Good job, just two hints though. When you stick the two images together, use a small strip of PCB and glue them to it. Then the images wont move if the glue edge is not centred in the middle of the pcb thickness. Second, when you solder the vias, loop the wire in and out of lots of them as if you are stiching with the wire. Then solder 10 or more on each side at once.
I have been a manufacturar of PCB's, a tip, make a bottum UV also that you can expose the pcbord both sides at the same time Even better wen you use offset method on the films with spacing between them at the same thikness of the board so you wil keep proper alignement. Good Job.
At doublesided pcb's i make referenceholes in the layout and put excact fitting pins in the holes so the pososition of the layers opposites are not influenced by the thiknis of the boards, i have been foor years in proff manufacturing PCB bords up to 50 Layers. Nice video Nagyizee
I bought it from a local web shop, they are selling refurbished industrial stuff like PCB drilling bits, stepper motors, etc., and they have this solder mask also, but it doesn't have a brand.
the 10 min. is the time between applying the photoresist to the upper side and to the bottom side, it is on room temperature, and yes, to metal box is covered to shield from light, then comes 20min in the oven at 65-70*C, with ramp-up temperature it will be around 30 min. Single sided board goes directly to the oven.
Hi nagyizee: finally arrived ... I had to experiment as a laboratory test to find the parameters that permits to develop the positiv 20 ... it was very difficult, because not all the values that we read in the users manual is absolute ( I write to company positiv 20 owner because your user manual create confusion and they don;t answer me ... sic!! ) . I advise to the people who trying to use this spry. to experiment by your self based in your video tutorial in order to find the parameter in any personal case. It took me two weeks to understand this process. thanks so much for your video ... the UV lamp that I used is that the nails led lamp... but I did modifications. Thanks again.
I am glad to hear that you succeeded, and I could help you. Using this spray has two difficult points: - find a way to clean the board and to make it adhere well in an uniform layer - find the right exposure values. Usually I make a long strip of PCB, I apply the spray and expose the same piece of film with increasing time on each position (30sec. increments), develope it, etch it, and see which exposure time was right. That nail led lamp is ok, it may take longer to expose, be sure to have a film with good contrast.
Hi Matej, That 30sec depends on UV power also. Positive20 is pretty insensitive, so you need to burn it longer. Do an experiment with a test stip first, you can easily determine the right expo time
Unfortunately I don't have, but it is easy to do: I used 2x 5W high power SMD UV LEDs with 80* vizual angle, linked in series and powered from 12V through an LM317 current stabilizer. The LEDs are put together closely (to have spot light for greater contrast) on a larger PCM (to act as heat sink), and mounted on a pole to have ~20cm distance from the exposing surface. The whole thing can be connected to a timer to don't worry about accidental overexposure
@nagyizee That laquer is Positiv 20 which is a product in Kontakt Chemie (electrical/electronics) line from CRC Industries. I have that same stuff in my fridge along with SK10 flux.
Nice to see that others use the exact same technique when you are in a bit of doubt :P A little tip, for cleaning, just use steelwhool rub it to a shine, and that should be clean enough (have done 10 mill traces like that) you can also use the steel whool to clean the cured photoresist off afterwards
Those are standard high power red SMD LEDs. Positiv20 is sensible only from Blue to deep UV, so theoretically you can use yellow LEDs also for better lighting. Regards
Hi, It is a Proxxon micro drill. It comes with all kind of drill, mill and cutter heads. You can look also at Dremmel, that is a good brand also. Cheers :)
I used simmilar technics, but I used boards precoated from the factory, it is much more expessive, but does away the most critical part of the job (no cleaning, no spraying, no curing, no dust, etc). I also used HCl + H2O2 for the etching, it is more aggressive and reacts faster. I now use a CNC router to mill the tracks, drill and cut the board in one procedure. This way doesn't produce so detailed traces, but it is faster, you avoid differend steps and chemicals and it is impossibile to fail.
I had calculated that 0.4mm would be awesome, but I use 0.6mm because I mostly use 24mils tracks so it gets the job done, leaves a good isolation gap that makes soldering easier, it works faster and it has a long life. I have bought 0.4mm carbide drills, but I am affraid to use them because I think that they will brake as soon as they touch the board. I also do the cutting and drilling with the same tool (at the exact diameter, and even rectangular drills for some parts, this is very handy)
those drills are second hand industrial drills, there is a small webshop in our country which commercializes refurbished industrial stuff for DIY maniacs, I have the solder mask lacquer also from them
@nagyizee Nu esti peste limita cu lm317, la 5w are nevoie de 1.6 amperi nu? Felicitari pentru video arata foarte bine placile si statia de expunere. Mi-am luat un fel de "pebleo vitrea" pentru soldermask, dar pana acum nu mi-a iesit... (am vazut "picatura")
Yes, may be my solution is a bit strong, but I prefer this way, it handles better the differences in thickness and I had 100% good result till now. As for the expensiveness of Positiv 20, for me it is cheaper than to buy sensitive laminates in my country, and I can not find 0.8mm ones only 1.6mm, not to mention the short shelf life. I have a 4-jear old Positiv 20 and still working fine. But you are right, it is more comfortable to work with sensitive laminates and less messy.
Nagyon jo video,magyarazat stb. Tetszet az uv megvilagito cucc, en 1 regi scanner-t hasznalok amibe 5 drb 10W-os kimondottan uv neon van. Erdekelne az idozito. Csak igy tovabb.
Only one problem: with double side borads, if the board is big, the glass over the board can not to put the enougth presure in all zones of the scheme (overall in the center of the board due to the curvature of the glass or board itself), and the light can hit the board below the wires, and erase the wire.
Foarte bun tutorialul, dar n-ar fi fost mai simplu cu hartie foto si fierul de calcat? Imprimi cu o imprimanta laser pe o coala foto cablajul, il transferi pe placa curata cu fierul de calcat, o tii un pic in clorura ferica si gata. Ma rog...eu asa procedez. Fiecare face cum ii e mai usor si cum s-a obisnuit. Spor la treaba.
Bravo! M-am uitat si eu mai de mult la 'home made PCBs' , mi s-a parut interesant, apoi am realizat ca am nevoie de multe materiale: hartie de transfer, (alte procedeuri implica si o imprimanta cu laser), solutie de corodat, mini-bormasina, etc. Tare ca esti din Romania, daca ma hotarasc sa ma apuc, sau o sa am f mare nevoie pe viitor pot sa te intreb de unde sa procur materialele. Bun si aparatul de expunere, am verificat si blogul. Intr-adevar f scumpe ledurile.
Very nice. I really like your exposure lamp you made. Looks real good. Where do you source the solder mask laquer? I have had dificulty locating anything like it.
great movie! We are trying to make a machine like in college where you study, but I have a question, could you help me? the glass that holds the card has some specification? What would be the thickness of the glass? Thank you!
Hi, It is a Proxxon micro drill, you can search on google for a shop near to you. It is a handy tool, can do a lot with it. Now I use CNC to drill and cut out.
Hi, I want to make a PCB for the stereo system I've built on a Vero board... it does the job but this looks so much better (and the noise will reduce probably)! Several questions: 1. can the abrasive be toothpaste? 2. Do you share the knowledge of how to make a the UV light setup? 3. Did you synthesised the chemicals oh you bought them? Thank you so much for sharing that long but joyful method!
the lack of through hole plating doesn't mean that you don't have connection between sides. I do the vias by soldering small chunks of wire between the sides, and cut the excess to have the via at low profile. It is a painstaking and boring process but I have no easier alternative. Have seen some plating methods but too much chemicals and to much mess.
That is only harmless amount, and I DON'T dump the used FeCl3 in the sink. Be sure that we are polluting much more with detergents and other stuff than those couple of droplets of FeCl3 once in a mount. And BTW. FeCl3 is used also at the water purification plant to clean up and precipitate stuff from sewage water - see Wikipedia and related ...
After all that work, the final PCB looks really great! Thanks for the informative video. You seem to be using a battery operated drill with a cutting wheel to cut the board. Please tell me where you bought the drill and its details. Thanks.
szia az összeragasztott fóliás módszernél nem befolyásolja a két réteg pontos átfedését a panel vastagsága ? úgy értem, azt elég nehéz belőni, hogy a ragasztás éppen a panel középsíkjára essen a forrszemekről hogy szeded le a védőlakkot ? a használt vaskloridot hová teszed ? köszi. p
Thanks :-) It is a pretty old video, for the solder mask I have an other tutorial with UV curable lacquer, the results are more robust and professional, please look at that also.
it is a normal 3mm thick glass pate used for picture frames. fortunately any glass is pretty transparent for 400nm wavelength, but though I don't recommend thicker glass. Regards
Szia, de igen, befolyasolja, eppen ezert oda kell figyelni foleg az 1.6mm vastagsagu lapoknal hogy az osszeragasztott resz legyen alatamasztva egy 0.8mm vastag lapocskaval, igy jol ki, nekem a maximum elteres olyan 0.1mm volt, altalaban joval ez alatt van. a 0.8mm vastagsagu lemezeknel nem hasznalok alatamasztast mert nagy elterest nem okoz es jol talal.
@valiza123 Lm317 inca e in parametrii, am 1.2A pe el, ledurile merg cu 4.2V (8.4V in serie). L-am lasat functionand jumat de ora si temperatura pe chip a crescut la 75*C. Probabil ar trebui un heatsink mai mare dar am vrut sa-l tin low profile. Pentru soldermask incearca lacul de la tekro.ro (e la accessori circuite imprimate), eu sunt multumit cu acesta. Numai bine, Arpad
Nice video, but could of shown more of products being used, especially the masking at the end. I've tried the UV spray, and had horrible results, but your method of using the tin box is brilliant. The last time I used the oven, the wife banned me!
Hi, this is a pretty old video, couple of things changed in my process till then. Please look to ua-cam.com/video/y-bjbF8USHc/v-deo.html for the UV curable solder mask - no oven is needed there :-P.
I would like to try the toner transfer method for solder mask, some people say that the solder mask lacquer will not cure when combined with toner and I can wash out the affected parts with a solvent. Have you tried that method?
1.) you are not forced to learn it 2.) it is only a tutorial about the use of the Positiv20 3.) if you want mass production then contact a pcb manufacturer, othervise it is only hobby level
Hello, Very impressive work! I could not see what the blue cream was you brushed on that became the green solder mask. Would you me give details please!
Hi, I see that my messed up white balance created a lot of confusion. That's actually green, but becomes a transparent darker green when dried. But I don't use this paint any more, I am working with UV curable one, there is a link in the video description for that tutorial video. Regards
Thanks for video, it is very impressive, I have tried a lot of times with other techniques and I allways fail, but your methot looks very promising. Greetings from Colombia
I see you using a solder mask but you apply it after drilling the holes? Surely then the holes are filled with mask? But then you also apply the solder mask, but don't mask the pads either so you then have the tedious task of uncovering the pads. It seems you have transparency sheets available to you, why not print just the pads onto a transparency, cover the board in UV curable mask, smooth off with the transparency over the pads and put back under your UV light? Food for thought :)
Why not use a mask to prevent the pads from curing? I've got some UV solder mask that is supposed to work like that but it always tends to stick to the mask
10 minutes drying? In what temperature? I do dry the PCB around 50mins in 50degrees. And you don't need to switch off the lights ;) Sunshine and really strong light might damage the pcb.
Hi, the solder mask has no brand, it is some sort of industrial stuff. You can acquire it from e-bay also, try searching after green solder mask Regards
для ускорения травления в хлорном железе добавьте аэрацию (внешний компрессор для аквариума) add aeration (external aquarium compressor) to accelerate the etching in the ferric chloride
Brilliant! Exhausting and hard work, but interesting. This is obviously not for beginner without all those chemicals, UV and drill tools, but it is fascinating look how you did it :)
That's a solution I was thinking about also, but I couldn't use that method because my boards differ in size and also the Positiv20 can leave imperfections so I need the freedom to move the film to neutral position at the imperfections as much as possible. I made some plates with different thickness to center the film's glued edge for different board thickness, and with them I have a solid 50 micron tolerance in total in layer alignment which is good for my needs Cheers, :-)
Hello, the PCB was perfect, I wonder about that device with UV LED, which you already manufactured or bought ready. Could you tell where I can find. Thank you Lucas Rafael
I don't really know what is the concentration because I buy the whole solution from an electronics shop, and they don't put any info on the bottle about this
im in the process of making a 3d printer, but ill definately give this a try when im done, i designed a controller for a 6 phase brushless DC motor a little while ago, and it would be cool to actually print it and give it a try:)
it is at 9:26, I make the vias using small wires, after soldering I try to cut them as short as possible - painstaking procedure. After this I clean the board with isopropyl alcohol, apply the green solder mask, and put in the oven to 200*C. Cheers :-)
wow... im just looking around to find out how to make some basic circuits to operate some leds in my truck interior. (doing custom fiberglass panels) and wanted to run leds from the 12v system. i found this instead.... way over my head here. lots of money just to get started, this is crazy....
You can also make a vacuum tray, a glas bottom and the top a frame with pvc foil,and make a vacuum with a littele pump, this way you will have no distortion ff your image because there is air between the films, this is critical when you have smal spaces between the traces, one tip alway compensate the time of exposure because the material where your boards are between absorbes a amount of UV light , if can get a stepwedge test by Dupont helps to , have la lot of fun with the hobby !!
Nagyizee; This is a very slick video. Really impressed. If you have it the schematic and any files of the PCB would be really appreciated. i would love to make your one of your exposure devices. The ability to dial up the time makes the process even easier. Many thanks. Wubu11
pipes are from plastic all the way to the sewer, so there is no issue, the sink is already messed up, so there is no issue either :-D and for the environment, I never dump the FeCl3 in the sewer, only wash the small amount from the board, that doesn't create any harm to anybody. Regards, :-)
I did my own UV lamp and it's work great. I have two times 4 diodes uv connected series, the last have 20-30% less power than rest. Im trying to do soldermask using chinesse uv soldermask paste, but after 2 days of trying i can said this paste is shit. Do you use paints for glass?
+Nerin18 I am using this UV solder mask for 2 years: www.ebay.com/itm/PCB-UV-Curable-Solder-Mask-Repairing-Paint-Green-100g-/200622507317?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb6088535 and I had no issue with it, It is a bit insensitive, I need to burn it for 10 min. under UV, then when I wash the board down, I put it back yet an other 10min to harden it further, no issues till now.
+nagyizee I have this UV solder mask, few month ago i tried to use it and i it cured, but it adhering to the film. Two days ago i tried to make soldermask for two days, the last attempt was a hour lighting under UV lamp and it didn't cure. Today i bought thermoset paint glass and painted my board. I hope it will be good. --- One and half scraping pads :)
+Nerin18 sorry to hear that; I had no issues with mine till now, I have it for 2 years and it still cures in 10 - 12min; before every use I stir it up well, and don't let the container open for long.
+Nerin18 Yes, I have a tutorial, that is actually my 2nd trial, when I have seen how good the first came out :-) ua-cam.com/video/y-bjbF8USHc/v-deo.html Cheers
Yes, I know it is painstaking process, but it is cheap and time efficient for one single prototype board. If I will go into production with something I will use the help of a company you did. Could you please send me some links or info which company it is and what are their options and the pricing? Thanks
@odv000 now I am using a lithographic printer which creates high optical quality film. A friend of mine is working with typography and he has such a printer
Hi, it is standard red led. You can use yellow also for better visibility because this coating is insensitive to incandescent light spectrum, though do not expose it to your 60W desk lamp :-)
@odv000 Hi, I made my first film as you described, set the printer to max quality, printed two films for each side - one mirorred, one direct to have the toner on the same side when you glue together, this way you get better contrast. I glued together with superglue. The result was pretty satisfying on 0.3mm traces, but on large areas it still produced some holes. You have to experiment with exposure time, because the film is still sort of transparent. I used 7min with 10w UV led.
:-D don't be discouraged, this method is for miniature and/or complex electronics where you need high resolution and high precision. For simpler electronics I think the thermal transfer method is better and more "in hands" :-)
@dumyyyyyy Toner transfer is sort ok OK for traces wider than 0.3 mm, even then you need to thoroughly check for interruptions; but it is useless for 0.15mm traces I am using now. I struggled a lot with toner transfer method, since I use the optical I have virtually 0 failure rate.
Incandescent light won't harm the photo-resist layer, and in my opinion you took way too much NaOH. A weak solution will take longer to develop, but it is more gentle to the non UV exposed areas. Positiv 20 is expensive and not easy to apply, there are issues with the thickness and dust and it needs to cure, I wouldn't bother and get a board already covered with a photo resist.
Good job, just two hints though. When you stick the two images together, use a small strip of PCB and glue them to it. Then the images wont move if the glue edge is not centred in the middle of the pcb thickness. Second, when you solder the vias, loop the wire in and out of lots of them as if you are stiching with the wire. Then solder 10 or more on each side at once.
I have been a manufacturar of PCB's, a tip, make a bottum UV also that you can expose the pcbord both sides at the same time
Even better wen you use offset method on the films with spacing between them at the same thikness of the board so you wil keep proper alignement.
Good Job.
At doublesided pcb's i make referenceholes in the layout and put excact fitting pins in the holes so the pososition of the layers opposites are not influenced by the thiknis of the boards, i have been foor years in proff manufacturing PCB bords up to 50 Layers.
Nice video Nagyizee
I bought it from a local web shop, they are selling refurbished industrial stuff like PCB drilling bits, stepper motors, etc., and they have this solder mask also, but it doesn't have a brand.
the 10 min. is the time between applying the photoresist to the upper side and to the bottom side, it is on room temperature, and yes, to metal box is covered to shield from light, then comes 20min in the oven at 65-70*C, with ramp-up temperature it will be around 30 min.
Single sided board goes directly to the oven.
Hi nagyizee:
finally arrived ... I had to experiment as a laboratory test to find the parameters that permits to develop the positiv 20 ... it was very difficult, because not all the values that we read in the users manual is absolute ( I write to company positiv 20 owner because your user manual create confusion and they don;t answer me ... sic!! ) . I advise to the people who trying to use this spry.
to experiment by your self based in your video tutorial in order to find the parameter in any personal case.
It took me two weeks to understand this process. thanks so much for your video ... the UV lamp that I used is that the nails led lamp... but I did modifications.
Thanks again.
I am glad to hear that you succeeded, and I could help you.
Using this spray has two difficult points:
- find a way to clean the board and to make it adhere well in an uniform layer
- find the right exposure values.
Usually I make a long strip of PCB, I apply the spray and expose the same piece of film with increasing time on each position (30sec. increments), develope it, etch it, and see which exposure time was right.
That nail led lamp is ok, it may take longer to expose, be sure to have a film with good contrast.
Hi Matej,
That 30sec depends on UV power also. Positive20 is pretty insensitive, so you need to burn it longer. Do an experiment with a test stip first, you can easily determine the right expo time
Salut,
Da, putem discuta; am incercat si eu multe pana cand am ajuns la aceste solutii, si iti dau sfaturi cu placere.
Toate cele bune
Unfortunately I don't have, but it is easy to do:
I used 2x 5W high power SMD UV LEDs with 80* vizual angle, linked in series and powered from 12V through an LM317 current stabilizer.
The LEDs are put together closely (to have spot light for greater contrast) on a larger PCM (to act as heat sink), and mounted on a pole to have ~20cm distance from the exposing surface.
The whole thing can be connected to a timer to don't worry about accidental overexposure
@nagyizee That laquer is Positiv 20 which is a product in Kontakt Chemie (electrical/electronics) line from CRC Industries. I have that same stuff in my fridge along with SK10 flux.
Nice to see that others use the exact same technique when you are in a bit of doubt :P
A little tip, for cleaning, just use steelwhool rub it to a shine, and that should be clean enough (have done 10 mill traces like that)
you can also use the steel whool to clean the cured photoresist off afterwards
That was the craftiest piece of work I've ever seen
Those are standard high power red SMD LEDs. Positiv20 is sensible only from Blue to deep UV, so theoretically you can use yellow LEDs also for better lighting.
Regards
Hi,
It is a Proxxon micro drill. It comes with all kind of drill, mill and cutter heads.
You can look also at Dremmel, that is a good brand also.
Cheers :)
I used simmilar technics, but I used boards precoated from the factory, it is much more expessive, but does away the most critical part of the job (no cleaning, no spraying, no curing, no dust, etc). I also used HCl + H2O2 for the etching, it is more aggressive and reacts faster. I now use a CNC router to mill the tracks, drill and cut the board in one procedure. This way doesn't produce so detailed traces, but it is faster, you avoid differend steps and chemicals and it is impossibile to fail.
I had calculated that 0.4mm would be awesome, but I use 0.6mm because I mostly use 24mils tracks so it gets the job done, leaves a good isolation gap that makes soldering easier, it works faster and it has a long life. I have bought 0.4mm carbide drills, but I am affraid to use them because I think that they will brake as soon as they touch the board. I also do the cutting and drilling with the same tool (at the exact diameter, and even rectangular drills for some parts, this is very handy)
those drills are second hand industrial drills, there is a small webshop in our country which commercializes refurbished industrial stuff for DIY maniacs, I have the solder mask lacquer also from them
Great video and awesome work.BUT: The question is: Why so much work with this equipment when same results y have trough toner transfer method?
@nagyizee Nu esti peste limita cu lm317, la 5w are nevoie de 1.6 amperi nu?
Felicitari pentru video arata foarte bine placile si statia de expunere. Mi-am luat un fel de "pebleo vitrea" pentru soldermask, dar pana acum nu mi-a iesit... (am vazut "picatura")
Yes, may be my solution is a bit strong, but I prefer this way, it handles better the differences in thickness and I had 100% good result till now.
As for the expensiveness of Positiv 20, for me it is cheaper than to buy sensitive laminates in my country, and I can not find 0.8mm ones only 1.6mm, not to mention the short shelf life. I have a 4-jear old Positiv 20 and still working fine. But you are right, it is more comfortable to work with sensitive laminates and less messy.
Nagyon jo video,magyarazat stb. Tetszet az uv megvilagito cucc, en 1 regi scanner-t hasznalok amibe 5 drb 10W-os kimondottan uv neon van. Erdekelne az idozito. Csak igy tovabb.
Only one problem: with double side borads, if the board is big, the glass over the board can not to put the enougth presure in all zones of the scheme (overall in the center of the board due to the curvature of the glass or board itself), and the light can hit the board below the wires, and erase the wire.
Foarte bun tutorialul, dar n-ar fi fost mai simplu cu hartie foto si fierul de calcat? Imprimi cu o imprimanta laser pe o coala foto cablajul, il transferi pe placa curata cu fierul de calcat, o tii un pic in clorura ferica si gata.
Ma rog...eu asa procedez. Fiecare face cum ii e mai usor si cum s-a obisnuit. Spor la treaba.
Bravo! M-am uitat si eu mai de mult la 'home made PCBs' , mi s-a parut interesant, apoi am realizat ca am nevoie de multe materiale: hartie de transfer, (alte procedeuri implica si o imprimanta cu laser), solutie de corodat, mini-bormasina, etc. Tare ca esti din Romania, daca ma hotarasc sa ma apuc, sau o sa am f mare nevoie pe viitor pot sa te intreb de unde sa procur materialele. Bun si aparatul de expunere, am verificat si blogul. Intr-adevar f scumpe ledurile.
Very nice. I really like your exposure lamp you made. Looks real good. Where do you source the solder mask laquer? I have had dificulty locating anything like it.
great movie! We are trying to make a machine like in college where you study, but I have a question, could you help me? the glass that holds the card has some specification? What would be the thickness of the glass? Thank you!
Yes I was thinking also to use precoated boards, but couldn't find
köszi a választ
egy tanács: az üvegszálas panel vágásakor vigyázz a porral, veszélyes
Hi,
It is a Proxxon micro drill, you can search on google for a shop near to you. It is a handy tool, can do a lot with it.
Now I use CNC to drill and cut out.
Hi, I want to make a PCB for the stereo system I've built on a Vero board... it does the job but this looks so much better (and the noise will reduce probably)! Several questions:
1. can the abrasive be toothpaste?
2. Do you share the knowledge of how to make a the UV light setup?
3. Did you synthesised the chemicals oh you bought them?
Thank you so much for sharing that long but joyful method!
the lack of through hole plating doesn't mean that you don't have connection between sides.
I do the vias by soldering small chunks of wire between the sides, and cut the excess to have the via at low profile.
It is a painstaking and boring process but I have no easier alternative.
Have seen some plating methods but too much chemicals and to much mess.
That is only harmless amount, and I DON'T dump the used FeCl3 in the sink.
Be sure that we are polluting much more with detergents and other stuff than those couple of droplets of FeCl3 once in a mount.
And BTW. FeCl3 is used also at the water purification plant to clean up and precipitate stuff from sewage water - see Wikipedia and related ...
After all that work, the final PCB looks really great! Thanks for the informative video. You seem to be using a battery operated drill with a cutting wheel to cut the board. Please tell me where you bought the drill and its details. Thanks.
szia
az összeragasztott fóliás módszernél nem befolyásolja a két réteg pontos átfedését a panel vastagsága ? úgy értem, azt elég nehéz belőni, hogy a ragasztás éppen a panel középsíkjára essen
a forrszemekről hogy szeded le a védőlakkot ?
a használt vaskloridot hová teszed ?
köszi.
p
I have a 36W UV light tube. At a distance of 18cm, how long should I expose the board ?
Jesus christ your custom uv filter is BAD ASS, great friggin job!!
nice job,where did you buy the drill bits?
Also tell the the kind of uv led,are you using one or two!
That was beautiful to watch nagyizee. Beautiful results. Love The solder mask part. That makes it excellent. Thanks for your vid.
Thanks :-)
It is a pretty old video, for the solder mask I have an other tutorial with UV curable lacquer, the results are more robust and professional, please look at that also.
it is a normal 3mm thick glass pate used for picture frames.
fortunately any glass is pretty transparent for 400nm wavelength, but though I don't recommend thicker glass.
Regards
It is 10W in total with two 5W 400nm UV LEDs in series bought from Farnell.
mine is also home build, sure you can build it too
Szia,
de igen, befolyasolja, eppen ezert oda kell figyelni foleg az 1.6mm vastagsagu lapoknal hogy az osszeragasztott resz legyen alatamasztva egy 0.8mm vastag lapocskaval, igy jol ki, nekem a maximum elteres olyan 0.1mm volt, altalaban joval ez alatt van.
a 0.8mm vastagsagu lemezeknel nem hasznalok alatamasztast mert nagy elterest nem okoz es jol talal.
@valiza123 Lm317 inca e in parametrii, am 1.2A pe el, ledurile merg cu 4.2V (8.4V in serie). L-am lasat functionand jumat de ora si temperatura pe chip a crescut la 75*C. Probabil ar trebui un heatsink mai mare dar am vrut sa-l tin low profile.
Pentru soldermask incearca lacul de la tekro.ro (e la accessori circuite imprimate), eu sunt multumit cu acesta.
Numai bine,
Arpad
Nice video, but could of shown more of products being used, especially the masking at the end. I've tried the UV spray, and had horrible results, but your method of using the tin box is brilliant. The last time I used the oven, the wife banned me!
Hi, this is a pretty old video, couple of things changed in my process till then.
Please look to ua-cam.com/video/y-bjbF8USHc/v-deo.html for the UV curable solder mask - no oven is needed there :-P.
I would like to try the toner transfer method for solder mask, some people say that the solder mask lacquer will not cure when combined with toner and I can wash out the affected parts with a solvent.
Have you tried that method?
What kind of drill is that?
That thing looks as efficient as a sewing machine!!
Do you have a way of coating the board with tin after cleaning and before spraying?
1.) you are not forced to learn it
2.) it is only a tutorial about the use of the Positiv20
3.) if you want mass production then contact a pcb manufacturer, othervise it is only hobby level
Hello, Very impressive work! I could not see what the blue cream was you brushed on that became the green solder mask. Would you me give details please!
Hi, I see that my messed up white balance created a lot of confusion. That's actually green, but becomes a transparent darker green when dried.
But I don't use this paint any more, I am working with UV curable one, there is a link in the video description for that tutorial video.
Regards
Thanks for video, it is very impressive, I have tried a lot of times with other techniques and I allways fail, but your methot looks very promising.
Greetings from Colombia
Glad to help you, :-)
I see you using a solder mask but you apply it after drilling the holes? Surely then the holes are filled with mask? But then you also apply the solder mask, but don't mask the pads either so you then have the tedious task of uncovering the pads. It seems you have transparency sheets available to you, why not print just the pads onto a transparency, cover the board in UV curable mask, smooth off with the transparency over the pads and put back under your UV light? Food for thought :)
Why not use a mask to prevent the pads from curing? I've got some UV solder mask that is supposed to work like that but it always tends to stick to the mask
Thanks :-)
I don't remember exactly, but I think it is doable in 2-3 hours if the Positiv20 lacquer adheres as needed.
Lampa aceea UV e facuta de tine? Sau unde as gasi o schema. Mersi
Hi,
impressive result !!!
And can you achieve the same but only with copper plate?
I need parts for a model?
Thank you :)
10 minutes drying? In what temperature?
I do dry the PCB around 50mins in 50degrees.
And you don't need to switch off the lights ;)
Sunshine and really strong light might damage the pcb.
Do you have the schematic for your awesome light board?
I've never got the toner transfer method to work. Its always been an exercise in frustration
that blue thing is the solder mask to protect the board, and it actually becomes green when cured :)
you could happen mounting the exposure unit and timer? Thank you.
Interesting process - way more professional than mine. The superglue is a way better idea than the more typical tape.
Hi, the solder mask has no brand, it is some sort of industrial stuff.
You can acquire it from e-bay also, try searching after green solder mask
Regards
для ускорения травления в хлорном железе добавьте аэрацию (внешний компрессор для аквариума)
add aeration (external aquarium compressor) to accelerate the etching in the ferric chloride
how is the concentration of the NaOH in the water? Because i suppose you don't use a solution of NaOH with a concentration of 100%.
Brilliant! Exhausting and hard work, but interesting. This is obviously not for beginner without all those chemicals, UV and drill tools, but it is fascinating look how you did it :)
:-) Thanks.
Yes, it isn't easy, has many steps, but if you want very small layouts with miniature components, it is a way to do it at home.
That's a solution I was thinking about also, but I couldn't use that method because my boards differ in size and also the Positiv20 can leave imperfections so I need the freedom to move the film to neutral position at the imperfections as much as possible.
I made some plates with different thickness to center the film's glued edge for different board thickness, and with them I have a solid 50 micron tolerance in total in layer alignment which is good for my needs
Cheers, :-)
HI! It's will be possible sending schematic of UV timing ? or all components and pcb ?
Hello, the PCB was perfect, I wonder about that device with UV LED, which you already manufactured or bought ready. Could you tell where I can find.
Thank you
Lucas Rafael
Hi, that UV device is home made, you find the link the video description above if you want to build one
Cheers
nagyizee Thank you I'll do it.
yes, it has a thermocouple input also
I don't really know what is the concentration because I buy the whole solution from an electronics shop, and they don't put any info on the bottle about this
@refa42
We were talking about the green solder mask lacquer, the positiv20 is the photoresist, and I also have it in the fridge :-D
im in the process of making a 3d printer, but ill definately give this a try when im done, i designed a controller for a 6 phase brushless DC motor a little while ago, and it would be cool to actually print it and give it a try:)
it is at 9:26, I make the vias using small wires, after soldering I try to cut them as short as possible - painstaking procedure. After this I clean the board with isopropyl alcohol, apply the green solder mask, and put in the oven to 200*C.
Cheers :-)
Tip...You can use red LED lamp for you lighting needs...it does not emit UV
wow... im just looking around to find out how to make some basic circuits to operate some leds in my truck interior. (doing custom fiberglass panels) and wanted to run leds from the 12v system. i found this instead.... way over my head here. lots of money just to get started, this is crazy....
You can also make a vacuum tray, a glas bottom and the top a frame with pvc foil,and make a vacuum with a littele pump, this way you will have no distortion ff your image because there is air between the films, this is critical when you have smal spaces between the traces, one tip alway compensate the time of exposure because the material where your boards are between absorbes a amount of UV light , if can get a stepwedge test by Dupont helps to , have la lot of fun with the hobby !!
Nagyizee;
This is a very slick video. Really impressed. If you have it the schematic and any files of the PCB would be really appreciated. i would love to make your one of your exposure devices. The ability to dial up the time makes the process even easier.
Many thanks.
Wubu11
can you send me the sketch for that light? looks awesome
Before photoresist, since I do not etch and I think that it will be easier. I tried some ways of my own but nothing that worked easily and well.
great vid i would love the shematic or pcb design for the uv timer.
if this is possible.
pipes are from plastic all the way to the sewer, so there is no issue, the sink is already messed up, so there is no issue either :-D
and for the environment, I never dump the FeCl3 in the sewer, only wash the small amount from the board, that doesn't create any harm to anybody.
Regards,
:-)
I did my own UV lamp and it's work great. I have two times 4 diodes uv connected series, the last have 20-30% less power than rest. Im trying to do soldermask using chinesse uv soldermask paste, but after 2 days of trying i can said this paste is shit. Do you use paints for glass?
+Nerin18
I am using this UV solder mask for 2 years:
www.ebay.com/itm/PCB-UV-Curable-Solder-Mask-Repairing-Paint-Green-100g-/200622507317?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb6088535
and I had no issue with it, It is a bit insensitive, I need to burn it for 10 min. under UV, then when I wash the board down, I put it back yet an other 10min to harden it further, no issues till now.
+nagyizee I have this UV solder mask, few month ago i tried to use it and i it cured, but it adhering to the film. Two days ago i tried to make soldermask for two days, the last attempt was a hour lighting under UV lamp and it didn't cure.
Today i bought thermoset paint glass and painted my board. I hope it will be good.
---
One and half scraping pads :)
+Nerin18
sorry to hear that;
I had no issues with mine till now, I have it for 2 years and it still cures in 10 - 12min; before every use I stir it up well, and don't let the container open for long.
Nagyizee did you make a tutorial about UV soldermask?
+Nerin18
Yes, I have a tutorial, that is actually my 2nd trial, when I have seen how good the first came out :-)
ua-cam.com/video/y-bjbF8USHc/v-deo.html
Cheers
Do you have a tutorial on how you did your Custome UV Exposer Device?
Yes, I know it is painstaking process, but it is cheap and time efficient for one single prototype board.
If I will go into production with something I will use the help of a company you did.
Could you please send me some links or info which company it is and what are their options and the pricing?
Thanks
nagyizee
How the soldering mask is called?
The reference it is possible?
@nagyizee sorry I got photo and solder resist mixed up. Seeedstudio has solder mask inks. I'd link it but this doesn't allow urls.
Dude whats the wattage of ur UV lamp ! ? and can this be done with custom built led lamps !?
Awesome job! I just wonder if you have troubles when exposing UV light for longer periods of time, as on other site i seen 30seconds exposure time.
and where did you find that drill?
very nice!! i wish i had all of that stuff to do my pcb's, just one thing, dont leave the water running!!
@odv000
now I am using a lithographic printer which creates high optical quality film. A friend of mine is working with typography and he has such a printer
Do you use special red light so you can see what you are doing without ruin the coating?
Or is it standard red led?
Hi, it is standard red led. You can use yellow also for better visibility because this coating is insensitive to incandescent light spectrum, though do not expose it to your 60W desk lamp :-)
@odv000
Hi,
I made my first film as you described, set the printer to max quality, printed two films for each side - one mirorred, one direct to have the toner on the same side when you glue together, this way you get better contrast. I glued together with superglue. The result was pretty satisfying on 0.3mm traces, but on large areas it still produced some holes.
You have to experiment with exposure time, because the film is still sort of transparent. I used 7min with 10w UV led.
what is that cutting thing u used at 1.20-1.35?
where can i get a similar item? :)
:-D
don't be discouraged, this method is for miniature and/or complex electronics where you need high resolution and high precision.
For simpler electronics I think the thermal transfer method is better and more "in hands" :-)
@dumyyyyyy Toner transfer is sort ok OK for traces wider than 0.3 mm, even then you need to thoroughly check for interruptions;
but it is useless for 0.15mm traces I am using now.
I struggled a lot with toner transfer method, since I use the optical I have virtually 0 failure rate.
Boa noite amigo, nota 10 este seu revelador de placa a onde posso conseguir um.
Incandescent light won't harm the photo-resist layer, and in my opinion you took way too much NaOH. A weak solution will take longer to develop, but it is more gentle to the non UV exposed areas. Positiv 20 is expensive and not easy to apply, there are issues with the thickness and dust and it needs to cure, I wouldn't bother and get a board already covered with a photo resist.
Nice work! Which diode and which transistor have you used for your UV exposure device?
1n4148, bc847
Do you mean, after it is etched, or before the photoresist?
Hi! Great work! I would like to know about led used for red lighting - this is standart RED led or some special?