Make your synths sound BIG! Golden Age Premiere Pre-73 DLX demo/tutorial
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- Опубліковано 3 сер 2024
- Do you want to record your synths so they sound large and expensive? If you record them with a quality transformer preamp, like a 1073, you can get that large sound and with a recording quality that lets you work that sound in the mix later.
If you're in the market for a Neve 1073 clone, and there are many manufacturer of those, I highly recommend you check out the Golden Age Premiere PRE-73 DLX. Dollar for dollar you'll find they compete with clones costing 4 times as much, and the GAP also has more features as well.
Check it out here:
goldenagemusic.mamutweb.com/S...
Many of the sounds on my new album, which I'm working on now, will be recorded like this. This album is in many ways my version of those 70s and 80s soundtracks.
Using a passive DI box, with a good transformer inside, to get the signal "down" to Mic level and then amplifying that up going in the mic inputs of the preamp, makes the preamp work a lot better and thus the sound will improve. I find this method superior to using a DI on the preamp itself.
In this video I use a Radial passive DI, that has a Jensen transformer inside it.
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Growing up I listened to so much synth-pop and it's only natural that my own music takes inspiration from many of the acts I loved back then. I still love them and listen to them!
Howard Jones, Depeche Mode, Pet Shop Boys, New Order, Erasure, Thompson Twins, Tears for Fears, The Human League, Propaganda. FGTH, Ultravox, OMD, Eurythmics, Duran Duran, Giorgio Moroder, Jean Michel Jarre, Jan Hammer, Alphaville, A-ha as well as loads of artists doing what is now called Italo Disco. And many more great acts like Nik Kershaw, Spandau Ballet, Wham, Dire Straits ++
A wealth of info from the Amazing Mr. Kraft as usual!
This is awesome. Though technically it's been suggested that you'd want to use a reamp to drop the signal level from line level to instrument level, then use a DI box to drop the signal from instrument level to mic level. I've seen in multiple places that the radial JDI can handle the synth line level signal without issue, and it does a fine job of it here. This is what I use in my setup. I have 2x Radial JCR going into 2x Radial JDI, and I run them into the mic inputs of the Handcrafted Labs Affinity Stereo Tube Mic Pre -> Handcrafted Labs Solution Stereo Tube Optical Leveling Amplifier -> pair of Klark Teknik EQP-KT Parametric Equalizers -> Handsome Audio Zulu Stereo Passive Analog Tape Simulator. Or I use the reamps and run through a pedal effects chain before hitting the JDI and into the preamps. Great video, as always. Keep up the stellar content! 😃
Been hitting my 1073 via a DI with my model D, 2600, RSF, Xpander etc for years. Lovely low mid bumps. Just got a pair of golden age 1081 EQs. They working checking out.
Nice video! I really can recommend pre-amping or re-amping synths and drum machines. Especially virtual synths profit a lot by re-amping.
The Radial JDI box is very often used in studios and a great piece of gear. Myself I use JDI boxes and an old TL Audio A4 tube summing mixer for my synths and vsti's.
The GAP PRE-73 DLX is also ok for this job. But because you need two for stereo synths the price is close to a Warm Audio WA-273, that may be a better choice in my opinion.
Another beast is the Audient ASP800 - also a great tool for pre-amping synths and cheaper then two GAP's.
Great video!
I too love my Golden Age Premiere Pre-73 DLX
Cheers!
These sound great, I need some in my studio.
this is great :) I always thought about adding the DLX preamp to my EQ-73 :D sounds like galaxy cream
OMG Espen, my Dad had a Six Trak back in the 80's!. Wow the 73 makes it huge!!@!
great video, thanks for sharing!!
Cheers!
Awesome!
👏🏻👋🏼Really interesting. Had the same pleasing experience when using Rupert Neve RNDI-S with the Moog Matriarch instead of Moog Matriarch’s line outs directly to UAD Apollo’s line ins.
I totally agree. This is how Neve and clones should be used. They are effectors, not amplifiers.
Good idea on the JDI box. I got two preamps I want to hit hard with my synths
Yeah GAP's great never should of sold it many moons ago but I was trying to get money for the Rupert which I never pulled the trigger on ended up with a BBE Sonicmaximiser 362NR & Symetrix comp/limiter 501 which was a decent sound for awhile till I started strictly to use the computer as a recorder & switched to KDFX for my man efx system duties thanx dude
I used to record Moog bass through a Radial JDI into a UA 710, with a preference for the transistor rather than tube side. The 710 made a superb bass guitar DI as well. For those on a tighter budget I think the ART passive DI and preamps are pretty good for the money, though you won't get the build quality.
I have an ART Digital MPA II and it indeed works well on stereo synths.
Espen- been waiting for you to do a video like this. Really cool- thanks. Just to clarify, you're running a stereo signal from one synth (or drum machine) into 2 separate pre-amps? I saw two xlr inputs on the back of the Golden Age so I was wondering why you weren't using that instead. Thanks so much.
Thanks! No, these are just mic and line inputs, on combo Neutriks. It's just one mic input, so I need two (mono preamps) to get a stereo signal in/out. The DLX-73 is not a stereo preamp.
@@EspenKraft Thanks Espen.
What does "nice juicy sounds" mean? Volume got louder. A secondary DI? Interface AD DA converters color sound after preamp. Never A-B ed without preamp. Dont hear difference thru studio headphone. Plug-ins emulate this?
Nice video, mate.
A quick tip: Put them verticaly side by side (or one of top of the other), one rubber band on the outputs and you get stereo link! 😉
Or if you use the upside down, they're compatible for use in Australia too. ;-)
@@EspenKraft Rubber, that's the important thing, Espen! Always use rubber on your little knob!
I was thinking of getting the Warm Audio WA273 dual channel but this sounds great.
Can recommend the 273 (via a radial JDI) for stereo synth duties. Works wonders for beefing up a Korg M1, for example.
@@db3944 yea its on the shopping list. will also get the radial stereo jdi. I also have a heritage audio successor to add to the chain.
i am preaching this for over 10 years to all synth guys to use mic_preamps for recording and getting great sound
Hello Robert, do you have a recommendation if you want to record drums and synth bass? Regards
@@h.guntersson2243 the same unit works greaat
Much thanks.
hallo lieber robert, gehst du auch via DI Box in den Preamp ? was ist mit compressor und eq hinter dem Preamp ? Sinnvoll oder genügt es wie hier gezeigt wird bloss mit DI & Preamp ? Wieso kein Channelstrip für das Tracking des Synths ? Fatso ? Danke für jeden Tip im voraus & mach weiter so ! lg klinikat
I run my Prophet into an ART opto compressor which has a tube gain stage. The comp (about 2-3db gain reduction, slower attack) gives the synth a more natural attack and decay, and the tube gain stage basically does the same thing as the preamp in this vid. I love it! A good channel strip with a comp after the pre might be even better, but since I already had the ART, it was easy (I also put a cheap SPL vitalizer after the ART to boost highs and tighten lows, because Prophets, Rhodes, and other keyboards need dat imo) ✌️
This is a great video! If you were to place an effects pedal in the chain, where do you place it?
Thanks!
Thanks! A pedal would be put right after the synth.
Sounds just like me after too much Mexican food.
What a fantastic, fat sound. Well done!
Cheers!
Inspirational video @Espen Kraft as always ! Long term holder here :) #EspenKraft
Cheers!
Hi Espen. Great video - many thanks for this! Just wondering... what is the utility of inverting the phase?
A phase inversion can sometimes help a sound sit better in a mix with other sounds, as the phase cancellations and reinforcements will happen the other way around which might yield a more pleasing result. Note, this would usually be done to both channels in a stereo signal, not just one of them unless you want that effect. There are also ways you can do more controlled phase rotation rather than a complete inversion so it can be dialed in more to taste. Hope this helps!
It's mostly used when recording acoustic instruments, through two microphones, like a snare drum in the studio. You would put one mic at the top of the snare and the other below. You then have to flip one of the phases to get a coherent sound. If you didn't the two mics, facing each other, would cancel each other out. You could of course also do it on the mixing board, but not all boards have a phase flip switch.
That's the main use of a phase flip switch on gear like this.
hi espen, cool trick ,) why don't you use a compressor or channelstrip instead of preamp ? or is it wise to use compressor and eq after the preamp signal ? thnx appreciated this vid !!
Always start with the preamp. You want the best signal possible before taking it elsewhere.
Recording via a preamp takes the sound to another level. What I'm wondering: are you going straight into the audio interface or through your SSL?
When using a preamp like this I go straight to the converters. If I want a more clean sound I'd have used the SSLs to begin with. Which I also do a lot. It all depends on where I'm to use the sound and with what else.
I use the exact same DI in exactly the same way. Difference is I go into either a Focusrite ISA pair, or an Avalon 737. Or if I want super fat low end on mono output synth, my TLA 5150. Good video, as always :)
why would you use ISA pair ( assuming ISA ONE you are speaking about ) as opposed to a single ISA using both inputs ?
btw I have the ISA ONE, it sounds wonderful.
@@louiseisobel I use a pair for stereo outputs of various polysynths. I have an ISA II :)
@@MrAndyshanahan : ah great. I was looking at getting that. Recommended?
@@louiseisobel I love it because it's two in a single rackspace unit. I've always loved focusrite for detail and clarity, and was lucky enough to see one of their custom consoles in 2001 at Ocean Way in L.A.
Awesomesauce! Now if I could only keep my Six-Trak in tune... :-/
Thanks for this Info mate! Wanna try this combo very soon.
Does the sound still go through the Carnhill-Transformers of the GA73 ?
Best, Felix
It does.
@@EspenKraft thx mate! very nice of you
Great video as usual, I thought the pre amp sounded nice!
Cheers!
@@EspenKraft Question....Do you use the jack output from the pre 73 and jack into your interface?
Correct. Straight to the converters. I don't go to another preamp stage first.
Espen- one other question on these pres please- how do they sound on vocals? Thanks.
They sound great.
I run all of my synth and drum tracks through their own UAD Neve Preamp and Studer A800 plugin chain. It's hard to describe the effect other than something akin to magic pixie dust.
Phantom power always worries me in this kind of setup. Would it kill the Radial or the synth if accidentally pressed? I wonder if there's a filter that'll not let any 48V phantom power pass if turned on by mistake? Phantom power toggles should be under protective guards.. like a missile launch switch. It sounds lovely, though
Hm JDI Stereo manual says Phantom power will not harm *it*.. I guess that means it would also not pass any through to 6.3mm TS.. if so that'd be perfect for peace of mind
Phantom power is DC and it will not pass through the transformer inside this so no harm whatsoever.
@@EspenKraft good to know 👍
Please how did you connect it to get a stereo recording using both of them , I don’t understand the DI box part
With two mono preamps you have to outputs as well=stereo.
Can you explain a bit more about why you don't use the internal DI and prefer an external DI?
Like I say in the video, I use the passive DI box to get the hot level out of the synth to mic level. The Radial saturates that synth signal as well because of the Jensen transformer. Then it gets cranked up going in the MIC inputs of the preamp. You could not drive the preamp so hard if you'd go through the DI input of that, that would defeat the whole purpose of what I'm trying to show here.
@@EspenKraft OK got now.
Could you safe some money and do this with the Golden Age premier pre73 (non DLX) and use the Line Input? This has a 30db pad and goes into the Carnhill - the same as for the mic input. There is a 14 db Pad before the output too. I wounder if you would loose more than the saturated sound of the DI Transformers. But it would be much cheaper overall.
Of course you could. It won't sound the same, but if you get a sound YOU like out of that way it then that's the most important thing.
Generally, headroom wise, is the preamp handling multiple sound sources simultaneously or do you run each synth at the time?
What you feed in is up to you, but you would usually use a preamp for a single source like a microphone or line. It's not a mixer. ;-)
@@EspenKraft So one preamp per synth, which is not really feasable? I guess that was more common when the big mixning consoles had preamps on every input, right? You have to patch in every synth thru the preamp one at a time when recording audio? Sorry if I ask obvious questions but the recording landscape seem to have changed so much with modern tech but I have limited understanding of the ancient setup as well I guess.
I don't think you understand. These are preamps I use for certain types of sounds, setups or whatever. Every mixer has preamps you can use for recording more synths at the same time. I also have lots of other high end preamps for recording multiple sound sources at the same time. Nothing ancient about this. This has not changed for 100 years, it's just the recording medium that has changed. Today you can also record onto digital mediums, like a DAW. Which you didn't have in the 70s or before.
There is a revival of the musical application of analog distorsion to original signal. Also for analog compression, chorus, delay, etc etck etckchumfp. All smell to a superlative nostalgia of that era when electronic music was pure 'rocknroll', more than a thing of GBytes.
They sound better, boys; as with some vetusware "newer is not always better". And Atari timing continue as the f#** mastersupremeking of MIDI timing. Nowadays, to appreciate the differences in sound treatment, maybe it is more a thing of 'class'. You have it.... or not.
Please check Merovingio talking on matrix resurrection 😎
2:56 Yes, I am In your gear, making sure you get that balanced level! ;)
you ARE a transformer! :)
@@MrAndyshanahan Autobots assemble! 🤖😂
@@MrAndyshanahan in disguise!
It sounds great! Why don't you use the DI input and why do you prefer thru the Radial JDI instead?
Well, did you see only the start? ;-) I show and tell exactly what I do, and why. :D
@@EspenKraftI did not know the DI input was an active one. So now it makes sense to go thru a passive ;-)
Exactly. I go through the Radial to get down to Mic level which I can then crank up through the Mic inputs of the preamp. Best technique do get full saturation, if that's what's needed and often that is with synths. ;-)
@@EspenKraft As a synth-man who always record my synth straight into my interface, i don't know well all usefullness of DI box (i know it's used to get a balanced out from unbalanced). I was thinking they were all passive, hence my misunderstanding 😊
This Radial is passive. That's the only way this will work.
How many of this chain do you have in the studio?
I only have two of these, so I can use it on a stereo sound if I want.
Espen....great video....but I'm here because I want to buy that Akai ME20A you have in the back there. Please!! I've been looking for one of those forever!! I'll pay top dollar!
Send me an email if you have an nice offer. ;-)
@@EspenKraft How do I find your email? Name your price!
@@mcdosia420 You find that in the "about" section on my channel. I don't reveal my email in an open comments section like this. ;-)
Espen, this equipment is like my wife. All I have to do is touch the right spots and everything plays and screams like perfect 80's gear (but Espen please, be discreet).
how do you find this for vocals vs the audient pres?
Very good.
@@EspenKraft thanks for replying! looking at buying a sub $500 vocal preamp, it's either this or the Camden EC1. What's your go-to for vocals?
For my on vocals I mainly use the SSL preamps in my mixer. ;-)
Is your di box set to ground or lift?
Can't remember what I did in this video, but I don't have any ground problems here so I assume it's on "ground".
I'm using cheap ART Tubepreamps for the same purpose... This preamp is indeed way cleaner and fatter, but to be honest - I prefer the cheap 40€ preamps... They are kind of dirty :)
There is a guy from Boston who mods those ART preamps
@patrik knoerr :
Which model ?
What is this drum machine?
The Isla S2400.
So line in or mic in ? Whats the deal ?
That's exactly what I explain in the video.
Är det en Tascam MSR-16?
Nej, det är 8-spors.
@@EspenKraft Ah, TSR-8 gissar jag 🙂
Yes ;-)
Is this a paid promotion?
Why not use the DI in the preamp?
I explain why in the video description.
thats nice but i have a real deal 1073 dual mic pre Espen : )
No shame in that.
So wait... this technique only works with two Pre-73 DLX's?
If you want to record in stereo you will need two mono preamps yes.
Boop
Whenever I hear that kind of mono bass synth sound, I instantly think of the 1970s track Birdland by Weather Report. Also has real bass with the legendary Jaco Pastorius! ua-cam.com/video/SvhmaNlLgRM/v-deo.html
30kHz EQ? LOL! (Edit I thought it was boosting or cutting things above 30kHz. It's not what it does. I blame lack of coffee).
No need for the LOL. It's quite useful and It's of course very subtle and not something you can hear, it's like a lift in "air" more. Not that uncommon as a feature.
@@EspenKraft Lend it to me and I'll make you a double blind test and we can see. :-D I'll even look at the circuitry and measure it up to make sure it does what it's supposed to.
@@RegebroRepairs The answer why the eq works is simple: ,,Strictly speaking, this is not a typical high-shelf filter that would raise the frequency range above a certain corner, but a bell filter with a broad filter curve whose center frequency is around 30 kHz.‘‘
@@EspenKraft I like the Sound to.
@@h.guntersson2243 So it's a high boost. Why do they call it a 30kHz filter, LOL? Edit: No, they call it EQ, my bad. I listened to this before drinking my coffee. :-)
Absolutely pointless when you dont turn ON/OFF the device. Video about your voice, your haircut, some nice chord progressions, good sound of Oberheim. But what about GAP Pre73? I didnt hear it
Haha, nothing to see here. Move on.
I did the same thing i used my jdi with jenson trans and my golden age project and ran my synth threw niceeeeeeeeeeeeee !