Note: the screen recordings look WAY WORSE than what you see on headset. I avoided talking about “foveated rendering” because I didn’t want to scare the normal humans away, maybe a topic for 2nd channel? 🤔
@@ermiceits a micro oled display with a 4k screen for both eyes. And i heard the pixel density is so good that you basically cant see pixels. And u can make it as huge as a home cinema so ig u cant really compare them...
I've been wondering when this would be possible since Minority report came out :) Guess an airplane might be a good use case. How many readable lines of code / chars per line would you get in a full screen editor/terminal? (My go-to test when i look for big monitors)
The pass through video for me is a blurry mess. I can’t read anything near me and looking at objects in the distance look blurry. That being said, the vision UI is stupidly sharp, so I’m now wondering if my unit could be defective 😢
I wonder if we end up having VR versions of web apps. we're still at point where a lot of apps doesn't work well on mobile, we still need to build native apps, I can't imagine supporting desktop, mobile, AND VR.
The web is a paradigm for a single window on a single screen. For VR this is a really tough constraint, because in VR you can have a main window with the stuff you are working on and you can put everything around this without compromising what you see in that main window. Popup windows or additional options can be displayed outside that main frame. However, quite some programs have started using sidebars that can be collapsed and opened separately. I think this concept will evolve into a concept where those sidepanels open to the outside of the main frame instead of to the inside.
its worth mentioning the recording from the AVP includes it's foveating rendering, which is why things look blurry. It saves processing power by keeping what you're LOOKING at in high res
From what I understand, there is a way to record full-resolution using the developer tools, but it has to drop frame rate significantly in order to do it.
This style makes so much sense for the product review. I think you’re gonna rake in the views Theo. Good stuff I have been considering the vision pro for Dev and this is insightful
This is the same excitement people had (after putting money down and waiting 6 months) in 1984 when the Macintosh came out. You know things are never going to be the same again.
I used to be a pretty big VR enthusiast (maybe not to your level given all the devices you've owned) and seeing your experience as a developer using this is great. Thank you for investing in this and sharing your experience.
I have a Oculus CV1 (that I haven't used in years), I decided to set away from VR until there was a big jump in resolution. This headset my just be what I was looking for.
My expectation was dragging a window from the Mac out of the screen and have it floating in space. Instead we got a screen sharing app that supports only a single screen. I am a little disappointed. Even Meta Workspace and the app Immersed can do 3 screens with a Mac and Quest 3 so I would have expected this device to do more. Especially, given that Apple can change MacOS itself it make it an even better experience while all others have to work around their restrictions.
The quest 3 only has 1 app running at a time, Vision Pro technically lets you have unlimited apps open. And all of those apps except for the screen mirroring are computed locally on Vision Pro. So it’s doing a lot more than the Quest 3 is, computationally
Mac -> AVP screen mirroring has a lot lower latency than Immersed. They will eventually support more but they didn’t want to trade off any input latency, they wanted it to feel like a real monitor.
I'm personally excited for where this goes. The one thing I really want to see is the ability to drag Mac windows around in space, not limited by the "virtual monitor". I'm imagining a day when I can put it on, connect to a Mac Studio, and then have a full workspace in whatever room I want to be in. Like remote desktop taken to the next dimension (literally). I could also see one of the most popular product categories for the Vision Pro being a bracket to combine a Magic Trackpad with a keyboard into one connected piece. There have been a few before but they were of limited utility given that most would still be used on a desk. But having a keyboard and trackpad in your lap suddenly becomes *very* important for the Vision Pro, and I could imagine that a lot of these kinds of products are going to show up. Or, perhaps Apple could make a one-piece keyboard/trackpad for the Vision Pro?
One thing I can notice just by watching the video is the blur in the virtual screens/windows, which I think you didn't quite address (oh, it's in the pinned comment); so to add to Theo's comments in the video, I'll mention that there's this technique called "foveated rendering", which blurs everywhere except the exact area you're looking at, which is what they're using in the Vision Pro, likely to save processing It's weird to see all the blur because you're not looking at the same points Theo is looking, but from what I've heard it's very comfortable when you're actually using it, the exact point you're looking at is always clear
I kinda feel like it should track real world objects to bring into your immersed mode... The keyboard, the mouse, coffee cup or water bottle. Maybe even pen and paper. Being able to shut out the rest of the world while having select objects with you seems like a huge productivity gain. This doesn't seem too dissimilar from the way people facing you can fade into your immersed space, but ideally should have visual segmentation on par with the hand tracking.
Having owned every oculus headset, I think the passthrough on AVP looks great. It's definitely a leap forward. There are a lot of people that think otherwise, and I'm not sure what they were expecting
@@toututu2993 How Einstein said everything is measured from point of view of observer. They compare passthrough from real life, because that is there point of from where they measure it. For us its other headset.
Great solution if your IPD is in the right range (mine is not), and you can handle panel resolution of 1920x1080 (per eye). You can get a few more vertical pixels using Rokid Max (1920x1200). PPD is surprisingly good for these birdbath glasses, very lightweight, but they have to be plugged in at all times, no onboard battery (like AVP).
Hm, I thought I could easily refrain from buying this product but this is the first overview I have seen which has really captured my interest… it makes me excited for the future for sure.
This is the precise review that I've hoped someone with knowledge, experience and great communication skills would make, since I first heard about the Vision Pro. Thanks.
If using Immersed with a Mac, be sure to mess with (on the Mac side) "Settings" ➝ "Advanced" ➝ "Retina Display Quality". "10" is what you want for reading smaller text, assuming it doesn't hurt latency. "Encode Quality" doesn't seem to be as important for text -- as long as you don't go lower than "Medium" -- though it does help with images. I tried supersampling (using "Quest Games Optimizer"), but it seemed to only improve the UI, I couldn't tell a difference in the virtual screen.
Am I the only one who thinks the most interesting part of this video is actually seeing Theo's broadcast setup? I never would have guessed he uses a teleprompter, his speaking sounds really natural. Kudos on that!
The only way I'll ever use a device like this is if it comes in the form factor of actual glasses and can just be switched off and used as normal glasses throughout the day
I think multiple digital screens are very useful but spatial computing is giving the mobile device preview as a 3D model of the device in your hand with the screen running your code. I don't think the flying screens are representative of spatial computing.
Virtually infinite screen real-estate sounds really awesome. If it becomes affordable and can properly integrate with my desktop, it's definitely something I would consider. I have 3 monitors, and it's never enough. I'm considering getting a fourth one, but I don't know where it would fit on my desk lol. Also I'm running out of ports on my laptop to connect all of them.
Depends on your use case, but as a developer getting more vertical pixels is important, so i use 4 or 5 1440p monitors in portrait mode. up to 7200x2560 pixels, but some windows have to span monitors
I'm not believing I will ever Code in this. There is a reason we like buttons with feedback. For example, light switches or keyboards. You don't look at what you're pressing, you have muscle memory for it. This certainly slows down productivity and learning curve. And only for more width, sounds like you should consider a proper desk setup with multiple monitors that have the width you need to work the best. Looking straight ahead and not down: Get a proper desk and chair.
It's crazy that's it seems to be another device from Apple that is hold back not by the hardware, but by software. iPads could be perfect for development - but no support for profesional tools. I'm so hyped for the monitorless future
I’ve probably spent close to 24 hours in my headset so far and I actually really like the solo-loop band 🤷♂ I just keep it kind of loose and set it higher up on the back of my head
I wish there was a way to know if/when Apple will allow for multiple Mac windows on the AVP; it's one of the few things holding it back from being superior to the desktop experience.
I use 2x 1440p 27” for dev work. Didn’t really feel the need to jump on 4K train. Maybe with bigger displays it would make sense but my desk will not take bigger displays. My first thought about Vision Pro was „I want multiple virtual displays” but „I want to drag windows around in 3D space” sounds so much more promising:) Still, a lot of things to be solved to make this work - might me as much software as hardware, but just like with iPhone we’re likely to see huge leaps in first 3-4 generations.
Gah, I've watched a ton of reviews, but this was the first time I really understood. As SOON as you can pull out windows into space, and the paradigm of the monitor goes away, it will be an amazing coding platform.
Have you considered using one of those glasses based XR displays instead? Yes it is just an external display and doesn't have much processing power of its own, but there's ways to have multimonitor support. You still would be using your normal computer and keyboard and such, but it might be a workflow that lets you do it just in those displays.
Man all I want is an AR headset I can plug into a tiny laptop and use as virtual monitors in a cafe so I can properly work remotely while travelling. This is so close… hopefully something similar for windows isn’t too far off.
Honestly the way you describe it, I wouldn't like the vision pro. I had a better time using a Rift S from as far back as 2019 than I would using the vision pro. The gains in size, weight, and speed are lost in software quality. And 2019 Oculus software wasn't even that good. The thing is, the inability to take any window from your computer and giving it its own space just doesn't feel right. Even with my old headset, I can do whatever I want with my PC's monitors & windows. While I need to switch to the right window (alt-tabbing or clicking on it with the joystick), it's still way more usable than whatever this is.
You can definitely do that now with code server or some web-based SSH until a better app is released, as long as I can get into neovim I'm chillin. I think this'll be more like an iPad and will be frustrated we can't compile directly on the device.
the book dreampark describes spectated vr enhanced dnd larps with teams of adventurers, a fully sedigned and integrated set and adventurers using augmented reality for their powers. The dungeon masters are described as being part director part programmer in a closet like environment with controls at their hands and feet and on voice control. it sounds like the apple pro is a step towards being the dm in this style of game
You should throw one of those "crowns" for reading brain signals into the mix, then think of code instead of typing it. And also one of those helmets where you can put 2 cans of water. Stay hydrated!
I was kicking the idea around of doing an open source desktop environment for Linux that is in VR like this since virtual desktop doesn't run on linux. I have seen another project of it already called Simula done in Godot, but I have no idea how fleshed out it is.
I am used to staying in VR for hours and I own an AVP which I agree it is a different device with amazing aesthetic experience. However, differently than the Quest that you can buy a BoboVR or another comfortable strap, the AVP comes with an additional headstrap with one strap in the top of the head. That should work, but the device is too heavy and the strap that goes in the back of the head is not angled enough to hold it to make the strap in the top of the head useful. The face gets red and my checks smashed after 1 hour. I might be more sensitive and and tryingvto be flexible understanding that people fell confort differently. How are you staying 7 hours? Are you resting every x hours? Are you adding an extra cushion?
@t3dotgg everyone talks about having a MacBook, but what about a Mac Studio? Would it work with the Vision Pro? Considering it's very early I wonder if it would also work with it.
Great video. To be fair, Apple made it very clear in their keynote the Vision Pro was spacial computing a made up name specifically to get people to think about productivity. Media consumption yes, gaming-barely mentioned. The Universal Control feature allows an attached Mac or bluetooth magic keyboard and trackpad to navigate all the windows. I’d use that or Siri to navigate. I don’t understand who would peck on that virtual keyboard. It’s more like a “in case of an emergency” option to me. Edit for petty people: “Apple made it very clear in their keynote the Vision Pro was “spacial computing”, an obscure concept designed to distance the device from VR/AR gaming headsets, specifically to get people to think about productivity.”
@@mikeyr5275Edit: “Apple made it very clear in their keynote the Vision Pro was “spacial computing”, an obscure concept designed to distance the device from VR/AR gaming headsets, specifically to get people to think about productivity.”
@@mikeyr5275 Edit: “Apple made it very clear in their keynote the Vision Pro was “spacial computing”, an obscure concept designed to distance the device from VR/AR gaming headsets, specifically to get people to think about productivity.”
@@mikeyr5275 what an insecure little boy you are. My response was deleted. ..twice. Are you a moderator? You’re abusing your position since this reply wasn’t abusive or offensive. Edit: “Apple made it very clear in their keynote the Vision Pro was “spacial computing”, an obscure concept designed to distance the device from VR/AR gaming headsets, specifically to get people to think about productivity.”
Well they can certainly cut costs by getting rid of outward facing eye-projector thingy that doesn't seems to really work anyway. Perhaps you can just stick some googly eyes on them to get the same effect?
Theo, what about having one of this for travel? I love my two 27" 4k monitors on my desk, but when I'm traveling I feel so less productive on the MBP 14" screen. Would you rather have a Vision Pro instead of a Monduo or something like those 2 side screens attachable to the Mac?
Travel is definitely a pretty good use case. There you are, on a train, plane, boat, or just in a cafe, and have this huge space for all your apps. There's a chance people may stick their faces through your apps though, without realising.
I think that Apple isn't supporting multiple monitors for the exact reason you talked about in your video. I think that the plan is for users to be able to just... pick windows out of their screen and put them anywhere they want while they're working which is a MUCH better user experience than the multi-monitor shuffle. I do work with my Quest 3 with Immersed and I use 5 monitors. The issue is that when I shut down my head set, it forgets where all of my windows go and I have to reset everything again and that's just not an ideal user experience... I think Apple realizes that and just didn't offer it because it's not a good solution.
Apple Vision Pro should have a feature to work like if you are inside the desktop, and being able to drag and drop windows and apps while working with physical keyboard. I'm disappointed with the current version but I'm pretty sure they will be releasing updates soon with new features. Also, it would be good to put all the windows on a curve screen to avoid angles and gaps between flat screens. It's very close
I wish there was a feature to expand the virtual monitor horizontally as far as you want, allowing for side-by-side opening of as many windows as needed.
For developer experience you can run the react native app directly on the Vision Pro, as you would do with an iPhone. As you have Safari next to the mac's screen.
For this particular reason they can make special macbook version without screen part paired with wired glasses. With passthrough cameras but without m2 chip on board. Something like vision pro. That would be game changed for this kind of task
Th only problems you mentioned were software, which will come in updates to the device. The hardware is solid, the comfort, the text clarity - I'm sold. Saying "should you buy this to code in... absolutely not" seems like an over-reaction. This is the device we've been waiting for and we need to code in it, feed the ecosystem with cash and critique the experience to get the software updates.
It does, though I haven't found an solid measurements of the exact distance yet. Decent varifocal is still probably at least a few years away (could be 5-10, who knows), though there's lots of nifty research being done. If your virtual screens are placed (virtually) at the right distance, there should be little to no VAC, but if they are too close or too far, then yeah, it should occur. Seems to bother some more than others.
the vision pro feels like it will reach its potential once you can actually take advantage of its functionality as a mixed reality headset for this kind of work without the caveats of needing to still plug in earbuds or not having the ability to create new virtual monitors. it will also be nice when it costs less than two used cars
I know the iPad to me has always been close but still not a good device for coding. And for me the reason is not hardware but Apple wanting to create and experience that is different then what I can do on my Mac. I wonder if the same will happen here if it is always close but Apple tries to make it be something other than a desktop like computer that I can still do my work on (multiple windows, layered windows, all the tooling to have a site show up at local host, terminal etc)
I would expect you can curve any windows in the 3D environnent to make the experience more immersive and avoid skewing effect due to unnecessary perspective. I don't know but if it is disturbing when using it for real but it seems so here.
Why "buy a monitor"? For that price you can buy a few of them! My personal setup involves two ultrawide displays for plenty of screen real estate. The Vision Pro might be more portable, but I make a point of not doing work not at my office setup.
Really hope we eventually get to the point of just being able to code while walking with VR headsets + some special keyboard. Feels so much easier to think while walking compared to sitting down.
Note: the screen recordings look WAY WORSE than what you see on headset. I avoided talking about “foveated rendering” because I didn’t want to scare the normal humans away, maybe a topic for 2nd channel? 🤔
How does it compare to 27" 5k screen?
@@ermiceits a micro oled display with a 4k screen for both eyes. And i heard the pixel density is so good that you basically cant see pixels. And u can make it as huge as a home cinema so ig u cant really compare them...
if you have to not talk about certain topics to not scare "normal humans" maybe they should be scared away ?
I've been wondering when this would be possible since Minority report came out :)
Guess an airplane might be a good use case.
How many readable lines of code / chars per line would you get in a full screen editor/terminal?
(My go-to test when i look for big monitors)
The pass through video for me is a blurry mess. I can’t read anything near me and looking at objects in the distance look blurry. That being said, the vision UI is stupidly sharp, so I’m now wondering if my unit could be defective 😢
I wonder if we end up having VR versions of web apps. we're still at point where a lot of apps doesn't work well on mobile, we still need to build native apps, I can't imagine supporting desktop, mobile, AND VR.
I think it could get a lot easier to make web apps for XR if Apple decides to support it and give them close to the same permissions as native apps.
dont forget the smartwatch
If we do I hope to god we have an open standard.
It uses almost those huge desktop screen size ratio tho, so it would not be that bad.
The web is a paradigm for a single window on a single screen. For VR this is a really tough constraint, because in VR you can have a main window with the stuff you are working on and you can put everything around this without compromising what you see in that main window. Popup windows or additional options can be displayed outside that main frame.
However, quite some programs have started using sidebars that can be collapsed and opened separately. I think this concept will evolve into a concept where those sidepanels open to the outside of the main frame instead of to the inside.
its worth mentioning the recording from the AVP includes it's foveating rendering, which is why things look blurry. It saves processing power by keeping what you're LOOKING at in high res
Another experiment 😂
Yes which is a good thing because it as you said saves processing power, AND it's how our eyes work naturally
From what I understand, there is a way to record full-resolution using the developer tools, but it has to drop frame rate significantly in order to do it.
@@pastuh Clueless
This style makes so much sense for the product review. I think you’re gonna rake in the views Theo. Good stuff I have been considering the vision pro for Dev and this is insightful
This is the same excitement people had (after putting money down and waiting 6 months) in 1984 when
the Macintosh came out. You know things are never going to be the same again.
I used to be a pretty big VR enthusiast (maybe not to your level given all the devices you've owned) and seeing your experience as a developer using this is great. Thank you for investing in this and sharing your experience.
I have a Oculus CV1 (that I haven't used in years), I decided to set away from VR until there was a big jump in resolution. This headset my just be what I was looking for.
Moving windows from Mac into a virtual space is a must. It seems like that would be amazing.
i would love if headset was just for displaying stuff like a monitor (multi monitor from one headset) and laptop was for compute and computer stuff,
I would buy one if it was just virtual windows to replace my monitor.
I don’t want a bunch of other platform specific stuff. I just want monitors.
that's by far the most attractive use case for me
that… is what the headset is for
There are headsets like that already, actually, even higher resolution, just not 3D. Strictly a monitor, no other functionality.
@@toooes nope, the vision pro is also an actual computer. It has its own Apple M series processor inside.
I have no use for this product but im hypnotized by the future potential
There's a skateboarding game for it and it's really, really bad
@@t3dotgg omgggg
What a time to be alive!
Hold onto your papers...
Settle down nerd
this is the same stuff they tried in the 90s but in hd all style but not very useful. vr is fun in games and some other stuff .
This "Peace, Nerds" sign-off with the headset on couldn't have been more apt.
My expectation was dragging a window from the Mac out of the screen and have it floating in space. Instead we got a screen sharing app that supports only a single screen. I am a little disappointed.
Even Meta Workspace and the app Immersed can do 3 screens with a Mac and Quest 3 so I would have expected this device to do more. Especially, given that Apple can change MacOS itself it make it an even better experience while all others have to work around their restrictions.
The quest 3 only has 1 app running at a time, Vision Pro technically lets you have unlimited apps open. And all of those apps except for the screen mirroring are computed locally on Vision Pro. So it’s doing a lot more than the Quest 3 is, computationally
Mac -> AVP screen mirroring has a lot lower latency than Immersed. They will eventually support more but they didn’t want to trade off any input latency, they wanted it to feel like a real monitor.
This and pr0n seem to be the main use cases to be honest.
Stoked for when this is usable for programming. Headset + keyboard as a mobile setup is crazy
I'm personally excited for where this goes. The one thing I really want to see is the ability to drag Mac windows around in space, not limited by the "virtual monitor".
I'm imagining a day when I can put it on, connect to a Mac Studio, and then have a full workspace in whatever room I want to be in. Like remote desktop taken to the next dimension (literally).
I could also see one of the most popular product categories for the Vision Pro being a bracket to combine a Magic Trackpad with a keyboard into one connected piece. There have been a few before but they were of limited utility given that most would still be used on a desk. But having a keyboard and trackpad in your lap suddenly becomes *very* important for the Vision Pro, and I could imagine that a lot of these kinds of products are going to show up. Or, perhaps Apple could make a one-piece keyboard/trackpad for the Vision Pro?
One thing I can notice just by watching the video is the blur in the virtual screens/windows, which I think you didn't quite address (oh, it's in the pinned comment); so to add to Theo's comments in the video, I'll mention that there's this technique called "foveated rendering", which blurs everywhere except the exact area you're looking at, which is what they're using in the Vision Pro, likely to save processing
It's weird to see all the blur because you're not looking at the same points Theo is looking, but from what I've heard it's very comfortable when you're actually using it, the exact point you're looking at is always clear
Thanks. Of all the reviews out there this is one I wanted to see
I kinda feel like it should track real world objects to bring into your immersed mode... The keyboard, the mouse, coffee cup or water bottle. Maybe even pen and paper. Being able to shut out the rest of the world while having select objects with you seems like a huge productivity gain. This doesn't seem too dissimilar from the way people facing you can fade into your immersed space, but ideally should have visual segmentation on par with the hand tracking.
Having owned every oculus headset, I think the passthrough on AVP looks great. It's definitely a leap forward. There are a lot of people that think otherwise, and I'm not sure what they were expecting
That is because they don't know what vr and ar is lol. The product is the best technology ever is just people who complain are just ignorants
@@toututu2993 How Einstein said everything is measured from point of view of observer. They compare passthrough from real life, because that is there point of from where they measure it. For us its other headset.
The review I was waiting for.. very cool -thanks for sharing ✌️
I code everyday using xreal air glasses. Work great!
Great solution if your IPD is in the right range (mine is not), and you can handle panel resolution of 1920x1080 (per eye). You can get a few more vertical pixels using Rokid Max (1920x1200). PPD is surprisingly good for these birdbath glasses, very lightweight, but they have to be plugged in at all times, no onboard battery (like AVP).
Hm, I thought I could easily refrain from buying this product but this is the first overview I have seen which has really captured my interest… it makes me excited for the future for sure.
This is a really well done video. Thank you.
You should’ve added the #AD in the Title and Thumbnail too
This is the precise review that I've hoped someone with knowledge, experience and great communication skills would make, since I first heard about the Vision Pro. Thanks.
I really like coding in Meta Quest 3 (using Immersed app)
I have used Immersed in the Quest 3 and Pro and the resolution and overall experience just wasn't there for me unfortunately.
I've even done coding in an Index, though I recognise it's bad. Thinking of getting a Quest3 to do coding while travelling with soon.
Me too. This is what I currently use as a portable multi-screen setup. My home office with three screens is still better but we are getting close!
Same, although I reallyyyy wish that it had a 4K per eye micro-OLED......
Maybe the Quest 4 will get us there
If using Immersed with a Mac, be sure to mess with (on the Mac side) "Settings" ➝ "Advanced" ➝ "Retina Display Quality". "10" is what you want for reading smaller text, assuming it doesn't hurt latency. "Encode Quality" doesn't seem to be as important for text -- as long as you don't go lower than "Medium" -- though it does help with images. I tried supersampling (using "Quest Games Optimizer"), but it seemed to only improve the UI, I couldn't tell a difference in the virtual screen.
Watching this in my Meta Quest pro
Am I the only one who thinks the most interesting part of this video is actually seeing Theo's broadcast setup? I never would have guessed he uses a teleprompter, his speaking sounds really natural. Kudos on that!
Just a reminder, we said “so close” on the iPad, but hopefull Apple will learn
Thank you for making this video Theo! This is exactly what I was interested in - software development & productivity with the vision pro
The only way I'll ever use a device like this is if it comes in the form factor of actual glasses and can just be switched off and used as normal glasses throughout the day
Nice, this is the review I was waiting for :D
Thanks for sharing your experience🙏 so interesting to see
I think multiple digital screens are very useful but spatial computing is giving the mobile device preview as a 3D model of the device in your hand with the screen running your code. I don't think the flying screens are representative of spatial computing.
Virtually infinite screen real-estate sounds really awesome. If it becomes affordable and can properly integrate with my desktop, it's definitely something I would consider. I have 3 monitors, and it's never enough. I'm considering getting a fourth one, but I don't know where it would fit on my desk lol. Also I'm running out of ports on my laptop to connect all of them.
Depends on your use case, but as a developer getting more vertical pixels is important,
so i use 4 or 5 1440p monitors in portrait mode.
up to 7200x2560 pixels, but some windows have to span monitors
I'm not believing I will ever Code in this. There is a reason we like buttons with feedback. For example, light switches or keyboards. You don't look at what you're pressing, you have muscle memory for it. This certainly slows down productivity and learning curve.
And only for more width, sounds like you should consider a proper desk setup with multiple monitors that have the width you need to work the best.
Looking straight ahead and not down: Get a proper desk and chair.
I really hoped they made macOS windows native for the VR, thank you for checking this use case.
I've been waiting for this video from someone, thanks Theo!
Thank you for the honest and thorough review!
It's crazy that's it seems to be another device from Apple that is hold back not by the hardware, but by software. iPads could be perfect for development - but no support for profesional tools. I'm so hyped for the monitorless future
Hmm almost think its better if you used virtual desktops and swap them via a keybind than turn your head
I’ve probably spent close to 24 hours in my headset so far and I actually really like the solo-loop band 🤷♂ I just keep it kind of loose and set it higher up on the back of my head
I wish there was a way to know if/when Apple will allow for multiple Mac windows on the AVP; it's one of the few things holding it back from being superior to the desktop experience.
I use 2x 1440p 27” for dev work. Didn’t really feel the need to jump on 4K train. Maybe with bigger displays it would make sense but my desk will not take bigger displays. My first thought about Vision Pro was „I want multiple virtual displays” but „I want to drag windows around in 3D space” sounds so much more promising:) Still, a lot of things to be solved to make this work - might me as much software as hardware, but just like with iPhone we’re likely to see huge leaps in first 3-4 generations.
Gah, I've watched a ton of reviews, but this was the first time I really understood. As SOON as you can pull out windows into space, and the paradigm of the monitor goes away, it will be an amazing coding platform.
I think you did what we all where thinking about, cant wait till its ready for dev use.
I've been using the Quest (pro and 3) for coding, they are actually not bad. Takes some getting used to though.
Ah i was hoping apple would do something like ask you how many virtual displays youd like when connecting, and let you add or remove more.
Have you considered using one of those glasses based XR displays instead? Yes it is just an external display and doesn't have much processing power of its own, but there's ways to have multimonitor support. You still would be using your normal computer and keyboard and such, but it might be a workflow that lets you do it just in those displays.
The one meaningful review I was waiting for! Thanks!
"I like this thing enough that I'll personally be keeping it"
His wallet:
Man all I want is an AR headset I can plug into a tiny laptop and use as virtual monitors in a cafe so I can properly work remotely while travelling. This is so close… hopefully something similar for windows isn’t too far off.
Your channel is great. Thank you for this. Really interesting
This will be neat as portable dev setup in a few years
"Without a macbook, Vision Pro is a toy, and not even a very good one."
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SAYING IT OUT LOUD!
Honestly the way you describe it, I wouldn't like the vision pro.
I had a better time using a Rift S from as far back as 2019 than I would using the vision pro. The gains in size, weight, and speed are lost in software quality. And 2019 Oculus software wasn't even that good. The thing is, the inability to take any window from your computer and giving it its own space just doesn't feel right.
Even with my old headset, I can do whatever I want with my PC's monitors & windows. While I need to switch to the right window (alt-tabbing or clicking on it with the joystick), it's still way more usable than whatever this is.
This is exciting! Thanks for sharing!
Big the main goal is to be able to code-on-the-go without a laptop. We're still much farther away from that since the macbook is still a requirement.
You can definitely do that now with code server or some web-based SSH until a better app is released, as long as I can get into neovim I'm chillin. I think this'll be more like an iPad and will be frustrated we can't compile directly on the device.
We need to give as much feedback as possible to evolve this experience. So excited for the future of this platform
the book dreampark describes spectated vr enhanced dnd larps with teams of adventurers, a fully sedigned and integrated set and adventurers using augmented reality for their powers.
The dungeon masters are described as being part director part programmer in a closet like environment with controls at their hands and feet and on voice control. it sounds like the apple pro is a step towards being the dm in this style of game
Your lighting is insane
What meta is doing with their avatars is a more interesting use case. I'd actually wear one if it felt the people i talk to are right there next to me
these back to back videos are awesome
You should throw one of those "crowns" for reading brain signals into the mix, then think of code instead of typing it. And also one of those helmets where you can put 2 cans of water. Stay hydrated!
I was kicking the idea around of doing an open source desktop environment for Linux that is in VR like this since virtual desktop doesn't run on linux. I have seen another project of it already called Simula done in Godot, but I have no idea how fleshed out it is.
I am used to staying in VR for hours and I own an AVP which I agree it is a different device with amazing aesthetic experience. However, differently than the Quest that you can buy a BoboVR or another comfortable strap, the AVP comes with an additional headstrap with one strap in the top of the head. That should work, but the device is too heavy and the strap that goes in the back of the head is not angled enough to hold it to make the strap in the top of the head useful. The face gets red and my checks smashed after 1 hour. I might be more sensitive and and tryingvto be flexible understanding that people fell confort differently. How are you staying 7 hours? Are you resting every x hours? Are you adding an extra cushion?
I find that small text is not comfortable to read, and I tend to keep the font very small when coding.
We need multiple display setups and low price or specific for coding environments
I code every day in AR with the Xreal Air 2, easy, cheap, works down to the bios level.
Theo: Has been coding for 15 years, spent 7 hours on coding the project
The project: „Hello vision pro!!!“
@t3dotgg everyone talks about having a MacBook, but what about a Mac Studio? Would it work with the Vision Pro? Considering it's very early I wonder if it would also work with it.
Great video. To be fair, Apple made it very clear in their keynote the Vision Pro was spacial computing a made up name specifically to get people to think about productivity. Media consumption yes, gaming-barely mentioned. The Universal Control feature allows an attached Mac or bluetooth magic keyboard and trackpad to navigate all the windows. I’d use that or Siri to navigate. I don’t understand who would peck on that virtual keyboard. It’s more like a “in case of an emergency” option to me.
Edit for petty people:
“Apple made it very clear in their keynote the Vision Pro was “spacial computing”, an obscure concept designed to distance the device from VR/AR gaming headsets, specifically to get people to think about productivity.”
Fun fact, Apple didn't come up with "spatial computing": en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spatial_computing
@@mikeyr5275Edit: “Apple made it very clear in their keynote the Vision Pro was “spacial computing”, an obscure concept designed to distance the device from VR/AR gaming headsets, specifically to get people to think about productivity.”
@@mikeyr5275 Edit: “Apple made it very clear in their keynote the Vision Pro was “spacial computing”, an obscure concept designed to distance the device from VR/AR gaming headsets, specifically to get people to think about productivity.”
@@mikeyr5275 what an insecure little boy you are. My response was deleted. ..twice. Are you a moderator? You’re abusing your position since this reply wasn’t abusive or offensive.
Edit: “Apple made it very clear in their keynote the Vision Pro was “spacial computing”, an obscure concept designed to distance the device from VR/AR gaming headsets, specifically to get people to think about productivity.”
Well they can certainly cut costs by getting rid of outward facing eye-projector thingy that doesn't seems to really work anyway. Perhaps you can just stick some googly eyes on them to get the same effect?
Theo, what about having one of this for travel? I love my two 27" 4k monitors on my desk, but when I'm traveling I feel so less productive on the MBP 14" screen. Would you rather have a Vision Pro instead of a Monduo or something like those 2 side screens attachable to the Mac?
Travel is definitely a pretty good use case. There you are, on a train, plane, boat, or just in a cafe, and have this huge space for all your apps. There's a chance people may stick their faces through your apps though, without realising.
this is exactly the review i was looking for
I think that Apple isn't supporting multiple monitors for the exact reason you talked about in your video. I think that the plan is for users to be able to just... pick windows out of their screen and put them anywhere they want while they're working which is a MUCH better user experience than the multi-monitor shuffle. I do work with my Quest 3 with Immersed and I use 5 monitors. The issue is that when I shut down my head set, it forgets where all of my windows go and I have to reset everything again and that's just not an ideal user experience...
I think Apple realizes that and just didn't offer it because it's not a good solution.
Apple Vision Pro should have a feature to work like if you are inside the desktop, and being able to drag and drop windows and apps while working with physical keyboard. I'm disappointed with the current version but I'm pretty sure they will be releasing updates soon with new features. Also, it would be good to put all the windows on a curve screen to avoid angles and gaps between flat screens. It's very close
I wish there was a feature to expand the virtual monitor horizontally as far as you want, allowing for side-by-side opening of as many windows as needed.
Thanks for the review.
I actually keep in mind for coding with this.
But I also think that the first gen of this thing will have some problem.
The screen is insanely good, or Insanely Great
02:10 thanks god at least one clearly explained reality.
For developer experience you can run the react native app directly on the Vision Pro, as you would do with an iPhone. As you have Safari next to the mac's screen.
I would consider buying if you could connect a Windows pc but right now it seems way too locked down. Will have to wait for a more open competitor
For this particular reason they can make special macbook version without screen part paired with wired glasses. With passthrough cameras but without m2 chip on board. Something like vision pro. That would be game changed for this kind of task
Th only problems you mentioned were software, which will come in updates to the device. The hardware is solid, the comfort, the text clarity - I'm sold. Saying "should you buy this to code in... absolutely not" seems like an over-reaction. This is the device we've been waiting for and we need to code in it, feed the ecosystem with cash and critique the experience to get the software updates.
Welcome to my vr family.
Here's my customized mom and dad
I’m headed to the Apple Store. Love you boys.
Interesting video thank you. Did you notice any discomfort from the vergence-accommodation conflict? Vision pro has fixed focal distance right?
It does, though I haven't found an solid measurements of the exact distance yet. Decent varifocal is still probably at least a few years away (could be 5-10, who knows), though there's lots of nifty research being done.
If your virtual screens are placed (virtually) at the right distance, there should be little to no VAC, but if they are too close or too far, then yeah, it should occur. Seems to bother some more than others.
Good warning in the beginning..
Baggy eyes tell a different story, I can't imagine people using this on a daily basis
Wow! Apple is only 7 years behind the Microsoft Hololens! good job!
the vision pro feels like it will reach its potential once you can actually take advantage of its functionality as a mixed reality headset for this kind of work without the caveats of needing to still plug in earbuds or not having the ability to create new virtual monitors. it will also be nice when it costs less than two used cars
You can add a second solo knit band to the headset with a 3d printed part
5:33 maybe using code-server in Vision Pro's safari?
I know the iPad to me has always been close but still not a good device for coding. And for me the reason is not hardware but Apple wanting to create and experience that is different then what I can do on my Mac. I wonder if the same will happen here if it is always close but Apple tries to make it be something other than a desktop like computer that I can still do my work on (multiple windows, layered windows, all the tooling to have a site show up at local host, terminal etc)
I would expect you can curve any windows in the 3D environnent to make the experience more immersive and avoid skewing effect due to unnecessary perspective. I don't know but if it is disturbing when using it for real but it seems so here.
Why "buy a monitor"? For that price you can buy a few of them! My personal setup involves two ultrawide displays for plenty of screen real estate. The Vision Pro might be more portable, but I make a point of not doing work not at my office setup.
Most excited thing i got in Apple Vision Pro that Theo have teleprompter
When I tested it I made the display so huge that I could fit multiple programs open at the same time
Really hope we eventually get to the point of just being able to code while walking with VR headsets + some special keyboard. Feels so much easier to think while walking compared to sitting down.
Could see them making expensive space shuttle white haptic gloves