Congrats, you are literally the first person to directly compare the J2 to a Bifrost. Only have been waiting for this video for the last 2 years. So thank you.
Thanks for showing how easy it is to change op amps in the Geshelli J2S. I have an Aune X8, Burson conductor 3XP, and Conductor Reference SE and all have sockets. Both Bursons are shipping with 4 Vivid op amps each. So I had plenty of those to evaluate with. I also have 4 each of the Sparkos Labs 3602 and 2590Pro op amps. And I soldered up 5 OPA1656 (surface mount) onto dip adapters. The difference between the various op amps is quite easy to hear in the Aune and the Bursons using the Reference as headphone amp (single ended RCA optimized only for this version) and listening through the excellent HiFiMan Ananda Nano headphones. The OPA1656 is the new cutting edge IC op amp that is considered one of the current best but I find that it is easily bettered by all 3 of the discrete op amps . In comparison it is not as wide and any instruments that are mixed to the far sides become harder to make out. It does have a solid center image but is slightly more veiled and flat. Burson has been building various iterations of a vertically oriented larger discrete op amp and the Vivid is the newest which are coming standard in most of their models with sockets. They are also aggressively marketing them to op amp rollers to try at a reasonable price. But I am unfortunately not impressed after hearing the Sparkos op amps. Not being a professional reviewer I don't feel that I have to pull my punches. I appreciate what they are trying to do but the Sparkos 3602 is clearly better at a similar price. The Vivids are wider and deeper than the OPA1656 but I thought that they might have a slight glare on female vocals and are still muddier with less clearly defined separation and fleshing out of the instrument. Cardboard facsimile were the words that popped into my head. The Sparkos Labs 3602 is a fine sounding op amp. If the OPA1656 is the latest and greatest step up from the OPA2134 which along with the OPA627 were my favorites 20 years ago. Then there must be no IC op amp that can compare. The 3602 has more extension and power in the bass and far better transparency into a detailed 3D soundstage that the other two.can't compete with. This is in a different league and anyone buying any dac that can run these op amps will want to stretch to go for them. They easily fit the Burson gear and should plug in anywhere an 8 pin DIP device was removed. As for the Sparkos 2590 Pro, I would venture that most people have not heard them since they are a cost no object/ size no object, format that is designed to drop in to vintage studio mixing boards. But the Dual to DIP adapter kit that Sparkos uses to adapt them can be plugged right in to the Belly Hatch position of the Aune X8 with one DIP spacer so anyone can easily try them in comparison with anything else for the price of this inexpensive $300 DAC. Since they are too big to just plug in to the sockets on the Bursons, I had to wire them up to an off board fly lead connector to reposition them to fit. But it was well worth the effort The 2590 Pro is another leap ahead of the 3602 This is what musical sounds like. And they have ridiculous extension, power and control in the bass. Female vocals sound so pure and real. They have the widest stage with detail of the reverb and hall sound right out to the edges. Interestingly I did feel at times that the 3602 might sound a bit blacker between the notes. It is a fine op amp and it fits but the 2590 has just that much more of a musical ease and detail as if you have to work far less hard to imagine a coherent image. Less filling in of missing pieces. Without spending 45 minutes to report the differences section by section on various tracks, The Sparkos Labs discrete op amps are an adamant recommendation. Try them for yourself.
Really informative my man i'm a toddler as audiophile. I needed to learn about dacs and for someone to guide my furtile mind and my brother you came to mind. I enjoyed the video and learn a few things. The way i know i enjoyed it because the time went by fast and for me, that makes you one of my go to when i want to know something. Alright then, i'm energized now and i some be thinking about bed but one more video i think. Thanks for the heads up.
@wavetheory I just wanted to write to you and say how much I enjoyed your very detailed review. I'm very interested in the Socketed with Sparkos. I've been looking at the Ares II for 3 yes and you're the second person to say it's on par so to speak. Thanks
This is a great little dac. I use only the single ended output, but I have tried several different op-amps; Sparkos 3602, Sparkos 2590, Staccato, Burson, Sonic Imagery. The sound with Sparkos 2590 is just great, surprisingly big upgrade over the 3602. Now after watching your review I think I need to try a linear power supply!
Great review, I have owned the Schiit 2/64 for just over a year. I stream Apple Music and Tidal via my PC and iPad Pro to the Bifrost 2/64 through USB. I concur with the bad recordings listening on the Bifrost 2/64, so much I am thinking about looking for a new DAC. Great recordings sound great with the Bifrost 2/64 and then I want to keep it. I am using a Schiit Folkvangr (tube) amp with Mullard E88CC tubes. My headphones are the Senn HD650 and Denon AH-D9200.
I used to have the BF2 (OG), sold it, went through other dacs, and ultimately ended up deciding on the BF2/64 as my desktop DAC. It's just "right" as an all-rounder. However, my Yggdrasil on my main setup is my favorite DAC of all time.
I tried the SS3602 and like the SS2590 better - maybe be worth trying as well- its what I now use on by 3 amps (Burson Sololist 3XGT x6 ss2590 and my two seperate Ray Samuels Apache (4x 2590 each amp) - I tried every single op amp worthy and the 2590's was tops
Nice one man. I have a Geshelli Archel 3 Pro Amp coming soon(I hope). I'm all set with a Gustard A26 DAC. I'd be curious what you think of the Schiit SYN. Got one for Gaming/Movies and it surprised me in a good way. Surround Sound FTW
Nice on the A26! I just got the Gustard P26 and put 2 SparkosLabs SS2590 dual pros in it. I have the J2 with the new AKM4499EX coming soon... That will also have the SS2590's in it on the balanced end. But that A26.. Man! dual 4499EX! Ah to dream...
I concur with almost everything you report, on this Geshelli J2S DAC. And if you are so inclined, you can use the top-of-the-line Sparkos SS2590 dual mono unit on the single ended socket. And boy oh boy the quality takes another big jump up. I am using a 50W 12V LPS *and* I am using a Noise Nuke (DC noise filter and capacitance DIY unit), and it completely outperforms the other DACs I have - the Ares II with 12th Anniversary update, and Bifrost 2/64. I am of the opinion that the Bifrost 2/64 is brittle/bright in my system, whereas the J2S is far more revealing of the recording.
@@hdsarma The SS2590 is physically much larger, and it's a mono op-amp. The SS2590 can be put into a dual mono DIP8 package - and that's what I am using in the single ended RCA socket of my J2S DACs. They simple won't fit in the balanced XLR sockets. If they reworked the circuit board, it could happen.
Using Sparkos ss2590 op amp in the single ended brings the J2S 4493 to a whole nother level. However a linear power supply is needed. This is my configuration
amirm from audiosciencereview did some measurements to this DAC and wrote: "I am sure the J2 sounds good but as objective results go, it is just not keeping up with the competition"
Audio Science Review? That site sucks! "All DACS sound the same, and if you disagree, you are imagining things". They actually think measurements = sound quality (to an extent, sure, but most of the "low measurements" they come up with are beyond human hearing and have nothing to do with how it sounds. I joined there a month and the regulars are as bad as AVS Forums. Both are filled with poor hearing people who attacks anyone who does not think with the hive mentality.
Great and thorough review. Thanks. I have a j2s with sparkos in the single ended out with a 50w lps. Do you feel i need to add sparkos in the balanced end to make this configuration fully competitive with the bifrost 2 64? The lps is still being broken in. It really adds depth and soundstage but does emphasize the upper mids compared to the stock ps in my opinion. Your thoughts?
Geshelli labs J2S (AKM4493) vs Schiit Modi multibit 2 I'm looking for a recommendation between these 2 DACs. I'm wanting something with good dynamics/slam/impact with a good sound stage. For me the music needs to be engaging and fun. For reference, I have a Schiit modi 3 and love it ( I just want more of it). For me, it smokes the Audio GD R2R-11 (the top end not resolving) and the SMSL D6S (sounds clean, but music isn't fun to listen to). The new modi multibit 2 seems like it may give me a good soundstage and more of the "fun" I'm looking for, while I've heard the J2S (basic) is really engaging and impactful, too. What do you think?
I have heard JNOG2 is the best DAC "ever", and then I heard a few say they liked the Modi Multibit 2 better than it by far. I personally think multibit/R2R DACS sound much better than Delta-sigma, they sound more analog and the individual instruments have more meat on them. It is akin to records compared to CD. That is compounded by the fact most Chi-Fi DACS are shooting for astronomically low distortion and high SNR, but that is also why a lot of them tend to sound sterile. I ordered a JNOG2 socketed, decked out, but I am actually thinking of going with a Modi Multibit 2 or used Bifrost 2 (or 1 if not able to find).
You can use ANY super noisy USB output you want, you just have to buy a little device that splits the USB data signal from the USB power, I have one and it eliminated 100% of the noise that was present with my khadas tone board. Most DACs get their power from the USB, including the khadas, so this little data/power splitting device also has a separate power input, which can be fed with a cell phone charger or whatever 5v supply you want to use, and then that much cleaner power without any influence from the computer is sent along with the data to the DAC. Since the J2 has it's own separate 12v input, this part might not even be necessary and perhaps it only needs the data input.
Things are getting a bit confusing with opamps first it's the amplifier now swapping opamps is becoming dac thing. So now do you have to have the same opamps all through your system? If my dac has sparkos and my amp does not am I wasting money buying the j2 with sparkos.
Excellent question. I have wondered the same. If you had only one set of Sparkos amps, wouldn’t you get much more benefit by deploying them downstream in the signal path…like in the amp?
It's not a dissimilar idea in either amp or dac. The output level coming out of the DAC chip is usually very low so a small amplifier circuit becomes part of the output stage so that the output can be amplified to 4v (for balanced) or 2v (for single ended). An op-amp - which means operational amplifier - is one way to do said amplification. In the power amplifier op-amps can be used to take that 4v or 2v signal and make it even larger in magnitude. It's worthwhile to improve op-amp quality anywhere there is one. At the DAC level it's important because any details lost due to poor op-amp performance will simply vanish. No matter how good an amplifier is, it cannot add back in lost signal information.
Adding LPS to this DAC should upgrads sound quality qs much as opamp switching. I have tried cheap LPS from AliExpress first and I was not impressed. It made little better base but sounds became little dull, not that upgraded sounds I expected. So I added my custom made LPS made with audiophile quality capacitors and increased capacitance with custom made power cable and usb cable and upgraded sounds I get was really expected. Extra bottom end, wider sound stage, more texture, bigger dynamic, every aspect of the sound quality was improved. It really made cheap Wiim pro to next level streamer.
Great video, lots of useful information. One question, currently I would have to use the RCA (Unbalanced) Outputs. Understanding the balanced out puts have a better output compared to the RCA output. Would a balanced to RCA adapter help me?
Using my J2S with SS2590 on the single ended output, connected to the EverSolo DMP-A6 via USB. Other than no DSD as the EverSolo does not yet support the Amanero USB module properly, but it sounds amazing. It is really hard to A/B test opamps as it take quite a bit of time to take them out/put them back in, but I am very happy with the setup.
Is the highest version J2S, with the most powerful components, is close to the image of Chodrd Qutest? The Chord served me very well for 5 years, but it did not have an XLR, and the instruments sounded a bit "too thin", lacked mass, and therefore lost their naturalness.
Hi, For testing it's full potential, you should review it with the dual AK4499EX + AK4191EQ DAC chips / Flagship DACs... By the way, these also in the new version - "JNOG3" Thank you
I'm just curious about the whole ideal of a 'noisy' PC USB. Surely, it's a digital bitstream? Would I still have the same issues if I used the SPDIF-Out on my sound card?
It is a digital bitstream, correct. The trick is the 1s and 0s of the digital bitstream have to be transmitted as modulations of an electromagnetic wave. What travels along the usb wire is an EM wave shaped to represent the 1s and 0s. Being an EM wave makes it susceptible to other sources EM interference. Computers have dozens of electrical circuits sending tiny little currents every which way and lots of little individual power supplies providing energy to all those little circuits. Those circuits create their own EM fields which can start to mess with how the audio 1s and 0s traveling as EM waves themselves move about. All those power supplies often cause their own problems as well because they tend to not be filtered out of other EM signals very well. So what happens is the wave carrying the representations of the 1s and 0s just starts to get messy because it's traveling through a lot of junk. Our ears interpret this as a less clean or "noisy" signal. Using a fiber optic output helps reduce some of the noise but will only go so far. SPDIF also has its own drawbacks in terms of bandwidth and what kinds of signals it can carry. Does this help?
With the Sparkos SS3602 OPA on the unbalanced output, how much of an improvement is offered to someone for whom connection via RCA cables is the only option?
It's an improvement over the TIs to be sure. But if you really need SE I'd save a bit more and look into Soekris dac1421. I have a review for that out as well.
I have the j2s with the Sparkos 3602 in the single ended output. It’s brilliant. Would I gain much by using the 3602 in balanced? My preamp is a freya noval which accepts balanced. Your review is very informative and accurate imo. Interested to see your review of the j2s 4499
I think Schiit is more advanced in their usb output right? It is too bad that Geshelli needs a proper clean USB output. I use my PC as a source and it is definitely dirty and noisy. I used Modi Multibit 2 and haven't find any problem with noisy background until now. Perhaps if I use a cleaner USB output there will be a difference even with my Modi Multibit 2. Who knows, never tried before.
That combo is not particularly headphone picky. Pretty much everything I tried that wasn't a super-inefficient planar (think HE6 series) sounded really good.
Sampling rate is not necessarily tied to quality. Lot's goes into that. But, the Geshelli dacs typically handle up to 24/192 via their spdif inputs and dsd and up to 32/384 via usb.
I saw a video where the presenter used needle- nosed pliers that were curved at the end to remove opampsThey might be called bent nose. I haven't tried them yet but they look like they would be a great aid.
I've had my 2/64 for a month now and honestly don't like what it does to female vocals. Something in the mids is off to me with the way the burrito filter highlights certain parts of the frequency. But I'm 100% single ended, is there any other DAC out there sub $500 that I should be looking at? I have a Mimby, and Mimby 2 doesn't feel like much of an upgrade if it has the same 2/64 tonality.
Oof, quality SE dacs under $500 are rare. The Modi Multibit 2 is solid but probably similar to your issues with the latest Bifrost. If $500 is a hard ceiling I'd search around for used Soekris dac1421. A used Chord Mojo 2 may be an option but I haven't heard that one yet.
@@wavetheorysoundI need multiple dacs so budget can't stretch that much. I might get the EF400 for the office since its USB only, a J2 for the tv and definitely leaning Soekris for 2.0 channel music/tube on Sennheisers. I listened to the BF2 last night and preferred NOS apart from the occasional high frequency zinguer. The filter emphasizes sounds too much for me.
I wonder if anyone has tried the sparkos ss2590, an op-amp step up. I also agree on the improvements you've mentioned but funnily enough some sites will measure no difference and say there should be no difference.
I have used the SS2590 on the single ended RCA output - and it is wonderful! It may require a single riser (Sparkos sells these for $2), as it is snug. If you also have the SS3602 on the balanced XLR sockets, you need a 2nd riser for the SS2590, to raise it up higher.
@@NeilBlanchard you can get dual ss2590 from sparkos, select the option where you get them to solder the adaptor on. I have 6 for my soloist GT and it's nowhere near the same amp anymore.
Replacing an op amp is more likely to add distortion as the DAC is designed around the opamp inside. Most people don't have enough electronic knowledge to do this. Making a difference doesn't mean better, Every mixing desk in the audio chain has gone through hundreds of NE5532. So you put in an unsuitable OPamp in a little box in your living room, you hear some high frequency noise and think it sounds better because you paid more for it, Unless you can test an improvement you are probably making things worse.
This is crazy, Tube amps use "Tube rolling" and now Solid state has made up "Op-amps rolling"?!!! This is getting out of hand and it's amazing people still believe on this bull. What abaout some blind listening test and some high resolution listening samples and not just talking as most of these UA-cam so called "audio experts or Audio-Phools" do. This is a never ending dilemma with Audio, from cables, Dacs, power amps, power supplies, pre-amps, speakers, tubes and now "Op-Amps" 🤣😂
I've watched quite a bit of this video so far and it's been very good. I will be disappointed though, if the only listening that was done was through headphones. It's my understanding that it's not possible to discern everything that a DAC like this can provide through headphones. Maybe I missed something that said that this review was only going to be using headphones and not speakers?
Holy Cow! Was excited at first, but now I need a $285 Power Supply and a $1k streamer to clean up the USB signal. Please help me at least with a cheaper way to provide low noise USB input if music initially starting with my PC. Thanks! (New subscriber today)
Thanks for the sub! If you need USB you're better off using a laptop than a big desktop PC. My Surface Pro 4 is reasonably quiet and does a nice job. Unfortunately those beefy GPUs in gaming computers that give us wonderful graphical fidelity and speed create horrible amounts of singal noise that bleed into audio signals.
@@wavetheorysound thanks for the info, you are 100% about the graphics cards. Was wondering whether a raspberry pi or a NUC mini pc would provide cleaner USB. Thanks again!
Hey wave can't wait to get mine fully loaded but I bought it before I seen this video, Ill call Sherie and see if I can get you your afiliate link pay through me.
It ships with them. I just couldn't find it just before filming. Of course it slid under another dac and I found it when I went to swap out the next piece for review 😅
Nice review, was really informative! But you might wanna be more gentle to microelectronics and not put your fingers all over the pcb, and circuits 😂😂😂 you gave anxiety
Just review a stock J2, spending an arm a leg should improve the sound as it should...by the time you make it sound better you would have spent hundred$ more...just get a chord mojo2 or an smsl do400 ex
I think that the 2xTOSLINK, 2xCOAX is where it started - deliberate two front and two rear, and I guess by now a legacy trademark of the company. The USB option was added later, and why would they want to make everybody pay for it. Having options is great.
In the video I mentioned the cost of shipping...Geshelli ships for free within the US. There is a charge for international shipping.
And which wood is that? Didn’t see in the notes.
@@EvenHarmonics The wood is Zebra and Padauk. Padauk is the red wood, Zebra the striped.
Congrats, you are literally the first person to directly compare the J2 to a Bifrost. Only have been waiting for this video for the last 2 years. So thank you.
What an amazingly detailed review. Thanks for the work. Just what I needed!
It's much easier to roll tubes than op amps because tubes have a round shape.
lol
yeah indeed, a week ago my son of 3 was rolling tubes.
😅
😂
Thanks for showing how easy it is to change op amps in the Geshelli J2S. I have an Aune X8, Burson conductor 3XP, and Conductor Reference SE and all have sockets. Both Bursons are shipping with 4 Vivid op amps each. So I had plenty of those to evaluate with. I also have 4 each of the Sparkos Labs 3602 and 2590Pro op amps. And I soldered up 5 OPA1656 (surface mount) onto dip adapters. The difference between the various op amps is quite easy to hear in the Aune and the Bursons using the Reference as headphone amp (single ended RCA optimized only for this version) and listening through the excellent HiFiMan Ananda Nano headphones.
The OPA1656 is the new cutting edge IC op amp that is considered one of the current best but I find that it is easily bettered by all 3 of the discrete op amps . In comparison it is not as wide and any instruments that are mixed to the far sides become harder to make out. It does have a solid center image but is slightly more veiled and flat.
Burson has been building various iterations of a vertically oriented larger discrete op amp and the Vivid is the newest which are coming standard in most of their models with sockets. They are also aggressively marketing them to op amp rollers to try at a reasonable price. But I am unfortunately not impressed after hearing the Sparkos op amps. Not being a professional reviewer I don't feel that I have to pull my punches. I appreciate what they are trying to do but the Sparkos 3602 is clearly better at a similar price. The Vivids are wider and deeper than the OPA1656 but I thought that they might have a slight glare on female vocals and are still muddier with less clearly defined separation and fleshing out of the instrument. Cardboard facsimile were the words that popped into my head.
The Sparkos Labs 3602 is a fine sounding op amp. If the OPA1656 is the latest and greatest step up from the OPA2134 which along with the OPA627 were my favorites 20 years ago. Then there must be no IC op amp that can compare. The 3602 has more extension and power in the bass and far better transparency into a detailed 3D soundstage that the other two.can't compete with. This is in a different league and anyone buying any dac that can run these op amps will want to stretch to go for them. They easily fit the Burson gear and should plug in anywhere an 8 pin DIP device was removed.
As for the Sparkos 2590 Pro, I would venture that most people have not heard them since they are a cost no object/ size no object, format that is designed to drop in to vintage studio mixing boards. But the Dual to DIP adapter kit that Sparkos uses to adapt them can be plugged right in to the Belly Hatch position of the Aune X8 with one DIP spacer so anyone can easily try them in comparison with anything else for the price of this inexpensive $300 DAC. Since they are too big to just plug in to the sockets on the Bursons, I had to wire them up to an off board fly lead connector to reposition them to fit. But it was well worth the effort The 2590 Pro is another leap ahead of the 3602 This is what musical sounds like. And they have ridiculous extension, power and control in the bass. Female vocals sound so pure and real. They have the widest stage with detail of the reverb and hall sound right out to the edges. Interestingly I did feel at times that the 3602 might sound a bit blacker between the notes. It is a fine op amp and it fits but the 2590 has just that much more of a musical ease and detail as if you have to work far less hard to imagine a coherent image. Less filling in of missing pieces. Without spending 45 minutes to report the differences section by section on various tracks, The Sparkos Labs discrete op amps are an adamant recommendation. Try them for yourself.
Another comprehensive, well-thought-out review, thanks.
Really informative my man i'm a toddler as audiophile. I needed to learn about dacs and for someone to guide my furtile mind and my brother you came to mind. I enjoyed the video and learn a few things. The way i know i enjoyed it because the time went by fast and for me, that makes you one of my go to when i want to know something. Alright then, i'm energized now and i some be thinking about bed but one more video i think. Thanks for the heads up.
Wow. Great insight on this dac from Geshelli. Nice review.
@wavetheory I just wanted to write to you and say how much I enjoyed your very detailed review. I'm very interested in the Socketed with Sparkos. I've been looking at the Ares II for 3 yes and you're the second person to say it's on par so to speak.
Thanks
Geshelli Labs is an amazing company and it has been extremely interesting to see how the performance changes based on the different kind of opas!👍
How can such a small company compete with a large Chinese company. Chinese must be pretty dumb not knowing how to make something sound good.
Amazing work,
Thanks and I’ll be using your link to purchase 😊
This is a great little dac. I use only the single ended output, but I have tried several different op-amps; Sparkos 3602, Sparkos 2590, Staccato, Burson, Sonic Imagery. The sound with Sparkos 2590 is just great, surprisingly big upgrade over the 3602. Now after watching your review I think I need to try a linear power supply!
Any suggestions on a LPS outside of the one he linked, let us know!
Thanks for sharing.
Quick question
Are you using the dac with headphones or speakers ?
Is the riser needed tò install the S2590?
Transparent and awesome reviewer!🤘🏾
Great review, I have owned the Schiit 2/64 for just over a year. I stream Apple Music and Tidal via my PC and iPad Pro to the Bifrost 2/64 through USB. I concur with the bad recordings listening on the Bifrost 2/64, so much I am thinking about looking for a new DAC. Great recordings sound great with the Bifrost 2/64 and then I want to keep it. I am using a Schiit Folkvangr (tube) amp with Mullard E88CC tubes. My headphones are the Senn HD650 and Denon AH-D9200.
I used to have the BF2 (OG), sold it, went through other dacs, and ultimately ended up deciding on the BF2/64 as my desktop DAC. It's just "right" as an all-rounder.
However, my Yggdrasil on my main setup is my favorite DAC of all time.
Another thought provoking video! There is so much more to 'enjoying the music' than I once imagined...(little sigh).
Wow quite the review well done!
Great video! Will you get the chance to try out the 4499 version? Heard amazing things on other channels
I tried the SS3602 and like the SS2590 better - maybe be worth trying as well- its what I now use on by 3 amps (Burson Sololist 3XGT x6 ss2590 and my two seperate Ray Samuels Apache (4x 2590 each amp) - I tried every single op amp worthy and the 2590's was tops
Good info. Thanks for sharing
@@wavetheorysoundAllow me to ask you: where did you get or from whom did you order the 2590's? TIA
thank you awsome review
fyi there is a bit of noise @ 46:25 it might startle you if listening through sensitive gear
I love the design!
Nice one man. I have a Geshelli Archel 3 Pro Amp coming soon(I hope). I'm all set with a Gustard A26 DAC. I'd be curious what you think of the Schiit SYN. Got one for Gaming/Movies and it surprised me in a good way. Surround Sound FTW
Nice on the A26! I just got the Gustard P26 and put 2 SparkosLabs SS2590 dual pros in it. I have the J2 with the new AKM4499EX coming soon... That will also have the SS2590's in it on the balanced end.
But that A26.. Man! dual 4499EX! Ah to dream...
I concur with almost everything you report, on this Geshelli J2S DAC. And if you are so inclined, you can use the top-of-the-line Sparkos SS2590 dual mono unit on the single ended socket. And boy oh boy the quality takes another big jump up.
I am using a 50W 12V LPS *and* I am using a Noise Nuke (DC noise filter and capacitance DIY unit), and it completely outperforms the other DACs I have - the Ares II with 12th Anniversary update, and Bifrost 2/64. I am of the opinion that the Bifrost 2/64 is brittle/bright in my system, whereas the J2S is far more revealing of the recording.
Interesting thing is Geshelli is using the SS2590 for their Archel 3 Pro amp, I wonder why they ar not using it for J2S DAC.
@@hdsarma The SS2590 is physically much larger, and it's a mono op-amp. The SS2590 can be put into a dual mono DIP8 package - and that's what I am using in the single ended RCA socket of my J2S DACs.
They simple won't fit in the balanced XLR sockets. If they reworked the circuit board, it could happen.
@@NeilBlanchard How is the single-ended (RCA) output with just the Sparkos SS3602 OPA in terms of sound quality?
@@TheDarius1968 It is quite excellent. Especially if you use the linear power supply.
Thanks for the added info, Neal.
thank you for the review no joke im about to bite the bullet on one of these haha you have enlightened me fr fr
Did you use the AK 4493 or AK4499?
If i dont use XLR, will that affect the sound via RCA if i choose free OPamp in XLR? Thanks
Using Sparkos ss2590 op amp in the single ended brings the J2S 4493 to a whole nother level. However a linear power supply is needed. This is my configuration
Well done!!!
amirm from audiosciencereview did some measurements to this DAC and wrote:
"I am sure the J2 sounds good but as objective results go, it is just not keeping up with the competition"
Audio Science Review? That site sucks! "All DACS sound the same, and if you disagree, you are imagining things". They actually think measurements = sound quality (to an extent, sure, but most of the "low measurements" they come up with are beyond human hearing and have nothing to do with how it sounds. I joined there a month and the regulars are as bad as AVS Forums. Both are filled with poor hearing people who attacks anyone who does not think with the hive mentality.
Great and thorough review. Thanks. I have a j2s with sparkos in the single ended out with a 50w lps. Do you feel i need to add sparkos in the balanced end to make this configuration fully competitive with the bifrost 2 64? The lps is still being broken in. It really adds depth and soundstage but does emphasize the upper mids compared to the stock ps in my opinion. Your thoughts?
Is it the akm 4493 version?
Also, how might you compare the single ended BF2 against the single ended J2?
Dude, I love your shameless self-promotion part. Great review!
I'm Syrry if you used only a balanced exit you need only two OpAmp correct ???
Geshelli labs J2S (AKM4493) vs Schiit Modi multibit 2
I'm looking for a recommendation between these 2 DACs. I'm wanting something with good dynamics/slam/impact with a good sound stage. For me the music needs to be engaging and fun.
For reference, I have a Schiit modi 3 and love it ( I just want more of it). For me, it smokes the Audio GD R2R-11 (the top end not resolving) and the SMSL D6S (sounds clean, but music isn't fun to listen to).
The new modi multibit 2 seems like it may give me a good soundstage and more of the "fun" I'm looking for, while I've heard the J2S (basic) is really engaging and impactful, too.
What do you think?
I have heard JNOG2 is the best DAC "ever", and then I heard a few say they liked the Modi Multibit 2 better than it by far. I personally think multibit/R2R DACS sound much better than Delta-sigma, they sound more analog and the individual instruments have more meat on them. It is akin to records compared to CD. That is compounded by the fact most Chi-Fi DACS are shooting for astronomically low distortion and high SNR, but that is also why a lot of them tend to sound sterile. I ordered a JNOG2 socketed, decked out, but I am actually thinking of going with a Modi Multibit 2 or used Bifrost 2 (or 1 if not able to find).
Can you add the new Emotiva DAC to the mid grade roundup comparison video?
You can use ANY super noisy USB output you want, you just have to buy a little device that splits the USB data signal from the USB power, I have one and it eliminated 100% of the noise that was present with my khadas tone board. Most DACs get their power from the USB, including the khadas, so this little data/power splitting device also has a separate power input, which can be fed with a cell phone charger or whatever 5v supply you want to use, and then that much cleaner power without any influence from the computer is sent along with the data to the DAC. Since the J2 has it's own separate 12v input, this part might not even be necessary and perhaps it only needs the data input.
Any knowledge of Usb sound quality from an older Macbook Pro - would this be clean enough to work with the J2S?
Things are getting a bit confusing with opamps first it's the amplifier now swapping opamps is becoming dac thing. So now do you have to have the same opamps all through your system? If my dac has sparkos and my amp does not am I wasting money buying the j2 with sparkos.
Excellent question. I have wondered the same. If you had only one set of Sparkos amps, wouldn’t you get much more benefit by deploying them downstream in the signal path…like in the amp?
It's not a dissimilar idea in either amp or dac. The output level coming out of the DAC chip is usually very low so a small amplifier circuit becomes part of the output stage so that the output can be amplified to 4v (for balanced) or 2v (for single ended). An op-amp - which means operational amplifier - is one way to do said amplification. In the power amplifier op-amps can be used to take that 4v or 2v signal and make it even larger in magnitude. It's worthwhile to improve op-amp quality anywhere there is one. At the DAC level it's important because any details lost due to poor op-amp performance will simply vanish. No matter how good an amplifier is, it cannot add back in lost signal information.
@@wavetheorysoundso opamp upgrades would be needed in external phono preamps too ? Or you dont lose any infos analog to analog?
Adding LPS to this DAC should upgrads sound quality qs much as opamp switching. I have tried cheap LPS from AliExpress first and I was not impressed. It made little better base but sounds became little dull, not that upgraded sounds I expected. So I added my custom made LPS made with audiophile quality capacitors and increased capacitance with custom made power cable and usb cable and upgraded sounds I get was really expected. Extra bottom end, wider sound stage, more texture, bigger dynamic, every aspect of the sound quality was improved. It really made cheap Wiim pro to next level streamer.
Connecting it to a smartphone (Via USB Adapter. I am assuming that it is okay to do that), will reduce the noise and improve the sound quality?
Thanks
Awesome review! Have you tried the AKM 4499 chip yet? I’ve heard that chip puts the DAC in a league of its own. Thanks!
Does the Bifrost 2/64 unison USB interface overcome all of the short comings mentioned with the J2S USB inputs?
For the most part yes. It has pretty solid galvanic isolation.
Great video, lots of useful information. One question, currently I would have to use the RCA (Unbalanced) Outputs. Understanding the balanced out puts have a better output compared to the RCA output. Would a balanced to RCA adapter help me?
Using my J2S with SS2590 on the single ended output, connected to the EverSolo DMP-A6 via USB. Other than no DSD as the EverSolo does not yet support the Amanero USB module properly, but it sounds amazing. It is really hard to A/B test opamps as it take quite a bit of time to take them out/put them back in, but I am very happy with the setup.
Hi! Are you talking about dual SS2590 Pro or single one? If dual, does it fit easily in the box? Thanks in advance! Regards,Alex.
@@alexanderignatyev8175 Yes the dual SS2590 will fit. Just make sure you order the adapter. Sparkos was super helpful.
Hello, what is your setting from your eversolo to your Gishelle dac, can't get any sound from the dac🙄
@@anthony2010707 I was just using it a couple of hours ago. It was set to internal player for source (using Roon or local files) and USB out.
Is the highest version J2S, with the most powerful components, is close to the image of Chodrd Qutest?
The Chord served me very well for 5 years, but it did not have an XLR, and the instruments sounded a bit "too thin", lacked mass, and therefore lost their naturalness.
So you spoke to Geshelli about the review before they shipped the unit?
Would love to hear your opinion on using the Sparkos 2590 Pro Op Amp in the single-ended output. 😉 Again, another modular option for the J2s.
Hi,
For testing it's full potential, you should review it with the dual AK4499EX + AK4191EQ DAC chips / Flagship DACs...
By the way, these also in the new version - "JNOG3"
Thank you
Wow! ESD, anyone? Static, such as from a cloth, can damage electronic parts. Also, a ground tether (resistive) can help prevent ESD damage.
Is there a difference between XLR and RCA outputs?
Did you get the new AKM4499EX version or is this just from the website?
If I use a Wiim Pro and connect it to the j2s and then to my amp. How can I then control the volumen on the Wiim pro with my phone using airplay 2?
Yes. In audio settings on the WIIM PRO go to Fixed volume output and unclick it. Then you can control the volume from your mobile device
Thank you
I'd like to see what their take on a high-end DAC would be.
They have one called Dayzee. Starts at $1200. Dual 4499EX afaik, and a custom wood case.
I love my RME ADI dac....how would a fully loaded Jnog ~$830??
I'm just curious about the whole ideal of a 'noisy' PC USB. Surely, it's a digital bitstream? Would I still have the same issues if I used the SPDIF-Out on my sound card?
It is a digital bitstream, correct. The trick is the 1s and 0s of the digital bitstream have to be transmitted as modulations of an electromagnetic wave. What travels along the usb wire is an EM wave shaped to represent the 1s and 0s. Being an EM wave makes it susceptible to other sources EM interference. Computers have dozens of electrical circuits sending tiny little currents every which way and lots of little individual power supplies providing energy to all those little circuits. Those circuits create their own EM fields which can start to mess with how the audio 1s and 0s traveling as EM waves themselves move about. All those power supplies often cause their own problems as well because they tend to not be filtered out of other EM signals very well. So what happens is the wave carrying the representations of the 1s and 0s just starts to get messy because it's traveling through a lot of junk. Our ears interpret this as a less clean or "noisy" signal. Using a fiber optic output helps reduce some of the noise but will only go so far. SPDIF also has its own drawbacks in terms of bandwidth and what kinds of signals it can carry. Does this help?
With the Sparkos SS3602 OPA on the unbalanced output, how much of an improvement is offered to someone for whom connection via RCA cables is the only option?
It's an improvement over the TIs to be sure. But if you really need SE I'd save a bit more and look into Soekris dac1421. I have a review for that out as well.
Hi,
The "LHY Audio LPS25VA" costs less.
Thank you
I have an Ares II with the latest 12th anniversary firmware update. Is it worth upgrading to the Geshelli?
That’s what I’m researching UA-cam for.
Long-winded review. The OPAMP install guide should have been its own video. We just wanna know if you like the DAC in its different configurations.
I have the j2s with the Sparkos 3602 in the single ended output. It’s brilliant. Would I gain much by using the 3602 in balanced? My preamp is a freya noval which accepts balanced. Your review is very informative and accurate imo. Interested to see your review of the j2s 4499
I have an old preamp which uses only RCA. I think we have to ask that question to Geshelli company.
Great review, how does it compare to Weiss Dac?
I think Schiit is more advanced in their usb output right? It is too bad that Geshelli needs a proper clean USB output. I use my PC as a source and it is definitely dirty and noisy.
I used Modi Multibit 2 and haven't find any problem with noisy background until now. Perhaps if I use a cleaner USB output there will be a difference even with my Modi Multibit 2. Who knows, never tried before.
Yes the Schiit USB is galvanically isolated.
Is this a headphone only DAC or could I use this in a 2 channel system with floor standers?
Either. Any standalone dac can feed either a head amp or speaker amp.
As a G111 MKII owner, which headphones excelled with that G111 and J2 combo?
That combo is not particularly headphone picky. Pretty much everything I tried that wasn't a super-inefficient planar (think HE6 series) sounded really good.
i can't seem to find the highest quality that J2 can provide. Will it do 24/192?
Sampling rate is not necessarily tied to quality. Lot's goes into that. But, the Geshelli dacs typically handle up to 24/192 via their spdif inputs and dsd and up to 32/384 via usb.
I saw a video where the presenter used needle- nosed pliers that were curved at the end to remove opampsThey might be called bent nose. I haven't tried them yet but they look like they would be a great aid.
I've had my 2/64 for a month now and honestly don't like what it does to female vocals. Something in the mids is off to me with the way the burrito filter highlights certain parts of the frequency. But I'm 100% single ended, is there any other DAC out there sub $500 that I should be looking at? I have a Mimby, and Mimby 2 doesn't feel like much of an upgrade if it has the same 2/64 tonality.
Oof, quality SE dacs under $500 are rare. The Modi Multibit 2 is solid but probably similar to your issues with the latest Bifrost. If $500 is a hard ceiling I'd search around for used Soekris dac1421. A used Chord Mojo 2 may be an option but I haven't heard that one yet.
@@wavetheorysoundI need multiple dacs so budget can't stretch that much. I might get the EF400 for the office since its USB only, a J2 for the tv and definitely leaning Soekris for 2.0 channel music/tube on Sennheisers. I listened to the BF2 last night and preferred NOS apart from the occasional high frequency zinguer. The filter emphasizes sounds too much for me.
I wonder if anyone has tried the sparkos ss2590, an op-amp step up. I also agree on the improvements you've mentioned but funnily enough some sites will measure no difference and say there should be no difference.
I also wonder why Geshelli is not using the higer end SS2590, price difference is not much, but its bit bigger though in the dual configuration.
I have used the SS2590 on the single ended RCA output - and it is wonderful! It may require a single riser (Sparkos sells these for $2), as it is snug. If you also have the SS3602 on the balanced XLR sockets, you need a 2nd riser for the SS2590, to raise it up higher.
@@NeilBlanchard you can get dual ss2590 from sparkos, select the option where you get them to solder the adaptor on. I have 6 for my soloist GT and it's nowhere near the same amp anymore.
@@RyuMasterEX Yes - understood. I have several of these in Geshelli DACs, and in my AkitikA PR-102 preamp. They sound *fantastic*!
@@NeilBlanchard Hello sir! is there any difference in sound between XLR and RCA? I have an old preamp wich uses only RCA...
Replacing an op amp is more likely to add distortion as the DAC is designed around the opamp inside. Most people don't have enough electronic knowledge to do this. Making a difference doesn't mean better, Every mixing desk in the audio chain has gone through hundreds of NE5532. So you put in an unsuitable OPamp in a little box in your living room, you hear some high frequency noise and think it sounds better because you paid more for it, Unless you can test an improvement you are probably making things worse.
This is crazy, Tube amps use "Tube rolling" and now Solid state has made up "Op-amps rolling"?!!!
This is getting out of hand and it's amazing people still believe on this bull. What abaout some blind listening test and some high resolution listening samples and not just talking as most of these UA-cam so called "audio experts or Audio-Phools" do.
This is a never ending dilemma with Audio, from cables, Dacs, power amps, power supplies, pre-amps, speakers, tubes and now "Op-Amps"
🤣😂
I've come to the conclusion that differences aren't equivalent to primacy.
What is an op amp?
AK4493 vs AK4499?
I've watched quite a bit of this video so far and it's been very good. I will be disappointed though, if the only listening that was done was through headphones. It's my understanding that it's not possible to discern everything that a DAC like this can provide through headphones. Maybe I missed something that said that this review was
only going to be using headphones and not speakers?
$300 power supply upgrade!? Jeesh
Holy Cow! Was excited at first, but now I need a $285 Power Supply and a $1k streamer to clean up the USB signal. Please help me at least with a cheaper way to provide low noise USB input if music initially starting with my PC. Thanks! (New subscriber today)
Thanks for the sub! If you need USB you're better off using a laptop than a big desktop PC. My Surface Pro 4 is reasonably quiet and does a nice job. Unfortunately those beefy GPUs in gaming computers that give us wonderful graphical fidelity and speed create horrible amounts of singal noise that bleed into audio signals.
@@wavetheorysound thanks for the info, you are 100% about the graphics cards. Was wondering whether a raspberry pi or a NUC mini pc would provide cleaner USB. Thanks again!
@@EvenHarmonics they will.
Hey wave can't wait to get mine fully loaded but I bought it before I seen this video, Ill call Sherie and see if I can get you your afiliate link pay through me.
You ca buy a USB jitter cleaner for about $100. or less.
It’s not a DAC that can easily blend in with the look of a modern system.
Disappointing product page where you can't visualise the colour schemes / glass.
They have a viewer in another part of their website.
No dust cap on the SPDIF connections. 😮
It ships with them. I just couldn't find it just before filming. Of course it slid under another dac and I found it when I went to swap out the next piece for review 😅
It's possible that geshelli may have received some fake 1612 op amps. Just a guess.
"Big jump forward" about difference between stocked OP and Sparkos OP. Well lol.
In reality it is gonna be tiny tiny difference
Nice review, was really informative!
But you might wanna be more gentle to microelectronics and not put your fingers all over the pcb, and circuits 😂😂😂 you gave anxiety
There must be QC issues with these DACs. They should all have a flat frequency response.
...........man way too many config options.......only thing missing on the j2s is the cheese............bifrost = done...........
Just review a stock J2, spending an arm a leg should improve the sound as it should...by the time you make it sound better you would have spent hundred$ more...just get a chord mojo2 or an smsl do400 ex
Most DACs can handle USB from PCs. The J2 must be a bit rubbish.
The SU1 DAC is much cheaper and probably almost as good.
Appreciate the effort man but man… this video is almost an hour long. Takes too long to get to the point.
TLDW
Wow, overpriced LPS
Why (2xTOSLINK, 2xCOAX), standard? Overkill. USB should be included standard.
Says who?
@@madcrabber1113 Great comment.
I think that the 2xTOSLINK, 2xCOAX is where it started - deliberate two front and two rear, and I guess by now a legacy trademark of the company. The USB option was added later, and why would they want to make everybody pay for it. Having options is great.