Yeah, the damage from the decades of alcohol and drugs has magnified his Birmingham accent x1000. It also added extra, I don't know what it is, that downturned corner of the mouth speaking they do.
Frank Sinatra had perfect diction when singing. Speaking, he had a strong Hoboken accent. He consciously trained himself to eliminate his accent when singing
I heard the song "Melt With You" by Modern English on the radio the other day and realized it was basically impossible to sing along in my American accent.
That's funny, I've been singin' that song since it came-out in 1982, and never realized I was singin' it like them---IOW, with a British accent (I'm American); but, one is forced to because, for instance, he pronounces "better", "betta"!!!
Elton John is very fond of New Orleans' unique style of Blues, he grew up listening to that and some other american rock-'n'-rollers. That's why he switches to a more southern american in some of his songs. Sometimes, he's also done it only to make it sound better and fit more gently in the song's metrics. For instance, in "Don't Let the Sun Go Down on me" when Elton sings "don't discard me (...)", He does it in a very american accent 'cause he thought it'd fit better.
I remember reading an interview with either John Lennon or Paul McCartney where they said they loved Motown in their early years and attempted to copy that accent. Sting said in an interview back in the 1980's that he had intentionally tried to make a unique accent all his own. As a Canadian I am well aware when Canadian singers sound Canadian, like Gordon Lightfoot, Joni Mitchell or the Barenaked Ladies as opposed to many Canadian Country singers who intentionally copy American accents. Look at the Proclaimers, surely no one could sound more Scottish when they sing compared to Rod Stewart for example. Love your videos!
I was surprised that there was no mention of the “Transatlantic Accent” and it’s place as the “correct” showbiz accent used in the plays and films and musicals of the first half of the 20th century (despite the fact it wasn’t naturally spoken by anybody). I would’ve thought the perception of the correct/classy accent had a major impact on how singing is taught in the west.
it never was truly the "correct" stage accent it was basically left up to the individual actor whether they chose to adopt it or not but by the late forties it was pretty much gone just like the fashion trend of everybody wearing hats all the time. american rock n' roll was basically the foundation of modern music as we know it and that started early 50's so the trend was basically dead by then plus that 'ROCK AROUND THE CLOCK' would've sounded ridiculous in a mid atlantic accent.
Indeed, but htat was more spoken than sung. I suppost musical theatre gets is similar, but it's still very much a standard in the USA, unless it's about specific ethinc or socioeconomic groups.
I saw a clip somewhere of Joachim saying he uses the slightly rolled R when he sings specifically because it's the only way he can make it sound clear. I don't know anything about Swedish, but it's kind of interesting that the open "ah" that English tends toward in singing doesn't work for him.
Swedes don't roll their Rs so much when they speak (more than the English, but less than the Spanish or Slavs), but they sometimes do it when they sing, especially if they take on a more theatrical manner. With Jocke it could be due to the fact that he is half Czech or Polish, don't remember exactly which.
@@PXCharon he also said on stream with Dragonforce that it helped him hide his Scandinavian accent, or at least not make him sound like he's doing a bad American accent.
The one I think about most is Robert Plant from Led Zeppelin, because when he sings softly his accent is very present, but when he goes full throttle it totally disappears. "Over the Hills and Far Away" is an excellent example of that. This is opposed to other British Invasion singers like Roger Daltrey and Mick Jagger. Roger's accent disappears entirely no matter what (listen to Behind Blue Eyes), but Mick ALWAYS has his accent on whether he's singing soft or not (Ruby Tuesday vs Sympathy for the Devil)
Right when I read the words "Pink Floyd" in your comment, my brain played the "By chance, two separate glances meet" line in my head, so definitely a fundamental element in them that I hadn't thought of before.
Saw Paul McCartney asked why The Beatles sounded "American" when singing. He answered that all of their favorite songs and favorite singers were American and they came up originally as a coverband in clubs. Their influences were American, so they developed an American sounding style of singing. .
I love how you've expanded your channel into video essays. You obviously have a passion for education (as expected from a Vocal Coach) as it shows through your presentation and research. I've seen a handful of your reactions (can't watch too many or else I'll spoil myself for my own content) and I've learned a lot about vocals that, as a composer and trumpet player, I wasn't aware of. Your channel continues to be a well of musical information that will seemingly never run dry. Your video essays remind me so much of Braincraft, but for music topics, and I wish you the best as you continue to expand into new ideas.
Damon Albarn: Hold my beer! (*then proceeds to sing Blur's "Country House" in his native East London Cockney accent*). Billy Bragg: You ain't seen nothin' yet!
I absolutely adore how profound and in-depth your videos are! You dig really deep into the very essence of a topic and deliver it with in such a warm and inviting yet structured manner that I can't help but stick my eyes and ears to my screen. Thank you!
I remember when The Beatles first came to the U.S. in '64. Yeah, it was weird. In the movie A Hard Day's Night, when just speaking, they had a thick accent (from my perspective), not to mention a different dialect vocabulary. But when singing, they could pass for Americans.
Some Australian actors when they move to the USA to advance their careers had to adopt an American accent in their daily lives because as one of them said (Anthony LaPaglia) "when I go to the grocery store nobody understood me!". 🤣 🤣 🤣 Makes me wonder how on earth Americans understood Crocodile Dundee......that's hillybilly Aussie accent or maybe they used subtitles in American cinemas. 🤣
@@bluewidow1302 I had wondered that when I first got into them in high school. My mother said often people would hide their accent, but that didn’t make sense to me because they never hid their Liverpool accent when speaking to reporters. They did not seem embarrassed in any way about where they came from. But now that I hear this I think in a way my mother may have been into something. It may have been both the fact they were mimicking the tone that those who inspired them had or it’s because it was easier to sing. I believe that’s how they would sing some of their songs in German for the audience. They sang sounds instead of words. Either way, whenever I hear that accent I know someone’s from Liverpool.
@@ThelSuperlKing As a non native speaker, I find it very interesting how I relate to English accents. I've been taught RP in school. That's probably the hardest to learn for an Italian. Thinking back at the time, many of us were butchering English - or so we thought. Much later I've learned that our pronunciation was closer to some northern accents. I can't hear a mild scottish accent (unless I'm looking for specific markers on purpose), it's more familiar to ma than other accents. In a way, the Australian accent is also familiar. BTW not the thick ones, and anyway it's mostly a matter of words (meaning, it's more a dialect than an accent). OTOH overall I seem to understand an average American better than an average Brit. But I'm very surprised when I see an American having trouble in understanding some northern British accents - I'm not a native speaker, I've never lived there, nor I have any reason to be familar with them, my language is no relative of English, yet I seem to understand those accents better than a native speaker of English. At the same time, some southern American accents are most obscure to me. I love their musicality but I can't understand a word, while it seems not to bother much other Americans (I'm not sure how Brits react to those). Think of McConaughey's accent in the 1st season of True Detectives.
Thank you for your very informative video. As a retired teacher in the USA. I used to tell my students that the learning process never stops. I learned a considerable amount from this video, thank you. By the way. I love your accent. When I hear you speak, I think that is how some of my ancestors might have sounded. You channel is great. Keep up the good work.
The part about vowels doing a large part in defining an accent is spot on. Back in my radio days, the production director at one station I was at figured out that my family originally came to California from Wisconsin based on how I pronounce the word "milk". I use an "e" sound instead of an "i", so it sounds like "melk".
I've ALWAYS wondered.... 😁 But I LOVE it when you can hear the accent! Arctic Monkeys ae great for that! Its just "cooler" when you know you can't sing it naturally without faking it. Cranberries, Sugarcubes, etc, are also good examples where the ACTUAL accent makes it SOOOO much cooler!
I love it when singers retain their accent and make it work with their songs. To name a few; Florence + the Machine, Marina and the Diamonds, Sophie Ellis Bextor, the Cranberries and of course, the Proclaimers. I also feel with Adele it depends on the song. Sometimes you do hear her English accent. In Hometown Glory for instance.
One excellent example of this was the late Jim Nabors, who while speaking had a real thick southern/Appalachian accent. But when he sang it completely disappeared. Excellent presentation, Beth.
Hilltop Hoods are an example of artists defying the norm and using their own accent in their music. Rap in an Australian Accent goes against what’s considered “right” but their sound really works and they don’t try to affect an American accent
Bjork and Aurora don't surrender a syllable to anyone or anything. I think they operate on the same position I take. "I don't have an accent! Everybody else does."
...there is also the case of Syd Barrett, he had so much of his london accent when singing that he managed to rhyme "again" with "Layne" (song Arnold Layne).
I love singers that sing in their real accents, I have a 40 song Spotify playlist dedicated to "accent songs" lol. Glasvegas, Arab Strap and Biffy Clyro are 3 of the Scottish-singing artists on there.
Thank you, Beth. I have always wondered why UK, or even a Dutch band (Golden Earring) sounded so "American." Then again, it seemed odd that a San Fransisco band (Creedence) sounded so US Southern. Or the obviously British voice of The Beatles contrasts with the more blues influenced voice of the Rolling Stones (Mick Jagger, who could do American accents from Southern to New England).
Never really thought about this critically but my favorite band sings in English with an American accent but they are quite, quite Dutch. Beautiful job on this - I love learning from you and never miss one of your postings!
Oh 100% - Loads of Brits thought they were a British band (some still do which is probably part of why Mr Brightside is _still_ on the charts here to this day) - a good example is the un-American way he sings 'but it's just the PRICE I PAY' in Mr Brightside's chorus
The "rhotic r" thing is huge. Such a difference between 6:29 and 6:33. Can you imagine Steve Perry singing "she took the midnight train goin' anywherrrrre" (instead of the iconic "anywheyah")? Or, in 'Open Arms', singing "open arrrrms" (instead of the iconic "open ahmms"), or "...wanting you nearrrrr" (instead of "wanting you nea-ahh")? It'd be _comical._ He'd sound like Glenn Frey of the Eagles, or an outright "bro country" singer. 😆 Speaking of Glenn Frey, he really did lean in on that rhotic r, didn't he! A line from "Lyin' Eyes' comes to mind: "...she wonderrrrrs how it everrrrrr got this crazy". 😄
Thank you for the the explanation. As a child I noticed the accents disappearing while listening to music with my dad who was a bid fan of the British invasion of the seventies and eighties, and I always wondered why that happened.
Ray Davies (The Kinks) doesn't change accents. He could sing "Great Balls of Fire" on the Fourth of July in a Memphis juke joint, and he'd still sound British.
Missy Higgins is well known for singing pop in an Australian accent. And I’m sure most western millennials will remember Sophie Ellis Bextor’s Murder on the Dancefloor (man that song was a banger), in her native English accent. Those are the two that first popped into my mind.
So I heard it was cause of he influence of popular American music. I am 60 years old, raised in South Texas, and I could only sound British when singing “Enerie” the 8th by the Herman’s Hermits.
This video was ace. I've been told when I sing (metal/rock music) I sound English/British, yet when I talk between songs I'm obviously Irish. When asked I once told someone it was down to singing along with 80s British metal bands. I wish I sounded more like one of my personal heroes Phil Lynott, his soft Dublin accent comes through in his songs so well.
I have always wondered if people like Alex Turner (Arctic Monkeys) started singing with a less natural accent and forced themselves back to their native speaking accent as a choice, or if it was natural for them to sing in their speech accent (when for others it seems natural to sing in a different accent to the one they speak with)...
Alex Turner probably writes the song with his accent in mind, consider Tom Jones cover of "I bet that you look good on the dance floor" using his mid-Atlantic voice it sounds a bit flatter because he isn't using the yorkshire accent to pull the vowel sounds up and down like Alex does.
@@lucie4185 Yeah I think you're probably right. Im sure it was something that helped them standout from all the other small bands doing their thing with small club/bar gigs and on social media.
I think the reason people sing happy birthday and twinkle twinkle little star in their own accent is because we “talk-sing” those songs specifically to pronounce everything clearly for children and so anyone can clearly understand the words and anyone can sing it regardless of singing ability
Very interesting! Excellent video! This is something I’ve often wondered about. I think you can even take this further. Some people when they travel abroad to a country where they don’t know the language start imitating the sounds of that language when speaking their own. It can happen without thinking. I think that gets back to the point re seeking of acceptance and understanding from others. Oh, and you look absolutely amazing as usual! (like a Scottish Ann Margret). So irresistibly cute, so positive and upbeat, and soooo smart. A winning combination!
As an American I was always shocked to find out a singer was from the UK because there were no signs vocally that would indicate that they were British.. except for Syd Barrett, he had a very strong British accent in his singing voice..
I remember hearing Shirley Manson's accent for the first time. That is quite a strong Scottish accent, and yet totally non-existent in her singing. Gorgeous voice in either situation though.
Most of my examples for singers who almost exclusively sing in their native accent you used, but I would also add Sophie Ellis-Bextor. She almost never loses her well spoken southern English accent when she sings, and it's one of the reasons I enjoy her voice so much. Quite the contrast to Lily Allen another singer I like who is also from South England but has a thick cockney accent that she sings in.
Look up the danish musician Eddie Skoller singing his song “what did you learn in school today” . Each verse has a different accent with a National twist. Each of verses are flavored by the native language from each of the nationalities he is portraying.
I've always wondered and regret not asking my vocal teacher Dr. Myra Brand when I was in college. Thank you for explaining this phenomenon so well! Wish I'd kept up singing as I did in church when was younger or later in karaoke. Thanks again!
So I came across this channel while looking for Periphery songs (saw your reaction video on "Garden In The Bones"). I can safely say I didn't think I'd be spending my Friday night watching UA-cam videos from a vocal coach, but I'm glad I clicked on your Periphery video and started looking! I'll definitely start following this channel, as I don't think I've ever actually sat down and thought about the actual "mechanics" of how and why these sounds come out of my mouth. Thanks for the great content, I hope your business is going well!
The best example for singing style contradicting expectations might be Rammstein. Even for german measures their style has a very harsh and opera-like tone used in very rhythmic rock/metal music, and I think this is why they are loved internationally: it simply fits well into this american derived style of music and gives a new layer of heavyness that others could never achieve without this tone. To clear my background, I am not even a big fan of them, but I respect them for their unique style.
The Unthanks - folk singers from the very North of England (where I'm from!) - utilise their strong Northumbrian accents, making their music instantly recognisable as theirs. I admire their pride in the local dialect, and try to honour it in my singing too, though to a less noticeable extent than The Unthanks.
The most obvious answer would be that the overwhelming majority of popular forms of music were created in America. Musical artists usually closely emulate what they hear on records that infuence them. Most musical acts have sought fame and fortune in America as it is the largest consumer of popular music in terms of album sales and concert revenue. So therefore they attempt to appeal to the largest number of popular music consumers by sounding more like them.
I agree. All of the elements you described definitely were different when we'd do songs in other languages in college choir, like the Sephardic Spanish of Por Que Llorax Blanca Niña.
Well done, this was very interesting. The one additional accent thing that take away from this is that your pronunciation of *assume* does to the *s* what I had thought was mostly Australian.
There are probably some parallels between my accent and Australian accents. After all I’m from Perth, Scotland and Australia was colonised by enough Perth people to make their own :)
Harriet Wheeler of the Sundays, has a Stereotypically British accent when she sings, but if you have ever seen her interviewed, her Berkshire accent is so heavy, it's a bit difficult to understand her at times. She has one of the most beautiful voices in history, and I list them among the top groups that I wish would come back.
It's funny, in the US we often talk about how folks sound more indistinctly British when they sing, likely due in no small part to rounder vowels and dropping the rhotic R.
Kate Bush, who never loses her accent when she sings, once brought this up in an interview. She seemed a bit disappointed that Robert Plant and Elton John "sounded American" when they sang, whereas she loved that you could still hear Bryan Ferry's accent. You're right about this being a universal thing regardless of language. As a MexAm who grew up with Spanish-speaking parents, I can definitely hear more than a bit of Mon Laferte's Chilean accent when she sings, although not nearly as much as when she speaks. Mexican Spanish is definitely the drawl of the Latin American world; we sound super laid-back and slowed down next to Spanish speakers from the other Latin American nations.
Dolores O'Riordan in the cranberries always stood out as keeping an accent while singing. Linger was the most obvious to me. Also current artists is Hozier, the song shrike is thick with his accent, maybe because he's a little closer to the folk music of his homeland.
Unless you're Lewis Capaldi. I knew right away he was Scottish from the very first time I heard him sing. I couldn't tell you exactly why. My husband and I were driving up the north Wales coast and one of his songs came on. I'd never heard him sing before and I told my husband, he's a Scot! My hubby was dubious and we placed bets. I won. :D
My God, that went on! In fact, I only got a bit into it! The answer to the question is simple ( and it's nothing to so with vowel sounds etc or the style of music being performed ) Consciously or - usually - unconsciously - British/Irish singers ape the accents of American singers. On a conscious level with have Paul McCartney trying to sound like Little Richard on various Beatle recordings. On an unconscious level. well, that happens everywhere. Oh yes, another reference to The Beatles. When they first arrived in the States in 1964, and gave huge press conferences, the press were struck by the huge difference in their spoken Liverpudlian accents and the American accents in which they sang, and they were asked why they sang that way. John replied, "because it sells better". I have a lot more to say - with lots of examples - to illustrate my thoughts on the matter, but does anybody have anything to say about what I've said so far?
A lot of punk rock singers sound British, even American punk rock has a British accent texture to it. A lot of Australian and Canadian Country singers sound like they're from the American Southlands. Most people from Australia and England find the various accents of the American Southlands to be more accessible than, for instance, New England or New York accents.
Once, I was at an friend's place with a few people. I was the only francophone and everyone else spoke Canadian English (they were Acadians, from New-Brunswick). Needless to say everyone kinda made fun of my accent when speaking. We were around a bonfire in his backyard and I pulled my guitar out and started to play. I barely started singing before my friend asked me to stop. He told the others that he thought my accent was completely gone while singing and I started the song over and at the end the others agreed. I always thought it was curious and this video made me remember this moment and now I understand why people kinda lose their accents when singing.
I live in Tahiti island when we speak french we roll the r . Tahiti is french colony thats why we speak french We also speak tahitian it s our mother tongue
Excellent summary. Yes, pretty little in pop songs, even by Brits, will be preedy liddle. On the other hand, in broadway, even sung by americans it will be "i feel pretty and witty and gay" with all the ts pronounced.
Dolores O'Riordan (Cranberries) is a perfect example of singing in a natural accent. Ronnie Van Zandt (Lynyrd Skynyrd) is a perfect example of someone using an intentional reverse affectation, he was aware of the generalization of accent in singing and intentionally retained a southern singing accent, sometimes overdoing it stylistically.
An interesting example of a singer who "created" his sound is Nat King Cole, Now, probably more than any other singer, it is obvious that Nat is taking great care to annunciate his words, and one of the reasons for is that he had middle-class aspirations. Nat was from a working-class background but fell in love with a middle-class woman, and made a big effort to "talk better" i.e. distance himself from his working -class accent and this carried over into his singing. I'm also very conscious of the fact that Sinatra is taking great care with his "vowel" sounds. Now, for me, I like the more natural approach. For example, when you listen to Ray Charles. he is clearly not thinking of "the right" vowel sound. He just sings.
Ozzy is the biggest mystery. I don't know what language he's using, when speaking. When he's singing, perfect English.
LOL Right?!
Ozzy speaks Ozzy.Its a mix of British,alcohol,pills and dain bramage.
Birmingham, innit.
Yeah, the damage from the decades of alcohol and drugs has magnified his Birmingham accent x1000. It also added extra, I don't know what it is, that downturned corner of the mouth speaking they do.
If you listen to him speaking for s while, you get used to it
I hear the accents coming through with Dolores O'Riordan and Colin James Hay.
Yes - true
Oh that sweet Irish brogue of Dolores O’Riordan. My jaw dropped and my heart leapt upon hearing “Linger” for the first time. She’s missed.
Totally. I was about to write Dolores! She was so unique! 💓
Frank Sinatra had perfect diction when singing. Speaking, he had a strong Hoboken accent. He consciously trained himself to eliminate his accent when singing
I heard the song "Melt With You" by Modern English on the radio the other day and realized it was basically impossible to sing along in my American accent.
If I sing it in my natural voice, it sounds like it should be a country song, lol.
Love this song 🙏
yesss ha ha
I can sing it; I just can't make it sound like them.
That's funny, I've been singin' that song since it came-out in 1982, and never realized I was singin' it like them---IOW, with a British accent (I'm American); but, one is forced to because, for instance, he pronounces "better", "betta"!!!
Elton John is very fond of New Orleans' unique style of Blues, he grew up listening to that and some other american rock-'n'-rollers. That's why he switches to a more southern american in some of his songs.
Sometimes, he's also done it only to make it sound better and fit more gently in the song's metrics. For instance, in "Don't Let the Sun Go Down on me" when Elton sings "don't discard me (...)", He does it in a very american accent 'cause he thought it'd fit better.
I remember reading an interview with either John Lennon or Paul McCartney where they said they loved Motown in their early years and attempted to copy that accent. Sting said in an interview back in the 1980's that he had intentionally tried to make a unique accent all his own. As a Canadian I am well aware when Canadian singers sound Canadian, like Gordon Lightfoot, Joni Mitchell or the Barenaked Ladies as opposed to many Canadian Country singers who intentionally copy American accents. Look at the Proclaimers, surely no one could sound more Scottish when they sing compared to Rod Stewart for example. Love your videos!
Rod Stewart was born and grew up in London. His father was Scottish but his mother was a Londoner. I don't think he ever lived in Scotland.
I was surprised that there was no mention of the “Transatlantic Accent” and it’s place as the “correct” showbiz accent used in the plays and films and musicals of the first half of the 20th century (despite the fact it wasn’t naturally spoken by anybody). I would’ve thought the perception of the correct/classy accent had a major impact on how singing is taught in the west.
it never was truly the "correct" stage accent it was basically left up to the individual actor whether they chose to adopt it or not but by the late forties it was pretty much gone just like the fashion trend of everybody wearing hats all the time. american rock n' roll was basically the foundation of modern music as we know it and that started early 50's so the trend was basically dead by then plus that 'ROCK AROUND THE CLOCK' would've sounded ridiculous in a mid atlantic accent.
Indeed, but htat was more spoken than sung. I suppost musical theatre gets is similar, but it's still very much a standard in the USA, unless it's about specific ethinc or socioeconomic groups.
Great comment : very germane
Sabaton's Joakim Brodén definitely adds some Swedish-ness to his hinging accent.
I saw a clip somewhere of Joachim saying he uses the slightly rolled R when he sings specifically because it's the only way he can make it sound clear.
I don't know anything about Swedish, but it's kind of interesting that the open "ah" that English tends toward in singing doesn't work for him.
'byooried' 😅
Swedes don't roll their Rs so much when they speak (more than the English, but less than the Spanish or Slavs), but they sometimes do it when they sing, especially if they take on a more theatrical manner.
With Jocke it could be due to the fact that he is half Czech or Polish, don't remember exactly which.
@@PXCharon he also said on stream with Dragonforce that it helped him hide his Scandinavian accent, or at least not make him sound like he's doing a bad American accent.
he kinda sings bury as byoury
The one I think about most is Robert Plant from Led Zeppelin, because when he sings softly his accent is very present, but when he goes full throttle it totally disappears. "Over the Hills and Far Away" is an excellent example of that. This is opposed to other British Invasion singers like Roger Daltrey and Mick Jagger. Roger's accent disappears entirely no matter what (listen to Behind Blue Eyes), but Mick ALWAYS has his accent on whether he's singing soft or not (Ruby Tuesday vs Sympathy for the Devil)
I've always enjoyed to that about Pink Floyd exactly because they stick to their original accent
I just made the same basic comment.
Yeah ! haha
Right when I read the words "Pink Floyd" in your comment, my brain played the "By chance, two separate glances meet" line in my head, so definitely a fundamental element in them that I hadn't thought of before.
Saw Paul McCartney asked why The Beatles sounded "American" when singing. He answered that all of their favorite songs and favorite singers were American and they came up originally as a coverband in clubs. Their influences were American, so they developed an American sounding style of singing.
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I love how you've expanded your channel into video essays. You obviously have a passion for education (as expected from a Vocal Coach) as it shows through your presentation and research. I've seen a handful of your reactions (can't watch too many or else I'll spoil myself for my own content) and I've learned a lot about vocals that, as a composer and trumpet player, I wasn't aware of. Your channel continues to be a well of musical information that will seemingly never run dry. Your video essays remind me so much of Braincraft, but for music topics, and I wish you the best as you continue to expand into new ideas.
As an accent nerd, I find this video delightful to watch 😊❤ Thank you so much for this deep dive!
You're so welcome!
Damon Albarn: Hold my beer! (*then proceeds to sing Blur's "Country House" in his native East London Cockney accent*).
Billy Bragg: You ain't seen nothin' yet!
The very first time I had the pleasure of hearing Pink Floyd there was no doubt of where they were from. Shine On !
I absolutely adore how profound and in-depth your videos are! You dig really deep into the very essence of a topic and deliver it with in such a warm and inviting yet structured manner that I can't help but stick my eyes and ears to my screen. Thank you!
I am enjoying these videos with scientific and societal aspects of music/sound so much! Keep up the great work, Beth! Cheers from Brazil!
"Think Scottish folk" shows a brief clip of Julie Fowlis. So I'm holding out hope for a vocal coach reacts to Julie Fowlis video some day.
That would be amazing! She’s one of my favourite vocalists.
I remember when The Beatles first came to the U.S. in '64. Yeah, it was weird. In the movie A Hard Day's Night, when just speaking, they had a thick accent (from my perspective), not to mention a different dialect vocabulary. But when singing, they could pass for Americans.
Some Australian actors when they move to the USA to advance their careers had to adopt an American accent in their daily lives because as one of them said (Anthony LaPaglia) "when I go to the grocery store nobody understood me!". 🤣 🤣 🤣 Makes me wonder how on earth Americans understood Crocodile Dundee......that's hillybilly Aussie accent or maybe they used subtitles in American cinemas. 🤣
Me took Doug !
@@bluewidow1302 I had wondered that when I first got into them in high school. My mother said often people would hide their accent, but that didn’t make sense to me because they never hid their Liverpool accent when speaking to reporters. They did not seem embarrassed in any way about where they came from. But now that I hear this I think in a way my mother may have been into something. It may have been both the fact they were mimicking the tone that those who inspired them had or it’s because it was easier to sing. I believe that’s how they would sing some of their songs in German for the audience. They sang sounds instead of words. Either way, whenever I hear that accent I know someone’s from Liverpool.
Mick Jagger too - perfect American when singing and lousy English estuary when talking.
@@ThelSuperlKing As a non native speaker, I find it very interesting how I relate to English accents. I've been taught RP in school. That's probably the hardest to learn for an Italian. Thinking back at the time, many of us were butchering English - or so we thought. Much later I've learned that our pronunciation was closer to some northern accents. I can't hear a mild scottish accent (unless I'm looking for specific markers on purpose), it's more familiar to ma than other accents. In a way, the Australian accent is also familiar. BTW not the thick ones, and anyway it's mostly a matter of words (meaning, it's more a dialect than an accent). OTOH overall I seem to understand an average American better than an average Brit.
But I'm very surprised when I see an American having trouble in understanding some northern British accents - I'm not a native speaker, I've never lived there, nor I have any reason to be familar with them, my language is no relative of English, yet I seem to understand those accents better than a native speaker of English.
At the same time, some southern American accents are most obscure to me. I love their musicality but I can't understand a word, while it seems not to bother much other Americans (I'm not sure how Brits react to those). Think of McConaughey's accent in the 1st season of True Detectives.
The Beatles were a Prime example in the 60's
Thank you for your very informative video. As a retired teacher in the USA. I used to tell my students that the learning process never stops. I learned a considerable amount from this video, thank you. By the way. I love your accent. When I hear you speak, I think that is how some of my ancestors might have sounded. You channel is great. Keep up the good work.
Thanks John!
Can't wait to hear this. You can still hear a bit of Tatiana's accent when she sings her cleans, but she loses it in her growls/screams. :-)
The part about vowels doing a large part in defining an accent is spot on. Back in my radio days, the production director at one station I was at figured out that my family originally came to California from Wisconsin based on how I pronounce the word "milk". I use an "e" sound instead of an "i", so it sounds like "melk".
Outstanding video Beth. I could listen to you talk about this topic for hours. Very interesting.
Thank you! I have the full chat with Pamela coming out in podcast form soon!
I've ALWAYS wondered.... 😁
But I LOVE it when you can hear the accent! Arctic Monkeys ae great for that! Its just "cooler" when you know you can't sing it naturally without faking it. Cranberries, Sugarcubes, etc, are also good examples where the ACTUAL accent makes it SOOOO much cooler!
I love it when singers retain their accent and make it work with their songs. To name a few; Florence + the Machine, Marina and the Diamonds, Sophie Ellis Bextor, the Cranberries and of course, the Proclaimers. I also feel with Adele it depends on the song. Sometimes you do hear her English accent. In Hometown Glory for instance.
A friend once told me all British singers sounded American when they sang.
So I played Billy Bragg for him.
Bit of The Wurzels will set him right.
One excellent example of this was the late Jim Nabors, who while speaking had a real thick southern/Appalachian accent. But when he sang it completely disappeared. Excellent presentation, Beth.
Thanks Bill!
Hilltop Hoods are an example of artists defying the norm and using their own accent in their music. Rap in an Australian Accent goes against what’s considered “right” but their sound really works and they don’t try to affect an American accent
Bjork and Aurora don't surrender a syllable to anyone or anything. I think they operate on the same position I take. "I don't have an accent! Everybody else does."
I've never thought about "Opera" as an accent before, but it makes so much sense.
Also explains for me my preference for Italian over German opera. Mind opened.
"I'd like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony......"
Coke advert :)
...there is also the case of Syd Barrett, he had so much of his london accent when singing that he managed to rhyme "again" with "Layne" (song Arnold Layne).
Yes... very interesting
Syd was born and grew up in Cambridge and only came to live London in 1964 and was part of Pink Floyd from 1965 to 1968.
I love singers that sing in their real accents, I have a 40 song Spotify playlist dedicated to "accent songs" lol. Glasvegas, Arab Strap and Biffy Clyro are 3 of the Scottish-singing artists on there.
god drop the link
Thank you for a fantastic exploration of this phenomenon.
Thank you, Beth. I have always wondered why UK, or even a Dutch band (Golden Earring) sounded so "American." Then again, it seemed odd that a San Fransisco band (Creedence) sounded so US Southern. Or the obviously British voice of The Beatles contrasts with the more blues influenced voice of the Rolling Stones (Mick Jagger, who could do American accents from Southern to New England).
That was super interesting! Thanks, Beth!
You are so welcome!
Never really thought about this critically but my favorite band sings in English with an American accent but they are quite, quite Dutch. Beautiful job on this - I love learning from you and never miss one of your postings!
Thank you for watching!
I think Brandon Flowers from The Killers sang with a British accent on at least their first album Hot Fuss, and he's from Las Vegas.
Oh 100% - Loads of Brits thought they were a British band (some still do which is probably part of why Mr Brightside is _still_ on the charts here to this day) - a good example is the un-American way he sings 'but it's just the PRICE I PAY' in Mr Brightside's chorus
Thank you for clearing this up I have always wondered this!
The "rhotic r" thing is huge. Such a difference between 6:29 and 6:33. Can you imagine Steve Perry singing "she took the midnight train goin' anywherrrrre" (instead of the iconic "anywheyah")? Or, in 'Open Arms', singing "open arrrrms" (instead of the iconic "open ahmms"), or "...wanting you nearrrrr" (instead of "wanting you nea-ahh")? It'd be _comical._ He'd sound like Glenn Frey of the Eagles, or an outright "bro country" singer. 😆 Speaking of Glenn Frey, he really did lean in on that rhotic r, didn't he! A line from "Lyin' Eyes' comes to mind: "...she wonderrrrrs how it everrrrrr got this crazy". 😄
I love these educational videos I've always wanted to know this. Thank you! :D
You're so welcome!
Thank you for the the explanation. As a child I noticed the accents disappearing while listening to music with my dad who was a bid fan of the British invasion of the seventies and eighties, and I always wondered why that happened.
Ray Davies (The Kinks) doesn't change accents. He could sing "Great Balls of Fire" on the Fourth of July in a Memphis juke joint, and he'd still sound British.
Fish of Marillion sang with his native accent which deffo gives the band more character imho!
The Proclaimers sound Scottish even when they sing an American song....I know, I know haven't seen the video yet....but just saying 😉
🙈
Have you heard their song "Throw the R Away?" It's basically about how they're proud to sing with a Scottish accent.
@@HollowGolem I like King of the Road....an American song with a Scottish flare.
😂😂😂
Missy Higgins is well known for singing pop in an Australian accent. And I’m sure most western millennials will remember Sophie Ellis Bextor’s Murder on the Dancefloor (man that song was a banger), in her native English accent. Those are the two that first popped into my mind.
So I heard it was cause of he influence of popular American music. I am 60 years old, raised in South Texas, and I could only sound British when singing “Enerie” the 8th by the Herman’s Hermits.
this is a really interesting video and explained really well. thank you for sharing.
This video was ace.
I've been told when I sing (metal/rock music) I sound English/British, yet when I talk between songs I'm obviously Irish. When asked I once told someone it was down to singing along with 80s British metal bands.
I wish I sounded more like one of my personal heroes Phil Lynott, his soft Dublin accent comes through in his songs so well.
I have always wondered if people like Alex Turner (Arctic Monkeys) started singing with a less natural accent and forced themselves back to their native speaking accent as a choice, or if it was natural for them to sing in their speech accent (when for others it seems natural to sing in a different accent to the one they speak with)...
I think that is really personal. A lot of it is subconscious. :)
Alex Turner probably writes the song with his accent in mind, consider Tom Jones cover of "I bet that you look good on the dance floor" using his mid-Atlantic voice it sounds a bit flatter because he isn't using the yorkshire accent to pull the vowel sounds up and down like Alex does.
@@lucie4185 Yeah I think you're probably right. Im sure it was something that helped them standout from all the other small bands doing their thing with small club/bar gigs and on social media.
Kudos to Beth for a fascinating, incisive lecture on a subject that always intrigued me.
I think the reason people sing happy birthday and twinkle twinkle little star in their own accent is because we “talk-sing” those songs specifically to pronounce everything clearly for children and so anyone can clearly understand the words and anyone can sing it regardless of singing ability
Many thanks Beth this is really helpful as my vocal coach has said I am too heavy on the Essex accent
What a fantastic episode! I've always wondered about this. Thanks, Beth!
You're so welcome!
Very interesting! Excellent video! This is something I’ve often wondered about. I think you can even take this further. Some people when they travel abroad to a country where they don’t know the language start imitating the sounds of that language when speaking their own. It can happen without thinking. I think that gets back to the point re seeking of acceptance and understanding from others.
Oh, and you look absolutely amazing as usual! (like a Scottish Ann Margret). So irresistibly cute, so positive and upbeat, and soooo smart. A winning combination!
As an American I was always shocked to find out a singer was from the UK because there were no signs vocally that would indicate that they were British.. except for Syd Barrett, he had a very strong British accent in his singing voice..
I remember hearing Shirley Manson's accent for the first time. That is quite a strong Scottish accent, and yet totally non-existent in her singing. Gorgeous voice in either situation though.
Most of my examples for singers who almost exclusively sing in their native accent you used, but I would also add Sophie Ellis-Bextor. She almost never loses her well spoken southern English accent when she sings, and it's one of the reasons I enjoy her voice so much. Quite the contrast to Lily Allen another singer I like who is also from South England but has a thick cockney accent that she sings in.
She's so pretty 🦋
Look up the danish musician Eddie Skoller singing his song “what did you learn in school today” . Each verse has a different accent with a National twist. Each of verses are flavored by the native language from each of the nationalities he is portraying.
I've always wondered and regret not asking my vocal teacher Dr. Myra Brand when I was in college. Thank you for explaining this phenomenon so well! Wish I'd kept up singing as I did in church when was younger or later in karaoke. Thanks again!
Awesome video! 👍
So I came across this channel while looking for Periphery songs (saw your reaction video on "Garden In The Bones"). I can safely say I didn't think I'd be spending my Friday night watching UA-cam videos from a vocal coach, but I'm glad I clicked on your Periphery video and started looking!
I'll definitely start following this channel, as I don't think I've ever actually sat down and thought about the actual "mechanics" of how and why these sounds come out of my mouth.
Thanks for the great content, I hope your business is going well!
Thanks for watching!
The best example for singing style contradicting expectations might be Rammstein. Even for german measures their style has a very harsh and opera-like tone used in very rhythmic rock/metal music, and I think this is why they are loved internationally: it simply fits well into this american derived style of music and gives a new layer of heavyness that others could never achieve without this tone.
To clear my background, I am not even a big fan of them, but I respect them for their unique style.
The Unthanks - folk singers from the very North of England (where I'm from!) - utilise their strong Northumbrian accents, making their music instantly recognisable as theirs. I admire their pride in the local dialect, and try to honour it in my singing too, though to a less noticeable extent than The Unthanks.
The most obvious answer would be that the overwhelming majority of popular forms of music were created in America. Musical artists usually closely emulate what they hear on records that infuence them. Most musical acts have sought fame and fortune in America as it is the largest consumer of popular music in terms of album sales and concert revenue. So therefore they attempt to appeal to the largest number of popular music consumers by sounding more like them.
I think it's less about people doing it purposefully but rather the unconscious influence of American music culture.
I agree. All of the elements you described definitely were different when we'd do songs in other languages in college choir, like the Sephardic Spanish of Por Que Llorax Blanca Niña.
Heard an Amy Macdonald song randomly. Accent caught my attention. Now I have all her music on my phone.
Herman's Hermits stood out and drew attention by maintaining their British accents.
Morrissey and The Smiths are another exception.
You reminded me of Paul McCartney singing in a southern in Rocky Racoon.
I'm enjoying this newer "high effort" content shift you've done. I hope it pays off for you.
'Desperate Cry' is an excellent metal song by Sepultura (Brazil)
Well done, this was very interesting.
The one additional accent thing that take away from this is that your pronunciation of *assume* does to the *s* what I had thought was mostly Australian.
There are probably some parallels between my accent and Australian accents. After all I’m from Perth, Scotland and Australia was colonised by enough Perth people to make their own :)
Shirley Manson from Garbage and Sharleen Spiteri from Texas: two Scottisch singers with a heavy accent but incredible clean when singing.
Try Rhiannon Gibbons “Wayfaring Stranger”. African-American-Scots-Irish-Southern US. The accent is all over the place. It works.
This was the question bumbed into my mind in the early morning of a weekend 🤣
Harriet Wheeler of the Sundays, has a Stereotypically British accent when she sings, but if you have ever seen her interviewed, her Berkshire accent is so heavy, it's a bit difficult to understand her at times. She has one of the most beautiful voices in history, and I list them among the top groups that I wish would come back.
if i have a reference for how the words should sound,, i dont lose accent. most of the time.
I think about Alanis. Her singing is very unique for me.
It's funny, in the US we often talk about how folks sound more indistinctly British when they sing, likely due in no small part to rounder vowels and dropping the rhotic R.
I'm asking myself the same thing since 25 years
Kate Bush, who never loses her accent when she sings, once brought this up in an interview. She seemed a bit disappointed that Robert Plant and Elton John "sounded American" when they sang, whereas she loved that you could still hear Bryan Ferry's accent.
You're right about this being a universal thing regardless of language. As a MexAm who grew up with Spanish-speaking parents, I can definitely hear more than a bit of Mon Laferte's Chilean accent when she sings, although not nearly as much as when she speaks. Mexican Spanish is definitely the drawl of the Latin American world; we sound super laid-back and slowed down next to Spanish speakers from the other Latin American nations.
Dolores O'Riordan in the cranberries always stood out as keeping an accent while singing. Linger was the most obvious to me. Also current artists is Hozier, the song shrike is thick with his accent, maybe because he's a little closer to the folk music of his homeland.
Unless you're Lewis Capaldi. I knew right away he was Scottish from the very first time I heard him sing. I couldn't tell you exactly why. My husband and I were driving up the north Wales coast and one of his songs came on. I'd never heard him sing before and I told my husband, he's a Scot! My hubby was dubious and we placed bets.
I won. :D
Idlewild and Twilight Sad are great at holding onto their Scottish accents
My God, that went on! In fact, I only got a bit into it! The answer to the question is simple ( and it's nothing to so with vowel sounds etc or the style of music being performed ) Consciously or - usually - unconsciously - British/Irish singers ape the accents of American singers. On a conscious level with have Paul McCartney trying to sound like Little Richard on various Beatle recordings. On an unconscious level. well, that happens everywhere. Oh yes, another reference to The Beatles. When they first arrived in the States in 1964, and gave huge press conferences, the press were struck by the huge difference in their spoken Liverpudlian accents and the American accents in which they sang, and they were asked why they sang that way. John replied, "because it sells better". I have a lot more to say - with lots of examples - to illustrate my thoughts on the matter, but does anybody have anything to say about what I've said so far?
Beth is gorgeous!
I've always wondered this! So glad I found this video. Absolutely fascinating.
A lot of punk rock singers sound British, even American punk rock has a British accent texture to it. A lot of Australian and Canadian Country singers sound like they're from the American Southlands. Most people from Australia and England find the various accents of the American Southlands to be more accessible than, for instance, New England or New York accents.
Cerys Matthews really holds her accent even when singing a classic American song like "baby it's cold outside".
American from Mississippi girlfriend from Minnesota. She says i make every song i sing sound country. That my accent gets more not less while singing
Once, I was at an friend's place with a few people. I was the only francophone and everyone else spoke Canadian English (they were Acadians, from New-Brunswick). Needless to say everyone kinda made fun of my accent when speaking. We were around a bonfire in his backyard and I pulled my guitar out and started to play. I barely started singing before my friend asked me to stop. He told the others that he thought my accent was completely gone while singing and I started the song over and at the end the others agreed.
I always thought it was curious and this video made me remember this moment and now I understand why people kinda lose their accents when singing.
I live in Tahiti island when we speak french we roll the r . Tahiti is french colony thats why we speak french
We also speak tahitian it s our mother tongue
Very interesting. Thank you very much !
You are welcome!
Excellent summary. Yes, pretty little in pop songs, even by Brits, will be preedy liddle. On the other hand, in broadway, even sung by americans it will be "i feel pretty and witty and gay" with all the ts pronounced.
Maaan, I'd like to hear growling with scottish accent ...
On a serious note - really love this video format.
Thank you!
I wish this had a voice note feature, I want try!
Dolores O'Riordan (Cranberries) is a perfect example of singing in a natural accent.
Ronnie Van Zandt (Lynyrd Skynyrd) is a perfect example of someone using an intentional reverse affectation, he was aware of the generalization of accent in singing and intentionally retained a southern singing accent, sometimes overdoing it stylistically.
An interesting example of a singer who "created" his sound is Nat King Cole, Now, probably more than any other singer, it is obvious that Nat is taking great care to annunciate his words, and one of the reasons for is that he had middle-class aspirations. Nat was from a working-class background but fell in love with a middle-class woman, and made a big effort to "talk better" i.e. distance himself from his working -class accent and this carried over into his singing. I'm also very conscious of the fact that Sinatra is taking great care with his "vowel" sounds. Now, for me, I like the more natural approach. For example, when you listen to Ray Charles. he is clearly not thinking of "the right" vowel sound. He just sings.