My sister is a classical pipe organist. She used to play festivals - and won a lot of them. She was always worried because her rendition of a piece would sound "a little different" than everyone else's. That's because she would change the "phrasing" a little bit. Change tempo a little bit in places, extend a rest for a 1/4 or 1/2 a beat longer. And that is why she would win the festivals. Because instead of playing a piece "perfectly" she added a little of herself into it. The judges appreciated that and usually rewarded her for it. And I think she sounded better than the kids who could just play the notes exactly as they were written.
Yeah, if producers complain that rock bands don’t keep perfect time, wait until they get a load of post-romantic “classical” soloists and their wanton use of rubato.
@@coyotepeyote Oddly enough, she is a very "technical" player. She is much better at sight reading than playing by ear. She CAN play just about anything as written, but she had a great teacher who helped her add herself into pieces without changing things so much that it's no longer the piece that was written.
As Ben Eller said , if you listen to any Van Halen song , you will hear muted notes , missed timing , off key vocals but , when they said leave it , thats why we fell in love with Van Halen and Ed , warts and all .
Rick Beato did a video on this and used John Bonham as one of the examples. Aligning everything perfectly removes the human element and the "feel" of the song. That's why today's music sounds manufactured.
Agreeeed!! Every drummer sounds the same now because of quantization. When I was a kid I could hear three beats of a measure and know who was playing drums Jeff Porcaro, Steve Gad, Neil Peart, Steve Smith, etc. They all had their own unique feel. I mis that now.
This was surprisingly worse. Maybe Bonzo plays inherently closer, but I didn't feel the immediate revulsion like I did to this atrocity. Don't get me wrong, that was bad, but this...this made me upchuck into the back of my throat a little.
Also Beato did the stop watch on the Police Message in a Bottle and the tempo went up and down but yet it's exactly as it should be. Wouldn't want to hear it any differently.
I've been programming music for 30 years, it's a big part of my job, but I always set quantization as wide & loose as it lets me. Sterile music isn't music, it's robotic. Great work Bobby, enjoyed this immensely & as someone else said, like your taste in music ;)
@@maxi-me My mixes usually peak around -9dB. In the mastering phase I add gain and limit to bring peak volume to unity gain while keeping RMS around -12dB on average. The loudness war can suck a big one and I really don't care if my masters are at "competitive" levels. I'd rather have to turn up my volume and maintain natural dynamic range than have a loud master with no power behind the transients. In reality, if your'e mixing with a large dynamic range then you're probably winning the loudness war.
It really depends on the record. If there wasn't a lot of dynamic range in the source recording, it's just going to sound louder without turning up the volume. Something like Pink Floyd which has a lot of dynamic range is going to get ruined, though.
@@EdwardLammBass Whoa! That's some large headroom. You surely have excellent noise mitigation skills in capture. I simply have too much in the way of analogue artifacts to get that brave. Comes home to roost post mastering. XD Dynamic mixes always get rooked on radio. Those hacks clamp the hard knee like it's holding the roof up. Some of it's necessary to modulate but much of it is just signal abuse with intent of normalization. Had a favorite mastering engineer for many years who'd make "radio masters" of singles to send up. He was very good at outguessing the (near universal) protocol, but crisp wet mixes would still tend to have that "boom box in an oil drum" degradation over the airwaves.
In the 90s I remember reading an Eddie interview -- I think it was in Keyboard magazine -- Where the question was (paraphrasing from memory): Q: How do you deal with playing to a sequencer? A: We don't let it hold us back. I always f*** something up with the programming, and we just go with it.
Wow. I mean WOW. I'm a professional musician, and this is REVELATORY to me. I've never heard such a dramatic example of great time vr. "perfect time". I feel like I'm instantly understanding something I've heard all my life in a critical new way!
Jacob Collier? SZA? I DONT KNOW HOW BUT THEY FOUND ME? Hayley Williams? Pop music today is the best it's ever been. Boundaries are being pushed. Production has made the old songwriting go-to's bland and boring, but it has made room for much more intricate and artistic music. Ya'll trippin'.
"Taken all the danger out" - that's brilliant. Amazing how "off" the song was within even just the first few bars, but how natural it (and the solo) feels as a result. Great video.
Guitar Hero Van Halen would be a good source for just playing around with, though likely not up to quite the same quality as what's used in the video. You can find downloads for the game's songs for use in the fan game Clone Hero, where the guitar, bass, drums, and vocals are all stored as separate audio files.
I thought Dave's vocal sounded a lot better dry, also that was obviously a different take. Would have been cool if they'd have left that headphone request in the final mix. XD
Having removed the patient's heart and replaced it with a clock, all life drained away. Hippocrates shed tears, as the surgery was ill-advised, but it teaches us an important lesson about the difference between humans and machines. Thanks
The issue is post production after the recording. Most records nowadays are quantized again and perfectly placed on the grid, even after being recorded to a click
This video speaks volumes about recording the song as a band. Practice, practice, practice. Then record and capture the song with all of its organic twists and turns.
@@BobbyHuff Eddie only learned about time signatures so he could laugh at them. One of the greatest descriptions of the "Beat It" solo I read was in a guitar mag that had it tabbed out where they said "Look. We have no idea what time signature this is in".
Mentally engrained that bass intro at 17 when the album came out. I unknowingly played 1/2 down until my first tuner a decade later. Now 40+ years later I can conjure up that bass in my head and tune to it . Checked against a Snark almost dead on.
@@ToluRobertson As do I a lot of times. Porcaro wasn't saying that playing to a click ruins the feel. What he was saying is that machine-like time doesn't breathe life into the music. A drummer's touch and personality are what do that. Jeff played jaw-dropping grooves to a click occasionally, as have Vinnie Colauita, Chris Coleman, Simon Phillips, ... I could go on and on. The POINT is, he wasn't saying that perfect time can't feel good. He was saying that just because something is metrically perfect, doesn't mean that it'll feel good when you listen to it. You have to remember that his comment came during a time when drum machines were new and starting to get popular, and a lot of producers were putting musicians - even the top-tier players - through hell trying to get grid-perfect performances out of them. That's what he was talking about.
@@BobbyHuff That bit you said about Bonham, too, was bang on (heh). He's got magic slop he knows how to apply. It's why a lot of drum covers of Zepp I've heard are technically perfect - every note is in its "correct" place, technically, but feels sterile and lifeless.
It's amazing how the song doesn't breathe when it's computerized. When people talk about the music in the space between the notes, that's what computers can't replicate.
Oh please. A computer could easily be programmed to play it like a human would. If a computer can be programmed to play something 100% note perfect then it can be programmed to play it to a human standard. For instance hard mode and easy mode on online chess. You can make the chess AI be the best chess player in the world or be an average chess player.
@@Fireglo Don't agree. The space between the notes is intelligently, or emotionally tempered chaos; you can't program a computer to generate chaos with the same 'naturalness', unless it's memorized and exactly copied something a human has already done. Have you listened to any AI generated melodies? I don't know what it is, but it ain't quite emotion.
@@Sam-go3mb Sorry but I refuse to believe you can't. Some things might not be possible now but I guarantee they will come in time. Remember people in the past once said the plane was impossible and every time a prototype plane met its end the people re-iterated their belief. You see this same outrage to the new auto-driving cars whenever they kill someone. In years to come an auto-driving car killing someone would be inconceivable.
It's amazing how listening with the quantized version feels almost like a weird wow and flutter on an old tape deck. I didn't realize how much I had internalized the changing rhythms. This was a wonderful video and great production. Glad I found your channel! Subbed! 👍 🤘
Painful. You illustrated the point, and I won't be forgetting it any time soon. It would be interesting to hear more about what made the original groove tick. Where did the band speed up and slow down? Which instruments were behind the beat, which were more on top of the beat? etc.
Just knowing how long it took you to quantize those tracks, is worth a thumbs-up, my friend. I sincerely hope that you get a million+ views just to make a little money off of this video. Your time is worth something ;-) Thanks, man!
I've been a guitarist since I was 8 years old and really don't listen to music much except to learn new songs for gigs. Does this possibly help explain why I literally stopped listening to all new music around the early 90's? That's wild, if true.
Perhaps you rather find out the discoveries on your own rather than following an already traveled path. Listening to others music would distract your own journey.
It's possible that the lack of a "groove" in popular music, due to quantizing, was offputting to you, but there's also something called _the Loudness Wars,_ where music is compressed so that the louder parts are the same volume (or nearly the same volume) as the quieter parts. This doesn't sound like it'd be that bad-just like "making everything play in time" doesn't sound like it should make things sound bad-but the issue is that it causes all of the transient loudness-think, the sudden strike of a snare cutting above the rest of the sound-to be compressed and to therefore lose all of their punch, character, detail and, perhaps one of the most important things, their _attack._ So when you listen to music, the drums don't cut, there's no dynamic volume, the music doesn't "breathe," so you just get the impression of a constant, buzzing sinewave of sound. If you want to hear something recorded with a fairly high dynamic range, listen to _Unleash the Archer's_ song _Apex_ from the album of the same name. No auto-tune, no quantizing, no brickwall compression. Just sheer skill and awesome.
When I was a kid in the 80s teaching myself how to play drums, like a lot of kids, I played along with my favorite bands wearing headphones. I would usually get a little frustrated because since I was so in awe of my favorite drummers, I assumed their time was so perfect that it was ME, a mere beginner hack, who's time was all over the place (which it was), but I was also so long in the tooth that I never picked up on how natural nay DESIRABLE the ebbs and flows of these artists really were. Bonham, Porcaro, Copeland, AVH, Peart, Rudd (yep, even Rudd pushes and pulls ever so slightly and perfectly) Now dat I be all growed up and my time is much better, I feel a great weight has been lifted to know that perfect time isn't and was never the goal in the first place. Love your humor Doc!!!!
Dude, your videos are SO good, i was expecting to see over 1M subs :-O. You deserve way more! Keep up the great work and thanks so much for all the time and effort you put into these awesome vids!
I first heard these “master tape” recordings a couple years ago. I was interviewing a producer in Nashville. It’s cool, lots of extra ad-libs by Roth, and of course the extra solo bits from Eddie!
Not sure if he used these for this VH but the rockband game released a bunch of multitracks a while back - I know Rick Beato uses those tracks sometimes
Lol, and that’s the other side of the coin. Bands who just have bad rhythm and try to pass it off as “feel.” Not knocking you, btw... I have been guilty of this too. The problem is that the difference is completely subjective, so we just need to trust our ears
Fascinating! I never realized before how imperfect some of my favorite music is and how much character is lost when those imperfections are removed. Great video, thanks so much for taking the time to put this together and for sharing it! (New Subscriber)
There were many sections I let cycle and this was the average of those sections. Not 2 bars in a row were very close to the grid. This was NOT cut to a click so even though Alex's groove feels great there were MANY tempos to choose from..Hahaha. thanks for watching.
As a Nashvilian of over 30 years, I loved this! It was great hearing the masters. You know people. I would love to see you mix your work in real time. I’ve only seen one other guy do it with a camera in his chest, and it was amazing! Food for thought.
This reminds me of the intro to the song “Big Fat Money” off of the Van Halen Balance album. “Now Al (Alex Van Halen) do want a click?. Al then says “I don’t need no stinking click!”. 😂😂😂😂
Appreciate you doing this comparison for us......It shows just how vital a real good/quality groove is to the success of a song or album. It's true that having everything lined-up to the grid/metronome can make edits easier but at what cost??? Maybe for less experienced players and bands it makes sense to align everything to the grid and for tenured players/bands you try to record the bands FEEL/Performance above everything else:)
I don't think recording to a click is as evil as it's being made out to be. You can still have a click and a grid and allow the musicians to naturally push and lag against that metronome. It only sounds robotic when you quantize every individual note on each instrument to "perfection". You can still have human "flaws" but still be playing (more or less) in time to a metronome. Thus feel can still be maintained so long as you don't quantize everything to over-perfection. You have inspired me to take the actual final 2-track recording (aka CD) of this song and quantize just the snare to always land on 2 and 4 and wherever the other musicians land in relation to that, so be it. That will naturally come along for the ride. I strongly suspect that it will not sound nearly as sterile. More times than not, most people would never notice a difference. The reason they don't is because that relationship of musicians' natural feel is maintained - some will play a little bit ahead of the beat and some will play a little bit behind the beat and some will play closer to on the beat. This is the natural "feel" of the band. Swap out any single member of that band with a fully competent replacement and that feel will instantly change. Not because the musician is worse than the previous, but just because they are different in how they naturally line up to a beat in a band situation with those specific musicians at that time on that song. This is not conscious, it just happens. A metronome does not destroy the feel of a band. Strict quantization of everything everywhere kills the feel of the band. As long as you allow the musicians to line up naturally where they will in relation to the metronome, it's seldom a feel-destroying mandate. At least that's my opinion, which carries exactly as much weight as the rest of the other random dudes on the internet that don't know each other.
My experience is different- I'm a classically trained musician, with next to no recording experience, especially that could compare in any way. But it still makes sense to me. I'm remembering my high school band teacher (who was actually grossly overqualified and he had a violent temper) force the concert band (basically an orchestra minus stringed instruments) to play to a metronome. Not the same vibe and synergy of a recording rock band, but, *shrug* take it for what you will.
I've been trying to record guitar and can safely say the metronome is essential if you're trying to do anything odd with the drums. Doing a beat with the snare on one instead of the kick, fastest way ever to fuck yourself up and start playing the one on two.
@@kevinjones9586 Yep! The quality of all of the bands I've played in was in direct correlation to how symbiotic and locked (or not) the players in the rhythm section were. As a guitarist, live or in the studio, if I ever did anything that was any good, it was because I stood on the shoulders of a killer rhythm section.
"The heart and soul was surgically removed" is about the most accurate phrase you could have come up with. Spot on. Also, thanks for all the work you put in to even attempt this. I hope it pays off :)
Great video Bobby. Good stuff as always. (FYI, as a percussionist, I can tell you it is actually an Acme Mouth Siren. The Slide Whistle has an actual slide on the whistle). Love the video.
Once you let a robot track your timing you lose all feeling in the music, even the best musicians in the world who have absolutely perfect timing, there’s still a feel that an individual musician or band adds to the song. Great video, i didn’t realize how great the song sounded in its original form, I could certainly feel the difference.
it's actually more due to laziness of some producer back in the day and it got passed down. you can create a tempo map in pro tools (always could) and thus be able to do midi to that tempo map, if you needed to add vi's and such, but because it's a little bit more steps in the process to get it proper, most people will just quantize everything to the grid. And I'm pretty sure Cubase has the same thing as beat detective where you can't get your maker to the transients and get the tempo of the song that way.
There’s an old recording saying. “When the red light comes on, be great, or be gone.” You leave Van Halen alone! You’re a bad man. “Honey show me on the recording where the bad man touched you.” 😂😂Seriously, these are massively interesting. 👍
Excellent especially for young people who love their Autotune and thousand mile an hour beat! Just like in artworks a hand drawn or original painting is still more beautiful than a computer generated artwork
It's not bad bad. I could see someone who hasn't heard the original liking the quantized version. As someone who grew up with the music, the quantized version feels off.
It's not excruciatingly bad, it's just slightly off. It's almost hard to tell because the band was just so on fire at the time, and the recordings still somehow retain some oomph.
I love that NAVASA!!!! I’ve not done that yet. I’ve bumped up the tempo in choruses before but not much more than that. Can u give an example for all of us what you do? Thanks!
@@BobbyHuff well you can either just hope that the feel is naturally in the recording, but if it isn't, you can align things to the grid, add a little bit of swing, and you can create a tempo automation just before you export your mix to be mastered. i've done this to a few tracks myself and it definitely gave the track a unique, subtle, but noticeable movement. better than being exactly on the grid, generally you can get away with going -5 to +5 BPM from your base tempo without breaking the groove, if you want to create a more exaggerated tempo drop then obviously you can add or take as much as you want, but yeah. that's the way it's best done, assuming the recordings aren't already good as they are.
@@BobbyHuff on several songs i had the tempo, for example at 120, automating between 115 and 125 on a constant loop at all times, incrementally increasing or decreasing by the decimal which makes it very transparent. it's smart to make sure that you're not resampling any audio clips, and that they are locked to the base tempo as not to mess up your playlist/arrangement when the tempo is being automated. for example if you start automating the tempo and you have audio clips in the playlist that aren't locked to the base tempo, they will stretch around in the playlist in realtime as the tempo is being automated i guess that depends on your DAW, but in my DAW, I have to make every audio clip locked to base tempo as to avoid that
Can vouch for this as a solid way to introduce some humanity back into songs which are too gridded up. My goto is pushing the tempo by a couple bpms as you approach a chorus and then returning to the verse a few bpms faster than it previously was. Also, just like overshooting melodically, you can can introduce a verse which is a titch slower than baseline and then automate the tempo back up. These subtle changes can make a world of difference to how a song is received, even if the variations are not consciously perceived.
In a young, label independent recording band, I guess it's all about money really. If we had the money we would give recording without quantizing a go but it's just so cost effective to grab a few good takes and have the engineer do the rest. And that's including the cost of hiring a rehearsal room to get better together to get to a point where we have that skill, before studio, although I think we mesh just fine live. From the documentaries I've seen about music making in the 70s-90s it just seemed like there was more space to breathe in the music world, more opportunities. Now so many people have to have two jobs just to make bills, there's so little time to hone your skills, and so little leg room to save money to record music professionally. It's more about luck than anything else, so it seems to me, to get noticed by someone who thinks you could make them money so they'll give you a chance. Maybe that's just the rose tinted glasses of the past, I don't know. Whenever some kind of wide spread phenomenon happens like this I always ask why, why did it start and why does it continue now, and most often the answer seems to be money
Devin you are absolutely right. We aren’t in your shoes so you do whatever it takes to make your record with the budget you have! Music is much much tougher than it was back in the day and it’s very difficult to get budgets and make money. There is no wrong way or right way. You do your thing and follow your heart and milk the most you can from your budget. Don’t let anyone judge you on that and if they do don’t listen. Go for it!!!!
@@HorribleHomeVideo no really, I know it sounds like made up name, but there is actually a band called Van Halen. They're best known for the songs *Sweet Thing* and *Brown-Eyed Girl* as well as the classic *Moondance*
Bwahaa! Loved this!! I've been playing with this stuff and you very clearly call out why the quantize tools don't get the Blues.. now I feel silly.. but smarter! Mucho Thanko's, Dr. Bob!
A good PC laptop with at least 16 gig of memory and a fast processor, Cubase, and an Apollo Twin interface by Universal Audio. Also get an sM7 mic and a sm57 mic. Around 2 grand. Get your gear from Sweetwater Sound on the internet and you could get the laptop from Best Buy, or Sams Club, etc... hope that helps Kurt!
Incredible!!! Funny how that famous VH groove was instantly LOST!! Amazing how music can work,even if played wrong. Yipes,..no no no,not wrong,but "with feeling". This was a great vidio,and you are freakin halarious!! Keep it up!!
Our church band always talks about using a click track. We don't at the moment and I think we do a great job of our ebbs and flows...but that is what LIVE music is about. All I hear is ohhhh a click track would do this and that and the other....I just don't know. I, of course, will go along to get along but....I won't like it I don't think.
@@ToluRobertson Bro. No one is saying you must agree with everything in this video. It's just an experiment that shows us both ways, and we all get to decide for ourselves which way we like it. The beauty of music! Self expression.
Having jammed this track on vinyl for years and years... I feel terrible.. for kind of digging this as an alternate take. I can't help it, if you had a techno version of this song I'd jam it, a bluegrass version, a bollywood version, whatever.
AMAZING CHANNEL, YOU ROCK DOC!!!!! Keep do’n what you do 🤘🏿 This is a new and different approach to music that I’ve never seen before and I’m luv’n it! Will you also let us know what tools you use ? Sounds like your had the VAN HALEN masters. And yes I SUBSCRIBED 👍🏿
Wow thanks Aaron I appreciate your kindness and thanks for the sub! As far as tools I’m all in the box. I rarely use my SSL SUMMING console or SSL Bus compressor anymore. I record and mix in Cubase and use all the plugins everyone else does...Waves, UAD, Fab Filter, Sound Toys, Slate, etc. I’m also very fond of Korneff plugins especially the Pawnshop Comp. I hope I answered your question if I left something out hit me back!
I’m 7 seconds in and had to comment already! I figure this is another example of “Just because you CAN, doesn’t mean ya should” ala the Steve Perry pitch correction video, so... Dr. Bob holding back a laugh in the intro. Yep. This is gonna be fun!
Wow, that really does make a difference. This just shows that the greatest rhythm guitar player of all time certainly doesn't need to be time corrected. As the saying goes, don't fix it if it ain't broke.
It's interesting how happy and melodic it sounds when it's quantized -- not exactly the feel you want when you're talking about runnin' with the devil. This is the best example of feel vs. quantizing I've seen yet!
@@BobbyHuff Haha. As someone who stumbled on to this, I am glad you said this. This way I know it is in fun and not meant to be your masterpiece or something,.
@@BobbyHuff As mentioned, I stumbled upon this and have no idea about mixing, etc. What I am assuming you did was you did was made this into how the track would sound if it were mixed today? You may have mentioned that in your intro, but I skipped to the song. Anyways. You did an awesome job. Sounds absolutely awesome. Listening to this was cool, but all it does is make me want to listen to the original. Lol.
This is incredible thanks. Just wondering if it would be possible to break down in even further detail what exactly we lose when we quantise thusly. Please don’t hate me for asking.
I wouldn’t hate you for asking anything! I appreciate you watching. Working on a new video from this series and I’ll try to focus on that a little more. Great comment!
"Taking the danger out of it" is the perfect way to describe quantizing most rock music.
Agreed!! My friend John Painters quote.
@@BobbyHuff John Painter from the band Fleming and John?
@@aarongaul6207 yes Aaron!
Frank Zappa used to talk about putting eyebrows on an arrangement. I got that.
Tried to time correct Lars Ulrich but didn't have enough computing power
HAHAHAHAHA!!! Call NASA.... Hahahahaha
Nice, hahahahaha
YESSSSS!!! LOL!
Yep, could ONLY be done by NASA! Or maybe Spielberg.......
@@unforsakenproductions62 Hahaha!! Spielberg grids Van Halen!
When they offered Lars a drum synch he said "is that where drummers wash their hands before playing?"
My sister is a classical pipe organist. She used to play festivals - and won a lot of them. She was always worried because her rendition of a piece would sound "a little different" than everyone else's. That's because she would change the "phrasing" a little bit. Change tempo a little bit in places, extend a rest for a 1/4 or 1/2 a beat longer. And that is why she would win the festivals. Because instead of playing a piece "perfectly" she added a little of herself into it. The judges appreciated that and usually rewarded her for it. And I think she sounded better than the kids who could just play the notes exactly as they were written.
It's almost like there is a difference in playing notes instead of playing MUSIC.
In my mind that's the difference between being a true musician and feeling a piece, or just being a complete technician and copying something exactly.
I dig anyone who starts out saying there sister plays the pipe organ.
Send hate mail to Chris Brumbaugh @ .....
Yeah, if producers complain that rock bands don’t keep perfect time, wait until they get a load of post-romantic “classical” soloists and their wanton use of rubato.
@@coyotepeyote Oddly enough, she is a very "technical" player. She is much better at sight reading than playing by ear. She CAN play just about anything as written, but she had a great teacher who helped her add herself into pieces without changing things so much that it's no longer the piece that was written.
""The surgery was a mostly success - only the head was cut off"
Hahahaha! We’ve lost the patient Daniel!
We have a say in Italy when someone grossly messes things up: "The surgery was successful, but the patient died."
@@lanreb920 perfect!!!
I did NOT know Eddie's playing could be made to sound so lifeless. I can not un-hear this. Well done!
Thanks Rick and I'm sorry! hahaha
This is obviously a raw track but I disagree I think he sounds unbelievable even without the reverb bussed in.
As Ben Eller said , if you listen to any Van Halen song , you will hear muted notes , missed timing , off key vocals but , when they said leave it , thats why we fell in love with Van Halen and Ed , warts and all .
Rick Beato did a video on this and used John Bonham as one of the examples. Aligning everything perfectly removes the human element and the "feel" of the song. That's why today's music sounds manufactured.
Beato is great
Agreeeed!! Every drummer sounds the same now because of quantization. When I was a kid I could hear three beats of a measure and know who was playing drums Jeff Porcaro, Steve Gad, Neil Peart, Steve Smith, etc. They all had their own unique feel. I mis that now.
This was surprisingly worse. Maybe Bonzo plays inherently closer, but I didn't feel the immediate revulsion like I did to this atrocity. Don't get me wrong, that was bad, but this...this made me upchuck into the back of my throat a little.
@@daggergblue Agreed! I showered after making this video.
Also Beato did the stop watch on the Police Message in a Bottle and the tempo went up and down but yet it's exactly as it should be. Wouldn't want to hear it any differently.
I've been programming music for 30 years, it's a big part of my job, but I always set quantization as wide & loose as it lets me. Sterile music isn't music, it's robotic. Great work Bobby, enjoyed this immensely & as someone else said, like your taste in music ;)
Thanks so much for the kindness Mike! I appreciate you watching!
Great video! So I assume this and the loudness war is the reason why a lot of old albums sound better than the remastered versions, right?
Absolutely Tobi!
I guess I'll lose that War, I still mix at -4dB.
@@maxi-me My mixes usually peak around -9dB. In the mastering phase I add gain and limit to bring peak volume to unity gain while keeping RMS around -12dB on average. The loudness war can suck a big one and I really don't care if my masters are at "competitive" levels. I'd rather have to turn up my volume and maintain natural dynamic range than have a loud master with no power behind the transients. In reality, if your'e mixing with a large dynamic range then you're probably winning the loudness war.
It really depends on the record. If there wasn't a lot of dynamic range in the source recording, it's just going to sound louder without turning up the volume. Something like Pink Floyd which has a lot of dynamic range is going to get ruined, though.
@@EdwardLammBass Whoa! That's some large headroom. You surely have excellent noise mitigation skills in capture. I simply have too much in the way of analogue artifacts to get that brave. Comes home to roost post mastering. XD
Dynamic mixes always get rooked on radio. Those hacks clamp the hard knee like it's holding the roof up. Some of it's necessary to modulate but much of it is just signal abuse with intent of normalization.
Had a favorite mastering engineer for many years who'd make "radio masters" of singles to send up. He was very good at outguessing the (near universal) protocol, but crisp wet mixes would still tend to have that "boom box in an oil drum" degradation over the airwaves.
In the 90s I remember reading an Eddie interview -- I think it was in Keyboard magazine -- Where the question was (paraphrasing from memory): Q: How do you deal with playing to a sequencer? A: We don't let it hold us back. I always f*** something up with the programming, and we just go with it.
Wow. I mean WOW. I'm a professional musician, and this is REVELATORY to me. I've never heard such a dramatic example of great time vr. "perfect time". I feel like I'm instantly understanding something I've heard all my life in a critical new way!
Thanks for watching Brian!
I love your sense of humor and your taste in music 🤘😁
Thanks David!!! We all need a good song and a laugh right??? I appreciate you watching man!
"Taking all the danger out" is a perfect description.
Agreed!!!
This is precisely why today’s pop music is so dreadful.
I hear ya!!
100%...
Jacob Collier? SZA? I DONT KNOW HOW BUT THEY FOUND ME? Hayley Williams? Pop music today is the best it's ever been. Boundaries are being pushed. Production has made the old songwriting go-to's bland and boring, but it has made room for much more intricate and artistic music. Ya'll trippin'.
@@deja0entendu I LOVE Hayley Williams. Have worked with 3 of Paramore’s producers and mixers!
Ok boomer
"Taken all the danger out" - that's brilliant. Amazing how "off" the song was within even just the first few bars, but how natural it (and the solo) feels as a result. Great video.
Agreed.... good comments Kevin!!!!
Where did you find the raw tracks???
30 years of friends in the music business! Thanks for watching!
Guitar Hero Van Halen would be a good source for just playing around with, though likely not up to quite the same quality as what's used in the video. You can find downloads for the game's songs for use in the fan game Clone Hero, where the guitar, bass, drums, and vocals are all stored as separate audio files.
I thought Dave's vocal sounded a lot better dry, also that was obviously a different take. Would have been cool if they'd have left that headphone request in the final mix. XD
Having removed the patient's heart and replaced it with a clock, all life drained away. Hippocrates shed tears, as the surgery was ill-advised, but it teaches us an important lesson about the difference between humans and machines. Thanks
Hahahaha!! That was amazing!!!!
Aint talking about any feel... It’s PERFECTLY IN TIME, but the feel is GONE...
Agreed Isaiah!!
Quantizing out of time audio will lose its feel.
But you can play with feel if you record to a click.
@@rhythmjones 100% ^
The issue is post production after the recording. Most records nowadays are quantized again and perfectly placed on the grid, even after being recorded to a click
@@gunnarstreuli Exactly correct Gunnar!
i can’t wait to send this to my music tech teacher next time he tells me to quantise rock
Hahahaha!! Oh no he will hate me!!
Still gotta be able to stay in time, to even begin to understand how to play around with it
man, even with you messing around and him getting quantized, Eddie still sounds like a soaring eagle
Even I can’t screw up Eddie! Ha ha Ha
This video speaks volumes about recording the song as a band. Practice, practice, practice. Then record and capture the song with all of its organic twists and turns.
Yes ROMAN!!!!!
Warts and all, just like Zeppelin and the squeaky drum pedal.
I can tell a huge difference in Ed’s solo
yes!!!!!! Eddie aint there anymore!
Don't have that flow
Man that solo is painful to listen to.. lol
@@BobbyHuff Eddie only learned about time signatures so he could laugh at them. One of the greatest descriptions of the "Beat It" solo I read was in a guitar mag that had it tabbed out where they said "Look. We have no idea what time signature this is in".
@@hoilst love that!! Yeah he just played and never really dissected what it was. Beautiful... a free spirit.
Mentally engrained that bass intro at 17 when the album came out. I unknowingly played 1/2 down until my first tuner a decade later. Now 40+ years later I can conjure up that bass in my head and tune to it . Checked against a Snark almost dead on.
Jeff Porcaro quote: "Perfect time is not good-feeling time."
Jeff is the king of time and groove for me.
Bullshit. Adam Deitch and Chad Sexton both vibe to a click.
@@ToluRobertson As do I a lot of times. Porcaro wasn't saying that playing to a click ruins the feel. What he was saying is that machine-like time doesn't breathe life into the music. A drummer's touch and personality are what do that. Jeff played jaw-dropping grooves to a click occasionally, as have Vinnie Colauita, Chris Coleman, Simon Phillips, ... I could go on and on. The POINT is, he wasn't saying that perfect time can't feel good. He was saying that just because something is metrically perfect, doesn't mean that it'll feel good when you listen to it. You have to remember that his comment came during a time when drum machines were new and starting to get popular, and a lot of producers were putting musicians - even the top-tier players - through hell trying to get grid-perfect performances out of them. That's what he was talking about.
@@BobbyHuff That bit you said about Bonham, too, was bang on (heh). He's got magic slop he knows how to apply. It's why a lot of drum covers of Zepp I've heard are technically perfect - every note is in its "correct" place, technically, but feels sterile and lifeless.
@@hoilst yeah it’s all about his groove and lope!!! Beautiful concept of time! When he plays it sounds like music!!
It's amazing how the song doesn't breathe when it's computerized. When people talk about the music in the space between the notes, that's what computers can't replicate.
absolutely.
Give them time. They have to "learn the rules before they break the rules"
Oh please. A computer could easily be programmed to play it like a human would. If a computer can be programmed to play something 100% note perfect then it can be programmed to play it to a human standard. For instance hard mode and easy mode on online chess. You can make the chess AI be the best chess player in the world or be an average chess player.
@@Fireglo Don't agree. The space between the notes is intelligently, or emotionally tempered chaos; you can't program a computer to generate chaos with the same 'naturalness', unless it's memorized and exactly copied something a human has already done.
Have you listened to any AI generated melodies? I don't know what it is, but it ain't quite emotion.
@@Sam-go3mb Sorry but I refuse to believe you can't. Some things might not be possible now but I guarantee they will come in time. Remember people in the past once said the plane was impossible and every time a prototype plane met its end the people re-iterated their belief. You see this same outrage to the new auto-driving cars whenever they kill someone. In years to come an auto-driving car killing someone would be inconceivable.
It's amazing how listening with the quantized version feels almost like a weird wow and flutter on an old tape deck. I didn't realize how much I had internalized the changing rhythms. This was a wonderful video and great production. Glad I found your channel! Subbed! 👍 🤘
Painful. You illustrated the point, and I won't be forgetting it any time soon. It would be interesting to hear more about what made the original groove tick. Where did the band speed up and slow down? Which instruments were behind the beat, which were more on top of the beat? etc.
Just knowing how long it took you to quantize those tracks, is worth a thumbs-up, my friend. I sincerely hope that you get a million+ views just to make a little money off of this video. Your time is worth something ;-) Thanks, man!
Thanks Mr. Drums...it was kinda fun!!!
I've been a guitarist since I was 8 years old and really don't listen to music much except to learn new songs for gigs. Does this possibly help explain why I literally stopped listening to all new music around the early 90's? That's wild, if true.
No, its due to your age. You're locked into your era which is not a bad thing because things come around.
It's not your age, it's when music started to suck, all genres.
Perhaps you rather find out the discoveries on your own rather than following an already traveled path. Listening to others music would distract your own journey.
It's possible that the lack of a "groove" in popular music, due to quantizing, was offputting to you, but there's also something called _the Loudness Wars,_ where music is compressed so that the louder parts are the same volume (or nearly the same volume) as the quieter parts. This doesn't sound like it'd be that bad-just like "making everything play in time" doesn't sound like it should make things sound bad-but the issue is that it causes all of the transient loudness-think, the sudden strike of a snare cutting above the rest of the sound-to be compressed and to therefore lose all of their punch, character, detail and, perhaps one of the most important things, their _attack._
So when you listen to music, the drums don't cut, there's no dynamic volume, the music doesn't "breathe," so you just get the impression of a constant, buzzing sinewave of sound.
If you want to hear something recorded with a fairly high dynamic range, listen to _Unleash the Archer's_ song _Apex_ from the album of the same name. No auto-tune, no quantizing, no brickwall compression. Just sheer skill and awesome.
Yep, All that did was take all the swagger out of the song.
When I was a kid in the 80s teaching myself how to play drums, like a lot of kids, I played along with my favorite bands wearing headphones. I would usually get a little frustrated because since I was so in awe of my favorite drummers, I assumed their time was so perfect that it was ME, a mere beginner hack, who's time was all over the place (which it was), but I was also so long in the tooth that I never picked up on how natural nay DESIRABLE the ebbs and flows of these artists really were. Bonham, Porcaro, Copeland, AVH, Peart, Rudd (yep, even Rudd pushes and pulls ever so slightly and perfectly) Now dat I be all growed up and my time is much better, I feel a great weight has been lifted to know that perfect time isn't and was never the goal in the first place. Love your humor Doc!!!!
Dude, your videos are SO good, i was expecting to see over 1M subs :-O. You deserve way more!
Keep up the great work and thanks so much for all the time and effort you put into these awesome vids!
I'm curious as to where you got these multitrack recordings of classic VH.
I first heard these “master tape” recordings a couple years ago. I was interviewing a producer in Nashville. It’s cool, lots of extra ad-libs by Roth, and of course the extra solo bits from Eddie!
Not sure if he used these for this VH but the rockband game released a bunch of multitracks a while back - I know Rick Beato uses those tracks sometimes
@@lynnjones4097 oh hell yeah!...that never crossed my mind🤔
This makes me feel better about the terrible off time music I record
hahahaha!!!!
Lol, and that’s the other side of the coin. Bands who just have bad rhythm and try to pass it off as “feel.” Not knocking you, btw... I have been guilty of this too.
The problem is that the difference is completely subjective, so we just need to trust our ears
Fascinating! I never realized before how imperfect some of my favorite music is and how much character is lost when those imperfections are removed. Great video, thanks so much for taking the time to put this together and for sharing it! (New Subscriber)
Thanks Eric. Well said!’ Thanks for the sub!
This was hysterical, and lots of work to prepare. Thanks!
"Earlier today I cooked the song at 95bpm..."
There were many sections I let cycle and this was the average of those sections. Not 2 bars in a row were very close to the grid. This was NOT cut to a click so even though Alex's groove feels great there were MANY tempos to choose from..Hahaha. thanks for watching.
"cooked the song"
Bobby Huff becomes Bobby Flay?
@@jcb3393 hahahaha
This knowledge should be on every school curriculum.
Hahahaha!! Agreed!!!!!!
As a Nashvilian of over 30 years, I loved this! It was great hearing the masters. You know people. I would love to see you mix your work in real time. I’ve only seen one other guy do it with a camera in his chest, and it was amazing! Food for thought.
Search for Daniel Duskin
Thank You Bill!!
@@emolatur That's him!
Just discovered your channel today and it's awesome! This was cooler than the other side of the pillow!
Thank you Michael!!
Awful. Especially the beginning. I like the David Lee Roth request for more in the headphones
Gotta love Diamond Dave!!
Love the stuff you find hidden in the old stems.
Totally cracked me up hearing that.
The "little more volume in the headphones, please" is a vocal part from the blazing track "As Is" from VH's final album, A Different Kind Of Truth.
@@kevinwilkins3248 thanks for IDing this tidbit. I immediately had questions when I heard it.
This reminds me of the intro to the song “Big Fat Money” off of the Van Halen Balance album. “Now Al (Alex Van Halen) do want a click?. Al then says “I don’t need no stinking click!”. 😂😂😂😂
Ill have to go listen to that one.. I need to dive into Balance more!!!!!
@@BobbyHuff Not a fan of the song as the lyrics are really “cheesy”. However, I always thought the intro was funny. 👍
Appreciate you doing this comparison for us......It shows just how vital a real good/quality groove is to the success of a song or album. It's true that having everything lined-up to the grid/metronome can make edits easier but at what cost??? Maybe for less experienced players and bands it makes sense to align everything to the grid and for tenured players/bands you try to record the bands FEEL/Performance above everything else:)
It doesn't sound bad, but it doesn't sound right either. And I think that's the point.
I don't think recording to a click is as evil as it's being made out to be. You can still have a click and a grid and allow the musicians to naturally push and lag against that metronome. It only sounds robotic when you quantize every individual note on each instrument to "perfection". You can still have human "flaws" but still be playing (more or less) in time to a metronome. Thus feel can still be maintained so long as you don't quantize everything to over-perfection.
You have inspired me to take the actual final 2-track recording (aka CD) of this song and quantize just the snare to always land on 2 and 4 and wherever the other musicians land in relation to that, so be it. That will naturally come along for the ride. I strongly suspect that it will not sound nearly as sterile. More times than not, most people would never notice a difference. The reason they don't is because that relationship of musicians' natural feel is maintained - some will play a little bit ahead of the beat and some will play a little bit behind the beat and some will play closer to on the beat. This is the natural "feel" of the band. Swap out any single member of that band with a fully competent replacement and that feel will instantly change. Not because the musician is worse than the previous, but just because they are different in how they naturally line up to a beat in a band situation with those specific musicians at that time on that song. This is not conscious, it just happens. A metronome does not destroy the feel of a band. Strict quantization of everything everywhere kills the feel of the band. As long as you allow the musicians to line up naturally where they will in relation to the metronome, it's seldom a feel-destroying mandate.
At least that's my opinion, which carries exactly as much weight as the rest of the other random dudes on the internet that don't know each other.
My experience is different- I'm a classically trained musician, with next to no recording experience, especially that could compare in any way. But it still makes sense to me. I'm remembering my high school band teacher (who was actually grossly overqualified and he had a violent temper) force the concert band (basically an orchestra minus stringed instruments) to play to a metronome. Not the same vibe and synergy of a recording rock band, but, *shrug* take it for what you will.
Exactly this.
Please share your findings. I also believe that the click is not evil. I like running with it.
I've been trying to record guitar and can safely say the metronome is essential if you're trying to do anything odd with the drums. Doing a beat with the snare on one instead of the kick, fastest way ever to fuck yourself up and start playing the one on two.
@@kevinjones9586 Yep! The quality of all of the bands I've played in was in direct correlation to how symbiotic and locked (or not) the players in the rhythm section were. As a guitarist, live or in the studio, if I ever did anything that was any good, it was because I stood on the shoulders of a killer rhythm section.
"The heart and soul was surgically removed" is about the most accurate phrase you could have come up with. Spot on. Also, thanks for all the work you put in to even attempt this. I hope it pays off :)
Thanks for watching and commenting!
Great video Bobby. Good stuff as always. (FYI, as a percussionist, I can tell you it is actually an Acme Mouth Siren. The Slide Whistle has an actual slide on the whistle). Love the video.
Just when you think every music niche has been covered on UA-cam, you come out and hit me with these fantastic video ideas! Great content.
Hahahaha!! Thanks! Are u really the worlds worst musician?? Cmon... I doubt it!!! Haha
Bobby Huff that's my claim and I'm sticking to it :)
@@officialWWM hahahaha!!!! I still don’t believe you!
@@BobbyHuff Check out my latest video and judge for yourself, lol.
Once you let a robot track your timing you lose all feeling in the music, even the best musicians in the world who have absolutely perfect timing, there’s still a feel that an individual musician or band adds to the song.
Great video, i didn’t realize how great the song sounded in its original form, I could certainly feel the difference.
Thanks for watching and great comments!
Dang, that sounds godawful!!! But it seems that’s the point you were trying to make, so hell yeah, well done, Bobby!!!
Thanks JC!! Yes awful!!!
Another fantastic demonstration, Bobby! And nice JMP quote.
Which version of this were you using? It sounded like alternate takes.
Haha! Thanks. Yes I have 4 or 5 different vocal takes and I think they prob comped from these.
it's actually more due to laziness of some producer back in the day and it got passed down. you can create a tempo map in pro tools (always could) and thus be able to do midi to that tempo map, if you needed to add vi's and such, but because it's a little bit more steps in the process to get it proper, most people will just quantize everything to the grid. And I'm pretty sure Cubase has the same thing as beat detective where you can't get your maker to the transients and get the tempo of the song that way.
"It don't mean a thing, if it ain't got that swing" Computers are for squares. Don't let them box you in! LOL
Hahaha Love iT!!
@@BobbyHuff only real musicians and artists will get it. Thanks!
@@orbithesun1 I’m glad you get it!!
@@BobbyHuff keep up the great work.
@@orbithesun1 Thanks so much for your kindness!!
There’s an old recording saying. “When the red light comes on, be great, or be gone.” You leave Van Halen alone! You’re a bad man. “Honey show me on the recording where the bad man touched you.” 😂😂Seriously, these are massively interesting. 👍
No files were harmed in the making of this video! Hahahaha
How do you get the individual tracks seperated like that? What is this sorcery?
@@christianfoster3806 hahaha! I’ve got a lot of friend..
Wow! Excellent excellent!! You need your own Nationwide television special so that the average person can get a clue! Thank you. M.
HAHAHAHA Thanks Marc!!!
Never disappointing. Great analysis and fun to boot. Great saying: "taking the danger out."
Thanks for watching Kelly!
Excellent especially for young people who love their Autotune and thousand mile an hour beat! Just like in artworks a hand drawn or original painting is still more beautiful than a computer generated artwork
It's not bad bad. I could see someone who hasn't heard the original liking the quantized version. As someone who grew up with the music, the quantized version feels off.
I hear ya Matthew!
It's not excruciatingly bad, it's just slightly off. It's almost hard to tell because the band was just so on fire at the time, and the recordings still somehow retain some oomph.
@@GullibleMcFly Nope, very easy to tell and sounds excruciatingly bad...and I am not overselling here, it was awful.
@@garfinn4555 👌
We've been tempo mapping "feel" into our grids lately, sometimes by as much as 10 bpm's. Big difference.
I love that NAVASA!!!! I’ve not done that yet. I’ve bumped up the tempo in choruses before but not much more than that. Can u give an example for all of us what you do? Thanks!
@@BobbyHuff well you can either just hope that the feel is naturally in the recording, but if it isn't, you can align things to the grid, add a little bit of swing, and you can create a tempo automation just before you export your mix to be mastered.
i've done this to a few tracks myself and it definitely gave the track a unique, subtle, but noticeable movement. better than being exactly on the grid, generally you can get away with going -5 to +5 BPM from your base tempo without breaking the groove, if you want to create a more exaggerated tempo drop then obviously you can add or take as much as you want, but yeah. that's the way it's best done, assuming the recordings aren't already good as they are.
@@BobbyHuff on several songs i had the tempo, for example at 120, automating between 115 and 125 on a constant loop at all times, incrementally increasing or decreasing by the decimal which makes it very transparent.
it's smart to make sure that you're not resampling any audio clips, and that they are locked to the base tempo as not to mess up your playlist/arrangement when the tempo is being automated.
for example if you start automating the tempo and you have audio clips in the playlist that aren't locked to the base tempo, they will stretch around in the playlist in realtime as the tempo is being automated
i guess that depends on your DAW, but in my DAW, I have to make every audio clip locked to base tempo as to avoid that
Can vouch for this as a solid way to introduce some humanity back into songs which are too gridded up. My goto is pushing the tempo by a couple bpms as you approach a chorus and then returning to the verse a few bpms faster than it previously was. Also, just like overshooting melodically, you can can introduce a verse which is a titch slower than baseline and then automate the tempo back up. These subtle changes can make a world of difference to how a song is received, even if the variations are not consciously perceived.
@@largepoodle6036 agreed!!!!!
In a young, label independent recording band, I guess it's all about money really. If we had the money we would give recording without quantizing a go but it's just so cost effective to grab a few good takes and have the engineer do the rest. And that's including the cost of hiring a rehearsal room to get better together to get to a point where we have that skill, before studio, although I think we mesh just fine live. From the documentaries I've seen about music making in the 70s-90s it just seemed like there was more space to breathe in the music world, more opportunities. Now so many people have to have two jobs just to make bills, there's so little time to hone your skills, and so little leg room to save money to record music professionally. It's more about luck than anything else, so it seems to me, to get noticed by someone who thinks you could make them money so they'll give you a chance.
Maybe that's just the rose tinted glasses of the past, I don't know. Whenever some kind of wide spread phenomenon happens like this I always ask why, why did it start and why does it continue now, and most often the answer seems to be money
Devin you are absolutely right. We aren’t in your shoes so you do whatever it takes to make your record with the budget you have! Music is much much tougher than it was back in the day and it’s very difficult to get budgets and make money. There is no wrong way or right way. You do your thing and follow your heart and milk the most you can from your budget. Don’t let anyone judge you on that and if they do don’t listen. Go for it!!!!
:) thank you for your words of encouragement - we do this because we love it!
This sucked life out of it. I´m shocked! Great lesson!
Thanks Henry...agreeed!!!!!
One day, Van Halen's gonna become one of the biggest bands.
Hahaha! Thank you Charles!
Who would've known natural selection would choose Cardi B a few decades later
@@tear728 HAHAHAHA!!! REALLY!!!
Sounds made up and fake
@@HorribleHomeVideo no really, I know it sounds like made up name, but there is actually a band called Van Halen. They're best known for the songs *Sweet Thing* and *Brown-Eyed Girl* as well as the classic *Moondance*
Thanks for doing this, totally gonna reference this video every time this issue comes up.
Thanks Fredrick!
Bwahaa! Loved this!! I've been playing with this stuff and you very clearly call out why the quantize tools don't get the Blues.. now I feel silly.. but smarter! Mucho Thanko's, Dr. Bob!
Thanks for watching and commenting CT!
Could you imagine AC⚡DC or Queen crammed into the cookie cutter like this. It's a sad time for Rock n Roll
Agreed...Rock is lost at the moment
AC/DC's Phil Rudd-provided swing would be gone.
@@scottbrower9052 agreed!!
You just turned Van Halen into Van Heusen (look it up, it will make sense). 🥺😢😭
Hahahaha!! Hilarious!!!!
Awesome video. This proves that “feel” cannot be put in a box.
Thanks Michael!! Agreed!
How did you get acces to the multi trax? I wonder? Very nice to follow your work btw
The only cool thing is hearing Dave’s commentary.
I had to go listen to Velvet Underground just to get the taste of this out of my mouth.
😂😂😂
Bobby, what would you recommend as the best, lowest cost, home studio system today to set up to record with?
A good PC laptop with at least 16 gig of memory and a fast processor, Cubase, and an Apollo Twin interface by Universal Audio. Also get an sM7 mic and a sm57 mic. Around 2 grand. Get your gear from Sweetwater Sound on the internet and you could get the laptop from Best Buy, or Sams Club, etc... hope that helps Kurt!
Incredible!!! Funny how that famous VH groove was instantly LOST!! Amazing how music can work,even if played wrong. Yipes,..no no no,not wrong,but "with feeling". This was a great vidio,and you are freakin halarious!! Keep it up!!
Thank you Corey!
I'd love to see you do this to a song off from the Nirvana " Bleach" album.
Oh gawd. That sounds awful! This is like the Alexa cover band version. Kill me!
I watched this a week ago and I still feel violated! Haha. Good content. Thanks and keep it up!
I showered after making it!!
Wild man!!! Happy Birthday Edward!! Love you!!
Thanks for watching Johnny!
Even all neatly packed in like that it doesnt sound `bad` Eddie`s feel is still there. You cant edit that out less you remove all the guitars.
Wow... when you put it in time... it sounds like it's rushing. Holy crap!
No computer can properly do Van Halen justice until it learns how to snort blow and pound beers!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAH!!! Ur kiilin me Scott..
How do you get separate tracks? Like is there a program that can decode the tracks from something, vinyl perhaps or do you buy separate tracks.
This makes me never want to use a click track again
Our church band always talks about using a click track. We don't at the moment and I think we do a great job of our ebbs and flows...but that is what LIVE music is about. All I hear is ohhhh a click track would do this and that and the other....I just don't know. I, of course, will go along to get along but....I won't like it I don't think.
@@dobieprime You really only need a click track if your drummer sucks.
So much wrong shit being said here make it stop.
@@ToluRobertson Bro. No one is saying you must agree with everything in this video. It's just an experiment that shows us both ways, and we all get to decide for ourselves which way we like it. The beauty of music! Self expression.
Having jammed this track on vinyl for years and years... I feel terrible.. for kind of digging this as an alternate take. I can't help it, if you had a techno version of this song I'd jam it, a bluegrass version, a bollywood version, whatever.
Hahaha...
AMAZING CHANNEL, YOU ROCK DOC!!!!!
Keep do’n what you do 🤘🏿
This is a new and different approach to music that I’ve never seen before and I’m luv’n it!
Will you also let us know what tools you use ?
Sounds like your had the VAN HALEN masters.
And yes I SUBSCRIBED 👍🏿
Wow thanks Aaron I appreciate your kindness and thanks for the sub!
As far as tools I’m all in the box. I rarely use my SSL SUMMING console or SSL Bus compressor anymore. I record and mix in Cubase and use all the plugins everyone else does...Waves, UAD, Fab Filter, Sound Toys, Slate, etc. I’m also very fond of Korneff plugins especially the Pawnshop Comp. I hope I answered your question if I left something out hit me back!
Your welcome Doc 😷
Thanks for your reply and info share on equipment you use.
@@BobbyHuff
I’m 7 seconds in and had to comment already! I figure this is another example of “Just because you CAN, doesn’t mean ya should” ala the Steve Perry pitch correction video, so... Dr. Bob holding back a laugh in the intro. Yep. This is gonna be fun!
You are exactly correct!!!! Have a laugh Michael!!!
Next, you should auto tune Marvin Gaye's vocals with T-Payne effect.
Terrible terribleness! That’s incredible how time correction ruined this song!
I've got the original on mental jukebox, so the time seemed off in the time-corrected version
Awesome channel man! Fascinating idea
I thought I would like the corrected version. I hate it.
Wow, that really does make a difference. This just shows that the greatest rhythm guitar player of all time certainly doesn't need to be time corrected.
As the saying goes, don't fix it if it ain't broke.
Couldn’t agree more Jimmy!!!
I just wanna know where you got the individual tracks to do this??
RESPECT TO GREAT MUSIC AND RESPECT TO YOU AND THE WAY YOU EXPLAIN THE PROCESS 👍✌❤🤘
The result is terrible, the info is excellent. You need to *play* music, not program it.
I hear ya!!!!!
That is astonishing. No wonder todays music has lost its heart and sole.
YES!!
@Jarred Kiser yeah for real..
Acting like a computer can't be programmed to have "human" mistakes. xD
It's interesting how happy and melodic it sounds when it's quantized -- not exactly the feel you want when you're talking about runnin' with the devil. This is the best example of feel vs. quantizing I've seen yet!
Thank you Ned. I appreciate you watching!
Where and how did you get these multi track stems for this session?
Wow, that lost its.... soul? power? swing? feeling? It sounded like a guitar school version. Not bad... just not VH
That sounded awful, flat and uninspired like a lot of modern mainstream rock.
Agreed!!
@@BobbyHuff Haha. As someone who stumbled on to this, I am glad you said this. This way I know it is in fun and not meant to be your masterpiece or something,.
@@mikeydoes its THEIR masterpiece.
@@BobbyHuff As mentioned, I stumbled upon this and have no idea about mixing, etc. What I am assuming you did was you did was made this into how the track would sound if it were mixed today? You may have mentioned that in your intro, but I skipped to the song.
Anyways. You did an awesome job. Sounds absolutely awesome. Listening to this was cool, but all it does is make me want to listen to the original. Lol.
@@mikeydoes great. Thanks for watching Mike and yes the original is much better.
Thank you for very simply explaining what's wrong with (many) modern music productions!
This is incredible thanks. Just wondering if it would be possible to break down in even further detail what exactly we lose when we quantise thusly. Please don’t hate me for asking.
I wouldn’t hate you for asking anything! I appreciate you watching. Working on a new video from this series and I’ll try to focus on that a little more. Great comment!
@@BobbyHuff Fantastic. Thanks!