Kate Stewart & "political correctness" | AUTHORS BEHAVING BADLY
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As a Mexican i wanna thank you for using "Latine" instead of "Latinx"
It goes a long way 😅
Yeah. "Latinx," frankly, sounds like either an over-the-counter expectorant or a pron parody.
Yeah, I'm not Hispanic but I wince a bit when people use Latinx. I understand they're trying to be inclusive and may not be informed but it's so clumsy to say even in English.
@@ettaetta439 Exactly! Suena horrible 😰
I'm not Latino, but I am a black person raised in a mixed neighborhood, and it feels like Irene and her family gave Kate a personal pass for saying racist sh*t because they knew her and recognized it as a joke, and Kate took that as the entire racial-ethnicity giving her a pass.
It's something I've seen happen many a times and it's good that it got shot down. Some people just don't get the difference between things you can say to some people but not to all.
This is a great point
Yeah I've met white people that happened to, they had a few black friends who basically said they were cool so they could use the n word (not with the hard r, not that that matters). It's something that had to be unlearned growing up, not only that saying slurs are not okay, especially as a group that has a history of oppressing that race, but also that no racial group or minority community is a monolith, one or two people cannot speak for an entire community.
I agree with hart fiend. There are jokes you share with friends and family that you don’t share with the general public because not everybody sees the joke the way you do. It would be like sharing personal information with a coworker there’s just some things you don’t do.
My kids live in a world of looking Caucasian, but are also Mexican. I am mixed myself, & grew up in a mixed neighborhood. Obviously with friends you have jokes, but you can't assume others are okay with it.
I have to remind my kids, & even myself of this every day!
I do "F" up, it's not apologizing for the Author because don't know her or the book.
Question: is the character who uses this word Latine? and I guess added question: Does it matter?
On one level, I completely see why it might not matter. On the other hand, if the character is supposed to be reflective of the Latine ppl in her life, and those ppl use that word...It at the least lends context to why it's there. Not sure if it makes it "okay"...but I feel like it makes it...slightly less ignorant. Especially if we are to believe her when she says she consulted with the Latine ppl in her life about it. It adds a slight layer of plausible deniability for me almost.
But her overall reaction was so horrible, in the end, it still makes it bad all around.
"I read what I want and Im never personally offended by jokes" girl you're a trumb supporter you're probably offended by people saying holiday instead of Christmas
I love being "politically correct" I love not using slurs. The alt right is so...urgh
Listen I’m a trump supporter and I’m not offended by that stuff. People have different religions. I say merry Christmas to my family but in public places I say happy holidays. Even though we may not agree on politics, but politics aside, I respect anyone who respects me. I do not let my political opinions represent who I am as a person.
Or by someone calling her a cis woman.
“Don’t you know fiction isn’t real? You think Keanu Reeves is a hit man? 🤨” is one of the most infuriating arguments and it just makes said arguer look incredibly stupid lol. Nothing but a strawman trying to shut down criticisms of media, as if fiction being fiction means its above criticism or isn’t capable of doing real harm.
And I think that the problem is that there’s a lack of understanding there on the legacy of using art and media to perpetuate stereotypes about certain marginalized groups and why and how that causes measurable harm to those groups. And that was a discussion worth having and yet we can’t even get to that discussion because we’re stuck having to explain that racism is not always an angry white person yelling a slur in public but instead takes more covert forms that we all need to check ourselves for
honestly if that entire argument from renee shearer did anything it was convincing me that i should never read a renee shearer book
I have been told that there is a divisive actor who’s “managed to convince the world that he had scissors for fingers.”
Where was she when Christian groups were giving themselves aneurysm, trying to ban Harry Potter because of fictional witchcraft?
It is seriously infuriating and terrifying. Words do harm. If you’re an author (like that woman claims to be) and do not understand that words do harm, regardless of intention and not regarding fictionality, you should educate yourself.
"It was written like 5 years ago!" as if 5 years ago was the 1950's and not 2017 lmao. As if she wasn't still a grown ass adult when she wrote these words.
it's such a weird thing to use as an argument because like, we hold people on a personal level accountable for things they do to us but when a person does something publicly a few years ago it's different? idk thats weird mental gymnastics to me
@@Voyvoda1903 I know this comment was from 2 weeks ago, but you do realize that friends can be biased...right?
@@Voyvoda1903 are you actually this dumb my guy
@@Voyvoda1903 lol plenty of PoC have racist friends. Having a person of color in your life doesn’t absolve you of racism.
@@zi2651 Lmao 😂
'People are getting hurt for thinking different.'
Sucks, doesn't it? That's how marginalised peope are treated all the time.
You're right. This example being just the most recent one. I guess if they 'think different' then even being marginalised won't help them.
ua-cam.com/video/9s3UBuQjm1c/v-deo.html
How much you want to bet the "I'm gonna read what I wanna read" woman is pro banning LGBTQIA+ books in libraries? She is definitely giving that energy.
would not surprise me AT ALL
As soon on as she said that I’m like … but do you read diversely ? Hmmm probably not.
@@cynthiagates9627 yeah I agree with you. I don't think diverse reading is a priority for her.
Rachel said she calls Trump her “daddy”, so… yeah, 100000% she’s for banning LGBTQ+ books in libraries
She is definitely pro banning books or censoring all books kids are allowed to read 😒
"We are TIRED of all this political correctness ruining literature 😞"
The political incorrectness: Black men as thugs, Helmet-wearing specials, pretending to be Latina to get laid, joking about calling immigration.
O.O
Also, the one TikTok about the lady ranting and invoking Keanu Reeves, makes me wonder how good of an author she is, if this is how she feels. You can write, and you can write about uncomfortable things, but it's incredibly naive to say the least to think that there's not a right way or a wrong way to do that.
Doesn't the part where she wrote about faking to be a Latina seem especially weird considering one of the points her friend brought up is that the first person she slept with was latine? Like I'm reaching probably but has she done this in real life before? 💀
One of the reasons I still enjoy re-reading Ursula K LeGuin is because several of her books consciously and deliberately feature protagonists who are not white, but are educated, well-spoken, and charismatic. Apparently her father worked with Native Americans to preserve their languages and cultures.
One of my most fan-girl moments was meeting Ursula K LeGuin, and made moving to Oregon worth it to have been in the right place in the right time 😆. her characters and stories are so refreshing - all these years later ❤️
"I don't get offended by things," she says whilst being VERY offended by a thing. 😂
Happens all the time. "I literally don't care!" they say in the middle of a vehement rant about the thing they allegedly don't care about
I'm white and austitic.
I don't get white people when they say, "I don't mind when people make fun of mine culture/skin color"
I'm like, "No sh*t, I don't mind that either."
Because ofcours. It's not the same thing. We don't have a historie where we're not aloud to be ourselves, where were banned because of our race, skin colour or culture.
For example, for me this change, when people make jokes about autisme. Because most of the times I see stereotypes, most of the times I am the punch line of a joke. And that's not fun, that is exhausting.
And yes I think it's good that we talk about this. Because otherwise we never learn.
I hope I explaned it wel. I'm dutch and mine Englisch is not that great.
Fantastic job with the English! I thought you might speak a Germanic language due to the spelling of certain words. I completely agree with you, I commented something similar myself.
@@CarolineReadsbooks thank you😁. I tried to find you're comment, but I couldn't find it.
Your English is really good!
@@peachtea7269 thank you☺
Honestly? Your spellings of certain words is like a breath of fresh air to me
They just really want permission to write harmful shit without being held accountable--the victim mentality is gross.
The fact that its not plot-relevant really throws me. Like wait THEN WHY DID SHE WRITE IT AT ALL?! AHHHHH
@@ReadswithRachel Right?? Like wouldn't it take MORE effort to write it in instead of just not?
It's exactly how some white people react when they're accused of being racist or called Karens in other situations. It's the refusal to have a necessary conversation and the victimizing yourself.
I'm not even on tiktok and when that girl said "I like booktok because there's no drama" I snorted, loudly, in the library
Ah yes nothing better than an apology that is based on "but I didn't do it on purpose" 🥺
This
It's "hell is paved with good intentions" for marginalised people and "they didnt mean it, so any anger or hurt feelings arent legitimate" for the people at the top.
There is a big difference between a character saying or doing something that is questionable and then having immediate accountability from someone (another character, the narrator, etc.) to balance it out (and actually make it clear that the author does NOT believe in or agree with the words or actions) and the same things being said or done and totally ignored. With no rebuttal or comment calling out the problematic words or actions, it gives the reader the feeling that the author tacitly agrees with the words or actions. Yes, it is a tightrope, but a careful and thoughtful author can navigate it.
I agree and when reading the excerpts that’s actually what I was looking for and instead I kept finding that phrase “politically incorrect “and that’s when I was like OK it’s time to do a video discussing this because every time Kate has the opportunity to have a conversation about whether or not it’s appropriate for a character to say a certain thing she shields herself by using that phrase
I disagree about the total rebuttal. People would say terribly racist shit irl and nobody would bat an eye. Bc some of them agree. Bc they are uncomfortable. Bc they are worried if they won't have negative social consequences. Bc they are triggered. Bc they don't care. Etc. I expect the story to acknowledge that the behaviour is shitty or not to pretend it is normal, sure. I don't understand why the writer felt the need to write that as a wp though. Especially considering the fact that she is not part of the group. Somebody saying the word doesn't give you the right to also do it if you are not part of the group. Eminem kept the n word out of his mouth, I don't think it's a tough act to follow, really.
@@eneyavorodecky no he hasn't. Lmao and sure I agree with most of this but I think it isn't always gonna be perfect even if you are a part of that group.
I have been called names because of my views on race and yes I'm white, culturally I'm Italian and Hispanic. My up being was filled with people of all different color, culters and just all around very diverse.
I have been told I'm not really Hispanic because I didn't grow up with XYZ. I guess my mom throwing a shoe at me wasn't enough for me to be included in the Hispanic group.
My point is we are individuals fist, what makes us individuals is a combination of social, cultural and economic influences that shape how we see the world.
Thuse no one is the same. Even as a Hispanic I could offend so many people just talking about how I was raised and my family dynamics.
For instance I'm sure the shoe comment made someone's heckles go up but anyone I have interacted with who is a "real" Latino would have laughed and said "good one Gringo"
Because we can all relate to it. Idk people are gonna be offended no matter what even if you are from that group of people is my point.
And honestly I find most people in these groups don't care it's usually white people who care more then we do honestly and speak for us.
Maybe this is just me and I do think what she did was in very poor taste at best but as a writer, I just write a character then slap on an ethnicity or race afterwards because my world isn't one color or culture so my fictional world shouldn't be either.
But again that's just me.
@@herewegoagain4033 not being perfect is not a reason or an excuse.
I still can't get over the friend thinking the points that who Kate has slept with/dated were relevant?? Baffling & embarrassing tbh 😳
6:45 its not the reader's responsibility (nor their job) to personally email an author about possible problematic things in their published work
(I know you know this lol It just makes me mad lol)
Irene clearly doesnt know reviewers dont work for authors
Some people appear to think that if you can be attracted by someone from the group you generally marginalize with stereotypes, denigrating words, or make assumptions about equals Not Racist/Prejudiced. It's mental gymnastics people make for themselves or their friends or family or associates.
It was revealing as to why Kate thought her rac1sm was ok. Her friends might be Latinx but their understanding of systemic racism is below basic. It's giving "I cant be rac1st, I have Black friends" energy.
It’s the one TikToker saying that she never saw drama on BookTok before this that got me. She’s clearly on the wrong side of BookTok. People need to start paying attention when their told (and shown the receipts that back it up) that a book is very harmful. Kate Stewart was going to get added to my TBR until I started seeing more and more BAD things in her books.
What she said: there’s never been tiktok drama!
What I heard: Most media is created for white cis gendered straight people like myself so I don’t relate to people having to see themselves poorly depicted through stereotypes in media
@@ReadswithRachel also her whole thing about “I’ll probably laugh when I get called a cracker”. Like, that’s not a slur and you are not a minority group with a history of oppression and marginalization. That is not an equal comparison! It’s so obvious that she’s extremely ignorant.
ooooh that woman saying that she's "terrified as an author" or whatever because she's worried she'll get called out for saying something racist is the same exact vibe as men saying "well now i'm afraid to flirt with women" because of the Me Too movement. like you shouldn't be worried if u haven't done anything wrong??
13:31 If you are "afraid" that what you may write will be taken as racist maybe is because what you write is racist.
this!
It’s always interesting to see people say “it was written 5 years ago!” When discussing problematic elements of books (or any media). Yes it was written that many years ago and maybe the author has grown but that does not eliminate the problems that are STILL in the book. It is important to be critical of gross stereotypes, racist language and actions no matter how long ago and especially if the book is still in circulation.
Outlander is an example that I’ll use; the main villain is sadistic abuser who is also the only gay man. And his motive for being evil is his lust for another man. That’s a gross stereotype. Now I can acknowledge the book was published in the very early 90’s (91 I believe) and so it is a product of its time, but I will also still point out that it i problematic and not okay. Did I enjoy the book? Yes. But that aspect isn’t mad alright just because it was written a certain amount of time ago.
Clearly this is not a one time issue for Kate and thus cancels out the “maybe she’s grown” argument because she is now showing a pattern.
(Also Renee’s condescending attitude is disgusting….who is raving about Kate’s books…give me a name please.
😂)
Yeah the age of a book does not negate any conversations around things that are problematic or raise eyebrows. A big portion of English academia that writes theory on literature is about asking questions about old books, be those questions inherently positive, negative, or neutral.
@@BooksRebound Black Jack Randall in book one (it’s the only one I’ve finished so he might be in others). He SA’s Jaimie and tries to bribe/blackmail him into having sex throughout the book.
Lol. So she lost her virginity to some guy with a certain last name? It's possible to have a last name and be only a very small percentage of the ethnicity that surname comes from.
True!
Or to be adopted into a family like that, my moms last name is gallardo and im white
If I was a public figure and did something ignorant and one of my only defenders happened to be someone on Tik Tok who smokes in their house wearing day old eyeliner I would just politely disappear from the public discourse.
“That’s one of the reasons I love booktok is no drama”
MAAM ARE WE ON THE SAME BOOKTOK? 🧐🧐🧐
The way this author turned the comments off and they're both defending "jokes" and that "it's for entertainment, therefore, it's ok if it uses a racist slur" is mind blowing to me. No one is trying to "tear down" these authors. They're asking for you to do better. Asking an author not to use a slur is not the same as avoiding a book that discusses a difficult topic, such as S.A., in a respectful manner 💀 I just....what is so hard to understand here?
I've dabbled in writing and problematic characters are fun to write (and read about) if. they. grow. If they stay problematic (or the problem is never called out at minimum) one trends to believe that's the world view of the writer.
The most disheartening part is when people from the impacted community don’t see the issue with a book that has harmful rep. Irene and others who know Kate Stewart aside, I saw a comment from a reader on Twitter who was happy to see any Latine rep. But I can literally name so many Latine authors writing from their own experiences, even with the massive representation issues in publishing, which none of these people defending Kate can acknowledge. There’s even a little community of Latine romance writers, including Priscilla Oliveras, Alexis Daria, and Sabrina Sol, among others. Sabrina also was among those who spoke out, and had a book come out recently, Big Chicas Don’t Cry, under the name Annette Chavez Macias, which I’m excited to read when I’m able to.
This! Like again i wanna reiterate my point i made toward the end of the video, we never see the kind of support both institutionally and from readers that white authors writing latine stories get...for actual Latine writers. That alone should make everyone pause.
@@ReadswithRachel Gabriel Garcia Marquez was eagerly read in my very white 90s high school.
'A' Latino beta reader. SINGLE! ONE! I.e her friend read it and, in the echo chamber of the romance novel scene, cleared it.
Also characters are reflections of ourselves and our views. The subconscious bleeds into our world views whether we know it or not. You can't hide behind 'oh its fiction and these characters don't reflect me or my views.' YOU still wrote them! You still put unconscious racist views into the work.
This and it's exactly why I am begging authors to stop having their friends read their books and instead pay for sensitivity readers
Why is it always "but i can write racist scenes without agreeing with them, its a character who says it nor me" and never "why am i as a white author taking space talking about experiences and stories that arent mine when theres THOUSANDS of latine authors who arent afforded the same opportunity"
THIS!!!!!!!!
I think about that every day, as a white writer - you're right, it's a problem that writers from marginalised backgrounds are given less of a voice. Unfortunately there isn't a whole lot I can do about it, except continue to call attention to it and recommend books written by those people. Most writers are not really in a position to give marginalised writers more power. We're not really in positions of power ourselves , except the Kings and Rowlings of the world who are really rare. You'd need to take that to the publishers - the people who actually decide which writers get published.
And you'd need to BUY books written by those people. Publishers aren't accepting those books because they think they won't sell (which is, to an extent, informed by their biases. But it's also informed by customer purchase decisions). If you want to solve the problem, you gotta prove them wrong. Buy the books, and they will put out more books like it. The one benefit of a capitalist society is how easily you as a consumer can turn it in your favour, yet no one seems interested in doing that.
I'm sorry, but this unironically sounds like "white people should never write characters that aren't white."
@@francescov.3610 I agree. Sometimes it feels like white people can only write about white people, while black people can only write about black people, asians can only write about asians, etc.
It sounds so extremely racist and degrading, but that is what it sounds like.
@francescov.3610 It does doesn't it? So no representation, no diversity, no nothing. Everything has to be white. And other none white people can only write about them too or they can write about white people in the worst possible light and that's okay??? Just wondering 🤔
You really can't trust people who refuse to accept the fact that fiction and art, does in fact, influence the "real" world. It is part of the real world. Real people make it. It's not ideas that comes from nowhere 💀
Why is it when people go, "What, we're only allowed to write about straight white people now?" It gives off the vibe of when you talk to a guy and ask, "Could you please not talk about X because it makes me uncomfortable?" and they go, "Well I guess I won't talk at all now!" Like, that's not what anyone said and it comes off extremely childish and just a way to try and shut down the conversation.
EDIT: I also got annoyed when she said, 'allow me the time to continue to edit and re-evaluate the millions of words and thousands of sentences I've written in my nine-year career," Because there was no reason to emphasize the length or how long she'd written them for, it comes off like she's dragging her feet and being bitter having to do it at all. So she's letting everyone know how hard it is for her and everyone should feel bad for her struggles and what they've put her through. At least, that's how that comes off to me.
If you write a character doing something questionable there needs to be things in your book that clearly show you don’t agree or that clearly shows that that character/action is wrong. But as a white author there are things that you shouldn’t write about because you’ve never experienced it. You can write POC characters without making them say slurs or racist jokes.
The whole “cancel culture” thing is beyond stupid, calling someone out on harmful behavior isn’t cancel culture it’s holding someone responsible for the harm they caused to others.
I also cannot stand when white women compare being called names to racial slurs. You being called stupid or ignorant does not have the same impact as a slur that was used to put a whole race of people down. You’re not being affected by it in the same way because you don’t have the history behind it that makes slurs so harmful to the race it’s used against.
Ok, so this writer is clearly tone-deaf and annoying, but I think the idea that writers are required to to prove they denounce bigotry in their stories is ridiculous.
It’s not a writer’s job to showcase their morals. More often than not it just comes off as preachy and self-righteous.
The problem isn’t that she’s not righteous enough. The problem is that relying on stereotypes is lazy, bad writing.
Paul Beatty allows characters to say all sorts of offensive things and never feels the need to pander to his audience. And no, him being a black man doesn’t mean it’s okay. What makes it okay is he’s a great writer, and doesn’t coddle his readers.
I know these criticisms come from a place of good intentions, but it misses the actual problem. She’s a bad writer. Purifying her narrative and characters won’t improve her work. Racism is real. Not some culture war hot potato.
@@ladystoneheart8155 Yeah a lot of these comments are kind of concerning. You can definetly write scenes w racism in your books, even as a white person, without being racist. The idea that a white person has to write books w no scenes that involve racism is absurd, you just need to handle it with the tact and sensitivity that it deserves.
What's clearly? Nabakov thought his intent was clear but clearly it wasn't clear to everyone.
You know some people don't like to consume media that is excessively preachy or which explains everything to the reader like they're 3?
Oh god, I have so many things to say, but I think I said them all on TikTok. I’m literally currently losing one of my oldest readers on Facebook because she’s telling me that as an author, I should be “raising other authors up, not tearing them down.” *sigh*
The issue for me is not that she made these mistakes, but that she blocked Latine people for six months before finally taking action when “enough” people called her out for it.
This reader on Facebook basically said that I’m just jealous that Kate Stewart is so successful. No, because Caroline Peckham and Susanne Valenti are just as successful. It took ONE VIDEO about them using the phrase “sell me down the river” (they’re UK and even as an Aussie, I had only ever heard it used in the sense of selling someone out) for Caroline to respond and apologise before she said they’d be updating their books at once to remove the phrase.
That’s all she had to do. I don’t think anyone’s going to start putting Caroline Peckham and Susanne Valenti on problematic author lists because of it. No. Because they listened and corrected their honest mistake.
People keep telling me that I should be worried about BookTok “turning on me”, particularly because I’ve been so outspoken about these things (I feel, as a white person, we have a responsibility to educate our fellow white people when we can and lessen the emotional labor required for BIPOC to do it).
I don’t worry about it, though. I use sensitivity readers and if I ever misstep (I don’t claim to be perfect!), I plan to follow the course of action that Ruthie Bowles set out in her TikTok about what to do if you publish problematic content (you should check it out if you haven’t yet, it’s brilliant).
I said I didn’t have much to say cause I said them all on TikTok, but here we are…HOW DO YOU WRITE SUCH LONG BOOKS, SIAN?! 🤣
Oh, and I’ve been reading Queenie and the Krakens because of all of this. No regrets. 🥵
I hate when people try to talk about "political correctness" and bull like that, especially when it's not about them. The intent doesn't matter it's how she responded and intention means nothing when you shut down the people you've hurt. I also hate the argument of "you just can't take a joke" when these jokes have done nothing but hurt us in the past. I don't care how many mexican people she knows a stereotype is a stereotype and you can't reclaim what wasn't used against you.
Thank you for these videos, I always look forward to your next upload!
It’s a good thing that woman likes jokes, cuz saying you don’t mind if someone calls you a cracker as some kinda equivalent experience to other races dealing with racism is definitely a joke.
‘It was 5 years ago!’ ‘Ya’ll need to chill.’ ‘It was just a joke.’ And ‘well it wasn’t my intention to…’ are all ways to deflect and get somebody to shut up about legitimate criticism that they don’t want to or don’t feel the need to actually address.
Everybody who came out to defend Kate made points so dumb, they ADDED to her troubles, instead of making things easier for her. With friends like them, who need enemies.
😐
Anywho, from my experience, mainstream romance writers' books are usually filled with sevaral bigotries. It goes with the territory and it's a pretty sad state of affair IMO.
Intent vs impact is such an important distinction. You can have positive intentions but still have a negative impact. Maybe listen to those who felt negatively impacted and try figure out how something you wrote without the intention to harm did so.
I don't think adding racist language in a book is a bad thing, because it really depends on several things. Here's just a few things:
1. Is this book supposed to be historical fiction, and if so, how was racism at the time?
2. Is it portrayed as a bad thing?
3. Who is the person saying it? Do they change throughout the book, and if so, how?
4. Does the author try justifying the racism by depicting a race as bad?
5. Does the book imply any racist beliefs or statements within the book are true?
I think having racism within a story is perfectly fine provided it's handled well with respect to any of the races depicted.
“I’m terrified to write now” Perhaps you could do some research to avoid something like this happening to you 🤔 🤔🤔
I hate when they say that because it’s like… babe if you’re worried then that tells me there’s a 🚩 where you’re concerned! And that you’re not willing to even listen to critical feedback, let alone seek it out
Her having a character pretend to be Madea is problematic in so many ways since Madea is already a caricature of a black woman by a black man. V bad.
Also a bunch of white women talking about how another white woman isn’t racist is so tone deaf like babe this doesn’t impact you so of course you think she’s fine.
i love the lady who said she doesn't get offended by people making fun of her for being from the south and equating it to racism. like that's such a strange way to say you don't understand racism
The big issue I have with "But I have BLANK friends" is that it's an attempt to not learn from making mistakes. We all make mistakes, say sorry, and learn from what happened, it's okay to grow as a person.
I wanna know where the hell this woman is that there is no drama in Booktok/Booktube! 🤣 My earliest memory is the discourse around Zenith and before that there was Tumblr drama. And she’s missed the point, or she’s willfully ignoring the actual conversation? No one said only people can write “x,” we want accountability and to have to be listened to in regards to things like racism and harmful stereotypes. We also want a conversation at the bare minimum about people in privilege positions commandeering communities and identities they themselves are not part of in order to make a quick buck. It never fails to make me laugh about the folks who say they love jokes, freedom or whatever but you can hear the offense they’ve taken in their voice, see it in their flushing complexion or see their bp jump because a vein that wasn’t working a million miles a minute is suddenly visible. Honey we see and hear your hurt feelings or “butt-hurtness.” I’m not touching the conversation with the gal with that unfortunate red lipstick, I don’t have the spoons today.
What I don’t understand is how people gauge fame… like a lot of these authors were well known in their niches for years. That’s not really fame nor is it sudden. They’ll also bounce back. The only time someone doesn’t is if an author is a minority or murdered their husband…and wrote a book about it. And it’s true books are made for different people, at the same time you have to acknowledge books shape people and literal political and healthcare policies because of the ideas/concepts they instill or the credibility they provide to the worst people.
I will agree on the desire for comfort with people like this. I don’t necessarily think some of these people desire to go back in time, but rather they want points (and audible praise) for being forward thinking and accepting without actually doing anything more than lip service. Like the people I grew up around engaged in an endless circle jerk of self-adulatory.
daaaaang Zenith! a throw back! that was before my booktube time so i found out about it so late.
"the only time someone doesn't is if someone is an author and murdered their husband"
true, *husband* murder will have you on the outs.... but if you murder your friends mom when you're 16 you can grow up to have a flourishing writing career apparently. Or if you're wanted for questioning of a murder in a country in the global south. Then you can write a book about it where your main character gets away with it!
Why can't conservatives ever just get to the point they are trynna make? Those tiktoks were like the audio equivalent of paint drying, and wishing I'd get shot in the face a minute in good lord lol
I remember hearing in a youtube video once that If something stings, you should ask why. If you are frustrated by what is happening with Kate Stewart, Why? Why does it sting. That self reflection is uncomfortable but that's kind of the point.
As for those two Tiktokers, I am glad that they loudly let us know that they don't understand or care to understand Media Literacy and the ramifications that fiction can have on real people. Make it easier for me to find them and block them.
So...I only heard vaguely about this before this video, but as someone who is indeed half-Mexican this is so....baffling? Like...I read that excerpt you showed and my reaction was not offense exactly, but more like "what on earth" like it hit a certain level of ridiculousness where you're not even mad you're just confused as to how someone lived under a rock hard enough to think that was ok to do. (I believe "bewildered" is the word I'm looking for here lol.) Like not just living under a rock but like...aggressively living under a rock. I sincerely hope she gets it together and doesn't continue to do harm but I don't think I'm interested in buying any of her works.
That was, i think, the response of the person who brought it to her attention in the facebook group as well. They mentioned how jarring it was to see it on the page especially with it not being plot relevant, and that is a totally valid comment. it's disappointing (and obv inappropriate) to see kate, instead of listening to the impact that that had, immediately use her Latine friend as a shield.
Ok Reene,you seem confused,so let me explain.I’m an LGBTQ ally and write about gay characters.I will never write a homophobic chracter in a good light,because I don’t like those sort of people.Similarily I’m a feminist. So I will never have a character who cat calls woman be a protagonist,at least not without some major character development.You can assume what sort of person the author is through their prose and the behaviours they condone and condem in their work,the way they potray their characters.
And Kate chose to write those racist slurs and never adress it as a negative in her story.She didn’t have to write those,but she did it anyway.Her choice was to use slurs,that she as a white woman,doesn’t have the authority to deem harmless or not.That,Shearer, is the problem.
I came for the history on drama and ended up learning a lot more and some very important things. Thank you!
I'm so glad!
Also, writers can tell stories about other cultures and experiences but it takes great skill and talent to be able to do it well.
If people really think their writing is totally divorced of their viewpoint I’m not sure I wanna be in this world anymore. Good work comrade!
Incredibly weird for that booktoker to call the racism in this book "a fantasy."
I don't understand how anyone can be so obtuse as to think that a character you create is somehow divorced from you as the creator. Whether it's ideology that we once held or currently hold it's still something that comes from us.
"It's not her intention to harm."
Okay? So she should apologize and try to be better in the future.
I have a (insert minority here) friend is just..... How many times does it have to be said that that's not an excuse.
Also. Intent isn't an excuse either.
You can accidentally be a criminal. Or you can intentionally do that same criminal act and then "with intent" or "with intent to harm" will be tacked on.
That's not the same as guilty/not guilty. Both can get a jail sentence, the severity for one is worse.
I thought booktok was one of the "worse" book-social media areas....
If she likes jokes. A lot of people are gonna call her a Karen.
Why are the people defending Kate to a T .... White women who seem to be on a warpath defending these people and take it as a personal slight?
This was a fantastic video, really well put together
Edit: SO well researched omg this is fab
You know when an argument is so dumb, there are so many points wrong, you can't even refute? that is how i feel listings to this tiktoks
The thing is, if you're going to write something that tackles a sensitive topic (e.g. race, gender, sexuality, ethnicity, culture etc.) you have to do your due diligence. You have to do research on it, you have to have nuance, avoid stereotypes, converse with people from the community you're talking about. You have to come to the topic with extreme care and empathy. You can write a good story about someone from a different background than yourself, with different life experiences, but it is imperative that you have tact when you do so. That seems to be what these authors are lacking.
I think they're "lacking: because they don't bother with it, because they think they are above it. It's the issues of entitlement and privilege and intentional ignorance.
'the man who took kate's virginity-' hello? HELLO? Tmi, doesnt add anything to the defence, and oh my god imagine typing that and hitting post confidently lmao
Thank you for doing this. I wasn't able to get the whole story since I came midway of everything. Appreciate your videos!
Love your eye makeup on this vid! 👍
Thank you so much!
Look officer, I know it *looked* like I was going 75 in a 50 zone, but that was actually just a character I'm playing
31:00 so like, the funny thing to me specifically about the undocumented Irish immigrant thing, is I had this history teacher in high school. He put a lot of work into undoing the nightmare of American exceptionalism from public school up until that point. One thing he talked about, especially since we were in Phoenix, AZ, was a friend of his. He was Irish, undocumented, and had lived in the states for about a decade. He had never been questioned about his status, never had to prove anything, even got out of tickets with a quick apology. The room was tense because, well, there were kids there with undocumented family, or deported family members, or who were undocumented themselves. And his point was that anyone who tries to claim racism doesn’t still run the country is being willfully ignorant because it’s that simple. This guy was white and, even with an accent, never had to prove anything to get whatever he needed. Meanwhile, we had all known at least someone who was harassed by police for no reason besides “suspicion of undocumentation”. So yeah that whole point is just really funny to make because yes, her white husband doesn’t count even though he’s undocumented because it’s likely never been a problem for him in any real way.
I think it was Harlan Ellison who said,"Writers take tours in other people's lives." It is true. There is nothing inherently wrong with a person from one race writing in the voice of another, BUT you have to get it right. If you are a guy writing a woman, bounce it off a woman to get it right. DO NOT fill your book with Stephen King's magical black dudes. I had a fascinating discussion once on the bus with a black woman who was reading one of King's novels. She said he liked his books but the black guy in every novel was the same. Same cadence, same personality, same outlook. She said it made reading his books frustrating because they could have been so much better with a little work.
This whole thing reminds me of when a celebrity posts or says something racist and then blames it on sleep medicine. If the thoughts weren't there they wouldn't have said it. An example of an author writing a racist character well would be Bryn Greenwood in The Reckless Oath We Made. The scenes set in the Ozarks were immaculate.
If you're looking for dark romance written by a black author D.W. Thomas is amazing. (check content warnings though, it's dark dark)
Wow thank you for this! This is such an in depth and thoughtful analysis - appreciate the work that goes into these videos!
Thank you so much I super appreciate that
Whenever people are like "well I didn't mean it! So I can't be held responsible!" well I mean, if you accidentally hit a pedestrian with your car.... You didn't intend to hit that person, but they still have a broken arm.
"booktok has no drama usually" from that 2nd tiktoker .... funniest thing i have heard today
You never miss! I’m so happy I discovered your channel after the whole Lightlark drama. Your commentary is so enlightening and you bring attention to a lot of topics that have been swept under the rug. I’m so proud to share a name with someone as cool as you!
That poor doggo who made that pupper the cover of that book? He doesn’t want any part of this? He’s like “hi you humans are a mess can I please go to the park and chase a stick thanks. “
My favorite romance author is Georgette Heyer. No sex (for someone on the asexual spectrum like me, perfect), and a great attention to the details of the period she's writing in (mostly Georgian England).
Just wanted to add that I love Silvia Moreno Garcia and another cute one is Gods of Jade and Shadow. It’s not really romance, but it centers on a romantic relationship and I loved it.
I have heard so many good things about that book I really need to pick it up. I liked certain dark things by the author and I also enjoyed Mexican Gothic but the beautiful ones is definitely my favorite by her so far
@@ReadswithRachel I liked those ones too! I think Gods of Jade and Shadow is my favorite of hers. Velvet Was The Night is another good one. It’s based during the 1970s political unrest in Mexico. Really, Garcia is just a great author.
She's awesome and the interactions i've had with her in DMs have led me to like her on a personal level as well. Really glad she's having success as an author.
I love that you pointed out that they made up those scenarios, because that's the golden point. The short and simple of writing outside your experience is more a question of ethics than a question of skill. What the two women in those tiktoks are getting at is true, but they fail to properly defend their own point because those women want to have the right to make fun of and include the roughest side of cultures that are not theirs. It's like they and people like them feel entitled to the darkest side of any culture, and cry political correctness when called out on it. And what the second woman is doing is facinatingly manipulative. Imagine the rough side of any culture kind of like a closed practice. She's opening her closed practice, by welcoming anyone to call her slurs and joke about her skintone, and then declares that it's childish or immoral for other cultures not to open their practice in the same way. The "you can do it to me so I should be able to do it to you" is a bad argument made in bad faith.
There's a difference between writing about an experience and including an experience. Right, I can write a hospital drama that contains a black surgeon who isn't sanitized from their culture, but their culture and their experience as a black surgeon isn't the focal point of the drama, a specific surgery is. You've included the experience, but you aren't trying to tell a story about that experience because it's been asked over and over again to let black people tell stories about their experience. And if you can't tell the difference between including and telling, then you need to do some more research. It's not that hard to learn the difference, people just don't want to work hard to learn the ethics of writing. They just want their black characters to call each other slurs because black people do that to each other in real life. Ugh.
That being said, there's still a whole slew of ethics of what is appropriate in terms of including this experience. There's statistics to prove that black americans struggle in the workplace compared to others,, that's fine because it's relevant. But throwing in gang affiliations presses your luck because this imaginary hospital drama isn't about gangs, so why would you write the character to have gang affiliaitons. And if suddnely you want this doctor drama to also be about gang violence in black communitites, then you're running back into your first problem: the difference between writing about an experience that isn't your own, or including an experience that isn't your own.
and also for that first lady who's like "these are our characters not us!!!!" there's a way to train your reader brain to tell if it's a character choice or an Author's opinion. which is all about understanding the ethics of writing and the impact of art. I could keep going but this is a four month old video and I've already written a short essay's worth of stuff.
Sigh. On the one hand, I feel like people need to just be okay w being wrong and apologize for that. On the other hand, I can see why it seems pointless to apologize online bc of how many people react with, "your apology means nothing."
“Books are art” yeah and imagine how fuckin dumb I would look if I made a painting about the struggles of being a gay black man in the 80s. Some art just isn’t for you to make bud!
T H I S
"We Are Not From Here" is heartbreaking but SO stunningly beautiful and gorgeously written. Absolutely devastating but so deeply worth the read.
Absolutely love that book
"I write reverse harem but i'm monogamous - except I'd 100% be non-monogamous if I thought I could" ... like that literally just invalidated your point and you say "but that's beside the point" lol what
('you' being that TikToker)
Yeah…when I saw Izzy (HappyForNow) talk about this and saw the virginity comment from Irene, I was like…….what in the whole entire fuck.
Ahhhh I love Izzy!!!!!!
Thank you for introducing me to the world of authors being unhinged on social media!! I’ll never grasp how grown ass adults who construct narratives for a living cannot understand the concept that intention is not impact. Spot-on commentary, love your videos!
Thank you for using Latiné rather than Latinx. As a Latiné person I cannot describe how much I loathe Latinx ❤❤❤
You might hear me use Latinx in older videos but someone suggested I use Latine instead and I’ve stuck with it since. But just fair warning about the old videos!
the colleen hoover reference of ‘everytime someone gets big they get cancelled’ from that one chick made me laugh
just started watching and i have to say: your eye make up is amazing here! i am in awe from this color 😻
Thank you so much! Its been fun to learn how to mess around with colors because i went years just wearing brown
One thing I forgot to mention about the author comparing characters like Spiderman to their actor. She completely ignored the actors who played actual problematic characters in film- a fact that has not been lost on me. For example, the talented David Thewlis, played the father of Bruno in the Boy in the Striped Pyjamas. In both the film and the book, this character was a high ranking Nazi official in charge of a Concentration Camp. Grek Bryk played a plantation owner and owner of slaves in the Canadian historical mini series titled 'The Book of Negroes'- which is inspired by the book of the same name.
She could have used a number of racist, problematic characters represented by actors who do not share their character's views, but instead she goes with Spiderman. I am sure that Spiderman has a lot of issues with how the character is represented, but to my knowledge, Spiderman doesn't spout racist ideology.
Can I say, I love the phrase, "Intent is not impact." I believe there are people who truly do mean well, who fuck up, but still don't understand that their fuck up MUST be addressed and apologized for without invalidating the feelings of the impacted people, whether they intended to hurt anyone or not. I think my parents sadly are these kinds of people. And then there's the 'anti-political correctness" crowd, who don't 'realize' their impact because they have intense biases that 1) validates their problematic narratives (ie. 'I'm just writing what I know/see/what's real') and 2) don't care whether they offend these specific people groups because they don't see these people and their concerns as valid. Therefore they deeply resent being called out, and called 'racist' when they won't acknowledge the impact they've had.
I'm half Mexican and have most of my life with my mom and her family- I have never experienced anyone saying a slur like that. Is that something other people do? Like we joke about stereotypes- big families, parties, drinking, lots of people in tiny spaces, always having chile and tortillas on hand- but not slurs. Is that something that's an actual thing?
Is this one Floridian too?
This is kind of unrelated but I really appreciate you saying "latine" instead of latinx. As a hispanic person, it's really uncomfortable to say latinx because its physically hard to say that word in Spanish. The x sound can't be added in like in english and it feels like non-spanish speaking people are just trying to tell us how to speak our own language. "Latino" is gender-neutral- which I feel like many don't understand. Latine is a word which IS used in some hispanic cultures and means the same as latinx. Latine is much easier and more comfortable to say in spanish and it's more respectful to how my language is spoken. Thank you and love your content!
Wow! Took Spanish all through school and have Guatemalan cousins and have some latine heritage myself-no one ever told me about the word, latine. I’ll have to remember that in lieu of Latin-x or Latino. Thanks!
I'm glad someone else pointed it out, and as a Hispanic person I've never heard of Latine either but I like that so much better than the Latinx nonsense
Shhhhiiiit I've been on a romance kick so I just checked and thank god no Kate Stewart on my kindle! Thanks for the heads up, nothing ruins the romance feelgoods like lazy stereotypes, yikes. And thank you so much for all your hard work explaining stuff like dog whistles, etc. You are my justice diva! 😍💜
I think part of the problem is that a lot of nuanced arguments get boiled down to their basic components and then hurled at not necessarily the right person. The failure of representation in these books is a failure on the authors part; they either failed to research their work properly (hubris), or they do not have the craft and skill necessary to turn that research into a story without falling back on racist stereotypes, or they simply lack the skill necessary to consider their writing from perspectives other than their own and see how an inside joke might play out differently for strangers. These failures are not necessarily indicitive of an ontological stain on the authors soul, they do not mean that the author is a Capital Letter Racist, but they are failures that are indicitive of poor authorial skill, and so I think it is reasonable for a reader to say "these failures make me think less of this persons skill as an author and so I am not going to read their books any more."
That said, I do think it is possible for people to create art about a culture that is not their own in a well researched and respectful manner that then produces good pieces of art. I cant think of a book off the top of my head, but for a film you could consider The Raid, which is a celebration of Indonesian silat martial arts and artists, written and directed by a welsh man.
On the other hand, the issue of there not being enough authors from marginalised cultures being given a chance to tell and publish their own stories is not an argument against any particular author who then tries to tell that story, regardless of how well or poorly they do in telling that story. It is an argument against the publishing industry and it is not helpful, i think, to hold authors accountable for the decisions of the publishing industry. particularly those authors who have little to no power themselves within the publishing industry. I think we should celebrate authors like Rick Riorden who, as soon as he had the money and clout to do so, did start publishing work by traditionally overlooked authors. But when it comes to critiquing the work of an author, I think we risk undermining our arguments, at least on an emotional level, when we begin to appear to be using an authors lack of talent as a reason to blame them for failures that are structural to the publishing industry.
just found your channel today, you're both entertaining and articulate topics so well, i end up learning new things about the world every video!! new fav booktuber ❤️
Very interesting post. I wasn’t surprised that ‘American Dirt’ came up. Plenty of relevant references
I thought so too! Thanks for watching
You are absolutely brilliant. Articulate, thoughtful, and you bring the receipts. BRAVO!!!!!
Thanks so much 😊
Just because something is fiction doesn’t mean the authors view points aren’t being expressed in that writing. These folks are insufferable.
what is she talking about? no one cares what she reads, this is the kind of bad-faith argument that shuts down intelligent conversations. but that's what she wants, she has to fight a straw man bc she isn't smart enough to engage with the actual issue. also, white people have been writing so many white stories to the point where people who ask for a little diversity get told that they can't tell authors what to write. but whatever, why engage with an actual issue when you can make one up? again, misses the whole point. being called 'cracker' is not offensive, nor is being called 'southern'. she's making another bad-faith argument. there are racist right-wing sites these people could sell their books on but no, they like the rise they get when they offend the masses so they, as privileged white people, can finally have something to complain about and say they are oppressed. there shouldn't be anything homophobic or racist in these books, period. the guilty dog barks the loudest, the only people upset are those who know that accountability is right around the corner and that being racist is no longer acceptable. white people, who aren't racist, are coming for the ones who are and they actually have the power to force accountability and that's why these racist authors are terrified. and it is magnificent to watch.
That second tiktoker saying what she reads isn't the business of the people viewing her tiktoks..... why make tiktoks about books then? If it's... not anybody's business? 🤡 sounds like it's their business if they agree with you, huh?
Another amazing video with wonderful discussion and commentary, and a rundown of a book situation I had no idea was happening!
I hate conservative media so much. My 80 year old grandparents are saying shit like "woke" and "critical race theory" and so clearly have no idea what any of it means. They're old and retired; their lives ARE the politics they see on Fox, so there's nothing else to talk about. The first time my grandfather said "woke" over the phone to me I disassociated. Missed the entire conversation. Absolutely absurd. Like it was so wrong, you know? Frankly, I think I'd prefer if he'd just said a slur because at least I know he knows what THAT means. Conservative media is poison in our wells.
That racial sensitivity training thing was incredibly interesting because the training did lead to complete grifts like Robin D'Angelo, Jen Pan did a great breakdown of how many of those courses were a way for majority white managment to exert more firing and disciplinary power on the worker and D'Angelo herself alienated and made uncomfortable black attendees. Wouldn't have banned them but definitely looked into them over whether there was value than make it a culture war thing to appeal to right wing whites
I’m only halfway through the video but… how come only white women are commenting on this situation 💀 I sure am hearing a lot of southern accents in these tiktoks so far! 💀 No wonder they aren’t offended by the slurs!
No but seriously, this video I think is my favourite of yours so far. It’s so well articulated and thoroughly researched. And just insanely well done. 🤘
Can you please do a video on Anna Todd and the “after” series?
Sure! I can make it happen
I mean… I don’t know her personally… But as a fellow Southern person who’s grown up around it enough, I can almost guarantee that the second lady uses the hard R when she’s not recording… 😬😬
And to go into slightly further detail about the sort of people I’m referring to… I was trying to describe how book ads on a certain site work, with keywords and negative keywords (where I type in words I wouldn’t want my book showing up for like for instance “free book”) and this person used the exact same dog whistle about how “that doesn’t sound like freedom of speech”. 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
I am white. Grew up in an area where most of my friends were Latino, even have an uncle is Mexican. My parents decided to move to MO small country. I had an accent, darker skin color, cause I played out in the Sun all day everyday living in Florida, and I was bullied. I was literally called racist slurs and even told to go back to my own country from the other kids at school.
I have a more lived experience of a Latino individual than Kate and I would NEVER write about the lived experiences of Latino people. Because what little I went through is nothing compared to what they go through and only they will be able to accurately tell a life experience like theirs, becaause they lived it. They know how it feels and the struggels they went through. I can only relate to a very small level.
I have to admit, having characters do or say shit does not mean it's the opinion of the author or that they are condoning it. That said, she could have handled this better. It's nuanced. I remember seeing people going nuts over the uncharitable inner thought of a character and going to town on the author. As if we can't be terrible assholes in our own minds. What somebody is saying, doing or thinking in a story is one thing. However the story acting like these things are normal, reflective of reality or absolute is where it passes from "it's a character" to "it's the author".
That said, the two white women defending that author made me incredibly uncomfortable, because they either do not understand the criticism or they do but choose to pretend criticism of books is something that is bad, should not happen or is somehow because people hate the author. No, I don't intend to call the second woman a "cracker" but I also would not trust her judgment for anything, because she is intellectually dishonest. The exact reasons for the criticism are clear. Both women choose to pretend that not only nobody else can have an opinion but that there is a right opinion and that opinion is the opinion they share. The very concept that somebody else could disagree with them clearly does not enter their brains. Which is concerning, to say the least.
I’m laughing so hard at the performative running eye makeup. “Look at me. I’m weeping from y’all’s bullying.” Also, that woman uses y’all just to sound more badass.