I love your videos. This one in particular was very helpful when I was trying to address some 'lag' with Tino Guo's Legato Cello. Quick question: I am very new to this and keyboard is not my first instrument so when I compose I lack the dexterity to create complex 'runs' in real time and often need to rely on step recording by entering notes into Logic's Piano Roll. Obviously this is not ideal but it often helps me get the idea across. Since you appear to be a Cinema Studio Strings user can you suggest what might be the best general articulation to use when creating violin or cello runs from within the Piano Roll manually? Thank you in advance for whatever you can offer and keep up the great work!
Hey, thank you for the comment! Caught me at a good time. CSS generally recommends using the marcato legato articulation for runs. It offers the most dexterity and clarity. Just make sure the notes are overlapping and you have the right delay offset!
@@DIDCHOI My hero! Thank you so much for getting back to me so quickly. This is very helpful. Logic has that choice: 'Trim note end to Selected (force Legato)" which seems like it would do as you are suggesting (overlapping the notes) so I will give this a try. Thanks again.
@@PJ-ee5mcso that function (I believe) doesn’t actually make it overlap, but perfectly not overlap. I like to use that function the. Shift-option right arrow to extend the note a couple milliseconds
@@DIDCHOI Thank you for clarifying this. I will make a note of it and give it a try right away. My CSS is downloading at this very moment! As it is downloading I am watching your video about 'libraries that you regret having purchased'. I sure hope that CSS won't be one of them :)
Thannks for your video, the script doesn't work too well for me either, just worked with short notes but the legatos were all mistimed. I certainly appreciate the effort that went into creating this script but it's just not working for me.
FYI, I did not create the script hahah. I know thanos is no longer supported, and the other one I don’t like to use too much. I personally use a mix of region delays (not track delay) and manual nudging
Hahaha I now have settled on a combo of Logic’s region delay and nudging! Since a lot of my phrases stay in one or similar articulations I split the region and delay each accordingly. If anything is doesn’t fit that delay, I nudge that note or two manually within the delayed region
@@DIDCHOI I agree, grouping is more ergonomic unless it’s a specific ostinato or for layering purposes I heard we might have per note delay with MIDI 2.0 I hope they’ll figure out a way
Hi, i have no idea if what I’m saying is making any sense but I’ll give it a try. Would it be easier to make two tracks? So for example you have cellos long and cellos short. The longs would fix itself and the shorts can easily be nudged manually.
Yeah, lots of people work that way and it's totally legit. But this often leads to people writing a "shorts" part and "longs" part, and avoiding writing flexible lines that switch between different note lengths on a note-per-note basis. So my method allows total flexibility in terms of what articulation I want for what note. It does mean a little more work on the back end with delay compensation
Hello. Thanks for this. Curious ! I just downloaded "Thanos" and the script is written entirely horizontally on line 16 of the script! (No such problem in LOgic ' scripter with my other scripts). I am on Mojave and Logic 10.4.4. So, when I activate this script I no longer have any cinematic studio sound ... Could you ( or someone who uses this script without any problem) check the good script ans send me a copy. I would be infinitely grateful to him.
I’m trying to see if the Control Panel works in the free player as you asked. I’m not all that great in Kontakt, but it seems I can only find it in the KSP User menu when it’s placed in the Multiscript folder. Does that seem right?
more companies should update their products with that same thing toyko scoring strings has so you don't have to set offset or sit there figuring them out.. spitfire woodwinds i tried to figure it out and the short notes much longer offsets than the long notes, I zoom right in on the wav file to find my offsets. it's a pain for sure to do. There is a zoom tool in reaper where you can zoom extremely close in on the Wav file, so what i do is make a whole note, drag it to bar 0, first of the track, then render to an audio stem and look at the stem how far the offset is. The guy who made our articulation program for Reaper is still tryin to get the programming working so offets are built in with articulation triggers, eventually it will be implemented. it is called Reaticulate, it is very nice compared to cubase articulation management... 500ms is a really big offset number.. I was thinking of picking up this library but now am uncertain.
Hoping Logic also allows offsets by articulation soon. But yeah, until then, just zoom right in and find a good offset, or reference David Kudell's offset guide on VI Control
I prefer practicing with the metronome to achieve a natural feel! I like playing my information using mod wheel in real-time! You can’t beat the results! All this work you’re doing would destroy my inspiration to create music.
That’s what I do! Haha, play it in with all automation (1, 11). Then if you want it more accurate, you can nudge values to perfection or not. It can all be done after the inspiration phase.
Update… I can load up control panel in the standalone Free Kontakt Player, but for the life of me can’t access user presets when in Logic, so maybe it is a free version issue. If anyone has success, please let me know.
Well you have to think about the actual samples. There is always going to be material before the actual transient. To have a perfectly playable sample, you need to chop out all that pre-transient attack. Legatos are impossible to achieve without sample delay. Sample libraries face the dilemma: 1. great natural sound with some delay 2. Playable instrument with slightly unnatural attacks and transitions. Some, like spitfire, try to do both, but it results in all the samples having inconsistent attack offsets, which is unplayable and uneditable for me. CSS made the compromise of having a consistent offset, even if it means a slightly bigger than necessary delay for some of the samples. The third solution would be to script a function that handles the delays automatically by adding inherent plugin latency and using lookahead functions. I believe MSS and Pacific had these functions? (Don’t quote me). Which I think is the next step for new libraries coming out. I think CSS would likely implement something like that in the distant future
I have the same problem with the first notes... actually that keeps me from using it at the moment :/ @D.I.D. CHOI Have you heard something new about that issue yet?
@@DIDCHOI I have a wild guess: For me, the problem happens if I stop playback somewhere in between a legato phrase. Then, if the last note that the CSS Panel registered was a Legato note (you can see it in the Panel), and if I start the phrase again, CSS Panel does not get it is a new first note, it thinks the first note of the phrase is also a note that happens after a legato transition... and uses a different delay, which causes the note to play early. The problem is gone if I play a short articulation in between and then jump back to the legato phrase... because then the Panel Script thinks its the first note of the phrase...
@@LukasLindner oh right with the CSS panel. My apologies I didn’t quite get which part of the video you meant. But no I don’t have any updates on that since I don’t use the CSS panel anymore. I am using the final method with manual nudging by articulation
@@DIDCHOI You mentioned it as a result of the 2nd script you talked about - I think its the CSS control panel script. Is it still leaving the first note out of time when the script is used?
I love your videos. This one in particular was very helpful when I was trying to address some 'lag' with Tino Guo's Legato Cello. Quick question: I am very new to this and keyboard is not my first instrument so when I compose I lack the dexterity to create complex 'runs' in real time and often need to rely on step recording by entering notes into Logic's Piano Roll. Obviously this is not ideal but it often helps me get the idea across. Since you appear to be a Cinema Studio Strings user can you suggest what might be the best general articulation to use when creating violin or cello runs from within the Piano Roll manually? Thank you in advance for whatever you can offer and keep up the great work!
Hey, thank you for the comment! Caught me at a good time.
CSS generally recommends using the marcato legato articulation for runs. It offers the most dexterity and clarity. Just make sure the notes are overlapping and you have the right delay offset!
@@DIDCHOI My hero! Thank you so much for getting back to me so quickly. This is very helpful. Logic has that choice: 'Trim note end to Selected (force Legato)" which seems like it would do as you are suggesting (overlapping the notes) so I will give this a try. Thanks again.
@@PJ-ee5mcso that function (I believe) doesn’t actually make it overlap, but perfectly not overlap. I like to use that function the. Shift-option right arrow to extend the note a couple milliseconds
@@DIDCHOI Thank you for clarifying this. I will make a note of it and give it a try right away. My CSS is downloading at this very moment! As it is downloading I am watching your video about 'libraries that you regret having purchased'. I sure hope that CSS won't be one of them :)
Thannks for your video, the script doesn't work too well for me either, just worked with short notes but the legatos were all mistimed. I certainly appreciate the effort that went into creating this script but it's just not working for me.
FYI, I did not create the script hahah. I know thanos is no longer supported, and the other one I don’t like to use too much. I personally use a mix of region delays (not track delay) and manual nudging
항상 고민이네요. 어찌하면 이 악기를 더 잘 사용할 수 있을지..ㅎㅎ
컨트롤 판넬을 한번 설치해보고 사용해보고 싶은데 어떻게 하면 되나요?
감사합니다! 여기로 가셔서 다운 하시면 되요: alexjevincent.co.uk/css-control-panel/
2 years after this video, on what workflow did you settle ? Still going the medieval nudge way ?
Hahaha I now have settled on a combo of Logic’s region delay and nudging!
Since a lot of my phrases stay in one or similar articulations I split the region and delay each accordingly. If anything is doesn’t fit that delay, I nudge that note or two manually within the delayed region
@@DIDCHOI you are splitting your instruments as longs and shorts?
@@bensmirmusicNo all on one track for me
@@bensmirmusicthough if I have ostinatos or a significant short part, I might separate it out, but that’s not my normal writing style
@@DIDCHOI I agree, grouping is more ergonomic unless it’s a specific ostinato or for layering purposes
I heard we might have per note delay with MIDI 2.0
I hope they’ll figure out a way
Thank you :} Where did you get the articulation sets in logic for CSS?
I use the Babylon Waves Art Conductor. Quite a good product!
Is this only for the strings or is this for all of there libraries
All! Some offset numbers might vary, but same principles apply. (longs are 100ms in other libraries right now)
Hi, i have no idea if what I’m saying is making any sense but I’ll give it a try. Would it be easier to make two tracks? So for example you have cellos long and cellos short. The longs would fix itself and the shorts can easily be nudged manually.
Yeah, lots of people work that way and it's totally legit. But this often leads to people writing a "shorts" part and "longs" part, and avoiding writing flexible lines that switch between different note lengths on a note-per-note basis. So my method allows total flexibility in terms of what articulation I want for what note. It does mean a little more work on the back end with delay compensation
@@DIDCHOI oh yea 😅 good point! 👍
Hello. Thanks for this. Curious ! I just downloaded "Thanos" and the script is written entirely horizontally on line 16 of the script! (No such problem in LOgic ' scripter with my other scripts). I am on Mojave and Logic 10.4.4. So, when I activate this script I no longer have any cinematic studio sound ... Could you ( or someone who uses this script without any problem) check the good script ans send me a copy. I would be infinitely grateful to him.
I don’t have the answer, but wanted to make sure you know that Thanos has been discontinued so it might be hard to find support
Let me know if there are any methods I have missed!
Excelent!!!
I’m trying to see if the Control Panel works in the free player as you asked. I’m not all that great in Kontakt, but it seems I can only find it in the KSP User menu when it’s placed in the Multiscript folder. Does that seem right?
I just scoot the damn midi up until it sounds right. I feel like css strings sound muddy and diffuse to me.
Could always try the close mics if it’s too diffuse. I personally like the room sound. Using the exact amount saves a lot of time too
more companies should update their products with that same thing toyko scoring strings has so you don't have to set offset or sit there figuring them out.. spitfire woodwinds i tried to figure it out and the short notes much longer offsets than the long notes, I zoom right in on the wav file to find my offsets. it's a pain for sure to do. There is a zoom tool in reaper where you can zoom extremely close in on the Wav file, so what i do is make a whole note, drag it to bar 0, first of the track, then render to an audio stem and look at the stem how far the offset is. The guy who made our articulation program for Reaper is still tryin to get the programming working so offets are built in with articulation triggers, eventually it will be implemented. it is called Reaticulate, it is very nice compared to cubase articulation management... 500ms is a really big offset number.. I was thinking of picking up this library but now am uncertain.
Hoping Logic also allows offsets by articulation soon. But yeah, until then, just zoom right in and find a good offset, or reference David Kudell's offset guide on VI Control
I prefer practicing with the metronome to achieve a natural feel! I like playing my information using mod wheel in real-time! You can’t beat the results! All this work you’re doing would destroy my inspiration to create music.
That’s what I do! Haha, play it in with all automation (1, 11).
Then if you want it more accurate, you can nudge values to perfection or not. It can all be done after the inspiration phase.
You shouldn't compensate the first note of the phrase as much as the rest. There is no legato transition to compensate for on the first note.
True, doesn’t need the same amount. But there is still attacks to the notes that need some compensation
Update… I can load up control panel in the standalone Free Kontakt Player, but for the life of me can’t access user presets when in Logic, so maybe it is a free version issue. If anyone has success, please let me know.
Interesting. Feel like it should work if it works in the stand alone, but curious
Again, my Kontakt skills are awful. I’ll ask someone what I’m doing wrong, if I am.
I can appreciate the solution, but this is absolutely absurd that you have to do this in the first place with a library this expensive.
Well you have to think about the actual samples. There is always going to be material before the actual transient.
To have a perfectly playable sample, you need to chop out all that pre-transient attack. Legatos are impossible to achieve without sample delay.
Sample libraries face the dilemma:
1. great natural sound with some delay
2. Playable instrument with slightly unnatural attacks and transitions.
Some, like spitfire, try to do both, but it results in all the samples having inconsistent attack offsets, which is unplayable and uneditable for me.
CSS made the compromise of having a consistent offset, even if it means a slightly bigger than necessary delay for some of the samples.
The third solution would be to script a function that handles the delays automatically by adding inherent plugin latency and using lookahead functions. I believe MSS and Pacific had these functions? (Don’t quote me). Which I think is the next step for new libraries coming out.
I think CSS would likely implement something like that in the distant future
I have the same problem with the first notes... actually that keeps me from using it at the moment :/
@D.I.D. CHOI Have you heard something new about that issue yet?
Here I am throwing a blank as to what the first note problem was...which means it must not be a problem for me anymore!
@@DIDCHOI I have a wild guess:
For me, the problem happens if I stop playback somewhere in between a legato phrase. Then, if the last note that the CSS Panel registered was a Legato note (you can see it in the Panel), and if I start the phrase again, CSS Panel does not get it is a new first note, it thinks the first note of the phrase is also a note that happens after a legato transition... and uses a different delay, which causes the note to play early. The problem is gone if I play a short articulation in between and then jump back to the legato phrase... because then the Panel Script thinks its the first note of the phrase...
@@LukasLindner oh right with the CSS panel. My apologies I didn’t quite get which part of the video you meant. But no I don’t have any updates on that since I don’t use the CSS panel anymore. I am using the final method with manual nudging by articulation
@@DIDCHOI yeah sorry, my bad, I kind of didn't mentioned what I am talking about :)
@@DIDCHOI You mentioned it as a result of the 2nd script you talked about - I think its the CSS control panel script. Is it still leaving the first note out of time when the script is used?