@@BigFujiLittleFilm not just superior. SKS is a realistic option because the bullet production at that time doesn’t support a fully automatic strategy. China in Korean war do equip lots of SMG (PPsh) and LMG in combat unit. The so called, 3-3 formation is a system of different 3 man team equip with auto weapons that each charge and fire support executed by different 3 man team at different timing. So the fire is constantly and kinda reason why us think China rely on number. It’s not just number, but split into very small units. Anyway, the major problem of volunteers army is logistics. Night raid spend lots of bullet while volunteers army is a light infantry focus force where no air support exist. They do did well on against invaders but the logistics problem result in casualties and failure to push further forward than 38line. When goes to conflict with India, the weapon and logistics has been improve but the economic is still the first priority, army received upgrade but the resource is restricted. The semi auto rifle combine with automatic rifle (56 smg) become a major form of infantry squad. And you can said its kinda like the legacy of doctrine from Korean War. Where both fire and logistic matter.
“火力不足恐惧症”is the current and ongoing meme for the PLA, coined by the Chinese internet, it mean "The fear of not enough firepower syndrome". The PLA learned its lesson from observing the Gulf War.
@@99jean88it means the Chinese fears having little firepower because the gulf war was the first widely reported foreign conflict in China and it shows how advanced the US military are and how overwhelming firepower are important in modern warfare to China.
To be accurate, the “lack of firepower” mentality was started from the Korean War, when the PLA was fighting the US/UN army with severe lack of…everything.
It funny considering the Chinese developed a full auto version of the sks. Also all the norinco versions that take ak mags, its like they constantly try to turn it into the ak
The type 63 was a cross between an sks and AK. If you saw the rifle taken apart you’d see. I’d love to find a type 63 front sight block to complete a project I’ve been working on for a decade but those kind of parts don’t come around much unfortunately.
Also its quite full of propaganda, funny thing is, when usa was friendly to china they wrote “indias china war” that actually proves that it was india that started it, but they back track since they want into now to counter china 😅
The Indian war was not the only time PLA had firepower superiority, in the war with VietNam in the late 1970s-1980s, they already had the "GFSS"(Get Fire Superiority Syndrome) and rained upon the Viet army with artillery whenever they had even minimum resistance. In fact in this war the PLA consumed a majority of their artillery reserves, and in the later stage of this war, the war was used as "drill" for PLA to get their soldiers "dirty", which somehow cleared the path (from military conservative factions) for Deng Xiaoping to perform the economic reform that shaped China's dramatic transformation.
And also their fixation on a combination of light, automatic grenade launchers and semi-auto "sniper" grenade launchers, in preference to SAW's and GPMG's. China, once again, seems to be drawing the wrong lessons, and they think that a light automatic grenade launcher like the QLZ-87 or a "precision" semi-auto grenade launcher like the QLU-11 can fill the same role of suppressing fire and saturation fire as a machine gun. The problem is the low volume of fire, vastly reduced ammo capacity, etc. and the fact their 35mm grenades aren't nearly as lethal as NATO's 40mm grenades. The PF-98 120mm rocket launcher, as you noted, seems to have taken the place of older recoilless rifles and reduced the number of ATGM's they use. It's cheap, it's unguided, but it provides mobile firepower that can act as a light, direct-fire artillery piece for infantry support or in lieu of a proper anti-tank weapon, so the Chinese are in love with it. There's an old saying about small arms, "The French copy no one, and no one copies the French." There should be a similar saying about Chinese preferences for weapons.
Also explains why they have the lightest and most portable 50 cal machinegun ever made. The QJZ-171 is literally a 12.7mm PKM, much lighter and more mobile than any other heavy machinegun of its class. It weighs 18.5 kg compared to the American M2 which weighs 28kg and it has a 6kg tripod comped to the 15kg M205 tripod of the M2. Also to keep in mind the M205 is the light tripod of the M2, the standard one weighs 22kg, more than the QJZ-171 itself. That means that 3 PLA soldiers can sprint at nearly full speed while carrying the machinegun, the tripod and a few hundred rounds of ammo, Or they can climb stiff mountain cliffs in that configuration. It has proven its effectiveness in Africa where militias made Motorcycle and ATV tehnicals with the QJZ. Again, that's a 12.7mm machinegun attached to a motorcycle. THAT'S how light and mobile it is.
@@daniels0376 The problem with that is that while the gun is portable, it also bounces around a lot more and isn't as stable, making accuracy a matter of luck. It also doesn't last as long before parts break.
@@Type56_Ordnance_Dept would you eventually do a vid of how the type 56 became the most common AK type in world, seeing action in Ukraine 🇺🇦 as part of the supplies Americans got after intercepting shipments destined for Yemen as part of operation prosperity guardian
I believe the parable about choosing an SKS over an AK for a long shot; the SKS trigger isn't bad and the sites are basically the same but with like double the length between them, the longer sight radius alone makes the SKS much easier to shoot
It is interesting that the chinese doctrin seems to be an allgamation of american and german ideas about infanty tactics. "Every man a marksman" combined with "Stoss- und Sturmtruppen".
It's funny, I keep waiting to find sources where the tacticians/trainers/staff officers betray some evidence that they're studying American doctrine. But so far, I'm coming up empty.
@@Type56_Ordnance_Deptprecisely, American infantry doctrine in the modern day comes from American marine observers with the KMT learning Chinese small unit tactics and the concept of the fireteam.
@@Type56_Ordnance_Dept Evens Carlson, who went on to command the 2nd Marine Raiders Battalion in WW2, spent 1937-1939 with the 8th Route Army as a military observer. Having spent that long with them, and admiring them as much as he did, I can't help but think he probably taught them a thing or two about Marine tactics while he was there.
@@goforbroke4428the kmt rejected american doctrine, and chaing butted heads with many us officers that lead to the estrangement which caused the usa to abandon the kmt
The kmt adopted prussian or german tactics, in fact their best german trained troops held up a huge amount of japanese in shiang hai but it was eventually destroyed
This is a great series. The subject of the PLA is almost completely unknown on UA-cam; you could grow a main channel on the subject and dominate. Well done! Thank you!
This is an incredibly fascinating and enjoyable channel. I love the history behind the PRC and the USSR, as a stamp collector of these two regions there's lots of great history contained in the stamps to research! However with military history like this, it is something that you don't see well documented on UA-cam. There's lots of books about these subjects however condensing it into a video series allows for a wider range of people to maybe become interested. It's even interesting knowing that India and China still have border disputes, where they've reached a agreement not to use firearms but to go back to using handheld weapons like sticks and swords.
Dear lord you weren't kidding about the Indian Army being equipped for 1944 in 1962. I love learning about this stuff. I was willingly a self taught WWII history nerd in the 70s and 80s. When I was at University, the emphasis was heavy on a very recently ended Cold War. I knew about organization and equipment used by the USSR because that was my expected adversary. My grandpa was a Hump pilot in WWII but the PLA post Korea is something of a mystery to me - much appreciate these lessons. Subscribed. I almost regret selling my Norinco SKS!
Didn't realize this was such a new channel, you got my sub. Usually chinese history and especially military history is glazed over as "Soviet copy, bad quality". Very interested in the future of this channel
Will be following this channel, this level of detail just for one military and its peculiarities in weapon selection is the kind of stuff that tickles my tism.
what an excellent video, thoroughly enjoyed it , liked and subbed. I happen to be an SKS owner (here in Canada), been plinking with it for a while, hope to go deer hunting with it some day once I become really good with it.
@@AC130rus I used to look down on the Indian military due to their less-than-stellar performance in 1962 (covered by this vid), but now I know there were objective factors at play, mainly gap in firepower and mobility. I heard good words about the modern Indian infantry, but Indian domestic weapons industry seems to have a long way to go. Buying everything abroad is not a good long-term strategy. I am against oppression against the Tibetans and I know many Tibetan exiles serve along the Sino-Indian border. I have nothing against them. However, regardless of the type of government in Beijing, I don't think we Chinese will be willing to give up the strategic Tibetan plateau.
@@Seth9809 that is a very small sample size, if his results are to be used to represent the whole - russia-made civilian ak are less accurate than average(iirc the 5.45 ones were around 5moa instead of 3-4moa).
Very good, but you need to make a playlist with these stories it's quite manual to watch these videos. Looking forward to enjoying more of your videos.
To add to your point, Chinese mountain scouts / infiltrators were noted fierce fighters during the decade long Sino - Vietnamese border war, especially during the 1984 battle of Vị Xuyên, after the reforms took place and the adoptions of the Type 81 assault rifle. Many of them spoke fluent Vietnamese and were familiar with the terrain, from their years of working with their friend-turned-enemy.
Very western point of view on military weaponry. The SKS was adopted due to its logistics, geopolitics, doctrine, and battlefield performance. The Chinese knew they wanted an automatic rifle and had worked to bridge the gap. However, against western powers, AK-47 or SKS didn't matter as they knew that they have to infiltrate and use light infantry maneuver to get in close to negate naval and air superiority. What you forget that the USSR became their largest enemy even against India. India was pro-soviet and the war was fought when the USSR wanted China's support on the cuban missile crisis. The SKS proved accuracy and range that was important in the large empty areas of the northern borders where the land was flat, China's defensive posture dedicated need that range. At that range, machine gun pretty much makes up for suppression. Then lastly, doctrine, the people's war is the main core doctrine of the PLA. Through a long war, China's ammunition disadvantage and the fact that the main core of China is infantry and militias, magazine and ammunition limit constraints are what planners have to decide. Arming every peasant with an SKS is what China did, however the factory manufacturing of magazines and springs are not something they could do. During guerilla warfare, production of ammunition can be done in the country side or they can loot it off Soviets but won't be enough. Magazines would make the production line worst and distribution won't be good enough. The PLA does in fact know it but squad level weapons aren't the priority. AK47s doesn't fit their doctrine which is why they made the Type 81, it bridges the gap of range/accuracy that they wanted. However, by the time it came out it only served in Vietnam as the USSR collapse in 1991 and the US and China were geo-political allies by 1970s. Which is why the Type 95 which is developed against western infantry focuses on fire power and light weight. Maneuverability to negate western air power and the new rifle is a reflection of PLA's confidence in their other branches to fight on par with western infantry with firepower.
You are exactly right!! This video is part of a 50-episode series, which I've outlined here: ua-cam.com/video/o-qNZCAXzFc/v-deo.htmlsi=fDa638yf5oTxAINZ I hope you'll return for the whole thing.
I find your channel when I start to learn more about Chinese tanks and armored vehicles, guess I will learn more. Very informative, keep up the great work, sir!
I'm far from the best person to ask, but off the top of my head, I think you might something that sort of scratches that itch in Lightning Press's OPFOR series, or maybe the Defense Technical Information Center.
The earliest movie I remember seeing the SKS in was the Manchurian Candidate. Thanks for this peek into the Chinese military mind. Too bad that the Indians had the SMLE with "greater" effective range--on paper. It wasn't just the SKS--a lot of the success of the PLA was due to many factors other than the SKS.
When will the video of the Type 63 and Type 81 automatic rifles be released? I can provide information. There are two elders in my family who have a connection with these two rifles.
@@恐龙扛狼-x7t AWESOME! The Type 63 will begin to come up in November, I'd estimate. And I'd be very grateful for your/your relatives' contributions. Perhaps you'd be kind enough to email me at jclowerATcsuchico.edu?
this episode is an encapsulation of the sentiment that we learn more from our failures than our successes. If the tables were turned and it was them being attacked by small fire-teams armed with automatic weapons I think they would have been more likely to see the merits of assault rifles and LMGs.
This story about a self mythology of being expert riflemen who didn't need more firepower is identical to the US Army after WWII, and why they insisted on 7.62 NATO over the lighter rounds developed by the British and Belgians. Even though the Americans fought the same war as their allies, they failed to learn the same lessons.
As USMC infantry veteran and a private military contractor, I have a lot of trigger time on AKs, and I have a lot of time on SKS, specifically the Norinco spike folders, there is a noticeable difference in accuracy and shootability, 7.62x39 AKs are crazy loud and jarring to shoot on full auto, but you can shoot an SKS as fast as you can smush stripper clips into it all day long, no problem, and for me at 6'2" and 190 pounds an SKS feels like a toy, it carries almost as well as an m1 carbine, and the short length of pull is extremely convenient for when you are wearing body armor or load carrying gear. The USMC is the last branch to still teach or practice bayonet fighting with any seriousness so I have a little bit of training with bayonets and hands down the SKS with the spike folder beats any AK pattern with a fixed bayonet hands down and is better than an M16 even
@cascadianrangers728 Thanks so much for chiming in! I'm really happy to have a Marine here. I've got this hypothesis (that we'll get into in a couple weeks) that if you look at "Golden Age PLA" doctrine, and then you look at the Small Wars Manual, etc. and you squint a little, you don't see all that much daylight between them. I'm dying to hear what Marines have to say about it. I hope you'll see fit to stay tuned and keep sharing.
Do you think China drawing the wrong lessons from its war with India was why the PLA suffered heavy casualties when they invaded Vietnam? I heard from Vietnamese that the Chinese posted that they would be in Saigon Ho Chi Minh City by lunchtime. That did not happen.
Yes I always thought china suffered badly for their aggressive act against Vietnam. Then I became not so sure.. Then became convinced Vietnam was the aggressor, with a talk on Lee Kuan yew 's biography.. China invaded vietnam to stop its invasion of cambodia and laos.. If so, there never an intention to capture Saigon. In, fact ASEAN was an union to counter vietnem.
@@biggpicture2930well ngl khmer rouge did massacre small villages and hamlets near the border for a few years before the cpv put the foot down and went over to get their own version of "Nam"
Reminds me of ww2 - Soviet industry provided more automatic fire weapons per unit - both rifles (SVT) and SMGs - PPSh, PPS than Germans since 1942. Makes sense
Hilariously this wrong line of thinking would absolutely haunt the PLA when they clashed with Indian army in 1967 armed with SLRs, Bren L4A4s and the FN MAGs .
Not to mention that war literally saved India's Siliguri corridor ( aka India's chicken neck ) by making sure the protectorate kingdom of Sikkim was ceded to India as a Federal state after a vote referendum ( carried out after violent abdication of Monarch who was kinda being wooed by the Chinese to join with Tibet ) .
Also The Indian OFB Ishapore 1A1 SLR is by default only semi-automatic in nature , given India copied both the British L1A1 SLR and their doctrines as well. Also the number of Sterling SMGs per platoons were increased to two , Ishapore 1A2 Enfields replaced by Ishapore 1A1 & later Swedish 84mm Carl Gustaff Recoilless rocket launcher was added in early 80s .
@@patriotenfield3276 Actually 1 extra Sterling was added in section as the weapon of the radioman. Infantry tactics wise, the biggest shortcoming Indian army figured out in 1962 was that they lacked radios in section strength. So the radioman was turned from a platoon wise role to a section wise role. These guys needed a light weapon and Sterling was the answer. The Carl Gustav would come later than in 67. By 67 PIAT was still the primary AT weapon. It was deployed on Platoon HQ level alongside the 81 mm mortar and more importantly the MMG (Real game changer of the effectiveness of the infantry platoon, it replaced the Maxim and was substantially easier to deploy).
Those early era PLA light infantry tactic was pretty frightening. That ideological driving force permitted a lot of initiative and aggression at the small unit level and facilitated the overall infiltration tactic they employed.
This was awesome! A Gem of a video! Glad I found it. I do have a question. I know much of PLA advisement to the Vietnamese happened before 1954, but did they ever pass along these “lessons” regarding the sks to the North Vietnamese after 1962?
Vietnamese embraced AK-47 and AKM as they had to deal with the superior firepower of America and its allies, the SKS is simply not enough. But they train their unit around marksmanship with the AK, well-aimed 2-3 shots at a time; As bullets are expensive - each one equal to dozens kilograms of rice to arrive at the frontline. Irregular Vietcong units used whatever they got, SKS or even M-16.
IMO the whole incident showed more good about the Indian soldier than the SKS' virtues. Not to diminish any courage of the individual Chinese soldier but that the Indians were able to achieve as much as they did in that border war while outnumbered, surprised, and out gunned speaks a lot to their quality. Hope ya cover the Vietnam border incident too, cause good grief I imagine that was a headache
The founders and leaders of Modern Indian state were not very bright people. They were hungry for Western praise and hated the unwashed Indian masses. Nehru always wanted a Nobel and kept trying his whole life, until China embarrassed India in 1962 and Nehru's worldview shattered. He died a dejected and bitter man. On the other hand, the constitution assembly thought they could fix the sins of past by punishing the future generations. They wanted to build a society where everyone will have equal "results", but not equal rights, irrespective of their intentions and work ethic. This resulted in 80 years of intelligent & hard working people leaving the country on first opportunity. The first parliament didn't even deem it worth their time to do Police reforms, or to change the Indian Penal Code which was made by the British colonizers in 1862! They kept the laws, Police and bureaucracy which were made by colonizers for specific purpose of subjugating Indians. The only smart thing done by these people was land reforms. For which I give them credit.
I doubt Neheru being a pacifist. He had no problem using the army in Hyderabad and Goa. More logical explanation would be that he wanted to prevent being couped out by the military.
Nehru is a non pacifist when coming to Dealing with Western powers. The best example would be none other than Goa & Daman & Diu. On the contrary , he always has been suffering from this racial dillema from his neighbours. Even Hyderabad Operation Polo & Junagarh wasn't Nehru's doing but that of Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel. Also given Nehru was an ardent socialist , he always was living in the myth of all socialist & communist countries are friends / allies of each other , something which shocked his core post 1962 war deeply.
This is the internet in English at its best, you blame China and Chinese for everything to get more likes. The history and truth is always selective. As for this video, only take the opinions about the weapons, this dude has absolutely no idea of the China-Indian border war.
6:00 I'm reminded of the LGOP stories of the US Army: 19- year old American Paratroopers, well-trained, armed-to-the-teeth and lacking serious adult supervision. They collectively remember the Commander’s intent as “March to the sound of the guns and kill anyone who is not dressed like you…”
i love that so many modern armies failed to learn the lesson that fire and maneuver is primarliy abour FIRE it's in the name! Lead always beats flesh. But as you said, self-image and confirmation bias can lead to very different conclusions
In China we dont really learn about this conflict because even at the time of the conflict this was seen as more of a diplomatic setback than a military victory. Even though the military victory ensured that India stopped encroaching on Tibet, it severely disrupted China's overall strategy of establishing friendly relations with third world countries. Mao said he thought long and hard for ten days and ten nights and still couldnt figure out why Nehru would stab China in the back the way he did.
@@YoY664 by invading tibet under a policy named "the forward policy". when the war started indian troops were well into tibet and well past even their own ludicrously unjust, claimed borderline.
56 semi auto(56半） , Chinese production of SKS, was introduce in a moment where fully full auto rifle was not a realistic option. From the history of its service and combat record. Its first record is in 1962, an infantry squad will include two 56 smg with rest of the trooper equip with 56 semi-auto. From the source I have, India trooper wasn’t equipped with FAL at that moment but mostly bolt action rifle, which result in fire power superior of PLA. Later, the PLA was trying to replace the 56 semiauto with type 63 rifle, a so call rifle-smg hybrid gun. But that weapon was poor in behaviour which leads to the return of 56 semi-auto. A thing is, when time goes to 1979, the conflict with Vietnam, PLA already mostly equip 56 smg or 79 / 85 smg(the real smg, 56冲was called smg due to history reason but 79 and 85 shoot pistol rounds). The 56 semi auto still exist, however, as a ranged weapon. When talking about military tradition or the preference of soldiers, a thing need to notice is solider like old stuff. A system they believe and rely on and that pretty much it’s hard to shift to a new platform when you are part of largest military. And that why modern PLA prefer small production with experienced unit but continue building new platform. And one more interesting thing about loving fire power. Today’s PLA is an artillery and missile focus army, where every infantry was expect to be an observer in field network. In 1979, one advantage of PLA is the frontline infantry can received precision fire support by regiment artillery unit. But before that it was gun. In Korean War, volunteers army was suffer from UN’s fire power at day time. However they also find their strength in night raid, where world best light infantry can deliver the fire power. The US describe volunteers army as some sort of zombie but it is actual smart with 3-3 formation allowing constant moving and firing but each move,hide and fire is perform by different 3 man teams in an assault. Which is similar to today’s small unit tactic. With lmg and smg deliver to each 3 man unit, each unit will fire or move accordingly to deliver firepower but also advance to a new area. And with a right timing the casualties will be small as each time only a few unit is exposed to threat. Anyway, the Korean war is well Chinese started to shift from mobility to fire power focus. that’s also the moment where smg become a thing in Chinese military concept. The smg in military experts idea is always about fire power. It might be nice to one shoot an enemy, but you can certainly kill it with 50 rounds of bullet, which is why 05 silenced smg equip with 50rounds and 100 rounds magazine.
I do get the impression that some of it could be a "if you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with" type situation, as developing an industrial base capable of putting out good reliable automatic weapons (and even the tougher, more consistent materials to produce them and have them be safe) seems like it would take a while and to a degree hinge on developing practical experience with production of semi-auto arms and maintenance and evaluation (and design iteration) of a few generations of those in real combat use. And like you can bring in advisors but theres no replacement for having local talent, of the type that has spent their life working in industrial situations and learning the things that are very difficult to share especially with a language barrier. So the stories about how plucky units overcome the odds with their semi-autos could be sort of an internal defense against somebody taking the idea that "everybody needs an automatic, and we need to crank them out now" from the situation, since good semi autos that work are better than unreliable or unsafe autos
Photo with Pong and two others show two AK's and one Mosin rifle. No SKS in the shot. The story of the weapon swap makes more sense with this weaponry.
The story of Chinese vehicle with mounted Heavy Machine Gus still riles up the people of Assam, India. My grandma used to say how one Chinese vehicle with a mounted HMG came down from the then captured Bomdila, Arunachal Pradesh and wrecked havoc in Tezpur, Assam. Nehru was piss scared and provided trains for assamese population to evacuate from their homeland. The Indian Airforce had superior fire power and out of reach for the Chinese but was denied involvement by ill informed Nehru. if it was his daughter, Indira, it would have been a very different story and very different 2024.
I love the videos and the information you are providing on Chinese history and small arms. Can you make a video discussing why china built Mosin nagants longer than nearly all Warsaw pact members? Also I’d be interested in learning about Chinese handguns. They built many Tokarev 7.62 pistols for export to North America, how long did they use these themselves? Were they just officer weapons and symbols of authority? Heavy paperweights? Or were they built to a high standard rivaling Russian made ones? I’m happy I found your channel, I hope you can grow to the point you make a good amount from making these informative videos. I’d love to learn everything from the civil war to modern day! Thanks!
Paradoxically Vietnamese use type 56 against Chinese forces in Sino-Vietnamese War where then manage to not just create large casualties like they're fighting the Americans but in some battles they managed to won and annihilate a whole platoon.
Only in the beginning because the Guangzhou district underestimated them but when the Chinese came back with the Type 81 rifles and other military districts, the Vietnamese lost a lot more men in the end. Not to mention the PLA turned northern Vietnam back into Stone Age and they still haven't recovered til this day.
This story that the Chinese were defeated by the Vietnamese in the Sino-Vietnam war is just plain wrong. It’s typically a myth spread by Americans who want to make THEIR loss in Vietnam seem a little less painful
@@LP18888 Yeh they discover that air support specially C.O.I.N like the American using during the war is badly needed and the North is already bomb into stone age by the B-52 they only manage to recover their industry thanks to captured south equipment and machineries
In 1979 the PLA learnt that the SKS weren't the hotness they thought it was fighting second line troop in the moutains of Vietnam. The Vietnamese People's Army at that point have fought and won or at a minimum out last the US army and the Republic of Vietnam Army at that point, basically the two poster boy of "Victory through superior firepower" doctrine so the VPA knows and appreciate fire power. So basically everyone have an AK, each squad is broken up into 3 fire team of 3 with one person in each fire team having "something" of superior firepower like M79 gernade launcher, B40 or B41 (local copies of the RPG-2 and RPG-7 respectively) or RPD or PKM. Every company had its own fire support platoon held in reserve with the HQ section, ditto to the battalion and regiment level. The VPA knows that you basically have one chance to gain fire superiority in each fire fight and you need to gain it hard and fast. Thus the reasoning for so much fire support weapons pushed down to the lowest level. The other 2 guys in the fire team are just basically ammo bearer kinda like how the German fought in WWII- every infantry man were basically carrying ammo for the GPMG of the squad. This is from the words of my dad who was a 12.7mm heavy machine gunner of the fire support battalion of the 246 regiment 246 division from 1981 til 1983, any inaccarcy is my own for mis-remembering his sotries which he told little of. Gotta give it to the Chinese they are quick learner after the brutal lessions given to them and have changed accordingly since.
sks could be shot more accurately for sure than the ak-47 at longer ranges. ammo supplies werent easy to come by up in those mountains, especially when the pla was relying on animals and human power for logistics. preference for accurate effective fires is the natural thing and the sks would fill that role better than the ak.
@@Type56_Ordnance_Dept i don't suppose they assume much. they were then a poor country in 1962 and could only depend on the soviets for their weapon supplies. the chinese army of 1962 and for many years after that was largely a peasant army with very rudimentary and limited logistical abilities. propaganda aside these farmer soldiers are realistic and practical ppl. many in 1962 were veterans of the chinese civil war in 1949 ,and in korean war. they know how to utilize to the best with what little they had besides being confident , aggressive and motivated. the PLA didn't have much toys until their opening up under Deng.
UA-cam's algorithm did well in this instance. Btw. Have you considered reaching out to Ian McCollum to give you a shoutout in his video? I'm sure his history nerds will become your history nerds as well.
@vaclav_fejt, I'm sorry this slipped through the cracks. Of course I would *die* and go to heaven if Gun Jesus himself gave me a shoutout, but ... is that "done" in the YT world? I don't know the culture and etiquette very well; I imagine he's got a crowd of people trying to get something from him.
I wonder if they've learnt this lesson now, in the 21st century. Considering their focus on a large navy, huge coastal missile stockpile and mountains of artillery, perhaps they have learnt this lesson, better late than never.
To be fair, they weren't wrong. The SKS was indeed superior.... to a bolt action rifle.
Hear, hear
@@BigFujiLittleFilm not just superior. SKS is a realistic option because the bullet production at that time doesn’t support a fully automatic strategy.
China in Korean war do equip lots of SMG (PPsh) and LMG in combat unit. The so called, 3-3 formation is a system of different 3 man team equip with auto weapons that each charge and fire support executed by different 3 man team at different timing. So the fire is constantly and kinda reason why us think China rely on number. It’s not just number, but split into very small units.
Anyway, the major problem of volunteers army is logistics. Night raid spend lots of bullet while volunteers army is a light infantry focus force where no air support exist. They do did well on against invaders but the logistics problem result in casualties and failure to push further forward than 38line.
When goes to conflict with India, the weapon and logistics has been improve but the economic is still the first priority, army received upgrade but the resource is restricted. The semi auto rifle combine with automatic rifle (56 smg) become a major form of infantry squad. And you can said its kinda like the legacy of doctrine from Korean War. Where both fire and logistic matter.
The .303 SMLE is a good weapon for mountain combat environment where range of engagements can be at several hundred meters.
@@sixgunsymphony7408 A semi-automatic rifle in the calibre of an SKS is just as capable at those ranges.
@BigFujiLittleFilm Not so, the 7.62x39mm cartridge is intermediate power, the .303 British is full power rifle cartridge.
What an incredibly niche and excellent channel.
Thanks so much for your encouragement.
@@Type56_Ordnance_Dept Your channel pairs well with my buddy’s channel, Triangle 26. Hopefully you’ve come across it already.
“火力不足恐惧症”is the current and ongoing meme for the PLA, coined by the Chinese internet, it mean "The fear of not enough firepower syndrome". The PLA learned its lesson from observing the Gulf War.
This means the chinese fears having little firepower? Or it's a critic of US obsession with gamechanger weapons?
@@99jean88it means the Chinese fears having little firepower because the gulf war was the first widely reported foreign conflict in China and it shows how advanced the US military are and how overwhelming firepower are important in modern warfare to China.
@@99jean88It means an obsession with having the most firepower in everything in an fight
@@99jean88 Or the Japanese's "Kessen Heiki" and the German's "Wunderwaffe"
To be accurate, the “lack of firepower” mentality was started from the Korean War, when the PLA was fighting the US/UN army with severe lack of…everything.
It funny considering the Chinese developed a full auto version of the sks. Also all the norinco versions that take ak mags, its like they constantly try to turn it into the ak
Oh my friend, we are going to have SO MUCH FUN, you and I, when we get to the Type 63! Stay tuned!
I think it's just cuz they had so many SKS's anyway, so they were hoping to just make minor changes and get an AK rifle.
@@Type56_Ordnance_Dept !!!
The type 63 was a cross between an sks and AK. If you saw the rifle taken apart you’d see.
I’d love to find a type 63 front sight block to complete a project I’ve been working on for a decade but those kind of parts don’t come around much unfortunately.
awesome and kool vid.
This channel is so niche, yet answers a lot of questions that were floating around in my head for years.
Its for a collage course, universities often upload their stuff on youtube, often unprivated.
Also its quite full of propaganda, funny thing is, when usa was friendly to china they wrote “indias china war” that actually proves that it was india that started it, but they back track since they want into now to counter china 😅
Outstanding video series on the PLA's small arms philosophy.
Can't wait to see how far this series goes, hopefully to the Type 63 and Type 81
And the Type 81's successor, the Type 03 assault rifle
As a military historian, this channel is a certified gem, good narration and a solid analysis
You're kind, and I hope to keep earning your respect. Please come back often.
The Indian war was not the only time PLA had firepower superiority, in the war with VietNam in the late 1970s-1980s, they already had the "GFSS"(Get Fire Superiority Syndrome) and rained upon the Viet army with artillery whenever they had even minimum resistance. In fact in this war the PLA consumed a majority of their artillery reserves, and in the later stage of this war, the war was used as "drill" for PLA to get their soldiers "dirty", which somehow cleared the path (from military conservative factions) for Deng Xiaoping to perform the economic reform that shaped China's dramatic transformation.
this kinda explains the modern PLA's love of the 120mm recoilless rifle (PF-98) tbh
And also their fixation on a combination of light, automatic grenade launchers and semi-auto "sniper" grenade launchers, in preference to SAW's and GPMG's. China, once again, seems to be drawing the wrong lessons, and they think that a light automatic grenade launcher like the QLZ-87 or a "precision" semi-auto grenade launcher like the QLU-11 can fill the same role of suppressing fire and saturation fire as a machine gun. The problem is the low volume of fire, vastly reduced ammo capacity, etc. and the fact their 35mm grenades aren't nearly as lethal as NATO's 40mm grenades.
The PF-98 120mm rocket launcher, as you noted, seems to have taken the place of older recoilless rifles and reduced the number of ATGM's they use. It's cheap, it's unguided, but it provides mobile firepower that can act as a light, direct-fire artillery piece for infantry support or in lieu of a proper anti-tank weapon, so the Chinese are in love with it.
There's an old saying about small arms, "The French copy no one, and no one copies the French." There should be a similar saying about Chinese preferences for weapons.
@@Swindle1984 Agreed!
Also explains why they have the lightest and most portable 50 cal machinegun ever made.
The QJZ-171 is literally a 12.7mm PKM, much lighter and more mobile than any other heavy machinegun of its class.
It weighs 18.5 kg compared to the American M2 which weighs 28kg and it has a 6kg tripod comped to the 15kg M205 tripod of the M2. Also to keep in mind the M205 is the light tripod of the M2, the standard one weighs 22kg, more than the QJZ-171 itself.
That means that 3 PLA soldiers can sprint at nearly full speed while carrying the machinegun, the tripod and a few hundred rounds of ammo, Or they can climb stiff mountain cliffs in that configuration.
It has proven its effectiveness in Africa where militias made Motorcycle and ATV tehnicals with the QJZ. Again, that's a 12.7mm machinegun attached to a motorcycle. THAT'S how light and mobile it is.
@@daniels0376 The problem with that is that while the gun is portable, it also bounces around a lot more and isn't as stable, making accuracy a matter of luck. It also doesn't last as long before parts break.
@@Swindle1984wrong, they havent replaced their gpmg or mmg at all wtf are you talking about, this channel seems to be clock full of misinformation
This is amazing stuff, hands down the best explanation on the topic I've seen. Excellent stuff!
day=made. Thanks for stopping by, and please don't be a stranger.
@@Type56_Ordnance_Dept would you eventually do a vid of how the type 56 became the most common AK type in world, seeing action in Ukraine 🇺🇦 as part of the supplies Americans got after intercepting shipments destined for Yemen as part of operation prosperity guardian
I dont remember last time Ive seen a video this good from a channel this small. Hope to see many more.
I believe the parable about choosing an SKS over an AK for a long shot; the SKS trigger isn't bad and the sites are basically the same but with like double the length between them, the longer sight radius alone makes the SKS much easier to shoot
It is interesting that the chinese doctrin seems to be an allgamation of american and german ideas about infanty tactics. "Every man a marksman" combined with "Stoss- und Sturmtruppen".
It's funny, I keep waiting to find sources where the tacticians/trainers/staff officers betray some evidence that they're studying American doctrine. But so far, I'm coming up empty.
@@Type56_Ordnance_Deptprecisely, American infantry doctrine in the modern day comes from American marine observers with the KMT learning Chinese small unit tactics and the concept of the fireteam.
@@Type56_Ordnance_Dept Evens Carlson, who went on to command the 2nd Marine Raiders Battalion in WW2, spent 1937-1939 with the 8th Route Army as a military observer. Having spent that long with them, and admiring them as much as he did, I can't help but think he probably taught them a thing or two about Marine tactics while he was there.
@@goforbroke4428the kmt rejected american doctrine, and chaing butted heads with many us officers that lead to the estrangement which caused the usa to abandon the kmt
The kmt adopted prussian or german tactics, in fact their best german trained troops held up a huge amount of japanese in shiang hai but it was eventually destroyed
This is a great series. The subject of the PLA is almost completely unknown on UA-cam; you could grow a main channel on the subject and dominate.
Well done! Thank you!
This is an incredibly fascinating and enjoyable channel. I love the history behind the PRC and the USSR, as a stamp collector of these two regions there's lots of great history contained in the stamps to research! However with military history like this, it is something that you don't see well documented on UA-cam. There's lots of books about these subjects however condensing it into a video series allows for a wider range of people to maybe become interested. It's even interesting knowing that India and China still have border disputes, where they've reached a agreement not to use firearms but to go back to using handheld weapons like sticks and swords.
My new favorite UA-cam series! Please make moreeeeeeeee!!!!!
Dear lord you weren't kidding about the Indian Army being equipped for 1944 in 1962. I love learning about this stuff. I was willingly a self taught WWII history nerd in the 70s and 80s. When I was at University, the emphasis was heavy on a very recently ended Cold War. I knew about organization and equipment used by the USSR because that was my expected adversary. My grandpa was a Hump pilot in WWII but the PLA post Korea is something of a mystery to me - much appreciate these lessons. Subscribed. I almost regret selling my Norinco SKS!
Didn't realize this was such a new channel, you got my sub. Usually chinese history and especially military history is glazed over as "Soviet copy, bad quality". Very interested in the future of this channel
I love how specific this channel is and also love this video
Can't wait to watch more of your videos! Subscribed!🫡
Honored, thank you.
Will be following this channel, this level of detail just for one military and its peculiarities in weapon selection is the kind of stuff that tickles my tism.
what an excellent video, thoroughly enjoyed it , liked and subbed. I happen to be an SKS owner (here in Canada), been plinking with it for a while, hope to go deer hunting with it some day once I become really good with it.
As a history and military buff who grew up in China, this channel is GOLD 🥇
what is your opinions on India , i will tolerate any thing good or bad
@@AC130rus I used to look down on the Indian military due to their less-than-stellar performance in 1962 (covered by this vid), but now I know there were objective factors at play, mainly gap in firepower and mobility.
I heard good words about the modern Indian infantry, but Indian domestic weapons industry seems to have a long way to go. Buying everything abroad is not a good long-term strategy.
I am against oppression against the Tibetans and I know many Tibetan exiles serve along the Sino-Indian border. I have nothing against them. However, regardless of the type of government in Beijing, I don't think we Chinese will be willing to give up the strategic Tibetan plateau.
A Cold War Russian conscript could have made that shot with his AKM. Put in the right hands, the AK series of rifles can be accurate as need be.
None hole reviews tired marksmen stuff with tons of AKs and some SKS, and the SKS kinda sucks.
@@Seth9809 that is a very small sample size, if his results are to be used to represent the whole - russia-made civilian ak are less accurate than average(iirc the 5.45 ones were around 5moa instead of 3-4moa).
Very good, but you need to make a playlist with these stories it's quite manual to watch these videos. Looking forward to enjoying more of your videos.
That's a wonderful idea. Thank you, coming up.
To add to your point, Chinese mountain scouts / infiltrators were noted fierce fighters during the decade long Sino - Vietnamese border war, especially during the 1984 battle of Vị Xuyên, after the reforms took place and the adoptions of the Type 81 assault rifle. Many of them spoke fluent Vietnamese and were familiar with the terrain, from their years of working with their friend-turned-enemy.
Very western point of view on military weaponry. The SKS was adopted due to its logistics, geopolitics, doctrine, and battlefield performance. The Chinese knew they wanted an automatic rifle and had worked to bridge the gap. However, against western powers, AK-47 or SKS didn't matter as they knew that they have to infiltrate and use light infantry maneuver to get in close to negate naval and air superiority. What you forget that the USSR became their largest enemy even against India. India was pro-soviet and the war was fought when the USSR wanted China's support on the cuban missile crisis. The SKS proved accuracy and range that was important in the large empty areas of the northern borders where the land was flat, China's defensive posture dedicated need that range. At that range, machine gun pretty much makes up for suppression. Then lastly, doctrine, the people's war is the main core doctrine of the PLA. Through a long war, China's ammunition disadvantage and the fact that the main core of China is infantry and militias, magazine and ammunition limit constraints are what planners have to decide. Arming every peasant with an SKS is what China did, however the factory manufacturing of magazines and springs are not something they could do. During guerilla warfare, production of ammunition can be done in the country side or they can loot it off Soviets but won't be enough. Magazines would make the production line worst and distribution won't be good enough. The PLA does in fact know it but squad level weapons aren't the priority. AK47s doesn't fit their doctrine which is why they made the Type 81, it bridges the gap of range/accuracy that they wanted. However, by the time it came out it only served in Vietnam as the USSR collapse in 1991 and the US and China were geo-political allies by 1970s. Which is why the Type 95 which is developed against western infantry focuses on fire power and light weight. Maneuverability to negate western air power and the new rifle is a reflection of PLA's confidence in their other branches to fight on par with western infantry with firepower.
You are exactly right!! This video is part of a 50-episode series, which I've outlined here: ua-cam.com/video/o-qNZCAXzFc/v-deo.htmlsi=fDa638yf5oTxAINZ
I hope you'll return for the whole thing.
@@Type56_Ordnance_Dept damn a whole hbo series
Keep up the great series!!
I find your channel when I start to learn more about Chinese tanks and armored vehicles, guess I will learn more. Very informative, keep up the great work, sir!
India had by then adopted the ‘Commonwealth’ version of the FN FAL, though likely not widely issued by 1962.
I thank the algorithm for bringing me here
So do I. :)
You my friend are a great story teller!
What are some good books on modern PLAGF Doctrine? It is difficult to find stuff in English.
I'm far from the best person to ask, but off the top of my head, I think you might something that sort of scratches that itch in Lightning Press's OPFOR series, or maybe the Defense Technical Information Center.
The earliest movie I remember seeing the SKS in was the Manchurian Candidate. Thanks for this peek into the Chinese military mind. Too bad that the Indians had the SMLE with "greater" effective range--on paper. It wasn't just the SKS--a lot of the success of the PLA was due to many factors other than the SKS.
Just found your channel and it is absolutely fantastic keep up the good work you've earned a subscriber and I'm going to share your work
Perhaps you cover the sino-vietnam war 1970-1980 not much i can find about it online.
Great video, looking forward to the next one👍
Dude you fucking rock! Insane this type of content is 1 free and 2 from a channel with less than a thousand subscribers.
When will the video of the Type 63 and Type 81 automatic rifles be released? I can provide information. There are two elders in my family who have a connection with these two rifles.
@@恐龙扛狼-x7t AWESOME! The Type 63 will begin to come up in November, I'd estimate. And I'd be very grateful for your/your relatives' contributions. Perhaps you'd be kind enough to email me at jclowerATcsuchico.edu?
@@Type56_Ordnance_Dept We are collecting data, but it will take some time.
great content subscribed this channel will be over 100k by the end of 2025
very informative, this channel will go big
Thanks for your encouragement. I hope to keep earning it.
In 50-60s’, PLA infantrymen were like Stonewall Jackson’s foot cavalry: poorly equipped but can out-march and out-maneuver anyone.
Not poorly equipped compared to that crowd of rabble that was the Indian Army in 62.
@@John-d8p compared with US Army and Marines in North Korea, yes they were lack of equipment
@@guangzhouguide Did you even read what I said??
@@John-d8p yea, in 62 PLA had better guns than indians, but in 52 it was definetly not welled equipped
@@guangzhouguide Yeah, but the video IS about 62. isn't it??
this episode is an encapsulation of the sentiment that we learn more from our failures than our successes. If the tables were turned and it was them being attacked by small fire-teams armed with automatic weapons I think they would have been more likely to see the merits of assault rifles and LMGs.
Well done videos, thank you for sharing!
This story about a self mythology of being expert riflemen who didn't need more firepower is identical to the US Army after WWII, and why they insisted on 7.62 NATO over the lighter rounds developed by the British and Belgians. Even though the Americans fought the same war as their allies, they failed to learn the same lessons.
but hey at least it worked, the 7.62 is now the standard NATO rounds, a balanced combination of firepower and accuracy.
listen to me, Americans love bigger and heavier guns. they will never give up their beloved 7.62, like ever.
As USMC infantry veteran and a private military contractor, I have a lot of trigger time on AKs, and I have a lot of time on SKS, specifically the Norinco spike folders, there is a noticeable difference in accuracy and shootability, 7.62x39 AKs are crazy loud and jarring to shoot on full auto, but you can shoot an SKS as fast as you can smush stripper clips into it all day long, no problem, and for me at 6'2" and 190 pounds an SKS feels like a toy, it carries almost as well as an m1 carbine, and the short length of pull is extremely convenient for when you are wearing body armor or load carrying gear.
The USMC is the last branch to still teach or practice bayonet fighting with any seriousness so I have a little bit of training with bayonets and hands down the SKS with the spike folder beats any AK pattern with a fixed bayonet hands down and is better than an M16 even
@cascadianrangers728 Thanks so much for chiming in! I'm really happy to have a Marine here. I've got this hypothesis (that we'll get into in a couple weeks) that if you look at "Golden Age PLA" doctrine, and then you look at the Small Wars Manual, etc. and you squint a little, you don't see all that much daylight between them. I'm dying to hear what Marines have to say about it. I hope you'll see fit to stay tuned and keep sharing.
Do you think China drawing the wrong lessons from its war with India was why the PLA suffered heavy casualties when they invaded Vietnam? I heard from Vietnamese that the Chinese posted that they would be in Saigon Ho Chi Minh City by lunchtime. That did not happen.
As we'll see, a LOT of things went wrong, but this was one case where small arms were a factor. I hope you'll stay tuned!
Yes I always thought china suffered badly for their aggressive act against Vietnam. Then I became not so sure.. Then became convinced Vietnam was the aggressor, with a talk on Lee Kuan yew 's biography.. China invaded vietnam to stop its invasion of cambodia and laos.. If so, there never an intention to capture Saigon. In, fact ASEAN was an union to counter vietnem.
@@biggpicture2930well ngl khmer rouge did massacre small villages and hamlets near the border for a few years before the cpv put the foot down and went over to get their own version of "Nam"
Reminds me of ww2 - Soviet industry provided more automatic fire weapons per unit - both rifles (SVT) and SMGs - PPSh, PPS than Germans since 1942. Makes sense
im loving this channel.
Hilariously this wrong line of thinking would absolutely haunt the PLA when they clashed with Indian army in 1967 armed with SLRs, Bren L4A4s and the FN MAGs .
Frequently the best lessons are learned the hard way.
Not to mention that war literally saved India's Siliguri corridor ( aka India's chicken neck ) by making sure the protectorate kingdom of Sikkim was ceded to India as a Federal state after a vote referendum ( carried out after violent abdication of Monarch who was kinda being wooed by the Chinese to join with Tibet ) .
Also The Indian OFB Ishapore 1A1 SLR is by default only semi-automatic in nature , given India copied both the British L1A1 SLR and their doctrines as well. Also the number of Sterling SMGs per platoons were increased to two , Ishapore 1A2 Enfields replaced by Ishapore 1A1 & later Swedish 84mm Carl Gustaff Recoilless rocket launcher was added in early 80s .
@@patriotenfield3276 Actually 1 extra Sterling was added in section as the weapon of the radioman. Infantry tactics wise, the biggest shortcoming Indian army figured out in 1962 was that they lacked radios in section strength. So the radioman was turned from a platoon wise role to a section wise role. These guys needed a light weapon and Sterling was the answer. The Carl Gustav would come later than in 67. By 67 PIAT was still the primary AT weapon. It was deployed on Platoon HQ level alongside the 81 mm mortar and more importantly the MMG (Real game changer of the effectiveness of the infantry platoon, it replaced the Maxim and was substantially easier to deploy).
India was utterly curbstomped by a bunch of starving chinese in the midst of a famine.
Those early era PLA light infantry tactic was pretty frightening. That ideological driving force permitted a lot of initiative and aggression at the small unit level and facilitated the overall infiltration tactic they employed.
This Pang Guo Xing character sounds like a real lean, solid dog...
Please do the Sino-Soviet & Sino-Vietnamese conflicts and what impact these had on the usage of the Type 56 SKS in the PLA!
Not a lot of modern East Asian military history makes it into history buff circles in the West. Good to see channels like this. Super interesting!
Incredible series!
This was awesome! A Gem of a video! Glad I found it. I do have a question. I know much of PLA advisement to the Vietnamese happened before 1954, but did they ever pass along these “lessons” regarding the sks to the North Vietnamese after 1962?
Vietnamese embraced AK-47 and AKM as they had to deal with the superior firepower of America and its allies, the SKS is simply not enough. But they train their unit around marksmanship with the AK, well-aimed 2-3 shots at a time; As bullets are expensive - each one equal to dozens kilograms of rice to arrive at the frontline.
Irregular Vietcong units used whatever they got, SKS or even M-16.
I love your videos so much!
Such a small channel yet so freaking good. You, Sir, are a gem! 🫡
Please do an episode on the Type 81! Everyone in Canada would watch it!
i do appreciate the fact that canadians retains SKS as a standard service rifle. its a good gun.
Fastest I’ve subscribed to something in my life.
This is like getting a thumbs-up from Jesus. :)
fascinating, listening in from Hong Kong!
I’m so glad I got recommended this.
Do you use Instagram?
IMO the whole incident showed more good about the Indian soldier than the SKS' virtues. Not to diminish any courage of the individual Chinese soldier but that the Indians were able to achieve as much as they did in that border war while outnumbered, surprised, and out gunned speaks a lot to their quality.
Hope ya cover the Vietnam border incident too, cause good grief I imagine that was a headache
Thanks for doing this🎉
Never shot AK but SKS was so accurate back in my days when I served the youth military camp
The founders and leaders of Modern Indian state were not very bright people. They were hungry for Western praise and hated the unwashed Indian masses. Nehru always wanted a Nobel and kept trying his whole life, until China embarrassed India in 1962 and Nehru's worldview shattered. He died a dejected and bitter man.
On the other hand, the constitution assembly thought they could fix the sins of past by punishing the future generations. They wanted to build a society where everyone will have equal "results", but not equal rights, irrespective of their intentions and work ethic. This resulted in 80 years of intelligent & hard working people leaving the country on first opportunity.
The first parliament didn't even deem it worth their time to do Police reforms, or to change the Indian Penal Code which was made by the British colonizers in 1862! They kept the laws, Police and bureaucracy which were made by colonizers for specific purpose of subjugating Indians.
The only smart thing done by these people was land reforms. For which I give them credit.
Herein lies the difference between revolution and reform...
I doubt Neheru being a pacifist. He had no problem using the army in Hyderabad and Goa. More logical explanation would be that he wanted to prevent being couped out by the military.
Nehru is a non pacifist when coming to Dealing with Western powers. The best example would be none other than Goa & Daman & Diu.
On the contrary , he always has been suffering from this racial dillema from his neighbours. Even Hyderabad Operation Polo & Junagarh wasn't Nehru's doing but that of Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel. Also given Nehru was an ardent socialist , he always was living in the myth of all socialist & communist countries are friends / allies of each other , something which shocked his core post 1962 war deeply.
That was Sardar Patel not Nehru, read your history right.
This is the internet in English at its best, you blame China and Chinese for everything to get more likes. The history and truth is always selective.
As for this video, only take the opinions about the weapons, this dude has absolutely no idea of the China-Indian border war.
@@CodeMeat CCP bot detected/ opinion rejected.
@@John-d8p You def sound like a bot, guess that 1.6b can't even get you an update, no?
6:00 I'm reminded of the LGOP stories of the US Army:
19- year old American Paratroopers, well-trained, armed-to-the-teeth and lacking serious adult supervision. They collectively remember the Commander’s intent as “March to the sound of the guns and kill anyone who is not dressed like you…”
I can't believe a foreigner got interested in this as well. Good work!
The USA went through the exact same thing with the M1 Garand/M14, even down to the "marksman" mythos.
i love that so many modern armies failed to learn the lesson that fire and maneuver is primarliy abour FIRE it's in the name! Lead always beats flesh. But as you said, self-image and confirmation bias can lead to very different conclusions
In China we dont really learn about this conflict because even at the time of the conflict this was seen as more of a diplomatic setback than a military victory. Even though the military victory ensured that India stopped encroaching on Tibet, it severely disrupted China's overall strategy of establishing friendly relations with third world countries. Mao said he thought long and hard for ten days and ten nights and still couldnt figure out why Nehru would stab China in the back the way he did.
"still couldnt figure out why Nehru would stab China in the back the way he did." by doing what exactly ? letting in Dalai Lama ?
@@YoY664 by invading tibet under a policy named "the forward policy". when the war started indian troops were well into tibet and well past even their own ludicrously unjust, claimed borderline.
56 semi auto(56半） , Chinese production of SKS, was introduce in a moment where fully full auto rifle was not a realistic option.
From the history of its service and combat record. Its first record is in 1962, an infantry squad will include two 56 smg with rest of the trooper equip with 56 semi-auto. From the source I have, India trooper wasn’t equipped with FAL at that moment but mostly bolt action rifle, which result in fire power superior of PLA.
Later, the PLA was trying to replace the 56 semiauto with type 63 rifle, a so call rifle-smg hybrid gun. But that weapon was poor in behaviour which leads to the return of 56 semi-auto.
A thing is, when time goes to 1979, the conflict with Vietnam, PLA already mostly equip 56 smg or 79 / 85 smg(the real smg, 56冲was called smg due to history reason but 79 and 85 shoot pistol rounds). The 56 semi auto still exist, however, as a ranged weapon.
When talking about military tradition or the preference of soldiers, a thing need to notice is solider like old stuff. A system they believe and rely on and that pretty much it’s hard to shift to a new platform when you are part of largest military. And that why modern PLA prefer small production with experienced unit but continue building new platform.
And one more interesting thing about loving fire power.
Today’s PLA is an artillery and missile focus army, where every infantry was expect to be an observer in field network.
In 1979, one advantage of PLA is the frontline infantry can received precision fire support by regiment artillery unit. But before that it was gun.
In Korean War, volunteers army was suffer from UN’s fire power at day time. However they also find their strength in night raid, where world best light infantry can deliver the fire power. The US describe volunteers army as some sort of zombie but it is actual smart with 3-3 formation allowing constant moving and firing but each move,hide and fire is perform by different 3 man teams in an assault. Which is similar to today’s small unit tactic.
With lmg and smg deliver to each 3 man unit, each unit will fire or move accordingly to deliver firepower but also advance to a new area. And with a right timing the casualties will be small as each time only a few unit is exposed to threat.
Anyway, the Korean war is well Chinese started to shift from mobility to fire power focus. that’s also the moment where smg become a thing in Chinese military concept.
The smg in military experts idea is always about fire power. It might be nice to one shoot an enemy, but you can certainly kill it with 50 rounds of bullet, which is why 05 silenced smg equip with 50rounds and 100 rounds magazine.
I do get the impression that some of it could be a "if you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with" type situation, as developing an industrial base capable of putting out good reliable automatic weapons (and even the tougher, more consistent materials to produce them and have them be safe) seems like it would take a while and to a degree hinge on developing practical experience with production of semi-auto arms and maintenance and evaluation (and design iteration) of a few generations of those in real combat use. And like you can bring in advisors but theres no replacement for having local talent, of the type that has spent their life working in industrial situations and learning the things that are very difficult to share especially with a language barrier. So the stories about how plucky units overcome the odds with their semi-autos could be sort of an internal defense against somebody taking the idea that "everybody needs an automatic, and we need to crank them out now" from the situation, since good semi autos that work are better than unreliable or unsafe autos
It's almost like you've been reading my notes for Unit 3! I hope you keep coming back.
The SKS is so obsolete that I have two of them.
Photo with Pong and two others show two AK's and one Mosin rifle. No SKS in the shot. The story of the weapon swap makes more sense with this weaponry.
Edifying. Thanks for posting.
The story of Chinese vehicle with mounted Heavy Machine Gus still riles up the people of Assam, India. My grandma used to say how one Chinese vehicle with a mounted HMG came down from the then captured Bomdila, Arunachal Pradesh and wrecked havoc in Tezpur, Assam. Nehru was piss scared and provided trains for assamese population to evacuate from their homeland. The Indian Airforce had superior fire power and out of reach for the Chinese but was denied involvement by ill informed Nehru. if it was his daughter, Indira, it would have been a very different story and very different 2024.
The last Lee-Enfields were being cranked out at Ishapore even after 1962. Outdated weapons, indeed. Thank you for such an in-depth review.
What a treat from algo! As Russian commie, this is interesting af)) Btw, ushanka looks good on you)
Quickly becoming a new favorite channel for me
Thanks, that makes my day. I hope I keep earning repeat visits.
Funny how pretty much every army loves fire power even if they don't think they do.
Dude actually named his channel all that?😂 This channels great!
bro ngl your mandarin is so on point
Are you the guy who wrote the blog post on the peoples shoe? I collect PLA militaria and really enjoyed it.
YEAH! I'm so happy you liked it! (Heck, I'm thrilled anyone's *read* it. :)
@Type56_Ordnance_Dept I wouldn't mind hearing more about that topic, I've been collecting variations of the people's shoe.
@@themischeifguide your wish = my command
@@Type56_Ordnance_Dept you're kidding me? I really appreciate it.
I love the videos and the information you are providing on Chinese history and small arms. Can you make a video discussing why china built Mosin nagants longer than nearly all Warsaw pact members? Also I’d be interested in learning about Chinese handguns. They built many Tokarev 7.62 pistols for export to North America, how long did they use these themselves? Were they just officer weapons and symbols of authority? Heavy paperweights? Or were they built to a high standard rivaling Russian made ones?
I’m happy I found your channel, I hope you can grow to the point you make a good amount from making these informative videos. I’d love to learn everything from the civil war to modern day! Thanks!
Yes, absolutely! The Type 50 video is coming soon. After that, if it leaves you with questions, please LMK and I'll try taking a second pass.
Your channel exploded fast.
Apparently there are just a lot of cool people out there :)
Obsolescence? Bubba has turned the SKS into a high speed, low drag tactical package.
Paradoxically Vietnamese use type 56 against Chinese forces in Sino-Vietnamese War where then manage to not just create large casualties like they're fighting the Americans but in some battles they managed to won and annihilate a whole platoon.
Only in the beginning because the Guangzhou district underestimated them but when the Chinese came back with the Type 81 rifles and other military districts, the Vietnamese lost a lot more men in the end. Not to mention the PLA turned northern Vietnam back into Stone Age and they still haven't recovered til this day.
This story that the Chinese were defeated by the Vietnamese in the Sino-Vietnam war is just plain wrong. It’s typically a myth spread by Americans who want to make THEIR loss in Vietnam seem a little less painful
@@LP18888 Yeh they discover that air support specially C.O.I.N like the American using during the war is badly needed and the North is already bomb into stone age by the B-52 they only manage to recover their industry thanks to captured south equipment and machineries
@@LP18888 Everyone knows China lost that war, except Chinese propagandists.
Also vietnam started that war, for invading both laos and cambodia, then allowing soviet bases to be stationed there,
I erroneously believed that the PLA didn’t officially switch to the AK platform until 1980 when mil spec production of the T56 finally ceased.
Thank you for chiming in!
The photo of the three guys, the one on the far left has a Mosin Nagant not an SKS.
they walked on the Indian Army in that War!!! greetings from Mexico
It's really interesting to see that you got a chinese version Spengler in your background.
In 1979 the PLA learnt that the SKS weren't the hotness they thought it was fighting second line troop in the moutains of Vietnam. The Vietnamese People's Army at that point have fought and won or at a minimum out last the US army and the Republic of Vietnam Army at that point, basically the two poster boy of "Victory through superior firepower" doctrine so the VPA knows and appreciate fire power. So basically everyone have an AK, each squad is broken up into 3 fire team of 3 with one person in each fire team having "something" of superior firepower like M79 gernade launcher, B40 or B41 (local copies of the RPG-2 and RPG-7 respectively) or RPD or PKM. Every company had its own fire support platoon held in reserve with the HQ section, ditto to the battalion and regiment level. The VPA knows that you basically have one chance to gain fire superiority in each fire fight and you need to gain it hard and fast. Thus the reasoning for so much fire support weapons pushed down to the lowest level. The other 2 guys in the fire team are just basically ammo bearer kinda like how the German fought in WWII- every infantry man were basically carrying ammo for the GPMG of the squad.
This is from the words of my dad who was a 12.7mm heavy machine gunner of the fire support battalion of the 246 regiment 246 division from 1981 til 1983, any inaccarcy is my own for mis-remembering his sotries which he told little of. Gotta give it to the Chinese they are quick learner after the brutal lessions given to them and have changed accordingly since.
sks could be shot more accurately for sure than the ak-47 at longer ranges. ammo supplies werent easy to come by up in those mountains, especially when the pla was relying on animals and human power for logistics. preference for accurate effective fires is the natural thing and the sks would fill that role better than the ak.
I agree. IMHO, the PLA made a very sound choice *given their assumptions* about how they'd be fighting.
@@Type56_Ordnance_Dept i don't suppose they assume much. they were then a poor country in 1962 and could only depend on the soviets for their weapon supplies. the chinese army of 1962 and for many years after that was largely a peasant army with very rudimentary and limited logistical abilities. propaganda aside these farmer soldiers are realistic and practical ppl. many in 1962 were veterans of the chinese civil war in 1949 ,and in korean war. they know how to utilize to the best with what little they had besides being confident , aggressive and motivated. the PLA didn't have much toys until their opening up under Deng.
As chinese i never thought of seeing a video like this😂. very good video.
Welcome @Seongbin-0! Thanks for your kind words, and it's great to have you here!
Im so mad that I didn't buy a Chinese SKS when they were $300. I have 3 other SKSs and didnt know any of the history behind the Type 56
@@farklestaxbaum4945 Definitely, I remember when Yugoslavian ones were $100 in the cosmoline. With surplus you have to get while the getting is good.
UA-cam's algorithm did well in this instance.
Btw. Have you considered reaching out to Ian McCollum to give you a shoutout in his video? I'm sure his history nerds will become your history nerds as well.
@vaclav_fejt, I'm sorry this slipped through the cracks. Of course I would *die* and go to heaven if Gun Jesus himself gave me a shoutout, but ... is that "done" in the YT world? I don't know the culture and etiquette very well; I imagine he's got a crowd of people trying to get something from him.
I wonder if they've learnt this lesson now, in the 21st century.
Considering their focus on a large navy, huge coastal missile stockpile and mountains of artillery, perhaps they have learnt this lesson, better late than never.
The Chad SKS vs the virgin AKM
all that commie crap vs the Giga chad FN-FAL