Why Sekiro's Combat is still better than Elden Ring's (DLC)
Вставка
- Опубліковано 5 лип 2024
- Sekiro is still the best combat FromSoft have produced. A game with a single weapon. Highly recommend!
Like and Subscribe for more content like this! :)
Divine Beast Dancing Lion (Elden Ring Shadow of the Erdtree)
Gyoubu Masataka Oniwa (Sekiro)
Guardian Ape (Sekiro)
#eldenring #gaming #sekiro #fromsoftware #eldenringdlc - Ігри
i liked both but i still liked sekiro by leaps and bounds despite its flaws, with elden ring i feel like some of the design decisions feels suffocating to play with and makes some encounters not as fun as it should be
I agree, I didn't get as much satisfaction in the DLC boss fights (especially the final boss second phase), even though Sekiro was arguably more challenging.
I’m on the Elden beast and I just started playing sekiro again. The way the tarnish controls feels like he’s a cripple or something the bosses are way to fast for his mobility. It feels like wolf was made for Elden rings speed he’s way more nimble and the parry and posture meter makes the game more enjoyable. I don’t feel bad about cheesing in Elden ring the controls are too slow
@@TurtlePops Sir/Madam you should about
1. Bloodborne is better than Elden Ring (DLC)
2. Dark Souls is better than Elden Ring (DLC)
3. Nioh & Nioh 2 is better than Elden Ring (DLC)
In sekiro you can stand your ground against almost anything, in dark souls you have to wait for the boss to finish doing a cool combo that you can't do and then attack
No, you don't. Not nearly as often as people claim.
@@liquidreality472proof?
@@TomBombadill85 many bosses allow you to use positioning and/or jumping to attack during the combo, you're not forced to wait
If it was worth the time I'd make a video. There's enough out there already that serve as your "proof".
@@TomBombadill85 Loopine - What Joseph Anderson got wrong about Elden Ring
@@liquidreality472 You are right, I'm gonna edit my original comment. You can stand your ground against most attacks from most enemies
Sekiro: 1000 step forward - 0 step backward
Elden ring: 10 step forward - 100000000000 step backward
Elden ring has a lot of input eating and stores actions from what I've experienced. Sekiro's combat was amazing, kind of weird to add sekiro like bosses into the dlc tho
Also in Souls and ER, you roll when you RELEASE the the roll button, but in Sekiro, you immediately dash the moment you press it and then it transitions to sprint when holding. Also there are a lot of better options for ranged combat and gap closing, shurikens throw immediately, and can be followed up with a gap closing thrust, Spears with pulling effect and combat arts.
OFC sekiro combat is better , it's fluid , has no restrictions with stamina and sekiro himself isn't gimped
The camera in sekiro is way better than elden ring. I don’t know why they insist on having the camera up the players ass when fighting big bosses like dancing lion. In sekiro it’s zoomed out and you can perfectly see everything.
Sekiro and Bloodborne were Froms peak at combat design, and overall animation design too.
Sekiro is by far the best combat in video games period, then lies of p. Elden ring is still my favorite overall game though. I love all three of these games. Just amazing
I have not played Sekiro, but I see the criticism with Elden Ring's combat. I think the big problem is that tying dodges and blocking to the same stamina you attack with severely limits what both the player and bosses can do. Players need to relent in order to regain stamina, and bosses need to give openings for players to recover their stamina.
If dodging/blocking had its own stamina, and panic rolling was limited by roll stamina, From wouldn't need to give every boss roll catch combos. I also think the jump input is underutilized. It'd be cool if inputing roll>jump did an acrobatic handspring out of your roll that lacked s but acted as a way to proactively avoid attacks with positioning, as well as a more stamina intensive alternative to sprinting.
build variety shouldn't be the issue, they're just different movesets afterall. but the fact they got rid of deflect parries through timed blocks is really hurting the experience. i don't want to roll around like an idiot for seconds which feel like eternity, i want to actually fight the bosses like in sekiro. :/
Elden Ring: *adds Deflecting Hardtear*
Sekio: Look what they need to do to mimic a fraction of our power!
It's because Elden ring is unbalanced
Man.. I only wish the
Deflecting tear was somewhat permanent. Like put it in a talisman or something. That would make elden ring like 50% sekiro at least lol
I’m happy with how long it lasts. You can get from one grace to the next while it’s still active, then beat a boss and it’ll still be active
with how elden ring is if it was a talisman you would have took more damage on block or something .
I wish they kept the physick version the way it is and that they made a talisman version that doesn’t buff your damage with every successive deflect and guard counter. They could probably balance it out as a talisman .
Sekiro's combat is just leagues beyond any other Souls games. The Soulsborne series uses almost the exact same thing with the exception of Bloodborne (gun parrying) and Elden RIng (jumping, crouching, guard counters, ashes of wars). I think it's kinda unfair to compare Sekiro to any of the Soulsborne in that regard.
Bloodborne also had trick weapons and a quickstep dodge which puts it above every souls game except sekiro
While i love the buildcrafting and rpg elements i yearn for from to put more focused ability sets/player fantasies into a game. Sekiro's framework is amazing.
Definitely a video that I agree with (besides playing on English dub, “how my blood boils” feels wrong) because Sekiro is generally my favourite game in terms of combat of all time, only thing that comes close is doom 2016 and Trepang2. Although, one thing I do have to say is there’s a few things that aren’t entirely accurate in the video.
Main ones I want to mention is the grapple hook, camera, and i-frame things. There are technically only a few bosses that use the grapple hook, and those are some of the worst bosses, main one would be demon of hatred that comes to mind. I think the game really shines when it comes to the proper duels with the human enemies, and generally the grapple seems like a bandaid fix for the more questionable parts of the game.
The camera, to put it lightly, will probably always be a problem, and is certainly a problem on occasion in Sekiro. Elden Ring has bad camera bosses on occasion as well, of course, but honestly I would say Bloodborne is the worst for it, albeit with a good excuse of trying new things.
And the I-frame thing, I just don’t entirely understand. The I-frame dodge in Sekiro being bad is an odd misconception. It’s really easy to abuse unlocked dodging, and I really only use the very overtuned I-frames for ogre because he’s kinda eh.
Also, the attacks are called perilous attacks, and are able to be mikiri countered or jumped, depending on what type it is, and thrusts can be parried.
Thanks for some of the clarification, I just picked up Sekiro a few weeks ago after the DLC and I'm obsessed with it. The i-frame issue I had was with Elden Ring tbh, not Sekiro. It feels like the game wants you to exploit the i-frames by dodging directly into enemies or their weapons.
@@TurtlePops That’s honestly awesome to hear people getting into Sekiro still. The first 3 bosses are typically a massive deterrent for people, but goodness does it get really good. In regards to the I-frame thing, honestly that’s just how the series has been, either revolving around dodging or blocking, which the ladder has been definitely made mostly exclusive to the greatshields due to the previous games, mainly Dark Souls 1/2. I think the combat system is fine. I personally don’t play most From games for the combat generally anymore, and that’s mainly because I don’t personally like the rolling and whatnot in terms of gameplay. But I still play them because the world they show and stories they tell are 10/10 imo. So I can definitely understand, and relatively relate on that front.
I played ds3 for the first time and my second play through of sekrio after the dlc I find my self enough enjoying them more oddly
Give me sekiro's move set in any DS game or elden ring and all the bosses automatically become easy. From soft went lazy on elden ring when it comes to its core combat
Whats that balance meter comes when fighting
I liked sekiro that i bought 2 copy of the discs. Now i love elden and also bought 2. Love elden, but sekiro combat is always the best to me
Amazing video. We all know, it is very challenging to evaluate these games. For me, too many things on the screen is the main problem. Elden Ring is such a huge game, and it is unbelievable that they designed so many bosses while maintaining the quality. Making them different and epic sometimes requires extraordinary things, so making it super-polished with these plethora of factors is nearly impossible. On the other hand, Sekiro provides pure combat, I think. Even with the big bosses, you can literally see everything clearly. Most of the enemies fight with katana or spear, not having huge area effects but super attack patterns. That makes its combat beautiful. But they didn't design many bosses, unfortunately. That's the biggest flaw. In conclusion, I agree Sekiro's combat is better, but it is easy to master it for a determined and enjoying player because of the lack of uniqueness.
I think the issue is a simple one: Elden Ring was designed around summons/spirit ashes.
Elden Ring bosses pack backwards attacks they use when switching aggro, because... they were designed to switch aggro. Which they don't do when fighting a single target (you).
Elden Ring bosses punish healing far more than bosses from other FromSoft games, because... you're supposed to wait until something else pulls aggro before you heal.
So when someone tells you that you didn't beat Elden Ring properly because you summoned or use spirit ashes, you can turn it around on them and tell them THEY didn't beat Elden Ring properly, lol
From that perspective, the poorly telegraphed attacks actually make sense: even if you get hit, it's fine. Just make sure someone else pulls aggro and then back off to heal. Work together, adapt, overcome.
It's just... that's not how we play these games. If we play this game how we want to play it, we're in for a bad time.
That's why I think Sekiro remains the GOAT. It's hard as hell, but satisfying. The final boss took me days, but I didn't mind that because (besides me not really having this issue with any of the other bosses) I could typically reflect on his moves and realize what I did wrong. I couldn't really do that with Elden Ring. What do you do against [SOTE final boss]'s six meteors attack? I tried hard to dodge it. Turns out you have to run backwards and then jump to the side at the last second, if ONGBAL is any indicator. But maybe he didn't even do it right. I don't know. It's hard to tell. The clarity just isn't there, and I certainly couldn't have figured even that solution out on my own.
I'm deviating from the point though, lol. Good video. I still enjoyed this game, but it's good to analyze where exactly it messed up. And favorably comparing Sekiro to anything never gets old, lol
Please stop with this whole "You were meant to play with spirit summons" bs. I've gone through elden ring without summons, and it is still just as fun as any other game in the series.
Elden ring is great, and sekiro is still arguably better due to its tightly refined combat designed around Wolf and the tools he uses (which is more defined than one of the many builds you can make in the souls games). I don't disagree with the notion, I just don't approve of essentially making things up about one to try to prop up the other.
I do have to replay sekiro again. Mr. Skillcheck remains one of my favorite fights in video games.
@@TheFabledDavid>Game gives you a mechanic
> "You are not supposed to use it"
My man, if you beat without summons fine. I too think it is more fun solo. But there is no way, and i repeat, NO FUCKING WAY, the developers would put something so game changing like allies that hit and take aggro and DO NOT balance around it. It. Doesn't. Make. Sense.
@prinnydude5864 I never said you weren't supposed to use it. I'm arguing against the notion that frames the bosses increased aggression as "proof" that you are meant to play with summons. People can play whichever way they want and saying things "the game is unfair because they want you to use spirit summons" is just misinformation that turns people off of the game because they'll think that they need to use "+10 spearmaster Chadicus" ashes in order to play the game with thier pure melee build.
Hope that clears it up.
@@TheFabledDavid Ah, ok, i kinda got it wrong then. My point is that not only the great aggression of the bosses: the wide sweeps and retaliating backsteps are a way of the boss dealing with multiple aggros.
The devs aren't stupid. Saying that they gave multiple summons to use as we please that we can upgrade and say they DIDN'T think about this when designing the bosses are calling them stupid. HOWEVER this doesn't imply that you can't fight them 1v1, since they have some experience on 1v1 battles ( and even if you share aggro, eventually will be you and the boss. The point is that if you keep going ALONE in the boss can be a little overwhelming if you don't know what you are doing )
Sekiro's combat is interesting and easy to master. While elden ring has huge amount of options for combat but you can't go wrong with it
Elden ring >
because you can jump on the boss while bleeding on a katana and deal 2000 damage, and not parry
Of course because sekiro is all about being focused with the combat while eldin ring is more about exploration and spectacle
I believe both are so different and unique in their own right to the point that it would be unfair to say one is better over the other. It’s a matter of preference. It’s a good debate to have though because we can come to appreciate and love both styles. Great vid 👍
I don’t think you should really compare Sekiro and Elden Ring’s combat systems because the systems are so fundamentally different. In Sekiro, your clearly rewarded by being aggressive and learning how to deflect the moves the boss responds with (most of the time). In Elden Ring, your rewarded for playing defensively and learning the bosses attacks and timings OR for using the wide variety of tools at your disposal (spirit summons, ashes of war, npc summons, status buildups, charged attacks, etc.) to brute force your way through. Sekiro feels better because in that game even when your setting yourself up as optimally as possible before boss fights, you’re still (for the most part) required to learn the bosses attacks and deflect properly. Elden Ring doesn’t have this same challenge, because there are so many things you can to do to trivialize bosses and the normal enemy encounters the game throws at you (such as shields). This creates a dilemma for many players: either use all the tools at your disposal and blaze through bosses without getting the satisfaction of having “earned” the victory, learn the bosses attacks and dodge and punish accordingly, or do a mix of both. The real answer to how to enjoy Elden Ring’s combat is to whatever YOU think is fun, and whatever makes YOU feel satisfied winning. However, as a result of the build variety in the game some methods of defeating bosses work better than others. This can make the game frustrating especially if you choose to play without summons as some bosses may leave to little openings or have moves that you can only inconsistently dodge or are too hard for most players to figure out how to dodge on their own (waterfowl, commander gaius charge, SOTE final boss’ clone moves). Theres a lot more I want to add but I’ve already written a lot so I’ll leave it at that.
You're also right in that regard. For me, souls games have always been on exploration and survival, not spectacular boss duels. Which is why DS3 is my least favorite. Elden Ring is more about exploration and getting powerful against the odds.
Yeah I’m glad you touched on it a bit, the fact that trying to tackle ER without leveraging all its unique new ways of being OP can kinda suck. To quote you: “many bosses may leave little openings or have moves that you can only inconsistently dodge.” This kind of design just encourages a race to find and abuse the most unbalanced parts of the game possible, since the scales by default tip in bosses’ favors. I love a satisfying challenge; I do not love a game encouraging you to circumvent or match one with unreasonable bs of your own.
I’ll also add another facet: I hate how often bosses have moves specifically meant to trigger based on what feels like either proximity and/or player animation reads. Especially the attacks that quickly punish you for taking advantage of gaps in boss attack patterns.
From the very first major boss, Margit, the game establishes that it’ll be unreasonably cruel towards your attempts at being proactive in fights. It does so by interrupting ongoing boss attacks with fast, nigh-unavoidable mixup moves meant to discourage or interrupt your attempts at getting attacks of your own in-and if this bothers you in one boss, get ready to see it dozens more times in other fights.
The problem for me with ER is that when playing it mostly as if it was any other Souls game, its boss design makes this approach not fun. There’s little I can do to make it fun, because it’s a fundamental game design and approach issue I have with ER. The inability to get out of it what I loved about DSIII, Bloodborne, or Sekiro is so fundamentally rooted in ER’s design that it’s inescapable.
There’s ways to mimic the other From games I enjoy (Quickstep Ash for Bloodborne, Deflect Tear for Sekiro) but neither are as satisfying or polished as they are in the game where they’re a base game mechanic the whole game was designed for.
It also doesn’t help that this game is closest in base mechanical behavior to Souls III, which had already pushed its boss design at times to the limit of what Souls gameplay can keep up with. Elden Ring goes past that line in the sand, without giving the game’s base mechanics anything to keep up with that “boss power creep” of sorts.
The tools you do have to try to keep up with the crazy bosses (summons, status builds, ranged magic spam) are very overtuned and feel like avoidance of challenge rather than overcoming it in a way that makes me feel cool, proud, or thrilled. Other ones like Quickstep Ash or Deflect Tear feel like bandaid fixes that would have been better off being basic gameplay features (albeit maybe a bit weaker if they were universal mechanics).
Elden Ring’s greatest strength is variety and the ability to approach it how you like. However, in that pursuit From eliminated the ability for some players to get the gameplay experience they desire and felt satisfaction from in previous From games. Not to say ER should be identical to any past game, but that it should be better at capturing their appeal, the fun of “hard but (usually) fair.” ER is a good and ambitious game, but often impossible for me to have fun or be satisfied with, sadly.
This just looks your first try at the boss
Elden ring is the only from soft game I don’t enjoy. I try so hard to because I’ve played the entire souls anthology, grew up on it, but Elden ring is just frustrating and not in a good way. I Love sekiro.
I love Elden ring bro it’s currently my most favorite game of all time but I respect your opinion 🫶
I think elden ring was designed with spirit ashes in mind. When I use those it’s not nearly as frustrating. But some people refuse to engage with this mechanic and then complain about difficulty. I don’t think that in particular is valid.
@@C4Dude3 Elden Ring has some of the hardest bosses in Fromsoft games and the learning curve is very rough at first. That unless using spirit summons or guides with meta builds, with those the game becomes not that hard. Sekiro is very hard for the first 10 hours into the game, and then becomes too easy (was the cas for me at least). But it's ok to not like Elden Ring, not everyone likes the games for difficulty and many people don't have time to learn and get better at the game for better experience
The only thing missing to make Elden Ring a true masterpiece!
Build variety is not an excuse to have awful and simple dodge mechanics and not have a parry button
Elden Ring is the best SoulsBorne combat other than Sekiro, with that I agree. Elden Ring is much better than DS3 and Bloodborne combat at least, there's no doubt in that
What elden ring did well to improve upon the ds3 combat formula is make charged attacks and ashes of war much more useful and necessary. Instead of the unending r1 spam that was ds3 and bloodborne. Although the trick weapons of bloodborne are still some of the coolest and most unique fromsoft has ever designed
@@buffoonustroglodytus4688 Stance mechanics and jumping add an enormous amount of utility too, jump gives you s and you can use jump to avoid attacks while simultaneously attacking enemies with jump heavy. Stance mechanics is consistent and has separate bar (unlike DS3), so it makes a world of a difference compared to DS3 combat. IMHO Elden Ring is much more different than DS3 compared to Bloodborne, simply looking at the amount of stuff Elden Ring introduces, especially now that DLC is out with deflecting crystal tear. Elden Ring is the most unique and the best combat in Fromsoft franchise if we exclude Sekiro
Elden ring has a pretty bad combo system.
It makes up for having almost jo complexity in its combat system by having a ton of weapons and spells.
Personally I always hated that kind of combat system
Gamers Still only want a sequel to Sekiro Rather Than multiple Shitty Dlcs for Elden Ring, Letrally, There Is Not even a Single Dlc For Sekiro Even after Bieng a Major Success and bieng still the best, From soft Is Nuts
Fromsoft is smart. Of course they’re going to focus on elden ring, their most profitable game by literal miles and miles. Fromsoft would be stupid if they didn’t make elden ring dlc.
You used the worst dlc boss as an example. Lol
Guys why are we complaining about the game two years after release?
It just received an expansion
get gud
Tbh I really did find Sekiro a disappointment overall. The battle system didn't click for me in any way. It had some stand out amazing fights like Isshin, Owl etc. But overall it felt too easy.
Bro is just hating
If there were more viable combat options than just slash and parry and riposte in Sekiro I’d say it has better combat but Elden ring has sorceries, incantations, multiple types of close quarters combat aswell as many ranges of far ranged combat that have viable options in every category therefore to me making it more fun and better but that’s just my opinion W vid 🫶🏽
Fair enough, The variety in Elden Ring is definitely amazing! Thank you!
You forgot jumping on heads, and springlock tools
@@empyrean2271 Yup, pretty much. Although Sekiro has very tight and fluid combat, more polished than any other Fromsoft game, the combat is too simplistic and becomes easy midway through the game. Sekiro is very hard at first but very easy later on, even too easy and repetitive I'd say. Elden Ring on the other hand, is very easy for newbies with amount of broken stuff if gives to the player like spirit summons. But it's very hard to become really good at Elden Ring, unlike in Sekiro. Just looking at the amount of no hit runners, speedrunners and no dodge roll challenge runners, etc, Elden Ring is the best Fromsoft game for honing your skills. And yeah it has the best gameplay variety in any game I've ever seen. There's hundreds of builds and cosplays to try, so many challenge runs you can do, that no wonder Elden Ring is still viral and content surrounding it is still reaching tens of millions of views consistently, because every new week we see someone doing a challenge run that nobody did before, we fins out stuff about the lore that nobody knew before that, like the game simply keeps on giving even to this day. Sekiro imp is a better first time experience, meaning it's the best Fromsoft game for a first playthrough due to very intuitive gameplay and clear story narrative. But imo Elden Ring is simply the best Fromsoft game by far, it has everything, great lore, great character designs, great OST, absolutely great combat, build variety and many other things. Unfortunately, due to the game having balancing issues and being hard/not very intuitive at first, a lot of people don't get to really enjoy this masterpiece. Like imo Elden Ring is one of those games that grow on you, with each playthrough, if you give it time and are willing to learn, get good at the game and pay attention to what the game has to offer.