Fantastic podcast as always LBQ , Albert & David are doing a great job with this and also restoring faith in the police by doing so even though they are retired which speaks louder volumes. Talking of loud volumes I first met the" noise" in Germany while on secondment , I can't remember what outfit he was with but do remember falling out with him due to his attitude. I retired from the Royal Marines through injury in 2009. If it helps any, the mouth never received any CQB or breech entry training using a shotgun so I honestly doubt his saying he shot them using a shotgun is b.llox.
Thank you for asking my questions Lee & thank you for the in depth answers Dave and Albert. Much appreciated and as always, thank you for making these videos gentlemen and I fully back and support your efforts and hope you crack this case!
Brian Richardson ( Rolfe ) on his UA-cam channel only within the last few weeks at the most claims he does want to speak to David & Albert , maybe when David previously approached him he didn't want to get involved. He's certainly changed his mind & definitely would now. Hopefully he see this interview and does speak. As usual another brilliant liquid bullet & TM eye interview.
We spoke to Brian very early on but we do not disclose who we have interviewed or what they say unless the person themselves agrees or comes forward. 80% of what we have been told has never been disclosed to ensure confidentiality. It has been submitted to the CCRC in a redacted format.
Great video. The reason this case continues to remain in the public eye is because of all the questions raised, so many of which should have been dealt with by the police at the time.
Nichols statement is absurd and the fact the jury believed it is astonishing and i believe testament to how poor the defence team were. There summing up to the jury of the statement from nichols should have been more than adequate for a not guilty. A scrap car that was registered to Nichols that they tried and failed to put false plates on but thought sod it well go through with a triple murder regardless. 3 times into the top of the lane and theres no witnesses and no tyre tracks left by the 4 different brands of tyres and no oil from the leaking gearbox. No dna evidence in the passat. No dna in the range rover. No foot prints the size of steeles and whomes going up or down the lane. His earlier statements when he mentions the Mulloch brothers shows he was obviously being coached. I could go on and on but its gone 1am and im jiggered.
And leah betts old man just happened to be giving a talk as he was one of the suspects he also conveniently had his guns taken off him a few weeks before. Im sure he didnt do it but it all looks so well orchestrated and polished.
Dave is spot on about the tracker on The Range Rover and that's why they knew before Theobald and Jiggins phoned it in. They left it so a member of the public would find them and call it in leaving them off the hook for lack of surveillance. Also that's why Dibley had the Range Rover removed from the scene, because he knew and wanted the tracker removed. The excuse that there wasn't room to do forensics etc is a red herring. First of all there was enough room for a hit man to open the offside backdoor with a pump action shotgun and shoot them dead with accuracy very quickly. Secondly any surrounding growth could have been carefully cut back to make room for a full investigation. Thirdly if you look at the overhead picture you can see there is plenty of room on the offside for investigations to take place as the bushes where Whomes supposedly hid are front of the Range Rover.
Who would gun someone down in that manor at that time in the afternoon during rush hour traffic using a car that is worth less then my shirt and who would use dn as a getaway driver he had brains of a rocking horse
Yea! Totally agree. Would be completely brain dead to do the hit at that time and the way DN Said. Jasper's statement makes way more sense. Where he dropped the hitman out of sight through the fields. A real pro hit.
@@johnjoyce1958 But his claim that the hit took place around midnite doesn't add up because all phone calls to and from Tate Tucker Rolfe phones stop around 7 pm.
@@barrybarnes96 that's all part of the redacted evidence by corrupt Police. There were even calls just before the one to Sarah Saunders by a high profile criminal that were omitted around 6.40pm in the evidence. TMI has proof of that. I have no doubt that there is evidence in the 160 boxes that were held back from the defence that can prove they were alive after 7pm that night. The problem is the police won't allow anyone to review this evidence. Not even an independent review board. So what we're left with is they were shot just before 7pm with no sightings of any of what DN says happened, against a Range Rover with no Ice snow on it which scientifically cannot be possible if they were shot that early. They can talk all they like about the canopy preventing frosting but everyone knows that's a ruse. I used to park my car under a canopy in winter and it always frosted hard overnight. So they were shot much later after the dew fall. I believe the Jasper story is true and Mr. D tried to take Jasper out shortly afterwards but he survived it. That to me speaks volumes.
If MS was sworn in on the Bible, then he should have thrown the book back at them.... Deuteronomy 19:15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.
It must be very frustrating on the inside of this case . Especially when theres a certain Bum who wants to keep shutting things down . What is he hiding ? Is he more involved than hes let on and why on earth does he want to keep Mick inside for ? Micks served his scentece and an old man now , he is no threat so let him go .
@TheSavagederek Yep, it's a sad tragic outrage imo, a travesty in any language. Fkin pigs n grasses conspiring to annihilate this man mentally physically financially the whole 9, heartbreaking actually, BOM is a disgusting bastard of a man, who imo knows what happened n could well be the shooter, he's a trained killer after all, that's a fact. Another fact being that HE was in the Rettendon locality that night!!! Couldn't make it up could ya?? Essex police n Nicholls could though!
David thank you for answering my question about Micks release I have to agree with you someone is most definitely worried that Mick will talk and also they have to be high enough up somewhere with the power to be able to block his release and also able to stop both Mick & Jack talking.
The TM eye team are convinced the billy Jasper statement about the murders is correct but why doesn't the question get asked about why the three weren't seen after 7pm no sightings at all nor did they make the dinner booking by Tony who even changed it from 4-6 people that night which the girlfriends were all invited and were waiting? and why no calls were made or excepted on the mobile phones they had on them after 7pm even tho Tony's girlfriend started to leave messages about being ready for the meal but didn't get a reply ???
From an earlier post but deals with a question raised in the comments section if the recent Liquid Bullet Productionz podcast about what TTR were doing between 18.48 and midnight: “There have been a series of questions recently about why there were no sightings of the victims post 18.59. In order to give some clarity please read the following. Sighting 1 - Stuart Armstrong gave evidence at trial that Rolfe was in The Carpenters Arms PH after 8pm with another man on the night of the Murders. Armstrong was cross examined and when pressed said he could not be sure if it was the Tuesday or Wednesday. Rolfe was not in that pub on the Tuesday. Sighting 2 - A new witness corroborates the original evidence of Armstrong. (Not in the public domain). Sighting 3 - Three witnesses were involved in a road rage incident with the victims and the Range Rover at about 11.30pm on the night of the 6th December 1995. Essex police were told but never took a statement. Years later they came forward again and the CCRC took new statements. The CCRC then incredibly ignored that evidence. Their evidence is significant and they are adamant it was the victims. They saw them from less than 5 yards away in the Range Rover when they pulled alongside. They have made witness statements and are prepared to give evidence of their sighting. Sighting 4 - There is a recorded sighting by the landlady of The Fortune of War PH after 8pm. Essex police knew but never followed up or took a staments. Sadly she is now deceased. The Action is definitive. Sighting 5/6 - There were also two separate sightings in The Orsett Cock PH on 6th December 1995, the timings are not clear. Again Essex police were aware but never followed up or took statements. Sighting 7 - The Daily Star reporter spoke to a ‘regular’ at The Orsett Cock PH who stated that they were in there after 7pm. That was never followed up. Sighting 8 - There is an Action to trace a Dennis Wise who called the incident room stating he saw them after 7pm. Again never followed up. Sighting 8 - The reporter Jo Ann Goodwin had a witness, details known to her, called Ian who also saw Tate after 7pm. Add to that the evidence of Jasper and the corroborating new witnesses. The telephone data for Pat Tate was deliberately time limited to 18.44 (Version 2), used in court. There is an earlier full version 1 that has never been disclosed. Essex police refuse to disclose it. Tate did receive calls after 18.59. Essex police are telling lies when they state there were no calls to Tate’s phone post 18.59. Tuckers phone would not record calls received and answered. There was 3rd mobile recovered according to the team that examined the phones. This has never been disclosed. Likely Rolfe’s missing mobile. We know from a witness that Rolfe was suing his mobile after 8pm in the car park of The Carpenters Arms PH. Please also remember that Tate likely collected the VW Polo and delivered it as it was used early the following day. Plenty of sightings. Essex police chose not to investigate them. I hope this assists.
Another great Q & A well done .Although struggling with the premise that they were murdered after midnight. All phone contact ceases after 19ish . What scenario would have had to play out for 5 hours to make that theory plausible. It just seems far to unrealistic.
Cause they were called after 19:00. The cover up just adjusted the messages. How many other cases have messages released to the public. People did not find out they died untill the following day so so you really believe no one called them after 19:00
I meant all outgoing contact ceased after that time 19ish , as there were numerous voice messages left after that time but none of them were answered. DM is suggesting that it’s less likely they got killed at 19ish due to the owners not hearing the gunshots, but not much else supporting that . Whereas if they didn’t get shot at 19, where were they as no evidence to suggest they were alive at this time . And surely the farmers could have been mistaken with a local gun club in the area .
@@rg5107 There was evidence after 19:00 TMI said in the question and answers the Rolf was seen in the Wheatsheaf pub at 8:15 and also 3 seperate witnesses I identified them in the RR around 23:15 by the Turnpike. They also stated most likely they were all using burner phones. Pat Tate definitely had a burner phone and there is most likely evidence of this in the 115 boxes of more evidence that Essex police will not let TMI see or has been put in the public domain or used at the trial.
@@lynussss It would prove Mick Steel and Jack Whomes did not do it as there cell phone data would show they were not in the area. There cell phone data shows they were in the area 17:30/18:15
The "noisy individual's" biggest mistake was very early on in the case publicly voicing (at the time, valid) scepticism that Steele and Whomes were guilty of the murders, only to completely flip 180 and end up the only known associate still protesting their guilt to this day. The only positive is just what a painful liability he must continue to be for the corrupt Essex police force while they are seemingly powerless to drop him as an informant. Icarus syndrome anyone.
Mobile phone technology was in its infancy at the time. If its proved to be unreliable there must be hundreds of people in prison who would have to be released.
Jasper Mr D is the only scenario that makes sense. Billy's intricate details are not something he could have made up. And the fact it was so soon after the murders too
@davehillary8773 Yes, exactly, plus they tried to murder jasper at the first opportunity, 2 bullets to the head, and he survived . Why would they do that to him if it wasn't true
Couple of things to consider: >Jasper is a compulsive liar >Daren’s account was corroborated in to many areas to be false >Whomes put himself in the vicinity at the time > Steele alibi didn’t show up in court > Whomes uncle alibi was undermined >they had a good reason/motive
shut up bernard or adrian,lol,here u are yet again,why are you so worried?If Jasper was lying how the hell did he manage to get to rectory lane??? Your efforts are no better than adrians half-arsed attempts at being a peado hunter,laughable.
Thank you. What evidence do you have that Jasper was a compulsive liar please ? Daren’s account is NOT corroborated at all. Far from it. Can you point out why you believe that ? Correct Whomes was in Rettendon at around the time Nicholls (and ONLY Nicholls), claims they were murdered 18.48-18.59, BUT they were not killed then. They were murdered after midnight. Steele, Whomes and even Nicholls were all tucked up at home in bed. Witnesses did turn up to support Steele’s alibi. The petrol receipt is very important. The evidence about the Uncle’s door has been explained. Again you are not correct. Misinformation. What was the motive ? Nicholls lied. The poor cannabis was Nicholls parcel. Again you are not correct. Anything else ?
@@TMEYEMLB Thank you for another great video🙏 > Jasper was a prolific burglar, robber, thief. How do you know he was t paid for his story? He was going away anyway at the time. > Darren’s story corroborated by phone call evidence, Whomes placing himself in Rettendin at the time, calls stopped being taken by the firm sat just before 7pm, families accounts > Steele key alibi didn’t show up to corroborate his account at trial. Conveniently to stressed to attend. > Petrol receipt couldn’t be corroborated >Whomes note to uncle story undermined as an alibi > Pat and the firm were making serious threats giving a motive for them being done
White Sierra seen night before and early morning was the drug squad !!!!! They were fully aware what was happening that night! That is why rolph didn't get pulled over the night before when the drug squad was told he had drugs and gun in car they left it. Watch the podcast with his brother Liam tuffs would love to know your thoughts on it
You make a very valid point,however what I believe the police where aware that a big drug deal is going to take place involving the 3 and the police wanted them put away for a long time because of the Leah Betts .What the police didn’t realise it was a double cross and a lure to kill them
I think it’s obvious that they are now 100% sure they know the motive the killer and everyone else connected with this case and I hope there are lots of ex police fearing for their pension now
Why does Mick have to be locked up to keep his mouth shut? If he is already almost served his sentence and punishment what are they afraid of him talking apart from saying always that he's innocent. This seems like something fishy going on here and corruption is all behind this otherwise let him talk, you can't punish someone with 25 years and at same time forbid them to talk of anything that they wanna say. Gestapo bussiness going on here.
😉 Back in the day long before the murders planes were dropping all over the place i remember when i was 17 hearing about a drop near a big house close by.
Sorry guys love this.... 1st time watcher however have taken a keen interest in this case over the years! I have spent many of hours on the road as a HGV driver combing over this case via various channels. A real great insight from crimescene2thecourtroom. Who are we talking about when we say the noisy one? Bernard?
Excellent work (podcast) as always. Gripping! A Q for David and Albert. So, I just asked a highly experienced criminal defence lawyer a question, with regard to 120 boxes of evidence in the stores at Essex Police that they refuse to hand over. Why has Steeles defence NOT made an application to a court for the boxes of evidence? A Judge would want to hear a valid excuse from Essex Police as to why they refuse to hand over evidence to the defence. They cannot just say NO!
@@D-No974completely wrong. The emails between senior Essex officer and TM Eye have been published and evidence the existence of the boxes. All posted on the Facebook site.
@@D-No974 Essex Police are in possession of a vast amount of material that would undoubtedly undermine the convictions of Michael Steele and Jack Whomes. Former Detective Chief Superintendent Kevin Macey admitted in an email sent on 15th June 2020 that 124 crates of undisclosed material was being held by Essex police. Nothing like that amount of material has been disclosed to the Defence for the trial, The Court of Appeal or any proceedings since. The Defence solicitors requested access. It was refused. TM Eye requested supervised access. The response from Detective Superintendent Cronin dated 11th September 2020 is shown below. Essex police have broken the disclosure rules and effectively the Law. What are they trying to hide ? The Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC) were made aware of this failure in disclosure but have sided with Essex police. Disclosure Rules Essex police had and still have a duty to disclose relevant material. This duty to disclose is a continuous one. Therefore, if at any time before the accused has been acquitted or convicted of the alleged offence, the prosecutor feels there is material which might undermine their case, or assist that of the defendant, that material must be disclosed. Criminal Procedure and Investigations Act 1996 (CPIA 1996) (as amended by the Criminal Justice Act 2003). Post-conviction disclosure The interests of justice will mean that where material comes to light after the conclusion of the proceedings that might cast doubt upon the safety of the conviction, there is a duty to consider disclosure. Any such material should be escalated in accordance with local arrangements. The principle was considered and the importance of finality in criminal proceedings was reaffirmed in Nunn v the Chief Constable of Suffolk Constabulary and the Crown Prosecution Service (Interested Party) [2012] EWHC 1186 Admin.
Happens to me to always seems to be a controversial channel that’s saying something that the powers at be would rather be buried 🤷♂️ coincidence I don’t no
Mick Steele must have been more concerned about the drug charges than the murder charge. He'd have assumed the murder charges were thrown in to put pressure on him. If he'd have pleaded guilty to the drugs I believe he wouldn't have been convicted of the murders.
The noisy person was in Rettendon the night of the murders. That's why he was a suspect and was approached the next day by the Police at a London Tube as a suspect.
Not quite correct. He was called by an Essex detective before 10am. Believed to have been his handler. It is only his word that he was in Rettendon. He was never arrested or interviewed for either the death of Leah Betts or the Murders, primarily because he was an informant and witness against Packman.
Darren & Dean & Two Bent Police Officers. darren was the drug baron, he was the lead role in all this. when they went to stones cafe Darren was the one on the money, the Exchange Rate. Guilders back to Pounds,( English Sterling). Doing all the driving with the drugs in the car, Like he was protecting the drugs from Mick & Jack.
I do have a question tho, If they were shot whilst in the RR, which does seem the most logical to me. Why was the front windscreen still intact? I mean according to the autopsy report the shotgun blast to the back of Rolfe’s head was so close it caused flame burn to near the entrance wound and the direction of the shot exiting trajectory surely would off take the screen out? Or damage to the dash. I mean only one window in the whole RR was damaged, plus no other damage can be seen from such close range pump action shotgun action?
Three bodies in a vehicle at the end of the lane opposite a locked gate Why was they there? For drugs?if so was any cash or weapons found? Was they there to look for a landing site for a small aircraft? Nether of the three we're pilots or had any aviation experience. Did the killer or killer's know about the shooting club a short distance away? And apparently the shooting club only shoot on Wednesday, did the killer know this ? And if so what better cover could you have for a shooting other than a shooting club .
Well mick was a pilot so the idea is he was flying drugs in for another gang got them down the lane to show them we’re he was going to land the plane then they could Rob it with the gun they got of bowman then split the proceeds between them all
The guy with the friendship with Essex police, was he the same one who moved his family into a hotel the day of the murders...funny how no enquiry made on anything thats close to the truth
Paul had a shotgun and when police went to his house to talk to him he said the shotgun went missing a week before the killings and never reported the burglary is that true as the police have never spoke about it ?
1:24:00 '...there is no information that ties Mick Steele to the murders until Nicholls was arrested...' Yes, there was. Donna Jaggers made 3 statements in March. One about general stuff, one about Mick Bowman and one about Mick the pilot (Mick Steele).... Donna made TV appearances and appeals, in the days after. She was talking to the Police from the 7th-8th onwards. They questioned Sarah on the 8th, the Betts' on the 8th and Barry Dorman was arrested on the 8th interviewed on the 9th. They were all talking. I think they've got the wrong Mick. Bowman was meeting them that night to cut the coke, he was there waiting for/with them, John McCarthy was on stand by round the corner to buy the stuff. Have you thought of Bowman and McCarthy that did it?
We were aware of his evidence. We spoke to Brian a long while ago and he was honest about his involvement. We agreed to keep it confidential. He has now come forward and made it public. We ensure strict confidentiality for everyone who talks to us. Much of what we know cannot be made public for that very reason.
Hi guys, when I watched the live of this upload someone asked on the live chat if one of the people involved had a white xr3i convertible, after watching a few other videos I discovered that someone who was close to deceased gang did have a while ford xr3i convertible.😅
“Jaspers police interview was poor” (34.07)…. You’re not joking….the detectives sounded like they’d never interviewed anyone before! From my own experiences being interviewed it was a bizarre interview to listen to in terms of the police questions and their attitude….
Are these 2 guys not worried? For 1 these are ex police going against other police officers, 2 They could end up getting other criminals convicted over a triple murders what happened over 20years ago, if mick and jack didn't do it the murderer could've died by now.
No one will ever get convicted now. Too much evidence has been lost or covered up by Essex police. The only motive is to get justice for Steele and Whomes. It is important that the truth and justice prevail.
Don’t understand the dump site theory . If they were killed elsewhere how was the car moved to the lane with 3 dead bodies in it blood and blown out windows without any one noticing . If the bodies were put in the vehicle afterwards you would need a lot of men to shift them Tate was 20 stone . And if it was on a car recovery vehicle jack whomes had one and was in the area
Tate, Tucker and Rolf were in there own vehicle, dressed in light casual clothes and unarmed. They clearly weren't intending anything dodgy. Had to be reconnaissance for a plane landing site.
I find it more realistic where the local farmer says he heard several shots around midnight,more than,any of the guys on the criminal periphery,apart from Billy jasper.
Why has no one asked the question about BOM and the recording of John Wholmes confessing to how the shootings went down on the night, I don't think that was edited as John seems to say.. He shouldn't have opened his mouth about anything if he knew, and especially NOT to someone who writes books
It was edited. Likewise he has done the same with other recordings including when he manufactured and manipulated the Jasper recording. He has consistently manipulated and manufactured evidence throughout. The question is why ?
@@TMEYEMLB The fact he wants to keep an 81 yr old locked up , who has completed his sentence , and wants Jack back inside , is very bizarre . He wasn't friends with Tucker , Tate and Rolfe by the time of the murders and as far as I know , he's not friends with any of their family members , Brian hates him with a passion . Is he scared if they are cleared , that they will implicate him in some way ? He was in the vicinity that night , so was maybe somehow involved . He was ex army so knew firearms . Who knows , but it's weird he wants Mick kept in there .
@@TMEYEMLB if it was edited could U please make a video showing where it is edited as it's John Wholmes voice, the music in the back ground doesn't change the and John basically tells exactly how it goes down on that night of the murders.. if he edited it why hasnt BOM being sued.. Also John has refused a lie detector, I know they aren't 100% but its something and refusing it in my mind makes him look like hes lying saying its edited..
@@markgarrett3077spot on mark…John Whomes knew his brother was talked into it by Steele. I can only think these 2 ex coppers are trying to get publicity for their firm as they seem to have swallowed completely the Jasper and the robbery scenario that was fed to them by Calston.
So latest revelations to me: Jaggers had a machine gun and 94/95 rounds of ammunition; Leah Betts might also be connected? Any more? There must be. Back to listening
Ive been interested in this turn out since it happened,...we know the old bill do what they want when they can ...we know the wrong guys went jail....unfortunately the person who did it is dead now,...Ellis...police were disgusting.
Albert thank you for answering my question about the 19.05 call from MS landline. I couldn’t find Jackie’s statement published anywhere so thanks for clarifying the portion regarding Bill Walker and MS mum not being home at the start of the call. Could you comment on the calls from the Sorrel Horse Pub made the afternoon of the murders namely to TT which the prosecution state was to organise the meeting later that night. That payphone then rang the payphone at Timberlogg Lane which would either be for PT or TT who was at the carpet shop round the corner paying his bill at that time. The most important part is that 20 minutes after those calls it then rang Nicholl’s mobile. I can find no mention of Nicholl’s ever being questioned by police or in court as to who made that call to him from the Sorrell Horse PH. (I appreciate the locality to JW workplace) but I can’t find that crucial question ever being put to DN. Was there also ever any discipline charges against the officers who talked the pizza manager out of making a complaint of assault against PT the night before, which would have breached his licence conditions or the officers who stopped CR the afternoon of the murders and could have arranged for him to be arrested by an officer in uniform for disqualified driving, and seized the RR. If either of these things had happened then it would have prevented the murders that night.
@@albertpatrick422 Thanks for your replies Albert. Another one of you could please answer the following: In Jaspers first tape recorded interview he states that he didn’t arrive at the scene and drop the gunman off until 1.30/1.45 am. At what stage did this change to “he arrived just after midnight” ? I appreciate the farmer said that he heard a fuselage of shots at midnight but on Jaspers own admissions he wasn’t there until at least 90 minutes later.
@@garbo5001 Afternoon will have to read Jaspers account again to understand if there was a change in his timing. I have already stated there are a lot more questions i have for Billy Jasper but his current whereabouts are unknown to myself and David. He knows we would like to talk to him. Albert
Hi, next question for the next episode, have you guys got in touch with Pat Tate’s ex partner Sarah or spoke to her son Jordan at all, if so how are they doing in life
Everyone loves a conspiracy and I do think there is more to this than meets the eye, but the problem of zero sightings of collecting/transporting the broken down Passat has always troubled me. TM Eye did a good politicians job of answering without admitting they have nothing but with all the reports of white cars, other RRs yet not 1 report of someone loading a car on what would have been just off the busiest road in Essex at the busiest time outside a pub! . Nor any reports of seeing a passat being towed or on a trailer all the way back to braintree. It would stick out to me more than all the other reports of cars... Thanks to the person who asked that Q
jack and mickey done it 1000% should they have been convicted NO as darren knew why he was their and why he was coming back to get them so he was allowed to lie by the police to convict 2 instead of trying for the 3
@NIGHTS.ARE.DARK1 not a chance they did it, you do realise it takes a certain kind of person to plan and kill 3 men in that situation. Mick and Jack and 99% of people are not capable of this kind of violence.
@@EdwardCLinlol a certain type of man🤣ms and jw done it crime in the 90,s often ended in shotgun blasts.all these vids these ex cops are doing is pointless it was all looked at in court years ago and the jury found them guilty not a gang of out of work cops,30 years ago,there dead and its been done and dusted for a long time,pat tate done that to any major firm he wood get splattered,just it was easier work back then,shame nicholls turned grass
Has Micky Steele never given any indication as to who or what he thinks happened??? Obviously, you won't divulge the details, I just can't believe he hasn't said something of some significance just between the 2 of you?
Jasper probably heard the shots and just decided to deny that bit. So as far as he was concerned it was just another dope deal. He was admitting to enough as it was.
Can I ask you why ? Darren Nicholls lied. That is a fact. What other evidence do you think there is that puts ‘beyond reasonable doubt’ that Steele or Whomes were involved. Interested to know ?
Can I ask these guys a couple of questions? In the week leading up to the murders tucker Tate and Rolfe robbed some dealers in London where shots were fired is this true and do they have any info on this as I heard there was shots in there car? Also regarding the workers of the wheatsheaf pub apparently being out front the night of the murders has any been questioned by Dave or Albert as if they see a recovered vehicle ?
They allegedly robbed a ‘safe house’ of a well known Canning town crime group. It was a flat above The Woodgrange pub in Southend. Shots were fired and police did attend after they left. We have so far been unable to trace staff at The Wheatsheaf but we do have several leads.
Mr D…. Is this the man referred to in Jaspers statement or is it the man referred to (several times) in the Tiberius report linked to the Peakcock gym and labelled as an “enforcer”? Two different names….both “D”…..is it actually same individual??
'Mr D' a very dangerous individual from Wanstead is the sole reason why Albert and Patrick are being frustrated by Essex Police not allowing them to see more evidence and to keep Michael Steele behind bars, Mr D the reason why Carlton was in fear for his life after the murders and why he and others will not speak out more about what actually happened. When you take into account other questions/evidence being discussed this individual is rarely mentioned as Albert and Patrick know themselves he is heavy duty.
@@TMEYEMLB thank you for taking the time to reply to my question. For a long time the latter was the only name I’d come across on the internet. Credit to your team for all the work you’ve put in and also to Liquid Bullet Productions for their numerous uploads on the topic….a refreshing change from all the nonsense talkers channels👍🏻
@@johnf7801 no doubt! Having been involved on the fringes of crime in the past….I’m under no illusion as to how dangerous and powerful certain individuals can be….more than the public at large would ever truly grasp.
From one of the posts about this subject: Alive after 18.59 hours on 6th December 1995. Two witnesses were interviewed by TM Eye and later filmed for the SKY documentary. Sadly their interview at Rettendon did not feature in the documentary. Their evidence and account is compelling. They saw Tate, Tucker and Rolfe in the Range Rover alive and well after 11pm on the 6th December 1995, at The Rettendon Turnpike, following a ‘road rage’ incident. They made formal witness statements to the CCRC detailing their evidence. The CCRC ‘buried’ that evidence and ignored it. More proof that the victims were alive after 18.59 hours (the time Nicholls claimed they were assasinated). The 11pm Turnpike Sighting Mr Wright made a statement that he saw a metallic blue Range Rover in the vicinity of the Rettendon Turnpike at 23:00-23:45 hours on 6th December 1995. There were two men in the front seats of the vehicle, and one large man seated in the rear. Given that the victims were driving a blue Range Rover on the evening of their disappearance (and their bodies were discovered in the same vehicle), the applicants submit that Mr Wright’s statement constitutes significant new evidence which assists in determining the time of their deaths. Mr Wright’s account undermines the evidence of Darren Nicholls that the murders took place at around 19:00 on 6th December 1995, and provides support for the trial evidence of William Jasper and Steven Rogers, which indicated that the murders may have taken place at around midnight that night. The Commission was provided with Mr Wright’s witness statement on 31st October 2007. Having considered that statement, and the preceding interviews the Commission took witness statements from Mr Wright’s wife, (on 29th January 2008), and from Mr Wright's friend, G Townes (on 26™ March 2008). Mrs Wright describes an occasion in late 1995 when she and her husband were watching the lunchtime news on the television, when a news report stated that the bodies of three men had been discovered in a Range Rover somewhere in Essex. Mrs Wright remembers her husband pointing to the television and saying: “that’s the same Range Rover, that is it, that’s the one that cut us up”. G Townes describes an incident, which he believes to have taken place sometime between 11pm and midnight on the night before he became aware of the Rettendon murders in 1995, when he was the passenger in Mr Wright’s vehicle as it was “cut up” by a larger, 4x4- style, vehicle. There were three men in the 4x4, one of whom was a very large man sitting in the rear of the vehicle.
There have been a series of questions recently about why there were no sightings of the victims post 18.59. In order to give some clarity please read the following. Sighting 1 - Stuart Armstrong gave evidence at trial that Rolfe was in The Carpenters Arms PH after 8pm with another man on the night of the Murders. Armstrong was cross examined and when pressed said he could not be sure if it was the Tuesday or Wednesday. Rolfe was not in that pub on the Tuesday. Sighting 2 - A new witness corroborates the original evidence of Armstrong. (Not in the public domain). Sighting 3 - Three witnesses were involved in a road rage incident with the victims and the Range Rover at about 11.30pm on the night of the 6th December 1995. Essex police were told but never took a statement. Years later they came forward again and the CCRC took new statements. The CCRC then incredibly ignored that evidence. Their evidence is significant and they are adamant it was the victims. They saw them from less than 5 yards away in the Range Rover when they pulled alongside. They have made witness statements and are prepared to give evidence of their sighting. Sighting 4 - There is a recorded sighting by the landlady of The Fortune of War PH after 8pm. Essex police knew but never followed up or took a staments. Sadly she is now deceased. The Action is definitive. Sighting 5/6 - There were also two separate sightings in The Orsett Cock PH on 6th December 1995, the timings are not clear. Again Essex police were aware but never followed up or took statements. Sighting 7 - The Daily Star reporter spoke to a ‘regular’ at The Orsett Cock PH who stated that they were in there after 7pm. That was never followed up. Sighting 8 - There is an Action to trace a Dennis Wise who called the incident room stating he saw them after 7pm. Again never followed up. Sighting 8 - The reporter Jo Ann Goodwin had a witness, details known to her, called Ian who also saw Tate after 7pm. Add to that the evidence of Jasper and the corroborating new witnesses. The telephone data for Pat Tate was deliberately time limited to 18.44 (Version 2), used in court. There is an earlier full version 1 that has never been disclosed. Essex police refuse to disclose it. Tate did receive calls after 18.59. Essex police are telling lies when they state there were no calls to Tate’s phone post 18.59. Tuckers phone would not record calls received and answered. There was 3rd mobile recovered according to the team that examined the phones. This has never been disclosed. Likely Rolfe’s missing mobile. We know from a witness that Rolfe was suing his mobile after 8pm in the car park of The Carpenters Arms PH. Please also remember that Tate likely collected the VW Polo and delivered it as it was used early the following day. Plenty of sightings. Essex police chose not to investigate them. I hope this assists.
A question and please David give me an answer The killer and his choice of weapon he was a professional or at least had no problem doing it Please you're opinion he also had a 9 mm browning pistol this weapon much easier to use would have been far less cumbersome why do u think he chose a shotgun your deep down feelings please
Was Craig's miss's already sleeping with that copper on the drugs squad or what ever before the shooting? and that machine gun was NOTHING TO do with Mick Bowman's too, it was that Donna's gun some one stated? it was from her attic? some one said, but Donna Said it was Mick bowman's, like she was told to say that a?
Thank you for answering my question Albert and Dave . Keep going guys , hopefully the truth will come out .
Keep chipping away you're doing a great job
whats always buged me is if you had killed 3 guys would have left the only witness alive to put you away?
Jasper must of been a trusted gang member to be offered the driving job in the first place . But i get your point.
I believe one of the guys , Marshall , was found murdered in his RR , shot twice in the head with a shotgun .
Jasper was shot after his statement. 3 shots to the head. He survived.
Gayle died in a car accident … was that an accident ?
The family and friends do not believe that it was an accident. It was a strange set of circumstances.
That was a brilliant interview liquid production I think Essex police have got a lot to answer for
This whole situation is pree planed involving essex police believe me
Fantastic podcast as always LBQ , Albert & David are doing a great job with this and also restoring faith in the police by doing so even though they are retired which speaks louder volumes. Talking of loud volumes I first met the" noise" in Germany while on secondment , I can't remember what outfit he was with but do remember falling out with him due to his attitude. I retired from the Royal Marines through injury in 2009. If it helps any, the mouth never received any CQB or breech entry training using a shotgun so I honestly doubt his saying he shot them using a shotgun is b.llox.
Ricky Percival’s case should be looked at aswell!!!!!.
Ricky's case is a true miscarriage of justice.
The corruption is rife within the Essex police.
Nice one Lee David and Albert keep up the great work 👍
Thank you for asking my questions Lee & thank you for the in depth answers Dave and Albert.
Much appreciated and as always, thank you for making these videos gentlemen and I fully back and support your efforts and hope you crack this case!
Brian Richardson ( Rolfe ) on his UA-cam channel only within the last few weeks at the most claims he does want to speak to David & Albert , maybe when David previously approached him he didn't want to get involved. He's certainly changed his mind & definitely would now. Hopefully he see this interview and does speak. As usual another brilliant liquid bullet & TM eye interview.
He’s spoke with them already
Yes The Best So Far, Lots Of Good Information, makes certain things now make more sense.
We spoke to Brian very early on but we do not disclose who we have interviewed or what they say unless the person themselves agrees or comes forward.
80% of what we have been told has never been disclosed to ensure confidentiality.
It has been submitted to the CCRC in a redacted format.
essex police knew they were going too be shot.they became a problem and the police have underwoorld informants
Bye alot off people
Great video. The reason this case continues to remain in the public eye is because of all the questions raised, so many of which should have been dealt with by the police at the time.
Fantastic interview Lee
Great to hear from Dave and Albert
I believe that the officer who answered the phone to the farmer knew what was going to be said it was just like he knew already cheers dave Morris.
It's essex, so this would have been about case #3400 by 8am
Yeh you can tell by his voice he already knew that's exactly what I thought
Nichols statement is absurd and the fact the jury believed it is astonishing and i believe testament to how poor the defence team were. There summing up to the jury of the statement from nichols should have been more than adequate for a not guilty.
A scrap car that was registered to Nichols that they tried and failed to put false plates on but thought sod it well go through with a triple murder regardless.
3 times into the top of the lane and theres no witnesses and no tyre tracks left by the 4 different brands of tyres and no oil from the leaking gearbox.
No dna evidence in the passat.
No dna in the range rover.
No foot prints the size of steeles and whomes going up or down the lane.
His earlier statements when he mentions the Mulloch brothers shows he was obviously being coached.
I could go on and on but its gone 1am and im jiggered.
And leah betts old man just happened to be giving a talk as he was one of the suspects he also conveniently had his guns taken off him a few weeks before. Im sure he didnt do it but it all looks so well orchestrated and polished.
@@lynusssshear hear
Keep up the good work fantastic work 👍
Dave is spot on about the tracker on The Range Rover and that's why they knew before Theobald and Jiggins phoned it in. They left it so a member of the public would find them and call it in leaving them off the hook for lack of surveillance.
Also that's why Dibley had the Range Rover removed from the scene, because he knew and wanted the tracker removed.
The excuse that there wasn't room to do forensics etc is a red herring.
First of all there was enough room for a hit man to open the offside backdoor with a pump action shotgun and shoot them dead with accuracy very quickly.
Secondly any surrounding growth could have been carefully cut back to make room for a full investigation.
Thirdly if you look at the overhead picture you can see there is plenty of room on the offside for investigations to take place as the bushes where Whomes supposedly hid are front of the Range Rover.
These guys are amazing what has been uncovered by them all for Gratis
Who would gun someone down in that manor at that time in the afternoon during rush hour traffic using a car that is worth less then my shirt and who would use dn as a getaway driver he had brains of a rocking horse
The Fiat Uno Turbo however, was quite a formidable car in the 90's
Yea! Totally agree. Would be completely brain dead to do the hit at that time and the way DN Said. Jasper's statement makes way more sense. Where he dropped the hitman out of sight through the fields. A real pro hit.
@@johnjoyce1958 But his claim that the hit took place around midnite doesn't add up because all phone calls to and from Tate Tucker Rolfe phones stop around 7 pm.
@@barrybarnes96 that's all part of the redacted evidence by corrupt Police. There were even calls just before the one to Sarah Saunders by a high profile criminal that were omitted around 6.40pm in the evidence. TMI has proof of that.
I have no doubt that there is evidence in the 160 boxes that were held back from the defence that can prove they were alive after 7pm that night. The problem is the police won't allow anyone to review this evidence. Not even an independent review board.
So what we're left with is they were shot just before 7pm with no sightings of any of what DN says happened, against a Range Rover with no Ice snow on it which scientifically cannot be possible if they were shot that early. They can talk all they like about the canopy preventing frosting but everyone knows that's a ruse. I used to park my car under a canopy in winter and it always frosted hard overnight. So they were shot much later after the dew fall.
I believe the Jasper story is true and Mr. D tried to take Jasper out shortly afterwards but he survived it. That to me speaks volumes.
@@barrybarnes96 NO THEY DIDNT
Steele and Whomes would of had better alibis if they were the real killers
Correct
Great work men ❤
Yes another great video thanks for the upload.
If MS was sworn in on the Bible, then he should have thrown the book back at them.... Deuteronomy 19:15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.
Point being...
It must be very frustrating on the inside of this case . Especially when theres a certain Bum who wants to keep shutting things down . What is he hiding ? Is he more involved than hes let on and why on earth does he want to keep Mick inside for ? Micks served his scentece and an old man now , he is no threat so let him go .
And has dementia
@@D-No974 it's shocking mate . He needs to be released so any time he does have left , is as a free man . FFS how can they still feel he is a threat .
@TheSavagederek Yep, it's a sad tragic outrage imo, a travesty in any language. Fkin pigs n grasses conspiring to annihilate this man mentally physically financially the whole 9, heartbreaking actually, BOM is a disgusting bastard of a man, who imo knows what happened n could well be the shooter, he's a trained killer after all, that's a fact. Another fact being that HE was in the Rettendon locality that night!!!
Couldn't make it up could ya?? Essex police n Nicholls could though!
David thank you for answering my question about Micks release I have to agree with you someone is most definitely worried that Mick will talk and also they have to be high enough up somewhere with the power to be able to block his release and also able to stop both Mick & Jack talking.
The corruption is appalling and goes to the very top.
Every effort is being made to bury the evidence.
The TM eye team are convinced the billy Jasper statement about the murders is correct but why doesn't the question get asked about why the three weren't seen after 7pm no sightings at all nor did they make the dinner booking by Tony who even changed it from 4-6 people that night which the girlfriends were all invited and were waiting? and why no calls were made or excepted on the mobile phones they had on them after 7pm even tho Tony's girlfriend started to leave messages about being ready for the meal but didn't get a reply ???
From an earlier post but deals with a question raised in the comments section if the recent Liquid Bullet Productionz podcast about what TTR were doing between 18.48 and midnight:
“There have been a series of questions recently about why there were no sightings of the victims post 18.59.
In order to give some clarity please read the following.
Sighting 1 - Stuart Armstrong gave evidence at trial that Rolfe was in The Carpenters Arms PH after 8pm with another man on the night of the Murders.
Armstrong was cross examined and when pressed said he could not be sure if it was the Tuesday or Wednesday. Rolfe was not in that pub on the Tuesday.
Sighting 2 - A new witness corroborates the original evidence of Armstrong. (Not in the public domain).
Sighting 3 - Three witnesses were involved in a road rage incident with the victims and the Range Rover at about 11.30pm on the night of the 6th December 1995. Essex police were told but never took a statement. Years later they came forward again and the CCRC took new statements. The CCRC then incredibly ignored that evidence.
Their evidence is significant and they are adamant it was the victims. They saw them from less than 5 yards away in the Range Rover when they pulled alongside.
They have made witness statements and are prepared to give evidence of their sighting.
Sighting 4 - There is a recorded sighting by the landlady of The Fortune of War PH after 8pm. Essex police knew but never followed up or took a staments. Sadly she is now deceased. The Action is definitive.
Sighting 5/6 - There were also two separate sightings in The Orsett Cock PH on 6th December 1995, the timings are not clear. Again Essex police were aware but never followed up or took statements.
Sighting 7 - The Daily Star reporter spoke to a ‘regular’ at The Orsett Cock PH who stated that they were in there after 7pm. That was never followed up.
Sighting 8 - There is an Action to trace a Dennis Wise who called the incident room stating he saw them after 7pm. Again never followed up.
Sighting 8 - The reporter Jo Ann Goodwin had a witness, details known to her, called Ian who also saw Tate after 7pm.
Add to that the evidence of Jasper and the corroborating new witnesses.
The telephone data for Pat Tate was deliberately time limited to 18.44 (Version 2), used in court.
There is an earlier full version 1 that has never been disclosed. Essex police refuse to disclose it.
Tate did receive calls after 18.59. Essex police are telling lies when they state there were no calls to Tate’s phone post 18.59.
Tuckers phone would not record calls received and answered.
There was 3rd mobile recovered according to the team that examined the phones. This has never been disclosed. Likely Rolfe’s missing mobile.
We know from a witness that Rolfe was suing his mobile after 8pm in the car park of The Carpenters Arms PH.
Please also remember that Tate likely collected the VW Polo and delivered it as it was used early the following day.
Plenty of sightings. Essex police chose not to investigate them.
I hope this assists.
Taxi for Bernard
🚕
best make it a van
I " think " this go's higher than the Essex Poo-Lice. Thanks for the advice, " don't forget to put ya gloves on when loading shells ". 👍😉
Another great Q & A well done .Although struggling with the premise that they were murdered after midnight. All phone contact ceases after 19ish . What scenario would have had to play out for 5 hours to make that theory plausible. It just seems far to unrealistic.
Cause they were called after 19:00. The cover up just adjusted the messages. How many other cases have messages released to the public. People did not find out they died untill the following day so so you really believe no one called them after 19:00
I meant all outgoing contact ceased after that time 19ish , as there were numerous voice messages left after that time but none of them were answered. DM is suggesting that it’s less likely they got killed at 19ish due to the owners not hearing the gunshots, but not much else supporting that . Whereas if they didn’t get shot at 19, where were they as no evidence to suggest they were alive at this time . And surely the farmers could have been mistaken with a local gun club in the area .
@@rg5107 There was evidence after 19:00 TMI said in the question and answers the Rolf was seen in the Wheatsheaf pub at 8:15 and also 3 seperate witnesses I identified them in the RR around 23:15 by the Turnpike. They also stated most likely they were all using burner phones. Pat Tate definitely had a burner phone and there is most likely evidence of this in the 115 boxes of more evidence that Essex police will not let TMI see or has been put in the public domain or used at the trial.
@@robertp2577So if they were killed later does it change who dun it ?
@@lynussss It would prove Mick Steel and Jack Whomes did not do it as there cell phone data would show they were not in the area. There cell phone data shows they were in the area 17:30/18:15
The "noisy individual's" biggest mistake was very early on in the case publicly voicing (at the time, valid) scepticism that Steele and Whomes were guilty of the murders, only to completely flip 180 and end up the only known associate still protesting their guilt to this day. The only positive is just what a painful liability he must continue to be for the corrupt Essex police force while they are seemingly powerless to drop him as an informant. Icarus syndrome anyone.
Keep going fellas! The truth will out! ❤
Mobile phone technology was in its infancy at the time. If its proved to be unreliable there must be hundreds of people in prison who would have to be released.
You would think Russell tate would want the truth or is he scared ??
I heard he's still involved in serious crime
He just ain't a talker I think he knows himself anyway
Jasper Mr D is the only scenario that makes sense.
Billy's intricate details are not something he could have made up. And the fact it was so soon after the murders too
Agreed. Jasper's account is so convoluted its gotta be true, he testified at da old Bailey ffs!
Who does that?
Agree as well, why would he bother otherwise to come up with such an elaborate story? Plus he's been a key witness and reliable source in other cases.
@@davehillary8773 exactly 💯
@davehillary8773 Yes, exactly, plus they tried to murder jasper at the first opportunity, 2 bullets to the head, and he survived . Why would they do that to him if it wasn't true
He was scsred for hes life billy jasper because he knew hes life was on the line.he got paid five grand for driving the assasin.
Couple of things to consider:
>Jasper is a compulsive liar
>Daren’s account was corroborated in to many areas to be false
>Whomes put himself in the vicinity at the time
> Steele alibi didn’t show up in court
> Whomes uncle alibi was undermined
>they had a good reason/motive
shut up bernard or adrian,lol,here u are yet again,why are you so worried?If Jasper was lying how the hell did he manage to get to rectory lane??? Your efforts are no better than adrians half-arsed attempts at being a peado hunter,laughable.
Darren was coached for hours by bent coppers .
Thank you.
What evidence do you have that Jasper was a compulsive liar please ?
Daren’s account is NOT corroborated at all. Far from it. Can you point out why you believe that ?
Correct Whomes was in Rettendon at around the time Nicholls (and ONLY Nicholls), claims they were murdered 18.48-18.59, BUT they were not killed then. They were murdered after midnight. Steele, Whomes and even Nicholls were all tucked up at home in bed.
Witnesses did turn up to support Steele’s alibi. The petrol receipt is very important.
The evidence about the Uncle’s door has been explained. Again you are not correct. Misinformation.
What was the motive ? Nicholls lied. The poor cannabis was Nicholls parcel. Again you are not correct.
Anything else ?
@@TMEYEMLB
Thank you for another great video🙏
> Jasper was a prolific burglar, robber, thief. How do you know he was t paid for his story? He was going away anyway at the time.
> Darren’s story corroborated by phone call evidence, Whomes placing himself in Rettendin at the time, calls stopped being taken by the firm sat just before 7pm, families accounts
> Steele key alibi didn’t show up to corroborate his account at trial. Conveniently to stressed to attend.
> Petrol receipt couldn’t be corroborated
>Whomes note to uncle story undermined as an alibi
> Pat and the firm were making serious threats giving a motive for them being done
No threats to Whomes though,
Am I making this up or on the last episode did they mention that a certain person who is vocal about this case (Bernard) is a police informer?
No names were mentioned but if u know u know
Yes they did mention this I just checked. Bernard yes clearly stated to be an informer
Correct.
Blue giro bernie😂
For many years.
White Sierra seen night before and early morning was the drug squad !!!!! They were fully aware what was happening that night! That is why rolph didn't get pulled over the night before when the drug squad was told he had drugs and gun in car they left it. Watch the podcast with his brother Liam tuffs would love to know your thoughts on it
You make a very valid point,however what I believe the police where aware that a big drug deal is going to take place involving the 3 and the police wanted them put away for a long time because of the Leah Betts .What the police didn’t realise it was a double cross and a lure to kill them
I think it’s obvious that they are now 100% sure they know the motive the killer and everyone else connected with this case and I hope there are lots of ex police fearing for their pension now
Whose the "noisy person?" BOM?
👍🏻
Has to be .
As BOM was also potentially a suspect, it’s in his interest to keep MS inside.
@cerealkiller4248 yh yh! Didn't he have a spent 12 gauge cartridge on him??
Hes ex army ffs!😆👍🏻💯
BOM was in Rettendon that night in a hotel. Hmmmmm
Why does Mick have to be locked up to keep his mouth shut? If he is already almost served his sentence and punishment what are they afraid of him talking apart from saying always that he's innocent. This seems like something fishy going on here and corruption is all behind this otherwise let him talk, you can't punish someone with 25 years and at same time forbid them to talk of anything that they wanna say. Gestapo bussiness going on here.
pats brother is still a active criminal. the 128 would of took them past the blundells hse
there house was closer to the A13 mate close to South Ockendon
😉 Back in the day long before the murders planes were dropping all over the place i remember when i was 17 hearing about a drop near a big house close by.
Sorry guys love this.... 1st time watcher however have taken a keen interest in this case over the years! I have spent many of hours on the road as a HGV driver combing over this case via various channels. A real great insight from crimescene2thecourtroom. Who are we talking about when we say the noisy one? Bernard?
Thank you matthew👍🏻👍🏻And yes
@@liquidbulletproductionz understood. Really appreciate the reply and have subscribed
What was the toxicology reports . What drugs were in there system.
why?
Everything!
@@simonbutler2966 coz they could have been purposely overdosed then shot
@@stephencrozier396 why
Autopsy reports on crime scene 2 courtroom channel pat had everything craig needle marks on arm😮
Are the North London lot being totally dismissed.??
Excellent stuff LBP. But please turn off bloody whatsapp notifications! I kept cheking my other tab everytime it went off!
Excellent work (podcast) as always. Gripping!
A Q for David and Albert.
So, I just asked a highly experienced criminal defence lawyer a question, with regard to 120 boxes of evidence in the stores at Essex Police that they refuse to hand over. Why has Steeles defence NOT made an application to a court for the boxes of evidence? A Judge would want to hear a valid excuse from Essex Police as to why they refuse to hand over evidence to the defence. They cannot just say NO!
They made a mistake about the 120 boxes, just isn't the case
Please explain?
@mannixfleming7838 look it up pal
@@D-No974completely wrong.
The emails between senior Essex officer and TM Eye have been published and evidence the existence of the boxes.
All posted on the Facebook site.
@@D-No974 Essex Police are in possession of a vast amount of material that would undoubtedly undermine the convictions of Michael Steele and Jack Whomes.
Former Detective Chief Superintendent Kevin Macey admitted in an email sent on 15th June 2020 that 124 crates of undisclosed material was being held by Essex police.
Nothing like that amount of material has been disclosed to the Defence for the trial, The Court of Appeal or any proceedings since.
The Defence solicitors requested access. It was refused. TM Eye requested supervised access. The response from Detective Superintendent Cronin dated 11th September 2020 is shown below.
Essex police have broken the disclosure rules and effectively the Law. What are they trying to hide ?
The Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC) were made aware of this failure in disclosure but have sided with Essex police.
Disclosure Rules
Essex police had and still have a duty to disclose relevant material. This duty to disclose is a continuous one. Therefore, if at any time before the accused has been acquitted or convicted of the alleged offence, the prosecutor feels there is material which might undermine their case, or assist that of the defendant, that material must be disclosed. Criminal Procedure and Investigations Act 1996 (CPIA 1996) (as amended by the Criminal Justice Act 2003).
Post-conviction disclosure
The interests of justice will mean that where material comes to light after the conclusion of the proceedings that might cast doubt upon the safety of the conviction, there is a duty to consider disclosure. Any such material should be escalated in accordance with local arrangements. The principle was considered and the importance of finality in criminal proceedings was reaffirmed in Nunn v the Chief Constable of Suffolk Constabulary and the Crown Prosecution Service (Interested Party) [2012] EWHC 1186 Admin.
It's saying I'm not subbed wtf? Seen that a few times today on channels I know I was subbed too.
🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️ can’t help u on that one pal
Happens to me to always seems to be a controversial channel that’s saying something that the powers at be would rather be buried 🤷♂️ coincidence I don’t no
Mick Steele must have been more concerned about the drug charges than the murder charge. He'd have assumed the murder charges were thrown in to put pressure on him. If he'd have pleaded guilty to the drugs I believe he wouldn't have been convicted of the murders.
He had a driver from south London and got payed over 100.000 for it
The noisy person was in Rettendon the night of the murders. That's why he was a suspect and was approached the next day by the Police at a London Tube as a suspect.
Not quite correct.
He was called by an Essex detective before 10am. Believed to have been his handler.
It is only his word that he was in Rettendon.
He was never arrested or interviewed for either the death of Leah Betts or the Murders, primarily because he was an informant and witness against Packman.
Peter Defrietus, Nigel Benns manager, denied he knew Tucker when he clearly did. Is this relevent?
Lovely Hubble👌👍🇬🇧
Why was there no DNA taken on the topic wrapper and crisp packet found behind the drivers side foot well ?
Darren & Dean & Two Bent Police Officers. darren was the drug baron, he was the lead role in all this. when they went to stones cafe Darren was the one on the money, the Exchange Rate. Guilders back to Pounds,( English Sterling). Doing all the driving with the drugs in the car, Like he was protecting the drugs from Mick & Jack.
Ive always thought the noisy one was more involved he set them up ?
I do have a question tho, If they were shot whilst in the RR, which does seem the most logical to me.
Why was the front windscreen still intact? I mean according to the autopsy report the shotgun blast to the back of Rolfe’s head was so close it caused flame burn to near the entrance wound and the direction of the shot exiting trajectory surely would off take the screen out? Or damage to the dash. I mean only one window in the whole RR was damaged, plus no other damage can be seen from such close range pump action shotgun action?
Three bodies in a vehicle at the end of the lane opposite a locked gate
Why was they there?
For drugs?if so was any cash or weapons found?
Was they there to look for a landing site for a small aircraft?
Nether of the three we're pilots or had any aviation experience.
Did the killer or killer's know about the shooting club a short distance away?
And apparently the shooting club only shoot on Wednesday, did the killer know this ?
And if so what better cover could you have for a shooting other than a shooting club .
Well mick was a pilot so the idea is he was flying drugs in for another gang got them down the lane to show them we’re he was going to land the plane then they could Rob it with the gun they got of bowman then split the proceeds between them all
The guy with the friendship with Essex police, was he the same one who moved his family into a hotel the day of the murders...funny how no enquiry made on anything thats close to the truth
Paul had a shotgun and when police went to his house to talk to him he said the shotgun went missing a week before the killings and never reported the burglary is that true as the police have never spoke about it ?
1:24:00 '...there is no information that ties Mick Steele to the murders until Nicholls was arrested...' Yes, there was. Donna Jaggers made 3 statements in March. One about general stuff, one about Mick Bowman and one about Mick the pilot (Mick Steele).... Donna made TV appearances and appeals, in the days after. She was talking to the Police from the 7th-8th onwards. They questioned Sarah on the 8th, the Betts' on the 8th and Barry Dorman was arrested on the 8th interviewed on the 9th. They were all talking. I think they've got the wrong Mick. Bowman was meeting them that night to cut the coke, he was there waiting for/with them, John McCarthy was on stand by round the corner to buy the stuff. Have you thought of Bowman and McCarthy that did it?
Great content, keep this coming fella
Would like hear these twos opinions of Brian Rolfe's podcast with Liam tuffs the other night..
We were aware of his evidence. We spoke to Brian a long while ago and he was honest about his involvement.
We agreed to keep it confidential.
He has now come forward and made it public.
We ensure strict confidentiality for everyone who talks to us.
Much of what we know cannot be made public for that very reason.
What is the relationship between Mick Steele and Jack Whomes since the conviction?
Theres only so much protection u get from the police.then the big boys come after u.
Hi guys, when I watched the live of this upload someone asked on the live chat if one of the people involved had a white xr3i convertible, after watching a few other videos I discovered that someone who was close to deceased gang did have a while ford xr3i convertible.😅
Maybe Craig Rolfes brother can shed some light on this
@@lynussssBrian explains it in a forthcoming podcast.
Just about to go bad, this popped up, excellent
Essex police got rid of them and covered it up simple as that
great to see the truth coming out about B O'Grass
Brilliant work 👏 👍
“Jaspers police interview was poor” (34.07)….
You’re not joking….the detectives sounded like they’d never interviewed anyone before! From my own experiences being interviewed it was a bizarre interview to listen to in terms of the police questions and their attitude….
Are these 2 guys not worried? For 1 these are ex police going against other police officers, 2 They could end up getting other criminals convicted over a triple murders what happened over 20years ago, if mick and jack didn't do it the murderer could've died by now.
No one will ever get convicted now. Too much evidence has been lost or covered up by Essex police.
The only motive is to get justice for Steele and Whomes.
It is important that the truth and justice prevail.
Don’t understand the dump site theory . If they were killed elsewhere how was the car moved to the lane with 3 dead bodies in it blood and blown out windows without any one noticing . If the bodies were put in the vehicle afterwards you would need a lot of men to shift them Tate was 20 stone . And if it was on a car recovery vehicle jack whomes had one and was in the area
The wheeling beyond the gate have never been explaine
Glad you didn’t put a advert every few minutes it would of made it so annoying to watch/listen to..
Micky steel appeal been delayed again😢
Disgusting . The system is corrupt to the core , yet they ask us to trust them . Let him go FFS .
Tate, Tucker and Rolf were in there own vehicle, dressed in light casual clothes and unarmed. They clearly weren't intending anything dodgy. Had to be reconnaissance for a plane landing site.
In the dark?😆
I find it more realistic where the local farmer says he heard several shots around midnight,more than,any of the guys on the criminal periphery,apart from Billy jasper.
Why has no one asked the question about BOM and the recording of John Wholmes confessing to how the shootings went down on the night, I don't think that was edited as John seems to say.. He shouldn't have opened his mouth about anything if he knew, and especially NOT to someone who writes books
It was edited by Bum .
It was edited. Likewise he has done the same with other recordings including when he manufactured and manipulated the Jasper recording. He has consistently manipulated and manufactured evidence throughout.
The question is why ?
@@TMEYEMLB The fact he wants to keep an 81 yr old locked up , who has completed his sentence , and wants Jack back inside , is very bizarre . He wasn't friends with Tucker , Tate and Rolfe by the time of the murders and as far as I know , he's not friends with any of their family members , Brian hates him with a passion . Is he scared if they are cleared , that they will implicate him in some way ? He was in the vicinity that night , so was maybe somehow involved . He was ex army so knew firearms . Who knows , but it's weird he wants Mick kept in there .
@@TMEYEMLB if it was edited could U please make a video showing where it is edited as it's John Wholmes voice, the music in the back ground doesn't change the and John basically tells exactly how it goes down on that night of the murders.. if he edited it why hasnt BOM being sued.. Also John has refused a lie detector, I know they aren't 100% but its something and refusing it in my mind makes him look like hes lying saying its edited..
@@markgarrett3077spot on mark…John Whomes knew his brother was talked into it by Steele. I can only think these 2 ex coppers are trying to get publicity for their firm as they seem to have swallowed completely the Jasper and the robbery scenario that was fed to them by Calston.
Who’s the no name making all the noise is it big Bernie ?
Yup .
So latest revelations to me: Jaggers had a machine gun and 94/95 rounds of ammunition; Leah Betts might also be connected? Any more? There must be. Back to listening
Significantly more. But much of it cannot be made public.
Brian Rolfe’s upcoming podcast deals with some of the new material.
@TMEYEMLB In your opinion, who made the calls from the Sorrell Horse Inn?
Hugely significant if you consider the recipients of the calls.
Ive been interested in this turn out since it happened,...we know the old bill do what they want when they can ...we know the wrong guys went jail....unfortunately the person who did it is dead now,...Ellis...police were disgusting.
Albert thank you for answering my question about the 19.05 call from MS landline. I couldn’t find Jackie’s statement published anywhere so thanks for clarifying the portion regarding Bill Walker and MS mum not being home at the start of the call.
Could you comment on the calls from the Sorrel Horse Pub made the afternoon of the murders namely to TT which the prosecution state was to organise the meeting later that night. That payphone then rang the payphone at Timberlogg Lane which would either be for PT or TT who was at the carpet shop round the corner paying his bill at that time.
The most important part is that 20 minutes after those calls it then rang Nicholl’s mobile.
I can find no mention of Nicholl’s ever being questioned by police or in court as to who made that call to him from the Sorrell Horse PH. (I appreciate the locality to JW workplace) but I can’t find that crucial question ever being put to DN.
Was there also ever any discipline charges against the officers who talked the pizza manager out of making a complaint of assault against PT the night before, which would have breached his licence conditions or the officers who stopped CR the afternoon of the murders
and could have arranged for him to be arrested by an officer in uniform for disqualified driving, and seized the RR.
If either of these things had happened then it would have prevented the murders that night.
Will do my best to answer your further questions in our June Q & A interview. Albert
theres no way steeles mother made the 19.05 call from his landline
@@airhammer490her statement clearly explains it
@@albertpatrick422 Thanks for your replies Albert. Another one of you could please answer the following:
In Jaspers first tape recorded interview he states that he didn’t arrive at the scene and drop the gunman off until 1.30/1.45 am. At what stage did this change to “he arrived just after midnight” ?
I appreciate the farmer said that he heard a fuselage of shots at midnight but on Jaspers own admissions he wasn’t there until at least 90 minutes later.
@@garbo5001 Afternoon will have to read Jaspers account again to understand if there was a change in his timing. I have already stated there are a lot more questions i have for Billy Jasper but his current whereabouts are unknown to myself and David. He knows we would like to talk to him. Albert
Bit weird why these people won’t speak.corruption pops up ONCE AGAIN
Hi, next question for the next episode, have you guys got in touch with Pat Tate’s ex partner Sarah or spoke to her son Jordan at all, if so how are they doing in life
Everyone loves a conspiracy and I do think there is more to this than meets the eye, but the problem of zero sightings of collecting/transporting the broken down Passat has always troubled me. TM Eye did a good politicians job of answering without admitting they have nothing but with all the reports of white cars, other RRs yet not 1 report of someone loading a car on what would have been just off the busiest road in Essex at the busiest time outside a pub! . Nor any reports of seeing a passat being towed or on a trailer all the way back to braintree. It would stick out to me more than all the other reports of cars... Thanks to the person who asked that Q
jack and mickey done it 1000% should they have been convicted NO as darren knew why he was their and why he was coming back to get them so he was allowed to lie by the police to convict 2 instead of trying for the 3
@@BILLYRFCNO1 Bollocks .
@NIGHTS.ARE.DARK1 not a chance they did it, you do realise it takes a certain kind of person to plan and kill 3 men in that situation. Mick and Jack and 99% of people are not capable of this kind of violence.
@@EdwardCLinlol a certain type of man🤣ms and jw done it crime in the 90,s often ended in shotgun blasts.all these vids these ex cops are doing is pointless it was all looked at in court years ago and the jury found them guilty not a gang of out of work cops,30 years ago,there dead and its been done and dusted for a long time,pat tate done that to any major firm he wood get splattered,just it was easier work back then,shame nicholls turned grass
@@TheSavagederekyh agreed, absolute cobblers bollocks!👍🏻💯
Has Micky Steele never given any indication as to who or what he thinks happened??? Obviously, you won't divulge the details, I just can't believe he hasn't said something of some significance just between the 2 of you?
The passat must have been hidden up at Rettendon Hall. It wasn't on the Wheatsheaf Car park during the day.
Jasper probably heard the shots and just decided to deny that bit. So as far as he was concerned it was just another dope deal. He was admitting to enough as it was.
If murdered after midnight why no activity from their phones? Were the phones found switched off or out of battery when found?
I cant imagine them as being as slack to leave dabs on the shotgun cartridges?? DNA maybe but not paw prints
Brian Rolf says his brother Craig had a gun on him that night. What happened to Craigs gun??
The killers took it after doing the deed maybe, with the 2 kilo's of coke as well? or 4 kilo's of cocaine
I sicerely apologise for acusingu of talking IAM SO ANGRY ABOUT IT SO ARE THE PUBLIC
Can't believe there's still people that dont think they did it 😂
There's only you Bum and Gobby that think they did 😂
Can I ask you why ?
Darren Nicholls lied. That is a fact. What other evidence do you think there is that puts ‘beyond reasonable doubt’ that Steele or Whomes were involved.
Interested to know ?
@@TheSavagederekbum and gobby 😆
@@EssexTrueCrime yea , can't forget Gobby 😂
@@TheSavagederek if only
The book Once upon a time down a snowy track on Amazon tells the story in a very different and interesting way
Can I ask these guys a couple of questions? In the week leading up to the murders tucker Tate and Rolfe robbed some dealers in London where shots were fired is this true and do they have any info on this as I heard there was shots in there car? Also regarding the workers of the wheatsheaf pub apparently being out front the night of the murders has any been questioned by Dave or Albert as if they see a recovered vehicle ?
They allegedly robbed a ‘safe house’ of a well known Canning town crime group. It was a flat above The Woodgrange pub in Southend. Shots were fired and police did attend after they left.
We have so far been unable to trace staff at The Wheatsheaf but we do have several leads.
@@TMEYEMLB thanks for the response and great work as always guys hopefully Steele will get out but they seem to be trying to avoid that
@@TMEYEMLBPC or DH ?
@@lynussss neither another crime group from CT, closely associated to both PC and DH.
@@TMEYEMLBBowers?
What happened to the pagers they had them days you would ring from phone box
Mr D….
Is this the man referred to in Jaspers statement or is it the man referred to (several times) in the Tiberius report linked to the Peakcock gym and labelled as an “enforcer”? Two different names….both “D”…..is it actually same individual??
Two different people, although closely associated.
'Mr D' a very dangerous individual from Wanstead is the sole reason why Albert and Patrick are being frustrated by Essex Police not allowing them to see more evidence and to keep Michael Steele behind bars, Mr D the reason why Carlton was in fear for his life after the murders and why he and others will not speak out more about what actually happened.
When you take into account other questions/evidence being discussed this individual is rarely mentioned as Albert and Patrick know themselves he is heavy duty.
@@TMEYEMLB thank you for taking the time to reply to my question. For a long time the latter was the only name I’d come across on the internet.
Credit to your team for all the work you’ve put in and also to Liquid Bullet Productions for their numerous uploads on the topic….a refreshing change from all the nonsense talkers channels👍🏻
@@johnf7801 no doubt! Having been involved on the fringes of crime in the past….I’m under no illusion as to how dangerous and powerful certain individuals can be….more than the public at large would ever truly grasp.
@TMEYEMLB are Mr D and Dave Armstrong still active criminals? They must be getting on now? Surely they can't be much danger now at there age?
What were tucker, tate and rolfe doing between 19.00 and 00.00 mr mckelvey and mr patrick if you believe jasper theory ???
From one of the posts about this subject:
Alive after 18.59 hours on 6th December 1995.
Two witnesses were interviewed by TM Eye and later filmed for the SKY documentary.
Sadly their interview at Rettendon did not feature in the documentary.
Their evidence and account is compelling. They saw Tate, Tucker and Rolfe in the Range Rover alive and well after 11pm on the 6th December 1995, at The Rettendon Turnpike, following a ‘road rage’ incident.
They made formal witness statements to the CCRC detailing their evidence.
The CCRC ‘buried’ that evidence and ignored it.
More proof that the victims were alive after 18.59 hours (the time Nicholls claimed they were assasinated).
The 11pm Turnpike Sighting
Mr Wright made a statement that he saw a metallic blue Range Rover in the vicinity of the Rettendon Turnpike at 23:00-23:45 hours on 6th December 1995. There were two men in the front seats of the vehicle, and one large man seated in the rear.
Given that the victims were driving a blue Range Rover on the evening of their disappearance (and their bodies were discovered in the same vehicle), the applicants submit that Mr Wright’s statement constitutes significant new evidence which assists in determining the time of their deaths.
Mr Wright’s account undermines the evidence of Darren Nicholls that the murders took place at around 19:00 on 6th December 1995, and provides support for the trial evidence of William Jasper and Steven Rogers, which indicated that the murders may have taken place at around midnight that night.
The Commission was provided with Mr Wright’s witness statement on 31st October 2007. Having considered that statement, and the preceding interviews the Commission took witness statements from Mr Wright’s wife, (on 29th January 2008), and from Mr Wright's friend, G Townes (on 26™ March 2008).
Mrs Wright describes an occasion in late 1995 when she and her husband were watching the lunchtime news on the television, when a news report stated that the bodies of three men had been discovered in a Range Rover somewhere in Essex. Mrs Wright remembers her husband pointing to the television and saying: “that’s the same Range Rover, that is it, that’s the one that cut us up”.
G Townes describes an incident, which he believes to have taken place sometime between 11pm and midnight on the night before he became aware of the Rettendon murders in 1995, when he was the passenger in Mr Wright’s vehicle as it was “cut up” by a larger, 4x4- style, vehicle. There were three men in the 4x4, one of whom was a very large man sitting in the rear of the vehicle.
There have been a series of questions recently about why there were no sightings of the victims post 18.59.
In order to give some clarity please read the following.
Sighting 1 - Stuart Armstrong gave evidence at trial that Rolfe was in The Carpenters Arms PH after 8pm with another man on the night of the Murders.
Armstrong was cross examined and when pressed said he could not be sure if it was the Tuesday or Wednesday. Rolfe was not in that pub on the Tuesday.
Sighting 2 - A new witness corroborates the original evidence of Armstrong. (Not in the public domain).
Sighting 3 - Three witnesses were involved in a road rage incident with the victims and the Range Rover at about 11.30pm on the night of the 6th December 1995. Essex police were told but never took a statement. Years later they came forward again and the CCRC took new statements. The CCRC then incredibly ignored that evidence.
Their evidence is significant and they are adamant it was the victims. They saw them from less than 5 yards away in the Range Rover when they pulled alongside.
They have made witness statements and are prepared to give evidence of their sighting.
Sighting 4 - There is a recorded sighting by the landlady of The Fortune of War PH after 8pm. Essex police knew but never followed up or took a staments. Sadly she is now deceased. The Action is definitive.
Sighting 5/6 - There were also two separate sightings in The Orsett Cock PH on 6th December 1995, the timings are not clear. Again Essex police were aware but never followed up or took statements.
Sighting 7 - The Daily Star reporter spoke to a ‘regular’ at The Orsett Cock PH who stated that they were in there after 7pm. That was never followed up.
Sighting 8 - There is an Action to trace a Dennis Wise who called the incident room stating he saw them after 7pm. Again never followed up.
Sighting 8 - The reporter Jo Ann Goodwin had a witness, details known to her, called Ian who also saw Tate after 7pm.
Add to that the evidence of Jasper and the corroborating new witnesses.
The telephone data for Pat Tate was deliberately time limited to 18.44 (Version 2), used in court.
There is an earlier full version 1 that has never been disclosed. Essex police refuse to disclose it.
Tate did receive calls after 18.59. Essex police are telling lies when they state there were no calls to Tate’s phone post 18.59.
Tuckers phone would not record calls received and answered.
There was 3rd mobile recovered according to the team that examined the phones. This has never been disclosed. Likely Rolfe’s missing mobile.
We know from a witness that Rolfe was suing his mobile after 8pm in the car park of The Carpenters Arms PH.
Please also remember that Tate likely collected the VW Polo and delivered it as it was used early the following day.
Plenty of sightings. Essex police chose not to investigate them.
I hope this assists.
@@TMEYEMLB very insightful thankyou for the effort in the reply, watching on interested 👍
The man in question was obviously highly trained in firearms
A question and please David give me an answer The killer and his choice of weapon he was a professional or at least had no problem doing it Please you're opinion he also had a 9 mm browning pistol this weapon much easier to use would have been far less cumbersome why do u think he chose a shotgun your deep down feelings please
Was Craig's miss's already sleeping with that copper on the drugs squad or what ever before the shooting? and that machine gun was NOTHING TO do with Mick Bowman's too, it was that Donna's gun some one stated? it was from her attic? some one said, but Donna Said it was Mick bowman's, like she was told to say that a?