Ideal Volume For Maximum Gains (6 Factors)
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- Опубліковано 24 лип 2024
- There are a lot of factors that go into deciding how much training volume to do for maximum gains. It's a personal experimental journey, and hopefully this video helps.
Timestamps:
00:00 Factor 1: Proximity To Failure (RIR)
03:52 The Failure/Volume Continuum
05:57 High OR Low Volume Can BOTH Be Effective
08:19 Factor 2: The Movement
09:58 Compound Interest
11:47 Some Movements Beat You Up
13:17 Factor 3: The Muscle Group
15:03 Factor 4: Intensity and Absolute Loading
16:32 Factor 5: Frequency
18:00 Factor 6: Genetics and Training History
19:32 Ridiculous Straw Man Example
22:35 Bye Have A Good Day
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If you managed to suffer through this video, you'll definitely be able to force yourself to get through my book, too.
Currently on sale, 50% off: >>> www.verityfit.com/product-page/sweat
Appreciate the support and allowing me to keep making videos!
Smooth and shameless plug.
@@helphowdoinputusername3571 hey, at least I'm not plugging my book on other videos like some UA-camrs do...
@@GVS I totally don't know who you are talking abouter than last time.
@@GVS Lol I'm just talking about how you transitioned into it. Nothing wrong with plugging your stuff. I mean, how else are you gonna sell them right?
I just like to see when people seamlessly transition into a plug/sponsor/or subscribe kinda thing cause it's always funny. Like a smooth criminal 😂
@@helphowdoinputusername3571 yea it's smooth because I only remember when the book is actually relevant to what I just said haha. Otherwise I totally forget.
Raises hand! Coach? I don’t fail. I’m not a failure!
Was that from the Broffesor
16:20 "a 20x20", I see you've been doing your Jeff Cavalier squats
Grow 20 inch on your quads every 20 days
Low volume + high intensity on big compounds, higher volume + lower intensity on variations/assistance exercises is the perfect mix.
Yeah, thats also pretty much what I do, tho I rarely go very high reps, because I absolutely hate doing sets above 15 reps
@@justhair17 I've been trying out 5s, 8s, 12s, 15s & 20s on small isolations (over years), I've found that 15 is the lowest that I get a mean pump from. BUT, that's ME.
@@Horus-Lupercal I agree that it gives you a better pump, but 1. pump =/= muscle growth. 2. Sets above 15 reps burn like crazy
@@justhair17 The rep range you avoid is usually the one you need after a while.
@@Oyashio202 yeah, there is some truth to that, thats why I try to do at least one exercise with like 15 reps per muscle group
This channel has become my absolute favorite! I actually enjoy learning about workingout without the drama.
Thanks! :)
Yup 100% good points. At one point I did 2 sets per bodypart per week to concentric failure and that's it. It was when I was really busy with life with zero time to spare. I still grew because I strived for progressive overload and got constantly stronger over time.
Yup overload is really key.
3:34 time to slow down the video so I can write down your whole book
Ha, if you can manage that, I'd be OK with it actually lol.
Or, ya know...15 bucks.
Your editing has leveled up for sure. Great vid as always
Thanks Coach. One set has worked great for me. 💪🏽😎
Lowkey falling in love with your videos definitely worth the watch
Really liked it bro and really informative.
Great topic! Optimal volume & failure are 2 of the most misunderstood training concepts.
Your whirlwind failure attack edit was hilarious pal! 😂
Really enjoy your videos! Thanks so much!
Top tier UA-cam channel , Geoff. Up there with Geoff Nippard, Jeremy Ethier , AlphaDestiny and Renaissance periodisation, to name a few.
Thanks, honored to be on that list!
nice to see mentzer mentioned, his program of two working sets was similar to what you described, 5-10 rep set done in 4040 tempo to literal failure, then straight away - in 2 to 4 seconds - you go into a drop set, also done in 4040 tempo, and when you reach literal failure your partner helps you do a couple more 4-5 second eccentrics. id like to see people who say low volume is not enough try this.
For deadlifts I do 1x5 and see strength increases on par with all my other exercises when I typically do 3 or 4 sets. I feel like the lower volume is less stressful on my back.
So my low back is mentzer and my arms are Arnold 😎
Is it low volume when intensity technique is used
I would say throughout most of the year I hover around "technical failure,+1 intensity technique"
rep speed failure is generally for program ramping and deload.
Way beyond failure is 1-2 weeks before deload for me.
Very helpful that you examined the various definitions of failure and how this plays into people misinterpreting prescribed volume in a given program. You also shed light on individual variation, muscle group variation and the caviot of rep range. This is the most comprehensive video I've seen yet on how volume and intensity play on each other... and how people debate this topic when really their training is more similar than they realize.
Another great video, Geoff. Thank you.
Very welcome!
It's actually sad that noobs get exposed to such shit channes. It too me like 1.5 years to find you. Your content is so much fuckin better than all that garbage out there.
Keep it up
Thisis quality content geoff that chart is amazing and i was searching for something like this
I really appreciate the quality of your content Geoff 🏔
Much appreciated!
Good video Geoffrey! Your channel has quickly become one of my favorites because you give so much good information!
Thanks :)
Awesome channel! One of my favorites, someone linked you in Lyle's facebook group, glad I found you
Oh cool. Welcome to the channel!
Awesome video. Very informative and I've been lifting for over 30 years!
Appreciate that!
I think it's better for beginners to do higher volume with lower intensity simply because you have to learn to do the movements properly and practice, and as a beginner you can get results without pushing as hard as later down the road. Later on, I think going for more intensity and less volume is better for recovery. Good to see a video that says both can work. It really depends on the person. Too often, you see people stay in one camp and anyone else is wrong.
Loved this one !
Lol editing is gold😂😂
Excellent video!
P.S.: Love the humour (esp. the self-deprecating & self-burns) and esp. the 2:25 to 2:45 bit! :-D
P.P.S.: Am more than half-way through your book -- pretty good so far!!
More power to you, Geoff!
Appreciate the support!
One thing I learned from this:
Geoff loves his joints
Here's a comment for those engagement stats. A sacrifice for Algorithmus the Great.
Your edits are just so hilarious lol
Geoff loves joints! (even more than the editor)
Outstanding video! Great info which I hope everyone latches on to.
I was around back in the day (age alert) when it was Mentzer vs Arnold. HIT vs Volume. That battle still exists to this very day and what each side fails to understand is it's not an "either/or" zero sum game. BOTH WAYS WORK. It's about how you program and what your mentality is.
For me, when I hear someone saying do "one set to failure" or "15-20 sets a week" or you won't grow I have to take in consideration what kind of sets they are talking about because I know that volume and intensity are mutually exclusive and that both ways work. Well, unless your shooting up the breakfast of champions. I'm not talking Wheaties here. At that point all bets are off.
Going to go for the book. After this video I'm curious as to what else you got to say. $15? I've paid more than that to watch naked women dance and woke up the next morning with a hangover and a blue set of stones. At least I'll get something out of this.
Yes and the 1980 Olympia just fueled the debate even more, I'm sure.
You'll definitely enjoy the book. It's detailed yet readable, reviews have been really good, I've been blown away by the feedback!
Great video, thanks!
I'm currently doing one set to failure, followed immediately by a drop set to failure. I'm getting stronger, and seemingly putting on some mass. Letting go of the volume has been strange, but there have been results so far. It will be interesting to see how it plays out over time.
How did it work out?
How it go
@@5milemacc737 Well, the years of heavy volume (together with the way I’m built and possibly some questionable posture) resulted in a full thickness tear of a supraspinatus tendon during 100lb decline dumbbell presses after my post.
I have had rotator cuff surgery and I have been using the same training concept in recovery and beyond. I’m an old guy, and my focus isn’t hypertrophy, so much as overall strength and mobility.
In my 50’s, I’ve actually put on some mass and gained strength using this post-surgery. There are exercises I no longer do to protect my shoulder, though. For example I don’t do standard deadlifts anymore, going with gentler (and lighter) Romanians. High pressing exercises are no longer a part of my life. 🙁 I miss the OHP, but not as much as I’d miss being able to carry a bag of groceries with my left arm. My lower body has seen more mass gain, but it was lagging behind upper body in the first place. I have more in my chest and shoulders, and my biceps are 1/4-1/2 inch bigger than before the shoulder injury. Again, size isn’t my focus, but I’ve seen some, anyway.
For most exercises, I do a light warmup set and then a priming set of 6 reps at about 80 percent of my top weight. I then do a set to failure, followed by an immediate drop set to failure, followed by another immediate drop set to failure. (Squats don’t go to absolute failure, for obvious reasons.). Sometimes I’ll tack on an extra negative/static hold set if I’m feeling naughty. I do an upper/lower body split, going more or less every other day. I do stationary bike and swimming on off days, and I’ll take extra rest days when I feel the need.
Is this approach optimal for pure hypertrophy? No idea. But it is increasing my strength (and even some size) in my 50’s, while I also do endurance and mobility training. One of my concerns is that the extra mass is making me a little less mobile (or maybe I’m just old). I used to do kickboxing, and now I feel like rusty aircraft carrier when changing direction. 😄
It may be worth a try. It’s great for me, but I’m just an old man trying to hold his body together for as long as possible.
Bro died of hyper-hypertrophying. Muscles blew up so big he couldn’t reach his mouth with a knife and fork. RIP
@@shrexyboi1850 Steady, incremental gains. I was never going for pure mass, so I don’t have a bodybuilder lifestyle. I do a lot of cardio and mobility stuff, so everything is geared toward general fitness. I’m well into my 50’s, though, and I can still gain strength and some muscle while maintaining a general fitness routine.
I don’t know if it’s optimal for pure hypertrophy, but for fitness and function (and some aesthetics), it’s still working well for this old guy.
So glad this channel isn’t monetized. They would demonitize this for the word “joint” immediately XD.
Very informative content btw, bought ur book a couple weeks back. Keep it up!
Appreciate the support!
Appreciate the support!
This is a great video. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Big compound lifts become exponentially risky when taken to, or very close to, failure. That's why weightlifters and powerlifters don't do it with snatch, CJ, back squat, etc. At least routinely. But are still big and strong.
Better approach is to use high enough weight above 80% of 1RM and use non failure sets. Every single rep at such loads is maximally effective right from first rep and failure is not needed for maximum fiber activation. Christian Thib has mentioned this point in one of his UA-cam videos.
21:28 The rack pull killed me 😂
Geoffrey, you are loo king good in this hairstyle and trimmed beard 👍👍
Makes me miss my Shenzhen days...
Great video.
This level of stubble looks flattering
Quadruple drop set on deficit deadlifts sound like a cool idea. Maybe I’ll try them next leg session.
Prepare for hell!
@@GVS I was kidding, but this comment has actually got me pumped to try. 💪 Don’t worry, I’ve been lifting for years, I’ll be careful.
Never actually got myself to do it 😂
@@darthghitza8037 go for it
If anyone saw this and felt blue balled go check out Eddie hall death by deadlift
I'm totally stealing "Mentzer Failure" I love that.
Commenting for the algorithm 👍💪
For me failure is when i grind a rep and i cannot get full ROM. Every time I start a new meso I tell myself "ok this time im gonna go 3-1 RIR", but I end up going to failure in pretty much every set anyway (isolation movements ofc), maybe i would get better results by holding off a bit, but it is so hard to stop 3 RIR, i feel like i'm not doing anything, barely a warm up.
I'm the same way. There's just something in my nature that really makes it hard to hold back. People think I'm doing a hard set for Instagram or a UA-cam video but it's just a random set I had on my phone.
I often get better results from moderate volume programs compared to high volume ones because of it. Ultimately, knowing yourself is key.
This is spot on I’m the same way and I don’t know why I’m like this
Always look both ways before crossing the street, and before cheating on bicep curls. That was a classic set, lol. 🏋️♂️
Gotta make sure there are enough people around to notice how perfect my cheating is.
Great video and yeah there's definitely a volume-intensity trade-off and the optimum lies somewhere differently depending on individuals and how you actually like to train.
Personally my chest was lagging loads half a year ago and recently cutting my volume and focusing on fewer but intense sets has been great for progression and results. I know I definitely hid from doing intense sets but doing fluff volume which is shit for progress imo.
Amazing video
Thanks!
Loaded shoulder whirlwinds to failure, got it!
Also, agree that volitional "failure" is basically f@cking around and wasting time. Grindy rep is the sign that I may end the set, and that assuming that the exercise is not suited for going to failure. Otherwise I would wonder later if I actually trained and if you need to ask yourself such a question then probably the answer is "not hard enough".
Yup, if someone can't tell the difference between a warmup set and working set, probably not really a working set.
You should make a seperate video on Mentzer sets, the pros & cons, it's application etc.
Yea a lot of it is individual, experiment and as long as you’re adhering to the most crucial principle of them all (progressive overload) you tailor it how you want. For example personally my back (mid and lats at least) hardly ever get sore so I can go ham there with volume but with hammies and bi’s (tho the back workload probably affects that one) I have to reel it in a little.
The mass of an individual muscle/group matters for recovery as well. Muscles that are actually big take a bit longer to recover, which can cause problems trying to optimize work/rest periods if you’re working out with someone significantly bigger or smaller than you.
Bar speed failure is often used in weightlifting, where athletes need to be explosive
thumbs up! more michael Jackson! that was awesome:)
From what I've seen you consider it failure after the 6th grinder and the third popped blood vessel
my thoughts are hit them all , sprinkle the different volume to intensity techniques into your programming .
Yea that's definitely an option!
Other UA-camrs: “I can’t show that! It’s embarrassing!”
Geoffrey: “that’s funny s#*+! Educational too. Definitely including that in the video”
This man is legend.
I have heard of calf tears in rugby league, it's not super common, but it does happen.
I use to train 6 days 2.5 hour sessions basically going to failure on everything and i was legitimately going to failure. I put on some muscle but overall i got to single digit body fat but lost so much muscle after years of that, i was 69 kgs like 8 years ago,now i do 2x low Volume to absolute failure and beyond on mostly everything and im 103 kg probably 19 to 22,% body fat rite now ,yet put on a good amount of lean mass
so long story short low volume 3 sets for compounds to failure,on isolations ill do usually MYO reps combined with drop sets. Try everything once dont get dug down by dogma and modern trends, try all forms of training to see what works for u
Just got the SWEAT book. Nice bargain at $15. A lot of good info and work went into it.
Yup took a few months of basically just that. Appreciate the support!
Great initial greeting lmao
2:45 I think most of the time, it's not a conscious decision, it's just when you get tired, your body will naturally try to shift away from the fatigued muscles, and it's something you need to train not to do.
Yes this is a big downside of some compounds for some people, they don't work the area they want very easily.
I do most of my sets stopping just short of failure (0-1 reps in reserve), sometimes using short pauses for the last rep. But I do my last set for each muscle in a session going well past failure, usually doing like a 50 rep dropset with the same starting weight (5X10).
just stopping by to feed the almighty algorithm
Brilliant
Didn’t notice congrats on 13k
Thanks :) things are accelerating should hit 14k in a few days.
@@GVS You still gotta beat natural hypertrophy to 15k tho.
@@jim7666 Think I got this, unless he gets a viral video (Josh Brett went ~1-2k to 30k+ with essentially one video, for example...and very well deserved indeed!).
But yea...if NH beats me to 15k honestly that's a win for UA-cam fitness anyway.
@@GVS
So it’s a win-win then
This man has a brain!
My ideal volume is about the mid-point, music is loud enough to motivate me but not enough to cause tinnitus
Ziiiing
All your videos have interesting topics and every time there is something to learn. It's very refreshing since a lot of the content on yt is just drama. Even your videos about yt and other influences are good. 👍 I dont mean to give you a cyber bj, but since you create really good content the least I could do is tell you I really like it.
Thanks for introducing the word cyber BJ into my life 😄, let's say the rest of YT fitness is so awful, it can hard not to feel the urge or cyber BJ-ing Geof or Sean Nal
The collar seems calmer today.
For the algorithm 💪🏻
👊👊👊
At 3:54, are those set recommendations weekly or per session? I'm assuming they're per muscle group (rather than exercise) because they go as high as 30+ sets.
Actually calf tears (called achilles tendon tear/rupture) are some of the most common tendon ruptures especially in runners,sprinters,basketball players and soccer players.These people when competitive or training seriously have at least a 10% lifetime chance of achilles tendon rupture so it's extremely common
Usually problems come at the achilles before the calf but yea I'll admit they are probably more common than some other muscles (trap, forearms, etc)
What about using the rest pause approach with lighter loads, like the myo-rep approach? Aren't you going to failure with lighter loads, thereby getting growth while keeping the joints fine?
Yes that can work. Myo reps is essentially using metabolic stress to increase fatigue and thus muscle activation, getting more effective reps in less time with weights that won't beat you up.
Always remember it's a marathon not a sprint... Progressive overload over a long period of time never fails. Just focus on 1 more rep than last time. Once you get to 10 to 12 reps for 3 to 4 sets, add weight and start back a 5 reps. Yes it's slow but for natty guys it gives your tendons and ligaments time to recover and grow too. Been doing it for 20 years. No injuries. But my numbers keep going up. Year after year.
Now that I'm closer to 100yo than 0yo, I'm in maintenance mode and still going strong...
I can confirm sets of 5 get my hams super sore on deficit deadlifts.
I do not understand how Mike Isreatel says you can survive 16 sets of hip hinges per week. Like dafuq?
@@welshdragon2927 i mean, if by hip hinges you mean kettlebell swings, good mornings or hip trusts, i could see it, but on any deadlift variation that sounds like hell to me
Hey.....what do you have against quadrupeds? My dog is insulted.
This video is also applicable to some extent to calisthenics athlete.
Wish you had used a clip of Jeff Nippard on RiR 0 vs attempting that final rep (which fails) 🤣
I've seen him go to failure before, on squats, no less.
I find that my Quads are always about to explode even after doing just 1 to 2 medium intensity sets. Should I try doing just 1 set of ultra intensity on the squat or do you think more volume with lower intensity is going to suit me better? Will experiment with both in the long run but I would like to listen to your opinion first.
So would it be reccomended to go technical failure for each set? Wondering because I rarely go to failure when sticking to a strict rep range
I know this is an old video, but can the DC low volume approach work with a full body routine 2-4 times a week?
Is this an acceptable a safe way to figure your 1 RM: doing your 3-4 rep max and then dividing that? I lift alone mostly and a rep max for me means if I do the next rep my form will suffer more than its worth to do the rep. Its how I've been calculating it but idk what's generally accepted.
weightrainer.net/mrcalc2.html
I use that. Works quite well.
Cool 👍
It seems like I stick my butt out way more when I’m doing a RDL. Maybe I’m wrong?
4:50 ahem, wtf
Intensity, bro.
5:07 POP POP
hey geo quick question so is periodization important when it comes to hypertrophy or is it jut for performance type athletes and very specific goals ?
Will do a full video. Think it can help but not 100% necessary for most people.
Between hammy curls and RDLs, I do both. I feel like they hit different parts of my hamstrings
They do hit different parts lol
@@seanmurphy6136 😎 I stopped doing ham curls because I don't want that mass
💪💪💪💪
People also have to keep in mind that doing more volume burns more calories so some hardgainers or people that have trouble eating more should focus more on intensity.
🐐
2:22 GVS's failure on biceps curl
Hey Coach Geoff, this comment is coming late, but I wanna know about your views of the mindvalley superhero body program or something in that sorta line. Is it legit or a far fetched scam as they claim to workout only 30 minutes a week for a superhero body. Getting ads of that quite a lot now.
Anyway, very important and informative video, this is.👍
I'm not familiar with them. Sounds like more marketing than substance.
Yea I think incorporating drop sets till death is a very time efficient low volume training method 😂
“What’s up bipeds” glad we’re not excluding the feathered men here
Got confused…thought volume was in reference to music…now I can’t hear anything!!!! Hahahaha
I miss that broken clock...
Maybe I can try to hang it on the backdrop haha
I guess I know what I will do tomorrow it's time for whirlwind attack failure 😁