NOTES: Other possible Crucibles / Crucible tech as per your brilliant comments: - Graven Mass (Commenter: nar1768) - Castle Mourne and the Misbegotten (Commenter: faman00) PS. Fighting a losing battle with a sore throat while recording this, hence sounding like a finger crone when I was revising my mispronunciation of PLASID-YEWW-SAX (Gave up, wrote in correction lmao). I also have changed my popfilter and changed the context (Uncomfortable, but quiet[er]) and the program I use to record, but those Rainbow lorries are a joke. I hope things are audible for you all, I am less afraid of mutilating your ears with Ss Ps Ts etc, so we can be a little louder :D Let me know if you love it, or hate it, turn it up, turn it down- ETC. Thanks for watching!! Please butcher each other in the comments in a glorious Lore Frenzy
We can always make the video quieter, it's making it louder that's tricky! Also, sounds good, and also the actual real key to a good audio experience is consistent volume bands. If it's loud, make the whole thing loud, if it's quiet make the whole thing quiet. The absolute worst thing is to have random volume spikes, or alternating periods of higher and lower sound so people are adjusting multiple times per view. If it's generally consistent, that's how you get the people who will listen while they sleep. That's %watch time, baybee
the crucible is evolution without direction. not just evolution of the body, but of the spirit as well, which takes inspiration from natural phenomena if it has no outside direction. this means that it also needs to decompose dead spirits (not only flesh) in order to evolve (directed or not) - so misporportion of dead bodies\spirits might twist it as well. the Greater Will wants to direct the crucible into something specific. The Rot wants to devolve it (so it can evolve again into something else). The Frenzied Flame wants to burn it entirely. Death Blight is allowing the spirits to evolve, but the flesh to stagnate. once a person has the potential to affect a crucible - the various outer gods try to influence that person, in order to manifest their will - as they are only capable of affecting entities with free will, which the crucible does not have. it's just evolving ooze. the crucible is a mindless force. a resource for the outer gods to fight over and shape by influencing the minds of people who can access it.
While certainly accurate, I think its origins are just as important, its main patron seems to be the formless mother but how did she get introduced to the larger world? the blood fiends supposedly had their villages burned and found her in the blood of the aftermath, it does not state who’s blood, I believe the reason the giants once had horns, is because they were the original patrons of the first crucible, before the gate of divinity was bond to the helix of the elden ring, there was the forge of ruin, and its star lit ashes that fed the birth of new life
The gate of divinity also shows the major difference between direct sacrifice and outer influence, the fire giants and dragons simply worshiped the old spiral of life and gold was returned to the elden ring as ashes, the gate only gains influence through the sacrifice of gold directly to the formless mother, I believe the rune of death is “stained” red not naturally red, touched by the growing influence of the “formless mother” which sounds like a crucible full of blood or primordial matter, like the mother of vinegar literally being the thing that births vinegar.
Personally I have concluded that elden ring is a story of red and blue, fire and stars, blood and gold, sacrifice and reverence, the crucible and the elden ring, and why the age we bring about is always the correct one, by unsealing death at the original force still connected to it we complete the world as it were, it was so close to perfect order but marika was petty and banished those she scorned, damning her order to always have enemies far and wide.
@@RedEyedDRAG00N Well Bayle in particular is different from the other 2 cuz he has lightning and the gravel stone scales of ancient dragons, and immortality, but he has 2 limbs of drakes
@@RedEyedDRAG00N I'm pretty sure he is, even though it isn't included in his title. He's said to have betrayed Placidusax and the other ancient dragons, and we fight other ancient dragons who seem to serve under him. At the very least, he's a dragon and he's very, very old.
@@RedEyedDRAG00Ndepends on what you’re calling an ancient dragon. Bayle was an ancient dragon made to displace placiduesex to eat the parasitic erdtree. But he was too effective and turned all of dragon kind against him. In turn fathering all drakes
If a mass amount of blood needed to spilt for the portal to the dlc to work, there’s a chance it simply took two years of farming albinaurics to get the gears turning.
From the time we rested in front of stormveil and received torrent we were under kindly miquella’s spell we were given a subconscious thirst for albinaurics in mohg’s palace specifically just so we could get to the dlc confirmed???
It really makes sense with the drakes having feathers, scales and horns, Bayle being an omen would just be further evidence i think strongly supports this
I know I’m not the only one who noticed pre dlc, the issue with souls like lore is that people will see something “logically” implied and say “well there’s no hard evidence”, like the main line in the elden ring that pierces marikas rune of eternity and malikaths rune of the end, is likely the twin helix rune of life
@@heatheroutre agreed, but I was namely just speaking on the matter of things like marika being radagon is considered by some as just speculation because the game never directly shows the character admitting it, such behavior stifles the theoretical process of lore hunting
The crucibles being nuclear reactors, and thus giving unnatural side effects; that is SO GOOD!! Everyone planning to make a crucible video can peace out now because this is now the standard. Going in my filing cabinet to reference from now on 💛
Your the person who's video suggested Marika was a pot person! I literally just commented about it but wasn't her who the OP was. How do you factor in Marika meeting Myter, mother of fingers, into times lines? Im struggling Marika, radagon, Fingers connection in the DLC. The GreatJar item confirms the death into life possibility (pot person). But doesnt really explain what the seduction and betrayal is either... too many questions.
Couple thinks I think are worth noting: One, I'm fairly certain that Romina would be more considered as the result of an unintentional crucible, forged by Messmer's crusade rather than Hornsent experimentation. It's a similar story as the bloodfiends, in which their respective annihilated villages resulted in an outer god being drawn to them. Romina, a survivor of the church after its burning to the ground, bears witness to the god of rot attracted to such a sacrifice, and becomes its servant. The bloodfiends, whose villages were reduced to ash, in preparing to mourn and honor their dead, bear witness to the Formless Mother, attracted by the loss of life, and begin to worship her, descending into the bloodfiends we see now. Both were accidental, undirected crucibles brought about by the war, prompting potential grand events.
The bloodfiends were created by looking upon a twisted deity... Which given the outer god talisman I am lead to believe is the giant tutelary deity we see in mesmers specimen area.
Yeah. The Formless Mother, manifesting in the bodies piled up in Messmer's fiery crucible of a war. The talisman's description pretty heavily implies it with mentions of the fires. "The clan, who lost everything in the great fires, peered upon the corpse of their ancestor, normally an act of sanctity, and saw in its shadow a twisted deity. The clan had suffered such torment that the horrible thing was taken as an object of worship." Bloodfiends are just one of several byproducts of this crucible, with the destruction of their villages and slaughter of their people, a tremendous loss of life, enticing the Formless Mother to manifest and give them new power.
I think it's worth mentioning I don't think the corpse is something in the specimen warehouse. It's likely referring to the Formless Mother appearing during funerary rites.
@@KoopaKrump When you look at the talisman it looks like a tutelary deity that is on the other side of the tree worship sanctum in mesmers castle before the scadutree :P I'll be making a short on it soon ngl
The Crucible of Goderick. When we first see Goderick, he has killed and grafted many lives onto his body already. He has a dragon next to him, which he quickly grafts onto himself when we start to overcome him. And outside the castle is Rodericka, a shaman, who is sensitive spirits including rancorous spirits, who in the best of cases would be able to bind the rancouous spirits grafted onto his body into a harmonious whole. If Goderick's crucible were successful, he would ascend to a dragon form.
@@ScumMageInfaif the 3 fingers Crucible, Putrescent Godwin Crucible in Deeproot, the city of the Erdtree and the Catacombs/tree-turning beings giving themselves as live energy sources to Erdtree/Hailigtree all in the general viscinity of Leyendell, that moght be the goal of Marika keeping the various stuff near her to enforce her rule and power 🤔
It's interesting to go back to the base game, and see just how many powerful boss attacks form spirals of energy, like how Malenia's phase 2 attacks can, or Morgot's blood when agitated by his sword.
I think the Hero's Rune definitely lends credence to the theory that grace was used as a means to control. "There were once heroes who walked the battlefields, abundantly blessed by the Erdtree itself, who upon earning their honor simply died." Once they were done being useful they conveniently just died.
Great theory about Placidusax and Metyr! An extra piece to this puzzle however is a theory that I’ve seen that stated that the fingerslayer blade was used by the Nox to wound Metyr, which I think makes a huge amount of sense since it’s implied the fingerslayer blade was used in a very significant event in the past
This would make sense, as envoys of the greater will can’t usually be harmed using normal means and would explain how Metyr is weak enough for us to defeat
If the Nox used the finger slayer blade to wound Metyr, that would clear up the Ringed Finger item description that states it was “cut from an ancestor of the finger creeper” in an “ancient act of blasphemy” So cool to see how the devs set up so many interesting clues that wouldn’t pay off for literal years
@@yok9990 Hadn't even remembered that item description, I love how From weaves all of these seemingly unrelated strands of lore into an incredibly detailed picture
@@ScumMageInfa 90s manga and the three animated movies are a good way to watch it. Do not, I repeat, do not watch the more recent animated series. Music and voice acting are great but animation is utter trash. Manga is better animated than that show.
The Crucibles extend to other Fromsoft games as well. In Bloodborne, the School of Mensis uses an arcane ritual (full of sacrifiecd bodies) to beckon the Moon and pull a Great One out of a microcosm. They call it "creating a child" but it's a combination of a Great One's soul and all of the sacrifices used to beckon the astral entity near to earth that make up its body. Successful melding looks like an amygdala and failure like a The One Reborn, Goderick or even Rykard. In Bloodborne, the form of the sky is water and so its astral entities (the Great Ones/Old Ones/etc) are mostly adapted to move through liquid. It's also imaginary, meaning you can reach it in your sleep or other non-waking or elevated states of consciousness, including death...making Godwyn's half-goldfish form and echo of his half-death. The astral entities, be they stars or moons, are incredibly attracted by acts of mass death and can be pulled into our world through sacrifice to take physical form. A star can fall to earth, and some far away stars are actually moons. In Ranni's ending, the very, very close moon that she has developed an affinity with opens a portal, a microcosm, to elsewhere for Ranni's spirit to step through, to ascend. Check out Ymir's headpiece and the microcosm it contains: > The hat of Count Ymir, High Priest. The circular design at the top represents **the Greater Will and its lightless abyss**, imparting increased intelligence and arcane to the wearer. Though Count Ymir instructed Rellana in the sorcerous arts, he abandoned his allegiance to the moon. "It was merely the closest of the celestial bodies. Nothing more."
There's always a rumor of a remaster and/or a multi-platform support around the corner, so you may get your chance. The Last Protagonist has some lore videos that clarify the English translations with their Japanese and the story becomes clearer. Add in what we know from Elden Ring and especially the DLC and I think anyone playing Bloodborne with a good knowledge of Elden Ring lore will make connections pretty quickly. Especially if they fix the localization translations, which can be misleading.
It’s similar to real life practices, not necessarily just mass sacrifice but massing a certain kind of focus into one place to acquire Insight or Attention.
Seems ranni figured out something about the moons that not even ymir did. It must be something unique about the dark moon you see from her area above the albanuric village
One of the best Elden Ring lore videos I've seen. Great work! I particularly liked your thoughts on Metyr and Placidusax. I think they were the beginning of intelligent beasts. We see Placidusax having 5 fingers which we know is a sign of intelligence from cinquedea. This eventually lead to the earliest “human” civilization as seen by the shield of the sun realm. The Sun Realm is probably FA when beasts began to walk upright with 5 fingers and wield weapons. This trend continues on to Hoarah Loux and people of his clan who are beastlike and ferocious. Banished knights are the end result of this line. Refined knights who still use powers of the storm (primitive, animal, crucible) and are found primarily in Stormveil and FA.
12:37 Here you say to "minimize" the technology. Minimizing something means to limit its use. The correct terminology is 'miniaturize.' This means to make something smaller and more convenient.
@@ScumMageInfa true, from how it stands now it would seem (at least to me), Metyr came to the Lands between; Metyr established contact with the ancient Dragons, Placidusax became her consort; Ancient Dragons ruled for a time; Metyr began spawning the Finger Creepers and Two Fingers; The Nox awaiting their Lord of Night assailed Metyr and damaged her, creating the Fingerslayer Blade from her flesh, angering the Greater Will; Astel came and leveled the Nameless Eternal City; The Fate of the Nox was lost due to the absence of their dark moon - no more Fingerslaying from them; Metyr lost contact to the Greater will and fled; The Three Fingers possibly spawning around this time from the damaged Metyr as a result of the lost contact to the Greater Will and found a new Medium in the Flame of Frenzy out of dispair or disillusion; Placidusax gets attacked by an opportunistic Bayle (possibly due to the fleeing of Metyr calling his authority into question); Placidusax calls Dragon Communion into Existence and moves with his flock to a space beyond time, trying to contact the greater Will himself; Metyr tries to re-establish contact and her fingers meanwhile follow the old model and instruct all civilizations down the line to follow in her and Placidusax Footsteps: The Model of a Godhead figure and their Elden Lord
It's possible that the finger slayer blade is actually made from some other ancient and forgotten god. Note it looks like the sword of the Elden beast, made from marikas body. Perhaps placidusax's god that 'abandonded' him?
21:18 You see those tubes in the mother of fingers chamber… aren’t those the bottom part of the Erdtree stems in the final boss chamber with the Elden Beast? Is that how the fingers communicate using the Erdtree somehow? What goldmask was observing?
I needed to check if this was the loretuber that made the "many crucibles of Elden Ring" video. I was happy to relearn that it was. Brilliant stuff as alway.
There is One Other crucible you missed; Even if that is especulation on my part, I do assume it is a crucible: Giant and Golen's Forging Is a Crucible; Due to how many "stars" fall into the Lands Between, there's a lot of "mineral Life" The Ancient Dragons and the Alabaster/Onys Lord are the Examples of this. The Giants (gods know how or why) Melt Rock to make weapons and Started seeing Souls into the Melted Iron Giving them Souls (Smithscript weapons) It's Oddly Fitting that The Flame of A Crucible can be used to properly Kill Another Crucible Giant's Flame of Ruin Kill the Erdtree Mesmer's and Melina's Flame Killing the Hornsent and The "Demigods" The Flame of Frenzy Killing Everything Ghost Flame Killing Death I have some thoughts on that, I shuold make a video e_e
Yeppers, Fire melts everything down- Forge = Giant melting pot of life :P Smithing used to be a divine act as per smithing talisman etc so I totally agree. Yes, you should make a video!
Personally I also think that's it's made fairly clear that the anger that the Ancient Dragons have for their younger cousins is precisely because of Bayle's betrayal. He dared to challenge their eternal order. He reminds me a lot of Rykard, not least because of his connection to the drakes and magma wyrms, who all have quite serpentine features. I see in this conflict a repeat of "Erdtree vs Snake" more than I see "horned vs non-horned". Here's the thing; I don't think Bayle's an Omen. He has horns, yes, but so do Ancient Dragons. They have claws, horns, scales and wings. The thing that characterises Omen as different to other Crucible-touched beings is that their horns grow extremely chaotically, often leading to physical ailment, disability, and quite often, death in infancy (even if "untreated"). It is a cancerous version of the blessing of the Crucible. And most importantly; Omen are mediums for wrathful spirits. Their horns are as antennas or aerials for wraiths and angry spirits. They are tortured and cursed by those very spirits; and I think THAT IS the curse that the Hornsent (maybe just the Grandam) put on Marika and her offspring. The evil, wrathful, vengeful spirits of the Hornsent and other worshippers of the crucible, channelled into the population of the Erdtree. The Omenborn ONLY exist in the direct vicinity of Leyndell (and in that one catacomb in Liurnia which.. yeah idk what's up with that) and Stormveil Castle, which is strongly associated with Leyndell, and as such, I think that they exist as a punishment of the Erdtree society specifically. The fact that Royal-born Omen were common enough that an entire tradition around trapping them in the sewers sprung up around them is proof to me that the Omen are strictly related to Marika and her culture.
Since i've seen the first reel of Bayle, I went and see every dragon in Elden ring and noticed he was the only one with curled horns, just like the Omens...and would make sense as he is the one able to challenge the Elden lord Placidusax, who is at that point the representation of the Greater Will, and take the fight to a stalemate. Nice to see an analysis on this possibility, that he is an Omen, as nobody seemed to even notice the thing, nobody theorizing about it. All about CURSE YOU BAYLE!
I would say that the Tarnished themself is a crucible. You kill so many and take their power. Additionally, the free will they have as a player character is somewhat reflective of a crucible's chaotic nature.
This was so refreshing, Infa. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I did think of one further crucible, that Kate the Kind pointed out in a stream. The forge of the Giants. A literal Crucible. In context of the video I could be wrong :)
I agree that the Scarlet Rot is a form of the crucible and I think another example of the “vitality” of the crucible is actually just the foliage of the Rauh ruins itself, the green plant life is more abundant in Rauh than pretty much anywhere else in game. The location of the sealed outer god is also relatively close to the only main game areas with explicitly green foliage, which is Liurnia and Limgrave, standing strong at the surface, unaware of the crucible beast lurking below. Just as rotting flesh and decomposition serves in real life, the act of letting something fester and turn into another stage can lead to greater benefits for life around said rotting thing, dead bodies serve as breeding grounds for insects which serve as the foundation of so much of the ecosystem. Even in our own world, fertilizer has an impact on the soil health and the color of the grass or plants it produces. Despite this imagery of a eco friendly outer god, I still remain steadfast in the belief that the outcome of “life” as we know it in ER is a slow and eventual return to the greater will, which seems to have truly abandoned life itself and now seeks the total assimilation of matter back into the singularity. The greater will is a semi sentient black hole, desiring two paths, progression or regression. It’s currently on the path of regression, and all life is poised to end one day, most likely until a possible inevitable rebirth. A return to progression.
Great vid, your explanation for Rykard's motives make the most sense out of all the theories I've heard. Makes me wonder if the ancestral followers had actually succeeded in creating their own crucible, considering some of them and their animals have a unique glow to them
The thought of shamen Marika being melded with others in the pot just flashbanged me with the realization of how her and Radagon are one being, they were melded perfectly and then ascended to godhood
when you resembled crucible as a nuclear weapon and its owners trying their best to block this technology from others and showed raya lucaria i instantly had thoughts of graven masses and how they blended together to build an weapon of MASS destruction. good video btw 👍
i literally thought of this idea yesterday after seeing BonfireVN's video. all the fire, horns, his descendants having feathers and the large prominent horn. glad to see these videos explaining Bayle
The pillars around Placidusax seem to have places to impale bodies. It seems the sacrifice of life is necessary to communicate with the greater will, which is crazy. Also the connection to fingers meaning intelligence is really smart.
Aaayy! I'm still making a script but you're on the right track! As soon as you start being able to identify the polarity you can start picking out times by comparing everyone's overlaps
I’ve long held this theory that the drakes are the draconic equivalent of Omen, and this DLC really solidified that theory. For one, they seem to be a wild, crucible-like evolution of dragons, with patchy scales, feathers, and horns. They also seem to have an uncanny ability to assimilate the elements of their environment. There’s also their relation to the arcane, the same stat that boosts Mohg’s blood incantations. I think the greatest evidence of this is with the Dragon Communion Seal. While it being formless doesn’t necessarily equate them with the Formless Mother, as there are formless Erdtree/Golden Order Seals, I think the fact that it’s also optimal for casting bloodboon and frenzy spells to be quite curious. There’s also the fact that its design, rather puzzlingly, shares a STRIKING resemblance with Morgott’s tail. This crucible connection is even further solidified by the ghost at the shack where we find the Talisman of the Dread. It’s basically invoking Bayle’s wrath on Messmer and the Erdtree faithful, which is perhaps now the mission of the drakes in the current time
Good video and speculation. Thank goodness you kept putting up the specific visuals for the topic being discussed, same for the B-roll footage. We finally have Maati Movie with the way your voice and oration.
Watching with no audio “just subtitles”, so I literally can’t hear the vatti similarities, but besides that I think your research is spot on. And I can value that, voice, or no voice, keep doing you, contents great and I think your hitting it spot In my opinion. Cheers!
I actually like this theory and it even has relevance in Miyazaki’s other works. In Bloodborne, the Mensis ritual is basically a Crucible, as you describe it. A powerful magic powered by mass death.
Another great video! I've have had a thought pickling in my brain for a bit that might be valuable here. I'm pretty certain that the divine horns are a direct reference to the old mistranslation of the story of Moses. In the mistranslation it was said that Moses had holy horns emitting from his head after speaking to God on Mt Sinai. The line was supposed to say that he had holy rays of light but hundreds of years passed where the mistranslation's interpretation reined. So you would often see statues of Moses depicted with horns. There was a time too where Jewish people were feared of being able to grow horns, supposedly linking them to the devil. Obviously that was all grossly wrong but the story of those times seem to match the horncent in concept and in their narrative of persecution. I have also seen many links to Sumerian, Babylonian and ancient Egyptian myths littered all throughout the game. For instance Egyptian culture was the first to describe a tree of life and a world serpent of darkness. Their creator god, Aten, was also a strangely similar to the greater will. Aten was usually depicted as a solar disk with many rays of light, terminating with hands. The hands are often depicted bestowing an ankh, the Egyptian symbol of life.
Osiris might also explain some of the coffin oddness, as well as the two finger imagery because mummies were often buried with an amulet of Osiris's two fingers.
This is my take exactly. It lines up too well with a lot of bronze age early iron age themes, and the way european cultures feared and misunderstood ancient Jewish life and beliefs. Also reminds me of the struggle in ancient Judea to establish Yahweh as the chief deity. Before that the Canaanite cultures believed in many different gods and systems(kinda like the crucible), but through shrewd political moves and tactful military operations king David cemented the idea that Yahweh was the one true god. There's definitely an undercurrent of those themes.
@@flavorwest8769 Sigmund Freud wrote a book about the Egyptian pharaoh Akenaten being the first monotheist but scholars all pretty much disagree with him. However the story of Akenaten seems to be strangely similar to Marika's.
the actual fright i got thinking i’d found vaati’s second channel 😂 i think your lore coverage was fucking fantastic man. i’m now a subscriber and i’ll be going on a little binge
Castle Mourne has a mountain of bodies in the courtyard after the first elevator that could also be a crucible. There are demi-humans all about, who may have been human but through truly monstrous acts of inhumanity spontaneously evolved aspects of the crucible, becoming demi-human.
I have considered this before.... I just couldn't determine any 'power' created from this which was used. The misbegotten are most certainly children of the crucible though- Having all the aspects they do.
Yeah they weren’t Demi humans, they’re misbegotten, similar but a different group. That pile of bodies was just the result of their revolt from slavery at the castle
An idea I’ve had about why life seems to keep getting smaller (giant skeletons -> fire giants -> trolls -> humans/soldiers -> foot soldiers -> vulgar militia) is that perhaps the erdtree keeps some of the spirit of the lives it absorbs instead of rebirthing them in full. It uses this energy to power itself while ensuring that each subsequent generation of being is smaller since there is less spirit to go ariund
When I seen Bayle I automatically thought he was an ancient dragon with the omen curse. I haven’t watched the video yet so just my thoughts atm lol. But didn’t quite add up because he seemed like a Drake with the omen curse but shit idek at this point lol.
YES! So happy to find someone else who believes this (That Bayle is crucible-touched, that is. The rest of you video is very interesting, happy I clicked
I think the next big lore creator is gonna be someone offering a less serious more plain version of the lore. I love this in depth stuff but like a short form quest explanation with lore inbetween would be cool
I reckon the Omen's horns are more chaotic than they'd be naturally is a result of the Crucible being suppressed which in turn causes it to manifest more violently kind of like the Dark Soul in Dark Souls series.
I've always had a theory that the crucible changes with every new order or age to represent or mimic the meaning of the order/age, especially if the erdtree grew from the crucible just shows that the crucible changed itself when Marica was bringing about the golden order.
13:22 Romina is most likely a 'natural' saint and not an artificial one, which implies that the methods used by the hornsent were more cruel than what it may seem on the surface.
All Dragons, even the ancient ones, being some sort of other lifeforms that "evolved" thanks to the crucible's eldritch stuff is something very intriguing. And hell, there are lots of hints towards things turning into dragons in the game, even the Runebears have dragon eyes.
Great video. I'd personally pushback on the idea that the talisman of all description regarding the "giants" not reffering to the fire giants as in my analysis they too are imbued with the crucible qualities and within the timeline seems to me like primordial beings representing fire. They seem to be representing the mother of all crucible in the evolutionary timeline. Similar to muspelheim in Norse Myth. Also the song of ice and fire referincing GRRM is a fairly thematic origin story to use for the lands between. Fire Giants are key in this primordial duality in my eyes. In general this was a bold and brave analysis into the crucible. Lots of interesting insights. I've enjoyed it but expect a copyright strike from Vaati for using his voice ;)
@Ontos99 Thankyou ♡ I would push back further and say if the colossal giants are encrusted in the very earth and therefore imo the original crucible where all life originates from- they MUST be the mother of all crucibles. As for vaati- NUH UH!! You'll see soon, but I have a checkmate up my sleeve 😂😈
Great video. The idea of radioactivity is a great nuance for the lore. To add a little to your theory, the cinquedea has the same fingers as Metyr herself. Furthermore, it's strongly suggested that 'intelligence' comes from the cosmos. One thing to note, is that the Hornsent went from recognising feathers as divine to then becoming besotted with horns, never recognising the serpentine tails in their culture. Is it because Marika once represented this nature of the crucible prior to the establishment of the Golden Order? And what of the feathers/bird aspect of the crucible? Ps is this why the Blasphemous Blade is still the best weapon in the game...we're wielding a mini Crucible in our hands...mad
Beautiful points. I'll be re-looking at cinquedea that is for sure. Yeah since it is imbued with death that would be like something being imbued with rot (And actually hitting properly)
@@ScumMageInfa Thanks bro, I appreciate it. I went back in my inventory to take a look at the Cinquedea and realised I didn't even have it haha...so went to go pick it up...looks like a little beastman ritual sacrifice...possibly a mini crucible of pillars using dragon scales? And not too far is the dragoncrest shield talisman. The symbol on the ground where the ritual is bugs me though. The same symbol is all along the path from Raya Lucaria to Altus Plateau, where we see statues of a man on a growing tree...then I looked closer...dead bodies moulded into the tree...so another crucible...(on the statue there's a symbol of the same erdtree depicted in farum azula) Then suddenly stops when the roads architecture gets more grand. Almost like Marika built over it. Why from Raya Lucaria? Another few symbols at the Grand LIft of Rold. I wonder if that symbol is anywhere else? Too many rabbit holes haha
other crucibles could be grafting, the sorcerer mass head ball things, also in the frenzy flame ending there is a fiery great tree, the frenzied flame of which wishes to blend all life together, so this is likely a large super crucible of the frenzied flame
His rebellion against Placidusax makes more sense from a GW vs Crucible POV if we are to believe the 3 fingers on the whole "one great" thing having ties to the crucible.
Bayle looks way closer to the underground dragon warriors we find in one of the eternal cities - not sure which one, than any ancient dragon. Not sure if you already covered it because i just started watching now, apologies in advance if you did! As always I get pretty excited when you upload because I think you have some really unique analysis amongst the other lore creators. Thanks!
I did not! Only that they failed to mimic the scales of the ancient lords, like bayle was bereft of... Damn good point! :) Thanks for the generous compliment
@@ScumMageInfa not sure if you made this connection but it said that the dragon warriors lightning turned cold due to never knowing "true sky" whereas bales is legit fire lightning.
@@ScumMageInfa went back and reread the description and realized I'm off a little bit there doesn't necessarily add to them being similar in nature though there probably some connection to be had between the dragonkin's ice lightning and bales flame lightning
@@ScumMageInfa I'll for sure be keeping an eye out for it then thanks for letting me know lol. Was ready to dismiss any connection before you had mentioned the lack of scale similar, there's also the fact the wryms were the last form of dragon communion prior to the new dragon forms which at a glance seem unconnected to the dragonkin as well but at the same time can't possibly be completely well anyhow after that brain storm the only real connection I could come up with was the oddity between flame lightning - ice lightening. I've put a lot of hours into the game and I'm familiar with Miyazaki's story stylings so imma look into myself more but I'm fairly sure they're things left unknown simply to allow for them to make more games from it and we aren't working with the full picture which was a benefit we had back in dark souls 3.
On the matter of fly people... I think it's telling that the fly sickness is related to stagnation, bodies not being cared for properly and left to rot that causes the sickness. The anatomy of the fly people is also very similar to the anatomy of Astel, naturalborn of the void. Radahn did hold the stars back for some untold time, could his halting of the stars cause the denizens of the cosmos to mutate as well? The fallingstar beasts might actually be what they are supposed to look like without stagnation.
So it's basically the Warrior Jars on a much larger scale. I always thought the reason the jars are around the minor erdtree is to show you what the erdtree is. It's a jar, and so too it's primordial form.
I hope the comments dont discourage you from doing these types of videos again. It might be frustrating to be constantly compared to vaati (or saying this is an ai voice of vaati lmao) but i think its easy to listen to. You and vaati's voices are so clear so its really easy to just play it in the bg.
I believe it's a bit early to say that marika hated the hornsent because of what they did to her people. Marika may even helped the hornsent, as she was in a very high position in hornsent society to do her betrayal. After all she begins her crucade right AFTER veiling the land and ascending to godhood
You have to use what you have got. I reckon when she got her position of power she always intended to obliterate them. The crusade is tier 9 evidence of her hatred.
@@ScumMageInfa The Crusade isn't evidence tbh. We never hear marikas side on this. Marika used the crusade to get rid of messmer, seal the divinity gate and get rid of crucible whorship. After all for some reason the erdtree even after shrouding her sin is in opposition to everybody. Marika destroyed pretty much any faith that was outside her order even the unnamed faith that becomes rot gets obliterated. Along with the gloam-eyed queen and the giant god. So you can say that crusade worked well for her goals, so well that it's questionable that she only did this for her people.
@@ScumMageInfa yes it isn't. And yes we know the crucible was shunned but it never says cause "marika felt like it" And there even have been a lot of real people that we know of that sold out their Race\Religion\Culture But let's leave it at that, you are thinking too much with your emotions and nothing will come out of this.
Blackflame Crucible. Perhaps a different Crucible of Death, or at least one severed from life continuing in death? The Godskins have serpentine aspects, serve the Gloam Eyed Queen, and derive all of their power from a sword that is shaped like a spiral.
The theory of the crucibles being some kind of nuclear energy that you can trigger by massive murders is interesting, although Rykard didn't commit mass murder to get his crucible, he let the serpent eat him along the great rune to lather meld completely with the serpent and slowly add each new champion of the mannor to his body by devouring them, something that along the Graft of Goddrick I associate with the ability of Shaman's flesh to meld harmoniously with others. If Marika was a shaman and the demigods are her descendants I think they all had that ability and just nobody but marika and probably messmer's elite knew about it, and something that Marika just didn't want to be re discovered, wich would make both Rykard's and Goddrick's practices be viewed as Blasphemous.
We saw Romina in a human form in the story trailer, a scene of her during the crusades of Messmer. If it was a version of crucible “technology” that changed her, it would have had to taken place after the crusades - or possibly the crusades themselves forming a makeshift crucible from the mass death of the Hornsent.
Oh! Don't forget that the base game has a SPIRAL glintstone sorcery, lending further credence to the idea of spirals and crucibles being a part of the fundamental cosmos!
![Sentient Horcrux Infusion Transfer (Marika's Great Escape) [Pre-DLC]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cF_zZULXdaI/mqdefault.jpg)
NOTES: Other possible Crucibles / Crucible tech as per your brilliant comments:
- Graven Mass (Commenter: nar1768)
- Castle Mourne and the Misbegotten (Commenter: faman00)
PS.
Fighting a losing battle with a sore throat while recording this, hence sounding like a finger crone when I was revising my mispronunciation of PLASID-YEWW-SAX (Gave up, wrote in correction lmao). I also have changed my popfilter and changed the context (Uncomfortable, but quiet[er]) and the program I use to record, but those Rainbow lorries are a joke.
I hope things are audible for you all, I am less afraid of mutilating your ears with Ss Ps Ts etc, so we can be a little louder :D
Let me know if you love it, or hate it, turn it up, turn it down- ETC.
Thanks for watching!! Please butcher each other in the comments in a glorious Lore Frenzy
We can always make the video quieter, it's making it louder that's tricky! Also, sounds good, and also the actual real key to a good audio experience is consistent volume bands. If it's loud, make the whole thing loud, if it's quiet make the whole thing quiet. The absolute worst thing is to have random volume spikes, or alternating periods of higher and lower sound so people are adjusting multiple times per view. If it's generally consistent, that's how you get the people who will listen while they sleep. That's %watch time, baybee
what is that naruto song remix youre using. its chill as heck
You ended up sounding like Vaati.
@@KingBurgers Thats the hardest part- Those darn spikes!
@@ZeroOmega-vg8nq Itachi's theme- Reverbed :)
Man sounds like Vaati Vidya's brother or something
😅 like Mohg and Morgott
I genuinely thought it was Vatti video for a minute
Little Vaati
Wait. Is this not Vaati? I just assumed it's a second channel. Lol. 😅
his other self 😮
the crucible is evolution without direction.
not just evolution of the body, but of the spirit as well, which takes inspiration from natural phenomena if it has no outside direction.
this means that it also needs to decompose dead spirits (not only flesh) in order to evolve (directed or not) - so misporportion of dead bodies\spirits might twist it as well.
the Greater Will wants to direct the crucible into something specific. The Rot wants to devolve it (so it can evolve again into something else). The Frenzied Flame wants to burn it entirely. Death Blight is allowing the spirits to evolve, but the flesh to stagnate.
once a person has the potential to affect a crucible - the various outer gods try to influence that person, in order to manifest their will - as they are only capable of affecting entities with free will, which the crucible does not have. it's just evolving ooze.
the crucible is a mindless force. a resource for the outer gods to fight over and shape by influencing the minds of people who can access it.
I love this comment
While certainly accurate, I think its origins are just as important, its main patron seems to be the formless mother but how did she get introduced to the larger world? the blood fiends supposedly had their villages burned and found her in the blood of the aftermath, it does not state who’s blood, I believe the reason the giants once had horns, is because they were the original patrons of the first crucible, before the gate of divinity was bond to the helix of the elden ring, there was the forge of ruin, and its star lit ashes that fed the birth of new life
The gate of divinity also shows the major difference between direct sacrifice and outer influence, the fire giants and dragons simply worshiped the old spiral of life and gold was returned to the elden ring as ashes, the gate only gains influence through the sacrifice of gold directly to the formless mother, I believe the rune of death is “stained” red not naturally red, touched by the growing influence of the “formless mother” which sounds like a crucible full of blood or primordial matter, like the mother of vinegar literally being the thing that births vinegar.
Personally I have concluded that elden ring is a story of red and blue, fire and stars, blood and gold, sacrifice and reverence, the crucible and the elden ring, and why the age we bring about is always the correct one, by unsealing death at the original force still connected to it we complete the world as it were, it was so close to perfect order but marika was petty and banished those she scorned, damning her order to always have enemies far and wide.
bingo
The idea of drakes and Bayle being ancient dragons touched by the crucible is incredibly interesting and honestly is the best answer I can think of
He isnt an ancient Dragon
@@RedEyedDRAG00N Well Bayle in particular is different from the other 2 cuz he has lightning and the gravel stone scales of ancient dragons, and immortality, but he has 2 limbs of drakes
@@RedEyedDRAG00N I'm pretty sure he is, even though it isn't included in his title. He's said to have betrayed Placidusax and the other ancient dragons, and we fight other ancient dragons who seem to serve under him. At the very least, he's a dragon and he's very, very old.
@@brewdaly1873 He said to be the "The oldest, vilest dragon of them all." by Florissax.
@@RedEyedDRAG00Ndepends on what you’re calling an ancient dragon.
Bayle was an ancient dragon made to displace placiduesex to eat the parasitic erdtree.
But he was too effective and turned all of dragon kind against him. In turn fathering all drakes
If a mass amount of blood needed to spilt for the portal to the dlc to work, there’s a chance it simply took two years of farming albinaurics to get the gears turning.
That's dark :'D
It's what the Albins would've wanted :D
From the time we rested in front of stormveil and received torrent we were under kindly miquella’s spell we were given a subconscious thirst for albinaurics in mohg’s palace specifically just so we could get to the dlc confirmed???
with the DLC those poor sad boys can finally be happy again, there's bigger fish to fry now!
@elizabethandeldinkamberovi1929 still the best farming spot AFAIK 😂
I still go back there in if 50k-60k short of a level up lol
It really makes sense with the drakes having feathers, scales and horns, Bayle being an omen would just be further evidence i think strongly supports this
You can also see Greyoll (The Mother of Modern Dragons) full of feathers, horns, and scales. Which is really awesome.
I know I’m not the only one who noticed pre dlc, the issue with souls like lore is that people will see something “logically” implied and say “well there’s no hard evidence”, like the main line in the elden ring that pierces marikas rune of eternity and malikaths rune of the end, is likely the twin helix rune of life
Because you know, they are not the runes of life or death but instead “eternal” life and “destined” death
@@samuelbrown7466 true it's speculatuon but it's a theory with some good bones
@@heatheroutre agreed, but I was namely just speaking on the matter of things like marika being radagon is considered by some as just speculation because the game never directly shows the character admitting it, such behavior stifles the theoretical process of lore hunting
The crucibles being nuclear reactors, and thus giving unnatural side effects; that is SO GOOD!! Everyone planning to make a crucible video can peace out now because this is now the standard. Going in my filing cabinet to reference from now on 💛
Hahahaha! BLESS you Mama
Your the person who's video suggested Marika was a pot person! I literally just commented about it but wasn't her who the OP was.
How do you factor in Marika meeting Myter, mother of fingers, into times lines? Im struggling Marika, radagon, Fingers connection in the DLC. The GreatJar item confirms the death into life possibility (pot person). But doesnt really explain what the seduction and betrayal is either... too many questions.
Couple thinks I think are worth noting: One, I'm fairly certain that Romina would be more considered as the result of an unintentional crucible, forged by Messmer's crusade rather than Hornsent experimentation. It's a similar story as the bloodfiends, in which their respective annihilated villages resulted in an outer god being drawn to them. Romina, a survivor of the church after its burning to the ground, bears witness to the god of rot attracted to such a sacrifice, and becomes its servant. The bloodfiends, whose villages were reduced to ash, in preparing to mourn and honor their dead, bear witness to the Formless Mother, attracted by the loss of life, and begin to worship her, descending into the bloodfiends we see now. Both were accidental, undirected crucibles brought about by the war, prompting potential grand events.
The bloodfiends were created by looking upon a twisted deity... Which given the outer god talisman I am lead to believe is the giant tutelary deity we see in mesmers specimen area.
Yeah. The Formless Mother, manifesting in the bodies piled up in Messmer's fiery crucible of a war. The talisman's description pretty heavily implies it with mentions of the fires.
"The clan, who lost everything in the great fires, peered upon the corpse of their ancestor, normally an act of sanctity, and saw in its shadow a twisted deity.
The clan had suffered such torment that the horrible thing was taken as an object of worship."
Bloodfiends are just one of several byproducts of this crucible, with the destruction of their villages and slaughter of their people, a tremendous loss of life, enticing the Formless Mother to manifest and give them new power.
I think it's worth mentioning I don't think the corpse is something in the specimen warehouse. It's likely referring to the Formless Mother appearing during funerary rites.
@@KoopaKrump When you look at the talisman it looks like a tutelary deity that is on the other side of the tree worship sanctum in mesmers castle before the scadutree :P
I'll be making a short on it soon ngl
I'm a fan of two things being right at the same time and I think this might be the case here
The Crucible of Goderick. When we first see Goderick, he has killed and grafted many lives onto his body already. He has a dragon next to him, which he quickly grafts onto himself when we start to overcome him. And outside the castle is Rodericka, a shaman, who is sensitive spirits including rancorous spirits, who in the best of cases would be able to bind the rancouous spirits grafted onto his body into a harmonious whole. If Goderick's crucible were successful, he would ascend to a dragon form.
OH damn the crucible of Stormveil! That's a fun idea.
Don’t forget big boy godefroy
@@itzjustboris7395 Big deth boi, putrescence crucible
Def a "hey this seemed to work for the other Demigods, lemme try this" vibe in this context
@@ScumMageInfaif the 3 fingers Crucible, Putrescent Godwin Crucible in Deeproot, the city of the Erdtree and the Catacombs/tree-turning beings giving themselves as live energy sources to Erdtree/Hailigtree all in the general viscinity of Leyendell, that moght be the goal of Marika keeping the various stuff near her to enforce her rule and power 🤔
It's interesting to go back to the base game, and see just how many powerful boss attacks form spirals of energy, like how Malenia's phase 2 attacks can, or Morgot's blood when agitated by his sword.
Oh damn nice point
Morgott phase 2 transition looks similar to the Scadutree avatars murky gold incantations.
I think the Hero's Rune definitely lends credence to the theory that grace was used as a means to control.
"There were once heroes who walked the battlefields, abundantly blessed by the Erdtree itself, who upon earning their honor simply died."
Once they were done being useful they conveniently just died.
They dried up :'D
Brilliant description catch btw
Great theory about Placidusax and Metyr! An extra piece to this puzzle however is a theory that I’ve seen that stated that the fingerslayer blade was used by the Nox to wound Metyr, which I think makes a huge amount of sense since it’s implied the fingerslayer blade was used in a very significant event in the past
This would make sense, as envoys of the greater will can’t usually be harmed using normal means and would explain how Metyr is weak enough for us to defeat
If the Nox used the finger slayer blade to wound Metyr, that would clear up the Ringed Finger item description that states it was “cut from an ancestor of the finger creeper” in an “ancient act of blasphemy”
So cool to see how the devs set up so many interesting clues that wouldn’t pay off for literal years
@@yok9990 Hadn't even remembered that item description, I love how From weaves all of these seemingly unrelated strands of lore into an incredibly detailed picture
This whole crucible idea you have reminds me a lot of beserk and the behelits that are activated from mass death and sacrifice
Not to mention the behelits link parts of the psyichal and astral worlds. First idea that came to mind
I NEED to watch beserk...
Elden ring has taken a lot of inspiration from Berserk, and the series is amazing, I do recommend it @@ScumMageInfa
@@ScumMageInfa 90s manga and the three animated movies are a good way to watch it. Do not, I repeat, do not watch the more recent animated series. Music and voice acting are great but animation is utter trash. Manga is better animated than that show.
@@chillax319 That's devastating to hear lmao
The Crucibles extend to other Fromsoft games as well. In Bloodborne, the School of Mensis uses an arcane ritual (full of sacrifiecd bodies) to beckon the Moon and pull a Great One out of a microcosm. They call it "creating a child" but it's a combination of a Great One's soul and all of the sacrifices used to beckon the astral entity near to earth that make up its body. Successful melding looks like an amygdala and failure like a The One Reborn, Goderick or even Rykard.
In Bloodborne, the form of the sky is water and so its astral entities (the Great Ones/Old Ones/etc) are mostly adapted to move through liquid. It's also imaginary, meaning you can reach it in your sleep or other non-waking or elevated states of consciousness, including death...making Godwyn's half-goldfish form and echo of his half-death. The astral entities, be they stars or moons, are incredibly attracted by acts of mass death and can be pulled into our world through sacrifice to take physical form. A star can fall to earth, and some far away stars are actually moons. In Ranni's ending, the very, very close moon that she has developed an affinity with opens a portal, a microcosm, to elsewhere for Ranni's spirit to step through, to ascend.
Check out Ymir's headpiece and the microcosm it contains:
> The hat of Count Ymir, High Priest. The circular design at the top represents **the Greater Will and its lightless abyss**, imparting increased intelligence and arcane to the wearer. Though Count Ymir instructed Rellana in the sorcerous arts, he abandoned his allegiance to the moon. "It was merely the closest of the celestial bodies. Nothing more."
FFS I need to play bloodborne
There's always a rumor of a remaster and/or a multi-platform support around the corner, so you may get your chance. The Last Protagonist has some lore videos that clarify the English translations with their Japanese and the story becomes clearer. Add in what we know from Elden Ring and especially the DLC and I think anyone playing Bloodborne with a good knowledge of Elden Ring lore will make connections pretty quickly. Especially if they fix the localization translations, which can be misleading.
It’s similar to real life practices, not necessarily just mass sacrifice but massing a certain kind of focus into one place to acquire Insight or Attention.
Seems ranni figured out something about the moons that not even ymir did. It must be something unique about the dark moon you see from her area above the albanuric village
One of the best Elden Ring lore videos I've seen. Great work!
I particularly liked your thoughts on Metyr and Placidusax. I think they were the beginning of intelligent beasts. We see Placidusax having 5 fingers which we know is a sign of intelligence from cinquedea. This eventually lead to the earliest “human” civilization as seen by the shield of the sun realm. The Sun Realm is probably FA when beasts began to walk upright with 5 fingers and wield weapons. This trend continues on to Hoarah Loux and people of his clan who are beastlike and ferocious. Banished knights are the end result of this line. Refined knights who still use powers of the storm (primitive, animal, crucible) and are found primarily in Stormveil and FA.
Stellas take :D
12:37 Here you say to "minimize" the technology. Minimizing something means to limit its use. The correct terminology is 'miniaturize.' This means to make something smaller and more convenient.
Are you shocked? I pronounced Plassy's name wrong, you cant HOLD ME TO THESE TYPES OF STANDARDS *weeps uncontrollably*
I think Metyrs Injury comes from the Nox who created the Fingerslayer Blade from the flesh they took of her
Isn't it also confirmed the ringed finger weapon is a finger from metyr since the description mentions it's from a ancestor of finger creepers
@@jamiehughes5573 PARDON?? I'll have to have a squiz at that one.
Absolutely came to mind too- I'll be doing a video on the Eternal cities again soon, and I reckon that may come into it.
SO HARD to place timelines.
@@ScumMageInfa true, from how it stands now it would seem (at least to me), Metyr came to the Lands between; Metyr established contact with the ancient Dragons, Placidusax became her consort; Ancient Dragons ruled for a time; Metyr began spawning the Finger Creepers and Two Fingers; The Nox awaiting their Lord of Night assailed Metyr and damaged her, creating the Fingerslayer Blade from her flesh, angering the Greater Will; Astel came and leveled the Nameless Eternal City; The Fate of the Nox was lost due to the absence of their dark moon - no more Fingerslaying from them; Metyr lost contact to the Greater will and fled; The Three Fingers possibly spawning around this time from the damaged Metyr as a result of the lost contact to the Greater Will and found a new Medium in the Flame of Frenzy out of dispair or disillusion; Placidusax gets attacked by an opportunistic Bayle (possibly due to the fleeing of Metyr calling his authority into question); Placidusax calls Dragon Communion into Existence and moves with his flock to a space beyond time, trying to contact the greater Will himself; Metyr tries to re-establish contact and her fingers meanwhile follow the old model and instruct all civilizations down the line to follow in her and Placidusax Footsteps: The Model of a Godhead figure and their Elden Lord
It's possible that the finger slayer blade is actually made from some other ancient and forgotten god. Note it looks like the sword of the Elden beast, made from marikas body. Perhaps placidusax's god that 'abandonded' him?
Farum Azula and Enir-Ilim may be always in daylight because they are literally inside the boundary of the Sun Realm.
Question is what exactly is the nature of the Sun Realm? 🤔
I like your simple style of narration, getting to your point but not rushing.
Very well spoken friend
It is one hell of a balancing act but I think I am getting there! :P Thankyou!~
man i love this channel
tell me more elden ring words wise man
Oh I absolutely will.
Incredible video my brother, phenomenal observations and eloquently put. Looking forward to the next one!
Thankyou so much!
21:18 You see those tubes in the mother of fingers chamber… aren’t those the bottom part of the Erdtree stems in the final boss chamber with the Elden Beast?
Is that how the fingers communicate using the Erdtree somehow?
What goldmask was observing?
That...... is a brilliant point.
I needed to check if this was the loretuber that made the "many crucibles of Elden Ring" video. I was happy to relearn that it was. Brilliant stuff as alway.
I felt so unsatisfied after the last video, I was compelled to make this one hahaha
I'm so glad you enjoyed it
There is One Other crucible you missed; Even if that is especulation on my part, I do assume it is a crucible:
Giant and Golen's Forging Is a Crucible;
Due to how many "stars" fall into the Lands Between, there's a lot of "mineral Life" The Ancient Dragons and the Alabaster/Onys Lord are the Examples of this.
The Giants (gods know how or why) Melt Rock to make weapons and Started seeing Souls into the Melted Iron Giving them Souls (Smithscript weapons)
It's Oddly Fitting that The Flame of A Crucible can be used to properly Kill Another Crucible
Giant's Flame of Ruin Kill the Erdtree
Mesmer's and Melina's Flame Killing the Hornsent and The "Demigods"
The Flame of Frenzy Killing Everything
Ghost Flame Killing Death
I have some thoughts on that, I shuold make a video e_e
Yeppers, Fire melts everything down- Forge = Giant melting pot of life :P
Smithing used to be a divine act as per smithing talisman etc so I totally agree.
Yes, you should make a video!
Personally I also think that's it's made fairly clear that the anger that the Ancient Dragons have for their younger cousins is precisely because of Bayle's betrayal. He dared to challenge their eternal order. He reminds me a lot of Rykard, not least because of his connection to the drakes and magma wyrms, who all have quite serpentine features. I see in this conflict a repeat of "Erdtree vs Snake" more than I see "horned vs non-horned".
Here's the thing; I don't think Bayle's an Omen. He has horns, yes, but so do Ancient Dragons. They have claws, horns, scales and wings. The thing that characterises Omen as different to other Crucible-touched beings is that their horns grow extremely chaotically, often leading to physical ailment, disability, and quite often, death in infancy (even if "untreated"). It is a cancerous version of the blessing of the Crucible. And most importantly; Omen are mediums for wrathful spirits. Their horns are as antennas or aerials for wraiths and angry spirits. They are tortured and cursed by those very spirits; and I think THAT IS the curse that the Hornsent (maybe just the Grandam) put on Marika and her offspring. The evil, wrathful, vengeful spirits of the Hornsent and other worshippers of the crucible, channelled into the population of the Erdtree. The Omenborn ONLY exist in the direct vicinity of Leyndell (and in that one catacomb in Liurnia which.. yeah idk what's up with that) and Stormveil Castle, which is strongly associated with Leyndell, and as such, I think that they exist as a punishment of the Erdtree society specifically. The fact that Royal-born Omen were common enough that an entire tradition around trapping them in the sewers sprung up around them is proof to me that the Omen are strictly related to Marika and her culture.
Since i've seen the first reel of Bayle, I went and see every dragon in Elden ring and noticed he was the only one with curled horns, just like the Omens...and would make sense as he is the one able to challenge the Elden lord Placidusax, who is at that point the representation of the Greater Will, and take the fight to a stalemate. Nice to see an analysis on this possibility, that he is an Omen, as nobody seemed to even notice the thing, nobody theorizing about it.
All about CURSE YOU BAYLE!
wait, it's all behelits?
really though, i should know by now that if something doesn't make sense, it's a berserk reference
I would say that the Tarnished themself is a crucible. You kill so many and take their power. Additionally, the free will they have as a player character is somewhat reflective of a crucible's chaotic nature.
This was so refreshing, Infa.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
I did think of one further crucible, that Kate the Kind pointed out in a stream. The forge of the Giants. A literal Crucible. In context of the video I could be wrong :)
Totally agree on the forge(s) being crucibles! :D
One of the better start-to-finish theories I’ve heard in a while
Thankyou Thankyou :D
BAYLE, the dragon of true omen inheritance... With a hail of harpoons! 😂
I agree that the Scarlet Rot is a form of the crucible and I think another example of the “vitality” of the crucible is actually just the foliage of the Rauh ruins itself, the green plant life is more abundant in Rauh than pretty much anywhere else in game. The location of the sealed outer god is also relatively close to the only main game areas with explicitly green foliage, which is Liurnia and Limgrave, standing strong at the surface, unaware of the crucible beast lurking below.
Just as rotting flesh and decomposition serves in real life, the act of letting something fester and turn into another stage can lead to greater benefits for life around said rotting thing, dead bodies serve as breeding grounds for insects which serve as the foundation of so much of the ecosystem.
Even in our own world, fertilizer has an impact on the soil health and the color of the grass or plants it produces.
Despite this imagery of a eco friendly outer god, I still remain steadfast in the belief that the outcome of “life” as we know it in ER is a slow and eventual return to the greater will, which seems to have truly abandoned life itself and now seeks the total assimilation of matter back into the singularity.
The greater will is a semi sentient black hole, desiring two paths, progression or regression. It’s currently on the path of regression, and all life is poised to end one day, most likely until a possible inevitable rebirth. A return to progression.
Great vid, your explanation for Rykard's motives make the most sense out of all the theories I've heard. Makes me wonder if the ancestral followers had actually succeeded in creating their own crucible, considering some of them and their animals have a unique glow to them
The thought of shamen Marika being melded with others in the pot just flashbanged me with the realization of how her and Radagon are one being, they were melded perfectly and then ascended to godhood
My thoughts exactly.. I have a theory abuot radagons scarseal and the image on the jar shamans foreheads :P
I think the giants that sprouted the All-Crucible Talisman are the giant Hornsent we see in the storehouse...
when you resembled crucible as a nuclear weapon and its owners trying their best to block this technology from others and showed raya lucaria i instantly had thoughts of graven masses and how they blended together to build an weapon of MASS destruction. good video btw 👍
This is a FASCINATING perspective on the crucible & the nature of existence in Elden Ring, & I LOVE IT
Metyr being Placidusax’s god makes so much sense!
Really doesn't
Vaati’s Mimic Tear gained sentience
@@JBidot tO THE LIST, WITH YOU
Your clarity… extraordinary… Proper seeing is the art which unifies all others.
i literally thought of this idea yesterday after seeing BonfireVN's video.
all the fire, horns, his descendants having feathers and the large prominent horn. glad to see these videos explaining Bayle
The pillars around Placidusax seem to have places to impale bodies. It seems the sacrifice of life is necessary to communicate with the greater will, which is crazy. Also the connection to fingers meaning intelligence is really smart.
If he touched the Crucible of Life I'd say it's more of a Dragon Misbegotten.
M8. This is awesome. Quality content. It’s so cool to see the community interweave ideas.
Aaayy! I'm still making a script but you're on the right track! As soon as you start being able to identify the polarity you can start picking out times by comparing everyone's overlaps
I’ve long held this theory that the drakes are the draconic equivalent of Omen, and this DLC really solidified that theory. For one, they seem to be a wild, crucible-like evolution of dragons, with patchy scales, feathers, and horns. They also seem to have an uncanny ability to assimilate the elements of their environment. There’s also their relation to the arcane, the same stat that boosts Mohg’s blood incantations. I think the greatest evidence of this is with the Dragon Communion Seal. While it being formless doesn’t necessarily equate them with the Formless Mother, as there are formless Erdtree/Golden Order Seals, I think the fact that it’s also optimal for casting bloodboon and frenzy spells to be quite curious. There’s also the fact that its design, rather puzzlingly, shares a STRIKING resemblance with Morgott’s tail.
This crucible connection is even further solidified by the ghost at the shack where we find the Talisman of the Dread. It’s basically invoking Bayle’s wrath on Messmer and the Erdtree faithful, which is perhaps now the mission of the drakes in the current time
More crucibles for you
Radahn and his mindless canabilism roomba cleaning up the corpses.
😂😂😂😂
criminally underrated channel
12/10 without a doubt c:
@Volti-Vagra Oh you ♡ ☺️
I believe the chaos quest also describes the madness of chaos "melting all things" back together into one thing, like a crucible.
More people need to realise that putressence is rot as well
It is VERY similar, in nature and composition- Hence why I keep it up there with crucibles.
Good video and speculation. Thank goodness you kept putting up the specific visuals for the topic being discussed, same for the B-roll footage. We finally have Maati Movie with the way your voice and oration.
I HATE it when lore videos don't show the corresponding evidence wherever possible. it is something I will ALWAYS endeavour to do.
This is literallly the best elden ring video i have ever seen
Watching with no audio “just subtitles”, so I literally can’t hear the vatti similarities, but besides that I think your research is spot on. And I can value that, voice, or no voice, keep doing you, contents great and I think your hitting it spot In my opinion. Cheers!
The Vaati similarities :'D Like... my accent? LMAO
I actually like this theory and it even has relevance in Miyazaki’s other works. In Bloodborne, the Mensis ritual is basically a Crucible, as you describe it. A powerful magic powered by mass death.
Another great video!
I've have had a thought pickling in my brain for a bit that might be valuable here. I'm pretty certain that the divine horns are a direct reference to the old mistranslation of the story of Moses. In the mistranslation it was said that Moses had holy horns emitting from his head after speaking to God on Mt Sinai. The line was supposed to say that he had holy rays of light but hundreds of years passed where the mistranslation's interpretation reined. So you would often see statues of Moses depicted with horns. There was a time too where Jewish people were feared of being able to grow horns, supposedly linking them to the devil.
Obviously that was all grossly wrong but the story of those times seem to match the horncent in concept and in their narrative of persecution.
I have also seen many links to Sumerian, Babylonian and ancient Egyptian myths littered all throughout the game.
For instance Egyptian culture was the first to describe a tree of life and a world serpent of darkness. Their creator god, Aten, was also a strangely similar to the greater will. Aten was usually depicted as a solar disk with many rays of light, terminating with hands. The hands are often depicted bestowing an ankh, the Egyptian symbol of life.
Osiris might also explain some of the coffin oddness, as well as the two finger imagery because mummies were often buried with an amulet of Osiris's two fingers.
Wow
This is my take exactly. It lines up too well with a lot of bronze age early iron age themes, and the way european cultures feared and misunderstood ancient Jewish life and beliefs. Also reminds me of the struggle in ancient Judea to establish Yahweh as the chief deity. Before that the Canaanite cultures believed in many different gods and systems(kinda like the crucible), but through shrewd political moves and tactful military operations king David cemented the idea that Yahweh was the one true god. There's definitely an undercurrent of those themes.
@@flavorwest8769 Sigmund Freud wrote a book about the Egyptian pharaoh Akenaten being the first monotheist but scholars all pretty much disagree with him. However the story of Akenaten seems to be strangely similar to Marika's.
@beansnrice321 didn't think about that connection, but now I'm remember some info about that. Good catch
the actual fright i got thinking i’d found vaati’s second channel 😂
i think your lore coverage was fucking fantastic man. i’m now a subscriber and i’ll be going on a little binge
It MUST be the accent >_>
Hahahah welcome
Dude you're like Dylan:
Spit hot fire 🔥
You and Tarnished archeologists are probably my main go to's now. KiteTales has been crushing lately as well.
Wow that video is amazing. I love the theory that a crucible is a nuklear reactor that mutates everything near it❤❤❤
Bless you ❤❤❤
This is one of my favorite lore vids
Oh you ❤
The School of Graven Mages would count as a crucible. All elements are forged by stars, thus are a true melting pot of all things.
My friend, I love the way you think. I’m looking forward to more videos, keep it up.
This is an amazing breakdown and great theory!!! Awesome work!
This guy, Smoughtown, and Vaati should all do a podcast so I can have the most peaceful sleep of my life
Castle Mourne has a mountain of bodies in the courtyard after the first elevator that could also be a crucible. There are demi-humans all about, who may have been human but through truly monstrous acts of inhumanity spontaneously evolved aspects of the crucible, becoming demi-human.
I have considered this before.... I just couldn't determine any 'power' created from this which was used.
The misbegotten are most certainly children of the crucible though- Having all the aspects they do.
I thought those misbegotten were slaves who revolted
Yeah they weren’t Demi humans, they’re misbegotten, similar but a different group. That pile of bodies was just the result of their revolt from slavery at the castle
Small loretubers cooking up the best vids 🤩
ok this is some good stuff and actually kinda answers a lot of questions about the lore ive been wondering about.
So glad to hear it
Incredible, Infa. You’re so brilliant!💜🫵🫵🫵⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
♡♡♡♡♡♡♡❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
YOU ARE ❤❤❤❤❤
An idea I’ve had about why life seems to keep getting smaller (giant skeletons -> fire giants -> trolls -> humans/soldiers -> foot soldiers -> vulgar militia) is that perhaps the erdtree keeps some of the spirit of the lives it absorbs instead of rebirthing them in full. It uses this energy to power itself while ensuring that each subsequent generation of being is smaller since there is less spirit to go ariund
The fly transformed hornsent also potentially being another crucible-esque transformation. I really like the idea of it being similar to nuclear power
Bayle is totally an omen dragon now that you mentioned, even the wings he emerged in phase 2 looks like aspect of crucible incantation
Oohhhhh great point!! That would have been great to include in the videooooo REEE
When I seen Bayle I automatically thought he was an ancient dragon with the omen curse. I haven’t watched the video yet so just my thoughts atm lol. But didn’t quite add up because he seemed like a Drake with the omen curse but shit idek at this point lol.
YES! So happy to find someone else who believes this (That Bayle is crucible-touched, that is. The rest of you video is very interesting, happy I clicked
I think the next big lore creator is gonna be someone offering a less serious more plain version of the lore. I love this in depth stuff but like a short form quest explanation with lore inbetween would be cool
I reckon the Omen's horns are more chaotic than they'd be naturally is a result of the Crucible being suppressed which in turn causes it to manifest more violently kind of like the Dark Soul in Dark Souls series.
I've always had a theory that the crucible changes with every new order or age to represent or mimic the meaning of the order/age, especially if the erdtree grew from the crucible just shows that the crucible changed itself when Marica was bringing about the golden order.
this crucible framework also explains why granseax attacked leyndell: to do a crucible for placiduseax
13:22 Romina is most likely a 'natural' saint and not an artificial one, which implies that the methods used by the hornsent were more cruel than what it may seem on the surface.
Kill Hornsent
All Dragons, even the ancient ones, being some sort of other lifeforms that "evolved" thanks to the crucible's eldritch stuff is something very intriguing. And hell, there are lots of hints towards things turning into dragons in the game, even the Runebears have dragon eyes.
Great point about the runebears :P
This is making a lot of sense brother
Great video. I'd personally pushback on the idea that the talisman of all description regarding the "giants" not reffering to the fire giants as in my analysis they too are imbued with the crucible qualities and within the timeline seems to me like primordial beings representing fire. They seem to be representing the mother of all crucible in the evolutionary timeline. Similar to muspelheim in Norse Myth. Also the song of ice and fire referincing GRRM is a fairly thematic origin story to use for the lands between. Fire Giants are key in this primordial duality in my eyes.
In general this was a bold and brave analysis into the crucible. Lots of interesting insights. I've enjoyed it but expect a copyright strike from Vaati for using his voice ;)
@Ontos99 Thankyou ♡
I would push back further and say if the colossal giants are encrusted in the very earth and therefore imo the original crucible where all life originates from- they MUST be the mother of all crucibles.
As for vaati- NUH UH!! You'll see soon, but I have a checkmate up my sleeve 😂😈
Great video. The idea of radioactivity is a great nuance for the lore. To add a little to your theory, the cinquedea has the same fingers as Metyr herself. Furthermore, it's strongly suggested that 'intelligence' comes from the cosmos.
One thing to note, is that the Hornsent went from recognising feathers as divine to then becoming besotted with horns, never recognising the serpentine tails in their culture. Is it because Marika once represented this nature of the crucible prior to the establishment of the Golden Order? And what of the feathers/bird aspect of the crucible?
Ps is this why the Blasphemous Blade is still the best weapon in the game...we're wielding a mini Crucible in our hands...mad
Beautiful points. I'll be re-looking at cinquedea that is for sure.
Yeah since it is imbued with death that would be like something being imbued with rot (And actually hitting properly)
@@ScumMageInfa Thanks bro, I appreciate it. I went back in my inventory to take a look at the Cinquedea and realised I didn't even have it haha...so went to go pick it up...looks like a little beastman ritual sacrifice...possibly a mini crucible of pillars using dragon scales? And not too far is the dragoncrest shield talisman.
The symbol on the ground where the ritual is bugs me though. The same symbol is all along the path from Raya Lucaria to Altus Plateau, where we see statues of a man on a growing tree...then I looked closer...dead bodies moulded into the tree...so another crucible...(on the statue there's a symbol of the same erdtree depicted in farum azula) Then suddenly stops when the roads architecture gets more grand. Almost like Marika built over it. Why from Raya Lucaria? Another few symbols at the Grand LIft of Rold. I wonder if that symbol is anywhere else? Too many rabbit holes haha
interesting now that i think about it as radioactive.
the Divine gate does sorta resemble the Elephants Foot in Chernobyl
other crucibles could be grafting, the sorcerer mass head ball things, also in the frenzy flame ending there is a fiery great tree, the frenzied flame of which wishes to blend all life together, so this is likely a large super crucible of the frenzied flame
His rebellion against Placidusax makes more sense from a GW vs Crucible POV if we are to believe the 3 fingers on the whole "one great" thing having ties to the crucible.
that part with the two omen's at the camp was so funny lmao
@@CoolBossFights 😂😂
Bayle looks way closer to the underground dragon warriors we find in one of the eternal cities - not sure which one, than any ancient dragon.
Not sure if you already covered it because i just started watching now, apologies in advance if you did!
As always I get pretty excited when you upload because I think you have some really unique analysis amongst the other lore creators. Thanks!
I did not! Only that they failed to mimic the scales of the ancient lords, like bayle was bereft of...
Damn good point! :)
Thanks for the generous compliment
@@ScumMageInfa not sure if you made this connection but it said that the dragon warriors lightning turned cold due to never knowing "true sky" whereas bales is legit fire lightning.
@@ScumMageInfa went back and reread the description and realized I'm off a little bit there doesn't necessarily add to them being similar in nature though there probably some connection to be had between the dragonkin's ice lightning and bales flame lightning
@@haven9409 I know another loretuber is investigating this as we speak - It will be a super good video.
@@ScumMageInfa I'll for sure be keeping an eye out for it then thanks for letting me know lol. Was ready to dismiss any connection before you had mentioned the lack of scale similar, there's also the fact the wryms were the last form of dragon communion prior to the new dragon forms which at a glance seem unconnected to the dragonkin as well but at the same time can't possibly be completely well anyhow after that brain storm the only real connection I could come up with was the oddity between flame lightning - ice lightening. I've put a lot of hours into the game and I'm familiar with Miyazaki's story stylings so imma look into myself more but I'm fairly sure they're things left unknown simply to allow for them to make more games from it and we aren't working with the full picture which was a benefit we had back in dark souls 3.
Furnace golems have a dragon in them, just wanna throw that out there
On the matter of fly people... I think it's telling that the fly sickness is related to stagnation, bodies not being cared for properly and left to rot that causes the sickness. The anatomy of the fly people is also very similar to the anatomy of Astel, naturalborn of the void. Radahn did hold the stars back for some untold time, could his halting of the stars cause the denizens of the cosmos to mutate as well? The fallingstar beasts might actually be what they are supposed to look like without stagnation.
I had this exact thought the moment I saw Bayle’s Mogh horns
Make a western fantasy version of kodoku really makes things interesting.
So it's basically the Warrior Jars on a much larger scale. I always thought the reason the jars are around the minor erdtree is to show you what the erdtree is. It's a jar, and so too it's primordial form.
@@runner18x I have ANOTHER theory about those jars... I'll be releasing the video on Monday :P
I hope the comments dont discourage you from doing these types of videos again. It might be frustrating to be constantly compared to vaati (or saying this is an ai voice of vaati lmao) but i think its easy to listen to. You and vaati's voices are so clear so its really easy to just play it in the bg.
This comment is like, the equivalent to a restful bonfire :'D
Thankyou
Crucible as a multitude parallel of nuclear reactors is a brilliant concept! Well done. I especially like tge idea that Crucibles are scalable.
JUST like nuclear tech is (or will be, or is presented in science fiction) :P
Thankyou! :)
Excellent job. Thanks for sharing this video.
I believe it's a bit early to say that marika hated the hornsent because of what they did to her people.
Marika may even helped the hornsent, as she was in a very high position in hornsent society to do her betrayal. After all she begins her crucade right AFTER veiling the land and ascending to godhood
You have to use what you have got. I reckon when she got her position of power she always intended to obliterate them. The crusade is tier 9 evidence of her hatred.
@@ScumMageInfa The Crusade isn't evidence tbh. We never hear marikas side on this.
Marika used the crusade to get rid of messmer, seal the divinity gate and get rid of crucible whorship. After all for some reason the erdtree even after shrouding her sin is in opposition to everybody. Marika destroyed pretty much any faith that was outside her order even the unnamed faith that becomes rot gets obliterated. Along with the gloam-eyed queen and the giant god. So you can say that crusade worked well for her goals, so well that it's questionable that she only did this for her people.
@@Trideastros
..... the crusade isn't evidence... nor the literal sealing of omen who have horns reminiscent to the hornsent...
Ok 😂😅
@@ScumMageInfa yes it isn't. And yes we know the crucible was shunned but it never says cause "marika felt like it"
And there even have been a lot of real people that we know of that sold out their Race\Religion\Culture
But let's leave it at that, you are thinking too much with your emotions and nothing will come out of this.
@@Trideastros 😂 ok bud
Blackflame Crucible. Perhaps a different Crucible of Death, or at least one severed from life continuing in death? The Godskins have serpentine aspects, serve the Gloam Eyed Queen, and derive all of their power from a sword that is shaped like a spiral.
Bruh given how popular AI is in having a hard time believing this isn't Vaati AI lol
5th comment calling me AI.... Ya'll.. Ya'll going on a list I STG
The theory of the crucibles being some kind of nuclear energy that you can trigger by massive murders is interesting, although Rykard didn't commit mass murder to get his crucible, he let the serpent eat him along the great rune to lather meld completely with the serpent and slowly add each new champion of the mannor to his body by devouring them, something that along the Graft of Goddrick I associate with the ability of Shaman's flesh to meld harmoniously with others. If Marika was a shaman and the demigods are her descendants I think they all had that ability and just nobody but marika and probably messmer's elite knew about it, and something that Marika just didn't want to be re discovered, wich would make both Rykard's and Goddrick's practices be viewed as Blasphemous.
We saw Romina in a human form in the story trailer, a scene of her during the crusades of Messmer. If it was a version of crucible “technology” that changed her, it would have had to taken place after the crusades - or possibly the crusades themselves forming a makeshift crucible from the mass death of the Hornsent.
I adore your name.
Oh! Don't forget that the base game has a SPIRAL glintstone sorcery, lending further credence to the idea of spirals and crucibles being a part of the fundamental cosmos!