Cargolux is not a bad win though. While Qatar, ANA, Lufthansa and Ethiopian are big orders, most of them either have 777F, 777X pax, or both, so naturally they'd pick 777XF. On the other hand, Silk Way, CMA CGA turned their backs against 777XF, while AF and Etihad seem to pass 777X altogether. Cargolux is a good endorsement as they didn't have 777F and obviously 350s, but end up picked 777XF. Boeing would be happy to stop A350s from carrying Cargolux callsigns. We'd see how well A&B win hearts and minds of other new customers. But pax I'm more doubtful. A weak widebody market together with a prospect of 10-abreast 35K aren't good news for 779.
@@steinwaldmadchen I wouldn't be that doubtful about pax 779. Back in the 90's the 777 only had a couple hundred orders and look what it turned into. Just give it time and be patient, the program will turn out a lot differently than people think.
@@JackJohnson3119 Then you should. 777 is a very capable aircraft, just that it's not the most lightweight and optimised one. When there's a "just right" aircraft 777 simply can't compete. 772 sales dried up when 333 became more capable. 35K at 10 abreast flies further and slightly faster than 779, while burning 10% less per trip and being 35t lighter. What advantages does 779 have other than slightly more capacity? Even at 9 abreast it basically slashs 778. Even before the 10-abreast thing, some of the earliest 77W operators has already opted for 350 instead. How many replacement market can 777X realistically take? Freighter is where 777X still has an edge, but it lost the monopoly 777F enjoyed anyway. CMA CGA, Air France and Etihad didn't choose 777XF as their 777F replacement.
Considering that order will break the Air Canada Monopoly on premium domestic flights, that's not a Loss, once people see what Porter can do with the E2, it'll start selling like hot cakes (especially the E170 and E175-E2, the CRJs are coming up on retirement.)
@@Dexter037S4 Porter is not a "blue chip" carrier yet. Think about Delta for 330NEO, or Swiss for CSeries. They are established carriers that have traced recrods of profitability, and probably would remain operation for years. Yet they put their faith on an unproven program, order the aircraft with a considerable numbers, operate for a considerable period of time, and keep a healthy after market. They may also participate in used market, which is welcomed by lessors, smaller carriers and freighter conversion vendors. These give confidence and practical benefits to other potential buyers. airBaltic or even AirAsiaX, despite their massive orders, didn't carry as much as weight as the blue chips. In fact, E2 and 338 (Hawaiian) already lose a few sales battles, partly because the potential customers don't want to owe an orphad. A220 has more than enough big names on board together with a large enough order books, so it will sell no matter what happens on Embraer side. E2 on the other hand still need to catch up. The biggest issue for E175-E2 is that it is out of scope clause in North America, meaning the largest customers for E170 can't order it. Meanwhile in Europe or elsewhere, they don't usually take E175-E2 because of its inferior fuel economy (either E190/E195-E2 or A220). Unfortunately this aircraft is overweight.
This video is so surprisingly skewed in favour of Boeing, it downplayed so many of the horrible possibilities they are looking at. The Delta deal for example was achieved at a massive fucking discount to save Boeing, and with all the systemic quality issues profligate at Boeing, we will be looking forward to more Delta airline appearances in future Air Crash Investigations episodes.
Englishman here: Weird fact, we pronounce Farnborough the same as Edinburgh (in fact Farnbrugh!). So you are pronouncing it right according to spelling. How very silly on our part.
Excellent content, beautifully produced and very informative. But, being an old pedant, every time I heard Farnborough mispronounced, it did jar slightly! Farnborough is commonly pronounced with either two syllables or three (Farn-bruh and Farn-buh-ruh) with the final vowel being closer to what linguists call a schwa (an unstressed vowel). ua-cam.com/video/kjVp_xr0WR0/v-deo.html (and certainly not Farn-buh- ROE!) ... but once again, thanks for a great show report 🙂
I wouldn't say 10-abreast 350 is a bad news for either Airbus or the airlines, though. Currently 359 has but slightly fewer seats than similar sized 78J, hence having poorer seat cost. 35K on the other hand both burns and carries significantly less than 779, so neither can easily undercut each other. With 10-abreast however 359 can match or exceed 78J in terms of seat count, while closing the capacity gap with 779. In both cases 350 would not only have advantage in range, but also in cost. That would be welcomed by some potential 350 users and Airbus in sales campaign. Do note that 350 uses 1.5" armrests instead of standard 2" from day 1. Airbus can therefore widen the cabin by just ~4" to claim 10-abreast at 17", despite current A350 is 10" narrower than 77W in terms of cabin. It still means the seats would be more cramped than the 77W though.
I am a skinny guy and the worst aspect of Cathay Pacific’s A350 was the 9 abreast seating in Economy. My two normal size travellers were stealing my armrest space. Sometimes our shoulders could touch. Yikes, and this was pre-covid.
Airbus needs widebody orders, but in terms of narrowbodies, they need to actually build more planes before they can expect to get more orders, that wait line is ridiculously long
This video is incredibly biased towards Boeing. According to your video, 9 orders was a win for the 787 and Boeing while Airbus apparently "lost" after securing over one hundred orders for A320 family aircraft including the brand new A321neoXLR. Of course Boeing capitalized on the airshow and secured hundreds of orders for the Max but saying the A350 "lost" because of a few inches of cabin width is simply untrue. To add to this, you can't base Airbus' success on rumors and how they eventually didn't come to fruition. For example, people believed the 777X would sell a lot at the airshow but due to the recent postponing of the 777X, they didn't receive as many orders as was hoped but you would never mention that in your video. It would be more accurate to say Boeing did better than Airbus while Airbus, although lacking in it's ability to capitalize on the airshow, still did well under the circumstances such as recovering from the pandemic etc. But apparently it's completely fine to praise Boeing because you are an American talking to Americans.
@@cobyexplanes I get that 9 787 orders are a big deal due to the fact that the program has stagnated over the past year but equally you said that the fact that Airbus has added 1 extra seat in width to the A350 while also promising to increase cabin width, is just a outright loss for the aircraft. I think you can agree that this is nothing to do with order size while also being completely inaccurate. Also, to simply cast aside the successes of the A320 family is just unfair. It also poorly represents how well Airbus has marketed the aircraft for the post pandemic industry where the new emphasis is on point-to-point flying. Also, marketing the Max post-pandemic is something that Boeing has been worse at doing than Airbus due to the fact that the Max order books are about 25% less than that of the A320 family but again, you don't mention that, in fact according to you the Max was a massive success simply because of the size of it's orders as opposed to "context". You also have to be able to see that your praising of Boeing and criticizing of Airbus is night and day.
@@kenka25101 … Agree 100%.. Appears to come across as being a Boeing fan boy !! Massive let down? 4 seats together makes for better family options for sitting together.. Independent video would make for better viewing..
Re: A350 XWB - nobody is _forcing_ airlines to adopt 10 abreast seating in the economy. Heck, they don't even have to _have_ economy section, if they recon that's how they will earn more. This has nothing to do with the aircraft, and everything to do with airline business model.
If this is supposed to be "winners and Losers at Farnborough", perhaps it would have been good to actually have some Farnborough footage? Otherwise, this is just a smoke screen for selling something...
If you are going to make a video about somewhere, at least say the name correctly. You can’t make a video about something that you can’t even say correctly. Do your research next time. It’s pronounced farnbruh, not farnborrow
You didn't mentioned the fact that Boeing is planning to cancel 737 Max 10 if congress doesn't give them extension for a law which mandidated to update all the aircraft warning systems. Because if certification doesn't happen this year, then Boeing will have to completely redesign the cockpit of 737 Max 10.
And this if correctly done can make all EASA and CAAC orders impossible, because they lose common type rating. That's basically lost case, with Max10. That's mean u need new pilots to fly it.
I have nothing to correct you on!! Coby your segments flow nicely...great visuals and I discover helpful facts. Your personality of "going positive" is refreshing considering the choices. I look forward to your 797 update! Thank you for your many hours putting these together for us!
If I recalls correctly it didn’t make a lot of progress because the open rotor design was super loud and couldn’t meet regulatory noise standards. But the fuel saving potential is huge
I very much like you to do video on air show please !!! All your videos are great !!! But I am sure that I am not the only person watching you from outside the US !! So when you tell a measurement, please also tell or write the equivalent in the metric system. The whole part on the A350 width is a lot less interesting if you have no idea how much you are talking. Thanks.
Lol, what a joke of a video, Boeing 777x is the biggest loser probably on this show because nobody wants it, they were talks of taking the 777x off production due to issues with supply chain and other issues.
A comment about your channel, in general. You seem to know as much about the airline industry and the aircraft manufacturer industry as Vladimir Putin knows about the infield fly rule. Reading trade publications like AW&ST does not qualify you as a credible industry analyst. What are your qualifications as an industry analyst?
@tahnalos Here's the catch - A350 uses 1.5" armrests as opposed to 2" anywhere else. So in theory Airbus can claim the same 17" 10 abreast as 77W, with a 6.5" narrower cabin. Currently 350 has a 10" narrower fuselage, and 4" widening should be low hanging fruit - Boeing did the same on 777X as well. Otherwise they may also narrow the aisles by a bit? While for airlines they can lower CASM by 10% for almost nothing, for Airbus that also means they can almost match 779 capacity without a more expensive stretch. Unfortunately there's no reason why both parties wouldn't proceed. They don't really care about Y pax comforts.
The 10-abreast comparison A350 vs 777 is a bit dodgy since the 777 fuselage is circular, while the A350 fuselage is not. So the Airbus idea of carving out extra interior diameter by resculpting the inner wall panels makes sense. It will offer an 'okay' (admittedly not great) 10 abreast experience on mid-haul routes with UNBEATABLE per seat economies.
Biased video, defining "winners" and "losers" on mostly arbitrary conditions. I don't think the two categories are fair in the first place. As long as we see competition and progress it's all good. No one actually "loses".
Porter gave up on the a220 because Toronto city centre airport needed to be expanded but the city struck it down and I guess in the time since airbus bought the program they’ve had a change of heart.
@tahnalos Regarding the political thing, I won't be surprised if E2 isn't a big middle finger to those who turned down Bishop expansion. CSeries isn't not only slightly better on field performance, but also domestic built, so they can have the "support local economy" narrative than let's say, E-jet or ATR. Once this prospect is gone Porter can get whatever aircraft that make sense, and E2 are quite similar in terms of economy.
@tahnalos I see. I'm not a Canadian so I'm not 100% sure. But I think the original CSeries order was sort of a bundled deal to an extension of Bishop's runway and facilities, together with a bridge or sth like that? That sounds very political even for an outsider like me.
Porter’s deal for the C-Series expired. They would have ended up at the back of the list for deliveries and prices would be at current prices. Embraer having the available delivery schedule and low sales I’m sure lead to a hell of a deal for Porter. The schedule was originally to receive 2 planes per month until the 30 were delivered. Now with the Transport Canada certification delays and additional orders they could be looking at close to 3 planes a month. I guess Porter being a jet operator is a new start up but the company has been operating for 16years now so not really a start up. Looking forward to what I can expect and figure will be a JetBlue style service in Canada
I flown on a 3-4-3 economy class 777-300ER with EVA Air once, definitely not recommended because it was too tight. Same with 3-4-3 on a 747-400. Airlines should have look at JAL where they do 2-4-2 economy and it was so much better for passenger comfort.
the XWB being 6 inches wider in the body, across 9 seats, does not sound like it goes a long way in improving comfort. that's less than 1 inches more per seat, assuming the aisles are kept the same width. Does it really make it that much better?
Go to nordvpn.com/cobyexplanes to get the two year plan with an exclusive deal PLUS one month free. It’s risk free with NordVPN’s 30 day money back guarantee.
stop the cap
nah
No.
Condor Airlines just came through for Airbus. lol
X
Disappointed we didn’t see get to see Boris Johnson parachute into the show :(
lmao
But Paris Hilton parachuted in ...
If only
@@cobyexplanes If only
@@cobyexplanes If only
Aircraft manufactures can make their new jets spacious and comfortable, but it's all made pointless when carriers who buy the planes will outfit the interior to maximize profit over passenger comfort.
Except that airlines don't do that; they do two other things. The first is to dramatically increase passenger comfort which also increases profits and is in fact generating the majority of profit on flights. This is known as "business class." The second is to make as many passenger seats as possible available in their far less profitable area of the aircraft so as to make cheap tickets available to as many as possible. This is known as "economy class."
The airlines would just _love_ it if passenger priority really was comfort; more people would buy business class tickets, business class sections would get bigger and the airlines would make more money. But while people might complain about being crammed into small seats, what they actually choose to buy reveals that most travelers' preference is for that if it saves them money.
There's an old joke about revealed preference: Two economists are walking past a Porsche dealership. Looking in the window, one says to the other, "I want that car." The other says, "No you don't."
@@Curt_Sampson Incorrect. As someone who has done over 30 return flights LON to SYD we are not given the choice of 'just enough seat width + just enough leg room' It is becoming either very cramped in both pitch and seat width, or the next layer up, premium economy is 2.5x the price at best, up to 3x the economy price much of the time. Buisness class is 5x plus unless you get a very restrictive deal on Etiad for eg.
@@stephanguitar9778 Your post doesn't make sense: you say you were not given a choice, and then immediately say that you had a choice between the seat you took, premium economy and business class. In other words, you did have a choice.
Your complaint about the much higher price is complicated by the fact that you were also taking advantage of airlines selling some seats at closer to marginal cost for an empty seat on an otherwise full flight; in other words, part of your share of the average cost per passenger in your class was subsidised for you by other passengers pay more than the average cost. An explanation of what's going on there is far more than can fit into a comment here, but if you search for "marginal cost of airline seats" you can find details about this.
@@Curt_Sampson I don't have a choice of a better seat purely because I cant afford it. I can however afford 20 or even 30% more, not 250% more. ie No choice for me. On par with having a choice between something worse than McDonalds for dinner and Lobster in a Michelin 3* restaurant wheras in the normal world there will be something inbetween. As for being subsidised, Bull-S**t, I fly around Europe on one class airlines which often cost more per mile than full service airlines doing long-haul, ie with zero business/first class passenger. Also to note, I dont take the cheapest available seat because I have to pay too much for changes etc so always pay quite a bit above the cheapest.
@@stephanguitar9778 _"As for being subsidised, Bull-S**t..."_ If you don't understand marginal costs and how more expensive seats are effectively subsidising cheaper seats on airline flights, you have no grasp at all on airline economics. That basically invalidates any complaints you have about pricing; your complaints stem from "I wish the world were like X" rather than any engagement with how the airlines really work.
And my original point stands: airlines make the most profit on the seats that provide the _most_ passenger comfort, not the least. That's a basic fact, and from that is derived that those passengers are subsidising ones in economy seats that are being sold between the marginal cost of the flight for an economy class passenger and the average cost (including capital costs) per economy class passenger.
As travelers, we need Airbus, Boeing and all of the other manufacturers to do well. Should any of them fail, it will reduce competition, which ultimately hurts innovation.
@LLC Agreed.
I'm really disappointed that Airbus is configuring the A350 for 10 abreast in economy. One of the biggest reasons why the flying public dislikes the 787 is that airlines are configuring their airplanes for 9 abreast (economy) when it was initially designed for 8 abreast. I've flown on JAL's 787 with 8 abreast in economy, and it was one of the best flying experiences I had in economy although I'm not sure If JAL jumped on the bandwagon and went for 9 abreast economy. I've flown in AA's 777 with 10 abreast economy and it was bad! With the A350 and its narrower cabin (compared to the 777), one can imagine how miserable a flight (with 10 abreast) will be.
It seems that Airbus is developing a CabinFlex product for 10 abreast seating for the A350 since the MTOW has been increased that is based on the CabinFlex as seen on the A320neo and A321neo's and the Airspace will still have 9 abreast seating as seen on the A321neo, A321lr and A321xlr. By offering the A350 in 2 cabin styles will give airlines are better choose for cabin styles for their operations and increase A350 orders.
It seems they have been testing that new configuration with Lufthansa: I flew a Boston - Frankfurt flight on A350 for Xmas last year that was the most cramped I have ever felt; pretty sure it was a 3-4-3 configuration. Horrible. Based on that experience, I now check what plane and configuration I would get when booking flights to Europe, something I’ve never done before. I don’t mind paying a few extra bucks to avoid that nightmare. And I’m not even big or tall. I can’t imagine what it would be for someone on the bigger size.
If you don’t want to fly in planes that have 10seats per row then vote with your wallet. Don’t fly with airlines that use it
nothing to do with Airbus, thats down the the airline
I have flown BA ten abreast quite a few times and it's pretty good. It's economy after all
Great video! Looking forward to the 797 vid next week :)
Had a feeling the 10-abreast A350 was inevitable. Once the 777 did it, you know the A350 would as well. Big let down there.
I agree. The A350 even has a narrower interior cabin width than the 777!
I took a Cathay Pacific flight 3 years ago in Economy class with the 9 abreast seating configuration. The shoulder room is insufficient with just normal sized human beings beside you. Disappointing seating but a nice modern jet.
blame the airline
I'm not sure I'd call the A350 XWB a loser in this situation. The future passengers of the jet? Maybe. I certainly don't welcome the news. But from a business perspective, the airlines will almost surely see this as a win and could boost sales.
Consider that Delta, who’s flagship is the A350, kept 3-3-3 on their triple sevens, so they’re probably going to keep it on the A350.
Small tiny problem: that delta order is for the MAX 10, the same plane that can’t pass certification most likely and that the CEO threatened to cancel.
I don’t get it either. Boeing is just giving them for free. No other logical answer.
Exactly! And it will require an extension from Congress regarding a law to update the cockpit of the aircraft.
@@herceg6772 Yes, List price is only for enthusiast. If Airbus doesn't have full bookings this case should be going to FTA commission. As dumping tactics
Haha “Dumping” catches up with Boeing.
LOVE the format !
Awesome video Coby. Thanks for the info and updates!
As you said in a different video, the main operators of the A350 are some of the best in the world, who kept 9 abreast on the 777, so most a350s will probably have 3-3-3
WOOO! Good for Boeing. I hope they don't have any production issues like they had with the triple-7.
I still enjoy this Format
Great article. Thanks for your coverage.
That 737 MAX deal really seems suspicious and somewhat reeks of desperation on Boeing part. But maybe that's just my bias against 737 MAX - I think that plane should have never been made, as its essentially just a 60-year old 707 fuselage fitted with giant engines. Boeing should have focused on the 757 instead.
Boeing shouldn't be allowed to keep selling planes. Hundreds of people were killed by them because of their cost cutting and cutting corners
Love the channel, loved the video, one slight correction.
Farnborough is pronounced Farn-Bruh, rather than Farn-Boro. I lived there for 2 years and worked on the airfield.
This is a common mistake when Americans attempt to pronounce cities ending in -borough, generally its a bruh, or bor-uh, and never -boro with a hard o at the end.
Otherwise, great content! keep it up!
Availability is the key…ordering an XLR delivered in 2027 only is a bit frustrating…so winners are just gap fillers…
To no surprise, the airliners would definitely want more seats per unit of passenger area. Unsurprising but not shocked.
Nice overview. Thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
Hard to believe Boeing is retaining the “Max” suffix. Talk about stigma.
I believe we will know the chosen ones when we see them actually flying.
During the part about the 787 you showed a Eva air 787 and you said the source was "Eve air"
Profiteering stands above passenger comfort. If airliners can put more people into a plane, they make more profits. In the end, it is all about making more and more money.
That is why we need democratic control and a system in which passenger needs are put above the greed of airliners. We need to expropriate all airliners and put them under democratic control of society. This unfortunate is not possible under capitalism.
Thank you for sharing..
Loved your content. However, since your video is directed tô people all over the over the world and not only the US, I suggest that you use metric system
Awesome video, thanks!!
Any chance you believe Delta may add 787s to long haul routes and retire more 767s?
Probably not - they seem pretty content with their A330neos. Don't think there's currently space in their fleet for both of them
@@cobyexplanes thank you
Mate, you really are a hardcore Boeing supporter 🤣
Interesting, thanks. BTW -it's Farn-bor-ah - NOT Farn-bor-oh. That place doesn't exist :)
Travel will have to get back to what it was like 2 1/2 years ago if it is going to fully recover. It has to be reliable. And not poxy.
I don’t think Airbus was a loser honestly - they’ve been racking up some incredible deals post-covid while Boeing had remained stagnant.
Their two largest “issues” right now (from a sales perspective) is that their A320 family backlog is at like ~6 years right now! As a result, their aircraft are also demanding a premium price (especially the more capable ones like the XLR.)
I’m assuming Boeing practically gave away the MAX-10s to delta honestly - this deal HAD to happen for PR reasons, and didn’t really make a whole lot of sense for Delta honestly. As I mentioned above, a likely reason for it is simply unreasonably long delivery slots vs. Boeing - then again, the A321 NEO would have also commanded quite the price premium over the 737-10.
Even with the 100 737s, Airbus still handily owns the market. I will say that they probably would have liked to secure some more widebody orders, but oh well.
I would call the 777X a loser btw, it’s incurring unbelievable delays for an aircraft which was supposed to be an “easy” upgrade - at this point it has lost a ton of momentum. It’s becoming clear that it will likely be far more successful as a freighter, though Airbus threw a wrench into that with the announcement of the A350F a while ago - it’s odd that customers have a competing option moving forward, as Boeing has just automatically owned the marked historically.
For now, I think Airbus is tapped out. If they can’t build planes faster, they’re likely not going to be able to sell them (A320 lines.) It’s a good problem to have, but certainly makes shows like this frustrating for them from a PR-perspective.
Very accurate and true comment. This guy Coby is so obviously pro Boeing that I've almost abandoned the channel. Boeing is a great company but let be honest now they are behind Airbus on the world market.
also the week before the show airbus announced 100+ aircraft to various chinese airlines. If they really about some winner/loser competition they would have waited a week to announce it
@@richardthomson4693 298..not 100+
I agree Alex!
You are right. Seems like an opinion that results Boeing no mather what!
Glad to see Embraer on this list. They make some great planes!!
I feel that the 777X should have been in the Loser category, further delays beyond 2025 could have serious implications for the programme!
Why was it delayed again ?
@@yenlard6683 The last delay I heard about was the FAA told them last year that due to faults encountered in testing they weren't going to get certification until late 2023. The reason has not been publicized that I know of, and I have not heard of why Boeing is now slipping first delivery from 2024 to 2025. My suspicion is that their war on engineering has resulted in them being unable to attract the people they need to get the job done in a reasonable time. This isn't the Boeing that did the first 777 by the numbers. For comparison, the A350 first flew in 2013 and was first delivered in 2015, and has never been grounded, or stop-shipped. They do have a paint issue, but that isn't in the same order of magnitude as being grounded and having deliveries stopped on two families.
@@cageordie thanks
Thanks for the wrap up although I found it somewhat skewed in favour of Boeing, Airbus continues to dominate, Boeing is enjoying some localised hype with beleaguered products being reintroduced while Airbus’ consistent excellence is less exciting. I totally agree on the Chinese program, it would be fair to say China is less showy than the west but I did expect to see something on the long awaited nation mover. Absolutely delighted for Embraer, as good as A220 is E2 deserved much more attention than it got so it’s good to see it finally being recognised for how remarkable it is.
I agree the commentary is skewed in favor of Boeing. I think Airbus has a better line of products and continues to dominate the aircraft market.
Agree with Embraer, and glad for it. And yes, perception is skewed, but fanboys…
Well, he's American, so I wouldn't expect him to support Airbus in any capacity lol
I banned 777 10 abreast years ago. If A350 goes this way, they too will be banned. An A320 or 737 seat is more comfortable. If the cost of premium economy wasnt 2.5 to 3x economy I would do that but on the London to Australia routes, that's the price of upgrade. As the A350 will be used as long haul, this would be a disgrace and an insult to passengers. Crossed arms and shoulders with snoring, dribbling passengers in the next seat is disgusting.
It's the airlines fault... not Boeing or Airbus.
@@jcasb9843 The manufacturers are pandering to the airlines. In no way shape or form is this even safe, either re things like DVT, extreme close proximity to other peoples breathing, nor if there is an accident and panic to get out.
I love the winners / losers, keep making these videos!
Noted ◡̈
@@cobyexplanes but be more objective and do a better research first.
I think it’s safe to say that this has been Boeing’s Airshow. They have scored such huge deals during the 2022 Farnborough Airshow. To be honest, I was expecting Airbus so also rack up some sizable orders as well, but at least they still got good deals. I’m also pretty happy for Embraer as their E-Jet E2 program is finally getting some good orders. Overall, it’s nice to see healthy competition in the Aviation Industry.
I hate to agree as I would have loved to see Airbus sell some a350s
@@claimedmedia6167 yo I was wondering why boing did so well? .. European transport is the real hype.
Airbus won a huge order from china recently..so Boeing was due
@@kirtwilliams549 Delta is a well known opportunistic buyer that shops cheap, and there's no reason for them not to buy Boeing. Qatar has burnt bridge and won't order Airbus for a considerable time (nor Airbus wants to have any affairs with them). CargoLux is a bit of a surprise, but others are either top-ups or long rumoured.
@Baxter The Goldendoodle - try adding in the 311 aircraft order from China announced a week ago on to the orders at Farnborough and then see who won most.
How heavily discounted were the 737 Max and 787 for Boeing to pick up sales after the horrendous flaws they encountered?
I mean, it has to be a big gamble for the airlines with public confidence in Boeing having hit rock bottom!
I lost a good friend on the Ethiopian 737max . Not going anywhere near em
Lol like Airbus don’t discount or better yet bribe airlines to buy their plane
I think Airbus can not be seen as a „loser“ simply for the reason that Airbus is so much more and Airbus heicopters and Airbus Defence had some huge wins during the air show. Also, I do strongly believe, That boeing although it is recovering will Fall behind Airbus in the next years, as they have to First Balance out all the loss and Bad reputation from the 737max series and therefore will not be abel to participate in crucial Research to more enviromentally friendly flying giving Airbus a head Start.
The elephant in the room is that
a. MAX is not as competitive as 320NEO as a whole, while simply can't undercut A220.
b. 787 has an edge over 330NEO, but demand for widebody is weak at the moment. Not to mention 787's production issues has made 330NEO more attractive in terms of delivery than usual.
c. Freighter is booming, but Airbus is start eating Boeing's lunch. Airbus doesn't have to overtake Boeing to hurt the latter's profitability - they just has to be there, and Boeing can no longer set the price as they wish. Don't get me wrong, 321 and 350 are solid freighters, but it takes time and effort to establish their footholds.
But nevertheless Boeing earned a few big orders, especially for MAX10 and 777XF are significant. This gives them some room to breath.
exactly, airbus have been winning the last couple of years regardless of this airshow
So true. The channel seems to be a sucker for Boeings.
The Max-10 situation is quite precarious though since Boeing has recently threatened to Axe it. This has to do that if it isn't certified before the end of this year, A big Cockpit modification will have to be implemented. This would mean that the Max-10 loses a lot of commonality with other 737's and would mean costly retraining for Airlines.
More than the cockpit, they would have to replace the systems. The 737 is still a 1950s design under the skin. It doesn't have the technology to provide the information needed to inform an EICAS system.
This hole topic should be one extra video worth of content ;)
Because there is so much more to cover than in the video to the airshow.
That's almost moot because 737 pilots required additional retraining and more than 1000 sim hours to operate MAX anyway.
I think air india a350 order is the game changer winner in the Farnborough airshow
air india will liquidate before it can buy 10 of those.
It is not Farnburrow, it is Farnburrah and I should know having sat through the first 4 days worth of displays including watching the A350 and 777X do low level turns and banks over a heavily built up area, plus the F-35 coming in on Tuesday
I was just about to type the same thing. And I can say with authority as I live there!
Nice video bro. As someone from the UK I can tell you Farnborough is actually pronounced as "Farnbra", wierd but that's the English way 😃
Haha I've been getting slandered for all my pronunciations lately - good to know for future reference
Any town in the UK that ends with -_borough_ is pronounced
/-bəɹə/ (…-buh-ruh) or /-bɹə/ (…-bruh).
I appreciate that you gave the easy to understand example of how it should be pronounced (showing how it would be written if phonetically pronounced in most accents in English) rather than just being like "It hurts my soul when Americans butcher Farnborough" so many others do.
@@ericburton5163 Eric there is an apocryphal tale about an American at a London station asking where he can catch the train to Loogy baroogy (Loughborough) 😊
Great all in one video going over everything. So much better than DJ’s Aviation who just made a bunch of boring short videos over the course of the show
It's pronounced "farn-bruh"
You missed the biggest loser of the bunch: Russian Aviation. It actually makes the Chinese junk, look good!!
Porter Airlines was founded in 2006. Hardly an "upstart".
Well, CSeries delays and Bishop expansion cancellation have been holding them back. They are now resuming their long due growth with E2 and new Pearson hub.
@David Ferguson They are an upstart considering that they have never operated Turbo Jets/Fans.
@@Adscam Which is like saying American Airlines is an upstart because it was the first US airline to order the A321XLR.
777X seems like a winner as well. Can’t wait to see airlines like Cargolux with the freighter variant
777X seemed like a mix bag. We don't know how big that Cargolux order is, but they're using it to replace their 747-400s. They only have 15 of those so assuming they do a one for one replacement, that would mean 17 total orders (2 went to ANA as well). That's not bad but the plane hasn't had a real blockbuster deal yet, and considering the market for air cargo is red hot right now this weekend seemed like a great opportunity for one
@@cobyexplanes Cargolux is not a bad win though. While Qatar, ANA, Lufthansa and Ethiopian are big orders, most of them either have 777F, 777X pax, or both, so naturally they'd pick 777XF. On the other hand, Silk Way, CMA CGA turned their backs against 777XF, while AF and Etihad seem to pass 777X altogether.
Cargolux is a good endorsement as they didn't have 777F and obviously 350s, but end up picked 777XF. Boeing would be happy to stop A350s from carrying Cargolux callsigns. We'd see how well A&B win hearts and minds of other new customers.
But pax I'm more doubtful. A weak widebody market together with a prospect of 10-abreast 35K aren't good news for 779.
@@steinwaldmadchen CMA CGM did pick up two current 777F's though, already delivered as of this month
@@steinwaldmadchen I wouldn't be that doubtful about pax 779. Back in the 90's the 777 only had a couple hundred orders and look what it turned into. Just give it time and be patient, the program will turn out a lot differently than people think.
@@JackJohnson3119 Then you should. 777 is a very capable aircraft, just that it's not the most lightweight and optimised one. When there's a "just right" aircraft 777 simply can't compete.
772 sales dried up when 333 became more capable.
35K at 10 abreast flies further and slightly faster than 779, while burning 10% less per trip and being 35t lighter. What advantages does 779 have other than slightly more capacity? Even at 9 abreast it basically slashs 778.
Even before the 10-abreast thing, some of the earliest 77W operators has already opted for 350 instead. How many replacement market can 777X realistically take?
Freighter is where 777X still has an edge, but it lost the monopoly 777F enjoyed anyway. CMA CGA, Air France and Etihad didn't choose 777XF as their 777F replacement.
2:50 Interesting that you called Embraer a winner here. I had them penciled in as a "loser" this year, especially the E2.
How come?
Considering that order will break the Air Canada Monopoly on premium domestic flights, that's not a Loss, once people see what Porter can do with the E2, it'll start selling like hot cakes (especially the E170 and E175-E2, the CRJs are coming up on retirement.)
@@Dexter037S4 Porter is not a "blue chip" carrier yet.
Think about Delta for 330NEO, or Swiss for CSeries. They are established carriers that have traced recrods of profitability, and probably would remain operation for years. Yet they put their faith on an unproven program, order the aircraft with a considerable numbers, operate for a considerable period of time, and keep a healthy after market. They may also participate in used market, which is welcomed by lessors, smaller carriers and freighter conversion vendors. These give confidence and practical benefits to other potential buyers. airBaltic or even AirAsiaX, despite their massive orders, didn't carry as much as weight as the blue chips.
In fact, E2 and 338 (Hawaiian) already lose a few sales battles, partly because the potential customers don't want to owe an orphad.
A220 has more than enough big names on board together with a large enough order books, so it will sell no matter what happens on Embraer side. E2 on the other hand still need to catch up.
The biggest issue for E175-E2 is that it is out of scope clause in North America, meaning the largest customers for E170 can't order it. Meanwhile in Europe or elsewhere, they don't usually take E175-E2 because of its inferior fuel economy (either E190/E195-E2 or A220). Unfortunately this aircraft is overweight.
I’m sure all the Boeing lovers are looking forward to the next video made by you.
This has become my favorite aviation channel. Keep it up Coby!
Thanks Steven ◡̈
This video is so surprisingly skewed in favour of Boeing, it downplayed so many of the horrible possibilities they are looking at. The Delta deal for example was achieved at a massive fucking discount to save Boeing, and with all the systemic quality issues profligate at Boeing, we will be looking forward to more Delta airline appearances in future Air Crash Investigations episodes.
Avg europoor
What about the 777X? That's such a gorgeous aircraft, and I was looking forward to flying on it one day. I never hear anything about it anymore
Englishman here: Weird fact, we pronounce Farnborough the same as Edinburgh (in fact Farnbrugh!). So you are pronouncing it right according to spelling. How very silly on our part.
Excellent content, beautifully produced and very informative. But, being an old pedant, every time I heard Farnborough mispronounced, it did jar slightly! Farnborough is commonly pronounced with either two syllables or three (Farn-bruh and Farn-buh-ruh) with the final vowel being closer to what linguists call a schwa (an unstressed vowel). ua-cam.com/video/kjVp_xr0WR0/v-deo.html (and certainly not Farn-buh- ROE!) ... but once again, thanks for a great show report 🙂
the a330 neo is my favourite plane by looks
I wouldn't say 10-abreast 350 is a bad news for either Airbus or the airlines, though. Currently 359 has but slightly fewer seats than similar sized 78J, hence having poorer seat cost. 35K on the other hand both burns and carries significantly less than 779, so neither can easily undercut each other.
With 10-abreast however 359 can match or exceed 78J in terms of seat count, while closing the capacity gap with 779. In both cases 350 would not only have advantage in range, but also in cost. That would be welcomed by some potential 350 users and Airbus in sales campaign.
Do note that 350 uses 1.5" armrests instead of standard 2" from day 1. Airbus can therefore widen the cabin by just ~4" to claim 10-abreast at 17", despite current A350 is 10" narrower than 77W in terms of cabin. It still means the seats would be more cramped than the 77W though.
I am a skinny guy and the worst aspect of Cathay Pacific’s A350 was the 9 abreast seating in Economy. My two normal size travellers were stealing my armrest space. Sometimes our shoulders could touch. Yikes, and this was pre-covid.
It is bad news for the passengers
Comac wants to open up the European market, now you know what it's doing about the almost 300 A320 orders
Why say "Farn burrow" Have you never heard it pronounced in english?
Well played, Boeing. Now, it's Airbus time. Thanks, Coby.
Airbus needs widebody orders, but in terms of narrowbodies, they need to actually build more planes before they can expect to get more orders, that wait line is ridiculously long
Airbus signed almost 300 planes in the very recent China order, its a while before its Boeings time
This video is incredibly biased towards Boeing. According to your video, 9 orders was a win for the 787 and Boeing while Airbus apparently "lost" after securing over one hundred orders for A320 family aircraft including the brand new A321neoXLR. Of course Boeing capitalized on the airshow and secured hundreds of orders for the Max but saying the A350 "lost" because of a few inches of cabin width is simply untrue. To add to this, you can't base Airbus' success on rumors and how they eventually didn't come to fruition. For example, people believed the 777X would sell a lot at the airshow but due to the recent postponing of the 777X, they didn't receive as many orders as was hoped but you would never mention that in your video. It would be more accurate to say Boeing did better than Airbus while Airbus, although lacking in it's ability to capitalize on the airshow, still did well under the circumstances such as recovering from the pandemic etc. But apparently it's completely fine to praise Boeing because you are an American talking to Americans.
It’s all about the context my friend, not about order size
@@cobyexplanes I get that 9 787 orders are a big deal due to the fact that the program has stagnated over the past year but equally you said that the fact that Airbus has added 1 extra seat in width to the A350 while also promising to increase cabin width, is just a outright loss for the aircraft. I think you can agree that this is nothing to do with order size while also being completely inaccurate. Also, to simply cast aside the successes of the A320 family is just unfair. It also poorly represents how well Airbus has marketed the aircraft for the post pandemic industry where the new emphasis is on point-to-point flying. Also, marketing the Max post-pandemic is something that Boeing has been worse at doing than Airbus due to the fact that the Max order books are about 25% less than that of the A320 family but again, you don't mention that, in fact according to you the Max was a massive success simply because of the size of it's orders as opposed to "context". You also have to be able to see that your praising of Boeing and criticizing of Airbus is night and day.
@@kenka25101 … Agree 100%.. Appears to come across as being a Boeing fan boy !!
Massive let down? 4 seats together makes for better family options for sitting together..
Independent video would make for better viewing..
Would you like some cheese with that whine?🙄
@@kenka25101 or should we call you a waaambulance?
Re: A350 XWB - nobody is _forcing_ airlines to adopt 10 abreast seating in the economy. Heck, they don't even have to _have_ economy section, if they recon that's how they will earn more. This has nothing to do with the aircraft, and everything to do with airline business model.
That is the thing, passengers do not buy airplanes, airlines do.
@@se-kmg355 Well, passengers buy tickets...
@@bazoo513 But they still do not buy the airplane....
If this is supposed to be "winners and Losers at Farnborough", perhaps it would have been good to actually have some Farnborough footage? Otherwise, this is just a smoke screen for selling something...
Looks like, this video was sponsored by Boeing. US state funded airline, buys a lot of planes from US state funded air manufacturer, WIN!?!?
If you are going to make a video about somewhere, at least say the name correctly. You can’t make a video about something that you can’t even say correctly. Do your research next time. It’s pronounced farnbruh, not farnborrow
You didn't mentioned the fact that Boeing is planning to cancel 737 Max 10 if congress doesn't give them extension for a law which mandidated to update all the aircraft warning systems. Because if certification doesn't happen this year, then Boeing will have to completely redesign the cockpit of 737 Max 10.
And this if correctly done can make all EASA and CAAC orders impossible, because they lose common type rating. That's basically lost case, with Max10. That's mean u need new pilots to fly it.
@@mateuszzimon8216 exactly!
Nah they aren't planning to. The CEO just said it is "possibly" an option, but unlikely it will happen. So yeah it's not getting canceled
@@JackJohnson3119 you can't say that for definite
you keep pronouncing Farnborough wrong its pronounced farnbru
source im English and live 10 mins away
biggest loser in this show is the atmosphere
Pronounced "Farn-bruh". Sorry, I'm British and it's sticks in my throat 😂😂
I do have to say that you seem to be very centred towards us aircraft manufacturers… namely Boeing , not singing praises for Airbus etc …
I have nothing to correct you on!! Coby your segments flow nicely...great visuals and I discover helpful facts. Your personality of "going positive" is refreshing considering the choices. I look forward to your 797 update! Thank you for your many hours putting these together for us!
Thanks!!
That external fan project was a thing back in the 80s clearly it did not happen strange they are revisiting it now maybe new technology and all that.
If I recalls correctly it didn’t make a lot of progress because the open rotor design was super loud and couldn’t meet regulatory noise standards. But the fuel saving potential is huge
Needs to pronounce Farnborough properly.
Otherwise awesome video.
I very much like you to do video on air show please !!! All your videos are great !!!
But I am sure that I am not the only person watching you from outside the US !! So when you tell a measurement, please also tell or write the equivalent in the metric system. The whole part on the A350 width is a lot less interesting if you have no idea how much you are talking. Thanks.
1 inch is 2.5 cm, 1 foot is .3 meters
@@cobyexplanes thanks but it was more a suggestion for futur video. Please.
But otherwise, I love what you are doing ! Thanks a lot
@@Bb13190 I usually try to include metric as well but I was on a tight timeline for this video so I forgot to include em - sorry!
@@cobyexplanes no problem, thanks for the info and the good work !
I have never heard of Farnbro. Please be respectful and learn how to pronounce the event place name, thank you.
I love how in this channel, Airbus is always wrong, and Boeing is always right..
👍👍
…and how boeing is selling uncertified airplanes while airbus is doing it in a correct way from the beginning
he's american, what do you expect
Farmbro?? Where is that? Do you mean Farnborough, 'Farn-burra'. Farmbro lmao 🤣 😂
Lol, what a joke of a video, Boeing 777x is the biggest loser probably on this show because nobody wants it, they were talks of taking the 777x off production due to issues with supply chain and other issues.
Multiple customers ordered the 777x during the show
American praises Boeing ( surprise surprise ) and can’t pronounce Farnborough properly ( no surprise).
A comment about your channel, in general. You seem to know as much about the airline industry and the aircraft manufacturer industry as Vladimir Putin knows about the infield fly rule. Reading trade publications like AW&ST does not qualify you as a credible industry analyst. What are your qualifications as an industry analyst?
Vladimir Putin knows baseball?
R u sure NordVPN is your only sponsor? 😉
3-4-3 on the 350? Well that would definitely make a great reverse card on the airline industry
I mean, what
@tahnalos Here's the catch - A350 uses 1.5" armrests as opposed to 2" anywhere else. So in theory Airbus can claim the same 17" 10 abreast as 77W, with a 6.5" narrower cabin.
Currently 350 has a 10" narrower fuselage, and 4" widening should be low hanging fruit - Boeing did the same on 777X as well. Otherwise they may also narrow the aisles by a bit?
While for airlines they can lower CASM by 10% for almost nothing, for Airbus that also means they can almost match 779 capacity without a more expensive stretch. Unfortunately there's no reason why both parties wouldn't proceed. They don't really care about Y pax comforts.
@@ironic8340 what the guy on the bottom explain
It is pronounced Farn-bruh
The summary is: boeign wins, airbus is the loser. A bit biased opinion 😊
Always love the Farnburrow Airshow 😁
This video is sponsored by: BOEING.....😄😄😄😄😄😄😄
This format is very interesting and I like it!
When will Boeing pay for the coup to Embraer?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
I cringed so much while watching so many airlines order so many unreiable Boeings that I am sure they will regret in the near future.
The 10-abreast comparison A350 vs 777 is a bit dodgy since the 777 fuselage is circular, while the A350 fuselage is not. So the Airbus idea of carving out extra interior diameter by resculpting the inner wall panels makes sense. It will offer an 'okay' (admittedly not great) 10 abreast experience on mid-haul routes with UNBEATABLE per seat economies.
my guy said "farnbro" it's pronounced "farn-bruh"
BOEING MCAS EQUATES TRASH !
Biased video, defining "winners" and "losers" on mostly arbitrary conditions. I don't think the two categories are fair in the first place. As long as we see competition and progress it's all good. No one actually "loses".
It’s “Farn-Bruh” … and yes, please keep making these!
It's "Farn-Buruh". I know, I live there.
@@walterxplinge3867 either way, it’s not the way HE’S saying it 😅
Porter gave up on the a220 because Toronto city centre airport needed to be expanded but the city struck it down and I guess in the time since airbus bought the program they’ve had a change of heart.
@tahnalos Regarding the political thing, I won't be surprised if E2 isn't a big middle finger to those who turned down Bishop expansion. CSeries isn't not only slightly better on field performance, but also domestic built, so they can have the "support local economy" narrative than let's say, E-jet or ATR. Once this prospect is gone Porter can get whatever aircraft that make sense, and E2 are quite similar in terms of economy.
@tahnalos I see. I'm not a Canadian so I'm not 100% sure.
But I think the original CSeries order was sort of a bundled deal to an extension of Bishop's runway and facilities, together with a bridge or sth like that? That sounds very political even for an outsider like me.
Porter’s deal for the C-Series expired. They would have ended up at the back of the list for deliveries and prices would be at current prices. Embraer having the available delivery schedule and low sales I’m sure lead to a hell of a deal for Porter. The schedule was originally to receive 2 planes per month until the 30 were delivered. Now with the Transport Canada certification delays and additional orders they could be looking at close to 3 planes a month.
I guess Porter being a jet operator is a new start up but the company has been operating for 16years now so not really a start up. Looking forward to what I can expect and figure will be a JetBlue style service in Canada
I flown on a 3-4-3 economy class 777-300ER with EVA Air once, definitely not recommended because it was too tight. Same with 3-4-3 on a 747-400. Airlines should have look at JAL where they do 2-4-2 economy and it was so much better for passenger comfort.
the XWB being 6 inches wider in the body, across 9 seats, does not sound like it goes a long way in improving comfort. that's less than 1 inches more per seat, assuming the aisles are kept the same width. Does it really make it that much better?
Nice video but please note the place is pronounced Farnburuh not Farnborrow
Bro 737 max is a pc of shit ....a320 family any time
It's a pleasure to watch and listen to your videos; such clear, concise narration. Keep up the good work!
Thanks!
Still not taking the time to learn how to pronounce British place names