1:23:26 to All Things Esch: the Woman is also referred to as a she in Revelation 12 and we all know this is not a literal one woman being but is said to be Israel. The Harlot is also said to be a she in Rev 17 & 18 but isn’t one person, it’s mystery Babylon, “that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth”.
Progressive revelation doesn't mean a later passage is allowed to contradict a clear statement of another. Eg Dan 12:1-13 says ALL the wonders which include the tribulation, the resurrection of both the righteous and the just and their eternal separation judgment, will be at the end of the times time half which is the end of the age and the 2nd coming. Therefore, based on this terminus, a later text shedding light on this same reality, cannot say the resurrection will be a 1000yrs after the end of the age. That is contradiction not complimentary or exapansion. Another example is 1 Cor 15:23-28, 50-54 says the coming of the Lord will bring the resurrection and this will be followed by the END WHich is when the kingdom will be given over to the father because Christ has abolished death as the last enemy which shows his reign began on his ascension until all his enemies have been abolished, has come to its end. Hence death swallowed up at his coming which is the removal of death forever from the face of the earth as Isa 25:1-10 says, is the judgment of death and hades as the last enemy seen in Rev 20"10-15. Hence the millenium by this is ends with the PAROUSIA that will bring the abolishing of death . Therefore Paul's teaching and that of Daniel are in agreement and so is that of John in Rev 20. Then finally John says the GWTJ which is the same judgment of Dan 7:17-27, 12:1-3, MATT 25:31-46 OCCurs when the heavens and earth flee away. Matt 24:36-42, 2 Peter 3:4-14, Rev 6"12-17, says this is the PAROUSIA and day of the lord. Hence since the GWTJ which is the Ned of the millenium is at the PAROUSIA on the day of the lord, it shows the millenium began before the PAROUSIA.which is when it ends Finally, Rev 11:15-19, says the PAROUSIA which is the 7th trumpet will bring the judgment of the dead which is the GWTJ mentioned in Dan 12 and Rev 20:10-15. Therefore it adds to the truth and shows the consistency of the word of God in their teaching that the end is the PAROUSIA at the end of the age . And 2 Tim 4:1-2, says the judgment of the dead will occur at the PAROUSIA of chrust. Hence we see the unity of the testimony of the scripture in both OT and NT that the end which is the time of the judgment of the dead is the PAROUSIA and this is when death will be swallowed up forever to remove it from all the Nations. Hence the millenium is the reign if Christ in the presence of his enemies until all are abolished at his coming which is the psalm 110 reign began in his ascension ( Mark 16:19, Heb 1,10:10-12, Eph 1:20-22) and will end at his PAROUSIA when he swallowed up death in victory.
Multiple Second Coming Visions in Revelation: (book not in chronological order ) Christ returns one time in the future. However, there are several different visions of His return shown from different perspectives in the Book of Revelation. Christ returns at the end of Revelation chapter 6, with signs in the sun, moon, and stars, as are found in the Olivet Discourse. Those at the end of the chapter are hiding from the wrath of the Lamb. Why would they be hiding if Christ is not present? The "kings", "captains", "might men", "free", and "bond" are also found in chapter 19 at the return of Christ. He returns at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, and the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:15-18. The beginning of chapter 12 is a history lesson containing the fall of Satan, and the birth and death of Christ, who is the seed promised to crush the head of Satan in Genesis 3:15. The Second Coming is found in the "harvest" of chapter 14, which is related to the parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew chapter 13. He comes as a thief at Armageddon, and we find the greatest earthquake in history in chapter 16. This occurs when the 7th angel pours out his vial. How powerful is an earthquake which moves islands and destroys the mountains? What is happening to the planet? He comes on a horse in chapter 19, right after the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. Chapter 20? Does He come with the fire, and the judgment of the dead at the end of chapter 20, which agrees with what Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and 2 Timothy 4:1? (The time of the judgment of the dead is also found in Revelation 11:18.) There are no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46. Why does an angel come down from heaven with a key to unlock the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:1-2, if the pit was not already locked before that time? Are there wicked angels in the pit in Rev. 9:11? If the beast "ascends" from the pit in Rev. chapter 11, where was the beast before that time? Does your view agree with Peter in 2 Pet. 2:4, and Jude in Jude 1:6, when they both said wicked angels are already in chains of darkness? Revelation 9:14 proves some of the angels were previously bound in some manner. Because the two witnesses were bodily resurrected from the dead in Revelation 11, the "first resurrection" at the beginning of Revelation 20 is not the first bodily resurrection in the book. The principle of "Recapitulation" means there are multiple visions of His return.
We reign with Christ NOW! 1 Peter 2:9
1:23:26 to All Things Esch: the Woman is also referred to as a she in Revelation 12 and we all know this is not a literal one woman being but is said to be Israel. The Harlot is also said to be a she in Rev 17 & 18 but isn’t one person, it’s mystery Babylon, “that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth”.
I can't follow the pre millennium guy at all.
Progressive revelation doesn't mean a later passage is allowed to contradict a clear statement of another. Eg Dan 12:1-13 says ALL the wonders which include the tribulation, the resurrection of both the righteous and the just and their eternal separation judgment, will be at the end of the times time half which is the end of the age and the 2nd coming. Therefore, based on this terminus, a later text shedding light on this same reality, cannot say the resurrection will be a 1000yrs after the end of the age. That is contradiction not complimentary or exapansion. Another example is 1 Cor 15:23-28, 50-54 says the coming of the Lord will bring the resurrection and this will be followed by the END WHich is when the kingdom will be given over to the father because Christ has abolished death as the last enemy which shows his reign began on his ascension until all his enemies have been abolished, has come to its end. Hence death swallowed up at his coming which is the removal of death forever from the face of the earth as Isa 25:1-10 says, is the judgment of death and hades as the last enemy seen in Rev 20"10-15. Hence the millenium by this is ends with the PAROUSIA that will bring the abolishing of death . Therefore Paul's teaching and that of Daniel are in agreement and so is that of John in Rev 20.
Then finally John says the GWTJ which is the same judgment of Dan 7:17-27, 12:1-3, MATT 25:31-46 OCCurs when the heavens and earth flee away. Matt 24:36-42, 2 Peter 3:4-14, Rev 6"12-17, says this is the PAROUSIA and day of the lord. Hence since the GWTJ which is the Ned of the millenium is at the PAROUSIA on the day of the lord, it shows the millenium began before the PAROUSIA.which is when it ends
Finally, Rev 11:15-19, says the PAROUSIA which is the 7th trumpet will bring the judgment of the dead which is the GWTJ mentioned in Dan 12 and Rev 20:10-15. Therefore it adds to the truth and shows the consistency of the word of God in their teaching that the end is the PAROUSIA at the end of the age .
And 2 Tim 4:1-2, says the judgment of the dead will occur at the PAROUSIA of chrust. Hence we see the unity of the testimony of the scripture in both OT and NT that the end which is the time of the judgment of the dead is the PAROUSIA and this is when death will be swallowed up forever to remove it from all the Nations.
Hence the millenium is the reign if Christ in the presence of his enemies until all are abolished at his coming which is the psalm 110 reign began in his ascension ( Mark 16:19, Heb 1,10:10-12, Eph 1:20-22) and will end at his PAROUSIA when he swallowed up death in victory.
Both debaters need to learn how to ask questions and not preach for an hour during cross examinations
Multiple Second Coming Visions in Revelation: (book not in chronological order )
Christ returns one time in the future. However, there are several different visions of His return shown from different perspectives in the Book of Revelation.
Christ returns at the end of Revelation chapter 6, with signs in the sun, moon, and stars, as are found in the Olivet Discourse.
Those at the end of the chapter are hiding from the wrath of the Lamb.
Why would they be hiding if Christ is not present?
The "kings", "captains", "might men", "free", and "bond" are also found in chapter 19 at the return of Christ.
He returns at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, and the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:15-18.
The beginning of chapter 12 is a history lesson containing the fall of Satan, and the birth and death of Christ, who is the seed promised to crush the head of Satan in Genesis 3:15.
The Second Coming is found in the "harvest" of chapter 14, which is related to the parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew chapter 13.
He comes as a thief at Armageddon, and we find the greatest earthquake in history in chapter 16. This occurs when the 7th angel pours out his vial. How powerful is an earthquake which moves islands and destroys the mountains? What is happening to the planet?
He comes on a horse in chapter 19, right after the Marriage Supper of the Lamb.
Chapter 20?
Does He come with the fire, and the judgment of the dead at the end of chapter 20, which agrees with what Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and 2 Timothy 4:1?
(The time of the judgment of the dead is also found in Revelation 11:18.)
There are no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46.
Why does an angel come down from heaven with a key to unlock the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:1-2, if the pit was not already locked before that time? Are there wicked angels in the pit in Rev. 9:11? If the beast "ascends" from the pit in Rev. chapter 11, where was the beast before that time?
Does your view agree with Peter in 2 Pet. 2:4, and Jude in Jude 1:6, when they both said wicked angels are already in chains of darkness?
Revelation 9:14 proves some of the angels were previously bound in some manner.
Because the two witnesses were bodily resurrected from the dead in Revelation 11, the "first resurrection" at the beginning of Revelation 20 is not the first bodily resurrection in the book.
The principle of "Recapitulation" means there are multiple visions of His return.
The question to ask here is: Did the first resurrection already happened? NO
The first resurrection is those who have died in Christ. "Raised to newness of life" as it were.