Charmed | Was There A Leo Problem?
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- Опубліковано 9 гру 2024
- #charmedreboot #briankrause
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Young Brian Krause just looked real good in a pair of blue jeans and it snowballed from there.
Also each season he grew like 5 years
I only recently found out that Leo was 18 when he died in WW2 so that's the age he's meant to be locked at
@@BetterWithBob I was 7 at the time lol
Wow....that's a...STRONG 18, I gotta say. @@BetterWithBob
@@BetterWithBob damn I thought he was in his 20s when he died, he's still hot, but I never got 18
I liked the dynamic between Cole and Leo, how they both were knowledgeable about all things supernatural, so they played off each other, and had a special bond and understanding. I always wanted a Cole\Leo episode to further explore their unique friendship.
I think it also showed how Julian can make connections with lots of different characters.
Yeah I really liked the bits in Brain Drain and Muse To My Ears of them teaming up in the Underworld
I like that he was also close with Phoebe, which started in the middle of season 1 with Phoebe being the first to find out he was a white lighter. In season 3 she asked him for help for Cole. He was also the first one she confessed to, she didn't vanquish Cole. Speaking of Cole, I like their bro moments (first half of season 4), too bad there weren't more of them! When they were fighting in the underworld against the source, they were a pretty good team.
I actually quite liked those too, especially in Brain Drain
I wonder if their "bro moments" came more naturally because the actors were both dating at the time.
I was expecting a reference to the constant BULLYING and abusive behavior that Leo had to suffer from the sisters through all the seasons😅
How so?
Lmao everyone is talking about this and I don't see it
@@BetterWithBob "Leooo can you drop the kids off at dads?". "Leeeoooo go get the dry cleaning!" "Leeeoooo can you fix the sink?" I loved when he finally blew off that steam. I won't go so far as to say the girls outright bully him, but there is some form of abuse that he does suffer being their whitelighter. Paige uses him as a crash test dummy since he's already dead, Piper walks over him multiple times at various points, Phoebe tends to just boss him around but to a lesser extent, even Prue was a bit harsh with him when she needed stuff/info from him but typically it was urgent.
@BetterWithBob Have you watched Charmed is a mess series? 😂
@@isaiahcaston4539Exactly!!!
One of the best Leo moments EVER was when he jolted across that attic so damn fast and orbed Piper out barely missing Bacarra’s fireball. For someone who was in the background that episode, Leo nailed it towards the end by not only saving his future family line but the Halliwell line entirely with that great idea of his for Piper to go back in time to save Phoebe and Paige.
Oh yes, very cool
What is disturbing he had another wife in the past in WW2 at least he could have fight for her to be with Lillian I just can't believe that he fell in love with Piper and he did not figure out how to go back in the past to be Lillian I do not think personally they are meant to be together Piper and Leo because now I see clearly how their relationship it's very toxic and it doesn't match up with Piper what she wants if she would have stayed up wit Dan I'm sure her relationship would be would be different
What is Piper she never broke up with Dan that will be a different timeline and Leo would have stayed an elder
Have you watched The Charmed fandom trailer because about the Warren cousins could you do a review on and explain your thoughts about the fandom trailer 26:47 @@BetterWithBob
Absolutely agree. Though, had he failed, he probably would've just gone back in time himself.
The longer the show went on, the more Piper treated Leo like a doormat.
He called her on it
I don't see it lmao
@@Tbird0724You don’t see which part? The Piper treating him like a doormat? Because yes she definitely does but not all the time. He has also called her out on it many times
That's just who his character is. Piper didn't "treat" him any way different than how they're all usually treated, they're just kind of boring.
Fr
You are killing the Charmed content. I can not wait until you did 'The Chris Problem' video!!!!
I concur.
That'll be a tough one lol
@@BetterWithBob especially when Chris almost slept with the demon who was impostering his mother 😖
I grew to love Chris tho😢 ❤❤❤I'm excited to hear Bob's character assessment
Also keep in mind once they saved Wyatt, they changed the future and Chris was a different man (technically) by the end of the season
Leo hiding his identity at first, is not really a plot hole or a problem or mistake. I would argue that this was done on purpose. The sisters needed to prove they could do this without a direct help from anyone. Their whole life was hidden from them, they were bound from their powers and had no idea they were witches because their own grandmother didn't even think they were ready. She bound their powers and was even ready to strip them from their powers for good before she collapsed and died because they were not ready. Another point to think of, we learn in season 4 that a new witch has the chance to choose sides, good or evil WITHOUT any intervention from either side. Perhaps the elders didn't want the sisters to know about them or about guardian angels so they would let them choose to be good on their own.
I've always liked Leo. And I think so of the "issues" I get around, like I feel while Leo saw Piper as a baby (this likely from being a friend of Penny's), it's not like he was stalking her. The proof is in the show, he didn't know what she (or Prue) were like as teenagers. Leo kept watch from a distance and when they didn't have their powers, he didn't at all.
Yeah I don't find that stuff particularly gross either. He probably wouldn't have even been involved in their lives after their powers were bound.
@@BetterWithBob In comics it's revealed he earned the position as their whitelighter long before they were born, so he knew of their existence, but likely wouldn't have interfered with anything since Patty and Penny were clearly already teaching the girls and that "mystical 48 hour window" would have long past
@@BetterWithBob his"Killing/going rogue for the greater good" arc is my favorite arc of Leo's
As you said it was great character development and they never just shut it off it continued throughout the series
kinda like a nicer version of a god.
It's STILL creepy though!
Theory: The Elders knew Paige existed as soon as she was born. Piper was meant to die in Awakened and they would just replace her with Paige. They foresaw Piper and Leo’s future and offspring and didn’t want that to happen. Thats why they were willing to let her die. But Leo said fuck that and here we are now 🤷🏾♂️ The Elders are evil. That is my theory lmao
Ooh good theory
PLEASE make a video about Chris’ strange story arc and your take on it. Season 6 was something else but still entertaining…but the character of Chris jumped around so much 😂
That'll be a hard one to tackle because I remember Chris being one of my favourite characters as a kid because I related to him so much, even though he is quite messy from a writing POV
@@BetterWithBob would be interesting to get your perspective of him.
Season 6 was probably my least favorite next to 8, but it did have some good eps in it !
@@BetterWithBob Yes he was my favorite too. He would be great if the writing was better. He had so much potential. He worked with damons and everything and he wasn´t afraid to teach them lessons hard way. I need episode with Chris. Episode with angel of death would be great if Simon Templeman was there.
I want a "Why Chris Perry Should Have Been Vanquished Earlier in S6" video but Bob likes the character too much so I'll never get that video 😭
And yes I call him by his real name. Chris Perry! Because everyone just seemed to forget his name that he told us with his mouth in S5.
I don't forget these things...
I think on the House of Halliwell Podcast, it was confirmed that the character of Leo wasn’t planned. Brian Krause had no idea he was going to be a main character. I too really like that despite being pulled from season eight, it made for a great storyline and motivation for Piper. While also, showcasing the lengths she’d go through to get Leo back (i.e. killing Billie and Christy).
PS: I love the content you put out, especially the Charmed content! I think you make some very great points and do a great job at illustrating evidence from the show! 🫶🏼
Thank you :)
I already said this in the chat, but I really enjoyed this one. I like how you summarized Leo's development throughout the seasons.
Thank you for watching :)
You make an interesting point regarding Prue’s death and Leo’s reaction to it. I can’t recall off hand but I’m sure there were some Prue Leo moments but during 1-3 I always thought the sister he connected with besides Piper was Phoebe. Him being Piper’s support during Prue’s death was probably the best way to go because it would have felt shoehorned in if he got really sad over Prue. Like even when Prue died in season 2 he just went i can’t heal the dead and got the genie.
Yeah now that you mention it, I can't remember many Prue/Leo moments. He definitely bonded more with Paige when she showed up
I like Leo . Mostly in season 3-7. I like his personality. He is sensitive, kind and thoughtful. I also think he has many comedic parts in the series. But I do also agree that he has d as some problems like that he holds on many secrets from Piper and the sisters for example.
Yeah Season 3 onwards fixed him for me
In my Headcanon Leo IS A SPY for the whitelighters in Season 1. Whitelighters beeing terrible in direct combat pushes them ironically towards deceptive strategies. With all the action turning the maskerade on and off on the whim of the plot, it is hard to remeber the reality of fighting evil as a whitelighter without witch(power) support.
Witches can choose their allignment and the Charmed Ones have been evil in the past. So finding out the Charmed Ones alligment and/or tipping the scales without having one of your agents getting blown up, is a realistic motivation.
Once a spy always a spy. Wasn't it implied that he was not allowed to tell in season two? From this lense season two is not a failure of Leo, but an arc in which he learns to trust the Charmed Ones over the Elders. Switching sides after 40 years as a whitelighter should be earned by the plot and not just be "whoops I love her".
I don't buy Leo as incompetent. The heat around Charmed Ones is way higher, so he has to adapt. Given the (retconned) importance of the Charmed Ones in the lore, I see the reasons for the Elders being so critcal of Leo stemming from his loyality rather than his competence.
IRL: An overly competent man shows up while the sisters are still learning. Not gonna happen in a fem power show. Leo has flaws to grow. Contrary to Cole learning the same lesson twice.
He tells Phoebe that whitelighters aren't supposed to reveal themselves to witches in season 1 after Phoebe catches him levitating.
Mark!! Mark was such a better match for Piper, they were so sweet together! They could have had a witch/ghost couple while also having John Cho as an amazing Asian male love interest.
Mark was my favorite love interest for Piper, ugh
YES!!! I am SO glad someone said this!! Imagine how awesome it would have been if Mark returned as Piper's Ghost Love-Interest? A conflict with Leo's moral decline could have been further illustrated in seeing Piper with a man who appreciates her and her children despite his own circumstances and the kids not being his own. And to make matters even more complicated (both for Piper herself as well as a plot conflict), the fact that Piper and Mark can't touch would have been an interesting thing to explore, considering Piper was afraid of Leo changing after being a father. Piper was afraid of losing intimacy and now is presented with man who wants it as much as she does but she can never truly touch. She experiences a closeness that calls to question her relationship with who Leo was and who he is now.
Also, YES to an Asian Romantic Lead!! We need more and John Cho was and is perfect! He and Piper had more chemistry in their first scene than she and Leo did, I felt. But....Brian Krause looked good in jeans, so-...
@@LeoP2008 the scene between Leo and Phoebe where she confesses to him that she hasn't vanquished Cole has some sexual tension. If I remember it correctly they are looking at each others lips which is often a sign that you want to kiss the other person and since I know about the affair between Brian and Alyssa I can't unsee it. The last time I watched this episode I had the feeling as Leo had to tell Piper something cause you should not have such chemistry with the sister of your wife. Piper and Leo had less of that plus Mark and Piper fitted so well together 🥺
@@larafranke1802 didn't Phoebe had a crush on Leo in S1? I felt like she still has feelings for him but in a smaller percentage.
I loved that episode
As a child/teenager I wanted Leo and Piper to be a happy couple so bad cause I thought they were meant for each other. When I started to rewatch the show some years later I disliked Pipers bossiness and Leo’s unfairness. Plus I am more the type to wait before you get married to soon, I rather spent years in a relationship before regretting to have married, so to me their marriage was rushed (I know it was their loophole to be together but still… Piper kind of agreed cause she wanted to be with him but I think if she wasn’t under pressure she would have waited a little bit more)
Thank you for this video and for pointing out Leo’s flaws in the first two seasons. I think the season 2 flaw was kind of a product of its time, with romanticising a guy who fights for you. Back then I didn’t understand why Piper chose Dan when Leo was available again (yeah, childish me 😅) but now I know that truly loving someone means that you want them to be happy, even if that means seeing them with someone else. Leo does the opposite….
Sorry for the novel and thank you for your content ❤
I agree with you!
The novel was very appreciated XD
Great video! I think I agree with everything you said in this video. I didn't know Leo was such a divisive character until a few years ago.
Yeah I assumed he was near universally loved, mostly because the fighting over which sister was best/worst probably drowned it out lol
I think this video helped me articulate my own feelings about him ie I like the Piper/Leo relationship and I might have mistaken that for actually liking Leo.
I still don't care much for the Saving Private Ryan episode.
And seriously the S2 Leo is truly obnoxious and they did Dan dirty. He was the perfect bf in every way.
Nice guys always finish last. Sad.
Yeah, Leo is pretty bad in Season 2 and Dan was a nice guy, but sadly I feel that Dan was kind of boring@@TCt83067695
The grossest thing was them implying that him and Penny had something intimate happen back during her hippie days. It was also gross that he tried to sleep with Paige which suggested that he was sleeping with the witches. Which begs the question of when did the Elders forbid witches & Whitelighters from being together. Grams said that they hid Paige because it was unfathomable for the two to be with each other, but Whitelighters & witches were sleeping together at her house. That rule must've been implemented soon after.
The Elders must have gone through a hippie phase themselves lol
Yeah all of that was weird, I get it was for comedy, but it was so out of character for him lol
@@Tbird0724 Leo been breaking the rules. He stayed in trouble with the elders fr lol i mean Thats why Phoebe knew he would heal cole for her.
When did he try to sleep with Paige?
@@katrinas9092 when she put on them red boots and went back in time and another time after that
Oooh! For once I'm early. :)
I kinda liked most of Leo's storylines. Except the huge age gap, like you mentioned, and the one with him and Grandma in the past Paige went to. Those were...Ehm, just no. 😵💫
And him taking away her feelings after he became an elder is weird.
(And wow, I truly forgot how stupid he was in the earlier seasons)
I think Charmed made Piper and Leo's relationship very human. Yeah, he wasn't the best at first with the lying and hiding, but humans do that, so their ups and downs felt very relatable with a magic twist
Fair point
During my last rewatch I was shocked by a few things about Leo. 1) His behaviour during seasons 1 and 2, as you mentioned. 2) He's been watching Charmed since they were kids. Disturbing, at least. 3) He watched Paige having sex at the beginning of season 4, saying that he had to keep an eye on her. Gross! 4) His behaviour during the 60s (season 6, episode 11 Witchstock). Also related to this: I find it quite odd that he knew Penny and then married her granddaughter?
I think the confusion is trying to understand us men and our minds. We don't view situations the same some things are creepy to women but not to men
@@meanguy111Well, situation "my husband watching my sister having sex" seems normal to you? 😀
@vladimirasalaskova4132 listen I'm not making an excuse but normal NO!.... but hook millions of men up to a lie detector test and ask certain questions and women would absolutely hate us. (Which is why we lie about what we really like)
I completely forgot about the whole watching Paige thing.
Yeah, I've said it before but after he told ppl he's been watching her since she was a baby I would've been like I'm out, this is to weird even for me lol
I'm biased because I started watching the show early in season 4, but I really like his character and the relationship with Piper. First off, he was a good guy romance in a genre that really romanticizes the bad boy. (Charmed in general was great at showing the pitfalls of the bad boy romance. I like that all three sisters ended up with very good boys. Yes, I know how I phrased it and I don't regret it.) And it showed the good guy romance with Leo from start to end, all throughout the show.
Also, he was always very supportive of the sisters. We had and still have a lot of female leads that are guided from above (by a man or woman), while Leo always guided from below. He wasn't all about issuing instructions, he was about being the safety net (and spouting necessary lore).
While I don't think fun characters are good role models, Leo to me was fun, good-humoured, AND a good model of how to be a supportive husband to a powerful female figure.
Regarding your issues, to me the first one is not an issue. Secrecy was likely the better approach than openness given that the sisters were already going through significant changes in their lives. I too would have recommended waiting for them to stabilize (after losing Grams and gaining their powers) before introducing a major character that they were asked to trust with their lives.
Season 2 issue is a bit clearer and I mostly agree with it. But also, I think present day analysis of romance ends up being very cut and dry and only examines things at face value. Piper choosing to not be with Leo was (in my interpretation) less because she didn't love him and more because she was tired of all the hoops. And to me, Leo choosing to fight for her was more like him saying, "I won't stop trying to find a solution to all those hoops." I never saw Piper as super enthusiastic about Dan. He seemed like a consolation prize that she was settling for.
Now, all the time thingies, like watching them since kids, yeah, that's gross. And also, just weird world-building. I'm just going to retcon that stuff out of my mind :)
All good points
i haven't even watched this yet and i already know i'm probably gonna love it lmfao
I haven’t watched the show in years but I always liked Leo.
Most of the audience do
Thanks!
Why thank you very much XD
Leo in season 2 is downright gross, he is so possessive of Piper and disrespectful to her relationship. If that aired now he would be branded toxic by the audience immediately.
💯 I was always put off by him in season 2 even back when it aired.
Their romance was forbid at the beginning, I meant i need to mention the fourth sister?
Leo's season 5 look, especially in that opening scene was was just 🥵🤤. He was a total dilf
I wish some men who aren't supportive (some def are, like mine) would have to be pregnant for a bit. I like that it didn't feel like a man hating episode, just trying to show difficulties. Well done video! I really enjoyed this. I didn't have time to watch all the episodes and I was young so I missed a lot from this show that I still really enjoyed. So it's nice seeing it this way. Thanks.♡
Better with Bob? Yes. 👍
The day I call off of work 😩now this whole day about to be slow because I’m waiting on this video to drop
Fantastic as I expected. I actually agreed with your take. Season 1&2 Leo is rough on rewatches. But by season 4 I was invested.
I saw him onstage at Supernova once and he talked about how much he regretted the loss of opportunity to really explore the Chris of it all in season 6. And that he really wanted to play a Dragon in the series (think Dragonheart) but there was no way the budget could stretch to anything like that. 😂
Leo I think suffered from poor planning. They really didn't seem to have a plan for the character in the early seasons beyond CONFLICT and MELODRAMA. But I do give the writers and cast credit for the course correction in season 3&4.
Can't wait to see the Chris video now. Glad you're feeling better!
Yeah Leo might not have started out great but, he definately grows into his own as a character. I also agree that the later seasons do take him in more interesteng directions. Pushing him to do extremes that I think in a way, show that good (not pure) people can be pushed to do morally wrong things, when pushed too far. And while he migh not have been my number one love interest, damn if I didn't cry at least a little bit, during the episode where the Angel of Death came for him.
My headcanon as to why he kept his identity secret is that the charmed ones were not yet at that level. Not all wiccans know about the grand design, orobably because it would freak them out.
But yeah, season 2 was a bit yieksy,...there is simply no way to make a good love triangle.
But once they were commited i think they were one of the best represantations of couples you could wish for: they had problems but worked on them, they compromised, they were vulnerable and caring while still remaining themselves individually.
Him becoming a stahd was for me the first depiction of that on tv, and it was honest that it may suck sometimes
Yeah one of my friends was talking on her podcast about how a lot of romance stories end with the couple getting together or else deal with a breakup or loss, and it's rare to see a story focus on two people actually building a life together
@@BetterWithBob the only other example i can think of is marshal and lilly, and they usually had episodal problems, not any inherent ones that really took work.
@@saraa.4295 Marshall and Lily have an arc of relationship issues that really comes to a head in the later seasons and forces Marshall to really question what and who he wants in his life, I enjoyed where they took them
@@isaiahcaston4539 i didn't hate it either, but most of their issues were kinda played for laughs.
Which makes sense, it was a comedy.
For me, piper and leps marriage with their changing dynamics and issues that came with that and the way they dealt with it felt more honest and aspirational than lilly and marshal..
And they came nearly 20 years earlier
@@isaiahcaston4539 like bf Leo being 150 and piper 39 will always b cringy
On behalf of Leos everywhere...there is *ALWAYS* a Leo problem.
Mind you, Leo Wyatt's problems stem from being mishandled so hapazardly he's either creepy, a wet blanket, or even dampens the feminist angle of Charmed but...yeah, problems.
How does it dampen the feminism?
Facts
@@skurinskipiper’s main motivation is s8 was to do anything and everything to get a man back… that’s dampening a strong woman
@@skurinski That was more of a personal take rather than from the analysis. I felt Leo sometimes distracted from how capable the Sisters were in handling problems on their own. Not when he was a mentor but more so when they made him more of offensive force. While I LOVED "Vulnerable Dad Leo," I wasn't a fan of the "Leo is a crazed vigilantly but then tries to get absolved by being an Holier-than-thou Avatar and...is forgiven ultimately, for some reason despite being a bigger threat than Cole" storyline.
MIND you, I may have felt Leo was the issue when really it was the handling of the Sisters in later seasons but just a personal opinion.
@@susanstorm7910 I disagree. A woman who knows what she wants & is willing to fight for it, no matter the cost, is a strong woman. It shouldn't matter if what she wants to fight for is a man.
From watching the show I feel like it would have been nice to see Leo's other charges more, especially the ones before the charmed ones. I feel as though he was a low key rule breaking badass whitelighter to begin with.
"If only Mark wasn't dead"
I like Leo, but I agree
13:53 Taking paternity leave!?
That is probably one of my biggest GRIPE about Leo (being a White-Lighter) you get no payment for your work so it was always a one-income household.
I really can't stand the idea that the Charmed Ones and Buffy Summers get no payment for basically having to save the world all the time, and are expected to juggle that with full time careers, especially when Buffy is 21 trying to support a teenage sister after they’ve lost their mother
I agree with your timeline of Leo. My perspective is that he started off questionable then got better over time. I will say I wish there were more interactions between him & future Chris & Wyatt (apparently there are books with a little of that, but I haven't read them), I feel like there's a *little* missed potential there.
Also, does the comment on Chris' hair mean we're getting a "The Chris Problem" video in the future?
They retconned whitelighters and elders so much on this show
I never had a problem with Leo or his storylines. I liked they kept the will they or won’t they aspect around as much as possible. Him being human, then becoming a white lighter, choosing to be with Piper and having a kid, breaking up cuz of being an Elder (torn between love and duty), then sacrificing his goodness and having to perform an act of darkness to save not only his children but the entire word, then finally learning to choose once and for all his family. There really was nothing to complain about from me. It went places and it required watching the complete series to see his arc manifest. It would have been terrible if it all lead to nowhere. Aka Cole. (TEAM COOP FTW).
Coop I like lol
Leo’s real problem is bad writing and budget cuts. Also, Leo was NEVER funny. Just as atrocious is his getting away Scott free with killing Zola. It’s so gdm sinister. Piper blows off his guilt about it, then plot to keep it hidden. Informs Paige and Phoebe later and they wisecrack! Zola wasn’t just an Elder but a friend to Leo and one of the few Elder’s that vouched for him and Piper to marry. And then he is attacked, warns the sisters because he still cares about Leo instead of alerting his fellow Elders. Then he is brutally murdered and begs for his life. And gets away with it. No accountability. It’s jokes with the sisters and the real great evil. Killing Gideon was deserved because he killed others, teamed up with a demon to murder a child, and fucked with reality by plotting with an alt universe doppelgänger. Deserved death! Killing Zola in a fit of instability just because Barbas egged on his paranoia isn’t enough. It’s that he committed a great evil and wasn’t held accountable. Goodnight.
Love your charmed videos. I totally agree! I actually did not like him AT ALL the first seasons. It wasn’t until season 4 where I was like ON BOARD. And I think they did his decent into “darkness” much stronger than Phoebe’s. And as kid, it was very refreshing to see the swap of gender roles. Charmed actually plays a huge part in that! Anyway, great vid as usual. You rock.
I liked him when he was just the repair guy flirting with Piper, it was innocent and seemed genuine, just a "lucky find" for Piper.
Then the revelation happens, he explains how his feelings are real, how it shouldn't have fallen for her but he did and... then they made it all feel so rushed and dramatic everytime they could. It was like "Jesus, give us and the couple a break" to me :P
The ghost was truly the best of the bunch.
Mark...before his time sadly
Leo’s Character growth is soooo Amazing if you ask me. I love the fact that we get that “fallen angel” storyline of him killing two fellow angels; Gedeon & Zola. Its so important! It gives people (the viewer) hope that even through their darkest of mistakes they can receive forgiveness and redeem themselves. We see his mental health decline and go to borderline insanity. Which is relate-able as i look back especially after watching the showing after the Pandemic.
When Chris comes back from the future knowing his Dad wasnt around for him at that time he even tells Piper “do you know a force of greater goodness then Leo?” ; And to see him stumble and make mistakes and still get back on track to his essence of Goodness is a big reason why I love Leo. And whenever im in a pickle i find myself in my house screaming LEEOOOOOOO 😂
I jumped into the show around season 3/4 so I missed the "finding their feet" stage of the show really.
I always liked Leo (but preferred Cole lol), I enjoyed his little moments with Phoebe who was my favourite of the sisters, and also his mentoring of Paige when she became a whitelighter in training. He was a good source of calm and reason as mentioned in the video but I did like his action moments too. Also thanks for reminding me of his "Sloth" role in the sins episode 😂 Brian was funny!
Charmed Episodes You Should Analyze:
1. "That '70s Episode" (1x17)
2. "Awakened" (2x12)
3. "Astral Monkey" (2x20)
4. "Pre-Witched" (3x17)
5. "Charmed Again, Parts 1 & 2" (4x01/4x02)
6. "Happily Ever After" (5x03)
7. "I Dream of Phoebe" (6x15)
8. "Ordinary Witches" (7x11)
Some dark horses in there for sure ☺️
I didn't mind Leo not coming clean at the very beginning because it made sense. They were still getting used to everything and their heads might have exploded if he just popped in on day one and was like "Hi, I'm you're guardian angel!" Prue didn't even want anything to do with any of it at first. Although the secrecy thing did drag on for longer than it needed to.
Leo was one of the characters who raised me, growing up. He along with Tuxedo Mask from Sailor Moon was like another dad I could see when my real dad was at work. He has always been one of my favorites from the show. I wish we had more of those badass scenes with leo figting and those funny scenes with Leo similar to the one where he was joking with Phoebe about her interest with the "new boss" like a brother [in-law] would. I loved him with the kids too like when him pretending to be a demon, guess we know where Chris gets the idea from.
Leo was a perfect man for Piper. He is good guy and I like him, he was very sweet, young, and helpful parner, fantastic.
While I was never a huge Leo fan, I always found his character interesting. They explored him in fun ways and he and Piper didn't suffer from that weird thing where a couple in a supernatural show has to be all angst and pain (looking at you Buffy/Angel). He also wasn't a stereotypical male. He liked being around his kids and I tujnk Leo probably would've balked at the idea that he was "babysitting" his kids. I still would've preferred John Cho as a love interest, but that's what fanfiction is for.
Uh ohh lol I know a lot of the fandom thinks Leo didn't really have a story arc or purpose until like end of s5 but I believe he served a purpose in the sisters lives before then instead of just being used as a door knob which I'm not gonna lie they did kinda do that but definitely not every episode. The only time I was really annoyed with Leo was the dreaded season 2 love triangle which I still roll my eyes at all these years later lol.
S1 he was just Pipers love interest and then we found out he is an angel. S2 he was able to give the sisters a lot of valuable information to vanquish demons when he wasn't fighting with neighbor Dan lol. S3 same thing but no Dan and it showcased his undying love for Piper and the sisters despite the whole probation thing. S4 he really helped Piper come to terms with Prue's death and continue her destiny with her sisters and sort of bridge the gap with newbie Paige. Beginning of S5 I feel he was building up to Elder status in all he did to protect his family and even helping Darryl that one time. From there his story arc truly flourished as well all know.
I am excited to watch this video Bob! It's been a looooooong time coming! 🍿 🍿
Leo's personality and Leo's function in the story were always so at odds. Functionally he is weird and creepy, but then his personality was always the 'dream boyfriend' type by being the supportive caregiver that hypes up Piper having it all. My largest problem with the Leo Piper relationship, despite me still loving the couple, is how emotionally abusive Piper gets in later seasons. Its an aspect of her character that only really shows up around Leo, more so after Prue's death when they give her a bit of a personality shift to be more aggressive and confident, and it created a pretty toxic dynamic for them in the Paige seasons
3:00
Because Drama. Because weekly television show. Obviously.
It has nothing to do with the plot and everything to do with the writers.
I love Leo and Piper but Piper can be a little bit abusive😂😂😂
I too watched the Paige series first so there was no tension in who piper would choose and who got the handyman at the start of season 1. I was so confused by Leo’s powers when I went back and watched the first series but never considered how odd it was that he hid he was a white lighter from them. I think Paige hid that fact from a few charges though especially those who were bound to be future white lighters but perhaps not as long as Leo hid from them
My favorite, Leo Moment will always be when he vanished a demon by making it overdose on rage
Gold lol
We should definitely revisit mother Prue
I just love Leo. I agree that he gets pushed to the back burner in the early seasons, but we really get to see his potential in season 4. The seven year itch is one of my favorite episodes. Whenever I hear someone say that Holly and Brian have chemistry, I always think about how they say they had none. I enjoy Leo in the later seasons though. I think he really cemented himself into the main cast along with the four leads. He, Dorian and Julian are the some of the few that worked with Shannen and rose.
I love your videos and grateful I found a channel that loves charmed just as much as me. THANK YOU FOR YOUR VIDEOS AND HARD WORK ❤❤❤❤❤❤
Thank YOU for watching :)
Great video Bob. The love triangle was very much the anvil for series 2. it brought out the worst in both Piper and Leo. They just seemed so passive aggressive toward each other, like stop snarking at each other and talk it out. I think the red flags and inconsistencies in his character stuck out more because he was presented as an angel. The episode in season 7 where he becomes mortal and the episodes that follow are lowkey his best I think because he plays it really vulnerable and it mirrors season four when Cole became mortal and was still wanting to protect and feel useful. It was also refreshing to have a male character in a supporting role and being the a healer and caregiver (There's a scene from season 2, it might be apocalypse not, where the sisters are in the attic strategizing and he's in the background making tea and its kind of heartwarming). One of his best episodes is Paige from the past, his support of Paige in that episode is very sweet and also when the roles are reversed in saving private Leo.
I especially love how he's the one who pulls some strings to get Paige to see her parents at the end. He's the one who saw how heartbroken she was, and wanted to make amends
Leo was amazing. I loved him so much.💞💞
Would love it if you did a video on Chris, a character that doesn’t get much love but I love him!!!
That's be a hard topic to tackle alright
@@BetterWithBob 🥹I’m sure if you gave it a try it would turn out great!
I just found the constant relationship troubles with Leo and Piper tedious. The forbidden love angle was good but after they were allowed to be together it was just a lot of BS relationship drama. Being pulled apart and coming back together. The love triangle. Marriage counselling that felt a bit shoehorned in. Leo becoming an elder which meant they couldn't be together any more for some reason even though he constantly came back to help the girls and see his son. Having his memory erased to see if he'd choose helping people or his family (ok I kind of liked that one). Then being frozen by the angel of destiny at the end and disappearing for half the season (which I know was for budgetary reasons but still a little annoying).
The problem with Leo is that he's underappreciated
PLEASE TALK ABOUT THE EPISODE "CAT HOUSE". When Phoebe and Paige travelled in time as Leo and Piper are in therapy. Don't you feel weird that Paige "met" Prue as a dog? I mean, should've Prue remembered that she saw Paige and Phoebe when she was a dog? Becasue she remembered about the guy that rescued her when was hit by a car (I remember she said he was handsome)
Can you please do a Chris video? I know most people hate it but 6 is my favorite season, I would love your input on the character.
To be honest, I don't think Leo was ever the problem. Real problem was the Elders. I recently rewatched all the 8 seasons, and the elders are kinda horrible bunch. They are a council made of older white lighters and they look after witches. So when Chris gets mad at Leo, for abandoning him, it's in away something that Chris caused himself (making Leo to become an elder when he came back in time), but if we think about the way the elders mess up the lives of the Charmed, it's intense. First of all Leo and Piper can not be together, because it would distract both of them from their duties (or that is the way I interpretated it). Sam and Patty had to give up their child, because they could not be openly together, which totally messed up Sam's life, and affected Paige's. In this alternative reality where Chris came from, he and Wyatt lost their father, because of the elders (which in some weird time loop way, was result of Chris's actions). To me, elders are really the villain of the Charmed series.
I always thought Piper and Leo were good together, and I also find their relationship very realistic, despite of all the magic stuff. They have good times, and they have some bad times, and they manage to solve them and have a good communication, that is the way relationships work. I also liked that Leo was shown as someone who loved his boys and had a very nurturing side of him, but that never made him less masculine or emancipited, and as someone who grew up without a father, that was important to me (when watching Charmed as a kid), and sometimes I think about it, Leo died in the first world war, he was engaged with Lilian, he had his whole future planned, getting married, having kids, becoming a doctor, but when he died he got this offer and there was two options, to die or continue working as another type of healer, something that was his calling already when he was alive. When he met Piper and wanted to be with her, that was really his second opportunity, to live that life, he was robbed earlier, so when I see him with his sons and Piper, I think, here is a guy, who does want to be with his family, because he didn't get that chance the first time. (A dead) White Lighter is bit like an angelic ghost, they help their charges, they see people living their lives and here is a guy who 60 years ago, was robbed a chance to have a wife and a family. The struggle that he has with his human side and the whitle lighter side, is nothing to laugh at. When season 6 came, it felt strange that Leo's character would suddenly just leave his sons, so when I rewatched it, it didn't feel like Leo's choise, no, once again, it was the elders.
I have heard some fans complaining that he left his family in the alternative future, I disagree. We know already how the elders, try all their powers to keep the white lighters mingingling with their charges, so if a white ligther is a father to a child, why would the elders let him be part of their lives, they had already separated Leo from Piper and Paige from her parents. I don't think it was ever a question Leo not wanting to be with his kids, but the elders literally forced him not seeing them. I wish the show would have made Chris acknowledge, that "yeah man, you made your father leave you, when you made him to be an elder)". There is a moment in the genie episode, where Phoebe calls him out on that, but that was the only time. That being said, Leo''s behavior in season seven totally made sense. He literally saw his son dying and a long time friend betrayed him, that would make any person to go berserk for a while. I really liked that Gideon was the villain, because had it been a demon it would have been to obvious (and maybe kinda boring).
It feels so weird to me, because the elders need the Charmed ones and at the same time, it feels like they are constantly torturing them. If you ever make a video about the elders that would be interesting to watch. I love Leo, despite of the creepiness of the first two season, I wish they would have expanded his back story a bit more (his first family) I loved the episode "saving private Leo" too. I think Brian Krause even said that it was his favorite episode. It was nice to see this video, I thought about Leo a lot, after my last rewatch.
Talking about that dream episode where Leo was pregnant, because he wanted to feel connected with the baby. There was another similar episode, I think it was in season 4, where he was pregnant again and literally experienced Piper's pregnancy symptomps. I think that goes back in to that longing that I mentioned earlier, first life on earth robbed, no chance for wife, family career. Second round, no ability to form real relationships with humans, and longing to get what was taken on the first time. Third round, becoming a human, getting a family, but it does also include challenges and difficulties, because those are part of life, also playing scrabble with Piper in the end of the series, which makes it all worth it.
Thank you for coming to my Leo-talk.
The messiness of all that was part of the charm of the show, pun intended. It's how real life is even though it's a fantasy based show.
You know it occurred to me, Leo is a character who went on a rollercoaster of directions due to the writers unable to establish himself as an independent person.
If you think about it, Mark the ghost was a better match for Piper and I would've loved and adored the fact if the showrunners held their nerve longer and have him stick around longer.
I think we all would have loved it lol
Season 8’s main motivation is Piper getting Leo back was horrible
I'm glad you covered how messed up it was that Leo slept with Piper before telling her he was her Whitelighter. That always bothered me, but I don't think I've ever seen anyone else bring it up
For me, it was the fact that despite being a healer who could fight a little bit, he was always getting his ass beat. He came off as so weak, and just to make the girls look better and I hated the character over time for that. I wanted all of them to be able to fight. And of course, by the time he IS able to take care of himself, he goes on his borderline evil arc 🙄
Thank you for another great video! Amazing and insightful as always. Can I make a request? I would love you to review charmed again, the season 4 opening 2 episodes. I think they are great episodes that explore grief and always one of the most successful reboots a tv show has ever managed to do! I can’t think of many tv shows that have survived killing off their lead and carrying on for another 5 seasons! Keep up the good work Bob! May the power of 3 set you free 🧙🏻♂️ 😂
Politely (but firmly) requesting an entire video dragging the guys' hairstyles please 😁
😂😂😂
yes yes yes im glad u mentioned it because he later goes on to tell them whitelighters heal their charges when hurt by evil and he orbs them everywhere in later seasons but in season 2 and 3 he said hes not allowed to, and do other whitelighters tell their charges theyre whitelighters its so frustrating. we also know he was a newbie highlighter in season 6 in witchstock in the 60s
It seems witches usually know they're whitelighters but mortals who are destined to become whitelighters when they die don't
I Love Charmed ever since Last year when I was 15,This Show came out in my Mom's Days.
idk why People hate Leo cuz He never try to end Piper or her Sisters unlike Cleo.
Yes,it is Creepy that Leo been Watching Piper ever since She was born but he didn't know what She was like as an Teen.
Leo seem like an Amazing Character and I have an Crush on him.
Cleo was an Creep because he had an Obsession with Phoebe,Everytime Phoebe tell Him that She doesn't want to be with Cleo anymore cuz how he is...
He still keeps going after her and in that one episode in Season 5,He have 2 Demons disguise as Phoebe which is Creepy.
You mean Cole
It's also sad that Mark did not come back from the Death and I just feel like that they have done certain characters wrong when it was about Charmed storyline & sometimes because I feel like what I heard was going on behind the scenes there was a lot of conflict so this is why it felt so weird since I was watching the series of each episode since Charmed started to get new seasons and the series was at the time getting very weird 8:40
And they also did certain characters wrong I believe they never should have disappeared and I also remember Kiara the new Seer she should have been besties with Phoebe and help me with her premonition I cannot believe she was killed off that was I'm so sad justice for Kira
Well specifically the reason why they dont sometimes just come out and say it is cuz they are guiders they are supposed to lead you down a road without being too forward about it so they make their own choices, unlike evil which will outright directly influence you, thats repeated with page when she has to start being one herself, the specific problem is our specific experience is extremely limited in examples
I know you don’t like awakened as an episode, but can you please eventually cover it in a video since it is a fan favorite? as someone who has been in the hospital nine times I love going back and watching this episode. I know that might sound weird, but it just puts a smile on my face every time I see it.
18:47 rip James avary
I am not sure where I heard this but Holly and Brian who played Piper and Leo respectively was actually good friends before they did Charmed together, so when the show wanted to make them a couple, they were apprehensive about doing it, cause they see other like brother and sister.
Personally I think that there was a whitelighter problem as at the beginning of the series they said that whitelighters were guides for witches though mostly they just watched from the background then when Leo was made into a series regular they gave whitelighters more of an active role with their charges which felt tacked on for the whole series run. If another better reboot of the series is made then they should set ground rules for witches, demons, whitelighters, and darklighters which should be gospel for the run of a new reboot of the series
Yeah like in P3 H20 it's said that the Elders won't approve of Leo orbing with Piper, which looks baffling in light of how later seasons would go
Another awesome analysis!
Thank you very much!
A video about chris being in the gray would be fun! You touch a lot on the binary of good vs evil that this show has, and chris is the exception, he is morally gray, and not afraid to do what is wrong for what he believes is right (like the grater good) in oposite of season 6 main final villan who has the same view but his grater good is to kill wayatt and chris greater good is to save him! And him being a miror for Prue is very interesting… love your videos ❤
Thank you :)
Your videos are always so good and informative.....
I love when you make videos about charmed and would love to hear your thoughts about other witchy shows like the secret circle , witches of east end and the vampire diaries and all its spin offs 🙂
Haha I haven't watched any of those so might take a while lol
@@BetterWithBob oh well you should definitely check those shows out there all pretty good 🙂
I recently watched the show, and to be honest Leo was my least favorite character. Its not like I hated him, but I just couldnt care for him. I think the main problem is that althought I did like his role as a guide and mentor for the sisters, (and this might a really unpopular opinion) I really didnt feel the chemistry between Piper and Leo. Like alot of people said, I did feel better chemistry between Piper and Marc in one episode than in the entire show with Leo, and I really think Marc would have been a better romantic option (like him dying and becoming the sisters' white lighter and so taking Leo's role). Oh well...
oh Mark as a whitelighter would be a good idea. his death seemed so cruel and meaningless for what a nice guy he was
Hahaha is it me or is Bob getting snarkier? I'm here for it.
7:40 trust him to make me start to give credit to the Elders for once 😅
6:45 i love a good shade but who are those 2 again pls?
Oh I was born that way 😂
I don't know personally I have never had a problem with Leo and him and Piper having to fight for their happiness until the last episode certainly made my interest in the show larger. But then again despite being a huge fan of the show I started watching it on TV from season 4 and then I watched the previous seasons on reruns. So Leo was established in my mind as Piper's husband. On another note can we all just get together and report that hag who makes videos trashing "charmed", "Buffy" and other shows so her channel gets taken down? I know it's petty of me but I get really mad whenever I stumble upon them. I guess I am a descendant of the greek gods that the elders created. "Petty, evil, vindictive" as Chris described them😅 ps of course I know you are a true fan so even if you have criticisms I know you love the shows but she(you know who she is) has built her entire channel sh!ting on series we like. It's infuriating
Bob just to tell you before I thought it was romantic because Leo was her guardian angel so I thought their relationship was so cute I thought that Piper and Leo relationship was kind of like Romeo and Juliet but now there's something that I noticed why didn't Leo stayed away from the Halliwell's he was there white lighter for so long for many years so they should have chosen a different white lighter for example they should have chosen a female white lighter that could Mentor them and mother them this is how I imagine Leo should have stayed an elder 26:47
And by the way I understand why the elders they wanted to keep Leo away from Piper it's because their relationship was very sinful and by the way Leo was already married in 1920s so it could mean that he is older than Piper very older than Piper Leo he watched over Piper since she was a baby it creeps me out and he is a creep Leo or Leo he should have been a father figure to The Charmed ones and they should have had a female white lighter mother figure like that the Halliwell sisters will not be lost
Did you know that Leo he used to be in a relationship with penny mother in the past I remember watching part in my past when Phoebe when P Russell was trying to reach Phoebe and Phoebe she reconnected with her in the past life and Anton the Warlock he shapeshift into Leo so Leo was also the Warren's cousins white lighter since the beginning so he's been the white lighter forever since generations and it is gross and also in the 60s when penny was a hippie he also slept with other witches 😱🤢🤮 before I used to be a fan of their relationship now I am not a fan off their relation anymore because now it's dead and it what's two toxic their relationship Piper and Leo Piper she deserves more better than that she should have been with Dan in my opinion he was her soulmate all this time 26:47
If you’re doing a Wyatt video does that mean that you’re also going to do one on Chris because I’d definitely be interested in watching both.
One problem with Leo was that his USP (orbing, whitelighter) got shared with more and more characters - Paige, young Wyatt, Chris. It’s a bit like ‘crowded Batcave’ syndrome.
I like that term aha
I cant do anything but agree with every charmed video you make
1) Yes, Leo 1/2 season was terrible
2) Yes, he improved a lot in season 3/4
3) Yes his story in S6 finale and S7 was interesting
4) Yes, taking him out for S8 with a good plot twist and motivation was the best way to do that.
Every time I rewatch Vaya con Leos I love the episode, and every time I rewatch kill billie 2, I like to see him back in the opening credits.
Leo was not my favorite character, but he was a big part of the universe they made, way more than just a love interest (as happened with Cole, but getting better treatment)
Just you wait, Chris! This whole thing is so funny and true. I never liked how they handled the Leo/Dan thing either and now I know why. And I really hated Chris, so can't wait for that video.
His use of curtains will be taken down!
wow I got to know him the same way as you because I am a TV kid and I also was irritated when watching the whole show from the beginning ^^" So in the first seasons I gotta say I like cole much more than him even - though he was my favorite otherwise ... hmmm ... okay, saving private Whyatt was one of my earlier episodes. Charmed is pure chaos, but if it gets good it get prettty good.
We gonna eat with the Chris video! It astounds me that he's a fan favorite character! Look at all the stuff that he does that's really shady, but the sisters give him a pass for no reason given! But they're more than happy to rip into Cole for doing shady things! Double standards much?!
Yes preach
Didn't a lot of the decisions they make regarding Leo in s6 also have to do with contract negotiations? From what I've read Chris was introduced because Brain wasn't sure he wanted to continue, and contract negotiations were on going.
I checked with someone who knows a bit more and he says that story is likely false, and that Brian was happy to have a job. There is another rumour that he actually asked for a raise and they wrote him becoming an Elder as a way to demote him to recurring but that's up in the air too since he's still a regular in S6
Piper and Leo from my perspective is a constant. In one line with Phoebe and Cole (sorry uncle Coop), Ross and Rachel, Clark and Lois, Turk and Carla, Bonnie and Clyde etc.
Despite mentioned "creepy" moments I still do believe they are a couple destined to be from the begining. I know I may be baised, but in this case I'm willing to forgive myself about it.
What about Leo's intervention in Piper and Dan's "happy relationship", well I believe there was a simplier times back then. Fighting for the one you love always was one of the most popular subjects around the world. And what a fight can be without a rival? Rivals has to be in equal conditions or it will be too simple and predictable if one of them is a villain or just some nasty jеrk.
It actually added to the story that they didn't know who he was and its pretty obvious so I'm unsure as to how you can't understand that. If had told them right at the start, it would have been boring and formulaic. Hiding him in plain sight made it fun and formulaic. The journey is as good as the destination.
Edit: your views are a typical man's view. Wanting to get to the sex and skip the foreplay.
Hiding his identity would be fine if there were good in story reasons for it but the show sidesteps it. My issue is also with the fact that he outright sleeps with Piper without being honest with her
Yes he was constantly telling the girls how to do their jobs like bro they been saving the world more times than anyone.
Why didn't we get the hot men in silly sexy costumes? WHY?! Between Leo, Cole, Future Chris, and the endgame love interests we had so much potential
I do remember my friend who used to produce a late night talk show in the 90s and 2000s with dancing girls and women in hottubs saying that she wanted to make sure the show appealed to female viewers as well, so they brought male dancers in and the female viewers they tested with actually didn't like them because they were so overt - and they preferred more regular guys who'd just occasionally get into the hot tub or whatever. So that might have been the mentality back then - the hot male love interests being more about allowing the viewer to fantasise about being with them
@@BetterWithBob that makes sense