Thanks Eric for the update. Loved how you explained the upcoming processes. An model of Pickens Kane ,Cherry St., or even Kingsbury would be cool. Thanks for sharing!
Let me also add one that I fight with in the hobby at times from FDR: "We have nothing to fear but fear itself," Excited to grow with you on your journey. Scott
Thank you for keeping us in the loop, Eric. I loved all the Zen at the opening. It lends the appropriate amount of gravity to the task ahead of you. Wiring is something I have been remiss in addressing on my layout, and unfortunately, I will be on my back if I tackle it. (Not ideal) I too partake of Charlie’s railroad quite often. Although it is OO, his methodology is second to none, albeit a bit dry at times. I’ve learned a great deal from him. I’m really torn between keeping things as they are here and improving them, or making drastic layout changes. The ducking under is getting old. Look forward to your next installment. (Love the Stranger Things reference, btw) Take care, Brooklyn
Totally agree Brooklyn - redoing wiring is pretty tough without being able to put the layout in a position that makes it easy to work with. I'd definitely not recommend having to go back and redo stuff to organize it, with a number of years and new foresight I think about wiring much differently now. The test layout will certainly reflect some of that new thinking. Glad you got the reference - every so often I find a viewer gets the occasional obscure cultural or musical references in the content ;). A fun little easter egg I suppose!
Interesting. Your going to do the opposite of what I am doing. My layout is on a tabel in the living/dining room. So my goal is to have it as such that only one or maybe two wires com out of it... On the other hand, yes I try to organize my inside wires. I don't mind some extra feed of wire as long as its organized, fixed in place and running in straight lines...
@@folkertvanwijk5168 There will probably end up being 6-8 or so wires running to the layout in a single bundle, which should be very helpful. Spot on about organizing. That really is important here and a big part of the task ahead!
After redoing my yard, I had to rework the bus line for the new feeders. I took the time to organize all the wiring under the layout including some of the feeders that was never attached to the bus wire. I like your approach to it, just because it's not broken, there's always room for improvement.
Hey, Eric. As usual, this video contains a lot of food for thought. Everyone should build the layout they find satisfactory. What works for you might not work for the next person and vice versa. I will admit to being a cheerleader for "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" and "Pick your battles". Your curiosity as a scientist is certainly going to play into the way you approach the hobby just as my own background as a machinist and process engineer lends a certain practicality to my approach. The way I see it, I've got enough things going on that don't work well so I shouldn't be messing with anything that does. You have done many things I have found interesting, particularly your approach to structure lighting, so I will be following with great interest. I'm sure there will be a lot of useful and interesting ideas coming from the renovation, and as usual, I will consider all ideas at length before I pick and choose. (Cost/benefit analysis?) Best wishes for great results.
Hi Thomas, always great to hear from you! The practical approach you advocate for makes a lot of sense to help triaging and troubleshooting existing issues, so for sure why tear out the DCC wiring that works well when it's the switch motors that don't? While innovation and improvement are undoubtedly central aims in the big redo, if one were to see my renovation strategy through a purely practical lens, it's a series of operational and functional limitations of the current setup that end up necessitating a lot of the technical changes, and aesthetic/prototypical limitations that account for the alterations topside. One could argue as a pragmatic matter, that these things are indeed 'broke.' :)
Eric, this was a great video, thanks so much. While you are in "testing" phase for replacing the solenoid machines with servo control, I might suggest you consider Walthers switch machines. They offer them in both horizontal and vertical mount, have many different options for control and they have DCC built in at a very reasonable cost.
Thank you. Your videos have given me inspiration and many, many tips. Fellow lifelong learner here. I'm 76, haven't model railroaded since I was ten. I made grass with green food coloring and sawdust. My how the hobby has advanced! I am in great health and a recent widower who's time is now all mine. It. Is. Time! I am now the proud owner of the steep learning curve of a CNC router, laser engraver/cutter, and a resin printer. I'm excited about learning about Arduino and DIY DCC. I'm looking at Z scale for its large ability in a small space. I like model building. I wonder if there is room for TWO Art Deco train stations on my layout! Thanks again!
Thanks Fred - my condolences for your loss and I'm happy to hear that you've come back to the hobby with some new challenges in mind! I've always wanted to get into Z scale, at some point I'll pick up a bit of track and a train and see how it goes! In the meantime enjoy taking the plunge with DIY DCC and Arduino. I've got my Arduino sitting upstairs waiting for some spare time to program it!
Dear Eric, fully understand the goal of this new project. Very interesting how you explained your approach of both the learning curve and the different aspects of the rewiring, plus the way you explained the tryout concept as a leeway into the rewiring process. Curious for your thoughts and plans, as for the next episodes of this quest. Cheerio
hey a real nice video on coming changes on your RR. I have to agree a test bed for up grades by building a switching layout is a wise move. I like the WS lighting stuff but myself I do enjoy soldering my own LED and SMD for the layout. I use an old computer power supply and run a 12 v buss ( for my switches) and a 5 v buss for my lighting. Wiring can and does gets to be a rats nest and sometimes are a pain to Trouble shoot. Funny thing is I have been upgrading my systems as well so I will be looking forward to your progress.
Thanks Will - I've looked into the computer power supply bus and it's certainly good for turnouts. A large number of my LEDs are 5-12V which likewise would be compatible on either bus - more than a few are also 3V. Might be nice having a one stop shop for accessory power. It'll be something to fiddle with on the little layout.
Good luck for your new underground. I am excited what comes in the next weeks. What I prefer for my modules is a white painting for the bottom to see better the cables, drives and connections. And I marking each switch, house lighting and other stuff with numbers, to see directly what is what. I’ve use the peco switches directly witch my hand by finger flickable points. But look for switchdrives from mtb, like the pm1, please. Maybe they are interesting for your layout. Cheers form over the atlantic 🙋♂
Thanks Jens - interesting info for the new layout! The MTB switches seem the way to go for upgrading CCMR - they seem to be the same footprint as the old solenoids which is nice.
Like a couple of other comments, I feel servos driven by an Arduino is a great way to go. My N scale club has moved from Tortoise to servos for our club layout. We can buy servos for only a couple of dollars per servo, and mount them using aluminum channel. They take up very little room and if a servo fails (very rare in our experience) a replacement can be put into place in a matter of minutes. We use Arduinos to not only drive the servos, but also any linked signals, so all the control is in one place.
Hi Eric. Great video and some great thoughts. I am keen to see how things develop. I worked for a while in electronics where the wiring is very disciplined and follows specific routes only branching off where required and mainly at right angles. Looks good but hard to achieve esecially if one is adding to the wiring.
Thanks Mel. It’s exactly that disciplined approach I want to build into the layout at this point. May be challenging but I have a few ways in mind to map things out ahead of time that might help a great deal.
Good thoughts: Just a thing to ponder I haven't seen it yet but a good old PC power supply could power all of the accessories and maybe even the trains.. They have 3V +-5 v +- 12 v and sometime even 6 and 15 volt. a single 500W supply could get rid of all of the wall warts that plug into 120VAC and there are even plug boards that use the big connector and break it out to a screw terminal strip. Many possibilities for busses for different areas.
Hi Peter - thanks for this information, I haven't seen that yet either but it certainly could simplify the power issue. Thank you! Post edit: ua-cam.com/video/lHEvnhDVXR0/v-deo.html
Quoting debby boone made me laugh! Stapling the wires did not🙈 maybe try some velcro strips on the test shelf. Ez on & off if there's trouble. I bought a couple tortoise machines myself to try...so big not to mention costly. I might use them on the x'ing gates. Servos are tiny, inexpensive & ez with arduinos. I want to try capacitive touch switch pads for that...hint hint😂 best of luck with the new endeavor, learning some new electric & electronic skills will be a breeze for you.
I would agree and recommend discontinuing the practice of stapling wires. Every time a wire is pinched, it creates electrical resistance, heat and a potential to break the insulation, now energizing that staple which might come in contact with something else. I would also insulate those exposed solder joints, either heat shrink or liquid electrical tape.
Yeah some of that decidedly old-school stuff won't be there anymore, so I won't defend stapling wires. Unlikely I'll go with tortoise. Too unwieldly for the space, and there are lots of options for smooth switching that don't continuously draw power.
Eric my friend, the difference betwen now and day 1, is that layout "completion" is done. While on day 1 it was just a plan. Plan that you followed or changed. Hence non planified on day 1 wiring with things you added later on, or discovered, new products or simply you, willing to try or add. Ok now, close your eyes and try to go back on day 1. How could you imagine that very nice result with that layout and builted it in a better way ? Almost impossible ! Now that it´s done, far far easier if you don´t change nothing on the track, to make simpler more efficient wiring. And for exhibition, just add an easy removable fascia, as to keep secret about CMR. Having a test lab mini shelf test track is not a bad idea. Avoiding weird experiments on the big one. Now with everything done on CMR, rebuilt it like EMD did for its loco. Do it upside down. Far more easier and comfortablr than under it. Drop of hot lead soldering falling on your head or face is among model railroading pleasure.... Good spin my friend😊
Change is good. You aren't the same modeler who started building that layout, and rewiring it is also an opportunity to reevaluate the top side of the layout. Don't be afraid to change stuff. Don't be afraid to trash the layout completely and rebuild it, even if identically, but as a more portable sectional layout that better supports your desire to display the layout. As I recall, you had issues with the scenery not necessarily Chicago-like - well, here's a chance to fix that too. Remember, the greatest constant in the universe is change. 😉
I don't think I'd ever wholesale rebuild CCMR in modular form or otherwise, let alone trash what's there (save the tunnels). The next evolution will be the shelf layout. But with upgrades I think CCMR will offer years and years of enjoyment. At some point I'll assess its portability out of the basement while it's off the shelf, I think we'll be OK even if the basement door needs to come off :)
I made the decision to part ways with an incomplete N scale HCD layout that I had been working on for years. I never had much time for it, and having to relocate to a smaller place, I got rid of it. I'm in the planning stages of a 1'x 5' switching layout now.
I hope a lot of other people of my generation in this hobby that see this video really give thought about what you basically said in regards to how no matter how advance or talented one can be that things will always continue to be a learning experience. Also, question if I may ask? With following your amazing work, I was wondering if it would be alright if I got in contact with you via email for some help from your expertis for ways to improve my layout and modeling? Only if you're OK with it that is.
I loved the quotes in the beginning Eric, quite inspirational. As another option to the Tortoises, have you looked in r/c aircraft servos? From what Ive seen they work good for N and HO.
Regarding removable and portable modules, why not look at T-TRAK? The received version is for builidng large loops in gyms and convention halls, but there's a lot of potential beyond that.
Excited to see the mini testbed layout! Will be an interesting project in itself. Great discussion. Thanks for sharing!
Should be a lot of fun and certainly instructive. A nice break for trying out new stuff.
Thanks Eric for the update. Loved how you explained the upcoming processes. An model of Pickens Kane ,Cherry St., or even Kingsbury would be cool. Thanks for sharing!
I'll see if I can do my fellow Chicago natives proud with some accurate prototype modeling!
Let me also add one that I fight with in the hobby at times from FDR:
"We have nothing to fear but fear itself,"
Excited to grow with you on your journey.
Scott
Hear, hear - thanks Scott!
Hi Eric I'm even intrigued by watching what your planning with the wiring. Keep up the great work my friend,looking foward to watching your progress!😊
Thanks Carl - I find a certain pleasure in doing wires. I'm no electronics expert but I'm handy enough with a soldering iron!
lovely layout
Thanks!
Thank you for keeping us in the loop, Eric. I loved all the Zen at the opening. It lends the appropriate amount of gravity to the task ahead of you. Wiring is something I have been remiss in addressing on my layout, and unfortunately, I will be on my back if I tackle it. (Not ideal)
I too partake of Charlie’s railroad quite often. Although it is OO, his methodology is second to none, albeit a bit dry at times. I’ve learned a great deal from him. I’m really torn between keeping things as they are here and improving them, or making drastic layout changes. The ducking under is getting old. Look forward to your next installment. (Love the Stranger Things reference, btw)
Take care,
Brooklyn
Totally agree Brooklyn - redoing wiring is pretty tough without being able to put the layout in a position that makes it easy to work with. I'd definitely not recommend having to go back and redo stuff to organize it, with a number of years and new foresight I think about wiring much differently now. The test layout will certainly reflect some of that new thinking. Glad you got the reference - every so often I find a viewer gets the occasional obscure cultural or musical references in the content ;). A fun little easter egg I suppose!
Without a doubt we viewers will find the videos very instructive and inspirational, as usual. But that rabbit hole sure looks deep from here! 😃
That's for sure Andy. It's going to be a journey, but one that will absolutely build skills in the hobby.
Interesting. Your going to do the opposite of what I am doing. My layout is on a tabel in the living/dining room. So my goal is to have it as such that only one or maybe two wires com out of it...
On the other hand, yes I try to organize my inside wires. I don't mind some extra feed of wire as long as its organized, fixed in place and running in straight lines...
ua-cam.com/video/3thv5ClQkQE/v-deo.htmlsi=_H4OWH2ksgOnyHo4
@@folkertvanwijk5168 There will probably end up being 6-8 or so wires running to the layout in a single bundle, which should be very helpful. Spot on about organizing. That really is important here and a big part of the task ahead!
After redoing my yard, I had to rework the bus line for the new feeders. I took the time to organize all the wiring under the layout including some of the feeders that was never attached to the bus wire. I like your approach to it, just because it's not broken, there's always room for improvement.
Thanks Ron - and like you I've got a yard add-on here so one way or another the power will have to be redone!
Hey, Eric. As usual, this video contains a lot of food for thought. Everyone should build the layout they find satisfactory. What works for you might not work for the next person and vice versa. I will admit to being a cheerleader for "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" and "Pick your battles". Your curiosity as a scientist is certainly going to play into the way you approach the hobby just as my own background as a machinist and process engineer lends a certain practicality to my approach. The way I see it, I've got enough things going on that don't work well so I shouldn't be messing with anything that does. You have done many things I have found interesting, particularly your approach to structure lighting, so I will be following with great interest. I'm sure there will be a lot of useful and interesting ideas coming from the renovation, and as usual, I will consider all ideas at length before I pick and choose. (Cost/benefit analysis?) Best wishes for great results.
Hi Thomas, always great to hear from you! The practical approach you advocate for makes a lot of sense to help triaging and troubleshooting existing issues, so for sure why tear out the DCC wiring that works well when it's the switch motors that don't? While innovation and improvement are undoubtedly central aims in the big redo, if one were to see my renovation strategy through a purely practical lens, it's a series of operational and functional limitations of the current setup that end up necessitating a lot of the technical changes, and aesthetic/prototypical limitations that account for the alterations topside. One could argue as a pragmatic matter, that these things are indeed 'broke.' :)
Eric, this was a great video, thanks so much. While you are in "testing" phase for replacing the solenoid machines with servo control, I might suggest you consider Walthers switch machines. They offer them in both horizontal and vertical mount, have many different options for control and they have DCC built in at a very reasonable cost.
Thanks Ron, appreciate the suggestion. I had seen these but hadn't strongly considered them yet.
Thank you. Your videos have given me inspiration and many, many tips. Fellow lifelong learner here. I'm 76, haven't model railroaded since I was ten. I made grass with green food coloring and sawdust. My how the hobby has advanced! I am in great health and a recent widower who's time is now all mine. It. Is. Time! I am now the proud owner of the steep learning curve of a CNC router, laser engraver/cutter, and a resin printer. I'm excited about learning about Arduino and DIY DCC. I'm looking at Z scale for its large ability in a small space. I like model building. I wonder if there is room for TWO Art Deco train stations on my layout! Thanks again!
Thanks Fred - my condolences for your loss and I'm happy to hear that you've come back to the hobby with some new challenges in mind! I've always wanted to get into Z scale, at some point I'll pick up a bit of track and a train and see how it goes! In the meantime enjoy taking the plunge with DIY DCC and Arduino. I've got my Arduino sitting upstairs waiting for some spare time to program it!
Can't wait!!
Thanks Rick!
Dear Eric, fully understand the goal of this new project. Very interesting how you explained your approach of both the learning curve and the different aspects of the rewiring, plus the way you explained the tryout concept as a leeway into the rewiring process. Curious for your thoughts and plans, as for the next episodes of this quest. Cheerio
Glad you enjoyed Vincent, thank you!
hey a real nice video on coming changes on your RR. I have to agree a test bed for up grades by building a switching layout is a wise move. I like the WS lighting stuff but myself I do enjoy soldering my own LED and SMD for the layout. I use an old computer power supply and run a 12 v buss ( for my switches) and a 5 v buss for my lighting. Wiring can and does gets to be a rats nest and sometimes are a pain to Trouble shoot. Funny thing is I have been upgrading my systems as well so I will be looking forward to your progress.
Thanks Will - I've looked into the computer power supply bus and it's certainly good for turnouts. A large number of my LEDs are 5-12V which likewise would be compatible on either bus - more than a few are also 3V. Might be nice having a one stop shop for accessory power. It'll be something to fiddle with on the little layout.
Good luck for your new underground. I am excited what comes in the next weeks. What I prefer for my modules is a white painting for the bottom to see better the cables, drives and connections. And I marking each switch, house lighting and other stuff with numbers, to see directly what is what. I’ve use the peco switches directly witch my hand by finger flickable points. But look for switchdrives from mtb, like the pm1, please. Maybe they are interesting for your layout. Cheers form over the atlantic 🙋♂
Thanks Jens - interesting info for the new layout! The MTB switches seem the way to go for upgrading CCMR - they seem to be the same footprint as the old solenoids which is nice.
@@ChicagoCrossingRR Yes, i think so. A lot of people in my model railway club "Fremo" have this types. Have a good start in the weekend!
Like a couple of other comments, I feel servos driven by an Arduino is a great way to go. My N scale club has moved from Tortoise to servos for our club layout. We can buy servos for only a couple of dollars per servo, and mount them using aluminum channel. They take up very little room and if a servo fails (very rare in our experience) a replacement can be put into place in a matter of minutes. We use Arduinos to not only drive the servos, but also any linked signals, so all the control is in one place.
Thanks Eric. Will consider.
Rachel’s “Water From the Same Source.” Fantastic music! Video quite nice,too. Thanks.
Rachel's was one of my absolute favorite bands from the late 90s/early 2000's. It was truly sad when Jason Noble passed away.
Hi Eric. Great video and some great thoughts. I am keen to see how things develop. I worked for a while in electronics where the wiring is very disciplined and follows specific routes only branching off where required and mainly at right angles. Looks good but hard to achieve esecially if one is adding to the wiring.
Thanks Mel. It’s exactly that disciplined approach I want to build into the layout at this point. May be challenging but I have a few ways in mind to map things out ahead of time that might help a great deal.
Good thoughts: Just a thing to ponder I haven't seen it yet but a good old PC power supply could power all of the accessories and maybe even the trains.. They have 3V +-5 v +- 12 v and sometime even 6 and 15 volt. a single 500W supply could get rid of all of the wall warts that plug into 120VAC and there are even plug boards that use the big connector and break it out to a screw terminal strip. Many possibilities for busses for different areas.
Hi Peter - thanks for this information, I haven't seen that yet either but it certainly could simplify the power issue. Thank you! Post edit: ua-cam.com/video/lHEvnhDVXR0/v-deo.html
Quoting debby boone made me laugh! Stapling the wires did not🙈 maybe try some velcro strips on the test shelf. Ez on & off if there's trouble. I bought a couple tortoise machines myself to try...so big not to mention costly. I might use them on the x'ing gates. Servos are tiny, inexpensive & ez with arduinos. I want to try capacitive touch switch pads for that...hint hint😂 best of luck with the new endeavor, learning some new electric & electronic skills will be a breeze for you.
I would agree and recommend discontinuing the practice of stapling wires. Every time a wire is pinched, it creates electrical resistance, heat and a potential to break the insulation, now energizing that staple which might come in contact with something else. I would also insulate those exposed solder joints, either heat shrink or liquid electrical tape.
Yeah some of that decidedly old-school stuff won't be there anymore, so I won't defend stapling wires. Unlikely I'll go with tortoise. Too unwieldly for the space, and there are lots of options for smooth switching that don't continuously draw power.
@@PennCentral99 As above.
Looking forward to your test lest Layout. Have you looked into LCC ?
Eric my friend, the difference betwen now and day 1, is that layout "completion" is done. While on day 1 it was just a plan.
Plan that you followed or changed.
Hence non planified on day 1 wiring with things you added later on, or discovered, new products or simply you, willing to try or add.
Ok now, close your eyes and try to go back on day 1. How could you imagine that very nice result with that layout and builted it in a better way ?
Almost impossible !
Now that it´s done, far far easier if you don´t change nothing on the track, to make simpler more efficient wiring.
And for exhibition, just add an easy removable fascia, as to keep secret about CMR.
Having a test lab mini shelf test track is not a bad idea. Avoiding weird experiments on the big one.
Now with everything done on CMR, rebuilt it like EMD did for its loco. Do it upside down. Far more easier and comfortablr than under it. Drop of hot lead soldering falling on your head or face is among model railroading pleasure....
Good spin my friend😊
It's way easier to work in this position - and at this point the only way back to operation is through so to speak. Much to do!
Change is good. You aren't the same modeler who started building that layout, and rewiring it is also an opportunity to reevaluate the top side of the layout. Don't be afraid to change stuff. Don't be afraid to trash the layout completely and rebuild it, even if identically, but as a more portable sectional layout that better supports your desire to display the layout. As I recall, you had issues with the scenery not necessarily Chicago-like - well, here's a chance to fix that too.
Remember, the greatest constant in the universe is change. 😉
I don't think I'd ever wholesale rebuild CCMR in modular form or otherwise, let alone trash what's there (save the tunnels). The next evolution will be the shelf layout. But with upgrades I think CCMR will offer years and years of enjoyment. At some point I'll assess its portability out of the basement while it's off the shelf, I think we'll be OK even if the basement door needs to come off :)
I made the decision to part ways with an incomplete N scale HCD layout that I had been working on for years. I never had much time for it, and having to relocate to a smaller place, I got rid of it. I'm in the planning stages of a 1'x 5' switching layout now.
I do like what can fit in a 1x5 in N scale. Good luck!
I hope a lot of other people of my generation in this hobby that see this video really give thought about what you basically said in regards to how no matter how advance or talented one can be that things will always continue to be a learning experience. Also, question if I may ask? With following your amazing work, I was wondering if it would be alright if I got in contact with you via email for some help from your expertis for ways to improve my layout and modeling? Only if you're OK with it that is.
Absolutely - shoot me a message at chicagocrossingmrr@gmail.com
I loved the quotes in the beginning Eric, quite inspirational.
As another option to the Tortoises, have you looked in r/c aircraft servos? From what Ive seen they work good for N and HO.
I've not, there are a lot of good compact options that are purpose-built for turnouts so probably wouldn't have to resort to aircraft servos :)
I would suggest MTB's MP series of switch machines. They are much smaller than the Tortoise.
Yep!
Regarding removable and portable modules, why not look at T-TRAK? The received version is for builidng large loops in gyms and convention halls, but there's a lot of potential beyond that.
Hi John, mostly because I want to have some specific features to the extension that are custom to the main layout and not really amenable to T-trak.