e Gull electric ultralight aircraft, 40 HP for less $ than a comparably powered gas engine.
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- Опубліковано 7 гру 2014
- www.sportaviationmagazine.com - Dan Johnson talks to Mark Beierle of Thundergull Aircraft about his new e Gull single seat ultralight aircraft. Power is supplied via a battery and electric motor. The unit is quite, virtually vibration free, and can be operated for just over $1.00 per hour!
Mark Bierle is one of the most talented designers I have ever met. The modest, soft-spoken Californian makes a line of the best-flying and genuinely light aircraft in the USA.
I've written about electric projects: Electra Flyer/others and Sonex. The newest entry involves one of my all-time favorite airplanes, the Earthstar Aircraft Gull 2000. This ultra-light single seater flies efficiently on a very small wing, so when I spoke to Mark Beierle recently I got excited when he told me he's working on the eGull.
Mark is a remarkably talented and creative designer; his airframe could be a great platform for such a powerplant. While eGull is a single seater, two seaters will follow early development. Meanwhile, I look forward to a flight in an electric powered Gull 2000.
He's also worked in powerplant design and has now turned his agile mind toward electric power. We talk with him at some length about the advantages of electric-powered light aircraft and his latest introduction into the electric ultralight aircraft field.
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www.sportaviationmagazine.com - e Gull electric powered ultralight aircraft, over 40 HP for less money than a comparably powered gas engine.
• e Gull electric ultral... - Спорт
And the batteries are getting better and better all the time :)
I love it that Mark talks about dreams of flying. We’ve all had those dreams.
I met mark last july. He is a VERY sweet guy and his airplane is amazing.
Very good questions and good answers too. Thanks!
I'm excited by the idea of a thundergull,that pins you in the seat,while accelerating.
7:18 The wheel spins in the opposite direction, more wind at the top of the wheel.
What an awesome Airplane and platform. We are living ina very unique Flying Opportunity time and we had better enjoy it while we can.
What about top covering the wing with the newer light weight paper thin solar panels? This could recharge the battery while flying possible allowing a smaller, lighter battery but at the same time extending the range.
Perfect range extender for an ultralight. Someone will put solar panels on the wings weventually.
2021 now !!!! What happened to this amazing idea ?
In road-going vehicles there is actually a significant difference between the performance of electric motors and piston engines of the same power rating, because the mean power output of an electric motor is typically greater than that of a piston engine. The operating envelope of a motor or engine that is installed on an aircraft is so narrow that the peak output of the powerplant is really all that matters, so there's no real difference between the performance of motors and engines of the same power rating.
I can't imagine why there are not more electric powered ultra lights out there. With the exception of a battery fire, the electric motor is about a billion times more reliable than a four stroke and two billion more than a 2 stroke.
The batteries cost too much cos of the pathetic amount of recharges available. Cost is just as much as any other form of power, so there is no use changing unless it's just for quietness.
Wonderful conversation ...
Great vid......
Two further areas for development: Supercapacitors to increase battery capacity and speed up charging; A small petrol engine to charge the batteries, enabling longer flight times at low cost.
How's the noise? Is the electric motor much quieter? Is there potential for further improvement there?
Fantástico espectacular 😆👍👍
I look fwd to the day they make EP viable, but for now it's still a novelty
Half a decade later. EP is now viable, but for some reason you're not seeing it used in ultralight aircraft.
With same set up that installed onto good design glider with ultra-light-weight solar film onto the wings. You rely on good thermo up draft for lift during motor turned off. On in-air charging mode. Your final answer: Hours and hours of your single flying time, as still has charge in battery. Free power, "twice!" 1 is thermo as 2 is solar (sun). The final approach, use motor as a generator to slow down during high glide-slope.
Whats the price tag on this?
Wow Super!!! How much does it cost?
I love
So many comments about solar panels by so many people that have no idea about solar calculations. Solar panels! The solar panels are magic! Why no solar panels!?
probably because 30 kw in panels covers a city parking lot.
Micah Schuck it's called asking questions it's what smart people do when they take an interest in something.
Asking is fine, but acting like you know more when you don't is not. Most of these people are asking, but some are acting a bit self righteous.
Overunity is the future for electricity ⚡️
+fromkentucky What do you think about powering the electric motor with a portable generator and using the battery as a backup? Portable generators can run for 4 to 12 hours, are easy to swap out and still provide the torque and reliability of the electric motor. The main problem I see is weight.
(I could not get this to post under your comment)
not sure it would be efficient as you have to take into account the losses throughout the energy chain (thermal losses on ICE engine, losses when generating current, when getting it through the battery pack and through the electric motor). I think it would be really heavy for an ultralight (but on long cruises it would most certainly give some interesting range !
msnpassjan2004 the motor draws 30kw , a 30kw generator is far from portable, even if you could get away with say a 10kw it would not fit in the plane and weigh over 200lbs.
What is the cost of this aircraft?
How about covering the wing with adhesive solar cells?
Be nice to put some kind of charging system on the aircraft that will charge the battery while flying
Probably not worth the extra weight
How about solar panels on the wings?
Curious if the FAA has issued any guidance on part 103 regarding battery mass and the 254lb dry limit. I hope they would, but at the same time nobody wants the FAA to touch 103. It’s an unregulated haven with such minimal requirements and if they updated that, I can’t imagine they’d leave it as permissive as it’s been for 40 years.
I found some unfortunate guidance from the FAA circa 2012. At that time, they interpreted that there would be no allowance for batteries in place of fuel, raising dubious issues regarding fuel capacity limitations, and mentioning the crazy (but hopefully soon to be fixed) ban on LSA electric aircraft. I think it would be relatively easy to issue an updated interpretation that a fuel allowance of 5 gallons of mass (30lbs) could be applied to batteries while maintaining equivalent safety and range restrictions while introducing a whole new class of electric ultralights that are quieter and less impactful environmentally than noisy 2 strokes screaming overhead while going nowhere fast.
www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/practice_areas/regulations/interpretations/data/interps/2012/Carpenter-RainbowAviationServices_2012_Legal_Interpretation.pdf
How long time in air on one battery charged ?
90 minutes.
In the video he says "40 minutes" with 90 lbs battery weight.
Here's the link to the 4 minute mark: ua-cam.com/video/ogx48kBEgQU/v-deo.htmlm
Yes but the electric motor is much lighter than the gas engine and the batteries DO NOT count as weight not are they limited to a size of pack for part 103. You can build a much more complete ultralight for the same weight and have all the torque, very little maintenance and the electric motors cost less. If you fly local it';s not a bad deal. Get a second battery keep flying. the structure only needs to be built for flight, not to absorb vibration or harmonics.
They need a full size folding prop since a feathering prop may not be legal for part 103. They have had them for RC for years. Lets see them scale it up.
Friend, There's no such restriction in part 103 regarding a feathering prop. Ain't THAT Grand!
Would it be economical to have a small generator driven by the motor? At least to extend the range another few minutes?
You mean, use your stored electric power to drive the motor to drive a generator to store electric power in the battery? That is a loss of energy, not a gain.
Could you put solar planels in the wings. Self charge.
genevacoast IMHO: Present solar panel efficiency no where close to sustaining pilot and air frame load. Recall NASA building an electric test platform not long ago, extremely light airframe with huge wings and several small motors. Link (not the plane I mentioned but interesting) www.upi.com/Science_News/2015/05/04/NASA-tests-ten-engine-electric-airplane/1411430754202/
Unlike an airplane with an internal combustion engine, the batteries keep their volume AND mass.
The weight of Avgas is reduced while flying, but the volume stays the same.
This will change the flying characteristics of the airplane during a long flight. If you burn say 85 out of 100 l Avgas during a flight. When you almost run out of battery power your aircraft is still heavy!
Just a thought...
Any comments?
olafzijnbuis weight is going to be the same when almost running out of batery, but i THINK they still would have the same output.
What about hybrid, run a small engine that can power the e motors, this could charge the batteries while it's running improving its range and ability
How is this best idea in 2021 ????? Any progress....?
Needed more than 50 solar panels is better than dollar per hour on electricity bill.
give me the link pls on electric motor and controller
As near as I can tell, the e-Gull isn't available on the market. I'm not even sure any of the Thundergull aircraft are truly available at this time, which is too bad, as they are excellent airplanes. If anybody has any better info, let us know.
ok have you tryed solar pannels placed inside transpairent wings to charge wile flying so you dont half to land so offen lol sounds like a idea that mint make your plains much more popular they have flexable solar pannels now could rap around the wing lol just a thought lol im a thinker lol
the sunseeker duo does just that, though probably slower
O ok thanks
I bet that would just weigh it down more than help. I think its going to be w the new high energy density supercapicators that will increase flight time -- thats what I'm looking to use
Andy Payne super-capacitors regrettably won't be the answer either. They were promising and some wild claims made but they are not delivering when tested.. at least not for long term discharge. Short term is fine and battery extenders yes. Solar panels not efficient enough to compensate for the installation. Ram turbines are OK on descent but more efficient not to ascend so high in the first place. The answers will come but they are not just around the corner
***** Ya I talked to Maxwell about their super caps (like 48v and 4000F) and they said they use them on buses but thats just for quick charge discharge - I think the current available is terrible compared w lithium.
Voltage is a big part of the answer. I want high voltage in my electric vehicles because I can have the same power at less current meaning less heating of the wires. So adding batteries in series gives me more voltage but also more dead space because of the casing material so its all a balancing act.
The biggest thing about electric motor is nearly no heat plus much lesser amount of operation friction than gas powered engine.
2014 and he's talking about gas @ $4 / gallon... here we are 2020 and it's $2.50 / gallon.
Can I fly as high as possible and glide home ,for how long time ?
I know adding solar cells to the top of the wings would add weight, however, it sure would increase range. Flexible, light weight solar cells are beginning to be available on the market.
would do squat for those batteries though. Maybe during the day when it's sitting recharging but for flight time it wouldn't make a bit of difference.
I think the best solution is to carry a roll out solar panel, toss it on the wing when you park and charge the batteries. This would be great for taking day trips.
No, it really wouldn't add much to the flight time. Takes a lot more solar cells than you think.
I've seen articles about solar cells that are incorporated into a plastic film. If the wing covering could be made of this plastic film, the entire wing could be a solar panel.
I'm sure it's the first thing electric aircraft designers think of...and dismiss. I did a simple calculation for the eSpider for example which has 15sq.meters wing area, which could put out about 3 kw of power with state of the art solar panels and (15sq.m * 200 watt/sq.m), if that. The motor is 20kw and batteries are about 25kgs for 40 minutes flight time assuming. Even if we assume the additional solar panels/extra electronics don't weigh anything, you're looking at an additional 10 minutes of flight time with solar panels at best.
Instead you can just add a 13kg battery pack and get 20 minutes more.
This is for ultralights which have low wingloading. So you can bet solar is useless for faster/heavier planes.
Battery power densities are about to increase exponentially due to new technologies, solar is already near max power per area so only major improvements is cheaper panels.
Conclusion: Solar is pretty much useless for aircraft, except maybe gliders and very very slow ultralights.
So 2020: ultralight solar techniek on the wings
Friend, congratulations, and the future of electric motors, already have the kites for assembly, as electric, to be sent to Brazil, which sales contact.
Line the top of the wings with high output, leightweight solar panels to charge/power while flying...could even eventually make it perpetual while in flight if you can mix powered flight with gliding.
dananguish11 regrettably solar panels are so inefficient that they would not be able to compensate for the weight or the panel and control circuitry. We looked into this extensively and unless it is an aircraft of the type that is currently crossing the pacific, it wont work.
*****
Hmm. I'm not too familiar with all the physics of aviation. Could I send you some solar technology information?
dananguish11 sure
USNVA won't produce enough
***** My thought is to extend overall flight time, even if it's an extra half an hour or full hour, but not to necessarily power the aircraft indefinitely.
If the wings were made purely from solar panel material then it might get 10-20% more range
not at a 10-30 kw burn rate, might get 4kw on a clear day in the desert at noon, if you cover every square inch and keep the charge controller very light. for may 2% battery energy density is the only real solution.
solar panels inwings to power in house use lights and things
no need. those things don't take much poser. Please forget the solar cell stuff as it's a non starter here.
I was how come it weighs so much, is this the motorcycle engine? I would want enough power to climb to 20.000 ft then just learn to glide. And electric is the only way for me.
Why don't people make a diesel electric 😜
Because you lose at least 10% in the generator and 10% in the motor. You can drive a propellor directly very easily, so why lose 20% plus weight of motor , generator af diesel (heavier than gas engine, I think). In a locomotive, their is no practical way to make a transmission for thousands of hp from a huge 16 cyl diesel. People have made diesel planes, I think.
Looks like the e-Gull has been abandoned. Too bad.
Big LiPo batteries like RC planes, and slide em out every hour and exchange em at designated pit stops.....hmmmm what a pain........need plasma generated fuel cells that have cross country capability.
Electronics can fail too ..... resistors etc. Watch & see another reason to give me a glider .
This IS a very efficient glider. About 18 to 1.
Sure, electric motors are pretty cheap, but when you add other parts that's needed to run it, electric is way more expensive than combustion engine, both in short run and long run.
I like his attitude but I didn't like his plane and electric motor it's to big and not efficient battery,
I think he dosnot know the electric market