Fusion Energy: Hype or The Future?
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- Опубліковано 19 чер 2024
- My video on thorium reactors: • Thorium - The Future o...
In this episode we take a look at the good the bad and the ugly of fusion energy. Is it as promised? And if not, what are the major issues?
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Producer: Dagogo Altraide
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Animator: @ThenWhatHappens - Наука та технологія
A couple of corrections:
At 3:13 I said the processes the wrong way round. The FISSION part is only there to aid the FUSION part. And ICF is Inertial Confinement Fusion not Internal. Sorry about that.
No worries! 🖒
99% wouldnt have noticed
I was just going to comment that you kept saying it wrong.
Yep, it takes the energy of a fission bomb to produce a fusion reaction. That is why fusion has been so difficult to do.
Ironically you didn't mention *cold* fusion in this video
my favorite part about generating electricity is that we're always just trying to find the most complicated and efficient way to boil water to turn a turbine.
"Our best minds are working to harness the power of the stars and the universe.... to boil water"
Introducing solarpanels
Honestly I remember when I found out that's all a nuclear reactor does and I was like wtf lol
Exactly 👌🏾
The only reason I find helion so cool is they aren't generating electricity with a turbine, kinda neat
"And yes, I finally made a video about fusion in this channel, ColdFusion"
Another major milestone.
But it's not cold at all. It should be hot and make water boil well for more steam energy
@@cihadturhan Cold boiling water... It's possible.
Next up, he should do a video about cold fusion.
@@dwaynepeters4520 sadly, "cold fusion" is a debunked science.
@@alveolate I know that. That's why ColdFusion should do a video on it. He does videos on financial frauds all the time, so why not a scientific fraud?
I strongly recommend everybody to take a look at the video that Improbable Matter made in response to the Real Engineering one about Helion. He has worked in the field and can explain all the challenges of fusion in great detail.
What happened on december 5th was historic, in the sense that is the first time we extract more energy that we put in without using an A-bomb as a trigger (we cannot ignore that we had been building fusion reactors that work as insteded since the 50's, they are just single-use only). But if we write down a list of the engineering problems we still have to manage that we don't know how to solve, it's amazing how astronomically far we are from a comercial fusion reactor. I'm sorry guys, but apparently we are going to get out of this energy-poverty well with fission, and the sooner we start the better...
I agree, its just all the horror stories of nuclear disasters have shook everyone, ya no you learn from your mistakes untill you perfect it and its flawless, fission is the way to go
lol energy poverty, in an age where people drive fossile fueled cars for sports, leisure and status
@@FW2F 1. not everyone, matter in fact most not
2. could refer to the incrasing cost of electricity which definatelly can make one poor
3. it's relative, depends on what you take as a base, the past or the possible future
Yep.
But fusion keeps soaring up the money we could have used for Thorium Breeders since 1965.
@@jimrobcoyle To be honest, in case of sufficient political will, we could spend on the development of both. As you get older (and hopefully wiser) what you will notice in politics, is that it's not like there isn't enough money, it's just isn't enough money for useful beneficial stuff.
They always seem to find money to bail out banks subsidize the fossil fuel industry or bomb distant countries to dust though.
"The power of the sun in the palm of my hands" Never thought that would become a reality.
Don't worry, it won't.
Look at the apparatus that Livermore used to achieve more out than in.
How do you take that heat out of that tiny spot to boil water?
Imagination is more important than just having knowledge! 🧠
@@jimrobcoyle You don't boil water. You create electricity directly. Look up Helion. Real Engineering released a great video about them and their fusion tech in December.
our sun and ALL suns are NOT a fusion reaction They are an electrical plasma z-pinch therefore this tech is just another waste / meant to distract while BIG energy Big money Corps keep robbing you and I for electric power. IT SHOULD BE FREE they know this ! they've know this since Tesla, 100 + years ago
some portion of the power of the sun is in you, on the palm of your hand, since you were born. They are also the reason you were born.
While I'm optimistic that we have made big steps with fusion, things like Helion aren't all they're cracked up to be. There's a good response video by Improbable Matter which strongly suggests Helion are really over-selling themselves for investment and are banking on a less efficient reaction with big question marks over scalability and danger.
Came here to say this. For every fusion project being hyped, there are is a litany of questions they don't want asked, and major caveats they hide from investors and politicians.
To me, this all smells funny, and I think we need some investigative journalists to follow the money and find out who's getting rich scamming investors and nations on these false promises.
Yea I was hoping this video would have some answers to that video but it's just a repeat of the previous video.. I hope this channel is not financially linked to Helion somehow..
I have a friend who is a plasma physicist, and he basically told me the same thing. He explained to me that Helion isn’t really considered legit in the fusion scientific community, and that all they are really selling is hype so they can make money on investments.
@@KellinKingdomit's so disappointing that this channel is promoting such a thing 😔
@@NathanaelNewton I can't speak for the guys at real engineering, but I'd guess coldfusion just saw it and thought it was good - they aren't an expert in the field after all
"Before everyone celebrates, there's a lot to be done" is practically the motto of human scientific endeavour. 👍
There always will be a lot to be done. Reality is infinitely complex, so every solution to a problem will always present more problems.
Let me add that this goes to basically any kind of exploration or innovation. Implementation can be time taking and even boring but is essential for achieving desirable results.
I visited JET (Joint European Torus) in '96 at a physics tour in England among other things. We were shown the torus (Magnetic Confinement Fusion) and the facility. They told us that they had to phone the power-stations in advance in the area when an experiment was due or else the entire area (a small city and two or three suburbs) went without power. JET used that much power! And it's rather small in comparison to what it uses; kind of a small living room or an apartment with a single room.
Edit: I forgot to say, that the power-stations was able to turn up to full power and THEN the experiment could take place without any bother.
Ive lived in the town near JET since 2001, I can't remember them ever causing a blackout. So they must be pretty good at organising with the power grid, even moreso now as the nearby coal plant has been decommissioned.
@@borzoi2607 We were told that they at that time never had caused a blackout. However, they were close to causing one at one time because one power plant had mistaken the time by - I think - 1 hour. I believe that the chief of that power plant called again to make sure.
But I could be mistaken. It's so long ago.
I went there as well in 2015 or 2016, what an amazing place! I believe they told us that they now use three huge flywheels that are slowly spun up using grid power. Then, when running experiments, they can utilize those to not destabilize the grid (as much)!
You'll find that quite a lot of large factories need to notify their local network operators when they're planning on switching on machines, i recently visited a concrete factory in england which did the same thing, crazy amounts of power used at these big facilities. It's pretty cool (and a little scary lol) :)
Great video Dagogo as always, thank you! btw, you mixed up the fusion/fission relationship - the initial fission reaction powers the fusion reaction which is the majority of the explosive power.
Good catch.
Yup.....
That's just what happens when you're running low on energy. Unlike the video subject, I think Dagogo's powered by coffee and sleep. Must be running low.
Yea, you are right. I also thought it was odd when I heard that, and thought "Why would the Hydrogen Bomb be named after the relatively minor support role the hydrogen fusion actually provides?"
If I'm not mistaken, the main source of Tritium is Fission Reactors. So, ironically, in order to scale up Fusion we may need to scale up the number of Fission Reactors, with all of the problems associated with that. Unless we can find a different isotope to use in the fusion we're going to need to have nuclear power in a lot more places. Apart from the dangers and mess they make, they are also very expensive, slow and complex to build.
Fusion is the energy of the future… and always will be
Probably.
There's a Very slim chance it's not
ColdFusion has finally made a video on Fusion. And I remember the days when the channel was called "ColdFustion". Makes me feel a bit old. 😁
This sounds like it will take a century to become commercially viable.
"fusion energy is about 50 years from becoming viable" that's what they said in 1950.
It will never be affordable. Any electricity made from such complex machines will be so expensive as to be useless. And in a century, the population of this planet will be about half of what it is today, and older.
It will still be the fastest to mature...
no.. just 25 years out..
it's been "25 years out" for 50 odd years now.
Something, something, exponential graph
I love these videos and the music - Im amazed how talented Cold Fusion is!
Yeah those videos are really entertaining and meantime relaxing
bots
@@Voornoek *NPCs
If you ignore the fact that they actually put more energy in than they got out of it, they got more energy out of it than they put into it.
Exactly! While the reaction gave off more energy (3.15 megajoules) than had been injected directly into the fuel by the laser (2.05 megajoules). it took 400 megajoules to power the entire laser device during the experiment. That means it lost about 99% of the power it consumed.
@@phasorthunder1157 exactly, it's a joke. I don't get why everyone was so hyped up about it when the news broke
@@phasorthunder1157 And one should not forget that we're talking about 1MJ of surplus. One kWh is 3.6MJ and now think about how little energy that is. For each shot they have to manufacture one of those insanly precice pellets. Even if everything worked perfectly: The price of manufacturing the pelltes alone makes this insanely expensive. So among all the fusion approaches (each has pros and cons) I'd rate this the most unrealistic to ever become economicly viable...
Disappointment that Cold Fusion didn't explain this more clearly
Obviously but this groundbreaking bc it provides a proof of concept that may be used for future ignition schemes and allows scientists to probe a completely different regime of operation called a burning plasma that introduces another layer of complexity that's never been reached. Also youre assuming linear growth but once ignition is reached small improvements in the efficiency of the burn will cause exponential increases in energy output
Pretty sure they did end up putting more energy into it, id suggest you look further into it
At a grid scale yes. From the perspective of the fuel no
Yeah, the energy that went into the lasers was 300 times more than the energy that came out of the fuel pallet
4:10 Essentially fusion is just two nuclei falling for each other then giving off that spark. Ah yes it's chemistry at peak performance...
No, it's not chemistry, it's nuclear physics. Chemistry deals exclusively with electrons.
@@jonahansen r/woooooosh
all interactions produce more than the sum of their parts
The power of the sun, in the palm of my hand!
Channel name checks out!
Thanks for all the great videos.
4:13 “The electrons say sayounara” with the most chill voice 😂
Dagogo: "For proof of it, just look up at the sky in the daytime"
Viewer: "AHHHHH my eyes!!!"
Lesson learned? Don't look at the sun!
I know some people who it no problem lol
They may become the closest the thing to Icarus that I know one day
Hello Dagogo! Love from A Briton and Nigerian living in Germany. We love your channel and all you do. Proud of you keep it up.
Thank you for the provided information to us the mass and for keeping us updated.
Great episode as always,keep up the GREAT work
Thank you Dagogo for the most SOBER video yet about this topic. Well done! ❤
Is he usually drunk??
I love this kind of optimistic better future videos, we're on the edge of new era breakthrough and I can't wait to see how this pans out.
❤I like that you like everything about being optimistic. Pass it on! This is what energy is anyhow!❤
Wouldn't realistic be better? If you want to feel good about the future, try opioids.
@@jonahansen lame take. We need more optimism nowadays tbh. Everyone is so pessimistic about everything.
Or before nuclear war happened and destroy our civilization
We are not. They spent hundreds of megajoules into the laser to even start the fusion and got back 3 mJ back. But everyone conveniently forgets that part or simply glosses over it. Optimism is good but blind optimism isn't. Unless we find some way to create extreme gravity (which is equally unfeasible), we won't get net gain.
There are fundamental limitations here. You cannot just expect to throw more money and scientists at it and expect to overcome those limits.
You can mark my words. Even 20 years from now, you won't see true net gain.
Loved that you mentioned the fusion part at the end
Really glad you covered what Helion is doing in this video. Assuming what they have is real (and I hope it is) I'm hopeful the way they are doing direct energy capture with electromagnets is the winner here. Cheers and please keep up the amazing work.
Also did you see "Improbable Matter" on the Helion company?! VERY interesting and grounded stuff on this channel on the whole fusion game!!
VERY strange stuff
I've been learning Nuclear Physics the past week. The day humanity cracks fusion... I hope I live to see it.
Good job on a clear and unbiased presentation Dogogo! Bravo 👏🏼
Yessss I was wondering if you were going to mention that finally did a fusion video, coldfusion!
There is a lie already in the very 1st minute. They didn't get more energy out than what they put in. They forgot to mention the energy used for running the whole fusion😂😂
Except that in a large-scale commercial application, after this tech is 'perfected', the initial energy required will be a one-time thing and from there the whole system would be able to be self powering.
@@peterlittlehorse5695 You would first have to increase the efficiency of the whole process by about 300-500x and there's no guarantee that even when perfected this tech will be able to achieve that.
@@JAN0L Once they get the efficiency up the system most certainly would be able to be self-sustaining; if it weren't, then by definition they didn't achieve their objective of true fusion energy.
You missed the part where they used 1% efficient lasers instead of 20% efficient lasers
@@StefanReich Still 2 orders of magnitude off. Plus the more efficient lasers aren't nearly as powerful as the less efficient ones (it's still a long way to take those into the same ballpark). ICF folks are the *only* group in the field of fusion research who use this weird definition of "net energy yield". Primarily because the goal is to ignite the target like in a fusion bomb, not a sustained reaction as required by a power generator.
The energy needed to power the lasers was 300 MegaJoules. They gained only 1 MegaJoule from the whole process. So we are minus 299 MJ. We have a long way of optimization in front of us.
You beat me to it. The announcement of energy gain was complete BS.
Yes that's what the video said, good job repeating what i just watched.
@@JCO2002 Not _complete_ bullshit. Still a remarkable achievement with an asterisk.
@@Zeropointill The exact number wasn't mentioned in the video so not everything you just watched. No need for sarcasm. We are all fans of Dagogo here.
@@JCO2002 the reporters claiming net energy gain* was complete bs.
As he says in the video, the measure is between energy hitting the fuel and energy expelled from the fuel. That is what is so huge.
I've always been interested in fusion energy, but many of the articles or journals I found on the subject were geared towards scientists and were hard to follow at times. Thank you for making this video, I learned a lot.
Thanks Dagogo, great to see different approaches to achieving a fusion reaction Healthy competition is a great driver to the progress of a goal. This would transform the worlds power production.
I sorely missed these optimistic videos. Thank you
Sci fi∞
@@TMJ0677 I agree, but still optimistic
you glass full guy
@@isatche Za 30 godine, ako preteknemo, pitam te isto
I'm glad you're being cautious to make sure people know that the practicality for this is still decades away. But I think the step taken here is more than just "a large step". Most people thought it was fantasy before (not even sci-fi) because of how long it was taking to take this one large step. Now that this has been confirmed to work on this scale, so much more support for it will begin pouring back in. More *human excitement* was produced from this reaction than was put in.
(Sure, Scientists knew it was possible. But scientists aren't in charge of directing funding.)
It's still fantasy. Anyone can write fiction about a billion dollar machine making enough energy to turn a tv to channel 8.
@@Mike-fx4nu the difference between fantasy and science fiction is whether or not it's hypothetically possible with our current understanding of science.
@@NickWrightDataYT The value in a waterwheel or a coal plant is its economy.
There is 0% chance of any viable fusion plant. The amount of input will always be more than output.
@@Mike-fx4nu you're the exact kind of person I'm talking about in my original post. This isn't a perpetual motion machine.
@@NickWrightDataYT It's worse. It's a machine that claims it can make more output than input.
Excellent summary of the three most promising fusion tech. Thanks
Dang, I love your videos. I enjoyed the fact that you mentioned the project in Southern France the ITER.
The simulation of the ignition laser is amazing, and getting all those split beams to converge at a point is mind blowing. I know the work is hard, days are long, and it’s not all fun and games, but the people working there must get amazing satisfaction.
Great breakdown of a complex system to generate energy. Yes this has take long to get here, but advances in science and engineering will make it a reality. Thanks again Dagogo for a great show. Love you subject matter that seems you never run out of steam. 😂😂
So to speak, lol.
Finally understood, a little bit complex topic of CHEMISTRY - PHYSICS. Thank you ColdFusion!😊
Another great video from your channel as always and keep up the good work Dagogo 🎉🎉🎉
I think the main explosion in an H bomb actually comes from hydrogen fusion, and the fission is only used as a trigger for that reaction(like the lasers...), supposedly there's not that much radiation from an H bomb, just insane explosive power. Really hope to see a viable fusion reactor in my lifetime, what a game changer!
Yeah, oops. he just got it backwards. Must just be low on coffee.
No he’s right. In most warheads the fusion reaction releases tons of neutrons which hit the casing of the bomb made of uranium and cause another stage of fission which causes maybe 60-70% of the yield
The secrete of really big bombs is that u238 will under go fission quite readily, but just need neutrons of rather high energy for which H2+H3 fission will produce.
This is why their called staged bombs.
@@prasannasivakumar6161 what sets off that fusion reaction?
I don't think anyone said creating the conditions of a star on planet earth would be impossible. I believe what they said was extracting energy from it for use as a power source was impossible, and still is. It would be great, but I'm not holding my breath.
Yep, they are trying to duplicate the reaction at the center of a star, or the center of a nuclear bomb, inside some machine. I doubt that can ever be done on a continuious basis.
This was fascinating, thank you, Dagogo!
I absolutely love your ending pun about doing a video on fusion by your channel Coldfusion!
Thanks for the vid, I was just wondering today how the steam deck is doing. Indeed it seems that allowing other developers to add enhancements seems to add more value and utility to these things. Good to hear it isn’t walled off.
It's a step, it's a milestone, but not yet a breakthrough. I'm so excited to see this happen in my lifetime!
I think a big step forward would be finding a way to not need such high purity precursors. Ultrapure water in of itself is a nightmare to purify and store (ask anyone in the semiconductor fabrication industry). When dealing with heavy water for fusion, I can only imagine the headache associated with ultrapure heavy water. I believe that not needing ultrapure grade heavy water I think is a possible next milestone, and possibly not needing heavy water could be another one, though I have less faith in that idea, since deuterium is the most thermodynamically efficient precursor as far as I know.
DISCLAIMER: my background is materials science, chemical engineering, electrochemistry, and molecular physics. I am not a nuclear chemist or physicist. My only exposure to nuclear fusion work is reading the scientific papers associated with the work out of my own interest.
I’m just a chemistry teacher, so by no means an expert. But I would have to think as you decrease the purity of the materials you use, you would lose a lot of efficiency. I think a goal for nuclear chemists should be finding a way to generate tritium reliably.
@@dylanblomme4679 oh yes, definitely. Both of these statements are true. One facet of chemical engineering, specifically reaction engineering, is being able to produce a product more reliably, like tritium as you stated. But another frontier that a lot of people work on is to be able to perform the same reaction at a lower energetic or economic cost without sacrificing too much yield. So you are right to be worried about the yield loss if you took this approach. You are trying to have it both ways: low cost and high yield.
Thank you for another wonderful wonderful program again I hope to see you in Scandinavia, giving some lectures and playing some music in the Buffalo thank God for having you around us fitting us with wonderful insights
Listen your videos are awesome and so unbiased keep em coming man
I seem to recall reading an article right after Dec 5th, and one of the scientists was quoted as saying something like, "our breakthrough moment came when we realized we don't have to pump energy into the reaction once it starts. The reaction itself will generate the temperatures needed. We just have to get it started." or something like that. I could be mis-remembering that, though.
ColdFusion -- documenting the future, 20mins at a time
great way to ended fusion on Coldfusion! :)
Love that last part "And yes, I've finally done a video on fusion on the channel Cold Fusion" - as always great content and music!
The only channel which remained my favourite since childhood🥰
I’m almost in tears watching this because you’ve done this so well. I learn something new about our world every time you upload. I really appreciate all the work you put in to educating millions of us about our world! Thank you a million times over!
Good highlight. Thanks for sharing it ✌️
I think you should do a video about what great things this breakthrough will actually create like what thing that were impossible before fusion is possible if fusion is done
Fusion will be great when it happens. I had a chance to work briefly on ITER, and I can say that it is an experimental facility that MIGHT overcome many of the limitations of prior tokamak reactors. In any case, commercial fusion power generation is still a couple decades off.
In the meantime, we should be pushing for molten chloride fast reactors (MCFR). These are fission reactors, BUT without many of the concerns that plague traditional fission reactors in current operation in the US, and with many of the advantages of fusion.
MCFR does not use water to slow neutrons down or to cool the reaction. Instead the reaction happens with fast neutrons, which can much more completely use up the fuel, resulting in only short half-life waste products, and can use a wider variety of materials as fuel, including natural/depleted uranium and thorium, as well as much of the existing spent fuel waste stockpile (which still contains a lot of fissile material that simply could not be utilized by the slow neutron reactors). Since the system doesn't use water for primary cooling, there is no high pressure steam to contain, thus reactor vessels can be made much more cheaply. And the reaction is self-limiting. As the temperature increases out of normal operating margin, the liquid reactants expand, slowing down the reaction.
Key advantages:
Can't melt down
Can't have steam explosion or release of radioactive steam
Self regulating
Broad range of fuels
Little new waste and using up existing waste
TerraPower and Elysium Industries are both working on pilot plants to prove commercial viability.
I was surprised ITER wasn’t mentioned more in this episode to be honest …
Good comment. I too was hoping he would go into more detail about alternatives and related technologies that could be used as stepping stones to the future.
Now that you have done an episode on fusion, you better make one on cold!
ColdFusion talking about Fusion. Phenomenal video !!!
I'm so ready for Cold Fusion episode about Cold fusion
Not necessarily, if ITER with its 23,000 tons produced 1 Gw-h, assuming that half of its mass is Neodymium (reactors are basically giant magnets) and that it does not use more exotic elements. With the current reserves we will have about 10 Tw-h as a viable maximum.
This Channel has come a long way since the days of ColdFudsion, now he's finally covering Fusion technology!
Someday ColdFusion will cover Cold Fusion.
Exciting times ahead !!
Great broadcast
Why are even science/tech channels that should know better spouting this B.S. The overall power input of the whole system was about 400 MJ. They produced about 3 MJ. They did not produce more energy than what was put into the overall system. This garbage that it produced more is from the fact that the lasers only delivered about 2MJ to the fuel.
Power delivered to the fuel: 2 / 400 = 0.5% of input.
Power produced: 3 / 400 = 0.75% of input.
Yes this is an important milestone but telling people more energy was produced that used is just flat out wrong and people aren't going to look into or even understand the distinction when this line is being pushed by those they consider experts.
Yep, also it's important to note that the "energy generated" wasn't converted into electrical, I'm pretty sure they were just measuring the thermal energy, a large percentage of which would've been lost in any conversion.
I've yet to hear a realistic pathway for generating electrical power from inertial confinement, it just looks like blue-sky research to me with no practical end goal. Tokamaks and stellarators on the other hand, do look like they could produce real power plants but may end up being far too expensive and complex to get any commercial value from.
My favourite part about the fusion experiment is that they didn’t count the energy the lasers used.
Are you the famous Ainsley truly, so to speak?
@@coffeehangout346 bitch no
Nicely explained, man!
ColdFusion's mini-documentary on fusion energy... I've been waiting for this 🤤
ColdFusion talks about Fusion
😂
Let's hope that fusion energy will be the energy of all the masses in the future.
“Tony Stark was able to build this in a cave! With a box of scraps!”
😂
Great presentation Dagogo.👌🏿😎🌴🌙
I saw the video presentation of fusion by real engineering. It made a lot of sense.
"they produced more energy than they put in"
Only had to make a billion dollar machine to do it.
I would love to know what each of those tiny pellets cost to make. Multiply that by millions a week, and the electricity coming out of that thing will cost a fortune. And the statement about no radioactive waste is false. Over time, the neutrons coming from the fusion will make the walls of the reactor slightly radioactive, weaken the metal, and the metal will have to be discarded as low level radioactive waste. You can't recycle it, since there is no way to remove the radioactive isotopes made by the neutrons.
I'm hoping that AI will help with fusion as well as other technologies. I am hopefull
Great video, thanks!
My favorite part of the episode was the last nod to Fusion! 🔥
I thought you'd also talk about the Wendelstein-Stellerator experiment which just cracked a 8minute sustained plasma milestone. But these guys are in Germany, usually not so boastful.
You’re really reducing reporting on an important milestone as American boastfulness? Everyone involved values your support, thanks.
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Wonderful explanation such a wonderful energy source
It's astounding to think how far humanity has come in such a short period. Best wishes to those working on a cleaner, brighter future!
Fusion energy may be the far future of energy, but right now it's all hype
You will get to grift on this for another 4-5 decades. Well done sir, great video.
Thanks a lot for making this video.
Great video. Very informative.
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luv your work
This is your favourite cold Fusion
very good presentation mate...
ColdFusion finally making a video about Fusion 😅
Finally.. cold fusion doing a video on cold fusion!
6:19 a re-recorded segment of audio, very relatable
Fusion energy is so cool and great video ColdFusion :]
Great video!
I'm watching your channel for the last ten years and I never get tired of! Can you make a video about procedural content generation, not for games, but for programming cells and another high complex simulations? A video like that will be mindblowing for me and a lot of others. (I'm not that kind of person, who asks for videos xD) Thanks!
This is huge. It will take time but it will revolutionize everything!
You have the best voice! It’s so good