No worries Matt. That yelling is only minor. You'll hear more harsher commentary during the actual course of fire. Engage the same target twice and see what I mean. 🤣👍 in all seriousness, Ray is an outstanding wind whisperer and great teammate
X-Ring you are an absolute life saver!!! I couldn't figure out what variables i possibly entered wrong to make both my ballistic calculators give false data and just had another miserable match with only 25% of the target ranges working out enough to scrape a hit but i kept track of the ones that did and just retired this method and it matches up with my hits and shows almost a full mil off on my misses so thank you!!!
Another great video 👍. Best of luck this weekend fellas, go get em . Matty when the pressures on during the match listen carefully and you’ll be sweet .
very informative I’ve often wondered how you could back up to true your muzzle velocity especially with me shooting a 260 thank you for this very informative video I learned quite a bit
Excellent video! Looks like I'll be trying this out later this week. We have some unseasonably warm weather coming up the next few days here in MI so I'm going to head up to my favorite range that goes out to 1,054 yds and run my 6 ARC. (great cartridge for gas gun)
Another excellent video and nice, clear delivery! I noticed at 8:09 that you're using a custom curve. I do the same and find it much easier to follow your process. On target at 1,000; on target all the way in from there. Good luck on the match!
Thanks fer sharing.you would think a kestrol calculator w/all the correct input should calculate closer than having to just create/true velocity, strelok app. seems to get as close when I have compared both, minus the constant weather update.Thanks again, appreciate your videos & REALLY enjoy your match videos aswell !!
I wish I could spend a day with a shooter like you. I’ve had no training and no one to help me aside from what I’ve learned from the UA-cam experts like you, Rex, erik cortina etc… but I went from knowing nothing to building my own and learning how to use my reticles for moa and mil. hopefully someday I’ll get lucky👍 🤞
Thanks Green Street and thanks for watching and commenting. UA-cam is a very powerful platform for knowledge. As long as you keep watching the guys that talk about it AND do it you should get reliable and great information. Thanks again and have a great week.
nice, am running my atx the same except a TT on this rifle due to its ease of calibration (same on my ASR). Man i am now wanting a wilcox ... am running a 6cm (115 dtacs ) about 2900 ... running a dominus cb can (compared to my gen 1 ultras its quiter and min POA change ... 30 cal).
Nice! We have the same taste in setups. My Dominus can is on the Cobalt that Matt is using for the match. I really like the Dominus as well. Stay tuned for some cool new releases coming soon from them in the near future. Don’t ask me how I know 😃
I only have access to 600 yards for practice, but I true my 4DOF kestrel to a water line using their Axial form factor and then set up a 1 MOA Diamond to confirm data. Seems to get me on target at 1,000 but sure as hell would be nice to have access to 1,000 yard range for practice
Thanks for the video . Is this a purchased CDM profile that you used ? And say you true your muzzle velocity and your profile is perfect for that area , and you travel to Florida and enter in new weather info . Will it give you correct dopes for florida ? Also is that the 5700x ?
Thank you for the video. I shoot there all the time . Question; what if I did everything you did here but instead of using the muscle velocity calibration option, I simply changed my velocity until the range card lined up at 1000?
Love the Video Ray, But how did you Swap barrel and bullets and find that best load. I know you 1moa is good enough, but i have found that when swapping bullets i have battle to find best load? Any chance of a video finding best load fast.
This is a great video. I have always just swaged it. What model Kestrel Meter are you using, and if I am only shooting out to 1000 yds what model do I need? Thanks and I’ve been watching/subscribed to your channel for a few months now and have learned a lot. I used to shoot a little in NRA Matches and got married and stopped. I am planning on getting back into it though, I just ordered the new Seekins Precision Havak HIT Rifle in .308 with a 6mm Creedmoor barrel as well. I ordered both barrels with muzzle brakes too. I am putting a Athlon Midas 5-25x56 with the APRS6 retical on it. From what Seekins told me it’ll probably be around the first of April before it ships. Hopefully it’ll be as good as they say it is.
What did you use to messure VO from the beginning? And do you true velocity because the messurement is off from the beginning? And why not true BC if you know the VO?
Once again, a fantastic video, Ray!.... Would a temp variation of 20-25 degrees be automatically considered by a Kestrel, and your trued mils modified accordingly in the Kestrel w/o having to re-true again? Or would you just have to true it again under those significantly new temp conditions?
That’s the beauty of the Kestrel . Once the rifle profile is setup, it will take in all external factors to the best of it ability and will get you pretty dang near perfect. The more temperature and speed inputs you can put in, the better it will perform for you.
Do you just leave the BC as whatever the bullet is listed as? I haven't messed with truing MV because I have a known velocity using a magnetospeed. I corrected my BC at 1000 since I was shooting incredibly low and have a G7 BC of .282 for 140 ELD-Ms. If I corrected MV and not the BC, I'm guessing it'd correct to significantly slower than what I am reading off the chrono.
Great question Deerslayer. So, I forgot to mention that the orginal muzzle velocity that was on the Kestrel was from a 5 shot average from a Magnetospeed as well. While you can definitely true the BC this method works well enough in most instances as long as you can get within the “truing zone”.
Love your videos, and appreciate all the hard work behind the scenes to get them done. Ive had some issues of late, so going over a few older MV Cal videos, hence the new comment on your older video. My question. Load a batch of 200 rounds, and go zero, get MV (Lar Radar at 2690ft/s) and true them to them to the gun, (Cal MV ends up at 2710 ft/s) like you have done and we good to go Then we load another batch 1 month later, and the Lab Radar MV is now 2670 (colder day) do we need to True the data again.. so before every match/range day? Does this have to be done every match???
Great question and thank for watching. If you keep your Kestrel environment on lock and take a live reading before every stage, it should take into account the changes in velocity based on current environmentals. It won’t be perfect but it will be close. Another key thing is anytime you can get big swings in temperature you should record them in the kestrel app. Temp / velocity card at the bottom of the profile. This will help the program learn the temp stability of the powder. This is what I understand from using the Kestrel. 👍🏼 Thanks for watching.
I was the 700th like, great video very informative! When I run my data my Cal MV value is 1177 yds does that mean I have to shoot at that distance or within 10% of that which is 1060 yds? because I saw you shooting at 1002 yds when your Cal MV was 1283 yds
Hey Spartan! I was on the initial release and have had this one for about a month now. This one also has a some prototype stuff that hasn’t been released just yet. Congrats on your AT-X! You will really like it.
Out here in Colorado I'm always getting data showing to hold more then I need from 800 out to 1000. I true with the Strelok app but then within 800 everything is off. Any suggestions?
That’s quite common with Strelok. You can also true out your BC on Strelok up at the top of the truing tab. See if you can make your curve line up perfectly using the BC for the farther distances.
Awesome video....my question....I shoot a 6.5 Creedmoor out to about 950 yards at my local range. If I am not shooting past that distance and past the supersonic range, do I need to true the rifle at all? Thank you...hopefully not a silly question.
Do you have a steel target at 950? If so, repaint it in white before you begin. Also spray a thin horizontal line on the target using another light color. (Waterline) Dial what your Kestrel recommends for 950 and note the impacts. You should be able to see it with a decent spotting scope or possibly your riflescope. Your goal is to aim at the waterline. If impacts are lower or higher then true out based on what it should be. You should do fine with that. 👍🏼
Ray on the speed drop and Tangent limitation just dial down the tenth and subtract the whole number in your head. Not quite a BDC reticle but still pretty quick. So if your Speed drop is maybe 3.2 on a 6CM dial down .2 then just subtract the 3 from the yardage. 530 yards would become a 2.3 hold as an example. Oh an the flyer for the Coleman’s match now says targets 50-1200 Meters. Apparently no mile shots now.
Also if you Speed drop is something like 2.8 and you scope only has .5 down then just dial UP .2 and still subtract 3. I can’t do the tenths quickly in my head but can do the whole numbers.
Thanks Makev and great comment. While you can definitely do that, it can become very difficult to remember all of the addition and subtraction during a higher stress situation. For me anyways.
No! Absolutely not Erich. Since you are probably or at least “should be “ shooting subsonic ammunition you need to do MV truing out to 100 or so, then use DSF for all other distances like 200,300 and 400. This will set known truing points within the curve.
You can of course, however your ballistic curve might not line up exactly. This is why you true your MV to match the curve better. You could also adjust BC to do that as well. 👍🏼
The whole debate on how to true has been debated for a long time. BC changes with speed. So I always adjusted MV from 5-600 yards, and rest tweak the BC to 1000. But i tried this method too and honestly it works too. However if you have a cartridge with a bullet with a high BC but not enough “ass” to get that bullet out there, your not getting that high BC like you thought.
Shouldn’t you true your BC instead of MV? MV can be measured, so it seems that data should be input directly. However BC is something we get from either the bullet manufacturer or from Brian Litz’s published bullet data, so it’s not something we can actually measure. With a trued BC, any changes in MV (due to a change in load, temperature, etc) could be input into the ballistic app and should translate. By having a “trued” MV, it’s more difficult to make a MV change in the app because the “trued” number in the app isn’t actual MV. Truing MV takes a measurable variable and turns it into an extrapolated value thereby muddying the water.
Hi there nice video look im from Argentina i do have a tikka t3 bull barrel in 6.5 creedmore I did not sight in the rifle just yet . I do planing to use the hornary Eld in 147 gr . Can you please send me you drop compesasion for the same ammo that you already have . That will help me to get started for my rifle . Because the ammo cost down here and hard to find i will send you my email . I aways can pay you back wirh a red stag hunt lol if you decide to came down for it
Maybe when you say White 6, shooter should respond: White 6? communication. When you said white 6, did you mean white 6? With a woman it's different. Lol! She'll shoot Blue 6, just because you being a man, said white 6. Christ bless!
New to long range shooting around 10months in and this channel has helped me drastically. I appreciate the content.
My pleasure and thank you for watching.
Great video Ray! I felt like such an idiot once I remembered the range has three colored lanes. Definitely need to turn my listening ears on
No worries Matt. That yelling is only minor. You'll hear more harsher commentary during the actual course of fire. Engage the same target twice and see what I mean. 🤣👍 in all seriousness, Ray is an outstanding wind whisperer and great teammate
LOL! He doesn’t even know what he is in for! 🤣
X-Ring you are an absolute life saver!!! I couldn't figure out what variables i possibly entered wrong to make both my ballistic calculators give false data and just had another miserable match with only 25% of the target ranges working out enough to scrape a hit but i kept track of the ones that did and just retired this method and it matches up with my hits and shows almost a full mil off on my misses so thank you!!!
My pleasure thank you for watching the channel.
Another great video 👍. Best of luck this weekend fellas, go get em . Matty when the pressures on during the match listen carefully and you’ll be sweet .
very informative I’ve often wondered how you could back up to true your muzzle velocity especially with me shooting a 260 thank you for this very informative video I learned quite a bit
This was much better than what Kestrel put out on their channel and easier to follow along to. Had to rewind only a couple of times
Excellent video! Looks like I'll be trying this out later this week. We have some unseasonably warm weather coming up the next few days here in MI so I'm going to head up to my favorite range that goes out to 1,054 yds and run my 6 ARC. (great cartridge for gas gun)
Great info! Thank you for sharing. And Thank you Eagle Eye for linking to this video!!
Thanks for the info. Good luck this weekend.
Awesome Video Ray!
Perfect timing for me , just got my kestrel and this video keeps the truing process simple ....
That was some good stuff... Good luck in Utah guys.
As always good vid and information as well wish you both good luck and have fun I'm in Utah as well but to many people nowadays
Gonna go try this out tomorrow! My AT in 6.5 was about 3 moa(i know...) low at 850 and i found your video to help. Thanks!
Dope! Good intel gents and beyond, much appreciated
Excellent information thank you
Great video thanks for info! Good luck shooting
Great info and video guys- thx :)
Good to know! Thanks for sharing!
Gear appears to be dialed in. So good luck on the match guys. And I like the new intro and exit graphics Ray.
Thanks Snakeman. I have been playing around with these intros. I have a really good final one in the works. Thanks for watching.
Another excellent video and nice, clear delivery! I noticed at 8:09 that you're using a custom curve. I do the same and find it much easier to follow your process. On target at 1,000; on target all the way in from there. Good luck on the match!
Thanks 4gunguy and thanks for watching. It works well enough for sure .
Thanks fer sharing.you would think a kestrol calculator w/all the correct input should calculate closer than having to just create/true velocity, strelok app. seems to get as close when I have compared both, minus the constant weather update.Thanks again, appreciate your videos & REALLY enjoy your match videos aswell !!
Thanks for the video. I don't have a Kestrel yet, but it's on the list. Good luck at the match. Be Safe.
Thanks Tim! The Kestrel is a must have but always remember to keep a hard data book for your rifle.
Ray. You talked to the kid like a frustrated father 🤣
The range is impressive. I wish we had something like that here, even if 100 miles away.
I wish I could spend a day with a shooter like you. I’ve had no training and no one to help me aside from what I’ve learned from the UA-cam experts like you, Rex, erik cortina etc… but I went from knowing nothing to building my own and learning how to use my reticles for moa and mil. hopefully someday I’ll get lucky👍 🤞
Thanks Green Street and thanks for watching and commenting. UA-cam is a very powerful platform for knowledge. As long as you keep watching the guys that talk about it AND do it you should get reliable and great information. Thanks again and have a great week.
Thank you sir!
nice, am running my atx the same except a TT on this rifle due to its ease of calibration (same on my ASR). Man i am now wanting a wilcox ... am running a 6cm (115 dtacs ) about 2900 ... running a dominus cb can (compared to my gen 1 ultras its quiter and min POA change ... 30 cal).
Nice! We have the same taste in setups. My Dominus can is on the Cobalt that Matt is using for the match. I really like the Dominus as well. Stay tuned for some cool new releases coming soon from them in the near future. Don’t ask me how I know 😃
I only have access to 600 yards for practice, but I true my 4DOF kestrel to a water line using their Axial form factor and then set up a 1 MOA Diamond to confirm data. Seems to get me on target at 1,000 but sure as hell would be nice to have access to 1,000 yard range for practice
Thanks for the video . Is this a purchased CDM profile that you used ? And say you true your muzzle velocity and your profile is perfect for that area , and you travel to Florida and enter in new weather info . Will it give you correct dopes for florida ? Also is that the 5700x ?
Thank you for the video. I shoot there all the time . Question; what if I did everything you did here but instead of using the muscle velocity calibration option, I simply changed my velocity until the range card lined up at 1000?
Love the Video Ray, But how did you Swap barrel and bullets and find that best load. I know you 1moa is good enough, but i have found that when swapping bullets i have battle to find best load? Any chance of a video finding best load fast.
Good words here guys. Thanks!!
This is a great video. I have always just swaged it. What model Kestrel Meter are you using, and if I am only shooting out to 1000 yds what model do I need? Thanks and I’ve been watching/subscribed to your channel for a few months now and have learned a lot. I used to shoot a little in NRA Matches and got married and stopped. I am planning on getting back into it though, I just ordered the new Seekins Precision Havak HIT Rifle in .308 with a 6mm Creedmoor barrel as well. I ordered both barrels with muzzle brakes too. I am putting a Athlon Midas 5-25x56 with the APRS6 retical on it. From what Seekins told me it’ll probably be around the first of April before it ships. Hopefully it’ll be as good as they say it is.
5700 Elite ballistik .
Thanks Ray
What did you use to messure VO from the beginning?
And do you true velocity because the messurement is off from the beginning?
And why not true BC if you know the VO?
Once again, a fantastic video, Ray!.... Would a temp variation of 20-25 degrees be automatically considered by a Kestrel, and your trued mils modified accordingly in the Kestrel w/o having to re-true again? Or would you just have to true it again under those significantly new temp conditions?
That’s the beauty of the Kestrel . Once the rifle profile is setup, it will take in all external factors to the best of it ability and will get you pretty dang near perfect.
The more temperature and speed inputs you can put in, the better it will perform for you.
That sure fire shroud looks like you would have to remove the flip cap in order to use it. Is that true?
Do you just leave the BC as whatever the bullet is listed as? I haven't messed with truing MV because I have a known velocity using a magnetospeed. I corrected my BC at 1000 since I was shooting incredibly low and have a G7 BC of .282 for 140 ELD-Ms. If I corrected MV and not the BC, I'm guessing it'd correct to significantly slower than what I am reading off the chrono.
Great question Deerslayer. So, I forgot to mention that the orginal muzzle velocity that was on the Kestrel was from a 5 shot average from a Magnetospeed as well. While you can definitely true the BC this method works well enough in most instances as long as you can get within the “truing zone”.
I am thinking about re barreling my tikka to 1 in 9 twist 5r 25 inch tube in 300 winmag. Hate my factory 1 in 11 twist
Love your videos, and appreciate all the hard work behind the scenes to get them done. Ive had some issues of late, so going over a few older MV Cal videos, hence the new comment on your older video.
My question. Load a batch of 200 rounds, and go zero, get MV (Lar Radar at 2690ft/s) and true them to them to the gun, (Cal MV ends up at 2710 ft/s) like you have done and we good to go
Then we load another batch 1 month later, and the Lab Radar MV is now 2670 (colder day) do we need to True the data again.. so before every match/range day?
Does this have to be done every match???
Great question and thank for watching. If you keep your Kestrel environment on lock and take a live reading before every stage, it should take into account the changes in velocity based on current environmentals. It won’t be perfect but it will be close. Another key thing is anytime you can get big swings in temperature you should record them in the kestrel app. Temp / velocity card at the bottom of the profile. This will help the program learn the temp stability of the powder.
This is what I understand from using the Kestrel. 👍🏼
Thanks for watching.
I was the 700th like, great video very informative! When I run my data my Cal MV value is 1177 yds does that mean I have to shoot at that distance or within 10% of that which is 1060 yds? because I saw you shooting at 1002 yds when your Cal MV was 1283 yds
I didn’t know the tan AT-X was out yet, here in Australia we’ve been a bit delayed, just picked up my red one 3 days ago
Hey Spartan! I was on the initial release and have had this one for about a month now. This one also has a some prototype stuff that hasn’t been released just yet. Congrats on your AT-X! You will really like it.
@@XRING cheers mate, loving it so far, got my finale on the 4th so I’ll put it through its paces for sure
I want to get into this
Out here in Colorado I'm always getting data showing to hold more then I need from 800 out to 1000. I true with the Strelok app but then within 800 everything is off. Any suggestions?
That’s quite common with Strelok.
You can also true out your BC on Strelok up at the top of the truing tab. See if you can make your curve line up perfectly using the BC for the farther distances.
Good luck gentlemen. Have a good week.
Thanks Joaquin!
Awesome video....my question....I shoot a 6.5 Creedmoor out to about 950 yards at my local range. If I am not shooting past that distance and past the supersonic range, do I need to true the rifle at all? Thank you...hopefully not a silly question.
Yes,sometimes the data doesn’t line up exactly. If you could verify at 950 that would be a good distance to do that. 👍🏼
@@XRING Thank you so much...I guess I need to find a competent spotter or else this will be tricky to do shooting alone!
Do you have a steel target at 950? If so, repaint it in white before you begin. Also spray a thin horizontal line on the target using another light color. (Waterline)
Dial what your Kestrel recommends for 950 and note the impacts. You should be able to see it with a decent spotting scope or possibly your riflescope. Your goal is to aim at the waterline. If impacts are lower or higher then true out based on what it should be.
You should do fine with that. 👍🏼
Does the kestrel know if you are shooting on an incline slope 0-15° or 15-30+????
It can but you have to input that into information into the solver.👍🏼
Ray on the speed drop and Tangent limitation just dial down the tenth and subtract the whole number in your head. Not quite a BDC reticle but still pretty quick. So if your Speed drop is maybe 3.2 on a 6CM dial down .2 then just subtract the 3 from the yardage. 530 yards would become a 2.3 hold as an example. Oh an the flyer for the Coleman’s match now says targets 50-1200 Meters. Apparently no mile shots now.
Also if you Speed drop is something like 2.8 and you scope only has .5 down then just dial UP .2 and still subtract 3. I can’t do the tenths quickly in my head but can do the whole numbers.
Thanks Makev and great comment. While you can definitely do that, it can become very difficult to remember all of the addition and subtraction during a higher stress situation. For me anyways.
Another informative vid ! Would you true a 22lr the same way ?
No! Absolutely not Erich.
Since you are probably or at least “should be “ shooting subsonic ammunition you need to do MV truing out to 100 or so, then use DSF for all other distances like 200,300 and 400.
This will set known truing points within the curve.
@@XRING thank you again ! I may be up all night w your vids hahahaa
LOL! There are a few of them for sure!
Why did you not use environmentals on first shot?
👍🍻
Can you just use a garmin to check velocity ? Or is this a better way?.
You can of course, however your ballistic curve might not line up exactly. This is why you true your MV to match the curve better. You could also adjust BC to do that as well. 👍🏼
The whole debate on how to true has been debated for a long time. BC changes with speed. So I always adjusted MV from 5-600 yards, and rest tweak the BC to 1000. But i tried this method too and honestly it works too. However if you have a cartridge with a bullet with a high BC but not enough “ass” to get that bullet out there, your not getting that high BC like you thought.
Ray, can I do this calc at 400yrs? That is my max distance at my range.
You can but your drop table won’t be as good as it could be.
Does Kestrel have the ballistic data for Tula ammo?
Not sure on the Kestrel. I know Strelok Pro has Tula Ammo profiles.
Shouldn’t you true your BC instead of MV? MV can be measured, so it seems that data should be input directly. However BC is something we get from either the bullet manufacturer or from Brian Litz’s published bullet data, so it’s not something we can actually measure. With a trued BC, any changes in MV (due to a change in load, temperature, etc) could be input into the ballistic app and should translate. By having a “trued” MV, it’s more difficult to make a MV change in the app because the “trued” number in the app isn’t actual MV. Truing MV takes a measurable variable and turns it into an extrapolated value thereby muddying the water.
Why not cal dsf at a 1,000 ?
That looks like 1 mile range :)
What part of Utah? I'm in the northern part.
St. George.
Use a 2 x 4 upside a helmet. Best comms EVER!
The is a team that could really do some damage in a match!
I’m hoping !
If you fts why calibrate???? True BC??
Great video. The guys I shoot with wouldn't be as civilized. I would have been call a dumbass at the least!😄
Lol! That was off camera! 🤣
Thumb up just for showing the cig at 12:11
It’s a bad habit. But it is what it is.
Hi there nice video look im from Argentina i do have a tikka t3 bull barrel in 6.5 creedmore
I did not sight in the rifle just yet .
I do planing to use the hornary Eld in 147 gr .
Can you please send me you drop compesasion for the same ammo that you already have .
That will help me to get started for my rifle .
Because the ammo cost down here and hard to find i will send you my email .
I aways can pay you back wirh a red stag hunt lol if you decide to came down for it
Where do I go to contact you by messenger?
Email thexringchannel@gmail.com
Wouldn't it easier to literally measure the muzzle velocity?
Yes, however that won’t always match your true drop the further you go out.
Lol😂
Juju?????
You never heard of bad JUJU?
Maybe when you say White 6, shooter should respond: White 6? communication.
When you said white 6, did you mean white 6?
With a woman it's different. Lol!
She'll shoot Blue 6, just because you being a man, said white 6.
Christ bless!
😂
Awesome! Thanks for the comment.
I want to get into this