I don't know yet if you figured it out (watching all your videos in order) but the reason for the temp difference with the iron is the inferred gun you're using can not accurately read glossy metal like that its calibrated only on black no reflective surfaces.
Thank you for showing the cloth coverage as you are. It does help understand how to do it well. I agree with your desire to do it right, because that is what makes the finished job really shine, and show your ability to build an outstanding example of the Kitfox. Keep up the good work and we do enjoy the videos!
Fabric covering reminds me of a long cross country car ride ... sit back and enjoy, this is going to take some time. I appreciate the comments and honesty of the frustration
I have the same iron and it is actually ok. I put a gun on it and got the same reading but it was a false reading. A friend borrowed it and didn’t believe me. Let it rest on a meat thermometer like the PF book says and it heats up fine. Something about the surface causes the gun to read wrong
At the ending demonstrates, you won't be falling into the old builder's trap of discovering, upon finishing a project, that you haven't flown in ages. Nice to have an airplane to fly during a project.
Nice thanks for sharing your build! My EAA chapter is putting together a Kitfox 2 all the covering and painting was done last weekend and if it wasn’t minus 4 today we would be putting tail feathers on this weekend. Covering comes with great reward at the cost of time and patience but it starts looking like a plane pretty quick..... Shalom
You asked about the time line, it is now too long. A good slow time line on the first covering, (procedures etc.) and then back to the first and last photo. (nice catch on the "my mistakes" comments). I noticed that there is no rib stitching on the tail surfaces. Something special about the Kitfox method? Another point: The first coat of hand brushed poly-brush is to go through the fabric. You are in effect encapsulating the fabric when you apply the next few coats of sprayed on polybrush. (Note this is the main fabric not just the tapes). When using the iron try using a piece of "baking sheet" between the iron and fabric. Poly-brush and Poly-spray will not stick to the iron. (Your wife knows what 'baking sheets' are for). Good on you for using the laser thermometer on the iron. The fabric will pull heat out of the iron and cool it off, may take a few minutes before the temp is back up again. You also mentioned that there was some "glue" coming out edge of the tape when you were using the iron to push down your pinked edges. I am assuming that is a slip of the tongue - brain function. (folks do not understand the difficulty of what you are doing in keeping up a continuous dialog). There should only be poly-brush under your tapes. I have found that in very difficult areas that a coat of glue on the tubing, and then a second coat when putting on the fabric, or: reactivating the glue with some acetone (and pushing and pulling) will help hold down errant fabric. You will actually see the glue come up through the weave. All in all you do nice work with dialog action.
Looks like great workmanship! Calibration of the iron is real important 4 sure. I had much the same problems with irons over the years and found that using a thermometer between cloth with good quality iron you could calibrate and mark the right settings on iron with marker and it's there when you do first second and third shrink to final. This fabric covering stuff is addictive too eh, maybe because of the fumes floating in your lungs ahah!! Lots of fresh air to the menu 4 sure!I Looking forward to finish!
Just watching your build series and thoroughly enjoying it. Having built numerous RC aircraft over the last 30 years, covering has become one of my favorite aspects of a build. I’ve been reading what folks say about not using the heat gun to shrink up the open bays, but have you considered using the heat gun to go around the rounded corners? Leave some extra covering material for you to grip and pull the fabric around the corners while hitting it with the gun. Pulls the wrinkles out while stretching it around the corners. Works great on modeling, but not sure about full-scale fabric. Thoughts? Thanks for this series. Makes me want to go out and buy a Kitfox!
Your build is really coming together nicely. I'm keen to see the Beringer Landing gear assembly you put on this aircraft. I saw a pic of the new Beringer carbon fiber fairings that look amazing. And of course your 300HP Apex engine.
Kitfox could offer its builders a week skinning your parts under instruction, supervision, and equipment like spraybooths or whatever. Taking the fear out of that part could get a lot more building going on.
Great vlog, Bryan. I have no experience covering or making fabric repairs...so my comments are not worth even 2 cents. I know polyfiber is a very popular covering process, probably the most popular; but it sure is labor intensive; and the chemicals are brutal. I wonder if that's why newer processes were developed with fewer steps(Airtech, SuperFlite, Stewart). The Stewart system seems to be gaining some favor because it's water born and not toxic. But I'm not sure if you can get that 'wet look' finish as with Aerothane or Ranthane. My Stinson is covered with the SuperFlite process, and I need to make some small repairs when the weather warms up next year, so I will get my first taste of fabric repair. Stinson guy.
I've covered a couple of Avid Flyers, plus couple of Kitfoxes, plus wings and such, all with poly fiber process. I've found that using a small spray gun instead of a brush for pre coating under the finish tapes speeds things up very well, and you don't get brush marks showing when you go out side of your pencil lines. I lay out all the pencil lines for the tapes, and coat them all before I put any tapes on. Also, just one coat of brushed on poly brush, but it should be heavy enough to be filling the weave on the back side of the fabric. Also, expecially when going over things like fuel tanks and such, you absolutely don't want a thin coat or you will get pin holes in later coats. Been there, done that. Keep at it though, you will figure out more short cuts as you go along. After I saw your first covering video, I liked the looks of the toko iron, but when I read reviews about it, I didn't order one. Jim
I was really disappointed with the Toko iron and I have tried to return it but they will not take it back after 30 days, so I then filled a warranty repair exchange request with Tokyo and they never responded in any way. I do not recommend the Toko iron at all. 😡
@@BowenAero Ya, bummer on the iron. would have been nice if they were good. I've always used clothes irons, but worry about the temperatures being accurate on them. I've used a thermometer and labeled the iron for the different temps, like poly fiber says in their book on page 14. I also have a hobby iron like yours, but it wont get up to real high heat, 275 at most. Something else to keep an eye on. Have fun! Jim
follow up to previous post... I checked out the Oratex site and discovered that in fact a heat gun can be used on the large non-contact surfaces as well as patching for in the field repairs, but it does look like the contact surfaces should be hot ironed to ensure the adhesive bond of material to frame.
I think we all can agree your doing a great job at every stage of your build. I do like that you added more of the step by step rather than start and finish as the one view asked, the time-laps is nice also. I notice the 1 beer also lol. Again Great JOB! are you going to sell any of your other planes?
Ah-ha! I saw those elven helpers at work -- no wonder you get so much done. What's the deadline about? You're not competing with Patey and his Scrappy, are you? Thanks for the video. Guys below nailed it about the process.
It's usual to put the trailing edge tape on first and bring the rib tapes over it, it might not look as neat but it's less likely to lift with the airflow.
Will you rib stitch the horizontal tail before calling it finished for paint or is it not necessary? With the airfoil shape and etc, would think it requires mechanical means of securing.
There's a startup business doing that because it's expensive and so time consuming that builders would gladly pay to have those sub assemblies done by craftsman. Include the poly brushing and painting. Mistakes add weight. If only the material was colored and no need for polyglass
I picked up this kit from a guy in Texas so that I could get building. Couldn't wait 18 months for a new kit. This particular airplane came with the standard wing, but I have a second wing that I will be making some modifications to for better STOL performance. Stay tuned for that side project. Should be testing it on my Model 5 early next year.
@@BowenAero I have been with Air Evac for 2 years in central Missouri. I came on board before the GMR merger. I never knew the small company atmosphere. Small world, I enjoy the videos. I am working over a O-200 engine and will take delivery on my fuselage kit in May.
@@dudleydr1 my experience is in vinyl application. Since the application of heat is not even, even with an iron and heat is applied only for a visual verification that the wrinkles are gone, calibrated heat shouldn't really be a factor as several passes vary the amount of heat applied anyway. I would be curious to know from the manufacturer if any tests have been conducted. I only ask for the purpose of time savings. Also, the structural strength of the material is achieved through multiple layers of coatings.
I don't know yet if you figured it out (watching all your videos in order) but the reason for the temp difference with the iron is the inferred gun you're using can not accurately read glossy metal like that its calibrated only on black no reflective surfaces.
Thank you for showing the cloth coverage as you are. It does help understand how to do it well. I agree with your desire to do it right, because that is what makes the finished job really shine, and show your ability to build an outstanding example of the Kitfox. Keep up the good work and we do enjoy the videos!
It's good to see your kids helping. This is such a great opportunity for them to learn attention to detail and patience. They are lucky kids.
I can't believe that only took 1 beer to cover that... It would take me at least 4. Thanks for sharing.
Fabric covering reminds me of a long cross country car ride ... sit back and enjoy, this is going to take some time. I appreciate the comments and honesty of the frustration
Time consuming but I find it a very satisfying and therapeutic process, and not just because of the dope!
I have the same iron and it is actually ok. I put a gun on it and got the same reading but it was a false reading. A friend borrowed it and didn’t believe me. Let it rest on a meat thermometer like the PF book says and it heats up fine. Something about the surface causes the gun to read wrong
At the ending demonstrates, you won't be falling into the old builder's trap of discovering, upon finishing a project, that you haven't flown in ages. Nice to have an airplane to fly during a project.
Nice thanks for sharing your build! My EAA chapter is putting together a Kitfox 2 all the covering and painting was done last weekend and if it wasn’t minus 4 today we would be putting tail feathers on this weekend. Covering comes with great reward at the cost of time and patience but it starts looking like a plane pretty quick.....
Shalom
You asked about the time line, it is now too long. A good slow time line on the first covering, (procedures etc.) and then back to the first and last photo. (nice catch on the "my mistakes" comments). I noticed that there is no rib stitching on the tail surfaces. Something special about the Kitfox method? Another point: The first coat of hand brushed poly-brush is to go through the fabric. You are in effect encapsulating the fabric when you apply the next few coats of sprayed on polybrush. (Note this is the main fabric not just the tapes). When using the iron try using a piece of "baking sheet" between the iron and fabric. Poly-brush and Poly-spray will not stick to the iron. (Your wife knows what 'baking sheets' are for). Good on you for using the laser thermometer on the iron. The fabric will pull heat out of the iron and cool it off, may take a few minutes before the temp is back up again. You also mentioned that there was some "glue" coming out edge of the tape when you were using the iron to push down your pinked edges. I am assuming that is a slip of the tongue - brain function. (folks do not understand the difficulty of what you are doing in keeping up a continuous dialog). There should only be poly-brush under your tapes. I have found that in very difficult areas that a coat of glue on the tubing, and then a second coat when putting on the fabric, or: reactivating the glue with some acetone (and pushing and pulling) will help hold down errant fabric. You will actually see the glue come up through the weave. All in all you do nice work with dialog action.
Looks like great workmanship! Calibration of the iron is real important 4 sure. I had much the same problems with irons over the years and found that using a thermometer between cloth with good quality iron you could calibrate and mark the right settings on iron with marker and it's there when you do first second and third shrink to final. This fabric covering stuff is addictive too eh, maybe because of the fumes floating in your lungs ahah!! Lots of fresh air to the menu 4 sure!I Looking forward to finish!
Just watching your build series and thoroughly enjoying it. Having built numerous RC aircraft over the last 30 years, covering has become one of my favorite aspects of a build. I’ve been reading what folks say about not using the heat gun to shrink up the open bays, but have you considered using the heat gun to go around the rounded corners? Leave some extra covering material for you to grip and pull the fabric around the corners while hitting it with the gun. Pulls the wrinkles out while stretching it around the corners. Works great on modeling, but not sure about full-scale fabric. Thoughts? Thanks for this series. Makes me want to go out and buy a Kitfox!
Your build is really coming together nicely. I'm keen to see the Beringer Landing gear assembly you put on this aircraft. I saw a pic of the new Beringer carbon fiber fairings that look amazing. And of course your 300HP Apex engine.
Very impressed... one day... keep up the hard work!
Thanks for sharing Brian!
Great leadership.
Kitfox could offer its builders a week skinning your parts under instruction, supervision, and equipment like spraybooths or whatever. Taking the fear out of that part could get a lot more building going on.
Awe build Brian, great detail and info..
Great vlog, Bryan. I have no experience covering or making fabric repairs...so my comments are not worth even 2 cents. I know polyfiber is a very popular covering process, probably the most popular; but it sure is labor intensive; and the chemicals are brutal. I wonder if that's why newer processes were developed with fewer steps(Airtech, SuperFlite, Stewart). The Stewart system seems to be gaining some favor because it's water born and not toxic. But I'm not sure if you can get that 'wet look' finish as with Aerothane or Ranthane. My Stinson is covered with the SuperFlite process, and I need to make some small repairs when the weather warms up next year, so I will get my first taste of fabric repair. Stinson guy.
I've covered a couple of Avid Flyers, plus couple of Kitfoxes, plus wings and such, all with poly fiber process. I've found that using a small spray gun instead of a brush for pre coating under the finish tapes speeds things up very well, and you don't get brush marks showing when you go out side of your pencil lines. I lay out all the pencil lines for the tapes, and coat them all before I put any tapes on. Also, just one coat of brushed on poly brush, but it should be heavy enough to be filling the weave on the back side of the fabric. Also, expecially when going over things like fuel tanks and such, you absolutely don't want a thin coat or you will get pin holes in later coats. Been there, done that. Keep at it though, you will figure out more short cuts as you go along. After I saw your first covering video, I liked the looks of the toko iron, but when I read reviews about it, I didn't order one. Jim
I was really disappointed with the Toko iron and I have tried to return it but they will not take it back after 30 days, so I then filled a warranty repair exchange request with Tokyo and they never responded in any way. I do not recommend the Toko iron at all. 😡
@@BowenAero Ya, bummer on the iron. would have been nice if they were good. I've always used clothes irons, but worry about the temperatures being accurate on them. I've used a thermometer and labeled the iron for the different temps, like poly fiber says in their book on page 14. I also have a hobby iron like yours, but it wont get up to real high heat, 275 at most. Something else to keep an eye on. Have fun! Jim
follow up to previous post... I checked out the Oratex site and discovered that in fact a heat gun can be used on the large non-contact surfaces as well as patching for in the field repairs, but it does look like the contact surfaces should be hot ironed to ensure the adhesive bond of material to frame.
I think we all can agree your doing a great job at every stage of your build. I do like that you added more of the step by step rather than start and finish as the one view asked, the time-laps is nice also. I notice the 1 beer also lol. Again Great JOB! are you going to sell any of your other planes?
I will sell the Kitfox 5 when I'm done building this one.
Hard Work and appreciate the video
Definitely doing Oratex when I build mine...nothing to give me cancer either.
Ah-ha! I saw those elven helpers at work -- no wonder you get so much done.
What's the deadline about? You're not competing with Patey and his Scrappy, are you?
Thanks for the video. Guys below nailed it about the process.
It's usual to put the trailing edge tape on first and bring the rib tapes over it, it might not look as neat but it's less likely to lift with the airflow.
Will you rib stitch the horizontal tail before calling it finished for paint or is it not necessary? With the airfoil shape and etc, would think it requires mechanical means of securing.
Not necessary, I did consider it. My model 5 is not stitched and I have had no negative effects.
There's a startup business doing that because it's expensive and so time consuming that builders would gladly pay to have those sub assemblies done by craftsman. Include the poly brushing and painting. Mistakes add weight. If only the material was colored and no need for polyglass
what made you go with the regular wing instead of the STi wing
I picked up this kit from a guy in Texas so that I could get building. Couldn't wait 18 months for a new kit. This particular airplane came with the standard wing, but I have a second wing that I will be making some modifications to for better STOL performance. Stay tuned for that side project. Should be testing it on my Model 5 early next year.
what are you going to do with this build? ? Will you sell, or Fly ? will you sell your current KF
This will be my long term airplane. I plan on selling the model 5 when I complete and fly the SS7
Project Kitfox, that’s great news! I hope I’m in the market when that happens
Notice the Reach swag, are you an AMGH guy?
REACH original for 14 years now. Got swept into the AMGH machine kicking and screaming. It has got so big, sure miss the smaller company atmosphere.
@@BowenAero I have been with Air Evac for 2 years in central Missouri. I came on board before the GMR merger. I never knew the small company atmosphere. Small world, I enjoy the videos. I am working over a O-200 engine and will take delivery on my fuselage kit in May.
Hey Brother... Is it possible to use a heat gun? at least on final pass
Vicarious Air Calibrated heat is key to proper shrinkage so a heat gun is not ideal. You should check your iron every few minutes even.
@@dudleydr1 my experience is in vinyl application. Since the application of heat is not even, even with an iron and heat is applied only for a visual verification that the wrinkles are gone, calibrated heat shouldn't really be a factor as several passes vary the amount of heat applied anyway. I would be curious to know from the manufacturer if any tests have been conducted. I only ask for the purpose of time savings. Also, the structural strength of the material is achieved through multiple layers of coatings.
NO NO NO never use a heat gun, you cannot control the temperature and it's easy to melt the fabric.
@@kenskelso Check the Oratex site... they refer to using a heat gun on large areas.
@@VicariousAir Brian is not using Oratex. Poly Fiber is designed to shrink at specific amounts at specific temperatures.