When Tim Holland said so confidently about Alexander defeating Porus but his troops had 'enough' (?) & decided to turn back (as if Holland was sitting in Alexander's Tent listening to Alexander whine about it?), it would have been a good time for Dalrymple to interrupt him and ask about the "sources" about this "face-saving story"? Holland's western bias is so obvious. Mahabhartha preceded Homer by at least 2000 years but that would puncture the Western sense of superiority?
You are not helping your side of the argument by getting your FACTS wrong. The Iliad was composed 400 years before the oldest parts of the Mahabharata! And there are parts of the Mahabharata that clearly copy the Odyssey, namely the archery challenge among the suitors. Except the Mahabharata version is dumber… a fish twirling on a stick. In general the Mahabharata is a verbose work with an idiotic storyline. Sorry to tell you facts.
@@dideroteffect As per Western /European sources, Mahabharata is conveniently dated to 400 BC (before 'Christ'). This is wrong. Thats the point. Mahabharata is at least from 3100 BC. The West won in the last 300 years, destroyed India/East and has re-written all History. Homer's Illiad copied parts of Mahabharata. Mahabhartha, Ramayana, Puranas, Vedas.... this whole body of Hindu literature is original, independent & oldest Greeks & Romans did not even have advanced Maths (no zero?) - instead had a pebble (literally called Calculus) based counting system of symbols. West called "Indian numerals" as "Arabic" numerals as West mostly had direct contact only with Arabs until about 1000 years ago. West had No astronomy, advanced medicine/surgery, science or advanced spirituality unlike India (Bharath). Current Roman Christian Calendar is so flawed (no concept of fractions like 1/4th, hence the leap year & months with uneven days) - The Hindus (living in the (H)Indus civilization) had a much advanced calendar, even till date. And on and on... Sorry to burst your bubble. Until 1300 years ago, Europe was mostly Barbarians in damp cold forests (with exception of 800 years of Greeks + Romans & even they did not measure up to Hindu Civilization
@@essm4179I seem to have triggered you, since you went on a tangent about Indian contributions to math. Don’t do this when you are arguing a point… it proves that you are more sensitive than you are intelligent. you continue to make up your own facts. You seem to be proud to attribute the invention of zero to India (which is fine). Well, there is ZERO evidence that the Mahabharata existed until much later than either the Hebrew Bible and the works attributed to Homer. No archaeological evidence, nothing. And again, it is a horrible story with an idiotic plot and characters even more nonsensical than Marvel drivel. Truly one of the most overrated works. The Bhagavad Gita (the best known section) is terrible too! I don’t discount the contributions to math that Indians made. But I’d still say they were far behind the Greeks of Alexandria in their time.
@@dideroteffect Yes bro, any other historical identity you would like to steal from us? We get it, we f'ed up big time 400-500 years ago as a civilization but atleast don't change the history. Our "Surya siddhanta" is approx 1200 CE old and we literally predicted the diameter or earth diameter of moon and distance b/w earth and moon with high degree of precision considering we are talking about 1200CE. Yet the west was oblivious to our achievements and literally created a format of patenting scientific findings. Indian numerals are believed to be arabic numerals. Indian algebra was beleived to be arabic as well. Don't worry we even shared the calculation methods with greeks. The only difference was that Indian calculations were more accurate. Now you are claiming mahabharata is copy of Illiad. Illiad is 200,000 words large whereas mahabharata is 1,800,000 words large. And the arguement you are using is "archery challenge", which is not exclusive to greeks and a pretty common occurence in kshatriya clans in Indian context. I understand that it might be hard to imagine current indians as warrior class. We have been defeated, our discoveries stolen, our literature destroyed, our history rewritten but atleast don't make it that obvious. Don't tell me That a country with no lions somehow inspired a country with highest population of asiatic lions to use lions as their symbol. Don't embarass yourself. # Alexander defeated india but troops were done with fighting so he went away. Pathetic.
Sorry, black pepper is native to Malabar coast, not Indonesia as you mentioned! Also, atrocious timelines about Homer and Mahabharata! Can’t they ever get off the Eurocentrism even when the evidence stares on their face?!
Not sure about the symbol being borrowed, but Greeks did know about the lions. Even if they did not have them on their islands (there is some evidence that they did), they definitely knew about the now extinct Barbary Lions from North Africa.
@@ThePolymerisstthe point is that because of bhagawan Narasimha of Indians, it is important for Indians to have that as their emblem than it is important for Greece to just put some animal randomly as their symbol. Indians have various animals associated with their Devatas and hence it makes sense and reason why certain dynasties, kings, emperors of India put certain animals on their symbols, emblems, flags, signs, coins etc. It doesn't make sense that Greeks put it there because they were aware of the animals of other lands. That's not anybody does. A king would represent its soil and from where he came. So if lion is in Greece as its symbol well then it means that that Greek king was Indian. And that's how it became the Greece symbol.
@@so-much-to-learn I am not denying or even discussing anything about that. I don't know why you felt the need to write a long paragraph. I am only talking about the second sentence in the original comment.
He was talking about the column - which is very much Greco-Roman; not the Lions. Calm your tits. And yes, Lions did exist in Europe in antiquity and Narsimha is a mythological character. Why do you think British emblems have so many Lions?
While poverty in India is real, it was never the full truth, not even nearly. One may not overlook the role of the missionaries and nuns who did their part in painting the country as a hellhole in order to tearjerk the wealthy donors in the West into funding their respective charities.
Alexander is so I consequential in Indian history that you barely find anything written about him in our history. If he had defeated Porus then he wouldn't have been treated that way.
@@razraza3183 Buddy I told you the movie is wrong - it shows a battle that never happened by amalgamating multiple battles. Anyway you believe whatever you want - I am through with children who haven't studied making up nonsense. Here is a quote - an exact quote "In 326 BC, Alexander defeated Porus and the Pauravas during the Battle of the Hydaspes,[1][2] but that engagement was possibly the Macedonians' most costly battle.[3]" Fuller (1958), p. 198 for citation. Enough with your nonsense. There is nothing to be gained by lying - learn the history as a passive observer. Why would any India leader be able to defeat that army. Nothing could have defeated them other than themselves. By this stage they were pure psychopaths. I do not get my history from movies - we get history from scholarship - university or texts . Sources primary and secondary. Not a fictional account Here is an actual journal article for you to read if you care to learn. Indians have never been known for their military prowess - they lacked the savagery of Europeans. www.jstor.org/stable/642312
If you had done just the utmost minimal of research you would have quickly discovered that Alexander defeated Porus at Hydaspes, upon which the latter surrendered totally to the Macedonians. In fact, Alexander did not lose one single direct battle with anyone on the Indian subcontinent. The reason the Macedonian campaign stopped where it did, is because his foot soldiers threatened a mutiny if they would not finally be able to return home.
Alexander a blood thirsty leader, a leader whose army managed to cut through the eastern europe, middle East like butter apparently without much resistance had a real taste of what a war was with Porus' army. Which leader would like not to proceed ahead with a victory in his pocket and lure of riches. Alexander actually had a resounding defeat at the banks of Indus. And the news that even sterner tests were ahead made him think and his army baulked at the thought of proceeding. Finally he turned back and died mid way because of injuries suffered in the battle of hydaspes
The name Megasthenes is probably derived from the Sanskrit word "mahā sthanās" meaning the one with great chested (or "breasted" and hence of great or mighty shoulders reflective of valor).
Greeks have ruled over india. They were very different they were more buddhist than greeks. Milind converted to buddhism and ruled india. Saying Alexander won battle against porus is foolish. Later seleucus lost to chandragupta. So how come greeks writers wrote a wrong history. They were very malicious in this. In that greece people did not knew where india was so this lie could be easily accepted. Still today nobody questioned it. Europeans are blind is they accept this fake fact.
Please plot the TIME LINES of Greek civilisation, when HOMER existed and the Indian civilisation ....and when the Mahabharata was first spoken and then written. And can you tell me why Greek Gods are so similar to many Hindu Gods ? And prior to Mahabharata , which Indian texts and stories existed (Rig Vedas, Upanishads etc )? So exact timeliness please
He compared illiad and Mahabharat and thinks that Mahabharat is inspired from illiad. For information of general public - Mahabharat war happened in 5561 BC. It was written few years after the war. Illiad was dated around 1200~1300 BC. Thats 3200 years after Mahabharat. So, one can guess who might be inspired by what! In illiad, Achilles dies by an arrow in heel. In Mahabharat, Krushna dies by an arrow in heel. But the main difference - Krushna is 107~108 uears old and he was shot by a hunter in a forest. So death by an injury/bleeding in old age is possible. Achilles got shot during war when he was fully fit and not old. So, he could have survived comfortably. But still the poet let him die. Was it because that the main character of Mahabharat died by an arrow in heel, so the main character of illiad dies the same way?
"Mahabharat war happened in 5561 BC. " citation needed. There is no historical evidence for it. Currently it is understood by historians to be a story. I dont mind if Mahabharata was inspired -- though i doubt it
@@ketansrivastav Shri. Nilesh Oak has proved it. He has written books and presented his research in numerous you tube videos. His books can be bought on Subbu publication website in India and on Amazon outside India. Watch his videos, read his books. After that, if you think he is wrong, prove him wrong! He has openly invited critics and proofs of a different date calculated with scientific research. Shri. Nilesh Oak also has found corroborative evidence from other fields such as climatology, oceanography, genealogy supporting his date. These researches has been conducted by western scientists independently who didn't know anything about Mahabharat. But their research provides the evidence which corroborates Mahabharat did happen and in 5561 BC.
@@ketansrivastav Shri. Nilesh Oak has proved it. Read his books to understand how he has proved it. He also has given many talks/podcasts on UA-cam, if you prefer listening. He has found corroborative evidence for historicity of Mahabharat from various other scientific domains such as climatology, oceanography, genealogy, geology, etc. All these corroborative evidence are actually research papers published by western scientists independently of each other and without any knowledge of Mahabharat. Ironically, their research proves that Mahabharat did really happen and in 5561 BC.
@@kishangupta1685 For proof - read the books written by Shri. Nilesh Oak. Listen to numerous talks he has given at various places, colleges. All of them are available on you tube.
It's interesting to learn that the Roman's, the Greek & Persians have a great respect to India but the British looted India even as they regarded Ghandhi as " a half naked fakir" . If you regard the conquered as inferior it is easier to subjugate them.
It is stii true today . Greek is Indian subculture . They know it admit it . Arab knows it admit it . Anglosaxions are the nastiest colonizer in human history.
isnt it somewhat the other way around Ie The Inidans cremate their dead And the Zorashtrian Persians - place their dead in the tower of Silence to be picked cleaned by vultures
Okay, I’m just treating this as a conversation between two amateur “historians” who are comparing conjectural notes…..I stopped listening at 34:55 or thereabouts 🙄
William Dalrymple is objective and fine. The other one is suffering from inferiority complex because his west European ancestors were living in mud huts like their African bros just one and half millennium back. Barbarian.
This idea that Alexander defeated Porus is suspect. It is more like he was defeated and sent back. The story that the soldiers had enough and therefore returned may be just be a face saving story to keep the legend that he conquered the world.
exactly! Indian sources of that period didnt notice such "great invasion" of Alexander! ( they also didnt know any raj Porus).Pay atyentiin that Puranas noticed later- real massive invasion of Menander). it seems that this Alexander's invasion was totall failure for Alexander and this "semi-god" was defeated by local Indian warlord/commander, so unimportant that he was unknown in other parts of Bharat. but to keep great Alexander myth alive- and hide its shamefull reality- greek historians created rich fiction story full of sothisticated episodes. but european academic history believes in every word of greeks .they dont care that ancient Indian sources (puranas) keep total silence on Alexander 's "invasion".
Even Greek sources tell us Poruus ended with double the territory than he started with. Porus was a frontier tribal leader with about 50 villages at his command. Alexander realized India was too much for his army. In fact Persia is blown into 20 x of what it was to inflate Greem achievements
I am a Greek, studied Alexander for over a decade and I love your critical thinking. Either way whether he lost a battle or not is not relevant, the fact remains he could not conquer the place and he knew it. He took it out on his men. Your take is definitely worthy of consideration and fits in with what we know
@SI-qp7cm Just watch the movie Alexander and you will see Alexander horse getting killed and Alexander falling down from his horse. This is extremely important to note, because Alexander,who was deemed divine by his soldiers, fell down from his horse and was wounded in chest. Alexander was thought to be infallible.
@@razraza3183 wrong again cuzzo . Alexander had so many wounds that it didn’t bear counting. The battle in the movie didn’t happen, it is an amalgamation . Alexander never lost a battle and was not defeated. It is fair to say that his men felt it impossible to conquer the Hindus valley. Whether Alexander could have or not is besides the point. He won, the op says he was defeated that is just incorrect end of story. Not sure who Porus was and am sure Alexander did not know. I think it is clear that Alexander’s army would have demolished whatever army was in its path. Must keep in mind they are 12 years , conquered everything and never lost a battle. Imagine the savagery, for example they never depicted the battle against Indians where he was injured by an arrow and where the entire city was butchered , man woman and child . There is not an army anywhere in the world at the time thst coukd beat them but the truth is they revolted . When I say this understand that I take no pride in this, these were not heroic men. Like sadghuru said he was a butcher
Today the contemporary people cannot guess how Europeans saw India before the age of explorers. Tis was a time when the Ottoman emperors where colonizing the Europeans, when India was under attack from the Turks, who previously 1500-1200 bc fought the Kurukshetra war and destroyed the imperial Yadava to impose Semitic Hinduism replacing the superior theology of Sanatan religion. But now India was open to Muslims who found a rich source of revenue and by the time of the Mughals they were the richest in the world, even more than the Ottomans.
Guys just know everything came from India. I’m not kidding. I am not a big fan of India but it’s true. Everything came from south to north through trade.
FYU THE ROMANS DID TRADE ON Hing/ Asafotedia a pungent plant herb ! Much sought after till today from present Afgahnistan.by Ship? Stinky Resin must have driven Arab Camels crazy lol.
Indian sources of that period didnt noticed such "great invasion" of Alexander! ( they also didnt know any raj Porus).Pay atyentiin that Puranas noticed later- real massive invasion of Menander). it seems that this Alexander's invasion was totall failure for Alexander and this "semi-god" was defeated by local Indian warlord/commander, so unimportant that he was unknown in other parts of Bharat. but to keep great Alexander myth alive- and hide its shamefull reality- greek historians created rich fiction story full of sothisticated episodes. but european academic history believes in every word of greeks .they dont care that ancient Indian sources (puranas) keep total silence on Alexander 's "invasion".
All the geneologies in puranas are correct and they go back thousands of years back in antiquity which is older than any other culture on the earth. Myths is a easy term to associate by those who lacks proper research on Puranas. They r metaphorical history and history .@@ankit5820
If Homer was influenced by Mahabharata, is the dating of Mahabharata right. Is Mahabharata referred in biblical terms. Is meluha right term for India as of the Bible. What would be the closest language in linguistic tree to translate Mahabharata from Indo European languages i.e either Sanskrit or Pali ?
@@shobadasari5363 how was Homer influenced by? Homer is not real, there is no Homer . Some historian to not point that out . Homer means a blind man . The illiad et al were oral poems recited by Homers plural since before 900bc . It was later written .
😂the east wouldn't have amount to o Nothing if it wasn't for the Europeans they must think alot of themselves but the world is finding out that its the opposite what would west be if nothing went to the west from the east when will they admit the facts but we know that will NEVER happen and that is atleast how much we know of the Europeans
The whites somehow cant digest india was way ahead of them 😂😂😂. It was like usa of today, thats why every one wants to there like usa today. Logic dictates that
From mathura only greeko Buddhist hybrid religion gods n culture came out of all the escalations n GPR etc electro magnetic etc surveys and nothing. Ao Krishna must be a small village god and these Mathura Buddhist kings must be today's Yadavas who were later form down to shudras by brahminism.
Comment section is full of people stating fantasies as facts. We will never learn how to look at history objectively. No wonder the present is so screwed up. We still live in some fanatsized past.
Many traders from west making money from import and exports would want to avoid competition, so they would spread these fantastic stories to create a mental barrier for new entrants. The western historians use these " stories"as history😅 then they talk about mythology😂
As the de-dollerisation progresses, all the Proclaimed Historians will start finding evidence of ancient societies all over the world - before the rise of Buddha, Abraham, Christ, Mohd, etc. And these societies will be connected with Sanatan Vedic Dharma in some way. One of the above speaker is the first example who have taken a U turn from glorifying Mughals to glorifying ancient Bharat.
Not all. I've never even been to india but his bias is disgusting. but judging from your name, the depth of your self hatred is pretty sad...and the word is zombie...
How many of ethnographic findings relate to Krishna of Mahabharata across the continent. Either along trade routes, or submerged as marine archaeology. How many philosophers describe to Krishna of Mahabharata or for that matter any of pagan gods of Hinduism or refer Hindu rituals which describes Industan.
YOU MUST HAVE BEEN THE BOTTOM OF VARNA SHUDRA.THE UNSKILLED. UNEDUCATED TILL LORD MACAULAY .BESTTOWED KNOWLEGE .SKILL AND COMMUNICATION TO INDIAN BARBARIANS LIKE RAHUL ABD NEHRU DYNASTY?? RIGHT😮
What a bunch of passive aggressive eurocentric nonsense. I know these guys need India and colonially hungover Indians for their careers (who else is going to listen to them?), but seriously this is too self gratifying even for them. Fact is India was way too advanced and rich at the time,attracting unsavory characters from all over the world, including the panelist's ancestors, in hoards to loot,convert and kill,each more cruel than the last;most got repelled in bloody battles and wars over centuries but eventually succeeded in taking over parts of the land, impoverishing its people and appropriating their knowledge, and wealth..leaving it not so advanced any more. Europe developed a cultural and political hubris based on resources blundered from around the world. Now again the tide is turning and Europe is undergoing its inevitable default civilizational reset(based on many factors) into the dark ages,however with their imperialistic ambitions still intact. Like Uk seeing a resurgence of pre Victorian diseases and living conditions. It’s now up to the world to learn from the past and prevent attempts at intellectual neocolonialism like we witness in this video from happening again. It’s also an interesting panel to invite for a discussion on ancient India…..one with a permanent crush on the Mughals and another a writer of gothic fiction ,non fiction mostly limited to Europe and with no training in history😅. Theres tons of primary evidence out there if anyone is interested in the truth about Indian antiquity.
@@Mohamed-Ali-et-les-autresoh yes ….its called information and knowledge…you should try it sometimes. And it’s readily available for free. Warning: it’s highly addictive and affects the brain which then leads to thinking. Not for people who love pretending to be blind so they can be spoon fed by others.
Oh yes…it’s called information and knowledge. You should try it sometimes. And it’s readily available for free. Warning: it’s highly addictive and affects the brain leading to thinking. Not for people who like to pretend to be blind so they can be spoon fed.
@@Mohamed-Ali-et-les-autres Oh yes…it’s called information and knowledge. You should try it sometimes. And it’s readily available for free. Warning: it’s highly addictive and affects the brain leading to thinking. Not for people who like to pretend to be blind so they can be spoon fed.
Oh yes…it’s called information and knowledge. You should try it sometimes. And it’s readily available for free. Warning: it’s highly addictive and affects the brain leading to thinking. Not for people who like to pretend to be blind so they can be spoon fed.
Good lord !! What a whole bunch of baloney being posed as speculative history putting together arbitrary strings and just like AIT , jumping into improbable conclusions
In the days of King Xerexes India was under his rule,and most probabily Parshuram was a persian his name parshu means Farsa,as the old name of Iran was Faras.
When Tim Holland said so confidently about Alexander defeating Porus but his troops had 'enough' (?) & decided to turn back (as if Holland was sitting in Alexander's Tent listening to Alexander whine about it?), it would have been a good time for Dalrymple to interrupt him and ask about the "sources" about this "face-saving story"? Holland's western bias is so obvious. Mahabhartha preceded Homer by at least 2000 years but that would puncture the Western sense of superiority?
You are not helping your side of the argument by getting your FACTS wrong. The Iliad was composed 400 years before the oldest parts of the Mahabharata!
And there are parts of the Mahabharata that clearly copy the Odyssey, namely the archery challenge among the suitors. Except the Mahabharata version is dumber… a fish twirling on a stick.
In general the Mahabharata is a verbose work with an idiotic storyline. Sorry to tell you facts.
@@dideroteffectThat’s because the Greeks invented chronology and it starts with their silly Gods.
@@dideroteffect As per Western /European sources, Mahabharata is conveniently dated to 400 BC (before 'Christ'). This is wrong. Thats the point. Mahabharata is at least from 3100 BC. The West won in the last 300 years, destroyed India/East and has re-written all History. Homer's Illiad copied parts of Mahabharata. Mahabhartha, Ramayana, Puranas, Vedas.... this whole body of Hindu literature is original, independent & oldest Greeks & Romans did not even have advanced Maths (no zero?) - instead had a pebble (literally called Calculus) based counting system of symbols. West called "Indian numerals" as "Arabic" numerals as West mostly had direct contact only with Arabs until about 1000 years ago. West had No astronomy, advanced medicine/surgery, science or advanced spirituality unlike India (Bharath). Current Roman Christian Calendar is so flawed (no concept of fractions like 1/4th, hence the leap year & months with uneven days) - The Hindus (living in the (H)Indus civilization) had a much advanced calendar, even till date. And on and on... Sorry to burst your bubble. Until 1300 years ago, Europe was mostly Barbarians in damp cold forests (with exception of 800 years of Greeks + Romans & even they did not measure up to Hindu Civilization
@@essm4179I seem to have triggered you, since you went on a tangent about Indian contributions to math. Don’t do this when you are arguing a point… it proves that you are more sensitive than you are intelligent.
you continue to make up your own facts. You seem to be proud to attribute the invention of zero to India (which is fine). Well, there is ZERO evidence that the Mahabharata existed until much later than either the Hebrew Bible and the works attributed to Homer. No archaeological evidence, nothing.
And again, it is a horrible story with an idiotic plot and characters even more nonsensical than Marvel drivel. Truly one of the most overrated works. The Bhagavad Gita (the best known section) is terrible too!
I don’t discount the contributions to math that Indians made. But I’d still say they were far behind the Greeks of Alexandria in their time.
@@dideroteffect Yes bro, any other historical identity you would like to steal from us? We get it, we f'ed up big time 400-500 years ago as a civilization but atleast don't change the history. Our "Surya siddhanta" is approx 1200 CE old and we literally predicted the diameter or earth diameter of moon and distance b/w earth and moon with high degree of precision considering we are talking about 1200CE. Yet the west was oblivious to our achievements and literally created a format of patenting scientific findings. Indian numerals are believed to be arabic numerals. Indian algebra was beleived to be arabic as well. Don't worry we even shared the calculation methods with greeks. The only difference was that Indian calculations were more accurate.
Now you are claiming mahabharata is copy of Illiad. Illiad is 200,000 words large whereas mahabharata is 1,800,000 words large. And the arguement you are using is "archery challenge", which is not exclusive to greeks and a pretty common occurence in kshatriya clans in Indian context. I understand that it might be hard to imagine current indians as warrior class. We have been defeated, our discoveries stolen, our literature destroyed, our history rewritten but atleast don't make it that obvious.
Don't tell me That a country with no lions somehow inspired a country with highest population of asiatic lions to use lions as their symbol. Don't embarass yourself.
# Alexander defeated india but troops were done with fighting so he went away. Pathetic.
Sorry, black pepper is native to Malabar coast, not Indonesia as you mentioned! Also, atrocious timelines about Homer and Mahabharata! Can’t they ever get off the Eurocentrism even when the evidence stares on their face?!
The lion symbol is Greek? 🤣🤣🤣 bro since when the fuck are there lions in Greece 😮does bro even know who narsimha is? 😢
‘wEsTerN ExpErTs’.
Not sure about the symbol being borrowed, but Greeks did know about the lions.
Even if they did not have them on their islands (there is some evidence that they did), they definitely knew about the now extinct Barbary Lions from North Africa.
@@ThePolymerisstthe point is that because of bhagawan Narasimha of Indians, it is important for Indians to have that as their emblem than it is important for Greece to just put some animal randomly as their symbol. Indians have various animals associated with their Devatas and hence it makes sense and reason why certain dynasties, kings, emperors of India put certain animals on their symbols, emblems, flags, signs, coins etc. It doesn't make sense that Greeks put it there because they were aware of the animals of other lands. That's not anybody does. A king would represent its soil and from where he came. So if lion is in Greece as its symbol well then it means that that Greek king was Indian. And that's how it became the Greece symbol.
@@so-much-to-learn I am not denying or even discussing anything about that.
I don't know why you felt the need to write a long paragraph.
I am only talking about the second sentence in the original comment.
He was talking about the column - which is very much Greco-Roman; not the Lions. Calm your tits. And yes, Lions did exist in Europe in antiquity and Narsimha is a mythological character. Why do you think British emblems have so many Lions?
While poverty in India is real, it was never the full truth, not even nearly. One may not overlook the role of the missionaries and nuns who did their part in painting the country as a hellhole in order to tearjerk the wealthy donors in the West into funding their respective charities.
Missionaries are the reasons why Hindi gets its grammar
True we need to get rid of ☪️️ancer and ✝umor from india
Hindi came from sanskrit whi h is highly structured and rules
The rural India impoverished with 10000 yrs of heavy taxation by invaders
Superb superb talk!
Alexander is so I consequential in Indian history that you barely find anything written about him in our history. If he had defeated Porus then he wouldn't have been treated that way.
If tom holland claims to k ow about the indian civilization then i claim to be superman.
Alexander was defeated in India.
Alexander horse was killed and Alexander fell down from his horse.
@@razraza3183 source needed. Defeated means lost a battle not a horse. Feel free to name the battle
@@SI-qp7cm
Please watch the movie Alexander and you will see.
Also, Alexander was supposed to be infallible.
Porus defeated Alexander in that battle.
@@razraza3183 Buddy I told you the movie is wrong - it shows a battle that never happened by amalgamating multiple battles. Anyway you believe whatever you want - I am through with children who haven't studied making up nonsense.
Here is a quote - an exact quote
"In 326 BC, Alexander defeated Porus and the Pauravas during the Battle of the Hydaspes,[1][2] but that engagement was possibly the Macedonians' most costly battle.[3]"
Fuller (1958), p. 198 for citation.
Enough with your nonsense. There is nothing to be gained by lying - learn the history as a passive observer. Why would any India leader be able to defeat that army. Nothing could have defeated them other than themselves. By this stage they were pure psychopaths.
I do not get my history from movies - we get history from scholarship - university or texts . Sources primary and secondary. Not a fictional account
Here is an actual journal article for you to read if you care to learn.
Indians have never been known for their military prowess - they lacked the savagery of Europeans.
www.jstor.org/stable/642312
If you had done just the utmost minimal of research you would have quickly discovered that Alexander defeated Porus at Hydaspes, upon which the latter surrendered totally to the Macedonians. In fact, Alexander did not lose one single direct battle with anyone on the Indian subcontinent. The reason the Macedonian campaign stopped where it did, is because his foot soldiers threatened a mutiny if they would not finally be able to return home.
Alexander a blood thirsty leader, a leader whose army managed to cut through the eastern europe, middle East like butter apparently without much resistance had a real taste of what a war was with Porus' army. Which leader would like not to proceed ahead with a victory in his pocket and lure of riches. Alexander actually had a resounding defeat at the banks of Indus. And the news that even sterner tests were ahead made him think and his army baulked at the thought of proceeding. Finally he turned back and died mid way because of injuries suffered in the battle of hydaspes
The name Megasthenes is probably derived from the Sanskrit word "mahā sthanās" meaning the one with great chested (or "breasted" and hence of great or mighty shoulders reflective of valor).
Greeks have ruled over india. They were very different they were more buddhist than greeks. Milind converted to buddhism and ruled india. Saying Alexander won battle against porus is foolish. Later seleucus lost to chandragupta. So how come greeks writers wrote a wrong history. They were very malicious in this. In that greece people did not knew where india was so this lie could be easily accepted. Still today nobody questioned it. Europeans are blind is they accept this fake fact.
Lol ! Ever heard a Greek say theyy lost in Battle? EVEN TO Turks .Germans.INDIANS PERSIANS HUH? MY MISTAKE.😊😊
British starved them to death. 140 million in 40 years?
THEY FORCED OPIUM agriculture for Chinese Trade in NE .Bengal.
Please plot the TIME LINES of Greek civilisation, when HOMER existed and the Indian civilisation ....and when the Mahabharata was first spoken and then written.
And can you tell me why Greek Gods are so similar to many Hindu Gods ?
And prior to Mahabharata , which Indian texts and stories existed (Rig Vedas, Upanishads etc )?
So exact timeliness please
Search about links between Dionysus and Divodas.
Homer predated Mahabharata
How do we know that? Mahabharata is dated to have happened around 6000-7500 years ago by Nilesh Oak by way of multiple evidences.
@@BBeeblebrox Fact : Nilesh Oak is not an historian. He has been debunked by several sanskrit scholars e.g. Nityanand Misra.
@@ShaunakDeogirkarOBC Evidence? Can you please provide your evidence wth timelines?
He compared illiad and Mahabharat and thinks that Mahabharat is inspired from illiad.
For information of general public -
Mahabharat war happened in 5561 BC. It was written few years after the war.
Illiad was dated around 1200~1300 BC. Thats 3200 years after Mahabharat.
So, one can guess who might be inspired by what!
In illiad, Achilles dies by an arrow in heel.
In Mahabharat, Krushna dies by an arrow in heel.
But the main difference -
Krushna is 107~108 uears old and he was shot by a hunter in a forest.
So death by an injury/bleeding in old age is possible.
Achilles got shot during war when he was fully fit and not old.
So, he could have survived comfortably. But still the poet let him die. Was it because that the main character of Mahabharat died by an arrow in heel, so the main character of illiad dies the same way?
"Mahabharat war happened in 5561 BC. " citation needed. There is no historical evidence for it. Currently it is understood by historians to be a story. I dont mind if Mahabharata was inspired -- though i doubt it
@@ketansrivastav
Shri. Nilesh Oak has proved it.
He has written books and presented his research in numerous you tube videos.
His books can be bought on Subbu publication website in India and on Amazon outside India.
Watch his videos, read his books.
After that, if you think he is wrong, prove him wrong! He has openly invited critics and proofs of a different date calculated with scientific research.
Shri. Nilesh Oak also has found corroborative evidence from other fields such as climatology, oceanography, genealogy supporting his date. These researches has been conducted by western scientists independently who didn't know anything about Mahabharat.
But their research provides the evidence which corroborates Mahabharat did happen and in 5561 BC.
@@ketansrivastav
Shri. Nilesh Oak has proved it.
Read his books to understand how he has proved it.
He also has given many talks/podcasts on UA-cam, if you prefer listening.
He has found corroborative evidence for historicity of Mahabharat from various other scientific domains such as climatology, oceanography, genealogy, geology, etc. All these corroborative evidence are actually research papers published by western scientists independently of each other and without any knowledge of Mahabharat.
Ironically, their research proves that Mahabharat did really happen and in 5561 BC.
Mahabharat war happened in 5561 BC . proof: whatsapp history😂😂
@@kishangupta1685
For proof - read the books written by Shri. Nilesh Oak.
Listen to numerous talks he has given at various places, colleges. All of them are available on you tube.
It's interesting to learn that the Roman's, the Greek & Persians have a great respect to India but the British looted India even as they regarded Ghandhi as " a half naked fakir" . If you regard the conquered as inferior it is easier to subjugate them.
It is stii true today . Greek is Indian subculture . They know it admit it . Arab knows it admit it . Anglosaxions are the nastiest colonizer in human history.
The instant they got more power in their hands by the means of firearms they started seeing everyone else as inferior. Power corrupts and deludes.
isnt it somewhat the other way around
Ie
The Inidans cremate their dead
And the Zorashtrian Persians - place their dead in the tower of Silence to be picked cleaned by vultures
Euro-centrism is strong on this one
Glimpse of Srilankan Budhhist attraction likely to Old Nalanda Era?
Mainly Solomon times Traders via Red Seas must be Starting Point!
European exchange for African golds & Eastern natural bounty get Today's crazed Amassment..
..
Okay, I’m just treating this as a conversation between two amateur “historians” who are comparing conjectural notes…..I stopped listening at 34:55 or thereabouts 🙄
William Dalrymple is objective and fine. The other one is suffering from inferiority complex because his west European ancestors were living in mud huts like their African bros just one and half millennium back. Barbarian.
Alexander wasn't the kind who forgives an opponent, or turn back after winning.
This idea that Alexander defeated Porus is suspect. It is more like he was defeated and sent back. The story that the soldiers had enough and therefore returned may be just be a face saving story to keep the legend that he conquered the world.
exactly! Indian sources of that period didnt notice such "great invasion" of Alexander! ( they also didnt know any raj Porus).Pay atyentiin that Puranas noticed later- real massive invasion of Menander). it seems that this Alexander's invasion was totall failure for Alexander and this "semi-god" was defeated by local Indian warlord/commander, so unimportant that he was unknown in other parts of Bharat. but to keep great Alexander myth alive- and hide its shamefull reality- greek historians created rich fiction story full of sothisticated episodes. but european academic history believes in every word of greeks .they dont care that ancient Indian sources (puranas) keep total silence on Alexander 's "invasion".
Even Greek sources tell us Poruus ended with double the territory than he started with. Porus was a frontier tribal leader with about 50 villages at his command. Alexander realized India was too much for his army. In fact Persia is blown into 20 x of what it was to inflate Greem achievements
I am a Greek, studied Alexander for over a decade and I love your critical thinking. Either way whether he lost a battle or not is not relevant, the fact remains he could not conquer the place and he knew it. He took it out on his men. Your take is definitely worthy of consideration and fits in with what we know
@SI-qp7cm
Just watch the movie Alexander and you will see Alexander horse getting killed and Alexander falling down from his horse.
This is extremely important to note, because Alexander,who was deemed divine by his soldiers, fell down from his horse and was wounded in chest. Alexander was thought to be infallible.
@@razraza3183 wrong again cuzzo . Alexander had so many wounds that it didn’t bear counting. The battle in the movie didn’t happen, it is an amalgamation .
Alexander never lost a battle and was not defeated. It is fair to say that his men felt it impossible to conquer the Hindus valley. Whether Alexander could have or not is besides the point. He won, the op says he was defeated that is just incorrect end of story. Not sure who Porus was and am sure Alexander did not know.
I think it is clear that Alexander’s army would have demolished whatever army was in its path. Must keep in mind they are 12 years , conquered everything and never lost a battle. Imagine the savagery, for example they never depicted the battle against Indians where he was injured by an arrow and where the entire city was butchered , man woman and child .
There is not an army anywhere in the world at the time thst coukd beat them but the truth is they revolted .
When I say this understand that I take no pride in this, these were not heroic men. Like sadghuru said he was a butcher
Today the contemporary people cannot guess how Europeans saw India before the age of explorers. Tis was a time when the Ottoman emperors where colonizing the Europeans, when India was under attack from the Turks, who previously 1500-1200 bc fought the Kurukshetra war and destroyed the imperial Yadava to impose Semitic Hinduism replacing the superior theology of Sanatan religion. But now India was open to Muslims who found a rich source of revenue and by the time of the Mughals they were the richest in the world, even more than the Ottomans.
Guys just know everything came from India. I’m not kidding. I am not a big fan of India but it’s true. Everything came from south to north through trade.
FYU THE ROMANS DID TRADE ON Hing/ Asafotedia a pungent plant herb ! Much sought after till today from present Afgahnistan.by Ship? Stinky Resin must have driven Arab Camels crazy lol.
This but unironically. India DID give the world a lot of things
Indian sources of that period didnt noticed such "great invasion" of Alexander! ( they also didnt know any raj Porus).Pay atyentiin that Puranas noticed later- real massive invasion of Menander). it seems that this Alexander's invasion was totall failure for Alexander and this "semi-god" was defeated by local Indian warlord/commander, so unimportant that he was unknown in other parts of Bharat. but to keep great Alexander myth alive- and hide its shamefull reality- greek historians created rich fiction story full of sothisticated episodes. but european academic history believes in every word of greeks .they dont care that ancient Indian sources (puranas) keep total silence on Alexander 's "invasion".
Exactly. And Porus was a virtual unknown in India itself. He was just a frontier tribal leaders with about 50 villages under him.
Puranas r kind of a mythical + reality inspired sources in different times.
They aren't at all reliable as a good source to take any reference from.
@@ankit5820But Puranas are completely neglected. Why not start analysing them. For example Dwarka and Indus Valley was “myth” until it wasn’t
All the geneologies in puranas are correct and they go back thousands of years back in antiquity which is older than any other culture on the earth. Myths is a easy term to associate by those who lacks proper research on Puranas. They r metaphorical history and history .@@ankit5820
Started watching it thinking william will get to speak 😢
I hope everyone can learn thing from india “Ahimsa” non violence 🙏🏽 its really needed today
If Homer was influenced by Mahabharata, is the dating of Mahabharata right. Is Mahabharata referred in biblical terms. Is meluha right term for India as of the Bible. What would be the closest language in linguistic tree to translate Mahabharata from Indo European languages i.e either Sanskrit or Pali ?
Bible is of relative recent vintage Meluha was the name for Harappa civilization, as known to Mesopotamia
@@shobadasari5363 how was Homer influenced by? Homer is not real, there is no Homer . Some historian to not point that out . Homer means a blind man . The illiad et al were oral poems recited by Homers plural since before 900bc . It was later written .
😂the east wouldn't have amount to o
Nothing if it wasn't for the Europeans they must think alot of themselves but the world is finding out that its the opposite what would west be if nothing went to the west from the east when will they admit the facts but we know that will NEVER happen and that is atleast how much we know of the Europeans
????
The whites somehow cant digest india was way ahead of them 😂😂😂. It was like usa of today, thats why every one wants to there like usa today. Logic dictates that
Garbage 🗑️ that's what the person is talking here no facts . showing his eurocentric point of view
Greeks came much later it copied from much ancient civilization Egypt, Mesopotamia, Indian and maybe chinese
From mathura only greeko Buddhist hybrid religion gods n culture came out of all the escalations n GPR etc electro magnetic etc surveys and nothing. Ao Krishna must be a small village god and these Mathura Buddhist kings must be today's Yadavas who were later form down to shudras by brahminism.
Comment section is full of people stating fantasies as facts. We will never learn how to look at history objectively. No wonder the present is so screwed up. We still live in some fanatsized past.
Oh my heavens, the podgods meet!
Many traders from west making money from import and exports would want to avoid competition, so they would spread these fantastic stories to create a mental barrier for new entrants. The western historians use these " stories"as history😅 then they talk about mythology😂
As the de-dollerisation progresses, all the Proclaimed Historians will start finding evidence of ancient societies all over the world - before the rise of Buddha, Abraham, Christ, Mohd, etc.
And these societies will be connected with Sanatan Vedic Dharma in some way.
One of the above speaker is the first example who have taken a U turn from glorifying Mughals to glorifying ancient Bharat.
Tom Holland believes fairy tales 😂
These guys know their history, and tell it in the most fascinating way, but their accents and pronunciation of names and places is atrocious!! 🤷♂😂
The intention is what matters ❤️
Atrocious accents?
Have you heard some of the indian pronunciations of European places ?. It goes both ways
😂
Holland seems to lack a fundamental idea about Indian civilization. Comedy it is
Most of rhe comments are by Hindutwa IT Cell Zoombies.
Not all. I've never even been to india but his bias is disgusting. but judging from your name, the depth of your self hatred is pretty sad...and the word is zombie...
You are right and it's scary 😮
Guess comments from indians on their own history is hurting Pakistanis and anti nationals.
What you disagree with? 😂
Talking of India, by these two Brits...and we should agree...but you think Hindutiva...left it cell..😅
How many of ethnographic findings relate to Krishna of Mahabharata across the continent. Either along trade routes, or submerged as marine archaeology. How many philosophers describe to Krishna of Mahabharata or for that matter any of pagan gods of Hinduism or refer Hindu rituals which describes Industan.
Alexander was not great.
He was a BUTCHER.
Paganism is a loaded term and is rather ironical Romans invested the term but ultimately their own God's became pagan.
YOU MUST HAVE BEEN THE BOTTOM OF VARNA SHUDRA.THE UNSKILLED.
UNEDUCATED TILL LORD MACAULAY .BESTTOWED KNOWLEGE .SKILL AND COMMUNICATION TO INDIAN BARBARIANS LIKE RAHUL ABD NEHRU DYNASTY?? RIGHT😮
I dont think thus story of Alexander defeating Porus is true! 🙂 inmo this is not truth!
Maha bur OTTA!😂
Stopped listening to this podcast...after their Alexander expose...cerainly not historians...disapponited with Darlymple..
What a wasted discussion. Two very suspect historians with little depth and a lot of guesswork.
What a bunch of passive aggressive eurocentric nonsense. I know these guys need India and colonially hungover Indians for their careers (who else is going to listen to them?), but seriously this is too self gratifying even for them. Fact is India was way too advanced and rich at the time,attracting unsavory characters from all over the world, including the panelist's ancestors, in hoards to loot,convert and kill,each more cruel than the last;most got repelled in bloody battles and wars over centuries but eventually succeeded in taking over parts of the land, impoverishing its people and appropriating their knowledge, and wealth..leaving it not so advanced any more. Europe developed a cultural and political hubris based on resources blundered from around the world. Now again the tide is turning and Europe is undergoing its inevitable default civilizational reset(based on many factors) into the dark ages,however with their imperialistic ambitions still intact. Like Uk seeing a resurgence of pre Victorian diseases and living conditions. It’s now up to the world to learn from the past and prevent attempts at intellectual neocolonialism like we witness in this video from happening again. It’s also an interesting panel to invite for a discussion on ancient India…..one with a permanent crush on the Mughals and another a writer of gothic fiction ,non fiction mostly limited to Europe and with no training in history😅.
Theres tons of primary evidence out there if anyone is interested in the truth about Indian antiquity.
Your outlook on history is fascinating, Do you do drugs? Can you give me the name ?
@@Mohamed-Ali-et-les-autresoh yes ….its called information and knowledge…you should try it sometimes. And it’s readily available for free. Warning: it’s highly addictive and affects the brain which then leads to thinking. Not for people who love pretending to be blind so they can be spoon fed by others.
Oh yes…it’s called information and knowledge. You should try it sometimes. And it’s readily available for free. Warning: it’s highly addictive and affects the brain leading to thinking. Not for people who like to pretend to be blind so they can be spoon fed.
@@Mohamed-Ali-et-les-autres Oh yes…it’s called information and knowledge. You should try it sometimes. And it’s readily available for free. Warning: it’s highly addictive and affects the brain leading to thinking. Not for people who like to pretend to be blind so they can be spoon fed.
Oh yes…it’s called information and knowledge. You should try it sometimes. And it’s readily available for free. Warning: it’s highly addictive and affects the brain leading to thinking. Not for people who like to pretend to be blind so they can be spoon fed.
Good lord !! What a whole bunch of baloney being posed as speculative history putting together arbitrary strings and just like AIT , jumping into improbable conclusions
They are talking about what ancient writers thought about India!!
Was Macaulay. Thapar.Habib
MAJUMDAR.
MUNDER AMONG THE CPI.CONGRESS WRITERS? WRITERS
Dalrymple needs medical attention. That belly is dangerous.
NO WORRIES ASK ANY WATER BUFFALO IN INDIA.IT IS METHANE/ Hydrogen Flatus😊😊..50 liter per hour will do the Trick in the open Air😅😅
Indians eating and not burning? Tim Holland are u on drugs?
What Baloney. When was India a part of Persia? Are u all delirious?
In the days of King Xerexes India was under his rule,and most probabily Parshuram was a persian his name parshu means Farsa,as the old name of Iran was Faras.
Mahabharata influenced by Homer 😂😂. Cope and seethe, my western kings!
What is the timeline in which he says that?