I came here to catch people making jokes in the comments about 9/11, not to watch the vid. Plus who would wanna watch about planes hitting towers??@@brianbrian4317
@@Joebidenwithdreads Massive landmark in one of the largest cities in America just gets attacked out of the blue by horrible people and innocents die as a result... Of course there will be speculation and interest as to WHY or HOW it even happened. It's history and to study it shouldn't be weird.
I'm a structural engineering student. I agree with you that the Empire State Building would have been less likely to collapse, but I think you're missing something. The World Trade Center was a steel structure while the ESB is reinforced concrete, the impact of the plane wasn't the direct cause of collapse...it was the fires that ensued because of all the jet fuel. If it was because of the columns taken out, it would have collapsed immediately, but it took an hour. In fact, without the fires it probably would have lasted a lot longer. The fires caused thermal expansion of the floors which then caused the floors to push outwards on the columns and also softened the steel. Eventually the steel buckled and caused the progressive collapse. The ESB on the other is concrete which is virtually fire resistant so it probably would have prevented structural damage due to fire.
If the ESB was New Yorkers would have gone berserk they didnt really like the Twin Towers they adore the ESB the world and the rest of US loved all 3 Structures.
@wamegoamigo The ESB wasn't designed around a reinforced concrete core. It's too old; it was built in 1931, a skeleton made of structural steel was used. Old school structural steel is surrounded by heavy masonry for fireproofing. Beams holding up floors were also solid steel I-beams. Trusses are much weaker under extreme heat than an I-beam, any distortions to the individual triangles mean the safety factor is the only thing holding it up. Simple spray-on fireproofing became dislodged after the initial attack, which left the trusses unprotected. Once enough trusses started to sag, the steel columns started to become unstable, eventually causing them to buckle.
Not only that, but ESB is a beast. They used masonry and a pyramid type design which makes it one of the most stable structures. Every 6 - 8 floor section is smaller than the lower ones making it a low key step pyramid using smaller bricks. It would be okay except for having substantial damage.
Concrete crumbles, and steel bends. Meaning that likely there would have been huge chunks/sections of square footage missing out of the E.S. Building around the spots where the planes hit, but it wouldn't have fell. Try to view it like a really sharp hatchet. If you swing it across a big sheet of aluminum, it cuts through the aluminum and the aluminum falls. If you swing the same hatchet as hard as you can into a concrete block, you will not a big junk out of it probably
@@craigusselman546 Correct. I'm South African and I was born just before 911(May 2000) and even I'm hacked about 911. I would've loved those had they still been here. If the ESB had to have an equivalent attack that somehow made it collapse. I'd be very angry. The ESB is just saw iconic and is synonymous with NYC. It's not NYC without the ESB man.
On that day, we were all thinking it was next. We didn't even hear about the other planes, but we were thinking more were coming, especially the ESB being the next target.
The design and materials used in the Empire State Building lead me to believe it would have withstood taking a 767 to the chest fairly well and possibly would have survived - possibly. The WTC was light and airy. Their design maximized floor space. And as soon as their central core was destroyed, they were doomed. People forget that each plane that hit them not only caused fatal structural damage but also ignited the largest office fires ever seen in a skyscraper. Those infernos spanned multiple floors and engulfed the whole breadth of each building. Couple that with the lightweight design of each tower and the fact they had now been crippled beyond repair, they were doomed. It's a miracle they stood as long as they did. The Empire State Building being built with multiple setbacks and with a traditional steel skeleton with granite, limestone, and cement in its construction was/is much sturdier.
@Depressed Ginger: Thank you so much for listening to me & making this video after I posted this suggestion in a previous video! I cannot find any other creator on UA-cam who discussed the hypothetical scenario of the ESB getting impacted by a plane. You have reassured my feeling of safety after watching this video. Before, I had always felt anxious and always wondered if I should continue working in the ESB. Every single day, there are STILL numerous commercial jet planes flying at a low altitude near the ESB which gave me chills. I still will take precautions and familiarize myself with the fire safety staircases in the ESB in the event something tragic occurs in the future.
Empire State was built OLD SCHOOL, heavy steel cage for structure, thick heavy weight concrete floors, all structural steel encased in concrete to fireproof them, well compartmented with heavy walls, large stairs encased in concrete and tile for fire protection, and the OUTSTANDING FDNY REQUIRED FIRE TOWER. That vented stairway was encased in 4hr rated concrete and allows safe egress from the Bldg. PA refused to install it in their Towers which is why NO ONE COULD GET DOWN ABOVE CRASH FLOORS.
@coreyrowe4119 I live on the same street as the Sears Tower, so as someone that is obsessed with 9/11 I think every now and again about the same thing.
Interesting comparison between the Twin Towers and the Empire State Building... 🤔 I've been to the 85th floor observation deck of the ESB and it just felt SOLID! 🤗 As far as the catastrophe of the Twin Towers, IF only the hundreds and hundreds of tenants had been able to evacuate after the first Tower was hit, by IGNORING the security guards, the loss of life would have been much lower! But keep in mind it was the largest evacuation of people safely from a disaster, as well as the largest boat "flotilla response" to assist in leaving! Incredible! RIP to those lost 🙏
I personally do not think there is a single tower in the world that would not collapse if the exact same type of impact happened, with the same type of plane and the same amount of jet fuel. Keep in mind the towers didn't collapse because of their base not being wide enougg. Once one floor buckled it lead to a chain reaction similar to what you see in earthquakes or when they do controlled demolitions.
Well, the current One World Trade Center uses a concrete core which, in theory, won't result in that building collapsing should an airliner impact One World Trade. The building designers kind of took into consideration the strength of steel (or lack thereof) when contemplating how to erect One World Trade, so I think the use of steel in the building is kept to a minimum, unless steel is absolutely needed.
The Sears Tower similarly would've likely been able to withstand the planes impact and not collapse right away, if that building got hit up high like the north tower did it probably would've only been a partial collapse since only part of the building actually goes up that far.
One thing I NEVER see referenced, is, 'what effect did the collapse of the south tower have on the north tower?'. What I mean is, you already have the effects of the first plane impact, THEN you have another massive tower collapsing right NEXT to it. That collapse must have registered on the north tower like a small earthquake right next door. how much damage did THAT cause to an already weakened building? I never see that mentioned.
Its crazy to note the empire state building has been struck by a plane in the past. It was a small plane I heard though. It basically ate the hit like nothing.
In my opinion any large planes flying at extreme speeds full of fuel is going to give any building a hard time even the freedom tower (yes I know it was designed to withstand another attack, but the twins where designed to take a plane hit too) nothing is impossible.
The Freedom Tower is much tougher. The old towers would have withstood the attack if it wasn't for the fact that they lacked good fireproofing. The new one is tougher structurally and could supposedly handle fire better. All of that being said, a plane veering off of its flight path like that now would probably be shot down long before it came in the vicinity of the tower
So fun fact I live near Bethlehem, PA home of the now debunked Bethlehem steel corporation. Bethlehem steel along with the Chrysler building, made the steel for the Empire State Building. Bethlehem steel outbid US Steel and one the bid to build the twin towers. However, the port authority came back and said this bid is just too high. And then they hired private contractors and built the towers with imported steel all the way through.
I live in Harrisburg PA and I was 19 during 9/11 and right in the middle of all 3 crash sites, and I remember being terrified that day because it was heavily rumored that Three Mile Island was going to be a target (which would've done more damage than the other 4 planes combined).
@@StepUpMedia039 I lived in Middletown at the time, went to Kunkle elementary. I still remember the teachers freaking out because they thought TMI was next. Your right, if they hit the power plant it would have had way more casualties and longer lasting effects from the event. I'm looking at the towers from my back deck as I'm tying this. At that time that was a real fear.
I've always wondered if the second plane had missed, would they have flown around for another pass at WTC? Or would they have kept going north and go for the Empire State Building instead since it would be right in front of them.
That plane was traveling at nearly 500 mph. If it missed the south tower there wouldn’t have enough time for it to pivot to the Empire State Building right away. It would likely be already past the Empire State Building before the hijacker could make an immediate turn. He would have needed to circle back around to make a direct hit.
@@ErikCB912 I guess the reason I wonder is if they had missed, is because that would have presented an opportunity for the passengers to revolt once they realized they missed their target, and to prevent that the terrorists would have just gone for another prominent target without taking the time to reset for another run at the south tower and wasting the opportunity to kill more people than just those on the plane. The passengers had a clear view of the burning north tower, and upon flying past it, they might have seen it as an opportunity and tried to turn the tables on the terrorists, especially since the intent of the terrorists would have been completely obvious at that point.
@@mcteethinator or since it was in a rapid descent, maybe it would have just crashed into other builds or the street depending its position at point of impact
@@mcteethinator very unlikely. Aircraft like that aren't as fragile as I think you're imagining. It's certainly *possible* to rip the wings off most planes, but that's more like if you're trying to fly them like you're in a dogfight.
The ESB would have been okay with some structural damage because it's designed based on a step pyramid with smaller sized bricks making it extremely stable. People don't use pyramid strictures for skyscrapers because the taller the building, the larger the base and it would be too much of a hassle at 100 stories. Pyramids are solid structures.
my understanding on why they chose the world trade center and no other large buildings like the empire state or sears tower is because the twin towers represented America's economic dominance over the rest of the world at the time. If the twin towers were owned by a corporation or were for another purpose other than "world trade" they probably wouldn't have been targeted.
This reminds me of that scene in Back To The Future II where Doc and Marty are tailing Biff and Marty suggest they land on top of Biffs car..we all know Marty's not Chicken/Yella Bellied etc but who knew he could be a cold blooded killer like "Go For It Doc Lets Crush This Nigga!!!" and Doc says "he'd cut through us like we were tinfoil" granted things were still built very strong in the 60s & 70s but still not as strong as the 30s, i think the ESB would'nt have collapsed even if it was a straight direct hit at the center of the building
I dont know if any one knows but on July 28, 1945, a B-25 Mitchell bomber of the United States Army Air Forces crashed into the north side of the Empire State Building in New York City while flying in thick fog. The crash killed fourteen people, and an estimated twenty-four others were injured
I’ve always thought about this, but one thing that brought to my attention that never did previously. Apparently the attendance of workers at TWC was low compared to a typical Tuesday workday, would the Empire State Building have a similar scenario that the building wasn’t at its full potential of being filled with people?
I wonder how the stairwells and connecting stairwells worked. I see stories of survivors getting out of one stairwell and getting into a connecting stairwell on the upper floors. That seems confusing since most stairwells are designed in one straight column to the ground floor.
You also failed to consider the durability of the buildings against fire. One factor is concrete has better resistance than exposed steel. Another is oxygen. Wtc open floor plan would likely create more avenues for oxygen to feed the resulting fires. Another factor would be fire suppression. Since the plane would likely not penetrate as deep, the chances of it severing all water lines leading to sprinkler systems would be much smaller, meaning resulting fires would not be as intense. I think total collapse only above impact point would only be possible but not likely. I think chance of total collapse of entire building would only be negligible to marginal.
Sometimes I've thought of this. As you mention, the esb has sturdier exterior walls than the wtc. I've wondered if ila plane hitting the esb would have been somewhat like going through a cheese shredder, parts of the plane would slam through the windows, but parts of the plane that hit walls might have broken off and fallen to the street as debris. But I don't know about the relative strength of materials and factoring speed of impact.
Any speculation on how the country would have reacted to the empire state being destroyed as opposed to the twin towers? How would that have affected politics and the course of history?
He literally mentioned this in the video and said its not worth talking about. It was like 1/20th of the size of the 9/11 planes and like 400 mph slower with a TON less fuel. Its not a comparison.
I think the Empire State Building would have had a much better chance of not collapsing due to the better distribution of structural loads. The fire would have still been immense but the firefighters would have had a better shot at fighting it. They didn't stand a chance at the WTC. The WTC design doomed it from the start. It was genius in terms of increasing floor space but it was extremely vulnerable to the type of damage and fires that occurred on 9/11.
Perfectly wrong. Tubular design is what prevented the immediate collapse. That is the structural engineering consensus. Such impacts occuring on classical structures do not lead to good weight distribution. Weight pushes straight down, into the void of severed loadbearing members. WTC's perimeter wall with a dense mesh of large spandrels connecting columns, and hat truss on the top, redistributed the loads away from the impact zone. Neither you or OP know what you're taking about.
@@lajoswinklerHold up! I didn't say the tower's design was flawed or that they should have collapsed immediately. You're right, the design of the towers kept them standing as long as they did considering the initial damage and thank God for that. However they didn't remain standing long enough for firefighters to mount any real battle against the fires. We all know those fires led to the sagging trusses pulling inward on the exterior columns causing them to buckle which ultimately caused the collapse. The subsequent pancaking of floors is what led to complete collapse. Like I said, the design was genius but that same design led to its complete destruction. The Empire State Building may very well had partially collapsed as well but I just dont see it completely collapsing as the towers did. That was the point of what I was saying.
Kind of reminds me of an after 9/11 late show joke.It starts off by saying I got a plane to catch and there's a connecting flight at the empire State building.
I don’t know if you’ve seen it, but have you seen the limp bizkit video, rollin air raid vehicle, that music video is filmed on the observation deck of the south tower which is very crazy
What would happen if the twin towers were hit head on to the corner of the buildings, instead of in the center? Taking out a corner a whole corner of the building makes you think it would lean significantly, possibly enough to collapse instantly.
Well 2 WTC was hit rather close to the corner, as opposed to 1 WTC. It fell under an hour later, and the section above impact point did fall sideways. If it was hit directly on the corner, the upper section would have fell pretty instantly.
@@btappan88 Oh gosh yes, it’d have been even worse, dare we say. Nobody would have had time to escape. There was already so much devastation, which still lives with us all. I couldn’t imagine it being worse, but it would have been.
@@dickjohnson5979 Seeing as no grounded plane was found to have hijackers onboard are you suggesting that a non-hijacked plane might have decided to join in the terrorist attack just for fun?
Hitting the Empire State Building is like hitting a tower made of concrete blocks. Hitting the World Trade Center is like hitting towers made of popsicle sticks.
Where is the data on the distribution of steel down down any of the buildings? Did level 105 contain the same amount of steel as the 5th level which had to support the weight of 21 times as many stories? Where have structural engineers discussed that steel distribution in Two Decades? @3:58 "thousands of times more lethal" Really?
I've read other analysis that the Empire State would have stood. I disagree. If hit 1/3 down from the top I think it would have fallen down right away, killing 5000-10,000 in and around it. The B-29 that hit the Empire State was a fairly small plane and it was moving slowly. A big jet with lot of fuel moving at 550mph.... I think it would have been lights out. Glad we never found out.
@@kenheise162 because a 20,000 lbs airplane low on fuel is nothing like a 250,000 lbs jet going over twice as fast with 10,000 gallons of fuel hitting a building built completely different
It probably would still collapse, but there would be less deaths and not 3,000 dead. The Empire State Building isn’t a highly trafficked area especially in the early morning hours. Plus could they even hit it if they wanted to? The only reason they could hit the towers is because it was possible to hit the towers. They were in a position that was easy to hit and it’s not like the towers had other buildings that could prevent the crash. The Empire State Building is located more in the city and I don’t think a plane could realistically crash into the Empire State because it would end up down somewhere in the city by the angle they would try to hit it.
People seem to forget the tragedy of 9 11 wasn’t the buildings. The buildings were hit and obviously collapsed but it was the collapse that cemented it as the tragedy as we remember. So many life’s were lost just in the collapse alone. They estimate a 3,000 people causality rate which is what we remember most. If the buildings didn’t collapse and somehow did survive people would’ve survived and maybe 911 wouldn’t be so erected in our brains but the high casualty rate is what makes it the tragedy that it was.
@@tylerthomas7763never mind the pentagon that was just scathed … I like the idea that one Numbskull architect said “seeing them Go Back up would be just as Powerful as watching them go down” Too bad we were still too cowardly 😡😓
I still wonder though if the empire state building would do as well as most people say. The engine of the plane that hit the empire state building in 1945 was still able to puncture a hole on the other side of the impact. So an even bigger plane like a 767 hitting it would still do an enormous amount of damage due to all the masonry. I wonder if the empire state building would do worse than the twins in handling the inital impact due to using more masonry than hardened steel like the twins, but much better and handling the fires cause of the concrete and masonry. Even though the twins used trusses for floor support, they still used alot more high strength steel than the empire state building.
ESB has no reinforced concrete. Masonry in it is decorative and only a weight, it does not contribute to structural stability. OP makes it look like "most people say ESB would fare better" but that's false. Most people do not say that and it is factually incorrect on its own. Tubular design is what saved so many lives on 9/11. Had the fireproofing been less flimsy and held up better, they would've had survived for even longer time. Maybe even completely.
The comparisons are rather misleading. The Twin Towers were explicitly designed to withstand accidental impacts from large airliners (in the sense of not collapsing immediately), having been designed in the 1960s. The ESB was designed in an era when large airliners did not existed. It would collapse instantly.
@lajoswinkler I've seen comments all over Quara and the internet that say ESB would fare better, which is the reason I made the comment cause it doesn't seem like a common opinion, at least from what I've seen on the internet. What would you say about the tube design that makes it better for handling a plane impact?
ESB was overbuilt, and it's modern experimenting models suggest it would take up to an 1100 mph wind to knock it over. In the later years during the WTC construction the technology was better and they built them as needed without overbuilding them like the ESB. The Steel beams used were much larger and stronger than was found to be needed during later studies it was determined, not to mentioned they were just as thick if not thicker, and they were both riveted and welded. Chances are move likely than not that the ESB would have withstood with serious damage. The bomber that hit the ESB had an engine that made it through the core wall and dropped all the way down the elevator shaft all the way to the bottom. Another elevator car had its cables sheared and it dropped over 76 floors to the bottom so fast that the emergency breaks were not able to fully kick in, and the female operator survived but with broken legs and other bones, but thankfully made a full recovery, and actually went back to work after that! Chances are the ESB structure would hold up well to a quake maybe up to 6.5-7.0 but the limestone facade would crumble for sure and rain death on people on the streets below. But the column layout is so extensive, that the building is supported VERY well even though it was not built to stand to quakes. BTW - NYC is expecting at one point a quake between 5.0 possibly as much as 6.0, and that would be far worse than the San Andreas quake if maxed atg 8.4 when it finally snaps in the Southern (Palm Springs) region where most of the stress is and directs to LA. BTW - in the 1906 San Francisco quake which ruptured VERY close to the city, most of the larger high rise buildings held up ok, and many of them still stand and are in use to this day without a problem. When you look at pics of the damage from 1906, you will see a lot of the damage from pics taken after the US Army had blown up countless buildings (or what remained) with dynamite in an attempt to stop the spread of fire. Most buildings even back then did not completely collapse, and instead were more partial collapses. Most moden buildings in NYC will hold up to a Magnitdue 6 to as much as a 6.5 and will do fine including the very large structures including the WTC and other massive buildings. The older mortar based buildings would crumble unfortunately, which many apartment/condos are made of and they would crumble to dust and entob hundreds of thousands of people with just a mgnitude 5.5 quake, and for that reason it would be the worst quake to hit the US (as far as death toll) when it eventually WILL HAPPEN.
Actually the Empire State Building DID get hit by a B 25 bomber in 1945 ( though it was a much smaller and slower plane) that got lost in a fog it did hit but the building survived mainly due to the type of girder rivet construction which made its frame more rigid . In contrast to the World trade centers height they had to use lighter girders and they used a truss beam across for the floors that were attached by pins twisted into the edges. This made the upper floors lighter but somewhat less strong and the pins were the achilles heel causing it to pancake when it collapsed.
The Empire State building was built of steel. If it was it hit it would’ve collapsed instantly. The world trade center were genius buildings. You clearly know nothing about structural engineering. You should look up Leslie Robertson engineering. He was the genius that made the towers stand. It’s because of him that they stood as long as they did and allowed thousands of people to leave.
The Empire State Building was hit by a Military Bomber Plane in the year of 1945. The reason why it got struck by a Bomber was because of extreme fog. The plane that hit the Empire State building was fully fueled. It was traveling about 450 to 565mph. When it struck the building.
to be honest, i think that if we had the same szenario of the plane crash that happened with the empire state building in 1945, but it would hit one of the twin towers, the one whos got hit would also fell. after seeing this video, i really lost believe that the twin towers with they floor design could handle alot of damage, but as soon as a fire starts, the tower would collapse the almost same way, as it happened on 9/11 but of course taking longer. i just cant believe that they can survive a plane crash with an fire outbreak when i look at the thin and weak floors
I love how this channel is just all over the place. Goes from college football picks to high school stories to 9/11 alternate history
@@Joebidenwithdreads Worst terror attack in human history and you are surprised people have an interest in it?
@@Joebidenwithdreadsit’s an interesting event…simple as that
@@Joebidenwithdreadsthen don’t watch lol, obviously you were drawn to the video
I came here to catch people making jokes in the comments about 9/11, not to watch the vid. Plus who would wanna watch about planes hitting towers??@@brianbrian4317
@@Joebidenwithdreads Massive landmark in one of the largest cities in America just gets attacked out of the blue by horrible people and innocents die as a result... Of course there will be speculation and interest as to WHY or HOW it even happened. It's history and to study it shouldn't be weird.
I'm a structural engineering student. I agree with you that the Empire State Building would have been less likely to collapse, but I think you're missing something. The World Trade Center was a steel structure while the ESB is reinforced concrete, the impact of the plane wasn't the direct cause of collapse...it was the fires that ensued because of all the jet fuel. If it was because of the columns taken out, it would have collapsed immediately, but it took an hour. In fact, without the fires it probably would have lasted a lot longer. The fires caused thermal expansion of the floors which then caused the floors to push outwards on the columns and also softened the steel. Eventually the steel buckled and caused the progressive collapse. The ESB on the other is concrete which is virtually fire resistant so it probably would have prevented structural damage due to fire.
If the ESB was New Yorkers would have gone berserk they didnt really like the Twin Towers they adore the ESB the world and the rest of US loved all 3 Structures.
@wamegoamigo The ESB wasn't designed around a reinforced concrete core. It's too old; it was built in 1931, a skeleton made of structural steel was used. Old school structural steel is surrounded by heavy masonry for fireproofing. Beams holding up floors were also solid steel I-beams. Trusses are much weaker under extreme heat than an I-beam, any distortions to the individual triangles mean the safety factor is the only thing holding it up. Simple spray-on fireproofing became dislodged after the initial attack, which left the trusses unprotected. Once enough trusses started to sag, the steel columns started to become unstable, eventually causing them to buckle.
Not only that, but ESB is a beast.
They used masonry and a pyramid type design which makes it one of the most stable structures.
Every 6 - 8 floor section is smaller than the lower ones making it a low key step pyramid using smaller bricks.
It would be okay except for having substantial damage.
Concrete crumbles, and steel bends. Meaning that likely there would have been huge chunks/sections of square footage missing out of the E.S. Building around the spots where the planes hit, but it wouldn't have fell. Try to view it like a really sharp hatchet. If you swing it across a big sheet of aluminum, it cuts through the aluminum and the aluminum falls. If you swing the same hatchet as hard as you can into a concrete block, you will not a big junk out of it probably
@@craigusselman546 Correct. I'm South African and I was born just before 911(May 2000) and even I'm hacked about 911. I would've loved those had they still been here.
If the ESB had to have an equivalent attack that somehow made it collapse. I'd be very angry. The ESB is just saw iconic and is synonymous with NYC.
It's not NYC without the ESB man.
On that day, we were all thinking it was next. We didn't even hear about the other planes, but we were thinking more were coming, especially the ESB being the next target.
People were panicking about every major attraction.
@@elliecherise1968for good reason.
Imagine if the CN tower was hit
I wish I visited the twin towers, they are so magical!
I was in them. They weren’t magical haha. The new one is a pretty cool visit though.
My gr
Go to stratosphere in Las Vegas..imo it's a good twin tower equivalent without the twin and bad voodoo
WTF YOU MEAN, MAGICAL??? GUYS WHAT IS THIS GUY TALKING ABOUT? EXPLAIN!😒
@@quantum_beebwould love to have what your smoking bro
Thanks for all the great video's Mr. Ginger.
The design and materials used in the Empire State Building lead me to believe it would have withstood taking a 767 to the chest fairly well and possibly would have survived - possibly. The WTC was light and airy. Their design maximized floor space. And as soon as their central core was destroyed, they were doomed. People forget that each plane that hit them not only caused fatal structural damage but also ignited the largest office fires ever seen in a skyscraper. Those infernos spanned multiple floors and engulfed the whole breadth of each building. Couple that with the lightweight design of each tower and the fact they had now been crippled beyond repair, they were doomed. It's a miracle they stood as long as they did. The Empire State Building being built with multiple setbacks and with a traditional steel skeleton with granite, limestone, and cement in its construction was/is much sturdier.
@Depressed Ginger: Thank you so much for listening to me & making this video after I posted this suggestion in a previous video! I cannot find any other creator on UA-cam who discussed the hypothetical scenario of the ESB getting impacted by a plane. You have reassured my feeling of safety after watching this video. Before, I had always felt anxious and always wondered if I should continue working in the ESB. Every single day, there are STILL numerous commercial jet planes flying at a low altitude near the ESB which gave me chills. I still will take precautions and familiarize myself with the fire safety staircases in the ESB in the event something tragic occurs in the future.
Empire State was built OLD SCHOOL, heavy steel cage for structure, thick heavy weight concrete floors, all structural steel encased in concrete to fireproof them, well compartmented with heavy walls, large stairs encased in concrete and tile for fire protection, and the OUTSTANDING FDNY REQUIRED FIRE TOWER. That vented stairway was encased in 4hr rated concrete and allows safe egress from the Bldg. PA refused to install it in their Towers which is why NO ONE COULD GET DOWN ABOVE CRASH FLOORS.
Good work. Love your vids. Keep em coming
ESB has steel columns, not concrete. Neither ESB nor WTC had a concrete core, but the floors were standard hybrid.
That was my first thought too. It is steel base to top
Exactly. The only concrete in all three buildings was the one poured on steel as a walking surface. No load bearing, just weight.
They also wanted to destroy Sears Tower in Chicago.
I never even thought of that
I'm an Illinois native and I can't help but think about that everytime I see the Sears Tower in the distance while driving.
@coreyrowe4119 I live on the same street as the Sears Tower, so as someone that is obsessed with 9/11 I think every now and again about the same thing.
They also wanted to hit the Golden Gate Bridge and the Texas tower
WILLIS
Interesting comparison between the Twin Towers and the Empire State Building... 🤔
I've been to the 85th floor observation deck of the ESB and it just felt SOLID! 🤗
As far as the catastrophe of the Twin Towers, IF only the hundreds and hundreds of tenants had been able to evacuate after the first Tower was hit, by IGNORING the security guards, the loss of life would have been much lower!
But keep in mind it was the largest evacuation of people safely from a disaster, as well as the largest boat "flotilla response" to assist in leaving! Incredible!
RIP to those lost 🙏
I personally do not think there is a single tower in the world that would not collapse if the exact same type of impact happened, with the same type of plane and the same amount of jet fuel. Keep in mind the towers didn't collapse because of their base not being wide enougg. Once one floor buckled it lead to a chain reaction similar to what you see in earthquakes or when they do controlled demolitions.
Well, the current One World Trade Center uses a concrete core which, in theory, won't result in that building collapsing should an airliner impact One World Trade. The building designers kind of took into consideration the strength of steel (or lack thereof) when contemplating how to erect One World Trade, so I think the use of steel in the building is kept to a minimum, unless steel is absolutely needed.
The Sears Tower similarly would've likely been able to withstand the planes impact and not collapse right away, if that building got hit up high like the north tower did it probably would've only been a partial collapse since only part of the building actually goes up that far.
@@coreyrowe4119 willis
@@CheeseMiser sears for life
@@CheeseMiser 🤡 SEAR Tower
Hell even “Cirrus Tower” as in Cirrus Clouds would’ve been More fitting
One thing I NEVER see referenced, is, 'what effect did the collapse of the south tower have on the north tower?'. What I mean is, you already have the effects of the first plane impact, THEN you have another massive tower collapsing right NEXT to it. That collapse must have registered on the north tower like a small earthquake right next door. how much damage did THAT cause to an already weakened building? I never see that mentioned.
Its crazy to note the empire state building has been struck by a plane in the past. It was a small plane I heard though. It basically ate the hit like nothing.
In my opinion any large planes flying at extreme speeds full of fuel is going to give any building a hard time even the freedom tower (yes I know it was designed to withstand another attack, but the twins where designed to take a plane hit too) nothing is impossible.
The Freedom Tower is much tougher. The old towers would have withstood the attack if it wasn't for the fact that they lacked good fireproofing. The new one is tougher structurally and could supposedly handle fire better. All of that being said, a plane veering off of its flight path like that now would probably be shot down long before it came in the vicinity of the tower
So fun fact I live near Bethlehem, PA home of the now debunked Bethlehem steel corporation. Bethlehem steel along with the Chrysler building, made the steel for the Empire State Building. Bethlehem steel outbid US Steel and one the bid to build the twin towers. However, the port authority came back and said this bid is just too high. And then they hired private contractors and built the towers with imported steel all the way through.
I live in Harrisburg PA and I was 19 during 9/11 and right in the middle of all 3 crash sites, and I remember being terrified that day because it was heavily rumored that Three Mile Island was going to be a target (which would've done more damage than the other 4 planes combined).
@@StepUpMedia039 I lived in Middletown at the time, went to Kunkle elementary. I still remember the teachers freaking out because they thought TMI was next. Your right, if they hit the power plant it would have had way more casualties and longer lasting effects from the event. I'm looking at the towers from my back deck as I'm tying this. At that time that was a real fear.
I've always wondered if the second plane had missed, would they have flown around for another pass at WTC? Or would they have kept going north and go for the Empire State Building instead since it would be right in front of them.
That plane was traveling at nearly 500 mph. If it missed the south tower there wouldn’t have enough time for it to pivot to the Empire State Building right away. It would likely be already past the Empire State Building before the hijacker could make an immediate turn. He would have needed to circle back around to make a direct hit.
@@ErikCB912 I guess the reason I wonder is if they had missed, is because that would have presented an opportunity for the passengers to revolt once they realized they missed their target, and to prevent that the terrorists would have just gone for another prominent target without taking the time to reset for another run at the south tower and wasting the opportunity to kill more people than just those on the plane. The passengers had a clear view of the burning north tower, and upon flying past it, they might have seen it as an opportunity and tried to turn the tables on the terrorists, especially since the intent of the terrorists would have been completely obvious at that point.
it was flying faster than it was safe to fly a 767, if it hadn't hit the tower it would've broken up in mid-air.
@@mcteethinator or since it was in a rapid descent, maybe it would have just crashed into other builds or the street depending its position at point of impact
@@mcteethinator very unlikely. Aircraft like that aren't as fragile as I think you're imagining. It's certainly *possible* to rip the wings off most planes, but that's more like if you're trying to fly them like you're in a dogfight.
The ESB would have been okay with some structural damage because it's designed based on a step pyramid with smaller sized bricks making it extremely stable.
People don't use pyramid strictures for skyscrapers because the taller the building, the larger the base and it would be too much of a hassle at 100 stories.
Pyramids are solid structures.
my understanding on why they chose the world trade center and no other large buildings like the empire state or sears tower is because the twin towers represented America's economic dominance over the rest of the world at the time. If the twin towers were owned by a corporation or were for another purpose other than "world trade" they probably wouldn't have been targeted.
Willis
@@CheeseMiser it was sears tower at the time lol
@@SnipE_mS22 years ago
@@CheeseMiser I know I know. Im old :D
@@CheeseMiserSEARS
Not that Pathetic richman’s name
This reminds me of that scene in Back To The Future II where Doc and Marty are tailing Biff and Marty suggest they land on top of Biffs car..we all know Marty's not Chicken/Yella Bellied etc but who knew he could be a cold blooded killer like "Go For It Doc Lets Crush This Nigga!!!" and Doc says "he'd cut through us like we were tinfoil" granted things were still built very strong in the 60s & 70s but still not as strong as the 30s, i think the ESB would'nt have collapsed even if it was a straight direct hit at the center of the building
true
I don't know if a DeLorean would have been cut through like that though. It was made out of stainless steel, which is quite known for its toughness.
At this point you gotta do a video on what if the Sears Tower was hit on 9/11.
WILLIS ffs
@@CheeseMiser Sears for life
@@CheeseMiserhey Not So Smart Person, stop trying to argue with Chicagoins 😊
@@APerson-ni1gb stop disappointing Illinois
There is a reason why they went after the WTC. They knew it was the most vulnerable.
I dont know if any one knows but on July 28, 1945, a B-25 Mitchell bomber of the United States Army Air Forces crashed into the north side of the Empire State Building in New York City while flying in thick fog. The crash killed fourteen people, and an estimated twenty-four others were injured
The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey had the opportunity to equip Freedom Tower with CIWS Radar Guided 20mm cannons and fumbled it.
Did I catch an accidential "Empire Strikes Back" corrected in editing? 😅
I’ve always thought about this, but one thing that brought to my attention that never did previously. Apparently the attendance of workers at TWC was low compared to a typical Tuesday workday, would the Empire State Building have a similar scenario that the building wasn’t at its full potential of being filled with people?
I watch you all the time
I wonder how the stairwells and connecting stairwells worked. I see stories of survivors getting out of one stairwell and getting into a connecting stairwell on the upper floors. That seems confusing since most stairwells are designed in one straight column to the ground floor.
You also failed to consider the durability of the buildings against fire. One factor is concrete has better resistance than exposed steel. Another is oxygen. Wtc open floor plan would likely create more avenues for oxygen to feed the resulting fires. Another factor would be fire suppression. Since the plane would likely not penetrate as deep, the chances of it severing all water lines leading to sprinkler systems would be much smaller, meaning resulting fires would not be as intense.
I think total collapse only above impact point would only be possible but not likely. I think chance of total collapse of entire building would only be negligible to marginal.
Sometimes I've thought of this. As you mention, the esb has sturdier exterior walls than the wtc. I've wondered if ila plane hitting the esb would have been somewhat like going through a cheese shredder, parts of the plane would slam through the windows, but parts of the plane that hit walls might have broken off and fallen to the street as debris. But I don't know about the relative strength of materials and factoring speed of impact.
That's basically what happened to the B-25 that hit it, so you're probably right.
Not many people know this, but an airplane hit the Empire State building in 1945
Anyone who watched this video would have.
Could you do a video on the Indiana Michigan Power Center in Fort Wayne. That'd be cool.
That has a huge Christmas wreath hanging on it now
If the ESB collapsed in this scenario, would they have rebuilt it exactly as is?
Any speculation on how the country would have reacted to the empire state being destroyed as opposed to the twin towers? How would that have affected politics and the course of history?
The Empire State Building was already hit by a plane in 1945 on foggy day it’s was a survivor
Yeah but it was a smaller and not a jet plane.
Completely unrelated to 9/11. It was hit by a small, slow airplane.
He literally mentioned this in the video and said its not worth talking about. It was like 1/20th of the size of the 9/11 planes and like 400 mph slower with a TON less fuel. Its not a comparison.
@@lajoswinklerit was a B-25 Mitchell Frontline Bomber can go 300Mph
@@Albiewolf But was unlikely to be travelling at top speed given the limited visibility.
My grandma went to the south tower in the 90s and she went on the observatory deck
To be honest younger me had always thought of this
I think the Empire State Building would have had a much better chance of not collapsing due to the better distribution of structural loads. The fire would have still been immense but the firefighters would have had a better shot at fighting it. They didn't stand a chance at the WTC. The WTC design doomed it from the start. It was genius in terms of increasing floor space but it was extremely vulnerable to the type of damage and fires that occurred on 9/11.
Perfectly wrong. Tubular design is what prevented the immediate collapse. That is the structural engineering consensus.
Such impacts occuring on classical structures do not lead to good weight distribution. Weight pushes straight down, into the void of severed loadbearing members.
WTC's perimeter wall with a dense mesh of large spandrels connecting columns, and hat truss on the top, redistributed the loads away from the impact zone.
Neither you or OP know what you're taking about.
@@lajoswinklerHold up! I didn't say the tower's design was flawed or that they should have collapsed immediately. You're right, the design of the towers kept them standing as long as they did considering the initial damage and thank God for that. However they didn't remain standing long enough for firefighters to mount any real battle against the fires. We all know those fires led to the sagging trusses pulling inward on the exterior columns causing them to buckle which ultimately caused the collapse. The subsequent pancaking of floors is what led to complete collapse. Like I said, the design was genius but that same design led to its complete destruction.
The Empire State Building may very well had partially collapsed as well but I just dont see it completely collapsing as the towers did. That was the point of what I was saying.
Kind of reminds me of an after 9/11 late show joke.It starts off by saying I got a plane to catch and there's a connecting flight at the empire State building.
I don’t know if you’ve seen it, but have you seen the limp bizkit video, rollin air raid vehicle, that music video is filmed on the observation deck of the south tower which is very crazy
It was also filmed not long before the attack if I remember correctly.
Actually my grandmother survived 9/11 she was at the impact point of the pentagon
Is the empire state building more symbolic than the twin towers?
I keep hearing "Umpire" State and it's driving me nuts.
What would happen if the twin towers were hit head on to the corner of the buildings, instead of in the center? Taking out a corner a whole corner of the building makes you think it would lean significantly, possibly enough to collapse instantly.
That's the weakest point
Well 2 WTC was hit rather close to the corner, as opposed to 1 WTC. It fell under an hour later, and the section above impact point did fall sideways. If it was hit directly on the corner, the upper section would have fell pretty instantly.
@@sarah_751 can you imagine witnessing that? As terrible as it was.. an instantaneous collapse would cause complete chaos
@@btappan88 Oh gosh yes, it’d have been even worse, dare we say. Nobody would have had time to escape. There was already so much devastation, which still lives with us all. I couldn’t imagine it being worse, but it would have been.
That would’ve been scary if there was a 5th plane that hit the Empire State Building
It might have happened if we hadn't grounded all flights quickly.
@@dickjohnson5979 Seeing as no grounded plane was found to have hijackers onboard are you suggesting that a non-hijacked plane might have decided to join in the terrorist attack just for fun?
@@krashdno, but another flight could have left that did have hijackers on it. Time is weird like that.
Hitting the Empire State Building is like hitting a tower made of concrete blocks.
Hitting the World Trade Center is like hitting towers made of popsicle sticks.
Think So.???
More like jenga blocks.
I think about this! The Empire State Building is irreplaceable
Where is the data on the distribution of steel down down any of the buildings?
Did level 105 contain the same amount of steel as the 5th level which had to support the weight of 21 times as many stories?
Where have structural engineers discussed that steel distribution in Two Decades?
@3:58 "thousands of times more lethal"
Really?
Awesome channel
You’ve got neat videos
It doesn’t matter whether it collapses or not, if a plane hits the ESB and I’m inside, I’m outta there!
On July 28, 1945 on a cloudy day a B27 bomber hit the empire state building and only 14 people died...Empire State did survived the accident
How about the Steinway Tower? ... would it survive a B767 impact? ...full fuel at 500mph?
I'd be PISSED AF
I've read other analysis that the Empire State would have stood. I disagree. If hit 1/3 down from the top I think it would have fallen down right away, killing 5000-10,000 in and around it. The B-29 that hit the Empire State was a fairly small plane and it was moving slowly. A big jet with lot of fuel moving at 550mph.... I think it would have been lights out. Glad we never found out.
B-25
The Empire State Building DID get hit by an airplane. A B-25 Mitchel Bomber hit it on 28 July 1945 at 0940 causing $1 Million in damage.
@JR-zv4rs He even mentioned it in the video
Completely irrelevant
@@mikebyrd8278oh do say exactly how.
@@kenheise162 because a 20,000 lbs airplane low on fuel is nothing like a 250,000 lbs jet going over twice as fast with 10,000 gallons of fuel hitting a building built completely different
@@mikebyrd8278 go back and read the OP then re-read my answer….
I’m wondering if the terrorists made the same considerations as you are in this video
Can you imagine if all three of them got hit?!
It probably would still collapse, but there would be less deaths and not 3,000 dead. The Empire State Building isn’t a highly trafficked area especially in the early morning hours. Plus could they even hit it if they wanted to? The only reason they could hit the towers is because it was possible to hit the towers. They were in a position that was easy to hit and it’s not like the towers had other buildings that could prevent the crash. The Empire State Building is located more in the city and I don’t think a plane could realistically crash into the Empire State because it would end up down somewhere in the city by the angle they would try to hit it.
People seem to forget the tragedy of 9 11 wasn’t the buildings. The buildings were hit and obviously collapsed but it was the collapse that cemented it as the tragedy as we remember. So many life’s were lost just in the collapse alone. They estimate a 3,000 people causality rate which is what we remember most. If the buildings didn’t collapse and somehow did survive people would’ve survived and maybe 911 wouldn’t be so erected in our brains but the high casualty rate is what makes it the tragedy that it was.
@@tylerthomas7763never mind the pentagon that was just scathed …
I like the idea that one Numbskull architect said “seeing them Go Back up would be just as Powerful as watching them go down”
Too bad we were still too cowardly 😡😓
Hello, I like your videos!
Do a video on HEX!
Couldn't get another 34 seconds ?
Well how about Culturally, like if the ESB was Destroyed, would America Just Replace it or Have a Perimeter memorial Only ?
What if.. Mexico city have a 9/11 attack?
I still wonder though if the empire state building would do as well as most people say. The engine of the plane that hit the empire state building in 1945 was still able to puncture a hole on the other side of the impact. So an even bigger plane like a 767 hitting it would still do an enormous amount of damage due to all the masonry. I wonder if the empire state building would do worse than the twins in handling the inital impact due to using more masonry than hardened steel like the twins, but much better and handling the fires cause of the concrete and masonry. Even though the twins used trusses for floor support, they still used alot more high strength steel than the empire state building.
ESB has no reinforced concrete. Masonry in it is decorative and only a weight, it does not contribute to structural stability.
OP makes it look like "most people say ESB would fare better" but that's false. Most people do not say that and it is factually incorrect on its own. Tubular design is what saved so many lives on 9/11. Had the fireproofing been less flimsy and held up better, they would've had survived for even longer time. Maybe even completely.
The comparisons are rather misleading. The Twin Towers were explicitly designed to withstand accidental impacts from large airliners (in the sense of not collapsing immediately), having been designed in the 1960s. The ESB was designed in an era when large airliners did not existed. It would collapse instantly.
@lajoswinkler I've seen comments all over Quara and the internet that say ESB would fare better, which is the reason I made the comment cause it doesn't seem like a common opinion, at least from what I've seen on the internet. What would you say about the tube design that makes it better for handling a plane impact?
I hate Quara - it took foe ever to get off their numerous emails they used to send me@@Boiledbiscuits
ESB was overbuilt, and it's modern experimenting models suggest it would take up to an 1100 mph wind to knock it over. In the later years during the WTC construction the technology was better and they built them as needed without overbuilding them like the ESB. The Steel beams used were much larger and stronger than was found to be needed during later studies it was determined, not to mentioned they were just as thick if not thicker, and they were both riveted and welded. Chances are move likely than not that the ESB would have withstood with serious damage. The bomber that hit the ESB had an engine that made it through the core wall and dropped all the way down the elevator shaft all the way to the bottom. Another elevator car had its cables sheared and it dropped over 76 floors to the bottom so fast that the emergency breaks were not able to fully kick in, and the female operator survived but with broken legs and other bones, but thankfully made a full recovery, and actually went back to work after that!
Chances are the ESB structure would hold up well to a quake maybe up to 6.5-7.0 but the limestone facade would crumble for sure and rain death on people on the streets below. But the column layout is so extensive, that the building is supported VERY well even though it was not built to stand to quakes. BTW - NYC is expecting at one point a quake between 5.0 possibly as much as 6.0, and that would be far worse than the San Andreas quake if maxed atg 8.4 when it finally snaps in the Southern (Palm Springs) region where most of the stress is and directs to LA. BTW - in the 1906 San Francisco quake which ruptured VERY close to the city, most of the larger high rise buildings held up ok, and many of them still stand and are in use to this day without a problem. When you look at pics of the damage from 1906, you will see a lot of the damage from pics taken after the US Army had blown up countless buildings (or what remained) with dynamite in an attempt to stop the spread of fire. Most buildings even back then did not completely collapse, and instead were more partial collapses. Most moden buildings in NYC will hold up to a Magnitdue 6 to as much as a 6.5 and will do fine including the very large structures including the WTC and other massive buildings. The older mortar based buildings would crumble unfortunately, which many apartment/condos are made of and they would crumble to dust and entob hundreds of thousands of people with just a mgnitude 5.5 quake, and for that reason it would be the worst quake to hit the US (as far as death toll) when it eventually WILL HAPPEN.
Actually the Empire State Building DID get hit by a B 25 bomber in 1945 ( though it was a much smaller and slower plane) that got lost in a fog it did hit but the building survived mainly due to the type of girder rivet construction which made its frame more rigid . In contrast to the World trade centers height they had to use lighter girders and they used a truss beam across for the floors that were attached by pins twisted into the edges. This made the upper floors lighter but somewhat less strong and the pins were the achilles heel causing it to pancake when it collapsed.
Nice video of the day.❤🎉. 0:15 .
It would have bounced off 2 different building designs
Bouncing off is not possible with ANY design.
Or what’a bout Lady Liberty 🗽?! 😨
Fascinating.
The Empire State building was built of steel. If it was it hit it would’ve collapsed instantly. The world trade center were genius buildings. You clearly know nothing about structural engineering. You should look up Leslie Robertson engineering. He was the genius that made the towers stand. It’s because of him that they stood as long as they did and allowed thousands of people to leave.
So the wtc wasnt steel now? They shutting up
Depressed Ginger , did you know the John Hancock bldg in Chicago was supposed to be twin towers?
Cool video
wow awesome video just wow
It would still be awful and depressing...sooo how about them Lions uh they look good this year??
Make a video of the empire State building in 1945
Is he not talking about 1945 Plane Crash???
That crash was thousands of times less powerful than what happened on 9/11
It wouldn’t be as iconic. That is why. Quick answer….
Hi from France 🙂
Bonjour!
Mon cherie my darling.
hola
Well none of them would fall like melted candles.
What if all three were hit?
Good analysis, but they weren't hit by planes. It was controlled demolition by Lizard people - obviously.
😂
Look at you with all the good ideas.
a real building as opposed to 2 classless tuning forks
7:57 says it all
The Empire State building was struck by a b-52 bomber and it did not collapse do your homework man
The Empire State Building was hit by a Military Bomber Plane in the year of 1945. The reason why it got struck by a Bomber was because of extreme fog. The plane that hit the Empire State building was fully fueled. It was traveling about 450 to 565mph. When it struck the building.
More like 200 m.p.h.
Yeah, seriously doubt it was going 500 MPH.
@@MightBeAPizza Okay I stand corrected.
@@itzamia Okay I stand corrected. But the plane could get up to that speed.
The plane that hit the ESB was a B-25. It's maximum speed couldn't even reach 300 mph
Do a video for at night
As morbid as it is, we probably would have been better off
What if the terrorists attack the sears tower instead of the twin towers
Willis
@@CheeseMiserSEARS
Dummy
@@APerson-ni1gb is a failing company with boatloads of debt
Wow many times can someone say the same thing over and over?
taking notes
The empier st building was hit by a b25
What if it hit the Chrysler building🤔
What if all 3 got hit
What happened to bldg 7 ?
Google is your friend.
to be honest, i think that if we had the same szenario of the plane crash that happened with the empire state building in 1945, but it would hit one of the twin towers, the one whos got hit would also fell. after seeing this video, i really lost believe that the twin towers with they floor design could handle alot of damage, but as soon as a fire starts, the tower would collapse the almost same way, as it happened on 9/11 but of course taking longer. i just cant believe that they can survive a plane crash with an fire outbreak when i look at the thin and weak floors
Not the same scenario. A B-25, like the one that crashed into the ESB, is not remotely comparable to two Boeing 767s.
DG , how about a "what if" video where Mr. Stay Puft Marshmallow Man attacks the Twin Towers instead of Osama Bin Laden?
Only one way to find out
I'll answer your question! If Lucky Larry was the leaseholder of the empire state then yes! The building would collapse if hit by a plane(s).
🙄