There's a number of reasons that some individuals could keep preferring cds and cd players to streaming devices, regardless of the cheaper cost of latter scenario: 1) the likelihood of much, much higher rate of proportional royalties for artists on sales of physical media of music vs streams. Given the current royalties context for musicians from the major streaming services, for many who care about such matters this may be the most compelling reason. Streaming companies basically rip off all but the very biggest musicians out there. 2) owning media rather than renting it and being subject to uncertainty of certain titles' availability long-term in streaming marketplace. 3) similar to above, but specifically, knowing what mastering one has of a title and not being subject to large streaming companies' questionable provision of mastering info or retention of particular masterings available for listeners. 4) some people prefer tactile quality of owning, handling physical media. 5) to some listeners' ears, disc/transport music source sounds superior to streamed music of same bit resolution. 6) never having to rely upon stability of internet connection. 7) at least a couple of other reasons I don't recall at the moment but do recall being relevant to certain listeners.
Some of the biggest artists made ± 1 dollar on a sold cd vs millions of streams/views and it probably will end up around the same? The music industry is crooked
8) The likelihood that the remaster available on streaming services is horribly compressed compared to the older CD version already in your collection.
So, if your expensive drive from Denon/Marantz is no longer available, that gives you the perfect excuse to introduce a lower-cost transport built around a lower-cost drive! Problem solved!
Personally I quit streaming a few years ago for a number of reasons. They keep making new streamers and most have so many things attached that it makes me not want them lol I prefer cd's honestly. Put them in and play through my dac of choice into my system. I have over 1200 now and keep adding more almost monthly. I have read and heard that cd's are gaining popularity again especially in europe. And to others comments they are correct artists are starting to pull away from streaming services since the pay is not what it should be for them. I also have many places where I am at to search through for used and new. My biggest request is a multiple disc transport. I ise cd players now as transports and like loading 6 cd's and having 3 to 4 hours of music. Good video as usual Paul.
I also have quit streaming a long time ago. I’ve got 10K of CDs (all uncompressed recordings) and it simply doesn’t make sense to stream - non of my favourite musicians are big stars, and they only gets pennies from streaming services. When I buy their CDs or LPs they earn money, and that is what makes them want to record more music; seeing a beautiful physical product that their fans cherish. I am with John Darko when he says streaming is way too cheap to keep the music coming. Thank goodness that there are still CDs getting recorded, that is what keeps the music coming.
As a small business owner I really appreciated the unvarnished truth in this video. I, too, have wanted a less expensive SACD player from you because I love PS Audio. I’d also like to be 10 years younger. Good for you!
I simply don’t have €9000 to buy a PSaudio Perfect Wave transport, so I use a Sony UBP-X800 M2 Blu-Ray player with a Chinese HDMI to I2S converter to connect the player to my PSaudio Stellar Strata mk2. Works wonderful 😊 I would be interested in a PSaudio Stellar CD transport though… Just an other thought: Paul, couldn’t you use a cheap blu-ray drive for a Stellar SACD transport?
Like these videos. I'm in the dark as to what they mean by "transport." Are they talking about the plastic tray you put the CD on before it goes into the CD player? Are they talking about the laser that "reads" the CD? Help me out.
Your explanation makes total sense. Has to be economically viable to begin with. I have the Marantz SACD30n and absolutely LOVE it ! No I2S but I am willing to live with that. It is has HEOS for streaming. Can be had for $2K sometimes ! Not sure how much better I need.... :)
My favorite tracks get removed from streaming services all the time, granted they are produced by small publisher, but they dont seem to know what they want so they remove the tracks for a while then add it back. Hence, I rather have CDs instead.
I was already writing this when you brought up a point at the end: build an affordable Redbook CD player, better yet a transport. Make it with I2S, maybe to the PS Audio configuration.😂 Consider that top loaders are in vogue. I myself went full circle. I kept improving my DAC for my streamer, then per chance used a transport with it and was amazed. First my old Rotel RCD-855, then a Cal Delta, both of which need a tune up. Then the other day, someone gave me an old Magnavox CDB 650. You may remember it.😁I am finding that the transport mechanism is SO important. CDM 2/10 proved better than CDM 4/19. Makes me want to find a CDM 1. So, be sure and use a nice mechanism, a swing arm if you can source them. Look at what they are doing overseas....
Have a look at the CD transport made by Pro-Ject Audio (CD Box RS2 T). This uses a CD-Pro8 transport mechanism made by SUOS HiFi. The design expertise can be traced back to Philips.
Magnavox is Philips in USA. I have a 1990s Philips carousel I got refurbed at a Philips store. (They briefly had stores! Like Bose in the mall or now, Apple.) Nothing special but sounds great. Still working great. Only a dumb sprayed on rubber coating in the tray is deteriorating slightly. Does no harm to CDs. No digital out at all. But the chip DAC in it is terrific (not one of the famous earlier ones either - the famous one is probably what is in that CDB 650 - so Phillips engineers keying off that sound). I like it so much, when I saw one at a thrift for $7, and it was clean, I got it. Why not?! Then paid flea bay $25 for the oddball (and terrible UI affordance) remote (which as far as I can tell was new old stock too). Now I use it in a bedroom and as back up or parts to mine.
@mongo2044 The remote controls supplied by Philips used their RC5 communications protocol. This protocol was also used by other manufacturers. So, an RC5 remote with a compatible button set will also work with your Magnavox CD player. The Quad and Meridian system remotes used to work okay. You can also buy Chinese replacement remotes that support RC5. The Logitech Harmony remote used to be a good fallback but that’s now obsolete.
Another important thing: with American wages, trying to do a cheap product, you won’t be competitive with China. You must remain in high end Hi-Fi and focus on excellent marketing like your videos. Thanks Paul
On the topic of price point....first off, I love my PS audio products, cables and DAC. I WISH they would come out with a 500W version of the Stellar P3...aka P5 at a sub $2,000 price point. Is that possible? Who knows, but it's either the too expensive low power P3, or the way too expensive, too big P12, too small or too big for most. I get the headroom but 500W would fit the bill for most. My suggestions are above my pay grade, not upset, please keep up the great work, your dedication to this hobby is unparalleled.
I'm just one guy, but I have a large CD collection and I like owning my music. The market is definitely missing a sub 200$ high quality CD transport. I have a few good DACs. I don't want a player, I want a good digital out, top loading (no tray or slot mechanism to break) solidly built transport with no DAC. I can buy a great sub $200 CD player, but they don't have the top loading feature (using a magnetic ring rather than those 3 clips around the spindle) I want. So a transport would be a bit cheaper to build.
When my Micromega top-loader transport died I bought a cheap JVC FS-SD9 from 2001. It's a little pretty self-opening top loader. The only thing I miss from the Micromega is the dead-silent mechanism, but that's it
Chi Fi is the way to get a lower cost pot lid transport new. Well, it was until the Trump tariff tax on Americans, which just kicked in. But I have never had a tray or slot break. So if you can forget about that lid preference, options become broader. Plus used.
Yup.. at least her persona online seems to be ! Never know.. Could be a MONSTER (ala Gordon Ramsey) behind the scenes but I highly doubt it. The folks there I've dealt with are the most helpful, unpretentious, down to earth people I've ever worked with and it's a joy to support a small USA company building products in the USA, albeit at a $$$ premium but well worth it in my book.
Excellent explanation. But I see return of the vinyl as a spite towards consimersitic approach to music of stremaing. There is no skip or pause. When you put the record you have to listen. Full attention. In digital, that is the disc although with more possibilities like skip and pause but still with and albums, not tracks and with getting up from the seat to change the disc.
ChiFi already makes plenty of these CD transports and those come with i2s as well... sorry no SACD . PS Audio should have a simple CD transport , not overbuild , with i2s and outboard power supply ...so people can invest in letter LPS later on . Priced at 700usd , build it in Asia if you can't build it in Colorado for 700usd .
There‘s no point for a company like PS Audio to try and compete with the prices of those Chinese manufacturers. The niche they exist in is high-end hi-fi, where pricing pressures are less pronounced than in the mid-tier that mentioned Chinese companies go after. Actually the Chinese even go after the performance levels of high-end hi-fi, only at much lower prices than US & EU manufacturers can do. Think Gustard, Holo Audio or Topping for DACs. They haven‘t bothered to come up with SACD players yet, though. Probably the market is considered too small.
@hmsworcester CD transport with i2s and outboard Power Supply for 700usd is build able with profit to be made. PS does build affordable gear and this could be continuation as CD media is making a comeback like Vinyl did in the past . PS Audio would not be last to the game .
@@kdomster9141 Maybe. Yet, if you think that Chinese manufacturers do similar at 600+ $, and with their cost being significantly lower, it could be a rough space for PS Audio.
@hmsworcester Everyone would rather pay 700usd to PS Audio rather than 600usd to ChFi brand . At the same time PS Audio could design small DAC sold for 500usd that would match Transport in small footprint.... than design integrated class D amp for 500usd and call this whole line of product neoSprout line 😉 All of these could be built in Eastern Europe for lower cost than Colorado while keep quality top notch .
The problem with streamers is that you are limited to only the music versions they provide. Song A is the only version you can access where in CD or vinyl the same song is available in different mixes and mastered samples. Your streamer picked one and that's it. You OTOH can BUY the better, in most cases, version and keep it forever. Whereas your streamer can cancel their current offering, change it for another sample, that could be worse, and you have no recourse.
If I was a teen or college student, I would stream for sure. It is a bargain like no other. If you calculate average inflation and run the numbers, streaming wins. The quest and cost will be all about speakers, amp, and streaming device. I just plug an iOS device into a DAC and, Apple Music is fantastic. Saves the cost of an external streamer. More money to the DAC. I use Airplay (v1 lossless) for casual listening (office), which is just fine too. Airplay 2 for super casual (car fixing and, kitchen stove and toilet cleaning music) and parties/holidays is also just fine. But, I also like the sound of CDs too. So I have and buy them used for 50 cents or $1. They are, indeed, worthless now. Part of it is revenge by me on all the greed in the recording industry that prevented me from hearing so much great music as a poor high school and college student and then poor new employee in high rent city and then as poor home owner. Buy a CD for $18+ with no way to hear it first? Insanity! I preferred to EAT and save for retirement. People say: Any CD player is fine. Eh, until you hear a really good one. I found a 13 year old Oppo at a thrift store (with a remote and manual!) and, oh, I get it now. Spend more often equals a really great CD player. But, still, the 1990s and 2010s players I have (used or refurbs), gets you about 97% of the way there! The only risk with streaming music is corporate greed. Again. It could come in like a Netflix price increase storm and suddenly, the math does not work. But this no problem because, when that happens, the already flooded market for used CDs will be even bigger as widows/widowers/family of dead boomers and gen-X with CD collections, donate or sell them all for nothing. 1-30 year olds are best just streaming. For now. If it shoots up to crazy costs, you can build a great collection for nothing in your 30s, 40s, 50s. Maybe even for free, as often happens now when gen-X parents or grandparents give a teen or college kid their entire CD collection. If PS Audio made a $1000 CD player (so with a DAC or, usable also without), I'd buy it! But I am old… So the demographic would be 50-65+ AND 18-35. Weird for sure.
The latest word on the street is that the CD is making a comeback. I am told (and strongly believe) that with the CD, you own the copy of the music. With a stream or download, you don't own the copy of the music.
When considering a streamer, the music titles I ask for at my local dealer to demo. Are not available on streaming. I would rather have a music server, at least with that I have a choice with my music library. But a CD player fits the bill, since a number of the titles I'm looking for are available(or I own) in that format.
A small business? Pretty straight forward in pricing? PS Audio is a thriving business success, with credit going to our host. But is approximately $37,000,000.00 (it might be much higher) in revenue a small business? PS Audio is not a mom & pop shoe store. Our host has shown us videos of his home, property acreage, talked about his cars, his home theater. He has a music studio, with enough equipment that costs more than most people's homes. That is on top of his thriving stereo equipment business. Again, our host deserves full credit for his success. He is living the American dream. But his act, as if he is just a little fish, is absurd. He wants to be seen as a regular guy -- your friendly next door neighbor, to make you feel like part of the family. All of that increases sales. Our host is wealthy. All the best to him. But know that he is at the high end of a 1%'er. Is all of that the result of a small business? He makes great products, and there is nothing wrong with him promoting his products. It is his "regular guy" act that is disingenuous -- as if he is running a taco stand. The Mister Rogers act is over the top.
Just like with video streaming, I don't think it will be long and we'll start seeing different labels being on different streaming platforms. You'll need to pay multiple services to get most of the content.
If they ever are able to stream DSD losslessly and also bother to convert most of the music available to said format, then I could see finally ditching my cd's and possibly even vinyl, but that's a pipe dream. (I always wondered if that was a reference to marijuana)
I have them all. But mainly CDs. Including rips to home server. More by historical and financial accident. But I still stream. Which can be paid for for best quality or, there are ad supported options and even free options via local library web site. I use it to explore music and I find more terrific stuff that way. The ones I like, I buy a CD (if they are still selling it). The ability to add a song to a playlist is also terrific.
if you mean by "transport" as the mechanism that the disk is put in and spins the disk and has the laser head that is a normal every day optical drive you have one in your pc, laptop and even bluray player. bluray disks have more data than sacd so reading the data from the media isnt a problem. so it would be up to the electronics to decode the data and make the sound. it may be possible that standard computer drives are too slow to read the disk and play it properly and you need to spin the disk to where it would be vibrated to pieces or it would be shot out of the drive and thrown across the room like a frisbee so you could just rip the disk and save the data to an internal ssd. i am not sure if dennon and meranz is still around or if it is just their names that are still around so you should be safe reverse engineering the drive and if you are ok with human rights violations and sweat shops you could have china produce the mechs for you. of course your company caters to the "audiophile" so a cheap unit may not look good to your brand. if you are ok with theft of service and theft of labor you could rig the utility meters to get free electric and do a walmart and work the employees off the clock "as soon as you punch out we need you to take out the garbage" if theft of service and labor is not your thing then you could work with your local power company to shut down when there is severe weather like heatwave and cold snap to save on your electric bill.
The Marantz SACD 10 at $12,000 is using the Marantz SACDM-3 transport mechanism. Wonder which ones Paul says they bought up. SACDM-2? 🤷🏻♂️ The PS Audio Perfect Wave SACD transport at $7000 seems inexpensive in comparison. Gotta wonder what Marantz is doing that is so much better. 72 lbs versus 22 lbs is start.
And the Marantz would be considered a bargain when compared to something like the CH Precision D1.5 CD/SACD player at $46,000 (as tested by Stereophile magazine in 2022).
Own it Out Right What’s a Little Snap Crackle & Pop in The Morning Speaking of Crackle The First Time I Had Real Grape Nuts Is When Floyd Came By And Brought Over 4 12”x 12” Very Hard Kind Of Cookies Floyd My Amish Friend Said You Break Them Up into Little Pieces into Your Bowl and Pour Milk Over Them or Grape Nuts I Need To Archive All My Vinyl Records Good Night Nothing Here But Us Chickens 🐓 🐓 🐓 🐓
If only this was easy for non engineering types to do. I found it too frustrating and SACDs too expensive and not really giving all that much more from a CD. This is another reason why Sony stopped making SACDs now. Don't get me wrong, SACD should be what all CDs and CD players should have been for the past 20 years. But, Sony greed, again, killed a format.
@mongo2044 It's interesting. I find SACD's to sound much more analog. Ripping SACD's really isn't that much of a hassle - but I understand your point. I also convert, with software, redbook CD rips to DSD128 files then add the converted DSD files to my music library. I find that even converted PCM to DSD files sound a bit more analog on my DAC. I have done some blind A/B testing, with friends, and they agree the converted PCM to DSD version of the songs sound more natural. Oh well...everything in this world can be a rabbit hole.
R&D is paid for in the prices too. Or else they've never made a dime. Engineers obviously don't work for free. So the cumulative costs are subtracted from cumulative revenues and the company has made money or they haven't. The only alternative is that PSAudio does zero R&D or is it free?? LOL
Yes. It was a strange comment he made. Obviously, R&D is just CODB so, it is in the cost of the device, along with paying for the lights, salaries, etc. Maybe he was thinking in comparison to much larger companies that run R&D separate. Maybe bigger Yamaha, Sony, etc. do this. Even small companies do R&D. But it is the owner and some staff messing around with new ideas. A small architecture firm with 5 or so on staff, is doing R&D all the time. It is called sketching and research. If you create or make things or services, you are doing R&D to some level.
How about less expensive speakers, still cant figure out how Paul came up with his prices? Great guy but not much of a Marketing Guru. I bet 10 years from now you will have zero market share.
Trump made Bibi seethe, he was blindsided thinking he was going to be gifted Gaza at this press conference instead Trump proposed an international economic zone.
Bluray isn’t being killed off just blank discs. The boutique market for 4k discs is only growing. You haven’t seen a CD on Best Buy store shelves for 15 years yet they keep putting out lavish music box sets and releases.
Paul why does all of your gear look like medical equipment? Will there ever be an effort to simply make your equipment look better? I mean you get in here and pontificate all day long about how superior you are to everyone else I'm just wondering why all your stuff all presents itself with politically-correct styling. Look to 90s Nakamichi if you need a lesson on how to design elegant, sophisticated looking gear. It's not just you, every single 'high end' manufacturer's gear just looks terrible. Physical appearance matters, and high-end manufacturers have terrible aesthetic tastes.
I love PS Audio!!!!!! And it's community. Best bunch of audio nuts on the planet! I appreciate you Paul and your team!!! Best of the best!!!!!!
Congratulations on keeping the small business alive that long. We just had our 20 year anniversary for our business and it’s been quite the journey.
Paul I appreciate your honesty some times people don’t understand the behind the scenes issues
“Labor of love.” Well said. I admire you and your company.
There's a number of reasons that some individuals could keep preferring cds and cd players to streaming devices, regardless of the cheaper cost of latter scenario:
1) the likelihood of much, much higher rate of proportional royalties for artists on sales of physical media of music vs streams. Given the current royalties context for musicians from the major streaming services, for many who care about such matters this may be the most compelling reason. Streaming companies basically rip off all but the very biggest musicians out there.
2) owning media rather than renting it and being subject to uncertainty of certain titles' availability long-term in streaming marketplace.
3) similar to above, but specifically, knowing what mastering one has of a title and not being subject to large streaming companies' questionable provision of mastering info or retention of particular masterings available for listeners.
4) some people prefer tactile quality of owning, handling physical media.
5) to some listeners' ears, disc/transport music source sounds superior to streamed music of same bit resolution.
6) never having to rely upon stability of internet connection.
7) at least a couple of other reasons I don't recall at the moment but do recall being relevant to certain listeners.
Excellent take! 👏
All good reasons, but 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 top my list. Long live CDs and SACDs.
Some of the biggest artists made ± 1 dollar on a sold cd vs millions of streams/views and it probably will end up around the same? The music industry is crooked
8) The likelihood that the remaster available on streaming services is horribly compressed compared to the older CD version already in your collection.
Yep. #6 Also the cost of high speed internet service.
So, if your expensive drive from Denon/Marantz is no longer available, that gives you the perfect excuse to introduce a lower-cost transport built around a lower-cost drive! Problem solved!
Personally I quit streaming a few years ago for a number of reasons.
They keep making new streamers and most have so many things attached that it makes me not want them lol
I prefer cd's honestly. Put them in and play through my dac of choice into my system.
I have over 1200 now and keep adding more almost monthly.
I have read and heard that cd's are gaining popularity again especially in europe.
And to others comments they are correct artists are starting to pull away from streaming services since the pay is not what it should be for them.
I also have many places where I am at to search through for used and new.
My biggest request is a multiple disc transport. I ise cd players now as transports and like loading 6 cd's and having 3 to 4 hours of music.
Good video as usual Paul.
I also prefer physical medium. DSD disc and CD just sounds better than my digital copies. Guess I am just old. :)
I have a special edition Marantz 5 disc player from 20 years ago. Love it.
I also have quit streaming a long time ago. I’ve got 10K of CDs (all uncompressed recordings) and it simply doesn’t make sense to stream - non of my favourite musicians are big stars, and they only gets pennies from streaming services. When I buy their CDs or LPs they earn money, and that is what makes them want to record more music; seeing a beautiful physical product that their fans cherish. I am with John Darko when he says streaming is way too cheap to keep the music coming. Thank goodness that there are still CDs getting recorded, that is what keeps the music coming.
I love PS Audio......... CD still spinning... Great Idea. Music never die Paul.
As a small business owner I really appreciated the unvarnished truth in this video. I, too, have wanted a less expensive SACD player from you because I love PS Audio. I’d also like to be 10 years younger.
Good for you!
You're a gentleman. Appreciate the honesty 👍🏼
Yes a CD only player would be good. We love our discs. Put me down for future model.
Existing CD collections and purchase of used discs at estate sales are good reasons for players. i will Never pay for streaming.
Paul,
Keep up the good work! DSD is alive and well. 😁
I simply don’t have €9000 to buy a PSaudio Perfect Wave transport, so I use a Sony UBP-X800 M2 Blu-Ray player with a Chinese HDMI to I2S converter to connect the player to my PSaudio Stellar Strata mk2. Works wonderful 😊
I would be interested in a PSaudio Stellar CD transport though…
Just an other thought: Paul, couldn’t you use a cheap blu-ray drive for a Stellar SACD transport?
Like these videos. I'm in the dark as to what they mean by "transport." Are they talking about the plastic tray you put the CD on before it goes into the CD player? Are they talking about the laser that "reads" the CD? Help me out.
Transport just means the component used to play the CD, then it sends the signal to a DAC.. I use a DVD player as a transport with an external DAC
Your explanation makes total sense. Has to be economically viable to begin with. I have the Marantz SACD30n and absolutely LOVE it ! No I2S but I am willing to live with that. It is has HEOS for streaming. Can be had for $2K sometimes ! Not sure how much better I need.... :)
Thanks Paul.
My favorite tracks get removed from streaming services all the time, granted they are produced by small publisher, but they dont seem to know what they want so they remove the tracks for a while then add it back. Hence, I rather have CDs instead.
God save your labour of love!
I was already writing this when you brought up a point at the end: build an affordable Redbook CD player, better yet a transport. Make it with I2S, maybe to the PS Audio configuration.😂 Consider that top loaders are in vogue.
I myself went full circle. I kept improving my DAC for my streamer, then per chance used a transport with it and was amazed. First my old Rotel RCD-855, then a Cal Delta, both of which need a tune up. Then the other day, someone gave me an old Magnavox CDB 650. You may remember it.😁I am finding that the transport mechanism is SO important. CDM 2/10 proved better than CDM 4/19. Makes me want to find a CDM 1. So, be sure and use a nice mechanism, a swing arm if you can source them. Look at what they are doing overseas....
Have a look at the CD transport made by Pro-Ject Audio (CD Box RS2 T). This uses a CD-Pro8 transport mechanism made by SUOS HiFi. The design expertise can be traced back to Philips.
Magnavox is Philips in USA. I have a 1990s Philips carousel I got refurbed at a Philips store. (They briefly had stores! Like Bose in the mall or now, Apple.) Nothing special but sounds great. Still working great. Only a dumb sprayed on rubber coating in the tray is deteriorating slightly. Does no harm to CDs.
No digital out at all. But the chip DAC in it is terrific (not one of the famous earlier ones either - the famous one is probably what is in that CDB 650 - so Phillips engineers keying off that sound).
I like it so much, when I saw one at a thrift for $7, and it was clean, I got it. Why not?! Then paid flea bay $25 for the oddball (and terrible UI affordance) remote (which as far as I can tell was new old stock too). Now I use it in a bedroom and as back up or parts to mine.
@mongo2044 The remote controls supplied by Philips used their RC5 communications protocol. This protocol was also used by other manufacturers. So, an RC5 remote with a compatible button set will also work with your Magnavox CD player. The Quad and Meridian system remotes used to work okay. You can also buy Chinese replacement remotes that support RC5. The Logitech Harmony remote used to be a good fallback but that’s now obsolete.
Another important thing: with American wages, trying to do a cheap product, you won’t be competitive with China. You must remain in high end Hi-Fi and focus on excellent marketing like your videos. Thanks Paul
California was part of Mexico at one time hence lots of Spanish names and influences including architecture, cuisine etc..
Just like Colorado!
I still want 'those disks'!
Best inexpensive CD / SACD player and streamer was OPPO 105… used 700.00 plus 600.00 in mods and almost perfect…
Agree. I have the Oppo 205 and 203, both modded. Running the 203 with I2S mod into an R2R DAC. Sounds fantastic IMHO.
By the logic of the question, the company should put the most into making speakers just as the customer puts the most into buying them.
On the topic of price point....first off, I love my PS audio products, cables and DAC. I WISH they would come out with a 500W version of the Stellar P3...aka P5 at a sub $2,000 price point. Is that possible? Who knows, but it's either the too expensive low power P3, or the way too expensive, too big P12, too small or too big for most. I get the headroom but 500W would fit the bill for most.
My suggestions are above my pay grade, not upset, please keep up the great work, your dedication to this hobby is unparalleled.
I'm just one guy, but I have a large CD collection and I like owning my music. The market is definitely missing a sub 200$ high quality CD transport. I have a few good DACs. I don't want a player, I want a good digital out, top loading (no tray or slot mechanism to break) solidly built transport with no DAC. I can buy a great sub $200 CD player, but they don't have the top loading feature (using a magnetic ring rather than those 3 clips around the spindle) I want. So a transport would be a bit cheaper to build.
When my Micromega top-loader transport died I bought a cheap JVC FS-SD9 from 2001. It's a little pretty self-opening top loader. The only thing I miss from the Micromega is the dead-silent mechanism, but that's it
Chi Fi is the way to get a lower cost pot lid transport new. Well, it was until the Trump tariff tax on Americans, which just kicked in. But I have never had a tray or slot break. So if you can forget about that lid preference, options become broader. Plus used.
Whatever is the mark-up has to pay for the bills including engineering. Actually PS audio runs a fair business overall.
what a gentleman
Yup.. at least her persona online seems to be ! Never know.. Could be a MONSTER (ala Gordon Ramsey) behind the scenes but I highly doubt it. The folks there I've dealt with are the most helpful, unpretentious, down to earth people I've ever worked with and it's a joy to support a small USA company building products in the USA, albeit at a $$$ premium but well worth it in my book.
Coto de Caza is in Orange Co., kinda near San Juan Capistrano, but inland. The community didn't exist when you lived in California.
The name has real estate developer written all over it!
Excellent explanation. But I see return of the vinyl as a spite towards consimersitic approach to music of stremaing. There is no skip or pause. When you put the record you have to listen. Full attention. In digital, that is the disc although with more possibilities like skip and pause but still with and albums, not tracks and with getting up from the seat to change the disc.
ChiFi already makes plenty of these CD transports and those come with i2s as well... sorry no SACD .
PS Audio should have a simple CD transport , not overbuild , with i2s and outboard power supply ...so people can invest in letter LPS later on .
Priced at 700usd , build it in Asia if you can't build it in Colorado for 700usd .
There‘s no point for a company like PS Audio to try and compete with the prices of those Chinese manufacturers.
The niche they exist in is high-end hi-fi, where pricing pressures are less pronounced than in the mid-tier that mentioned Chinese companies go after.
Actually the Chinese even go after the performance levels of high-end hi-fi, only at much lower prices than US & EU manufacturers can do. Think Gustard, Holo Audio or Topping for DACs.
They haven‘t bothered to come up with SACD players yet, though. Probably the market is considered too small.
@hmsworcester CD transport with i2s and outboard Power Supply for 700usd is build able with profit to be made.
PS does build affordable gear and this could be continuation as CD media is making a comeback like Vinyl did in the past . PS Audio would not be last to the game .
@@kdomster9141 Maybe. Yet, if you think that Chinese manufacturers do similar at 600+ $, and with their cost being significantly lower, it could be a rough space for PS Audio.
@hmsworcester Everyone would rather pay 700usd to PS Audio rather than 600usd to ChFi brand . At the same time PS Audio could design small DAC sold for 500usd that would match Transport in small footprint.... than design integrated class D amp for 500usd and call this whole line of product neoSprout line 😉
All of these could be built in Eastern Europe for lower cost than Colorado while keep quality top notch .
The problem with streamers is that you are limited to only the music versions they provide. Song A is the only version you can access where in CD or vinyl the same song is available in different mixes and mastered samples. Your streamer picked one and that's it. You OTOH can BUY the better, in most cases, version and keep it forever. Whereas your streamer can cancel their current offering, change it for another sample, that could be worse, and you have no recourse.
A bit of Dunning-Kruger in that question(er)? I, too, run a business roughly the size and age of yours - it ain’t easy! Good on ya’!
If I was a teen or college student, I would stream for sure. It is a bargain like no other. If you calculate average inflation and run the numbers, streaming wins. The quest and cost will be all about speakers, amp, and streaming device. I just plug an iOS device into a DAC and, Apple Music is fantastic. Saves the cost of an external streamer. More money to the DAC. I use Airplay (v1 lossless) for casual listening (office), which is just fine too. Airplay 2 for super casual (car fixing and, kitchen stove and toilet cleaning music) and parties/holidays is also just fine.
But, I also like the sound of CDs too. So I have and buy them used for 50 cents or $1. They are, indeed, worthless now. Part of it is revenge by me on all the greed in the recording industry that prevented me from hearing so much great music as a poor high school and college student and then poor new employee in high rent city and then as poor home owner. Buy a CD for $18+ with no way to hear it first? Insanity! I preferred to EAT and save for retirement.
People say: Any CD player is fine. Eh, until you hear a really good one. I found a 13 year old Oppo at a thrift store (with a remote and manual!) and, oh, I get it now. Spend more often equals a really great CD player. But, still, the 1990s and 2010s players I have (used or refurbs), gets you about 97% of the way there!
The only risk with streaming music is corporate greed. Again. It could come in like a Netflix price increase storm and suddenly, the math does not work. But this no problem because, when that happens, the already flooded market for used CDs will be even bigger as widows/widowers/family of dead boomers and gen-X with CD collections, donate or sell them all for nothing.
1-30 year olds are best just streaming. For now. If it shoots up to crazy costs, you can build a great collection for nothing in your 30s, 40s, 50s. Maybe even for free, as often happens now when gen-X parents or grandparents give a teen or college kid their entire CD collection.
If PS Audio made a $1000 CD player (so with a DAC or, usable also without), I'd buy it! But I am old… So the demographic would be 50-65+ AND 18-35. Weird for sure.
The latest word on the street is that the CD is making a comeback. I am told (and strongly believe) that with the CD, you own the copy of the music. With a stream or download, you don't own the copy of the music.
Those chairs look comfy. Anyone know where they are from?
When considering a streamer, the music titles I ask for at my local dealer to demo. Are not available on streaming. I would rather have a music server, at least with that I have a choice with my music library. But a CD player fits the bill, since a number of the titles I'm looking for are available(or I own) in that format.
So Paul, what will you do when you use up all your Denon/Marantz transports? Stop making your transport?
This seems to be the implication, unless an alternative is found because/if transport and player demand is still there.
A small business? Pretty straight forward in pricing?
PS Audio is a thriving business success, with credit going to our host. But is approximately $37,000,000.00 (it might be much higher) in revenue a small business?
PS Audio is not a mom & pop shoe store.
Our host has shown us videos of his home, property acreage, talked about his cars, his home theater. He has a music studio, with enough equipment that costs more than most people's homes. That is on top of his thriving stereo equipment business.
Again, our host deserves full credit for his success. He is living the American dream. But his act, as if he is just a little fish, is absurd. He wants to be seen as a regular guy -- your friendly next door neighbor, to make you feel like part of the family. All of that increases sales. Our host is wealthy. All the best to him. But know that he is at the high end of a 1%'er. Is all of that the result of a small business?
He makes great products, and there is nothing wrong with him promoting his products. It is his "regular guy" act that is disingenuous -- as if he is running a taco stand. The Mister Rogers act is over the top.
Hehe, i love and respect Paul - but indeed, i view it the same. Nothing wrong with it, I am glad he is doing OK! :)
Please make a CD player with USB-A input for FLAC playback
A CD transport should be cheaper than a player because it doesn't have a DAC in it.
Just like with video streaming, I don't think it will be long and we'll start seeing different labels being on different streaming platforms. You'll need to pay multiple services to get most of the content.
I’ve got no issues with over seas products. But I will always seek North American products first.
Well this was a little depressing
If they ever are able to stream DSD losslessly and also bother to convert most of the music available to said format, then I could see finally ditching my cd's and possibly even vinyl, but that's a pipe dream. (I always wondered if that was a reference to marijuana)
I live for CD & SACD (and becomes Happy Happy when I see a HDCD) so no streaming, LP or tapes here. Ever!
I have them all. But mainly CDs. Including rips to home server. More by historical and financial accident. But I still stream. Which can be paid for for best quality or, there are ad supported options and even free options via local library web site. I use it to explore music and I find more terrific stuff that way. The ones I like, I buy a CD (if they are still selling it). The ability to add a song to a playlist is also terrific.
Make a network transport with USB output please :)
if you mean by "transport" as the mechanism that the disk is put in and spins the disk and has the laser head that is a normal every day optical drive you have one in your pc, laptop and even bluray player.
bluray disks have more data than sacd so reading the data from the media isnt a problem.
so it would be up to the electronics to decode the data and make the sound.
it may be possible that standard computer drives are too slow to read the disk and play it properly and you need to spin the disk to where it would be vibrated to pieces or it would be shot out of the drive and thrown across the room like a frisbee so you could just rip the disk and save the data to an internal ssd.
i am not sure if dennon and meranz is still around or if it is just their names that are still around so you should be safe reverse engineering the drive and if you are ok with human rights violations and sweat shops you could have china produce the mechs for you.
of course your company caters to the "audiophile" so a cheap unit may not look good to your brand.
if you are ok with theft of service and theft of labor you could rig the utility meters to get free electric and do a walmart and work the employees off the clock "as soon as you punch out we need you to take out the garbage"
if theft of service and labor is not your thing then you could work with your local power company to shut down when there is severe weather like heatwave and cold snap to save on your electric bill.
🖤😜rise up! analogue brothers & sisters.. pound the digital impersonators into little bits..😳🤭
As a norwegian, I've never heard of this "transport" thingy... What is it?
A CD player without a DAC.
@@johnnylarue9722 Thanks!
It’s a cd player without the DAC.
The idea is to separate the DAC and eliminate noise and interference that occurs in a normal CD player.
Its a defection that can happend under high lows or low highs, it transport you back in time, about 12 min.
A stupid audiofool obsession
PS Audio builds high end gear, it's unreasonable to expect them to make budget gear. It's not what they do.
Too bad that OPPO got out of the home audio business, they used to make a decent and affordable SACD/DVD player.
The Marantz SACD 10 at $12,000 is using the Marantz SACDM-3 transport mechanism.
Wonder which ones Paul says they bought up. SACDM-2? 🤷🏻♂️
The PS Audio Perfect Wave SACD transport at $7000 seems inexpensive in comparison.
Gotta wonder what Marantz is doing that is so much better.
72 lbs versus 22 lbs is start.
Marantz are better with the money-making side.
And the Marantz would be considered a bargain when compared to something like the CH Precision D1.5 CD/SACD player at $46,000 (as tested by Stereophile magazine in 2022).
The marantz isn't just a transport, it has a dac and headphone amp. If you included a PS audio dac the price would be about the same.
@@dannytse8767 The T+A MP 3100 HV G3 sells for $23k. T+A makes the transport in-house.
The prices are bonkers.
Make a streamer Paul!
The CDs/SACDs becomes like vinyl. It’s for pleasure and fun, and unpractical and expensive.
LPs are expensive. CDs are not.
I don't now, nor will I ever stream.
Please make a cd transport..lots are companies are making new ones...cd's are coming back
Own it Out Right
What’s a Little
Snap Crackle &
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Speaking of
Crackle
The First Time I
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Is When Floyd Came By
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Floyd My Amish Friend Said
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I just RIP my SACD's and store the DSD files on my NAS.
If only this was easy for non engineering types to do. I found it too frustrating and SACDs too expensive and not really giving all that much more from a CD. This is another reason why Sony stopped making SACDs now. Don't get me wrong, SACD should be what all CDs and CD players should have been for the past 20 years. But, Sony greed, again, killed a format.
@mongo2044 It's interesting. I find SACD's to sound much more analog. Ripping SACD's really isn't that much of a hassle - but I understand your point. I also convert, with software, redbook CD rips to DSD128 files then add the converted DSD files to my music library. I find that even converted PCM to DSD files sound a bit more analog on my DAC. I have done some blind A/B testing, with friends, and they agree the converted PCM to DSD version of the songs sound more natural. Oh well...everything in this world can be a rabbit hole.
Paul I just farted I had Starbucks
R&D is paid for in the prices too. Or else they've never made a dime. Engineers obviously don't work for free. So the cumulative costs are subtracted from cumulative revenues and the company has made money or they haven't. The only alternative is that PSAudio does zero R&D or is it free?? LOL
Yes. It was a strange comment he made. Obviously, R&D is just CODB so, it is in the cost of the device, along with paying for the lights, salaries, etc. Maybe he was thinking in comparison to much larger companies that run R&D separate. Maybe bigger Yamaha, Sony, etc. do this. Even small companies do R&D. But it is the owner and some staff messing around with new ideas.
A small architecture firm with 5 or so on staff, is doing R&D all the time. It is called sketching and research. If you create or make things or services, you are doing R&D to some level.
How about less expensive speakers, still cant figure out how Paul came up with his prices? Great guy but not much of a Marketing Guru. I bet 10 years from now you will have zero market share.
NO it is a cheap as they could made it!
🖤from an outsiders view, it would appear that the Mormon States are the last bastion of sensibility in the U.S.A.
🎈🎉the Gaza Riviera.. my gosh!!
Trump made Bibi seethe, he was blindsided thinking he was going to be gifted Gaza at this press conference instead Trump proposed an international economic zone.
SACD is dead. I see no reason to invest in it. Blueray is being killed off as well, so bye bye cheap SACD players.
Weird - I still buy new SACD releases (as well as enjoying the several hundred I already own). - maybe I'm living in some kind of afterlife?
@maxhirsch7035 must be
Bluray isn’t being killed off just blank discs. The boutique market for 4k discs is only growing. You haven’t seen a CD on Best Buy store shelves for 15 years yet they keep putting out lavish music box sets and releases.
There were over 600 new SACD releases worldwide in 2024. I doubt there were 100 new Blu-ray Audio releases in 2024.
@ as opposed to millions of album releases, of which significantly less than half were released on CD.
First! I win again! I win again! I win again!
I could have won, but I was taking a nap! 💤
Man, you're on a roll!
@@unclewilbur8976 I'll catch ya next time, Mr. Wilbur! ❤️
@@ZeusTheTornado Thanks, Zeus! ❤️
Free Spotify and Pandora sound better then my lossless CD rips.
This sounds more like a chain issue. How those rips get to the amp versus the lossy going to the amp.
Paul why does all of your gear look like medical equipment? Will there ever be an effort to simply make your equipment look better? I mean you get in here and pontificate all day long about how superior you are to everyone else I'm just wondering why all your stuff all presents itself with politically-correct styling. Look to 90s Nakamichi if you need a lesson on how to design elegant, sophisticated looking gear. It's not just you, every single 'high end' manufacturer's gear just looks terrible. Physical appearance matters, and high-end manufacturers have terrible aesthetic tastes.