Dude, I was having trouble drawing out a multiscale. Just reminded me to start with the perp fret and I think it's solved my brain fog. Your videos are great. Thanks!
The free fretfind2d program does fanned fret positions for you. It will even create a PDF for you to print out. The one problem comes with printing it out as adobe reader defaults to fit to page which even though you were printing A4 on A4 still shrinks it. You have to change the print option in adobe reader to actual size. Accuracy of your printer and paper's ability to stretch are the other problems.
I’d never trust a print for fretting. The paper shrink with ink, hygrometry, and glue. Better trace the frets carefully on the fingerboard. Fretfind2d is great to find out which fan you want thought.
Very nicely done ! The first time I saw a fanned fret board was here on your channel and I thought that either there was a problem with the camera or it was an optical illusion ! I'm going to have to find a guitar with a fan fret board to see how it feels (out of curiosity of course). There is not a chance that I would attempt to create my own guitar with FFB with the tools and facilities available to me but it's very relaxing to see you doing it, thanks for sharing your techniques Ben !
I just mark the 12 fret and use a scale for the 1st string and a larger scale for the 6/7 or 8th string. Point of reference will be 12ve fret at all times. And thats it. Each string will have a different lenght, so adjust the intonation on each string with the 440 reference.
Awww don't you look such a young chap and such starch in your voice 😁 as per usual a great informative video, I was thinking of a jig based on the twelfth fret line fanning out to the nut and bridge using the centreline as a marked scale, (pause for breath) but I think that will probably have too much mechanical tolerance stack up, so I shall use your method, many thanks 👍
Excellent video. Okay, don't laugh, I build three and four string "cigar box" style guitars and fretting has been a steep learning curve for a guy who once had his high school geometry teacher convinced he was a dunce. Over the course of time I learned and started using the 12th root of 2 to layout and set fret positions when I went from slide necks to fretted necks so that I could use any scale length I needed to match the harmonics of the resonator I would be building around. But the one thing that always bothered me was the extreme discomfort of perpendicular frets (okay in addition to being a math dunce, I am also not a guitarist so I "play" just enough to set and adjust intonation, run the standard blues scales and - - - when no one is watching - - - chug out a terrible rendition of "I Am A Man") to double check the set ups and listen for any fret buzz or setup issues. But even on the narrow gauge necks perpendicular frets are just awful so I stumbled across fanned frets by accident when I watched a guy playing an eight string guitar and the only perpendicular fret was the 12th and my eye instantly told me the neck was far more ergonomic than a standard neck, and by gosh if he hadn't found someway to tune that beast. I had it in my mind the solution was to set the midline and then use tangents based on a fixed point set off the 12th fret and let the frets "set" naturally or to set the nut and bridge angles off that tangent and calculate the fret positions for each string, so this video solves a math problem I was going to have to spend hours solving. HOWEVER, in your opinion what is the best or most comfortable scale length difference between low E and high E? For instance I stay with longer scales to adjust the voicing of my small resonators down an octave which cause the ergonomics issue, if I scale down say dulcimer or lower scale lengths the perpendicular frets are not near so intolerable but once you are at 25" and greater scale lengths the wrist strain in the low register is awkward and uncomfortable but the voicing better for most blues and blues/rock rhythm lines.
Ok, so indeed do this the way Ben has demonstrated. I rather arrogantly thought, "Hey, I'll cut the nut angle first and glue the fret board on, before I do anything else." The angle was correct (triple checked), but the board shifted slightly off of the body end center line on the neck blank when I clamped it for gluing. I didn't realize this immediately, and the treble side scale length kept refusing to properly line up at fret 12 as it should have. Treble side scale length ended up increasing by nearly 3mm. Avoid stupid mistakes. Lay out before gluing.
Great job, but how do you know the string spacing at the 12 fret ? My initial thought was you would use the full scale length and measure from the bridge (or bridges, since many fanned fret guitars have single string bridges), depending on the space between each saddle. Since your 12th fret is right in the middle and perpendicular, I suppose it’s not too hard to find out, but if you choose another fret for the perpendicular one, I guess it might be slightly harder, isn’t it ?
Exactly, if you have a fixed spacing it is easy, most of the time with a build like this I have full scale plans drawn up and just use that to find my measurements..
hmmmm I actually 0 the 9th... for barritone 7 (25.5-27.67)... and actually used a 6" digital caliper (LOL)... used a complex matrix to verify fret-to-fret positions ...worked, but ended up just getting a 24" caliper :D (one digital and one vernier)
hey man in the minute 9:19, how do you determine the string spacing in the twelve fret??? you use the ruler??? would be awesome if you can explaine me, great videos keep on going.
1:41 for me it turns out the fanned frets actually are problematic for my wrist at the lowest frets. imagine doing a barre chord at the 1st fret. with fanned frets ret it's much more uncomfortable because you have to twist your wrist so much more (although *most* of my discomfort might stem from it being an 8 string). it's definitely more ergonomic at higher frets but i didnt actually consider it might be less comfortable at lower frets
Who is the diffrent, for the wide from the neck? By an shortscale bass, with the wide, 31 inch, is the first fret on the 7th fret, or on an other fret?
I’m pretty sure that Strandberg start with a perpendicular nut and zero fret and everything else fans from there. Is that correct? Seems like an easy way to do it.
It's just part of the planning. You decide what fret you want to be perpendicular to the center line and measure everything else off that fret, just like what was done in the video. Guitars with this type of fingerboard intonate just fine. It doesn't matter what combination of scale lengths you use. Just like with a "normal" guitar, as long as the bridge is placed n the proper place, it'll intonate.
I know this whole operation is about doing it the traditional way, but I would just like to point out that this would be so much easier on a CNC machine like the X-Carve.
Fuck me. Maybe I'm dumb but this is the first tutorial where I'm completely lost. I think I'm missing some basic terminology. How do you decide your different scale lengths? - because it's that that gives you the nut angle, correct? Is it possible to do it the other way around and have an angled saddle but a square nut?
you can decide on scale length yourself, for example you can have 24 7/8 (~630mm used in taylor GC series) or 25.4 ( ~645mm used in martin om) usually anything in between 630 and 650 mm is used for guitar. Then you have to decide which fret you want to be parallel ( at 90 deg to fret board) in this video 12th fret was used but if you look at guitar made by greenfield for example his parallel fret is 7th or 8th i'm not exactly sure, also choosing which fret you want parallel will change the angle of nut (for example you can choose fret 0 to be parallel meaning parallel nut). Check out tool called FindFret2D its great web app which also visualises how fretboard would look like. Hope that helps Rafal
I would have thought the 12 fret the reason why that is because it's further away if you started from the other end the distance couldn't throw it out if it's only a 15 thousands of a millimetre out at the bottom it will be a lot more at the top for the reasons you stated comfortability accuracy. You should use the hardest pencil something like a 3h or Carpenters pencil sharpened as a chisel. But really the marks would be better put in with the scalpel first. Using a protractor is not very accurate an engineering Square would be better
From 9:40 on, if you base your measurements on the outer strings, unless I am completely wrong-thinking this, all the measurements will be too close together because your ruler is at an angle to the centerline of the fretboard. You need to measure 36.48mm on the centerline and then strike a line perpendicular to that out to the bass-string line. The point where this perpendicular crosses the string line constitutes one reference point for striking your fret angle.
wrong, then it will drift over the length and get a wrong scale. It's the string that you are measuring and given the diff between nut and bridge they are not the same with the center line.... You could argue that that 12th fret might move a little when reverse measuring from the nut since it was originally marked out on the center line (and that might have contributed to that one fret position being off), but to measure out the scale on the center line for a multi scale is wrong.... just my 2c :)
Weird... Your explanation seems overly complicated and limited.... From my point of view it's just some simple geometry. I understand that not everybody is into maths but I think that apart from this tutorial people should at least try thinking about it in terms of geometry and maths. What do You think?
Yeah, all the great information he is providing as he describes what he is doing and why . . . a totally silent video of him marking and laying out a fret board would be SO much better . . . (rolling eyes)
Dude, I was having trouble drawing out a multiscale. Just reminded me to start with the perp fret and I think it's solved my brain fog. Your videos are great. Thanks!
After watching you use yours, I went out and bought one of those awesome Incra Rules protractors. It's an amazing little thing.
The free fretfind2d program does fanned fret positions for you. It will even create a PDF for you to print out. The one problem comes with printing it out as adobe reader defaults to fit to page which even though you were printing A4 on A4 still shrinks it. You have to change the print option in adobe reader to actual size. Accuracy of your printer and paper's ability to stretch are the other problems.
great resource!
I’d never trust a print for fretting. The paper shrink with ink, hygrometry, and glue. Better trace the frets carefully on the fingerboard. Fretfind2d is great to find out which fan you want thought.
WHERE IS THAT FANNED FRET MARKING GAUGE YOU SAID YOU WOULD HAVE FOR SALE?
Very nicely done !
The first time I saw a fanned fret board was here on your channel and I thought that either there was a problem with the camera or it was an optical illusion !
I'm going to have to find a guitar with a fan fret board to see how it feels (out of curiosity of course). There is not a chance that I would attempt to create my own guitar with FFB with the tools and facilities available to me but it's very relaxing to see you doing it, thanks for sharing your techniques Ben !
Thanks for posting. This will help when installing frets on the renaissance bandora I'm building. But it's in meantone temperament!
Thank you for the lesson! I am Grateful for your service to teach!
I just mark the 12 fret and use a scale for the 1st string and a larger scale for the 6/7 or 8th string. Point of reference will be 12ve fret at all times. And thats it. Each string will have a different lenght, so adjust the intonation on each string with the 440 reference.
Great video mate! This is super helpful. Keep up the great work 🤘
Awww don't you look such a young chap and such starch in your voice 😁 as per usual a great informative video, I was thinking of a jig based on the twelfth fret line fanning out to the nut and bridge using the centreline as a marked scale, (pause for breath) but I think that will probably have too much mechanical tolerance stack up, so I shall use your method, many thanks 👍
Excellent video. Okay, don't laugh, I build three and four string "cigar box" style guitars and fretting has been a steep learning curve for a guy who once had his high school geometry teacher convinced he was a dunce. Over the course of time I learned and started using the 12th root of 2 to layout and set fret positions when I went from slide necks to fretted necks so that I could use any scale length I needed to match the harmonics of the resonator I would be building around. But the one thing that always bothered me was the extreme discomfort of perpendicular frets (okay in addition to being a math dunce, I am also not a guitarist so I "play" just enough to set and adjust intonation, run the standard blues scales and - - - when no one is watching - - - chug out a terrible rendition of "I Am A Man") to double check the set ups and listen for any fret buzz or setup issues. But even on the narrow gauge necks perpendicular frets are just awful so I stumbled across fanned frets by accident when I watched a guy playing an eight string guitar and the only perpendicular fret was the 12th and my eye instantly told me the neck was far more ergonomic than a standard neck, and by gosh if he hadn't found someway to tune that beast. I had it in my mind the solution was to set the midline and then use tangents based on a fixed point set off the 12th fret and let the frets "set" naturally or to set the nut and bridge angles off that tangent and calculate the fret positions for each string, so this video solves a math problem I was going to have to spend hours solving. HOWEVER, in your opinion what is the best or most comfortable scale length difference between low E and high E? For instance I stay with longer scales to adjust the voicing of my small resonators down an octave which cause the ergonomics issue, if I scale down say dulcimer or lower scale lengths the perpendicular frets are not near so intolerable but once you are at 25" and greater scale lengths the wrist strain in the low register is awkward and uncomfortable but the voicing better for most blues and blues/rock rhythm lines.
Ok, so indeed do this the way Ben has demonstrated. I rather arrogantly thought, "Hey, I'll cut the nut angle first and glue the fret board on, before I do anything else." The angle was correct (triple checked), but the board shifted slightly off of the body end center line on the neck blank when I clamped it for gluing. I didn't realize this immediately, and the treble side scale length kept refusing to properly line up at fret 12 as it should have. Treble side scale length ended up increasing by nearly 3mm. Avoid stupid mistakes. Lay out before gluing.
Screwing that up and finding out only when you adjust intonation would be a glorious oh-shit-moment :-) One day I will try that though.
I don't understand the displacment of the fret when using a fret calculator can someone explain plz
Great job, but how do you know the string spacing at the 12 fret ? My initial thought was you would use the full scale length and measure from the bridge (or bridges, since many fanned fret guitars have single string bridges), depending on the space between each saddle. Since your 12th fret is right in the middle and perpendicular, I suppose it’s not too hard to find out, but if you choose another fret for the perpendicular one, I guess it might be slightly harder, isn’t it ?
Exactly, if you have a fixed spacing it is easy, most of the time with a build like this I have full scale plans drawn up and just use that to find my measurements..
hmmmm I actually 0 the 9th... for barritone 7 (25.5-27.67)... and actually used a 6" digital caliper (LOL)... used a complex matrix to verify fret-to-fret positions ...worked, but ended up just getting a 24" caliper :D (one digital and one vernier)
hey man in the minute 9:19, how do you determine the string spacing in the twelve fret??? you use the ruler??? would be awesome if you can explaine me, great videos keep on going.
you use the bridge
There is a formula you can use
1:41 for me it turns out the fanned frets actually are problematic for my wrist at the lowest frets. imagine doing a barre chord at the 1st fret. with fanned frets ret it's much more uncomfortable because you have to twist your wrist so much more (although *most* of my discomfort might stem from it being an 8 string). it's definitely more ergonomic at higher frets but i didnt actually consider it might be less comfortable at lower frets
that fretboard blank is beautiful, what kind of wood is that?
Who is the diffrent, for the wide from the neck?
By an shortscale bass, with the wide, 31 inch, is the first fret on the 7th fret, or on an other fret?
thank you. Ben you are great
Ben your friggen incredible!
Did you radius the fretboard before all of this?
yes, compound in fact, Ben said so about 3:15
I’m pretty sure that Strandberg start with a perpendicular nut and zero fret and everything else fans from there. Is that correct? Seems like an easy way to do it.
Strandberg : Neutral fret: 0 (6-string) | 10 (7-string) | 7 (8-string)
I don't understand how it all goes angled from the beginning but still meets at the 12th. Do these intonate proper to begin with?
It's just part of the planning. You decide what fret you want to be perpendicular to the center line and measure everything else off that fret, just like what was done in the video.
Guitars with this type of fingerboard intonate just fine. It doesn't matter what combination of scale lengths you use. Just like with a "normal" guitar, as long as the bridge is placed n the proper place, it'll intonate.
What App are you using?
Sir, may you teach me to make guiter
what´s the book and the app name, some body knows?
Building Electric Guitars (Koch Martin), Koch Verlag 2001?
Hi Ben, can you make me a custom fanned fret telecaster neck?
Hello, question the rule to use is in centimeters or inches? thanks
+Von Mozz Late to reply, but it doesn't matter. As long as it's accurate.
...and which one goes to second decimal or third imperial? :)
Ben please "USE A WHITE PENCIL " so we can see it as well.
I can't believe he diddnt do that
Does this work on bass?
Yes, it does, although the horizontal fret tends to be at the 7th fret or so on a bass build. Everything else is the same.. B
@@CrimsonCustomGuitars thank you so much
So, do you think the 12th fret should be the one perpendicular on the axe of the FB, or the first fret?...
I think the 12 fret being perpendicular to the neck is the correct way to do it.
From strandbergguitars.com : Neutral fret: 0 (6-string) | 10 (7-string) | 7 (8-string)
Strandberg : Neutral fret: 0 (6-string) | 10 (7-string) | 7 (8-string)
What is the book you use?
Building electric guitars by Martin Koch
Is that wenge? Looks great!
jonlag3000 Buck Squires it is Wenge indeed.. apart from the toxic-as-all-hell splinters I do live this wood!
Invest in a contrasting pencil.
I know this whole operation is about doing it the traditional way, but I would just like to point out that this would be so much easier on a CNC machine like the X-Carve.
Fuck me. Maybe I'm dumb but this is the first tutorial where I'm completely lost. I think I'm missing some basic terminology.
How do you decide your different scale lengths? - because it's that that gives you the nut angle, correct? Is it possible to do it the other way around and have an angled saddle but a square nut?
you can decide on scale length yourself, for example you can have 24 7/8 (~630mm used in taylor GC series) or 25.4 ( ~645mm used in martin om) usually anything in between 630 and 650 mm is used for guitar. Then you have to decide which fret you want to be parallel ( at 90 deg to fret board) in this video 12th fret was used but if you look at guitar made by greenfield for example his parallel fret is 7th or 8th i'm not exactly sure, also choosing which fret you want parallel will change the angle of nut (for example you can choose fret 0 to be parallel meaning parallel nut). Check out tool called FindFret2D its great web app which also visualises how fretboard would look like. Hope that helps
Rafal
Chosing scale length is all just personal preference. Your choice
I would have thought the 12 fret the reason why that is because it's further away if you started from the other end the distance couldn't throw it out if it's only a 15 thousands of a millimetre out at the bottom it will be a lot more at the top for the reasons you stated comfortability accuracy.
You should use the hardest pencil something like a 3h or Carpenters pencil sharpened as a chisel. But really the marks would be better put in with the scalpel first.
Using a protractor is not very accurate an engineering Square would be better
thank u very well but
6 ADS in this video
thank you for letting me know, I've manually deleted one of the automatically added breaks.. B
fretfind2d is a grat aplication for that purpose...you may know it...
From 9:40 on, if you base your measurements on the outer strings, unless I am completely wrong-thinking this, all the measurements will be too close together because your ruler is at an angle to the centerline of the fretboard. You need to measure 36.48mm on the centerline and then strike a line perpendicular to that out to the bass-string line. The point where this perpendicular crosses the string line constitutes one reference point for striking your fret angle.
wrong, then it will drift over the length and get a wrong scale. It's the string that you are measuring and given the diff between nut and bridge they are not the same with the center line.... You could argue that that 12th fret might move a little when reverse measuring from the nut since it was originally marked out on the center line (and that might have contributed to that one fret position being off), but to measure out the scale on the center line for a multi scale is wrong.... just my 2c :)
ok that's enough ' far too skillful ...
NICE!
Is this patented by Novak or are you free sell these guitars without any problems?
Novak's patent is over as u.s. patents only last 15 or so years
Al fanned fret is haundredsnof years old and u.s. parents are only valid in u.s.
woo hoo! first view!
Weird... Your explanation seems overly complicated and limited.... From my point of view it's just some simple geometry. I understand that not everybody is into maths but I think that apart from this tutorial people should at least try thinking about it in terms of geometry and maths. What do You think?
This guy just talks too much!
Yeah, all the great information he is providing as he describes what he is doing and why . . . a totally silent video of him marking and laying out a fret board would be SO much better . . . (rolling eyes)