Athena was credited for inventing many things, like the chariot and the plow, just to name a few. To make an inventor hate technology is a really weird choice.
"The gods are being hunted for thousands of years. This is the first time a god gets to hunt their hunters." is a much better concept than whatever the hell the true concept of this book is.
Another thing of note, that tells of the lack of research/chronological inconsistency of Bracken's research, is the ORIGIN of Medusa. In the original Classical/Ancient Greek legend, Medusa was BORN a Gorgon, along with her two sisters Stheno and Euryale. No transformation, but birthed from primordial gods. The myth about Medusa being a priestess of Athena/Minerva came from OVID, a Roman writer, who was known to be critical of the emperors, who if you know Roman history, typically were deified. As such, many people critical of the leadership would use the gods as stand-ins for the emperors. The pop-culture narrative of Medusa being SA'd and thus being turned into a feminist icon of protection came much later. Which I should add is obviously okay, I mean, she was just a lady-monster chilling on her island before Perseus came along to wack off her head. #medusadidnothingwrong. Anyways, it always irks me that most people turn to the SA with Poseidon interpretation rather than the original, as later tellings are clouded by the socio-political environment they were in (not to say the OG was void of this, only the later ones were more obvious). This could have been an interesting point, coinciding with what you guys said about myths and how cultures/times change them to fit a narrative. Athena (in Lore) could have baulked at Lore's accusatory question of why she punished Medusa for being a victim, and be like 'what do you mean? that was something humans made up to keep the gender inequalities', which could then be an avenue of exploration of how people (mainly the hunter clans) keep power within their ranks. I guess similar to how Zeus keeps the other gods under him with the hunt and so on. (Don't get me started on Zeus being the neutral, and benevolent god in this book. Most of the conflicts in Greek mythology can be summed up in one sentence: 'Unfortunately, Zeus was horny'.) ANYWAYS! Rant over, but a lovely video from you guys! Can't wait for more!
And hera cand punish him directly and has to defend the sanctity of marriage, because she is that god. But he is th king of gods. And teus can be benevolent and good, just , can you stillhave him moody at least, and mention he grew , i guess, and made up with his wife wit hsome agreement .
I'd say that would've been stronger, but part of the thing to me was Medusa and Lore were both women screwed over by the system and left damaged from it. I'd actually say as someone who has read a lot of ancient Greek and Roman texts, she did research it well and understood a lot of the underlying logic of it.
So that moment where Lore confronts Athena about her legends that don't appear very feminist would've been a really interesting opportunity to have particular discussions about how our modern society doesn't understand the same poetic metaphors from back in the day. (I went to college for this kinda crap so...I'm unreasonably invested) Now the story of Arachnie is an interesting case because we have a lot of evidence (based on letters and other writings by the attested author of the tale) to suggest that the author made the story up purely in a moment of depression and rage. No anecdotal experience, or some dream he had, or a local legend. Dude was in a terrible place, so he wanted to take his rage out on a god. Classic. But the story of Medusa, now that is a completely different context, because we don't understand the metaphor of transformation in the same way the ancient Greeks did. When we think of transformation poetically, we think of a caterpillar becoming a butterfly, someone morphing into their grandest self, the old for the new, or perhaps just the natural stage of life and growing up. But for the ancient Greeks, transformation was a transgression against nature. To transform was to become something other than what you were naturally intended for. This motif is best expressed in stories like Medusa's, where a woman is divinely changed into something else after a sexual attack. This should not be understood as a punishment. It should be understood as a mercy. Because another thing we don't understand anymore is how the Greeks of the time saw transitions from girlhood into womanhood. Today we think of a girl becoming a woman once she reaches the age of consent, that age depending on what country you live in. But for the ancient Greeks, a girl became a woman after her first sexual experience, regardless of her consent to that sexual experience. So sexual violence was perfectly acceptable, she'd be a woman now. So when Athena turns Medusa into a creature other than a human woman, she is essentially allowing Medusa to escape not only the violence, but the social transition of womanhood being forced onto her by the sexual violence. As such, Athena gives Medusa the power over her own personal, social, and bodily autonomy. It's just unfortunate that this author didn't have a loser nerd like me going "um actually" while they were writing this, because that could've been an interesting theme to take the book in, or at least conversation to have, "How do you understand and contextualize these old myths." The book is called LORE after all.
"If you don't feel the sexual tension between Odysseus and Athena, I don't know what's going on in your life" is a very correct opinion and I'm glad it was voiced
No but honestly what you say at the end about whether you read good or bad books - the discussions youve had on books you like are BRILLIANT and i LOVE hearing you discuss what worked and didnt for you and how it all can still blance out into a nice experience!
I still think it would've been interesting if instead of Greek hero lineages (bc honestly they were blessed by the gods they wouldn't want to take them down) it was lineages of those people screwed over by the gods then again it wouldn't be something Zeus would do given how many people whose lives he ruined
My first thought was that rather than literal bloodlines, you could have clans based on idolizing a certain hero and their core skill/strategy - raw strength for Herakles, cleverness for Odysseus, maybe invention or preparation for Daedalus, leadership for Jason, speed from Atalanta and so on. Of course, no one should ever trust what someone in the Odysseus clan says, but the Odyssians know that...
i love watching videos made by smart and creative people about books that are bad or not very good because they always have much better ideas for the plot and characters and world building. it’s so much better of an experience then reading the bad book itself and it makes me wish the books were written that way.
Read a Colleen Hoover book! They’re almost all incredibly bad, and would be beneficial to the channel in terms of views, as the normcore queen outsold the bible in 2022. Some of my least favourite books are November 9, Ugly Love and Reminders of him
I thought the story was going to go somewhere else. Castor’s dying. If he kills a god then he becomes ‘immortal,’ but he’s too weak to do it on his own. And there’s a deadline to his death and won’t make it another 7 years for the next hunt. The two work together to ensure that Castor can deal the killing blow. Sure, he’ll be hunted every 7 years and they’ll be enemies, but at least he’s alive for now. Maybe she has to make a decision for her own personal revenge rage or ensuring Castor can live on.
"a character that the author is overly invested in beyond their scope as an interesting character" I've seen the term Creator's Pet on TV Tropes that is kind of similar. At the very least that has the same basic idea of the writer's focus on that character being actively detrimental to the story, though Creator's Pet isn't just for books ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Ah yes. Another book using the greek aesthetic with no interest in actual greek culture ( modern or ancient ) a superficial understanding of the myths and somehow no actual greek representation of any kind ( aka non of the gods feel greek )
I just listened to the entire podcast, and I have to say, I love your conversation. You guys are always very thoughtful in your discussions! I like to listen to you guys while I draw and think about my own stories. As far as recommendations for Greek Mythology, The Song of Achilles and Circe by Madeline Miller are my two favorites. I would also love to hear your opinions on The Secret History by Donna Tart, If We We’re Villains by M. L. Rio. Piranesi by Susana Clark is also amazing. If you’re willing to do horror, 13 Storeys by Jonathan Sims.
Greeks refer to strong Greek women and men as "Spartan men/women" some times ("Σπαρτιάτης!", "Σπαρτιάτισσα!") so I think it fits, what the author put there. BUUUT I don't think we should give the author much credit either for anything, judging how badly she ignored everything Greek except Patriarchy. She guessed ONE cultural thing correctly, let's not make it a big deal 😂 Also, William, I think you meant to say "Greek Dark Ages" or "Bronze Age" for when the Trojan war happened? Because "ancient Greece" is a pretty big era, including many periods and even early Christianity. (Not to say that William isn't super knowledgeable! He had many great points!! I am just a history nerd and I want to relay stuff 😁) Guys, thank you for your service, aka for reading this book!
I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on The Bone Shard Daughter by Andrea Stewart. I’m currently on the sequel and while I really enjoyed the first one, I’m starting to have mixed feelings about the second… though I think that might be me developing a more critical eye after watching you. I think it definitely offers some unique ideas but I’m worried it’s now trying to be too big and losing sight of what made me enjoy the first one. Thanks for another great discussion!
Joining patron for sure to get one step closer to those close reading breakdowns! I haven't been able to listen to you guys in a couple months, and now I'm on a happy binge. I love how you guys breakdown these books into how and why different elements worked or didnt work, (especially when you go further into workshopping how it could've been fixed). As far as recommendations, I can whole heartedly recommend either Small God's, or Hogfather by Terry Pratchett. I dont know if you guys have heard of/read his work, but his writing is so funny and accessible yet poignant and layered. If you're not familiar, most of his books are set in the same fantasy universe, but many of his books can be read a la carte as stand alones. Small God's is my main recommendation. It's a satire on religion, it's institutions, followers, and effect on politics, all while being funny, and not arriving at easy answers. Hogfather I just have to throw in there as well, since it's my favorite of his books. Its about if that world's santa clauswent missing and Death took over, and it examines the role of belief in our lives (in general, not in a religious way). It's a christmas one though, and might not be a good one to read as a first intro to that world. Sorry for the long comment. 😅
Good book suggestion!!! The Cloud Roads by Martha Wells. I loved that whole series and the short stories. Wells does a great job of creating this whole unique society of lizard people. It’s the bees knees.
The title of the video made me think this book would be better than it turned out to be. It sounds like a cool concept done wrong. As always, this was a great review!
The Trials of Apollo by Rick Riordan handles the concept of a god as a fish out of water perfectly and this author could have had a better grasp of the idea with that knowledge. But why bother, right?
books in the last year that have really impressed me include Leviathan wakes (sci fi) and the Lies of Locke Lamore series and also House in the Cerulean Sea :D
I literally finished this book just a week ago -- Can't say if it's a good book, but I least I enjoy it (because I am a classics minor and I just happen to enjoy all ancient greek related content even if it's bad 😅)
I Know This Much Is True by Wally Lamb is one of my all-time favorite books! It was one of those that I read at a time when I really needed it, as far as helping me process my own trauma, and how I needed to change how I was dealing with it, especially my anger. I was a 24 year old biracial woman at the time, but I heavily identified with the MC. Should be known; trigger warning for mentions and displays of domestic violence, severe mental illness, and graphic sex scenes (1 that doesn't quite become assault as it stops before it actually happens but can be upsetting) and in general there's some pretty heavy stuff. Its not as depressing as A Little Life, but I've recommended it to friends who have said it made them feel down. But there is a happy ending! And "She's Come Undone" by Wally Lamb too! Many of the same trigger warnings as well. As for absolutely God awful books...anything by Colleen Hoover... It Ends With Us is probably the worst, but any by her will make you feel 100000% better about your own writing
A book I can find nothing good in is Buryoku by Aaron Oster but I listened to a review of Sweet Evil and the love interest makes Edward Cullen look like an absolute healthy gentleman
20:30 I mean Athena is goddess of wisdom and strategy. How is she so dumb. I had such a hard time reading this book. I wanted to claw my eyes out. 44:33 I come from Armenian family, and they too love Baklava. I love baklava and I could eat it all day if I could. And like Maria, I am surrounded by Armenian family members but I do not speak Armenian language. But I always blame it on the fact that I’m mixed racial. I’m half Armenian on my father’s side and half Azerbaijan on my mother’s side.
Aw, what happened to that catchy outro music? Also, I would seriously LOVE detailed breakdowns and analyses of what works about good writing from this channel.
Man this makes the Percy Jackson books look like well researched masterpieces (the more recent ones aren't terrible and the Apollo series actually does have that human/god buddy comedy dynamic. Probably my favorite take on Greek myth is, ironically, the Lore Olympus (web)comic because it's an interesting mix of ancient and modern and comedy and romance and mythology. The LO version of Athena would never put up with this 💩 😄
Something tells me that they, specially Maria, would despise Lore Olympus, because as soon as you are not distracted by the ever shifting plot, and stop thinking about it, the whole story falls apart. Also, Athena in LO is kind of dump, she barely did or said anything until 10 years skip, after the there is an end of the world treat, 5 of the 6 most powerful gods are down, and usurper is treating the status quo, and later she can't even be the supposed goddess of strategic war, so Persephone can be the insufferable Mary Sue she was destined to be and beat Kronos
All souls trilogy by Deborah Harkness please. Unless you already know it. Lot to talk about there. The only other good review of these books is a woman drinking wine and going: Why won't he f... his wife!? Which was hilarious. But now I'm looking for dept.
I second that! Read it ages ago and loved it the first time but then when i tried to reread a few years ago I just couldn't put up with Matthew's and Diana's drama lol
@@sabrinabeeart Thanks for the support. ❤ I love the overall storytelling. Very curious to see what Will and Maria think of it. Especially if they kind of rewrite it for a different audience.
godess of tactic, wisdom and not agressive wr and defender of cities :( Th worst is athna could be a character that is genetaly poitive and wants to defends cities, but she i reallydiapointed, and tried , but is disapointe in humanity and that and meolora being really bonding she reconsiders. , and sacriices herself, and thats what is the sacrifice. And she did cause the end of her houe accidently, is ashamed and i forgiven and , hell have meolora and athena be the couple.
The author was more concerned in making a terrible tween love story than a cool hungry games type book. The blurb of the book is more or less just the first chapter summed up
Would you believe me if I said her big post-apocalypse series that most people know her from is almost identical to that? More focused on the romance, except when she wants the main character to wallow over herself, to the point that the bits were there is actual plot are so few & far between that I honestly can't even recommend that series? Bracken found a niche for herself & went for it
@@BooksandBuns damn. I do believe you. Seeing this post upsets me because I actually managed to erase this book from my memory. Such a let down I love mythology so much and this books steps on it
Didn't watch the video yet, but I read Bracken's other books (Darkest Minds trilogy + the fourth book), & by the gods (not the Greek gods, mind you :p) was that a slog to get through. So much unnecessary thinking & feelings & inaction that were made even more boring through the main character being how she is, so much so that I don't think even a change of POV from first to third would've saved it. & the ending of the third book being so fucking rushed. Uuuugh! I didn't even finish the fourth book cause by that point I was just so weary of that series. So, if this book is anything like her other series, I can't fathom how you guys even got through that slog
I recommend the bartimaeus series by Jonathan stroud as a very good trilogy and a meh unnecessary prequel. As for popular books how about the shades of magic series by v e schwab? Read it way back when and hated it for its wasted potential. It also has a very stereotypical 'good at everything, stabby girl' protagonist who might be the most annoying character to ever read about. And tbh, I know it's low hanging fruit, but anything sjm gets the views.
I never knew I wanted to see a story with Athena sporting AK-47s until Maria suggested it! 😂And yeah it's really stupid/absurd to have a technophobe Athena when she was the goddess of wisdom, knowledge (she gave the olive tree to the Athenians, HUGE bloody thing for agriculture and TRADE) and patroness of things like weaving... on a freaking loom, which WAS advanced tech in the Ancient World. 🤦♀Like if you're gonna fuck around with mythology/ancient religions in your story please, for the love of gods (heh), do SOME research!
:( why cant that be a focus, the promise of gos having lost poer and being the underdogs and having to face their potential mortality :( I love deities having to struggl with the prospect of mortality. You can make it even a good romance with a good character arc, even highlander style. Like highlander is a death competition technically, but also akes it about characters and immortality and that. Athena i smart, ares is th impuslive agressve war, ad athena is the cunning tactical war. Yeah have athena at least being a leader of a big mercendary group wiith influence , and is smart and uses spy stuff agaist them and traps. Hell a romance with athena, could be interesting and saphic even. oh marias idea copuld even worked if th gods tried that, but on god secretly has a pact for safety with th hunters. and foils that all the time. Gos ight each other all the time indirectly, it would make sens and ruin the tamups with distrust. An why didnt they team her up, making her impuslive and a bit violent leaning but grows, mirroring athena, and she teams up with a wise smart caring guy.
Somehow, all of Bracken's romances are trash & the endings of her books are bad. At least this book & her main series that got a tv show adaptation, I dunno if she has any other books outside of that
I got two and a half hours in and couldn’t take it anymore. There was so much tell and exposition dumping and implausible motivations and plot holes. Also, it was boring and Lore should have knifed Athena the moment that bih opened her mouth.
Athena was credited for inventing many things, like the chariot and the plow, just to name a few. To make an inventor hate technology is a really weird choice.
I feel like she was meant to be spiteful about the world moving on without her, given how she valued her power so much.
"The gods are being hunted for thousands of years. This is the first time a god gets to hunt their hunters." is a much better concept than whatever the hell the true concept of this book is.
Another thing of note, that tells of the lack of research/chronological inconsistency of Bracken's research, is the ORIGIN of Medusa. In the original Classical/Ancient Greek legend, Medusa was BORN a Gorgon, along with her two sisters Stheno and Euryale. No transformation, but birthed from primordial gods. The myth about Medusa being a priestess of Athena/Minerva came from OVID, a Roman writer, who was known to be critical of the emperors, who if you know Roman history, typically were deified. As such, many people critical of the leadership would use the gods as stand-ins for the emperors.
The pop-culture narrative of Medusa being SA'd and thus being turned into a feminist icon of protection came much later. Which I should add is obviously okay, I mean, she was just a lady-monster chilling on her island before Perseus came along to wack off her head. #medusadidnothingwrong. Anyways, it always irks me that most people turn to the SA with Poseidon interpretation rather than the original, as later tellings are clouded by the socio-political environment they were in (not to say the OG was void of this, only the later ones were more obvious).
This could have been an interesting point, coinciding with what you guys said about myths and how cultures/times change them to fit a narrative. Athena (in Lore) could have baulked at Lore's accusatory question of why she punished Medusa for being a victim, and be like 'what do you mean? that was something humans made up to keep the gender inequalities', which could then be an avenue of exploration of how people (mainly the hunter clans) keep power within their ranks. I guess similar to how Zeus keeps the other gods under him with the hunt and so on.
(Don't get me started on Zeus being the neutral, and benevolent god in this book. Most of the conflicts in Greek mythology can be summed up in one sentence: 'Unfortunately, Zeus was horny'.)
ANYWAYS! Rant over, but a lovely video from you guys! Can't wait for more!
And hera cand punish him directly and has to defend the sanctity of marriage, because she is that god. But he is th king of gods.
And teus can be benevolent and good, just , can you stillhave him moody at least, and mention he grew , i guess, and made up with his wife wit hsome agreement .
I'd say that would've been stronger, but part of the thing to me was Medusa and Lore were both women screwed over by the system and left damaged from it.
I'd actually say as someone who has read a lot of ancient Greek and Roman texts, she did research it well and understood a lot of the underlying logic of it.
A Treasure Planet reference? María has my whole heart 🥺
So that moment where Lore confronts Athena about her legends that don't appear very feminist would've been a really interesting opportunity to have particular discussions about how our modern society doesn't understand the same poetic metaphors from back in the day. (I went to college for this kinda crap so...I'm unreasonably invested)
Now the story of Arachnie is an interesting case because we have a lot of evidence (based on letters and other writings by the attested author of the tale) to suggest that the author made the story up purely in a moment of depression and rage. No anecdotal experience, or some dream he had, or a local legend. Dude was in a terrible place, so he wanted to take his rage out on a god. Classic.
But the story of Medusa, now that is a completely different context, because we don't understand the metaphor of transformation in the same way the ancient Greeks did. When we think of transformation poetically, we think of a caterpillar becoming a butterfly, someone morphing into their grandest self, the old for the new, or perhaps just the natural stage of life and growing up. But for the ancient Greeks, transformation was a transgression against nature. To transform was to become something other than what you were naturally intended for. This motif is best expressed in stories like Medusa's, where a woman is divinely changed into something else after a sexual attack. This should not be understood as a punishment. It should be understood as a mercy. Because another thing we don't understand anymore is how the Greeks of the time saw transitions from girlhood into womanhood.
Today we think of a girl becoming a woman once she reaches the age of consent, that age depending on what country you live in. But for the ancient Greeks, a girl became a woman after her first sexual experience, regardless of her consent to that sexual experience. So sexual violence was perfectly acceptable, she'd be a woman now. So when Athena turns Medusa into a creature other than a human woman, she is essentially allowing Medusa to escape not only the violence, but the social transition of womanhood being forced onto her by the sexual violence. As such, Athena gives Medusa the power over her own personal, social, and bodily autonomy.
It's just unfortunate that this author didn't have a loser nerd like me going "um actually" while they were writing this, because that could've been an interesting theme to take the book in, or at least conversation to have, "How do you understand and contextualize these old myths." The book is called LORE after all.
"If you don't feel the sexual tension between Odysseus and Athena, I don't know what's going on in your life" is a very correct opinion and I'm glad it was voiced
No but honestly what you say at the end about whether you read good or bad books - the discussions youve had on books you like are BRILLIANT and i LOVE hearing you discuss what worked and didnt for you and how it all can still blance out into a nice experience!
UTT is much more nuanced than a lot of other review channels and that's why they're my favorite podcast!
I still think it would've been interesting if instead of Greek hero lineages (bc honestly they were blessed by the gods they wouldn't want to take them down) it was lineages of those people screwed over by the gods
then again it wouldn't be something Zeus would do given how many people whose lives he ruined
My first thought was that rather than literal bloodlines, you could have clans based on idolizing a certain hero and their core skill/strategy - raw strength for Herakles, cleverness for Odysseus, maybe invention or preparation for Daedalus, leadership for Jason, speed from Atalanta and so on. Of course, no one should ever trust what someone in the Odysseus clan says, but the Odyssians know that...
i love watching videos made by smart and creative people about books that are bad or not very good because they always have much better ideas for the plot and characters and world building. it’s so much better of an experience then reading the bad book itself and it makes me wish the books were written that way.
Read a Colleen Hoover book! They’re almost all incredibly bad, and would be beneficial to the channel in terms of views, as the normcore queen outsold the bible in 2022.
Some of my least favourite books are November 9, Ugly Love and Reminders of him
Yes! All of those plus The Invisible Life of Addie LaRue
Outsold the Bible? That’s whack. I’ve heard it begins with us is pretty bad too
@@pippaschroeder9660 I haven't read it, but I read many reviews, and even the general CoHo fans hate it..
@@RalinaEvin oh I meant it ends with us but I guess they are both bad
I just got Uprooted and Spinning Silver for Christmas as per your recommendation, and I'm looking forward to reading them. Love you guys!
I thought the story was going to go somewhere else. Castor’s dying. If he kills a god then he becomes ‘immortal,’ but he’s too weak to do it on his own. And there’s a deadline to his death and won’t make it another 7 years for the next hunt. The two work together to ensure that Castor can deal the killing blow. Sure, he’ll be hunted every 7 years and they’ll be enemies, but at least he’s alive for now. Maybe she has to make a decision for her own personal revenge rage or ensuring Castor can live on.
Besties I would literally cry tears of joy if you discussed six of crows
"a character that the author is overly invested in beyond their scope as an interesting character" I've seen the term Creator's Pet on TV Tropes that is kind of similar. At the very least that has the same basic idea of the writer's focus on that character being actively detrimental to the story, though Creator's Pet isn't just for books ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Athena would’ve definitely mastered chess. It has everything she needs.
Pokemon: Ancient Greek Mythology version. Gotta catch em all!
Ah yes. Another book using the greek aesthetic with no interest in actual greek culture ( modern or ancient ) a superficial understanding of the myths and somehow no actual greek representation of any kind ( aka non of the gods feel greek )
The problem sounds to me is the fact that it is every 7 years. 7 years? Things don't change that much in 7 years. 100 maybe but 7!!! Not likely.
I just listened to the entire podcast, and I have to say, I love your conversation. You guys are always very thoughtful in your discussions! I like to listen to you guys while I draw and think about my own stories.
As far as recommendations for Greek Mythology, The Song of Achilles and Circe by Madeline Miller are my two favorites.
I would also love to hear your opinions on The Secret History by Donna Tart, If We We’re Villains by M. L. Rio. Piranesi by Susana Clark is also amazing. If you’re willing to do horror, 13 Storeys by Jonathan Sims.
Stone blind is one of my favorite Greek mythology retellings
Greeks refer to strong Greek women and men as "Spartan men/women" some times ("Σπαρτιάτης!", "Σπαρτιάτισσα!") so I think it fits, what the author put there. BUUUT I don't think we should give the author much credit either for anything, judging how badly she ignored everything Greek except Patriarchy. She guessed ONE cultural thing correctly, let's not make it a big deal 😂
Also, William, I think you meant to say "Greek Dark Ages" or "Bronze Age" for when the Trojan war happened? Because "ancient Greece" is a pretty big era, including many periods and even early Christianity. (Not to say that William isn't super knowledgeable! He had many great points!! I am just a history nerd and I want to relay stuff 😁)
Guys, thank you for your service, aka for reading this book!
Ya'll should read "Legends and Lattes" by Travis Baldree!! It was such a fun read
I like a good "Meh" book that KNOWS it's "meh". I'm exhausted with these books that are hyped as great a fantastic book and they're just "eh"
Yep, still my favorite podcast. Keep it up!
I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on The Bone Shard Daughter by Andrea Stewart. I’m currently on the sequel and while I really enjoyed the first one, I’m starting to have mixed feelings about the second… though I think that might be me developing a more critical eye after watching you. I think it definitely offers some unique ideas but I’m worried it’s now trying to be too big and losing sight of what made me enjoy the first one. Thanks for another great discussion!
Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
Joining patron for sure to get one step closer to those close reading breakdowns! I haven't been able to listen to you guys in a couple months, and now I'm on a happy binge. I love how you guys breakdown these books into how and why different elements worked or didnt work, (especially when you go further into workshopping how it could've been fixed).
As far as recommendations, I can whole heartedly recommend either Small God's, or Hogfather by Terry Pratchett. I dont know if you guys have heard of/read his work, but his writing is so funny and accessible yet poignant and layered. If you're not familiar, most of his books are set in the same fantasy universe, but many of his books can be read a la carte as stand alones.
Small God's is my main recommendation. It's a satire on religion, it's institutions, followers, and effect on politics, all while being funny, and not arriving at easy answers.
Hogfather I just have to throw in there as well, since it's my favorite of his books. Its about if that world's santa clauswent missing and Death took over, and it examines the role of belief in our lives (in general, not in a religious way). It's a christmas one though, and might not be a good one to read as a first intro to that world.
Sorry for the long comment. 😅
As I see it, the "only one alive who can do x" trope is just the "one chosen by fate" trope done well.
Good book suggestion!!!
The Cloud Roads by Martha Wells. I loved that whole series and the short stories. Wells does a great job of creating this whole unique society of lizard people. It’s the bees knees.
The title of the video made me think this book would be better than it turned out to be. It sounds like a cool concept done wrong.
As always, this was a great review!
I suggest author's pet.
omg i never been this early! this is absolutely my favourite podcast hehe
pls do the raven boys by maggie stiefvater, i think you'll really enjoy it!
The Trials of Apollo by Rick Riordan handles the concept of a god as a fish out of water perfectly and this author could have had a better grasp of the idea with that knowledge. But why bother, right?
books in the last year that have really impressed me include Leviathan wakes (sci fi) and the Lies of Locke Lamore series and also House in the Cerulean Sea :D
I literally finished this book just a week ago -- Can't say if it's a good book, but I least I enjoy it (because I am a classics minor and I just happen to enjoy all ancient greek related content even if it's bad 😅)
Why are there snakes on the cover . Is Medusa in it
Based on the cover I honestly assumed it was a book ABOUT Medusa, not Percy Jackson Meets the Hunger Games 😄
I Know This Much Is True by Wally Lamb is one of my all-time favorite books! It was one of those that I read at a time when I really needed it, as far as helping me process my own trauma, and how I needed to change how I was dealing with it, especially my anger. I was a 24 year old biracial woman at the time, but I heavily identified with the MC.
Should be known; trigger warning for mentions and displays of domestic violence, severe mental illness, and graphic sex scenes (1 that doesn't quite become assault as it stops before it actually happens but can be upsetting) and in general there's some pretty heavy stuff. Its not as depressing as A Little Life, but I've recommended it to friends who have said it made them feel down. But there is a happy ending!
And "She's Come Undone" by Wally Lamb too! Many of the same trigger warnings as well.
As for absolutely God awful books...anything by Colleen Hoover... It Ends With Us is probably the worst, but any by her will make you feel 100000% better about your own writing
“Zeus wanted to punish the others for hurting humans” fake.
My absolute favorite book series is the Knight and Rogue series by Hilari Bell
A book I can find nothing good in is Buryoku by Aaron Oster but I listened to a review of Sweet Evil and the love interest makes Edward Cullen look like an absolute healthy gentleman
Did they ever read Circe ??? I saw the Song of Achilles episode
Rick Riordan seemed to tackle Gods a lot better 👍
20:30 I mean Athena is goddess of wisdom and strategy. How is she so dumb. I had such a hard time reading this book. I wanted to claw my eyes out.
44:33 I come from Armenian family, and they too love Baklava. I love baklava and I could eat it all day if I could. And like Maria, I am surrounded by Armenian family members but I do not speak Armenian language. But I always blame it on the fact that I’m mixed racial. I’m half Armenian on my father’s side and half Azerbaijan on my mother’s side.
Aw, what happened to that catchy outro music?
Also, I would seriously LOVE detailed breakdowns and analyses of what works about good writing from this channel.
I think you guys should read Middlegame by Seanan McGuire. It's one of my favorite books of all time but it's SO divisive
Deity Hunger Games?
The house of scorpion
Let’s do Memnoch the Devil 😁😈
43:05
I remember I SUFFERED through this book because I didn't DNF back then. I don't remember anything about this book other than it was horrible!
Man this makes the Percy Jackson books look like well researched masterpieces (the more recent ones aren't terrible and the Apollo series actually does have that human/god buddy comedy dynamic. Probably my favorite take on Greek myth is, ironically, the Lore Olympus (web)comic because it's an interesting mix of ancient and modern and comedy and romance and mythology. The LO version of Athena would never put up with this 💩 😄
I mean its obviously taking crative freedom, but he cares about th myths.
Something tells me that they, specially Maria, would despise Lore Olympus, because as soon as you are not distracted by the ever shifting plot, and stop thinking about it, the whole story falls apart.
Also, Athena in LO is kind of dump, she barely did or said anything until 10 years skip, after the there is an end of the world treat, 5 of the 6 most powerful gods are down, and usurper is treating the status quo, and later she can't even be the supposed goddess of strategic war, so Persephone can be the insufferable Mary Sue she was destined to be and beat Kronos
All souls trilogy by Deborah Harkness please. Unless you already know it. Lot to talk about there.
The only other good review of these books is a woman drinking wine and going: Why won't he f... his wife!?
Which was hilarious. But now I'm looking for dept.
I second that! Read it ages ago and loved it the first time but then when i tried to reread a few years ago I just couldn't put up with Matthew's and Diana's drama lol
@@sabrinabeeart Thanks for the support. ❤
I love the overall storytelling. Very curious to see what Will and Maria think of it. Especially if they kind of rewrite it for a different audience.
@@sabrinabeeart You've seen the tv show too i presume. 😊
@@malikapollard3618 no unfortunately. We don't have the streaming service it was on in my country...and I'm not really into pirating
@@sabrinabeeart I think pirating has evolved. Its now allowed and they make a lot of money that way too. I could be wrong. Not an expert.
godess of tactic, wisdom and not agressive wr and defender of cities :(
Th worst is athna could be a character that is genetaly poitive and wants to defends cities, but she i reallydiapointed, and tried , but is disapointe in humanity and that and meolora being really bonding she reconsiders. , and sacriices herself, and thats what is the sacrifice. And she did cause the end of her houe accidently, is ashamed and i forgiven and , hell have meolora and athena be the couple.
🔫 to begin with. You know it's gonna be a good day 🤠
The author was more concerned in making a terrible tween love story than a cool hungry games type book. The blurb of the book is more or less just the first chapter summed up
Would you believe me if I said her big post-apocalypse series that most people know her from is almost identical to that? More focused on the romance, except when she wants the main character to wallow over herself, to the point that the bits were there is actual plot are so few & far between that I honestly can't even recommend that series? Bracken found a niche for herself & went for it
@@BooksandBuns damn. I do believe you. Seeing this post upsets me because I actually managed to erase this book from my memory. Such a let down I love mythology so much and this books steps on it
Didn't watch the video yet, but I read Bracken's other books (Darkest Minds trilogy + the fourth book), & by the gods (not the Greek gods, mind you :p) was that a slog to get through. So much unnecessary thinking & feelings & inaction that were made even more boring through the main character being how she is, so much so that I don't think even a change of POV from first to third would've saved it. & the ending of the third book being so fucking rushed. Uuuugh! I didn't even finish the fourth book cause by that point I was just so weary of that series. So, if this book is anything like her other series, I can't fathom how you guys even got through that slog
I recommend the bartimaeus series by Jonathan stroud as a very good trilogy and a meh unnecessary prequel. As for popular books how about the shades of magic series by v e schwab? Read it way back when and hated it for its wasted potential. It also has a very stereotypical 'good at everything, stabby girl' protagonist who might be the most annoying character to ever read about. And tbh, I know it's low hanging fruit, but anything sjm gets the views.
I never knew I wanted to see a story with Athena sporting AK-47s until Maria suggested it! 😂And yeah it's really stupid/absurd to have a technophobe Athena when she was the goddess of wisdom, knowledge (she gave the olive tree to the Athenians, HUGE bloody thing for agriculture and TRADE) and patroness of things like weaving... on a freaking loom, which WAS advanced tech in the Ancient World. 🤦♀Like if you're gonna fuck around with mythology/ancient religions in your story please, for the love of gods (heh), do SOME research!
:( why cant that be a focus, the promise of gos having lost poer and being the underdogs and having to face their potential mortality :( I love deities having to struggl with the prospect of mortality. You can make it even a good romance with a good character arc, even highlander style.
Like highlander is a death competition technically, but also akes it about characters and immortality and that.
Athena i smart, ares is th impuslive agressve war, ad athena is the cunning tactical war.
Yeah have athena at least being a leader of a big mercendary group wiith influence , and is smart and uses spy stuff agaist them and traps.
Hell a romance with athena, could be interesting and saphic even.
oh marias idea copuld even worked if th gods tried that, but on god secretly has a pact for safety with th hunters. and foils that all the time. Gos ight each other all the time indirectly, it would make sens and ruin the tamups with distrust.
An why didnt they team her up, making her impuslive and a bit violent leaning but grows, mirroring athena, and she teams up with a wise smart caring guy.
The romance in this was trash, I didn’t like the ending either. Athena was an asshole🙃 I’m SUPER into Greek mythology and was disappointed
Somehow, all of Bracken's romances are trash & the endings of her books are bad. At least this book & her main series that got a tv show adaptation, I dunno if she has any other books outside of that
I got two and a half hours in and couldn’t take it anymore. There was so much tell and exposition dumping and implausible motivations and plot holes. Also, it was boring and Lore should have knifed Athena the moment that bih opened her mouth.