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Does A Song of Ice and Fire Have A Future?
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- Опубліковано 10 бер 2023
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It's been many years since George R.R. Martin's first book in the A Song of Ice and Fire series, A Game of Thrones, was released. Since then his writing speed has slowed significantly, until now it's been nearly twelve years since the release of his last book. At an age of 74, the chances that he'll finish the last two books still remaining in the asoiaf series, The Winds of Winter, and A Dream of Spring, looks bleak. In this video We'll discuss the future of A Song of Ice and Fire.
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#asoiaf #asongoficeandfire #grrm #georgerrmartin #windsofwinter #gameofthrones #book #books #fantasy #fantasybooks #fantasybook #westeros
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I’ve watched GOT all the way through MANY times. Now I’m reading ASOIAF. I’m about halfway through the 2nd book, A Clash of Kings.
It's 2040, George R. R. Martin promises he's still working on A Song of Ice and Fire despite being dead for 10 years
What is dead will rise again
@Turtle Anton what is dead may never die
Gonna leave this here just in case he does die in 2030
what is dead may never die
😂
After seeing what happened with Wheel of Time, I have at least some confidence that someone will bring closure to this series no matter what happens. I just hope George has the wisdom to recognize when he passes the point of no return with his own energy and health. Rather than watch someone like Brandon Saunderson pick up the pieces after his death, wouldn’t it be better for George himself to work through a writing team? I believe he does this a little already - he’s talked about his two assistants who help him keep all the lore straight. I hope he has the humility to ask for all the help he really needs. We know that’s not zero help, at this point. Only he can answer how much help he needs to close this series right. After the way the show got away from him, maybe he’s gun shy about losing control. I hope he finds a way to get the best of help + control and finish the book on his terms with time left over to enjoy the last chapters of his life.
He has already stated that the series dies with him...
@@LuigiL75 until his nephew sell the rights to the story lol
@@eddardstark6179 Nah...won't happen, he already stated that the story dies with him because he saw what happened to Tolkien.
@@LuigiL75 tolkien son said basically said the same thing and that didnt stop rings of power from becoming a thing, when money is at stake persons last will is gonna be ignored...by 2040 we are getting the ending of asoiaf one way or another lol
@@eddardstark6179 You and I both know that abomination has NOTHING to do with Tolkien...
The only way I could imagine Dream of Spring possibly coming out (in George's lifetime) would be if he had a straight line to the finish in sight, no more loose ends or unresolved plot threads to still figure out, which could allow for a more stream lined approach to his writing process. If he still has a bunch of problems left yet to be solved (as he did for Winds) it will never be completed by him alone.
I’ve heard veterans describe combat as happening “very slowly then all at once”. That might be the case here.
thats why im hoping winds really streamlines the narrative - thing is though, I'm of the opinion that unless George has some crazy magic powers, he wont be able to finish the story in only 2 books...
If Cormac McCarthy is able to make two great novels at 89. I have my hopes for this one, plus both are from Sante Fe, NM!
We have hope!
RIP
Great point!
Is there an equivalent to Koji Mori for GRRM? Mori was the best friend of Kentaro Miura, the mangaka for Berserk, and an author as well. Miura gave him an outline for the end and throughout his life would bounce ideas with Mori. Koji Mori even helped Miura draw the infamous eclipse scene.
My hope is that George knows he has written himself into a corner, and is taking to long because he is writing Dream in addition to Winds, to ensure they line up with one another and all the POV characters that make it into Dream reach a satisfying conclusion.
So in my best hopes, when Winds is published, Dream could be 75% done.
This is my fools hope
Winds WILL drop, probably not this year but next year or the year after. Once that is done GRRM will be well into the writing process of Dream and it will be a lot easier for him to write it, knowing that the story is reaching the conclusion
🙏
Thats sure is a Rosey view. Wish i had your faith in GRRM
@@travissmith6380 I'm sure GRRM would also like closure on the work that changed his life, and changed the modern fantasy landscape. Even now, I can very easily see him describing ADOS as the swan song of his literary life, coinciding with the swan song of his actual life, in a notablog post XD. There's literally no thought to go into ADOS either, really, from his point of view; TWOW is where untangling all the knots in the plot happens. Once TWOW is done, ADOS should be a breeze to write.
@Bane's Basement we have all been saying this for years....he is CHOOSING to put ASOIAF on the backburner while diving into dozens of other projects. Talking like ADOS will be super quick is ludicrous
Oh my sweet summer child.
I already asume that wi will NEVER read the last book. My only hope is that maybe, just maybe, we will read Winds of winter. But not before 2025 or 2026. It is even posible that we’ll read Winter, unfinished, after he passes away. 🤷🏻♂️
It would be great if George just admitted that the story is now too big for him, and he decided to finish Winds and Dreams with Abercrombie. 😬😬😬
It’s still his story not there’s to tell. I think we will get Winds one way or the other there’s no way his estate or book publisher wouldn’t publish it even if it is unfinished too much money to be made. Dreams of Spring I’ve given up hope for
Preston jacobs and his crew of writers/editors should finish it. They already are and have completed several fan fiction chapters for Winds that are great
A Great Council will be held to determine who will finish it. Preston Jacobs, Ty Franck, Daniel Abraham and Brandon Sanderson will be our chocies
Yeah and Preston Jacobs thinks Jon isn't the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna when he obviously is at this point. No thanks.
Just finished Dance a few days ago. Ok so I'm ready for Winds to come out now. Sorry ya'll bit George was just waiting for me to catch up lol
Unless George gets someone else to finish ASOIAF, it's never gonna be finished even if he does finally finish Winds of Winter.
Awesome video! I'm currently making my way through Game of Thrones, and I'm really getting into it. I will definitely be continuing with this series, despite it not being finished.
It's obvious that he has overwritten every single time he releases. He is going to be nearly done with ADOS by the time we see TWOW.
Authors owe us nothing. Whether or not he finishes is irrelevant. I hope he does, but it doesn't change the legendary status his story has achieved.
I agree
We made him rich by buying THIS series. We paid for him to finish the story. He does kind of owe us.
@tristananleu4677 you bought the books you paid for nothing more. You are not entitled to more. He is not indebted to you. You bought his product for the requested price. That is it.
When you sell a series, you are selling a SERIES. You are asking a consumer to buy into a SERIES, a one day complete arc.
If I sell you my painting services, and tell you "Hey, pay as we go, and we will soon have your whole house done" and then I screw off, you would rightly be upset. Did you pay for those other portions of your house yet? No, but you and I had an understanding that the job would be completed, then I backed out.
@@tristananleu4677 I want very badly to see the story concluded too but no, you bought a product, that doesn't entitle you to all future products.
I want him to finish too, but he hasn't lied or stolen from us. The worst case is that he's letting us down by not finishing.
It's 2056, and Robo Martin goes on The Clone Colbert Show stating that The Winds of Winter is 99.1% complete.
He also confirms that he must finish 12 Dunk and Eggs, 14 Targaryen history books, and an Elden Ring sequel. Then A Dream of Spring.
I don't care anymore. Let him enjoy his money.
I loved a song of ice and fire. I have reread it at least 10 times. I have books highlighted and theories wrote down. It was my favorite books series. I read the books before the show. I hate I got so into them. It was a waste of time. We may get winds but we will not get the last one. GRRM has said he doesn’t want the series finished if he passes away and that sucks.
I think Tad Williams would be a great choice to finish the series. The dirty secret in the ASOIAF fandom is how much Williams' Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn series was an influence on Martin writing ASOIAF. And when we talk about how big the influence is it should be noted I don't think anyone reading both series could ever miss it. I wonder if we could get a supergroup of Williams, Abercrombie and maybe Ty Franck (1/2 of Expanse author super group James S.A. Corey who also worked as a writing assistant to GRRM and probably has the most firsthand knowledge of his process and where the bodies are buried so to speak). That might seem overkill but I think the finishing of this series will be one of the landmark moments in sci-fi/fantasy literature history
I’m about 60% through The Dragonbone Chair currently, and I am shocked at how clear the influence is on ASOIAF. Just within the lore there is a lot I’ve noticed already: Sithi = COTF, Norns = the Others, Hernystiri paganism = worship of the old gods, and so much more.
11 months after this video was posted and GRRM STILL says he’s 75% done with TWOW…😟
According to eh US Social Security Administration, a 74 year old male (average) has 11.05 years to live. More than enough time to complete the series. Martin has called "A Song of Ice and Fire" his Magnum Opus. I doubt that he wants to leave it unfinished. Hopefully as he ages, he understands that to leave the completed series as his legacy to the world, he needs to get some serious writing done. When it is completed, I imagine he will feel a big sense of relief, and he can then play around with all of his other priorities and just have fun in his golden years.
I believe only a historical fiction writer would be adequate for finishing the series. The style of ASOIAF is a lot more akin to historical fiction than any fantasy I've read.
The whole "doesn't want to spend time writing it" thing is stupid. The publisher should hire a team of ghost writers and allow him to sit on his ass eating bon-bons while dictating the broad strokes of the story. Good enough writers and editors could make the tone and voice indistinguishable. They could make it discreet and confidential so he wouldn't be embarrassed. I know he's set for money already but you would think he would want to leave it as a complete set after he died, not an unfulfilling series.
Not to mention the dunk and egg stories in between plus I read he wanted to do a part 2 to fire and blood
I'd say it right to his face if given the chance. Hire a ghostwriter. You have distractions. You want to enjoy your sunset years. That's fine. HIRE A GHOSTWRITER.
Dream is probably going to be way easier to write since Martin described it as an epilogue as opposed to a conclusion.
I think we'll see Winds in our lifetime. Not Dream of Spring though. I'm not even sure GRRM can finish the series in 7 books.
He’ll have some massacre of characters in WoW most likely so there will be less POV and stories going on making Dreams of Spring easier to write most likely
According to social security (actuarial table) George has 11.05 years to live.
LOL no. He is not even going to release the next book. He clearly wrote himself into a corner and did not know how to finish it. Plus, the TV show had his ending and people hated it. (I know people are very in denial about this. But denial is not just a river in Egypt. His ideas for the ending were what was onscreen.) So he would rather have people yearn for some magical "better" story than write the books and prove no he didn't. He already got paid, so I kind of do not blame him. Yes, I do think he maybe kicks the sixth book around every once in a while when bored and clearly has material for it (he has released some chapters) hoping for some "inspiration" to come. But it has been 12 years, it is not happening.
Hope he has loads of DOS already written, since it's been so damn long.
C, Mon George man pls.
People should just give up on A Dream of Spring. TWOW still has a chance but that’s it.
From Fire and Blood and House of the Dragon. It really seems like George has spent the last decade making sure the series lives much longer than himself. There are apparently like 8 more spin off shows planned and I imagined George layed out the shows himself.
I do believe Winds of Winter will release, likely around 2025. I am much less optimistic of A dream of spring however, but George has shown with Fire and Blood and The World of Ice and Fire that he is willing to have others do the bulk of the writing as long as he oversees it.
Does this mean George will have someone co-write the final book if his health starts failing? Maybe, but I don't know him so I can't exactly say for certain. I do think he cares deeply for the series and wants to see it finish as much as everyone else
Im going to throw my tin hat theory out there.
The winds of winter and a dream of spring are the same book. Like Feast and Dance a Winds of Winter will be split into the last two books. I believe the whole story is about complete.
The reason I feel we may not see both released anytime soon is because of two factors. One there are many new shows in production. If the final books are released and not received well, show interest may also decline. The second reason we may only get one of the books. Is because he doesn’t want it to be released until after he passes. Almost like a last laugh. You all thought I wouldn’t finish the story. But I did here it is. He seems like the kind of person who would do just that.
I want to believe that this is true
And it's taken me over a year to get thru the first 2
Considering that he had to go HBO and put his foot down on the HotD writers with rewrites for season 2 I seriously doubt we'll get Winds anytime soon
I firmly believe they are complete but he doesnt want to release them until he is deceased
Tolkien intended to write a sequel for LOTR, The New Shadow, but he later chose not to, and instead opted to end with the LOTR series, since he saw the sequel unnecessary and let it end in the way it should be.
But Martin seems to forget this lesson.
I really feel like making a video like this is pretty shitty man. Idk if I’m right but I just feel that at the very least, it’s not helping. It’s not easy to get books done when there’s that much pressure to deliver
It's not intended to pressure anybody, but just discuss the future of a book series we love. And let's be honest, It's not like he's going to see this either way. 🤷♂️
Ah yes...NGL...as someone that has been going though this since 1999, it's kind of nice to see more people being sucked into "THE HURT". Short answer...it's not going to happen boys and girls.
Great video!! I watched this and immediately subscribed
Video is full of information... And i was thinking the same for a long time
Probably not a popular opinion, but I would never finish a series completed by another author. I would never be able to convince myself nothing was changed. I would be able to convince myself it didn't feel like a fake or like fanfic. I would never read Sanderson's WoT books. His other books sure. It's not about ability or not liking him. If the end of asoiaf isn't pure GRRM, it just isn't worth having. I can't read anything completed by Christopher Tolkien as if it were his father's. Those works will never have the same value to me.
No sadly. I don’t think he’s interested in finishing the books anymore
I could get it if it was the Im 74 and want to spent time with Family....But its not. Its more like im 74 and want to write WILDCARD books,travel to any and EVERY CON that i can speak at and make coffee table books for House of the D
He can do whatever he wants with his retirement.
@Jonathan He's not retired....just from ASOIAF I guess. he's actively working on a ton of stuff. do you love the wildcard books.ive never met someone who read them
Come on George give us winds of winter and dream of spring. I finish reading a dance of dragons back In middle school and now i' am in college come on man
Martin is on recod as saying that he doesn't want anyone else finish the series if he dies.
I'm about to start a storm of swords
I don't think Joe Abercrombie would be a good replacement for GRRM. His tone is entirely different, and I don't think it would fit ASOIAF at all. Just cause he is another author making "grim dark" fantasy doesn't mean their respective styles can work together. Although I like Neil Gaiman a lot more, having him replace GRRM would probably turn out even weirder...
Doesn't the IP technically belong to HBO? Could they potentially have the final say as to what would happen in the event that GRRM passes away?
Naw Joe Abercrombie is no where near George’s level. He’s never done anything close to the level of scale of ASOIAF.
short answer: no
he wants imitate tolkien
I honestly don't think he wants to finish.
Well there's always fanfiction if he doesn't finish it.
They will put it put even IF he dies I bet
Winds will be finished, but never Dreams.
I have the feeling that man does not even want to finnish his books.
they need R.A Salvador to finish the series
He has lost the story. He makes excuses that he is an architect or whatever but the truth is that he has no idea.
Not a chance
god won't take him if he do not finish the last two books
At this point, who cares?
Well if you don't care then why are you here?
Who are some others besides Abercrombie ? Don’t think Neil gaiman is a good fit, don’t know anything about Stephenson
I think some people have suggested the authors of The Expanse, who like Stephenson are sci-fi writers. Can't say I know too much about them, except for the fact that it's two people, and apparently they do great at worldbuilding.
I think Neil Gaiman *might* be able to pull it off, simply because he's got a gift for mimicking the style of other writers, though he's generally too whimsical in his own work to do ASOIAF justice without GRRM's guidance. Stephenson could possibly do it, if someone could remind him to stick to the story and remember that he's writing in the middle ages, and not to include entire chapters that read like programming manuals. He's certainly enough of a world builder and got a dark enough tone to manage it. I'd almost suggest N.K Jemisin if she wasn't so busy with her own work, because her writing is beautiful, dark, and subverts sci-fi and fantasy tropes all over the place, but I doubt that a large segment of GRRM's fanboy base would be happy with having a black woman involved in his work in any way. Which is a sad shame.
please
No.
0 hope....🤷♂️💯
Does any book fan care anymore?
The show was toilet.
Dude why is your head moving around like you are possessed?
You should be ashamed of yourself.. there is more to life then finishing some fantasy books. That man deserves to enjoy every second of his success and not work all the time. You talk about him dying with 0 empathy, your only concern is your entertainment.. he doesn’t owe anyone anything. His fans need to treat this genius with more respect
Maybe if he hadn’t lied countless times to his fans he’d get a little more leeway
Kinda wild comment, considering I prefaced the video with JUST that exact message. I just chose to focus on hypotheticals that concerns the people watching, and didn't comment for a second about whether he _should_ finish it, or _should_ be hurried if he doesn't want to. This video is purely about how the future of the series looks...
You didn't even watch before posting did you?
cope
Lmao no. I think we get Winds during 2026 or 2027 at the earliest. It’ll be more than 15 years between books by the time we finally get Winds. There is no way George lives another 18-20 years. He’s unhealthy and doesn’t take care of himself. We’ll be lucky if he lives a few more years to finish Winds.
You got a pretty mouth , boy