It’s funny how the second brands start pandering about inclusivity all the clothing items start to look plain. Everyone, especially plus sized people, have been asking for inclusivity from Victoria secret but they’re under this assumption that this means taking away the glitz and the glamour and fun of lingerie and undergarments. Plus sized to petite people and everyone in between want various sizes and styles of bras not just nude plain bras.
It would have been cool if, for their big rebrand launch commercial, they redid some of their old iconic runway looks, but re-fitted for a more inclusive range of models. The current new commercials feel pretty same-y to other brands, so they should make use of their glamorous aesthetic to stand out, just approached in a healthier way.
@@AmandaDavis6130 Ive commented something similar a couple of times, but we gotta remember that it's essentially a whole new team of people running the show, and it seems to me like they're just trying to distance themselves from the toxicity of the old branding. Consumer feedback is important, and if consumers keep saying that they want the glitz and glamour back on top of the inclusivity, then we're likely to start seeing it 🤷
it's so stupid how lingerie brands go the body positivity route and decide to make their clothes look boring and grey. they couldn't follow the savage x fenty route?
I refuse to pay a company $50 a month and still have to pay for items that I wanted anyway. Savagex fenty just takes money from people to say it's a subscription but you gain nothing from it. Plus the size ranges are trash because all of it is very uncomfortable, too small and scratchy.
Fenti features all different sizes, shapes and colors of models in their advertising, and the MODELS reflect that in the show too! No wonder women prefer Fenti
they totally missed the boat on the y2k revival trend/ and bimbo culture. instead of rebranding in a way that feels very performative and hollow, they shouldve leaned into their pink sweat suites, and fragrances, and the stuff that was so popular in the 90s / early 00s.
The biggest issue I have with VS's rebrand is how surface level it is. I worked at VS for years and we were all used and abused while in the storefront because of their policies. I became a manager there when I was 20, and all my peers were in their 20s as well. This is on purpose because VS is a predatory company and knows that younger employees are more willing to be exploited (when I worked, I was once clocked in for 24 straight hours because they wouldn't let me go home because my job wasn't done. I was 21/22, and this was such common practice that it was considered expected as a right of passage). VS has a horrible problem with organized theft, and it's on the STORE EMPLOYEES to stop it. I was threatened, followed out side of work, had stuff thrown at us in the store, etc on a DAILY BASIS because VS Asset Protection didn't care about us, they only cared about the product. I really implore everyone to think even further that the "brand face" and how their policies effect their every day employees. And this isn't even discussing the distorted idea of blatant sexuality and personal value that I developed as a 19 year old and I'm still working to breaking even now as a 25 year old.
I interviewed for a job with them when I was in a gap year between degrees and could immediately see this attitude you are describing. The interviewer/manager was talking a lot about sales quotas and asked me how I would contribute. Immediate red flag. She didn't care about me. She cared about the bonuses and incentives only managers get from their young staff making minimum wage. I was polite throughout the interview, but could not hide the lack of enthusiasm for sales goals. I should have sent a thank you to her for being so transparent about not giving a crap about the workers.
Your right about the huge problem w theft. I used to be a junkie and wouldn’t partake bc I wasn’t all that good at boosting but people I hung out with would steal from VS like crazy for the purpose of being re sold to private buyers requesting the brand. So it was not just like they were stealing one or two items an entire display of bras and underwear were taken and the large bottles of perfumes had a high re sell value (I think if you managed to steal 4 you could make 100$) with the underwear you got a dollar per pair and people would literally steal 50-100 pairs at a time. Edit: It should not have been the employees that had to deal with that bc the people boosting were so desperate for money (bc they needed drugs) that they could be dangerous to deal with
I adore how everyone starts talking about those shitty brands, society needs to realize how much harm they're doing to the world. But we cannot be fooled by their constant rebranding, we have to ask for more real action from them. Thank you! Your videos are always interesting :)
Theres videos on youtube of taylor hill making fun of indians and mocking their accent. She’s very unattractive, has a square face and hollow eyes/gets fillers for it. She should be called out imo
Younger generations are understanding the harm of over-consumption, fast fashion, and lack of inclusivity. It seems like almost every store (save for super high-end luxury) are making low-quality items that go out of style, break down in the wash quickly, and/or only fit fashion model physiques. I've seen a lot of people on social media complaining about how VS quality went downhill so they stopped shopping there.
I’m not asking corporations for anything, except to fucking stop. Stop all of it. I’m gonna wrap my tits and bits in old rags just make the marketing stop.
A thing I dislike about all this is that the models are no longer “angels”.. that name could’ve stayed but I think they unconsciously don’t associate inclusivity with being pristine and elegant. Keyword being “unconscious”, because I can see them being ignorant to how that comes off, but not necessarily against calling them angels if it came down to it. Idk, I miss the high glam era, but definitely don’t care for the eating disorders, lack of diversity, or fat/transphobia. I’m glad they chose to rework their business outlook
It IS kind of telling isn't it, that they just couldn't see fatness and glamor and angelic as being compatible. The second they allowed plus sized models, they needed to go for this "natural" utilitarian look... I agree. Victoria secret WAS glam. They should have leaned into gen-z's tastes for drama and just done it in a less objectifying/male gaze-y way.
Well, customer feedback is important. We gotta remember that it's essentially a whole new team of people running the show, and it really seems like they're just trying to distance themselves from the toxicity of the old branding. If consumers keep saying they wanna see sexy, plus-sized angels, then it's likely we'll start seeing them 🤷
I noticed that the VS look wasn’t “a fantasy” when the executive was harassing his female colleague because she didn’t look like an Angel. It’s never been a fantasy, and giving it a stage makes it an expectation.
I just love how almost everyone probably follows the exact same UA-camrs!! It just makes me feel like we’re a community, that doesn’t really have a community space you know?
The fact this is a womens underwear store created by a man to make it more accessible to men (to buy tho, not to wear) says everything we need to know about the brand. Throw it in the bin
Yup..... Imagine so much power to be inclusive and serve a large clientele from all walks of life and genders and sticking to the sleazy patriarchal tradition of cis het men thinking of women as sex objects to be dressed up to their taste, to satisfy THEM
@@shreihals9314 having monopoly on best looking lingerie in a given market makes you able to set the standards for what's "desirable" and a goal to achieve....and if you have eyes you can notice how unrealistic most of these goals are, without mentioning that a large part of population ends up excluded from the fun that is dressing up in sexy négliger that actually fits them...... What OP says in a nutshell is that the owner of the brand only creates to feed his fantasy without regard to the real life consequences it'll have
The whole lingerie line always looked to me like they were made for the common denominator men's sexual gaze. I know it's easy now to shit on VS now and it's en vogue to say "Well I always knew they were crap!", but I never found their pieces to be pretty, interesting or exuding some kind of moxie... or just anything. It was the blandest stuff and looked cheap. There are so many other female underwear producer who make high quality garments that actually look good with nice colors that isn't snow white, black, neon pink, red and maybe blue.
Something I’ve been noticing lately that’s been happening with all sorts of brands is that they’ll plaster pictures of plus size models all over their stores, but they won’t carry anything bigger than a large. For reference, I’m a US size 18, and I usually go for XL T-shirts, and I’m running into this kind of thing ALL THE TIME. I’ll go into a store, hoping that they’re going to have at least marginally inclusive sizing, and then walk out after not being able to wear any of their clothes. This will usually happen several times in a row until I finally find a store that has my size. It may seem small to someone who doesn’t deal with it, but this experience is honestly humiliating. It’s not about the clothes, it’s about being made to feel out of place in the society around you.
see what i don't understand is why they do this when size xl or at least to my understanding, is a standard sizing. it was always xs to xl so WHY did they stop carrying them boggles my mind (let alone when did xl become a plus size only size? it never was when i was growing up)
just another reason retail is dying. Half of the clientele walks out the door empty handed due to poor quality, bad design/fit, no sizes for them, etc. Don't even get me started on the women's pants.
the rebranded "inclusive" video that they posted to show theyve changed gives me such a fkn ick. im so glad u said it just seems like they want the label of being an "inclusive brand" without actually putting in the leg work, because i COMPLETELY agree and thought that from the second i saw that stupid video
This might be controversial but the reason they didn't want the angels to be inclusive , was because most men (high earners and rich men) would stop coming to the shows. If we look at it from a male gaze point of view, 'the inclusive' approach would not make it a fantasy
Most real men don't want a statuesque model with wings they want smaller real women with real curves . These CEOs and executives are the ones that want to use perfect women only it's a form of misogyny
Knowing about the connection to Epstein and studying about human trafficking… the vs image just doesnt sit right with me. One of the main methods of controling the trafficked person is malnutrition, so it only makes sense that vs was demonising the appereance of women that arent almost clinicaly underweight.
To be honest, I don’t think that the lack of body inclusivity caused the downfall of vs…I think it was more the fact that their designs just became so ugly and cheap that the original unique look of Victoria secret just disappeared. If you showed me a lingerie from today’s VS I wouldn’t know it was from them at all.
So this may be a controversial opinion but I find it kinda funny/am also annoyed by how some dudes praise/love vs models/angels but find women who do OF and p0rn disgusting and send them hate
Yeah, because OF and pornstars make the situation transactional and equal, you pay for sex, they get money. It's no longer about them oggling some unknowing woman and getting their rocks off because they get to control their sexualised perception of her. It's like that saying from house of cards, everything is about sex accept for sex, sex is about power .There's nothing patriarchy hates more than women who are aware of how to use sex/ sex appeal for profit/power
@@basicradical3581 True, it is interesting how most men have no issues with porn, but many seem to hate on OF when in fact they pay for certain material in both cases, it's just that in porn the money goes into other men's pockets while on OF it goes directly to the girls. It's almost like the thought of the woman on the other side actually benefitting from the situation is making it hard for some to jerk off, curious.
I wish that Victoria's Secret would actually expand its size range. I'm not plus sized but I am an H cup, so finding bras in person at a store is virtually impossible. I have to order them online from other retailers so I'm not even able to try anything on first. My mom took me shopping there for all my bras when I was a teenager so honestly it was just sad to gradually get sized out, from only being able to find very limited designs and colors to not being able to find anything at all.
inclusive, large cup size is so hard to come by, when I was younger I was a small band size but a J cup, it was so difficult to find bras that would fit me, that weren’t really expensive. and wearing bras that don’t actually fit your boobs are really harmful! it’s such a shame, that even now with the inclusivity thing, big breasts are STILL excluded.
I wore a DDD in 8th grade and I the last time I went into VS was when I was a freshman or sophomore in HS. I desperately needed a strapless bra and they “sister sized” me into a 34 or 36 DD which was the biggest size they had that could possibly pass as fitting on me. I actually have a 30 band size so of course this bra didn’t work long term and would slip down immediately and offered no support. I really needed someone to tell me that they just didn’t offer anything that would work for me, but they were too sales focused. I’m not upset to see this brand fail
My sisters have this problem. They also used to missize a lot at VS. I was told I was a DD and couldn't stop laughing. I'm a 36C 😂 I had already been properly sized a couple years prior but just agreed to get sized for funsies. They were full throttle vanity sizers.
Interestingly enough, i have the opposite problem. Nothing carries my size cause the band is too small. At least i don't have back pain from them though 😅
I don’t believe it one bit. Victoria Secret as a brand did not want inclusivity until it was popular and their toxicity was no longer benefitting them. Plus, they got rid of the cute pink clothes we all actually would go there and buy. They could’ve kept the “glitz and glamour” with different body sizes too.
I have suchhh nostalgia, and admittedly brand loyalty, for Victoria's Secret 🥺 I even have their rewards card, which I had been pining after since middle school! I feel some type of way about their rebranding. I guess I can better justify giving them money, but it's sad to see how boring they've become. It seems like brands really do think that inclusivity is a tradeoff for sexy, and I'm going to put Dove and Aerie in that camp too. I remember when Pink sold clothes with rhinestones, sequins, polka dots, bright colors, and gave out those free little plush dogs. Now everything is basic and "gender neutral." I was talking to my guy friend who always bought VS for himself in private about how including other genders should mean keeping their signature aesthetic, but redesigning their lingerie and underwear to accommodate different genitals. It's like they're catering to an audience that was never interested in them in the first place, as opposed to finally welcoming all the consumers that have been admiring them from the sidelines. You look at their website and they don't even bother with glamorizing their models or accentuating their best features the way they would with Adriana Lima or Tyra Banks. They got rid of their fashion show instead of letting these more diverse models participate. The market for "natural beauty" and minimalism is so oversaturated right now. How hard would it be for VS to continue with the hyper-feminine glamor they're known for, but just make it more accessible and inclusive?
with the 2000's coming back into style it feels like a missed opportunity to have the rebrand be inspired by their early 2000's collection but this time make it inclusive
I just want the 00's tacky glam but for all sizes and races and by women for women. I get not praising the business model given by men who exploited women for the sake of selling to the male gaze...but theres a lot of women who like the aesthetic for themselves too. The bimbo aesthetic trend is popular with young people especially women for a reason (not just to attract the opposite gender bc many of them are LGBT). Glamour. I need more glamour.
exactly!! being body positive in their products shouldnt suddenly make being glamourous impossible, plus i feel like it makes them indisguinishable from other companies (not just lingerie but any that sell bras tbh) since they dont rlly have their niche of high glamour lingerie anymore
I started in college in 2014 and remember the amount of girls I knew tuning in to the Victoria’s Secret fashion show because it had always been so irrelevant to me as a plus size person anyway. By my sophomore year, I never heard anyone talk about it anymore.
When it comes to the whole debate of "is it exploitative to give inclusive models the same treatment as the angels" the answer is no, no it's not. The VS show attracted women because of the glamour and the beautiful aesthetic, but the bodies of the women being presented among that glamor served to make people (women and others) feel like they would ONLY be allowed to participate in that aesthetic if they also fit those beauty standards. AKA people can only engage in the VS aesthetic if it pleases cishet men. And the fact that the aesthetic was taken away as soon as those beauty standards were also taken away continues to reinforce the idea that the aesthetic can ONLY be for cis women that appease to men. That's where the exploitation happens. The moment you make the show inclusive, it takes away the aspect of it that caters towards pleasing a particular brand of men, and puts the focus back on the beautiful aesthetic, which is what women (and others) came to the show for, and it makes it so that everyone can participate. Let plus size women and trans women and disabled women and senior women and fuck it, men too and trans men, let all of them participate in the glamour. That's not exploitative, because it no longer becomes about sexually pleasing anyone.
100% They could have kept the angel concept and make it inclusive. My first thought when seeing their rebrand was "Oh, so you can't be an angel if you are not a cis size 6"
I’m happy that the company has finally been exposed and being held somewhat accountable for the amount of damage it has caused to the female population and how society in general views and treats people based on their weight and appearance. I’m afraid that it’s probably going to take decades to reverse the damages caused…
I agree. It's definitely going to take a long time for the brand to negate or repair any of the damage it's caused over the years, but at least it's moving in the right direction. I think consumers just need to try and remind themselves that the company is essentially being run by a whole new team of people after a rapid and dramatic decline in sales and image, so we should all try to keep an open mind and just wait for time to tell how much the brand is changing. A gradual change is better than no change, and may be their only feasible option financially, as opposed to a more sudden and radical rebranding. We really just don't know yet 🤷
What damage 🤔 ? they are basically putting you on a pedestal if you meet the criteria .All the industries Film Adult Fashion and hairdressing all push certain tropes Colourism featurism texturist height shaming body shaming In general and more widely racist exclusion !! Yet we are expected to buy like robots your power is in boycotting
Nah, I miss old VS cause then they at least motivated people and sold something nice. Now, who would wanna look like an obese whale or a lesboman? No normal woman.
as someone with adhd you’re one of the few video essayers i can watch without having to pause/take a break! you’re great at keeping your audience engaged jordan (:
man, this does bring me back 💀 in middle school almost all the girls in my class were obsessed with vs, and living in a small town we didnt have a store there, so on school trips to some bigger city everyone would flock to the store to get a vs body mist 😅 honestly i kinda agree with the ppl who arent buying the whole rebrand thing. youre telling me a massive brand, who has been selling this one body type for decades (and probably contributed to the hardcore diet culture) suddenly changed their mind and decided to become inclusive? yeah, its definitely not that they started flopping and wanted to cater to the body positivity crowd to save themselves 🤨
The only thing that incentivized me to buy from VS were those little plushie dogs you got during sale events and once they stopped doing those bonuses I stopped shopping there. I still have my collection to this day.
As a teenager me and my sister would make a entire night out of the fashion show each year order pizza and buy a vs set to wear while watching and it’s just nostalgic to think back on and I wish they kept the fashion show and just added more inclusive models I feel like it would seem more genuine
You and Mina Le putting out VS downfall videos at the exact same time is amazing! It's like you were on the exact same wavelength to dump on VS extra hard 😂 Love these deep dives
I can't wait to watch and hear your perspective on this. I've been noticing that VS has evidently rebranded, and I've mostly noticed because of how disingenuous it seems. We're all supposed to believe that this massive company, responsible for a ton of this toxic marketing/advertisting all throughout the 2000s and 2010s that encouraged many an eating disorder, has suddenly had a coincidental change of heart right around the same time that it has become less profitable to market in such an obviously "preying on your insecurities" kind of way??? Sorry for the run-on sentence/rant, it just really irritates me. They still don't really sell my bra size, either. The smallest band they do is 32, and the largest cup seems to be DDD (for all bands, but mostly 34+). I believe the largest band size they sell is 40, which leaves a ton of people out. I don't think this has changed much, if at all, with their rebranding; it would've been nice if they also made their sizing more inclusive along with their rebrand.
It's not really realistic to expect them to expand their sizes right away with the rebrand. A new team took over the company after a rapid and dramatic decline in sales. It takes time and money to design, pattern and put into production larger or smaller sizes of items that a company has never produced before. It seems to me like they're doing what they can with the resources that they have. Anything else is gonna take time
@@pointegal96 I know they produce DDD, and have for a while (the extent of which I do not know, but my mom definitely owns/owned one), but I don't think that most stores actually kept many in stock, if any 🤷
It's entirely possible that they just don't have the money to do so right now, or that they're trying to tighten up their supply chain in the hopes of producing more ethically sourced garments. I know I sound like I'm trying to defend them, but there really could be so many things going on behind the scenes that the general public isn't aware of, so we just gotta wait it out. I mean, would you rather they transition to more ethically sourced garments first, or come out with an expanded size range being produced in sweatshops? Just an added thought
You’re absolutely correct! My best friend was just telling me how she went to get refitted as she hadn’t been measured in a long time and the girl fitting her was apologizing and telling her that they don’t even sell her size. She was great though and pointed her towards a brand that was very inclusive in bra sizing
When I was ~13, I was lucky and had a generous older sister who bought me a few sets from the dream collection I think it was called? The one where the bras had sparkly lace and were bedazzled basically. As a typical awkward teen, it made me feel special and boosted my confidence despite just being undergarments. However, as I continued to age, my boobs kept getting bigger (much to my dismay lol) and my bra size was no longer in their size range. Since I was still a teen and didn't have the resources nor the knowledge about different brands that weren't carried in local stores, I was so dejected because I had to use "boring" bras that I thought only older women wore. I became self conscious and felt like there was something inherently wrong with my size. All this just because I couldn't take part in the cult-like following of VS. I was already suffering from severe body dysmorphia, so this whole experience just further added to that.
I remember this era. I grew up going to plus size stores with my mom because that is what she is and the way they marketed clothing made it seem like you had your taste compromised a lot. I was big cheated ever since I hit puberty and I remember my mom buying me plain bras and not wired ones. I believe my mom avoided getting wired bras was because she thought it was because it made you look promiscuous which isn’t true. I absolutely despised wearing non wired bras and always felt frumpy in my body. Victoria secret was also the store at the time that was popular along with forever 21 and their ridiculous sizing.
You've got a point there, the last time I was in a Victoria's Secret (a few years ago) there was NOTHING I liked, it all looked really basic or terrible. As someone who remembers the 90's and early 2000's Victoria's Secret I was very disappointed...
No, but where is the Victoria's Secret Corset collection?? Like can you imagine a collection of modified corsets that fit a large range of sizes, maybe with 3 different styles (basic, colorful and patterned) that is a nod for the original inspiration for the name of the brand? It wouldn't even need to be an actual corset with the complicated lacing, just something inspired would be already great!
When I was in high school ('05-'10), I had a page torn out from a VS catalogue of a model in their lingerie on my wall because in my head this was the "perfect" body and what I should aspire to. Realizing so many years later this was all constructed by old men and that 00s diet culture really fucked with my mind and ultimately gave me body dysmorphia that I have to deal with for the rest of my life really makes you FUCKING MAD AM I RIGHT lol
Yeeeeep, this was me and my friend’s in Australia, same years as you. Pictures of the models cut out of magazines and clear-contacted on our school bools etc. we were obsessed and it’s so sad, wish i spent that time doing things for myself more.
Yea me too. I’m turning 30 this year and still struggling with anorexia. I was obsessed with their catalogued as a preteen girl and thought that was the ideal body.
My uncle and aunt worked for Les, can confirm him and epstein were best mates , they met him multiple times, we were all shocked cause Les was really good to me and my cousin helping our parents with clothes toys furniture, let my aunt uncle and cousin live in his massive london central house year round
I never bought anything from VS until college, because all my friends shopped there. I shoehorned myself into a 36A bra for the better part of a decade before I found out I was actually a 30D. 🤨 Of course VS didn't make my actual size, which I found ironic bc all their models were so tiny, yet they didn't make any ACTUAL tiny bra sizes.
I'm an art director for a living and have a different perspective on the "boring" garments in the ads. The ad is all about VS changing their views on what beauty is, which they "now know" is however you define that for yourself. Having the pieces in neutral colors reinforces the idea that YOU define your own beauty. This ad isn't about VS selling their lingerie right now. It's about getting the message across that they've changed and to make sure that's evident, they put the models in neutral garments so you pay more attention to the model and the message rather than the lingerie itself. If they put more diverse models in the same styles they were selling before, it would feel less authentic and more like a clear marketing ploy. (This is still a marketing ploy btw, but it's less obvious because of how they styled this.)
I grew up during the height of the VS hype. Even now I feel so bad for my younger self. I was an average sized girl, and VS bras were so uncomfortable for me. They didn't make bras for varied breast shapes. Even now, looking at their more "inclusive" styles, I can see how uncomfortable they'd be to wear in the long-term.
Their lack of size inclusivity is really what's killed them. I don't mean size inclusive in the going up to bigger sizes thing, I mean in bras that actually fit. The way they size people for bras is ridiculous. They'll put you in a bra that's way too big in the band, often 3 or 4 sizes bigger than your actual size, and far too small in the cup. This is so they can fit as many people as possible into as few sizes as they can. On the other hand, Bravissimo size correctly and accurately. They'll put you in a bra that has the right band size and the right cup size, which will be much more comfortable than Victoria's Secret sizing. Victoria's Secret are failing I think at least in part because they don't size women correctly and don't make larger cup sizes. They go up in the band, but that's useless if you have an average back size and a larger cup.
The crazy thing about this is that the shows/fashion side are incredible pieces of art... But the actual lingerie they sell just didn't compare, and was completely size exclusive even to those of us who exist in straight sizes due to this idea that "DD+ is huge"
VS fashion shows were my guilty pleasure as a kid lmao. They are legit so beautiful and fun but it does pain me a little watching them again knowing all the shady stuff going behind it
it really bothers me when people use the term plus-size model for people who are not. Plus-size is supposed to be 16 or 18 and up and I constantly see people who look like a size 10-14.
@YesI SaidIt makes sense I guess. I think the sizing might have been different back then. I think my mother was a bigger size than she is now and she is the same level of “skinny”. At least that’s what she tells me.
A lot of brands have jumped in to fill the gaps that VS created, I ended up doing cute bralette shoots with a local company and even they had cups that could fit my size. I was a 36G so you can imagine how much I struggled finding a decent bra for years in Asia, let alone VS.
The peak of VS coincides in my mind with the peak of Mac, both were the top of their markets during the early 2010', both became less popular as the more affordable brands, gink Maybelline, walmart clothing, etc stepped up and truly filled the gap with more affordable version of the products that are just as good or better .
I used to only own Victoria’s Secret bras and underwear. But probably 5 years ago when I entered my 30s I decided to branch out and discovered amazing products from brands like Thirdlove, Tommy John, Neiwai and Natori and I’m not really seeing a reason to give Victoria’s Secret another try. I think this effort is too little too late
The strange thing is that I as a person from Germany always think of the body sprays first when it comes to VS bc it is the only thing we could buy at the German drug store Müller 😅 and everybody was crazy about this and it wasn't cause of the smell but to own a piece of that sexy VS identity🙈
Yes! Here in Brazil, young girls and women were willing to fork out quite a bit of money to get their scents and lip glosses, which had to be imported by someone else that could afford the trip to the us, since we never had stores here.
My mom saw VS as a fun treat for her three girls to enjoy once a year or so. I preferred buying a suit from the men’s department of Dillards once I could afford it, so VS made me feel so gross at the hyper feminine shop. BUT I also saw how excited it made my mtf friend to shop there, but then finding more affordable and just as cute undergarments at freakin’ Walmart and Amazon. Shop keeps also approached us far too often to try to make incentives for bonuses, when we just wanted to browse and not be insured upon being measured in-store. The openness of the shop entrances/windows in malls also make it uncomfortable to a lot of shoppers of all genders/ages imo. I could go on, but those are personal stories from me.
I recently discovered your content and I really appreciate the effort you put into your videos. I am your age, but I feel like you have a significantly bigger knowledge than me on societal issues and other related topics. I find it very inspiring and since I'm working towards being a "better" feminist (sorry for the poor choice of words, I speak french), I am glad I ended up on your channel :)
I actually think VS tried too hard to adapt to the market. They tried to make lingerie that was so outwardly trendy that you had to buy something new every year or every 6 months to stay in fashion. But that’s not what people want, not for that price. We wanted to splurge on something classic.
I was never obsessed with Victoria secret because my boobs have never been smaller then a F cup so I was essentially ‘outcast’ from the company and it’s wild to me that they’d not want more sales by being more inclusive.
I’ve never liked the brand because of how excluded I was from it, even lingerie brands now like savage x fenty exclude me. I’m a 36 J bra size, I would have to travel far for a shop that did my size and they were never affordable or nice and it made me feel awful about myself. I don’t see the point in a lingerie brand when they’re only going to do a handful of sizes.
I know they’ve had sone serious issues, but I miss the days of getting the catalogue in the mail and looking through it with my brother. And I LOVED the fashion shows. They were ART and the made me feel such gloriously creative joy. I also actually really liked their lingerie. And then yeah….
Gisele already had launched her career a few years prior to VS. Taking a contract was a gamble because the high fashion world might stop using her because she’d be labeled as a “catalog model.”
I used to be too (30DD). I just checked now though and they actually have a lot of bras in that size now. They do seem to be expanding the size range which is a good start. I don’t own any VS bras but it’s a step in the right direction that I could find my size now.
ngl I still have VS undies kicking. They're beasts, were constantly on sale for $3, comfy as hell, and I was MEGA annoyed they turned out to be such a shit company 😩
tbh i think seeing plus size models (esp above sz 14) in over the top, elaborate outfits reminiscent of vs in the 90s and 00s would be very empowering to see like we all love the outfits but now the models do not have to have an eating disorder to participate
I know this is proably a bit the wrong topic for you, but i would love a video from you that focuses on Mens-Fashion or rather what is all wrong with Mens- Fashion. Ever since i started to buy clothes for myself i always felt excluded from the collection most Brands offered, because i dont like the boring, plain and kinda Macho- Mens Asthetic that almost EVERY Company tries to sell. And even tho we now Write the Year of our lord 2022 I STill struggle to Find Clothes that make me Feel comfortable in my Skin. Still Most Clothes made for Men are the BARE Minimum, often without many colours, with just Awful designs when it comes to prints and trouseres that are so uncomfortable and boring locking that i wanna die. And i never see anyone talk about that.
I totally agree with all of this. I think something that has interested me during there rebrand is the comments on there Instagram. They are so fatphobic! And racist at times. I think VS tries to catch them and delete them but it is wild the amount of people who are genuinely upset and trolling there feed because they are so used to a certain type of sexy being presented. I find it funny when someone posts “so it’s bad to be skinny and healthy now?” As if the two are always synonymous. As much as I think they need to change more quickly I think easing into it might be due to the reaction of people on Instagram and other social platforms, which granted is cowardly but I can understand from a business/PR standpoint.
I watched the show every year and to be honest while I was certainly impressed at how beautiful the models were I was far more impressed at the craftsmanship of the more impressive pieces/wings. Never inspired me to buy anything VS though 😅 Their bras had such as uncomfortable amount of padding which made my oversize tops look terrible on me.
also important to note that VS products are produced in notoriously unethical environments, their sweatshops are abusive, inhumane and their work force is grossly underpaid. This just makes it even more impossible for me to support them even with a rebrand. especially since they’re a multi billions dollar company that could do so much better in so many ways.
you and mina putting out victoria's secret videos on the same day is insane
I love the fact that so many UA-camrs know each other! It’s like one big family here.✨💖
i guess we’ll have a “rise and fall of victoria’s secret” marathon
I WAS JUST THINKING THAT!!
Yess I was thinking that too when I saw this notif ❤️
Oh my god I was hoping other people saw that!!
It’s funny how the second brands start pandering about inclusivity all the clothing items start to look plain. Everyone, especially plus sized people, have been asking for inclusivity from Victoria secret but they’re under this assumption that this means taking away the glitz and the glamour and fun of lingerie and undergarments. Plus sized to petite people and everyone in between want various sizes and styles of bras not just nude plain bras.
...if we can even get our proper nude
It would have been cool if, for their big rebrand launch commercial, they redid some of their old iconic runway looks, but re-fitted for a more inclusive range of models. The current new commercials feel pretty same-y to other brands, so they should make use of their glamorous aesthetic to stand out, just approached in a healthier way.
@@AmandaDavis6130 Ive commented something similar a couple of times, but we gotta remember that it's essentially a whole new team of people running the show, and it seems to me like they're just trying to distance themselves from the toxicity of the old branding. Consumer feedback is important, and if consumers keep saying that they want the glitz and glamour back on top of the inclusivity, then we're likely to start seeing it 🤷
So true wtf, I’ve noticed this too
!!!!
it's so stupid how lingerie brands go the body positivity route and decide to make their clothes look boring and grey. they couldn't follow the savage x fenty route?
body positive is not ugly clothing lol
savage x fenty's 'body positivity' is mainly just marketing, unfortunately. their actual band/cup size range is pretty pathetic.
I refuse to pay a company $50 a month and still have to pay for items that I wanted anyway. Savagex fenty just takes money from people to say it's a subscription but you gain nothing from it. Plus the size ranges are trash because all of it is very uncomfortable, too small and scratchy.
Fenti features all different sizes, shapes and colors of models in their advertising, and the MODELS reflect that in the show too!
No wonder women prefer Fenti
they totally missed the boat on the y2k revival trend/ and bimbo culture. instead of rebranding in a way that feels very performative and hollow, they shouldve leaned into their pink sweat suites, and fragrances, and the stuff that was so popular in the 90s / early 00s.
Well said! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Kinda crazy how this topic is back to light again! Mina just posted a video like an hour ago! Excited to see both!!
hahahahhaha yesss they posted it olmost at the same time
Crazy coincidence that both of them posted almost the same video at the same time :o
I think its because of the paramount+ docu
The Hulu doc brought a lot back to the forefront
The biggest issue I have with VS's rebrand is how surface level it is. I worked at VS for years and we were all used and abused while in the storefront because of their policies. I became a manager there when I was 20, and all my peers were in their 20s as well. This is on purpose because VS is a predatory company and knows that younger employees are more willing to be exploited (when I worked, I was once clocked in for 24 straight hours because they wouldn't let me go home because my job wasn't done. I was 21/22, and this was such common practice that it was considered expected as a right of passage). VS has a horrible problem with organized theft, and it's on the STORE EMPLOYEES to stop it. I was threatened, followed out side of work, had stuff thrown at us in the store, etc on a DAILY BASIS because VS Asset Protection didn't care about us, they only cared about the product. I really implore everyone to think even further that the "brand face" and how their policies effect their every day employees. And this isn't even discussing the distorted idea of blatant sexuality and personal value that I developed as a 19 year old and I'm still working to breaking even now as a 25 year old.
I interviewed for a job with them when I was in a gap year between degrees and could immediately see this attitude you are describing. The interviewer/manager was talking a lot about sales quotas and asked me how I would contribute. Immediate red flag. She didn't care about me. She cared about the bonuses and incentives only managers get from their young staff making minimum wage. I was polite throughout the interview, but could not hide the lack of enthusiasm for sales goals. I should have sent a thank you to her for being so transparent about not giving a crap about the workers.
This sounds horrible 😨... I'm so sorry you went through this
@@sarroumarbeu6810 seconded! glad you got out of there. You are much more resilient than I am for staying.
Omg that's awful
Your right about the huge problem w theft. I used to be a junkie and wouldn’t partake bc I wasn’t all that good at boosting but people I hung out with would steal from VS like crazy for the purpose of being re sold to private buyers requesting the brand. So it was not just like they were stealing one or two items an entire display of bras and underwear were taken and the large bottles of perfumes had a high re sell value (I think if you managed to steal 4 you could make 100$) with the underwear you got a dollar per pair and people would literally steal 50-100 pairs at a time. Edit: It should not have been the employees that had to deal with that bc the people boosting were so desperate for money (bc they needed drugs) that they could be dangerous to deal with
I adore how everyone starts talking about those shitty brands, society needs to realize how much harm they're doing to the world. But we cannot be fooled by their constant rebranding, we have to ask for more real action from them. Thank you! Your videos are always interesting :)
i don’t think there’s any actions they can take, they just need to stop existing. capitalism won’t fix itself, it’s made to be broken!
I think so too
Theres videos on youtube of taylor hill making fun of indians and mocking their accent. She’s very unattractive, has a square face and hollow eyes/gets fillers for it. She should be called out imo
Younger generations are understanding the harm of over-consumption, fast fashion, and lack of inclusivity. It seems like almost every store (save for super high-end luxury) are making low-quality items that go out of style, break down in the wash quickly, and/or only fit fashion model physiques. I've seen a lot of people on social media complaining about how VS quality went downhill so they stopped shopping there.
I’m not asking corporations for anything, except to fucking stop. Stop all of it. I’m gonna wrap my tits and bits in old rags just make the marketing stop.
A thing I dislike about all this is that the models are no longer “angels”.. that name could’ve stayed but I think they unconsciously don’t associate inclusivity with being pristine and elegant. Keyword being “unconscious”, because I can see them being ignorant to how that comes off, but not necessarily against calling them angels if it came down to it. Idk, I miss the high glam era, but definitely don’t care for the eating disorders, lack of diversity, or fat/transphobia. I’m glad they chose to rework their business outlook
They had just named new angels then they removed those titles and ended the show. Those girls never even got to enjoy their angel status 💀
It IS kind of telling isn't it, that they just couldn't see fatness and glamor and angelic as being compatible. The second they allowed plus sized models, they needed to go for this "natural" utilitarian look...
I agree. Victoria secret WAS glam. They should have leaned into gen-z's tastes for drama and just done it in a less objectifying/male gaze-y way.
Well, customer feedback is important. We gotta remember that it's essentially a whole new team of people running the show, and it really seems like they're just trying to distance themselves from the toxicity of the old branding. If consumers keep saying they wanna see sexy, plus-sized angels, then it's likely we'll start seeing them 🤷
yup agreed haha
I noticed that the VS look wasn’t “a fantasy” when the executive was harassing his female colleague because she didn’t look like an Angel. It’s never been a fantasy, and giving it a stage makes it an expectation.
I love that you and Mina Le posted videos about this subject matter on the same day!
Right , like was this planned?
I just love how almost everyone probably follows the exact same UA-camrs!! It just makes me feel like we’re a community, that doesn’t really have a community space you know?
I know right? I think that we appreciate the type of videos!
i rlly like these kinds of vids! any other youtubers u recommend?
@@TheSwagGals madisyn brown, she talks about this kind of topics but mainly music
@@victika9464 The fact that I follow her as well is just golden
@@pietraoliveira6540 ohhh that's cool
Well, I recomend u antiheroines and yhara zayd
The fact this is a womens underwear store created by a man to make it more accessible to men (to buy tho, not to wear) says everything we need to know about the brand. Throw it in the bin
YES 👏🏼 🙌🏼
Yup..... Imagine so much power to be inclusive and serve a large clientele from all walks of life and genders and sticking to the sleazy patriarchal tradition of cis het men thinking of women as sex objects to be dressed up to their taste, to satisfy THEM
Whats wrong with that
@@shreihals9314 having monopoly on best looking lingerie in a given market makes you able to set the standards for what's "desirable" and a goal to achieve....and if you have eyes you can notice how unrealistic most of these goals are, without mentioning that a large part of population ends up excluded from the fun that is dressing up in sexy négliger that actually fits them...... What OP says in a nutshell is that the owner of the brand only creates to feed his fantasy without regard to the real life consequences it'll have
The whole lingerie line always looked to me like they were made for the common denominator men's sexual gaze. I know it's easy now to shit on VS now and it's en vogue to say "Well I always knew they were crap!", but I never found their pieces to be pretty, interesting or exuding some kind of moxie... or just anything. It was the blandest stuff and looked cheap. There are so many other female underwear producer who make high quality garments that actually look good with nice colors that isn't snow white, black, neon pink, red and maybe blue.
Something I’ve been noticing lately that’s been happening with all sorts of brands is that they’ll plaster pictures of plus size models all over their stores, but they won’t carry anything bigger than a large. For reference, I’m a US size 18, and I usually go for XL T-shirts, and I’m running into this kind of thing ALL THE TIME. I’ll go into a store, hoping that they’re going to have at least marginally inclusive sizing, and then walk out after not being able to wear any of their clothes. This will usually happen several times in a row until I finally find a store that has my size. It may seem small to someone who doesn’t deal with it, but this experience is honestly humiliating. It’s not about the clothes, it’s about being made to feel out of place in the society around you.
This is especially true for vs. like you can technically shop there if you’re in the 38-42 range but god forbid you’re bigger than a d cup
yep size 18 too and feel the exact same way. they really trick you into thinking you can shop at the mall lol
see what i don't understand is why they do this when size xl or at least to my understanding, is a standard sizing. it was always xs to xl so WHY did they stop carrying them boggles my mind (let alone when did xl become a plus size only size? it never was when i was growing up)
just another reason retail is dying. Half of the clientele walks out the door empty handed due to poor quality, bad design/fit, no sizes for them, etc. Don't even get me started on the women's pants.
Yea, I also see a lot of product pictures where it’s obvious the bra doesnt even fit right :/
the rebranded "inclusive" video that they posted to show theyve changed gives me such a fkn ick. im so glad u said it just seems like they want the label of being an "inclusive brand" without actually putting in the leg work, because i COMPLETELY agree and thought that from the second i saw that stupid video
This might be controversial but the reason they didn't want the angels to be inclusive , was because most men (high earners and rich men) would stop coming to the shows. If we look at it from a male gaze point of view, 'the inclusive' approach would not make it a fantasy
As a woman it no longer makes it a fantasy to me either. Good advertising is about selling you a dream.
@@Swipe-Left a corny white lens dream. Them being “diverse” is just to pander to us POC since they know their company is flopppingggg
Most real men don't want a statuesque model with wings they want smaller real women with real curves . These CEOs and executives are the ones that want to use perfect women only it's a form of misogyny
@🎀lolicakes🎀 It's nothing to do with "edgy", it's a fact of life and the whole basis of successful marketing.
@@Swipe-Left I agree with you!! It lost its “oomph”
LITERALLY just finished watching mina's video but will watch this one too because i know i know your take won't disappoint
Knowing about the connection to Epstein and studying about human trafficking… the vs image just doesnt sit right with me. One of the main methods of controling the trafficked person is malnutrition, so it only makes sense that vs was demonising the appereance of women that arent almost clinicaly underweight.
This is a good point
To be honest, I don’t think that the lack of body inclusivity caused the downfall of vs…I think it was more the fact that their designs just became so ugly and cheap that the original unique look of Victoria secret just disappeared. If you showed me a lingerie from today’s VS I wouldn’t know it was from them at all.
So this may be a controversial opinion but I find it kinda funny/am also annoyed by how some dudes praise/love vs models/angels but find women who do OF and p0rn disgusting and send them hate
The difference is control. Those women on OF has more control on what they look like and do while making a lot of money.
The p0rn and fashion industry is notorious for being abusive to women. So women controlling men is a threat to them, it’s funny to see imo.
@@Imxel21 honestly that’s a great point
Yeah, because OF and pornstars make the situation transactional and equal, you pay for sex, they get money. It's no longer about them oggling some unknowing woman and getting their rocks off because they get to control their sexualised perception of her. It's like that saying from house of cards, everything is about sex accept for sex, sex is about power .There's nothing patriarchy hates more than women who are aware of how to use sex/ sex appeal for profit/power
@@basicradical3581 True, it is interesting how most men have no issues with porn, but many seem to hate on OF when in fact they pay for certain material in both cases, it's just that in porn the money goes into other men's pockets while on OF it goes directly to the girls. It's almost like the thought of the woman on the other side actually benefitting from the situation is making it hard for some to jerk off, curious.
I wish that Victoria's Secret would actually expand its size range. I'm not plus sized but I am an H cup, so finding bras in person at a store is virtually impossible. I have to order them online from other retailers so I'm not even able to try anything on first. My mom took me shopping there for all my bras when I was a teenager so honestly it was just sad to gradually get sized out, from only being able to find very limited designs and colors to not being able to find anything at all.
inclusive, large cup size is so hard to come by, when I was younger I was a small band size but a J cup, it was so difficult to find bras that would fit me, that weren’t really expensive. and wearing bras that don’t actually fit your boobs are really harmful! it’s such a shame, that even now with the inclusivity thing, big breasts are STILL excluded.
@🎀lolicakes🎀 lol me either, not until it became my size
I wore a DDD in 8th grade and I the last time I went into VS was when I was a freshman or sophomore in HS. I desperately needed a strapless bra and they “sister sized” me into a 34 or 36 DD which was the biggest size they had that could possibly pass as fitting on me. I actually have a 30 band size so of course this bra didn’t work long term and would slip down immediately and offered no support. I really needed someone to tell me that they just didn’t offer anything that would work for me, but they were too sales focused. I’m not upset to see this brand fail
My sisters have this problem. They also used to missize a lot at VS. I was told I was a DD and couldn't stop laughing. I'm a 36C 😂 I had already been properly sized a couple years prior but just agreed to get sized for funsies. They were full throttle vanity sizers.
Interestingly enough, i have the opposite problem. Nothing carries my size cause the band is too small. At least i don't have back pain from them though 😅
I don’t believe it one bit. Victoria Secret as a brand did not want inclusivity until it was popular and their toxicity was no longer benefitting them. Plus, they got rid of the cute pink clothes we all actually would go there and buy. They could’ve kept the “glitz and glamour” with different body sizes too.
I have suchhh nostalgia, and admittedly brand loyalty, for Victoria's Secret 🥺 I even have their rewards card, which I had been pining after since middle school!
I feel some type of way about their rebranding. I guess I can better justify giving them money, but it's sad to see how boring they've become. It seems like brands really do think that inclusivity is a tradeoff for sexy, and I'm going to put Dove and Aerie in that camp too. I remember when Pink sold clothes with rhinestones, sequins, polka dots, bright colors, and gave out those free little plush dogs. Now everything is basic and "gender neutral." I was talking to my guy friend who always bought VS for himself in private about how including other genders should mean keeping their signature aesthetic, but redesigning their lingerie and underwear to accommodate different genitals. It's like they're catering to an audience that was never interested in them in the first place, as opposed to finally welcoming all the consumers that have been admiring them from the sidelines.
You look at their website and they don't even bother with glamorizing their models or accentuating their best features the way they would with Adriana Lima or Tyra Banks. They got rid of their fashion show instead of letting these more diverse models participate. The market for "natural beauty" and minimalism is so oversaturated right now. How hard would it be for VS to continue with the hyper-feminine glamor they're known for, but just make it more accessible and inclusive?
Exactly!! You hit the nail on the head 💯
Natural beauty doesn’t even have to mean plain. Since VS had the whole ‘Angel aesthetic’ they could have really played into that.
I totally agree.
THIS😭
with the 2000's coming back into style it feels like a missed opportunity to have the rebrand be inspired by their early 2000's collection but this time make it inclusive
I totally agree.
Even though I gained weight I still want to wear lace lingerie for the pleasure of feeling comfortable.💕
I just want the 00's tacky glam but for all sizes and races and by women for women. I get not praising the business model given by men who exploited women for the sake of selling to the male gaze...but theres a lot of women who like the aesthetic for themselves too. The bimbo aesthetic trend is popular with young people especially women for a reason (not just to attract the opposite gender bc many of them are LGBT). Glamour. I need more glamour.
exactly!! being body positive in their products shouldnt suddenly make being glamourous impossible, plus i feel like it makes them indisguinishable from other companies (not just lingerie but any that sell bras tbh) since they dont rlly have their niche of high glamour lingerie anymore
I started in college in 2014 and remember the amount of girls I knew tuning in to the Victoria’s Secret fashion show because it had always been so irrelevant to me as a plus size person anyway. By my sophomore year, I never heard anyone talk about it anymore.
When it comes to the whole debate of "is it exploitative to give inclusive models the same treatment as the angels" the answer is no, no it's not. The VS show attracted women because of the glamour and the beautiful aesthetic, but the bodies of the women being presented among that glamor served to make people (women and others) feel like they would ONLY be allowed to participate in that aesthetic if they also fit those beauty standards. AKA people can only engage in the VS aesthetic if it pleases cishet men. And the fact that the aesthetic was taken away as soon as those beauty standards were also taken away continues to reinforce the idea that the aesthetic can ONLY be for cis women that appease to men. That's where the exploitation happens. The moment you make the show inclusive, it takes away the aspect of it that caters towards pleasing a particular brand of men, and puts the focus back on the beautiful aesthetic, which is what women (and others) came to the show for, and it makes it so that everyone can participate. Let plus size women and trans women and disabled women and senior women and fuck it, men too and trans men, let all of them participate in the glamour. That's not exploitative, because it no longer becomes about sexually pleasing anyone.
wish i could upvote this more than once bc honestly, you said it ALL!!
Fully agreed
100% They could have kept the angel concept and make it inclusive. My first thought when seeing their rebrand was "Oh, so you can't be an angel if you are not a cis size 6"
Men are not sexually pleased only by women with the og angel body type
@@penelopeanne307 You missed the part where I said "a particular brand of men"
Me absolutely screaming when you said " a store that men will feel comfortable shopping there" 😬
And the funny part is that if it was focused on 'men feeling comfortable shopping for THEMSELVES in a lingerie store', it would've not been creepy.
I’m happy that the company has finally been exposed and being held somewhat accountable for the amount of damage it has caused to the female population and how society in general views and treats people based on their weight and appearance. I’m afraid that it’s probably going to take decades to reverse the damages caused…
I agree. It's definitely going to take a long time for the brand to negate or repair any of the damage it's caused over the years, but at least it's moving in the right direction. I think consumers just need to try and remind themselves that the company is essentially being run by a whole new team of people after a rapid and dramatic decline in sales and image, so we should all try to keep an open mind and just wait for time to tell how much the brand is changing. A gradual change is better than no change, and may be their only feasible option financially, as opposed to a more sudden and radical rebranding. We really just don't know yet 🤷
What damage 🤔 ? they are basically putting you on a pedestal if you meet the criteria .All the industries Film Adult Fashion and hairdressing all push certain tropes Colourism featurism texturist height shaming body shaming In general and more widely racist exclusion !! Yet we are expected to buy like robots your power is in boycotting
Nah, I miss old VS cause then they at least motivated people and sold something nice. Now, who would wanna look like an obese whale or a lesboman? No normal woman.
@@Someone-qi1rrmotivating to do what? get a lobotomy?
@@Someone-qi1rr💀
as someone with adhd you’re one of the few video essayers i can watch without having to pause/take a break! you’re great at keeping your audience engaged jordan (:
man, this does bring me back 💀 in middle school almost all the girls in my class were obsessed with vs, and living in a small town we didnt have a store there, so on school trips to some bigger city everyone would flock to the store to get a vs body mist 😅
honestly i kinda agree with the ppl who arent buying the whole rebrand thing. youre telling me a massive brand, who has been selling this one body type for decades (and probably contributed to the hardcore diet culture) suddenly changed their mind and decided to become inclusive? yeah, its definitely not that they started flopping and wanted to cater to the body positivity crowd to save themselves 🤨
The only thing that incentivized me to buy from VS were those little plushie dogs you got during sale events and once they stopped doing those bonuses I stopped shopping there. I still have my collection to this day.
god i remember those i used to want one so bad when my mom and sister would drag little me in there😭
@@teddycinema literally the only good sales tactic they had
I WISH THEYD BRING THEM BACK OMGG
@@TinyGhosty right like i hope they bring them back for their anniversary or smth🧎🏻♀️
Yes I so miss those!!
I thought this would be a collab between you and Mina
I’m in love y’all, great minds think alike and you’re both some of my favorite creators
As a teenager me and my sister would make a entire night out of the fashion show each year order pizza and buy a vs set to wear while watching and it’s just nostalgic to think back on and I wish they kept the fashion show and just added more inclusive models I feel like it would seem more genuine
I wish the same. The show was also out around Christmas. They should just open up their casting for a more diverse show.
You and Mina Le putting out VS downfall videos at the exact same time is amazing! It's like you were on the exact same wavelength to dump on VS extra hard 😂 Love these deep dives
I can't wait to watch and hear your perspective on this. I've been noticing that VS has evidently rebranded, and I've mostly noticed because of how disingenuous it seems. We're all supposed to believe that this massive company, responsible for a ton of this toxic marketing/advertisting all throughout the 2000s and 2010s that encouraged many an eating disorder, has suddenly had a coincidental change of heart right around the same time that it has become less profitable to market in such an obviously "preying on your insecurities" kind of way??? Sorry for the run-on sentence/rant, it just really irritates me.
They still don't really sell my bra size, either. The smallest band they do is 32, and the largest cup seems to be DDD (for all bands, but mostly 34+). I believe the largest band size they sell is 40, which leaves a ton of people out. I don't think this has changed much, if at all, with their rebranding; it would've been nice if they also made their sizing more inclusive along with their rebrand.
It's not really realistic to expect them to expand their sizes right away with the rebrand. A new team took over the company after a rapid and dramatic decline in sales. It takes time and money to design, pattern and put into production larger or smaller sizes of items that a company has never produced before. It seems to me like they're doing what they can with the resources that they have. Anything else is gonna take time
Oh did they start carrying DDD? Because 10+ years ago they only carried up to DD iirc
@@pointegal96 I know they produce DDD, and have for a while (the extent of which I do not know, but my mom definitely owns/owned one), but I don't think that most stores actually kept many in stock, if any 🤷
It's entirely possible that they just don't have the money to do so right now, or that they're trying to tighten up their supply chain in the hopes of producing more ethically sourced garments. I know I sound like I'm trying to defend them, but there really could be so many things going on behind the scenes that the general public isn't aware of, so we just gotta wait it out. I mean, would you rather they transition to more ethically sourced garments first, or come out with an expanded size range being produced in sweatshops? Just an added thought
You’re absolutely correct! My best friend was just telling me how she went to get refitted as she hadn’t been measured in a long time and the girl fitting her was apologizing and telling her that they don’t even sell her size. She was great though and pointed her towards a brand that was very inclusive in bra sizing
so happy two of my favorite youtubers are covering this topic on the same day :)) so much content to consume today i feel blessed tbh
When I was ~13, I was lucky and had a generous older sister who bought me a few sets from the dream collection I think it was called? The one where the bras had sparkly lace and were bedazzled basically. As a typical awkward teen, it made me feel special and boosted my confidence despite just being undergarments. However, as I continued to age, my boobs kept getting bigger (much to my dismay lol) and my bra size was no longer in their size range.
Since I was still a teen and didn't have the resources nor the knowledge about different brands that weren't carried in local stores, I was so dejected because I had to use "boring" bras that I thought only older women wore. I became self conscious and felt like there was something inherently wrong with my size. All this just because I couldn't take part in the cult-like following of VS. I was already suffering from severe body dysmorphia, so this whole experience just further added to that.
I remember this era. I grew up going to plus size stores with my mom because that is what she is and the way they marketed clothing made it seem like you had your taste compromised a lot. I was big cheated ever since I hit puberty and I remember my mom buying me plain bras and not wired ones. I believe my mom avoided getting wired bras was because she thought it was because it made you look promiscuous which isn’t true. I absolutely despised wearing non wired bras and always felt frumpy in my body. Victoria secret was also the store at the time that was popular along with forever 21 and their ridiculous sizing.
You've got a point there, the last time I was in a Victoria's Secret (a few years ago) there was NOTHING I liked, it all looked really basic or terrible. As someone who remembers the 90's and early 2000's Victoria's Secret I was very disappointed...
You and Mina Le making videos on the same topic and uploading them on the same day😭😭great minds think alike i suppose
Mina Le and Jordan posting vs video the same day? Funny coincidence and ready to watch both of you!! 🥰🥰🥰
they don't deserve our forgiveness 😠
oh my gosh jordan your hair looks gorgeous! 💕 i'm so excited to hear your take on this.
No, but where is the Victoria's Secret Corset collection?? Like can you imagine a collection of modified corsets that fit a large range of sizes, maybe with 3 different styles (basic, colorful and patterned) that is a nod for the original inspiration for the name of the brand? It wouldn't even need to be an actual corset with the complicated lacing, just something inspired would be already great!
Jordans hair looks superb. Thats all I have to say
They use larger models, but didn’t change their size range at all. These “changes” are purely aesthetic, I hope y’all are not being fooled.
*me, an artist seeing the Victoria’s Secret angels wings*
“Write that down, write that down!”
When I was in high school ('05-'10), I had a page torn out from a VS catalogue of a model in their lingerie on my wall because in my head this was the "perfect" body and what I should aspire to. Realizing so many years later this was all constructed by old men and that 00s diet culture really fucked with my mind and ultimately gave me body dysmorphia that I have to deal with for the rest of my life really makes you FUCKING MAD AM I RIGHT lol
Yeeeeep, this was me and my friend’s in Australia, same years as you. Pictures of the models cut out of magazines and clear-contacted on our school bools etc. we were obsessed and it’s so sad, wish i spent that time doing things for myself more.
@@tashateacup ugh!! But at least we know now and can move on for ourselves!
Have you heard of the song ”victoria’s secret”? You should listen to I think you’ll like it💖
YES EXACTLY LIKE UGHHH
Yea me too. I’m turning 30 this year and still struggling with anorexia. I was obsessed with their catalogued as a preteen girl and thought that was the ideal body.
Hearing why Victoria Secret even began, is honestly all I needed to hear 😂
Can we talk about how a size 12/14 is classed as "plus size" in the modelling industry? That is an average sized person!
@@mochino8894 UK size?
@@mochino8894 ah okay! I think a UK size 12-14 is a US size 8-10
the way you and Mina both dropped this on the same day! queens
My uncle and aunt worked for Les, can confirm him and epstein were best mates , they met him multiple times, we were all shocked cause Les was really good to me and my cousin helping our parents with clothes toys furniture, let my aunt uncle and cousin live in his massive london central house year round
Btw I love the song "Victoria's Secret" that Jax put out. It covers everything important and is still catchy and light
Just finished watching Victoria Secret: angel and demons on Prime, Mina just put a video on this subject and now you? Guess I’m doing a marathon 💕
I never bought anything from VS until college, because all my friends shopped there. I shoehorned myself into a 36A bra for the better part of a decade before I found out I was actually a 30D. 🤨 Of course VS didn't make my actual size, which I found ironic bc all their models were so tiny, yet they didn't make any ACTUAL tiny bra sizes.
I'm an art director for a living and have a different perspective on the "boring" garments in the ads. The ad is all about VS changing their views on what beauty is, which they "now know" is however you define that for yourself. Having the pieces in neutral colors reinforces the idea that YOU define your own beauty. This ad isn't about VS selling their lingerie right now. It's about getting the message across that they've changed and to make sure that's evident, they put the models in neutral garments so you pay more attention to the model and the message rather than the lingerie itself. If they put more diverse models in the same styles they were selling before, it would feel less authentic and more like a clear marketing ploy. (This is still a marketing ploy btw, but it's less obvious because of how they styled this.)
I grew up during the height of the VS hype. Even now I feel so bad for my younger self. I was an average sized girl, and VS bras were so uncomfortable for me. They didn't make bras for varied breast shapes.
Even now, looking at their more "inclusive" styles, I can see how uncomfortable they'd be to wear in the long-term.
Their lack of size inclusivity is really what's killed them. I don't mean size inclusive in the going up to bigger sizes thing, I mean in bras that actually fit.
The way they size people for bras is ridiculous. They'll put you in a bra that's way too big in the band, often 3 or 4 sizes bigger than your actual size, and far too small in the cup. This is so they can fit as many people as possible into as few sizes as they can.
On the other hand, Bravissimo size correctly and accurately. They'll put you in a bra that has the right band size and the right cup size, which will be much more comfortable than Victoria's Secret sizing.
Victoria's Secret are failing I think at least in part because they don't size women correctly and don't make larger cup sizes. They go up in the band, but that's useless if you have an average back size and a larger cup.
The crazy thing about this is that the shows/fashion side are incredible pieces of art... But the actual lingerie they sell just didn't compare, and was completely size exclusive even to those of us who exist in straight sizes due to this idea that "DD+ is huge"
VS fashion shows were my guilty pleasure as a kid lmao. They are legit so beautiful and fun but it does pain me a little watching them again knowing all the shady stuff going behind it
I love how you and mina are in sync go commentary queens!
it really bothers me when people use the term plus-size model for people who are not. Plus-size is supposed to be 16 or 18 and up and I constantly see people who look like a size 10-14.
@YesI SaidIt makes sense I guess. I think the sizing might have been different back then. I think my mother was a bigger size than she is now and she is the same level of “skinny”. At least that’s what she tells me.
Let’s not forget vanity sizing being rampant
it's like when they racialize mixed people as black
A lot of brands have jumped in to fill the gaps that VS created, I ended up doing cute bralette shoots with a local company and even they had cups that could fit my size. I was a 36G so you can imagine how much I struggled finding a decent bra for years in Asia, let alone VS.
The peak of VS coincides in my mind with the peak of Mac, both were the top of their markets during the early 2010', both became less popular as the more affordable brands, gink Maybelline, walmart clothing, etc stepped up and truly filled the gap with more affordable version of the products that are just as good or better .
I find it funny that VS is rebranding as more exclusive now that the 00s fashion and body trends are coming back
I used to only own Victoria’s Secret bras and underwear. But probably 5 years ago when I entered my 30s I decided to branch out and discovered amazing products from brands like Thirdlove, Tommy John, Neiwai and Natori and I’m not really seeing a reason to give Victoria’s Secret another try. I think this effort is too little too late
The strange thing is that I as a person from Germany always think of the body sprays first when it comes to VS bc it is the only thing we could buy at the German drug store Müller 😅 and everybody was crazy about this and it wasn't cause of the smell but to own a piece of that sexy VS identity🙈
Yes! Here in Brazil, young girls and women were willing to fork out quite a bit of money to get their scents and lip glosses, which had to be imported by someone else that could afford the trip to the us, since we never had stores here.
your hair looks so beautiful like this!
Just came from Mina Le's new video that is also about Victoria's Secret. Love the discussions we're having right now
My mom saw VS as a fun treat for her three girls to enjoy once a year or so. I preferred buying a suit from the men’s department of Dillards once I could afford it, so VS made me feel so gross at the hyper feminine shop. BUT I also saw how excited it made my mtf friend to shop there, but then finding more affordable and just as cute undergarments at freakin’ Walmart and Amazon. Shop keeps also approached us far too often to try to make incentives for bonuses, when we just wanted to browse and not be insured upon being measured in-store. The openness of the shop entrances/windows in malls also make it uncomfortable to a lot of shoppers of all genders/ages imo. I could go on, but those are personal stories from me.
As someone who was highly invested back in 2006, I have a huge answer also, the prices went up and the quality went down.
GOSH SAME TOPIC SAME DAY ON ANOTHER CHANNEL WHAT A BLESS I NEED YOU AND MINA'S COLLAB
in that half of a second that you were on screen at the very start of the video my jaw dropped bc that hAIR IS GORGEOUS
I recently discovered your content and I really appreciate the effort you put into your videos. I am your age, but I feel like you have a significantly bigger knowledge than me on societal issues and other related topics. I find it very inspiring and since I'm working towards being a "better" feminist (sorry for the poor choice of words, I speak french), I am glad I ended up on your channel :)
What a great day off with many of my fav creators releasing AAA content 💕☺
I actually think VS tried too hard to adapt to the market. They tried to make lingerie that was so outwardly trendy that you had to buy something new every year or every 6 months to stay in fashion. But that’s not what people want, not for that price. We wanted to splurge on something classic.
I was never obsessed with Victoria secret because my boobs have never been smaller then a F cup so I was essentially ‘outcast’ from the company and it’s wild to me that they’d not want more sales by being more inclusive.
I Love to see your and Mina Lees Video at the same day, I enjoy 2 different Perspectives from 2 lovely people
I’ve never liked the brand because of how excluded I was from it, even lingerie brands now like savage x fenty exclude me. I’m a 36 J bra size, I would have to travel far for a shop that did my size and they were never affordable or nice and it made me feel awful about myself. I don’t see the point in a lingerie brand when they’re only going to do a handful of sizes.
I know they’ve had sone serious issues, but I miss the days of getting the catalogue in the mail and looking through it with my brother. And I LOVED the fashion shows. They were ART and the made me feel such gloriously creative joy. I also actually really liked their lingerie. And then yeah….
The slayers of the video essay genre posting vids about vs back to back must be some spiritual connection stuff
That hair color is absolutely gorgeous on you 🥺
Gisele already had launched her career a few years prior to VS. Taking a contract was a gamble because the high fashion world might stop using her because she’d be labeled as a “catalog model.”
Your hair colour is perfection 🌻
Sure they rebranded but my cup size is still off their chart 😭
I used to be too (30DD). I just checked now though and they actually have a lot of bras in that size now. They do seem to be expanding the size range which is a good start. I don’t own any VS bras but it’s a step in the right direction that I could find my size now.
BRO I WAS SO CONFUSED WHEN I SAW THIS BESIDE MINA LE’S VIDEO
This hair color looks so good on you!!!!
Omg this hairstyle looks so good on uuuuu ✨✨❤️🔥❤️🔥❤️🔥
how is it possible that you and Mina Le posted the same kind of video with 1 hour between each other??! Kinda Crazy
Girl I see you pop up and I get my serotonin. I really needed this😭
Let's not forget the fact that VS has used prison labor... 😬
your hair looks gorg!
You and Mina Le posting Victoria Secret videos within 24hrs now i got 2 videos to watch :)
ngl I still have VS undies kicking. They're beasts, were constantly on sale for $3, comfy as hell, and I was MEGA annoyed they turned out to be such a shit company 😩
I cant wait for them to come back I love Victoria's secret forever muah
tbh i think seeing plus size models (esp above sz 14) in over the top, elaborate outfits reminiscent of vs in the 90s and 00s would be very empowering to see
like we all love the outfits but now the models do not have to have an eating disorder to participate
I know this is proably a bit the wrong topic for you, but i would love a video from you that focuses on Mens-Fashion or rather what is all wrong with Mens- Fashion.
Ever since i started to buy clothes for myself i always felt excluded from the collection most Brands offered, because i dont like the boring, plain and kinda Macho- Mens Asthetic that almost EVERY Company tries to sell.
And even tho we now Write the Year of our lord 2022 I STill struggle to Find Clothes that make me Feel comfortable in my Skin. Still Most Clothes made for Men are the BARE Minimum, often without many colours, with just Awful designs when it comes to prints and trouseres that are so uncomfortable and boring locking that i wanna die.
And i never see anyone talk about that.
Other countries have more variety in mens fashion. Have you ever watched Kpop? I think it just depends where you look.
I totally agree with all of this. I think something that has interested me during there rebrand is the comments on there Instagram. They are so fatphobic! And racist at times. I think VS tries to catch them and delete them but it is wild the amount of people who are genuinely upset and trolling there feed because they are so used to a certain type of sexy being presented. I find it funny when someone posts “so it’s bad to be skinny and healthy now?” As if the two are always synonymous. As much as I think they need to change more quickly I think easing into it might be due to the reaction of people on Instagram and other social platforms, which granted is cowardly but I can understand from a business/PR standpoint.
JORDAN, THE HAIR IS GORG
I watched the show every year and to be honest while I was certainly impressed at how beautiful the models were I was far more impressed at the craftsmanship of the more impressive pieces/wings. Never inspired me to buy anything VS though 😅
Their bras had such as uncomfortable amount of padding which made my oversize tops look terrible on me.
also important to note that VS products are produced in notoriously unethical environments, their sweatshops are abusive, inhumane and their work force is grossly underpaid. This just makes it even more impossible for me to support them even with a rebrand. especially since they’re a multi billions dollar company that could do so much better in so many ways.
living for the red hair, looks amazing on you